let us get back to discussions - Who is the abuser?

[Guest guest]

Who is the abuser and who is the victim?

1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims

2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense

3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika

4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew Suryasiddhanta

5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing to speak of any scientific work done

6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets

7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in modern times

8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the society to exploit it.

Victim is Indian heritage and the truth underlying it. I am not asking anyone to expel anyone. I have reasonably good knowledge of the Indian astronomical tradition and that is known to my friends in the group and my works are published in standard Journals. I have known the subject through well known commentaries and through the works of Prof. KV Sarma, TS Kuppanna Sastri, KS Shukla etc. If anyone appears out of the blue and claims that the well known notions as in Burgess commentary supported by these scholars is all wrong and there is some new twist known only to a sixth sense agency, I am not ready to accept that. I have seen many guys who make such claims and have exposed them to save the poor students. That is the service I can do with this life.

chandra hari

[Guest guest]

" Who is the abuser and who is the victim? "

 

I had decided not to answer posts of Mr Chandra Hari, but this time he

is talking in a better tone. Hence I am replying, with good faith in

his critical and descretionay faculties.

 

1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims.

 

Please discuss and prove me false on any point, instead of abusing

without putting forth reasons.

 

2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense.

 

A good person should not make false allegations. I never claimed it.

 

3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika.

 

Panchasiddhantika is indeed a great work, because it has a historical

value ; it provides a great deal of valuable information. But in its

existing form it is either an incomplete or a wrong work ; please

discuss this point like a scholar ; I do not want to insult or

humiliate you.

 

4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

Suryasiddhanta.

 

Varahamihira either did not possess complete Suryasiddhanta or parts

of Panchasiddhantika have been lost ; in existing form

Panchasiddhantika is useless for actual computations for even 550 AD.

Discuss it, instead of creating a mass hysteria like a politician. I

have earlier stated that Varahamihira was a great scholar in Jyotisha

and was an excellent poet also, but Panchasiddhantika in its existing

form is a poor work. Why running away from discussion? If you know how

to compute planetary positions (which you perhaps know, I guess, I am

not insulting you), prove me wrong by showing actual computations for

any period, and I will apologize and throw away Suryasiddhanta and

will become your student for ever, otherwise you will have to accept

my views, this is the rule of Shaastraartha. Why running away and

inciting your students for beheading me or expelling me ??

 

5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

to speak of any scientific work done.

 

Wrong allegation. Neither I need admirers, nor I claimed to have one

(once Suniljee used this term, which you have caught).

 

My scientific work is on website, why you are misinforming your

students?? If you failed to locate the website, you could have asked

me, instead of abusing and propagating falsehood about me.

 

6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets.

 

Yes, it is written in the text of Suryasiddhanta as well as in other

standard texts like BPHS (Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra) : these

planets are deities, and only rishis can see deities. Another proof is

Suryasiddhantis software, which you want to get banned without being

tested. I am not imposing it on you at gunpoint, you may reject it.

But if you abuse it, you should prove it to be wrong astrologically.

You have faith in astrology, and I promise you will relish this

software after you test it without any bias.

 

7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

modern times.

 

One can experiment with 50 types of ayanamshas & c, why so much hatred

for Suryasiddhanta so as to deny it even a chance of being tested ???

Many universities in India teach Suryasiddhanta, not for historical

reasons but for modern age utility in astrology. Benaras Hindu

University and KSD Sanskrit University (from my software) are

publishing their panchangas on Sursiddhanta for many generations,

scores of private panchangas are also being published on its basis,

and one panchanga by HRD Ministry of Govt of Bihar is being published

on its basis (from my software). Would you hang or ban them all??

 

8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

society to exploit it.

 

It is a abuse, because I am not exploiting anyone, my works are

totally free ; even my published book was without a price.

 

My only fault is that I am not a victim of Lord Macaulay's education

policy which teaches us to believe that only Maxmuller or Reverend

Burgess can be authorities on Vedas and Vedangas(this statement is not

intended to offend any person, it is my philosophy). " Victim is Indian

heritage and the truth underlying it. " Really ! Please calm down and

discuss like a scholar. It is a serious topic which cannot be

discussed in the manner you are doing it. Please calm down!!

 

-VJ

============ =============== ==============

, " chandra_hari18 "

<chandra_hari18 wrote:

>

> Who is the abuser and who is the victim?

>

> 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims

>

> 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense

>

> 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika

>

> 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

> Suryasiddhanta

>

> 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

> to speak of any scientific work done

>

> 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

> Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets

>

> 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in modern

> times

>

> 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the society

> to exploit it.

>

> Victim is Indian heritage and the truth underlying it. I am not asking

> anyone to expel anyone. I have reasonably good knowledge of the Indian

> astronomical tradition and that is known to my friends in the group and

> my works are published in standard Journals. I have known the subject

> through well known commentaries and through the works of Prof. KV Sarma,

> TS Kuppanna Sastri, KS Shukla etc. If anyone appears out of the blue and

> claims that the well known notions as in Burgess commentary supported by

> these scholars is all wrong and there is some new twist known only to a

> sixth sense agency, I am not ready to accept that. I have seen many guys

> who make such claims and have exposed them to save the poor students.

> That is the service I can do with this life.

>

> chandra hari

>

>

>

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > Chiranjiv Mehta Jee,

> >

> > Thanks for putting the abuser and the abused in the same dock. The

> > issue is not of my ego. The problem is that Mr Chandra Hari is

> > intolerant of any " view " which he does not like, and is inciting

> > everyone to expel me without allowing me any chance in a free and fair

> > discussion.

> >

> > I again repeat that the issue is not of ego, but of honesty on the one

> > hand and basic problems of astrology not being allowed to be discussed

> > by Mr Hari, on the other.

> >

> > I never abused, but in spite of my requests to get the discussions

> > started in a cordial environment, I have received fresh abuses even

> > today, coupled with a justification that " frauds selling their

> > products " must be expelled. I support this statement of Mr Hari, but

> > he is inverting this statement in the opposite direction and demands a

> > censorship on views not liked by him.

> >

> > I never sold any product. Why his fraudulent and dishonest statements

> > about me are being allowed by the moderator ?

> >

> > The main issue is of these " views " which he wants to abuse away, but

> > will never be able to choke.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> > , chiranjiv mehta

> > vchiranjiv@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Gnyanis,

> > > The formost tantric has said, that Gnyan is bandhan eventually.

> > > Lord Krishna has said that to look at anything as either of 2

> > opposites , is bad habit.

> > > Then there is a zen story of a buddhist Zen master sworn to

> > celibacy, who nonchalently saved a semiclad bathing beauty , while

> > his disciples looked on. These disciples could not

> > > digest this and one day asked their master polietly - how could you

> > touch / do what you did? The master says - I lifted the girl and put

> > her on the banks of the river, but you are still carrying her !

> > > Do not let your gnyan stoke your ego's. Keep ego aside and

> spread

> > your knowledge or else

> > > it will be of no use and die with you.

> > > Â

> > > Thanks & Regards

> > > Â

> > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 9/1/09, neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote:

> > >

> > > neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > > let us get back to discussions

> > > " "

> >

> > > Friday, 9 January, 2009, 12:27 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > > I am reminded of college ragging days when a new entrant to an

> > academy is cornered by all the so-called seniors. But on the positive

> > side, it led to a good understanding and rapport building with the new

> > comer, who would then repeat the cycle with another one entering the

> > domain.

> > > Let us now stop the blame game, mud-slinging and mocking and behave

> > like good students, which we are. Even though all of us are not

> > competent enough to discuss directly point-by-point, but surely we

> > know enough astrology to separate the grain from the chaff, or as

> > Bhaskar ji says parasmani from paththar.

> > > Let us allow a fair chance to Vinay Jha ji to present his theory and

> > rest his case. Then we can subject him to open house and counter

> > questions. And all of us should remember the rules of the game. There

> > is no guru, all are learners and not bound to accept something which

> > we do not agree with.

> > > I would request Chandra Hari ji not to be volatile and refrain

> > himself from using abusive language even when he does not agree. What

> > we think is wrong, may be just another point of view, and we are

> > always free to disregard it and discard it.

> > > Regarding the software or hardware Vinay ji, we all work hard and

> > make a product to gain something from it. If you are not looking for

> > money and giving it as freeware, you are looking for name and fame! If

> > you deny even that, you are looking forward to promote what you think

> > is right among such groups of astrologers as this.

> > >

> > > If the purpose is purely to promote some secret gyan, then the real

> > guru will surely wait for or call supatras by telling them what you

> > want to impart, understand their level of comprehension of the

> > subject, prepare them for what they will be taught and then teach

> > those secrets. Do you think in this age of frauds and tricksters,

> > specially the internet types, anyone would take you so seriously, even

> > if you were an avatar of Parashara.

> > > I can understand the pain, if Vinay ji is a true scholar and a

> > believer in his works. But everyone is free to express views in a

> > democratic forum. Road to truth is not easy!

> > > Let us restart with a hope to see the truth.

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

> > http://messenger./invite/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayji,Excuse me for butting in while two big astrologers are working on some contentiousissues issues. I have one doubt and it is probably relevant to the discussions and hope both you and Chandrahariji will enlighten us on this.Varahamihira told as to where the solstices and equinoxes were taking place (both directly and indirectly) and he also said that in the past these events were taking place in different positions in the Zodiac. It means that he was telling us about the role of precession of the earth and the corrections that will be needed in future. Now, as to these corrections the best method is by actual observations of the stars regularly to check the calculations, which can be either accurate or approximate. A direct visual confirmation was considered a must. Siddhanta Siromani and even Siddhanta Darpana

,to my knowledge , advocate direct observations and the past great Jyotishis (astronomers / astrologers) depended on different instruments. Jodhpur observatory of Jaisingh is an example. Original Aryasiddhanta must also have advocated the need for the field observations. Today's arm-chair-Jyotishis have lost that habit of direct observation. Direct onservation would not have lost its importance even if the scret formulae (Beeja formulae) of Suryasiddhanta were available in the open and intelligible to the Present Jyotishis. Why then have so much controversies abour the secret fomulae and not go back to the observatories. In 3077 BCE the fact that the Saptarshis moved from Magha to Ashlesha was directly observed by the Kashmiri Jyotishis from the Hari Parvat. It is for this reason Varahamihira did not give the formulae as he did not want to produce arm-chair-Jyotishis in future.Kindly tell me if I am wrong.Regards,Sunil Kumar

Bhattacharjya--- On Fri, 1/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: let us get back to discussions - Who is the abuser? Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 10:03 AM

 

"Who is the abuser and who is the victim?"

 

I had decided not to answer posts of Mr Chandra Hari, but this time he

is talking in a better tone. Hence I am replying, with good faith in

his critical and descretionay faculties.

 

1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims.

 

Please discuss and prove me false on any point, instead of abusing

without putting forth reasons.

 

2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense.

 

A good person should not make false allegations. I never claimed it.

 

3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika.

 

Panchasiddhantika is indeed a great work, because it has a historical

value ; it provides a great deal of valuable information. But in its

existing form it is either an incomplete or a wrong work ; please

discuss this point like a scholar ; I do not want to insult or

humiliate you.

 

4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

Suryasiddhanta.

 

Varahamihira either did not possess complete Suryasiddhanta or parts

of Panchasiddhantika have been lost ; in existing form

Panchasiddhantika is useless for actual computations for even 550 AD.

Discuss it, instead of creating a mass hysteria like a politician. I

have earlier stated that Varahamihira was a great scholar in Jyotisha

and was an excellent poet also, but Panchasiddhantika in its existing

form is a poor work. Why running away from discussion? If you know how

to compute planetary positions (which you perhaps know, I guess, I am

not insulting you), prove me wrong by showing actual computations for

any period, and I will apologize and throw away Suryasiddhanta and

will become your student for ever, otherwise you will have to accept

my views, this is the rule of Shaastraartha. Why running away and

inciting your students for beheading me or expelling me ??

 

5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

to speak of any scientific work done.

 

Wrong allegation. Neither I need admirers, nor I claimed to have one

(once Suniljee used this term, which you have caught).

 

My scientific work is on website, why you are misinforming your

students?? If you failed to locate the website, you could have asked

me, instead of abusing and propagating falsehood about me.

 

6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets.

 

Yes, it is written in the text of Suryasiddhanta as well as in other

standard texts like BPHS (Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra) : these

planets are deities, and only rishis can see deities. Another proof is

Suryasiddhantis software, which you want to get banned without being

tested. I am not imposing it on you at gunpoint, you may reject it.

But if you abuse it, you should prove it to be wrong astrologically.

You have faith in astrology, and I promise you will relish this

software after you test it without any bias.

 

7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

modern times.

 

One can experiment with 50 types of ayanamshas & c, why so much hatred

for Suryasiddhanta so as to deny it even a chance of being tested ???

Many universities in India teach Suryasiddhanta, not for historical

reasons but for modern age utility in astrology. Benaras Hindu

University and KSD Sanskrit University (from my software) are

publishing their panchangas on Sursiddhanta for many generations,

scores of private panchangas are also being published on its basis,

and one panchanga by HRD Ministry of Govt of Bihar is being published

on its basis (from my software). Would you hang or ban them all??

 

8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

society to exploit it.

 

It is a abuse, because I am not exploiting anyone, my works are

totally free ; even my published book was without a price.

 

My only fault is that I am not a victim of Lord Macaulay's education

policy which teaches us to believe that only Maxmuller or Reverend

Burgess can be authorities on Vedas and Vedangas(this statement is not

intended to offend any person, it is my philosophy). "Victim is Indian

heritage and the truth underlying it." Really ! Please calm down and

discuss like a scholar. It is a serious topic which cannot be

discussed in the manner you are doing it. Please calm down!!

 

-VJ

============ ============ === ============ ==

ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18"

<chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:

>

> Who is the abuser and who is the victim?

>

> 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims

>

> 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense

>

> 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika

>

> 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

> Suryasiddhanta

>

> 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

> to speak of any scientific work done

>

> 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

> Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets

>

> 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in modern

> times

>

> 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the society

> to exploit it.

>

> Victim is Indian heritage and the truth underlying it. I am not asking

> anyone to expel anyone. I have reasonably good knowledge of the Indian

> astronomical tradition and that is known to my friends in the group and

> my works are published in standard Journals. I have known the subject

> through well known commentaries and through the works of Prof. KV Sarma,

> TS Kuppanna Sastri, KS Shukla etc. If anyone appears out of the blue and

> claims that the well known notions as in Burgess commentary supported by

> these scholars is all wrong and there is some new twist known only to a

> sixth sense agency, I am not ready to accept that. I have seen many guys

> who make such claims and have exposed them to save the poor students.

> That is the service I can do with this life.

>

> chandra hari

>

>

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, "vinayjhaa16"

> <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> >

> > Chiranjiv Mehta Jee,

> >

> > Thanks for putting the abuser and the abused in the same dock. The

> > issue is not of my ego. The problem is that Mr Chandra Hari is

> > intolerant of any "view" which he does not like, and is inciting

> > everyone to expel me without allowing me any chance in a free and fair

> > discussion.

> >

> > I again repeat that the issue is not of ego, but of honesty on the one

> > hand and basic problems of astrology not being allowed to be discussed

> > by Mr Hari, on the other.

> >

> > I never abused, but in spite of my requests to get the discussions

> > started in a cordial environment, I have received fresh abuses even

> > today, coupled with a justification that "frauds selling their

> > products" must be expelled. I support this statement of Mr Hari, but

> > he is inverting this statement in the opposite direction and demands a

> > censorship on views not liked by him.

> >

> > I never sold any product. Why his fraudulent and dishonest statements

> > about me are being allowed by the moderator ?

> >

> > The main issue is of these "views" which he wants to abuse away, but

> > will never be able to choke.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, chiranjiv mehta

> > vchiranjiv@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Gnyanis,

> > > The formost tantric has said, that Gnyan is bandhan eventually.

> > > Lord Krishna has said that to look at anything as either of 2

> > opposites , is bad habit.

> > > Then there is a zen story of a buddhist Zen master sworn to

> > celibacy, who nonchalently saved a semiclad bathing beauty , while

> > his disciples looked on. These disciples could not

> > > digest this and one day asked their master polietly - how could you

> > touch / do what you did? The master says - I lifted the girl and put

> > her on the banks of the river, but you are still carrying her !

> > > Do not let your gnyan stoke your ego's. Keep ego aside and

> spread

> > your knowledge or else

> > > it will be of no use and die with you.

> > > Â

> > > Thanks & Regards

> > > Â

> > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 9/1/09, neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote:

> > >

> > > neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] let us get back to discussions

> > > "ancient_indian_ astrology"

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Friday, 9 January, 2009, 12:27 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > > I am reminded of college ragging days when a new entrant to an

> > academy is cornered by all the so-called seniors. But on the positive

> > side, it led to a good understanding and rapport building with the new

> > comer, who would then repeat the cycle with another one entering the

> > domain.

> > > Let us now stop the blame game, mud-slinging and mocking and behave

> > like good students, which we are. Even though all of us are not

> > competent enough to discuss directly point-by-point, but surely we

> > know enough astrology to separate the grain from the chaff, or as

> > Bhaskar ji says parasmani from paththar.

> > > Let us allow a fair chance to Vinay Jha ji to present his theory and

> > rest his case. Then we can subject him to open house and counter

> > questions. And all of us should remember the rules of the game. There

> > is no guru, all are learners and not bound to accept something which

> > we do not agree with.

> > > I would request Chandra Hari ji not to be volatile and refrain

> > himself from using abusive language even when he does not agree. What

> > we think is wrong, may be just another point of view, and we are

> > always free to disregard it and discard it.

> > > Regarding the software or hardware Vinay ji, we all work hard and

> > make a product to gain something from it. If you are not looking for

> > money and giving it as freeware, you are looking for name and fame! If

> > you deny even that, you are looking forward to promote what you think

> > is right among such groups of astrologers as this.

> > >

> > > If the purpose is purely to promote some secret gyan, then the real

> > guru will surely wait for or call supatras by telling them what you

> > want to impart, understand their level of comprehension of the

> > subject, prepare them for what they will be taught and then teach

> > those secrets. Do you think in this age of frauds and tricksters,

> > specially the internet types, anyone would take you so seriously, even

> > if you were an avatar of Parashara.

> > > I can understand the pain, if Vinay ji is a true scholar and a

> > believer in his works. But everyone is free to express views in a

> > democratic forum. Road to truth is not easy!

> > > Let us restart with a hope to see the truth.

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

> > http://messenger. / invite/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I suspect Varaha Mihira knew more than his extant works show. But in

the absence of all his works, I can definitely say that his

mathematical treatises, in existing forms, are useless for computing

planetary positions even for his own age. I will produce actual

computations according to his text for 550 AD shortly.

 

My most important question is being neglected. I repeat it :

 

Please show the DEFINITION of ayanamsha according to most revered

texts of ancient India, esp Suryasiddhanta which Varaha Mihira said to

be most clear of all great siddhantas.

 

Please try to define ayanamsha according to its original definition,

not relying upon false commentaries of Burgess & c. Ayanamsha is quite

different a phenomenon than precession.

 

If any sincere and impartial effort will be made to find out the

original meaning of ayanamsha, you will find that Sayana has nothing

to do with Tripical. It is a mere coincidence that annual rate of

change of ayanamsha (54 " ) is only marginally different from the annual

rate of precession (~50.3 " ). Unless and until you consult the original

text, you may guess that I am propounding some new theory, which is

not the case.

 

Unless and until the original definition of ayanamsha is correctly

understood, it is futile to discuss ayanamsha at all. It is not a

modern Western concept. If anciet authors were idiots and their

definition of ayanamsha must not be correctly interpreted, their

Jyotish should be forgotten as well.

 

As long as people are not interested in original sources and rely upon

wrong translations, I do not want to say anything further. The final

authority on Suryasiddhanta is Suryasiddhanta itself and not Burgess

or you or me.

 

-VJ

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> Excuse me for butting in while two big astrologers are working on

some contentiousissues issues. I have one doubt and it is probably

relevant to the discussions and hope both you and Chandrahariji will

enlighten us on this.

>

> Varahamihira told as to where the solstices and equinoxes were

taking place  (both directly and indirectly) and he also said that in

the past these events were taking place in different positions in the

Zodiac. It means that he was telling us about the role of precession

of the earth and the corrections that will be needed in future.

>

> Now, as to these corrections the best method is by actual

observations of the stars regularly  to check the calculations, which

can be either accurate or approximate. A direct visual confirmation

was considered a must. Siddhanta Siromani and even Siddhanta Darpana

,to my knowledge , advocate direct observations and the past great

Jyotishis (astronomers / astrologers) depended on different

instruments. Jodhpur observatory of Jaisingh is an example. Original

Aryasiddhanta must also have advocated the need for the field

observations. Today's arm-chair-Jyotishis have lost that habit of

direct observation. Direct onservation would not have lost its

importance even if the scret formulae (Beeja formulae) of

Suryasiddhanta were available in the open and intelligible to the

Present Jyotishis. Why then have so much controversies abour the

secret fomulae and not go back to the observatories. In 3077 BCE the

fact that the Saptarshis moved from Magha to Ashlesha was

> directly observed by the Kashmiri Jyotishis from the Hari Parvat.

It is for this reason Varahamihira did not give the formulae as he did

not want to produce arm-chair-Jyotishis in future.

>

> Kindly tell me if I am wrong.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil Kumar Bhattacharjya

>

>

>

> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Friday, January 9, 2009, 10:03 AM

>

>

>

>

>

" Who is the abuser and who is the victim? "

>

>

>

> I had decided not to answer posts of Mr Chandra Hari, but this time he

>

> is talking in a better tone. Hence I am replying, with good faith in

>

> his critical and descretionay faculties.

>

>

>

> 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims.

>

>

>

> Please discuss and prove me false on any point, instead of abusing

>

> without putting forth reasons.

>

>

>

> 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense.

>

>

>

> A good person should not make false allegations. I never claimed it.

>

>

>

> 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika.

>

>

>

> Panchasiddhantika is indeed a great work, because it has a historical

>

> value ; it provides a great deal of valuable information. But in its

>

> existing form it is either an incomplete or a wrong work ; please

>

> discuss this point like a scholar ; I do not want to insult or

>

> humiliate you.

>

>

>

> 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

>

> Suryasiddhanta.

>

>

>

> Varahamihira either did not possess complete Suryasiddhanta or parts

>

> of Panchasiddhantika have been lost ; in existing form

>

> Panchasiddhantika is useless for actual computations for even 550 AD.

>

> Discuss it, instead of creating a mass hysteria like a politician. I

>

> have earlier stated that Varahamihira was a great scholar in Jyotisha

>

> and was an excellent poet also, but Panchasiddhantika in its existing

>

> form is a poor work. Why running away from discussion? If you know how

>

> to compute planetary positions (which you perhaps know, I guess, I am

>

> not insulting you), prove me wrong by showing actual computations for

>

> any period, and I will apologize and throw away Suryasiddhanta and

>

> will become your student for ever, otherwise you will have to accept

>

> my views, this is the rule of Shaastraartha. Why running away and

>

> inciting your students for beheading me or expelling me ??

>

>

>

> 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

>

> to speak of any scientific work done.

>

>

>

> Wrong allegation. Neither I need admirers, nor I claimed to have one

>

> (once Suniljee used this term, which you have caught).

>

>

>

> My scientific work is on website, why you are misinforming your

>

> students?? If you failed to locate the website, you could have asked

>

> me, instead of abusing and propagating falsehood about me.

>

>

>

> 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

>

> Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets.

>

>

>

> Yes, it is written in the text of Suryasiddhanta as well as in other

>

> standard texts like BPHS (Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra) : these

>

> planets are deities, and only rishis can see deities. Another proof is

>

> Suryasiddhantis software, which you want to get banned without being

>

> tested. I am not imposing it on you at gunpoint, you may reject it.

>

> But if you abuse it, you should prove it to be wrong astrologically.

>

> You have faith in astrology, and I promise you will relish this

>

> software after you test it without any bias.

>

>

>

> 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

>

> modern times.

>

>

>

> One can experiment with 50 types of ayanamshas & c, why so much hatred

>

> for Suryasiddhanta so as to deny it even a chance of being tested ???

>

> Many universities in India teach Suryasiddhanta, not for historical

>

> reasons but for modern age utility in astrology. Benaras Hindu

>

> University and KSD Sanskrit University (from my software) are

>

> publishing their panchangas on Sursiddhanta for many generations,

>

> scores of private panchangas are also being published on its basis,

>

> and one panchanga by HRD Ministry of Govt of Bihar is being published

>

> on its basis (from my software). Would you hang or ban them all??

>

>

>

> 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

>

> society to exploit it.

>

>

>

> It is a abuse, because I am not exploiting anyone, my works are

>

> totally free ; even my published book was without a price.

>

>

>

> My only fault is that I am not a victim of Lord Macaulay's education

>

> policy which teaches us to believe that only Maxmuller or Reverend

>

> Burgess can be authorities on Vedas and Vedangas(this statement is not

>

> intended to offend any person, it is my philosophy). " Victim is Indian

>

> heritage and the truth underlying it. " Really ! Please calm down and

>

> discuss like a scholar. It is a serious topic which cannot be

>

> discussed in the manner you are doing it. Please calm down!!

>

>

>

> -VJ

>

> ============ ============ === ============ ==

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, " chandra_hari18 "

>

> <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Who is the abuser and who is the victim?

>

> >

>

> > 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims

>

> >

>

> > 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense

>

> >

>

> > 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika

>

> >

>

> > 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

>

> > Suryasiddhanta

>

> >

>

> > 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

>

> > to speak of any scientific work done

>

> >

>

> > 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

>

> > Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets

>

> >

>

> > 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

modern

>

> > times

>

> >

>

> > 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

society

>

> > to exploit it.

>

> >

>

> > Victim is Indian heritage and the truth underlying it. I am not asking

>

> > anyone to expel anyone. I have reasonably good knowledge of the Indian

>

> > astronomical tradition and that is known to my friends in the

group and

>

> > my works are published in standard Journals. I have known the subject

>

> > through well known commentaries and through the works of Prof. KV

Sarma,

>

> > TS Kuppanna Sastri, KS Shukla etc. If anyone appears out of the

blue and

>

> > claims that the well known notions as in Burgess commentary

supported by

>

> > these scholars is all wrong and there is some new twist known only

to a

>

> > sixth sense agency, I am not ready to accept that. I have seen

many guys

>

> > who make such claims and have exposed them to save the poor students.

>

> > That is the service I can do with this life.

>

> >

>

> > chandra hari

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " vinayjhaa16 "

>

> > <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > > Chiranjiv Mehta Jee,

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks for putting the abuser and the abused in the same dock. The

>

> > > issue is not of my ego. The problem is that Mr Chandra Hari is

>

> > > intolerant of any " view " which he does not like, and is inciting

>

> > > everyone to expel me without allowing me any chance in a free

and fair

>

> > > discussion.

>

> > >

>

> > > I again repeat that the issue is not of ego, but of honesty on

the one

>

> > > hand and basic problems of astrology not being allowed to be

discussed

>

> > > by Mr Hari, on the other.

>

> > >

>

> > > I never abused, but in spite of my requests to get the discussions

>

> > > started in a cordial environment, I have received fresh abuses even

>

> > > today, coupled with a justification that " frauds selling their

>

> > > products " must be expelled. I support this statement of Mr Hari, but

>

> > > he is inverting this statement in the opposite direction and

demands a

>

> > > censorship on views not liked by him.

>

> > >

>

> > > I never sold any product. Why his fraudulent and dishonest

statements

>

> > > about me are being allowed by the moderator ?

>

> > >

>

> > > The main issue is of these " views " which he wants to abuse away, but

>

> > > will never be able to choke.

>

> > >

>

> > > -VJ

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, chiranjiv mehta

>

> > > vchiranjiv@ wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear Gnyanis,

>

> > > > The formost tantric has said, that Gnyan is bandhan eventually.

>

> > > > Lord Krishna has said that to look at anything as either of 2

>

> > > opposites , is bad habit.

>

> > > > Then there is a zen story of a buddhist Zen master sworn to

>

> > > celibacy, who nonchalently saved a semiclad bathing beauty , while

>

> > > his disciples looked on. These disciples could not

>

> > > > digest this and one day asked their master polietly - how

could you

>

> > > touch / do what you did? The master says - I lifted the girl and put

>

> > > her on the banks of the river, but you are still carrying her !

>

> > > > Do not let your gnyan stoke your ego's. Keep ego aside and

>

> > spread

>

> > > your knowledge or else

>

> > > > it will be of no use and die with you.

>

> > > > Â

>

> > > > Thanks & Regards

>

> > > > Â

>

> > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

>

> > > >

>

> > > > --- On Fri, 9/1/09, neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote:

>

> > > >

>

> > > > neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

>

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] let us get back to

discussions

>

> > > > " ancient_indian_ astrology "

>

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

>

> > > > Friday, 9 January, 2009, 12:27 PM

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Dear All,

>

> > > > I am reminded of college ragging days when a new entrant to an

>

> > > academy is cornered by all the so-called seniors. But on the

positive

>

> > > side, it led to a good understanding and rapport building with

the new

>

> > > comer, who would then repeat the cycle with another one entering the

>

> > > domain.

>

> > > > Let us now stop the blame game, mud-slinging and mocking and

behave

>

> > > like good students, which we are. Even though all of us are not

>

> > > competent enough to discuss directly point-by-point, but surely we

>

> > > know enough astrology to separate the grain from the chaff, or as

>

> > > Bhaskar ji says parasmani from paththar.

>

> > > > Let us allow a fair chance to Vinay Jha ji to present his

theory and

>

> > > rest his case. Then we can subject him to open house and counter

>

> > > questions. And all of us should remember the rules of the game.

There

>

> > > is no guru, all are learners and not bound to accept something which

>

> > > we do not agree with.

>

> > > > I would request Chandra Hari ji not to be volatile and refrain

>

> > > himself from using abusive language even when he does not agree.

What

>

> > > we think is wrong, may be just another point of view, and we are

>

> > > always free to disregard it and discard it.

>

> > > > Regarding the software or hardware Vinay ji, we all work hard and

>

> > > make a product to gain something from it. If you are not looking for

>

> > > money and giving it as freeware, you are looking for name and

fame! If

>

> > > you deny even that, you are looking forward to promote what you

think

>

> > > is right among such groups of astrologers as this.

>

> > > >

>

> > > > If the purpose is purely to promote some secret gyan, then the

real

>

> > > guru will surely wait for or call supatras by telling them what you

>

> > > want to impart, understand their level of comprehension of the

>

> > > subject, prepare them for what they will be taught and then teach

>

> > > those secrets. Do you think in this age of frauds and tricksters,

>

> > > specially the internet types, anyone would take you so

seriously, even

>

> > > if you were an avatar of Parashara.

>

> > > > I can understand the pain, if Vinay ji is a true scholar and a

>

> > > believer in his works. But everyone is free to express views in a

>

> > > democratic forum. Road to truth is not easy!

>

> > > > Let us restart with a hope to see the truth.

>

> > > > Regards

>

> > > > Neelam

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > >

>

> > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

>

> > > http://messenger. / invite/

>

> > > >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayji,Uttarayana is northward movemant of the Sun, Sayana (Sa + ayana)is with movement, Nirayana (Nih + ayana) is without taking account of movement (as there is no need for it) and Ayanamsha is extent of the precessional movement.But you have avoided the main purpose of the mail. Please read it again. It was related to need of the Beeja formulae. You have ignored the point and diverted the topic of the mail to Ayanamsha. We can have more discussion on the definition of Ayanamsha separately if you so desire but for now please respond to my mail. When you observe the skiy directly where is the need for the Ayanamsha correction? Of course you realise that what is not available in Varahamihira was deliberately not given by him for a very justifiable reason.Regards,SKB

[Guest guest]

Sunil jee,

 

You are misled by the two centuries of propaganda by Western authors,

esp by Colebrooke, Burgess and their followers who are in a majority.

You are wrong to imagine the " ayanamsha is extent of the precessional

movement " . This is completely against ancient definition of this term,

and is a modern myth. I asked everyone here to consult the original

text, but no one is listening to me. The problem is no one has time to

consult original texts, and one member has today said that those

ancient things " have no bearing to the pesent day applications " . I

again repeat that ayanamsha is not a Western concept, it is an Indian

concept, and it is wrong to refuse to discuss the original meaning,

which I am unwilling to disclose because the member who says I am

wasting time with useless talks about ancient things had also said

that I have no right to become a " teacher " . If you are really

interested in knowing the original meaning of ayanamsha , I may give

you it through personal email with proper citations from ancient

texts. I do not want to " teach " anything to anyone here who charges me

of being against traditions and at the same declare those very

traditions as being irrelevant(that person is not you).

 

Same is the case with beeja. Varaha Mihira said beeja was a mystery.

Ancient authors did not hide it, they presented it in a cryptic

language which I know because I am the mathematician of eight

panchangas made from siddhantic methods, but I will receive further

insults at this forum attempting to " teach " anachronistic ancient

things. In my youth I was also misled by false propaganda about

ancient texts, and it took me quarter of century to discover the

greatness of siddhantic methods and their relevance today, which a

handful of members here want to censor.

 

-VJ

========== ========== ========== ==========

 

But you have avoided the main purpose of the mail. Please read it

again. It was related to need of the Beeja formulae. You have ignored

the point and diverted the topic of the mail to Ayanamsha.

 

-VJ

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> Uttarayana is northward movemant of the Sun, Sayana (Sa + ayana)is

with movement, Nirayana (Nih + ayana) is without taking account of

movement (as there is no need for it) and Ayanamsha is extent of the

precessional movement.

>

> But you have avoided the main purpose of the mail. Please read it

again. It was related to need of the Beeja formulae. You have ignored

the point and diverted the topic of the mail to Ayanamsha. We can have

more discussion on the definition of Ayanamsha separately if you so

desire but for now please respond to my mail.  When you observe the

skiy directly where is the need for the Ayanamsha correction? Of

course you realise that what is not available in Varahamihira was

deliberately not given by him for a very justifiable reason.

>

> Regards,

>

> SKB

>

> --- On Sat, 1/10/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Saturday, January 10, 2009, 5:02 AM

>

>

>

>

>

I suspect Varaha Mihira knew more than his extant works

show. But in

>

> the absence of all his works, I can definitely say that his

>

> mathematical treatises, in existing forms, are useless for computing

>

> planetary positions even for his own age. I will produce actual

>

> computations according to his text for 550 AD shortly.

>

>

>

> My most important question is being neglected. I repeat it :

>

>

>

> Please show the DEFINITION of ayanamsha according to most revered

>

> texts of ancient India, esp Suryasiddhanta which Varaha Mihira said to

>

> be most clear of all great siddhantas.

>

>

>

> Please try to define ayanamsha according to its original definition,

>

> not relying upon false commentaries of Burgess & c. Ayanamsha is quite

>

> different a phenomenon than precession.

>

>

>

> If any sincere and impartial effort will be made to find out the

>

> original meaning of ayanamsha, you will find that Sayana has nothing

>

> to do with Tripical. It is a mere coincidence that annual rate of

>

> change of ayanamsha (54 " ) is only marginally different from the annual

>

> rate of precession (~50.3 " ). Unless and until you consult the original

>

> text, you may guess that I am propounding some new theory, which is

>

> not the case.

>

>

>

> Unless and until the original definition of ayanamsha is correctly

>

> understood, it is futile to discuss ayanamsha at all. It is not a

>

> modern Western concept. If anciet authors were idiots and their

>

> definition of ayanamsha must not be correctly interpreted, their

>

> Jyotish should be forgotten as well.

>

>

>

> As long as people are not interested in original sources and rely upon

>

> wrong translations, I do not want to say anything further. The final

>

> authority on Suryasiddhanta is Suryasiddhanta itself and not Burgess

>

> or you or me.

>

>

>

> -VJ

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

>

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Vinayji,

>

> >

>

> > Excuse me for butting in while two big astrologers are working on

>

> some contentiousissues issues. I have one doubt and it is probably

>

> relevant to the discussions and hope both you and Chandrahariji will

>

> enlighten us on this.

>

> >

>

> > Varahamihira told as to where the solstices and equinoxes were

>

> taking place  (both directly and indirectly) and he also said that in

>

> the past these events were taking place in different positions in the

>

> Zodiac. It means that he was telling us about the role of precession

>

> of the earth and the corrections that will be needed in future.

>

> >

>

> > Now, as to these corrections the best method is by actual

>

> observations of the stars regularly  to check the calculations, which

>

> can be either accurate or approximate. A direct visual confirmation

>

> was considered a must. Siddhanta Siromani and even Siddhanta Darpana

>

> ,to my knowledge , advocate direct observations and the past great

>

> Jyotishis (astronomers / astrologers) depended on different

>

> instruments. Jodhpur observatory of Jaisingh is an example. Original

>

> Aryasiddhanta must also have advocated the need for the field

>

> observations. Today's arm-chair-Jyotishis have lost that habit of

>

> direct observation. Direct onservation would not have lost its

>

> importance even if the scret formulae (Beeja formulae) of

>

> Suryasiddhanta were available in the open and intelligible to the

>

> Present Jyotishis. Why then have so much controversies abour the

>

> secret fomulae and not go back to the observatories. In 3077 BCE the

>

> fact that the Saptarshis moved from Magha to Ashlesha was

>

> > directly observed by the Kashmiri Jyotishis from the Hari Parvat.

>

> It is for this reason Varahamihira did not give the formulae as he did

>

> not want to produce arm-chair-Jyotishis in future.

>

> >

>

> > Kindly tell me if I am wrong.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > Sunil Kumar Bhattacharjya

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --- On Fri, 1/9/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: let us get back to

>

> discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

>

> > Friday, January 9, 2009, 10:03 AM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > " Who is the abuser and who is the victim? "

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I had decided not to answer posts of Mr Chandra Hari, but this time he

>

> >

>

> > is talking in a better tone. Hence I am replying, with good faith in

>

> >

>

> > his critical and descretionay faculties.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Please discuss and prove me false on any point, instead of abusing

>

> >

>

> > without putting forth reasons.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > A good person should not make false allegations. I never claimed it.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Panchasiddhantika is indeed a great work, because it has a historical

>

> >

>

> > value ; it provides a great deal of valuable information. But in its

>

> >

>

> > existing form it is either an incomplete or a wrong work ; please

>

> >

>

> > discuss this point like a scholar ; I do not want to insult or

>

> >

>

> > humiliate you.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

>

> >

>

> > Suryasiddhanta.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Varahamihira either did not possess complete Suryasiddhanta or parts

>

> >

>

> > of Panchasiddhantika have been lost ; in existing form

>

> >

>

> > Panchasiddhantika is useless for actual computations for even 550 AD.

>

> >

>

> > Discuss it, instead of creating a mass hysteria like a politician. I

>

> >

>

> > have earlier stated that Varahamihira was a great scholar in Jyotisha

>

> >

>

> > and was an excellent poet also, but Panchasiddhantika in its existing

>

> >

>

> > form is a poor work. Why running away from discussion? If you know how

>

> >

>

> > to compute planetary positions (which you perhaps know, I guess, I am

>

> >

>

> > not insulting you), prove me wrong by showing actual computations for

>

> >

>

> > any period, and I will apologize and throw away Suryasiddhanta and

>

> >

>

> > will become your student for ever, otherwise you will have to accept

>

> >

>

> > my views, this is the rule of Shaastraartha. Why running away and

>

> >

>

> > inciting your students for beheading me or expelling me ??

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has nothing

>

> >

>

> > to speak of any scientific work done.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Wrong allegation. Neither I need admirers, nor I claimed to have one

>

> >

>

> > (once Suniljee used this term, which you have caught).

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > My scientific work is on website, why you are misinforming your

>

> >

>

> > students?? If you failed to locate the website, you could have asked

>

> >

>

> > me, instead of abusing and propagating falsehood about me.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

>

> >

>

> > Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Yes, it is written in the text of Suryasiddhanta as well as in other

>

> >

>

> > standard texts like BPHS (Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra) : these

>

> >

>

> > planets are deities, and only rishis can see deities. Another proof is

>

> >

>

> > Suryasiddhantis software, which you want to get banned without being

>

> >

>

> > tested. I am not imposing it on you at gunpoint, you may reject it.

>

> >

>

> > But if you abuse it, you should prove it to be wrong astrologically.

>

> >

>

> > You have faith in astrology, and I promise you will relish this

>

> >

>

> > software after you test it without any bias.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

>

> >

>

> > modern times.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > One can experiment with 50 types of ayanamshas & c, why so much hatred

>

> >

>

> > for Suryasiddhanta so as to deny it even a chance of being tested ???

>

> >

>

> > Many universities in India teach Suryasiddhanta, not for historical

>

> >

>

> > reasons but for modern age utility in astrology. Benaras Hindu

>

> >

>

> > University and KSD Sanskrit University (from my software) are

>

> >

>

> > publishing their panchangas on Sursiddhanta for many generations,

>

> >

>

> > scores of private panchangas are also being published on its basis,

>

> >

>

> > and one panchanga by HRD Ministry of Govt of Bihar is being published

>

> >

>

> > on its basis (from my software). Would you hang or ban them all??

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

>

> >

>

> > society to exploit it.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > It is a abuse, because I am not exploiting anyone, my works are

>

> >

>

> > totally free ; even my published book was without a price.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > My only fault is that I am not a victim of Lord Macaulay's education

>

> >

>

> > policy which teaches us to believe that only Maxmuller or Reverend

>

> >

>

> > Burgess can be authorities on Vedas and Vedangas(this statement is not

>

> >

>

> > intended to offend any person, it is my philosophy). " Victim is Indian

>

> >

>

> > heritage and the truth underlying it. " Really ! Please calm down and

>

> >

>

> > discuss like a scholar. It is a serious topic which cannot be

>

> >

>

> > discussed in the manner you are doing it. Please calm down!!

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > -VJ

>

> >

>

> > ============ ============ === ============ ==

>

> >

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " chandra_hari18 "

>

> >

>

> > <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Who is the abuser and who is the victim?

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 1. Abuser is the one who makes false claims

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 2. Abuser is the one who propagates falsehood claiming sixth sense

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 3. Abuser is the one who abuses great works like Panchasiddhantika

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 4. Abuser is the one who alleges that Varahamihira did not knew

>

> >

>

> > > Suryasiddhanta

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 5. Abuser is the one who claims admirers and followers and has

nothing

>

> >

>

> > > to speak of any scientific work done

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 6. Abuser is the one who says that the planets mentioned in

>

> >

>

> > > Suryasiddhant are not real observable planets

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 7. Abuser is the one who advocates Suryasiddhanta computations in

>

> modern

>

> >

>

> > > times

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 8. Abuser is the one who seeks shelter under the goodness of the

>

> society

>

> >

>

> > > to exploit it.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Victim is Indian heritage and the truth underlying it. I am not

asking

>

> >

>

> > > anyone to expel anyone. I have reasonably good knowledge of the

Indian

>

> >

>

> > > astronomical tradition and that is known to my friends in the

>

> group and

>

> >

>

> > > my works are published in standard Journals. I have known the

subject

>

> >

>

> > > through well known commentaries and through the works of Prof. KV

>

> Sarma,

>

> >

>

> > > TS Kuppanna Sastri, KS Shukla etc. If anyone appears out of the

>

> blue and

>

> >

>

> > > claims that the well known notions as in Burgess commentary

>

> supported by

>

> >

>

> > > these scholars is all wrong and there is some new twist known only

>

> to a

>

> >

>

> > > sixth sense agency, I am not ready to accept that. I have seen

>

> many guys

>

> >

>

> > > who make such claims and have exposed them to save the poor

students.

>

> >

>

> > > That is the service I can do with this life.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > chandra hari

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " vinayjhaa16 "

>

> >

>

> > > <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Chiranjiv Mehta Jee,

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Thanks for putting the abuser and the abused in the same dock. The

>

> >

>

> > > > issue is not of my ego. The problem is that Mr Chandra Hari is

>

> >

>

> > > > intolerant of any " view " which he does not like, and is inciting

>

> >

>

> > > > everyone to expel me without allowing me any chance in a free

>

> and fair

>

> >

>

> > > > discussion.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > I again repeat that the issue is not of ego, but of honesty on

>

> the one

>

> >

>

> > > > hand and basic problems of astrology not being allowed to be

>

> discussed

>

> >

>

> > > > by Mr Hari, on the other.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > I never abused, but in spite of my requests to get the discussions

>

> >

>

> > > > started in a cordial environment, I have received fresh abuses

even

>

> >

>

> > > > today, coupled with a justification that " frauds selling their

>

> >

>

> > > > products " must be expelled. I support this statement of Mr

Hari, but

>

> >

>

> > > > he is inverting this statement in the opposite direction and

>

> demands a

>

> >

>

> > > > censorship on views not liked by him.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > I never sold any product. Why his fraudulent and dishonest

>

> statements

>

> >

>

> > > > about me are being allowed by the moderator ?

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > The main issue is of these " views " which he wants to abuse

away, but

>

> >

>

> > > > will never be able to choke.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > -VJ

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, chiranjiv

mehta

>

> >

>

> > > > vchiranjiv@ wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Dear Gnyanis,

>

> >

>

> > > > > The formost tantric has said, that Gnyan is bandhan eventually.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Lord Krishna has said that to look at anything as either of 2

>

> >

>

> > > > opposites , is bad habit.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Then there is a zen story of a buddhist Zen master sworn to

>

> >

>

> > > > celibacy, who nonchalently saved a semiclad bathing beauty ,

while

>

> >

>

> > > > his disciples looked on. These disciples could not

>

> >

>

> > > > > digest this and one day asked their master polietly - how

>

> could you

>

> >

>

> > > > touch / do what you did? The master says - I lifted the girl

and put

>

> >

>

> > > > her on the banks of the river, but you are still carrying her !

>

> >

>

> > > > > Do not let your gnyan stoke your ego's. Keep ego aside and

>

> >

>

> > > spread

>

> >

>

> > > > your knowledge or else

>

> >

>

> > > > > it will be of no use and die with you.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Â

>

> >

>

> > > > > Thanks & Regards

>

> >

>

> > > > > Â

>

> >

>

> > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > --- On Fri, 9/1/09, neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

>

> >

>

> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] let us get back to

>

> discussions

>

> >

>

> > > > > " ancient_indian_ astrology "

>

> >

>

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

>

> >

>

> > > > > Friday, 9 January, 2009, 12:27 PM

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Dear All,

>

> >

>

> > > > > I am reminded of college ragging days when a new entrant to an

>

> >

>

> > > > academy is cornered by all the so-called seniors. But on the

>

> positive

>

> >

>

> > > > side, it led to a good understanding and rapport building with

>

> the new

>

> >

>

> > > > comer, who would then repeat the cycle with another one

entering the

>

> >

>

> > > > domain.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Let us now stop the blame game, mud-slinging and mocking and

>

> behave

>

> >

>

> > > > like good students, which we are. Even though all of us are not

>

> >

>

> > > > competent enough to discuss directly point-by-point, but surely we

>

> >

>

> > > > know enough astrology to separate the grain from the chaff, or as

>

> >

>

> > > > Bhaskar ji says parasmani from paththar.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Let us allow a fair chance to Vinay Jha ji to present his

>

> theory and

>

> >

>

> > > > rest his case. Then we can subject him to open house and counter

>

> >

>

> > > > questions. And all of us should remember the rules of the game.

>

> There

>

> >

>

> > > > is no guru, all are learners and not bound to accept something

which

>

> >

>

> > > > we do not agree with.

>

> >

>

> > > > > I would request Chandra Hari ji not to be volatile and refrain

>

> >

>

> > > > himself from using abusive language even when he does not agree.

>

> What

>

> >

>

> > > > we think is wrong, may be just another point of view, and we are

>

> >

>

> > > > always free to disregard it and discard it.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Regarding the software or hardware Vinay ji, we all work

hard and

>

> >

>

> > > > make a product to gain something from it. If you are not

looking for

>

> >

>

> > > > money and giving it as freeware, you are looking for name and

>

> fame! If

>

> >

>

> > > > you deny even that, you are looking forward to promote what you

>

> think

>

> >

>

> > > > is right among such groups of astrologers as this.

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > If the purpose is purely to promote some secret gyan, then the

>

> real

>

> >

>

> > > > guru will surely wait for or call supatras by telling them

what you

>

> >

>

> > > > want to impart, understand their level of comprehension of the

>

> >

>

> > > > subject, prepare them for what they will be taught and then teach

>

> >

>

> > > > those secrets. Do you think in this age of frauds and tricksters,

>

> >

>

> > > > specially the internet types, anyone would take you so

>

> seriously, even

>

> >

>

> > > > if you were an avatar of Parashara.

>

> >

>

> > > > > I can understand the pain, if Vinay ji is a true scholar and a

>

> >

>

> > > > believer in his works. But everyone is free to express views in a

>

> >

>

> > > > democratic forum. Road to truth is not easy!

>

> >

>

> > > > > Let us restart with a hope to see the truth.

>

> >

>

> > > > > Regards

>

> >

>

> > > > > Neelam

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

>

> >

>

> > > > http://messenger. / invite/

>

> >

>

> > > > >

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayji,I

recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of

Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the astronomical data

you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra Saka,

which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.Regards,SKB

[Guest guest]

Sunil jee,

 

Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

 

-VJ

============= ============= =============

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> I

> recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

> Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

astronomical data

> you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

> Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

> to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra Saka,

> which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> Regards,

>

> SKB

>

[Guest guest]

Vinayji,Why do you assume as follow, without citing any basis.Quote--------because the beeja corrections "mysteriously" given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed by some later scribe.UnquoteSKB--- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 Re: let us get back to discussions - Who is the abuser? Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:18 AM

 

Sunil jee,

 

Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

corrections "mysteriously" given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

here ; they are bored with "useless" mathematics. I will put this

topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

 

-VJ

============ = ============ = ============ =

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> I

> recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of

> Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

astronomical data

> you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

> Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

> to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra Saka,

> which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> Regards,

>

> SKB

>

[Guest guest]

Sunil Jee,

 

You missed my statement : " The problem is that such topics need

detailed discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will

not allow here ; they are bored with 'useless' mathematics. I will put

this topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there. "

 

You do not know my workload at present. It is impossible to write a

scientific paper in a hurry. Before I write it when I am free, why you

do not try to find out the actual value of beeja corrections

" mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira. Please read Panchsiddhantika,

in the second verse Varaha Mihira spoke of this " mystery " but did not

elaborate.

 

What you want requires at least a hundred pages of serious matter. The

mystery of beej-samskaar was deliberately kept a secret by panchanga

makers. I am a panchanga maker myself, and I know this " mystery " which

is actually very simple, but it needs a proper forum, or a new book.

Here, a new useless controversy will start by discussing new things

not known to most members. No Western commentator of any Indian

siddhanta knew this mystery, and Anglophiles will lauch a new attack

on me if I write anything about it here. Such things are discussed

among sober persons in a non-combatant environment, not among jehadis.

 

-VJ

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Vinayji,

>

> Why do you assume as follow,  without citing any basis.

>

> Quote

>

> --------because the beeja corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha

Mihira were perhaps changed by some later scribe.

>

> Unquote

>

> SKB

>

> --- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:18 AM

>

>

>

>

>

Sunil jee,

>

>

>

> Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

>

> and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

>

> a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

>

> Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

>

> But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

>

> planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

>

> corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

>

> by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

>

> discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

>

> here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

>

> topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

>

>

> -VJ

>

> ============ = ============ = ============ =

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

>

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dear Vinayji,

>

> >

>

> > I

>

> > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

>

> > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

>

> > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

>

> astronomical data

>

> > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

>

> > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

>

> > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

>

> > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

Saka,

>

> > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > SKB

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

 

As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in between

discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji given

them a shelter like feeling because of old association with him and

they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to learn new

from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling himself,

we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to behave as

like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

 

One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How you keep

the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to listen

than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish present them

my presentation.

 

Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just said

which i feel.

 

I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any offence or

wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a lesson to

us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to present his

view in harmonious atmosphair.

 

Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

 

Thanks,

 

M.S.Bohra

 

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Sunil jee,

>

> Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

> and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

> a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

> But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

> planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

> by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

> discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

> here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> -VJ

> ============= ============= =============

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > I

> > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

> > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> astronomical data

> > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

> > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

> > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

Saka,

> > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > SKB

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayji,

 

I met an astrologer of 85 years today. He is a Prakhand Pandit and a

Professor too.

 

He did bring this topic today, about the original Siddhant not having

some corrections due to the slowing of the Rotation and wobbling of the

Earth over the years, which was not taken into account as there were no

calculators in that period, and something like this. I could not follow

his explanation as not adept in these matters.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Sunil jee,

>

> Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

> and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

> a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

> But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

> planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

> by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

> discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

> here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> -VJ

> ============= ============= =============

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > I

> > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of

> > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> astronomical data

> > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time

the

> > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

came

> > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

Saka,

> > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > SKB

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

 

As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in between

discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji given

them a shelter like feeling because of old association with him and

they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to learn new

from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling himself,

we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to behave as

like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

 

One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How you keep

the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to listen

than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish present them

my presentation.

 

Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just said

which i feel.

 

I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any offence or

wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a lesson to

us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to present his

view in harmonious atmosphere.

 

Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

 

Thanks,

 

M.S.Bohra

 

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Sunil jee,

>

> Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

> and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

> a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

> But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

> planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

> by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

> discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

> here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> -VJ

> ============= ============= =============

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > I

> > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

> > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> astronomical data

> > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time the

> > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that came

> > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

Saka,

> > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > SKB

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bohra ji:

 

" As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in between

discussion,. "

 

Would you be kind enough to simplify the same and present to us in a

digestible form? You seem to understand the whole concept and ready

for the next level, it would be great, if we are all on the same

level. For your convinience, I already understood " Vinay ji is a

monk who cannot talk about women and wine (but all about " I "

and " my " ), meaning of brahmachari, he is busy making softwares,

wetpaint site, some ignorance of varahamihira and CH is the villian

with superficial knowledge (if any), Vinay ji is the victim and most

important of all Neelam ji is joker according to you as she could not

keep up with yours and Vinay ji's wavelength. This much I could

understood, considering me as the least understood, it would be nice

to start from this level.

 

I read the posts regularly and I observed that Neelam ji with her

authority in the subject and graceful language contributes the most

in this forum. I also noticed her maturity and seriousness in all

her postings. What do you mean by she jokes when people discuss

seriously? Since you know very well all about the " word stuff " you

should puase a moment before you make such comments. It is all upto

the individual to decide what is serious and what is joke, but on

that also you may shed some light on.

 

 

Jaya

 

, " msbohra62 "

<msbohra62 wrote:

>

> Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

>

> As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

> wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in

between

> discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji given

> them a shelter like feeling because of old association with him and

> they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to learn

new

> from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling

himself,

> we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to behave as

> like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

>

> One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How you keep

> the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

> presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to

listen

> than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish present

them

> my presentation.

>

> Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just said

> which i feel.

>

> I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any offence or

> wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a lesson

to

> us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to present his

> view in harmonious atmosphair.

>

> Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

>

> Thanks,

>

> M.S.Bohra

>

>

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > Sunil jee,

> >

> > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his

samhita

> > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to

write

> > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

wisdom.

> > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give

you

> > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

changed

> > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need

detailed

> > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not

allow

> > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============= ============= =============

> > , Sunil

Bhattacharjya

> > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > I

> > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date

of 

> > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> > astronomical data

> > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

time the

> > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as

that came

> > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the

Sakendra

> Saka,

> > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bohra jee,

 

See my answer at :

/message/17356

 

Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

 

 

-VJ

====== =========

, " msbohra62 "

<msbohra62 wrote:

>

> Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

>

> As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

> wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in between

> discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji given

> them a shelter like feeling because of old association with him and

> they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to learn new

> from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling himself,

> we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to behave as

> like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

>

> One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How you keep

> the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

> presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to listen

> than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish present them

> my presentation.

>

> Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just said

> which i feel.

>

> I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any offence or

> wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a lesson to

> us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to present his

> view in harmonious atmosphere.

>

> Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

>

> Thanks,

>

> M.S.Bohra

>

>

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > Sunil jee,

> >

> > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

> > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

> > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

> > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

> > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

> > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

> > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

> > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============= ============= =============

> > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > I

> > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

> > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> > astronomical data

> > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

time the

> > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

came

> > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

> Saka,

> > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > SKB

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinay jee,

 

I have already gone through by your previous post.In my view we should

keep open our mind for every theory for learning,after analyse every

thing we make our mind for final conclusion.

 

If a person have devoted his valuable lot of time on a subject,he

deserve to explain his work.We forget it that he is giving his essence

of so many year works in few hours to us.If find that was not useful

for us,we can leave it.But during understanding others thoughts and

works we learn so many new things.At least it is not the changing the

religion of any one so we become rigid,it is the field of Astrology

where we have so many dimension and theories.

 

At least i would like to learn from you and if Chandrahariji will give

us some knowledge,i would like to learn from him also.

 

Thanks,

 

M.S.bohra

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Bohra jee,

>

> See my answer at :

> /message/17356

>

> Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

>

>

> -VJ

> ====== =========

> , " msbohra62 "

> <msbohra62@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

> >

> > As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup with your

> > wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in between

> > discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji given

> > them a shelter like feeling because of old association with him and

> > they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to learn new

> > from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling himself,

> > we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to behave as

> > like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

> >

> > One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How you keep

> > the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

> > presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to listen

> > than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish present them

> > my presentation.

> >

> > Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just said

> > which i feel.

> >

> > I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any offence or

> > wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a lesson to

> > us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to present his

> > view in harmonious atmosphere.

> >

> > Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > M.S.Bohra

> >

> >

> >

> > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> > <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sunil jee,

> > >

> > > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

> > > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to

write

> > > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> > > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

wisdom.

> > > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot

give you

> > > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> > > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

changed

> > > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

> > > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not

allow

> > > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

> > > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ============= ============= =============

> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Vinayji,

> > > >

> > > > I

> > > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of 

> > > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> > > astronomical data

> > > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

> > > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

> time the

> > > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

> came

> > > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

> > Saka,

> > > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > SKB

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayji,

 

If we will not include Physical Astronomy than how we will justify all

the planets and their motions,degrees etc.how we will co relate us

with this practical universe?Yours mean all astrological planets which

we are using all are imaginary? or i am understanding your thought wrong.

 

Thanks,

 

M.S.bohra

 

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Bohrajee,

> There should be no censorship on a particular theory of Jyotisha, esp

> if has been accepted by so many universities to be fit for astrology.

> No university has ever supported the use of physical astronomy for

> astrology, yet I never said it should be banned or " beheaded " .

> -VJ

>

> , " msbohra62 "

> <msbohra62@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinay jee,

> >

> > I have already gone through by your previous post.In my view we should

> > keep open our mind for every theory for learning,after analyse every

> > thing we make our mind for final conclusion.

> >

> > If a person have devoted his valuable lot of time on a subject,he

> > deserve to explain his work.We forget it that he is giving his essence

> > of so many year works in few hours to us.If find that was not useful

> > for us,we can leave it.But during understanding others thoughts and

> > works we learn so many new things.At least it is not the changing the

> > religion of any one so we become rigid,it is the field of Astrology

> > where we have so many dimension and theories.

> >

> > At least i would like to learn from you and if Chandrahariji will give

> > us some knowledge,i would like to learn from him also.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > M.S.bohra

> >

> >

> > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> > <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Bohra jee,

> > >

> > > See my answer at :

> > > /message/17356

> > >

> > > Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

> > >

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ====== =========

> > > , " msbohra62 "

> > > <msbohra62@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

> > > >

> > > > As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup

with your

> > > > wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in

> between

> > > > discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji

given

> > > > them a shelter like feeling because of old association with

him and

> > > > they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to

> learn new

> > > > from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling

> himself,

> > > > we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to

behave as

> > > > like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

> > > >

> > > > One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How

you keep

> > > > the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so classical

> > > > presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to

> listen

> > > > than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish

> present them

> > > > my presentation.

> > > >

> > > > Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just

said

> > > > which i feel.

> > > >

> > > > I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any

offence or

> > > > wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a

> lesson to

> > > > us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to

present his

> > > > view in harmonious atmosphere.

> > > >

> > > > Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > M.S.Bohra

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> > > > <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunil jee,

> > > > >

> > > > > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his

> samhita

> > > > > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to

> > write

> > > > > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

> > > > > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

> > wisdom.

> > > > > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot

> > give you

> > > > > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

> > > > > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

> > changed

> > > > > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need

> detailed

> > > > > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not

> > allow

> > > > > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put

this

> > > > > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look

there.

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > > ============= ============= =============

> > > > > , Sunil

> Bhattacharjya

> > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Vinayji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > > > > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong

> date of 

> > > > > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> > > > > astronomical data

> > > > > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not

correct.

> > > > > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

> > > time the

> > > > > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there

as that

> > > came

> > > > > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the

> Sakendra

> > > > Saka,

> > > > > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SKB

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Read the last few lines of my paper accepted by IISc, CAOS :

 

" If we pay more attention to a thorough examination of raw data of

relative rainfall in order to find hidden patterns of nature, a whole

new world may be opened, literally, because this new approach is based

upon the theory of two universes . This second universe is not

composed of visible matter but influences the events of our universe

profoundly "

 

This non-material universe is visualized as anti-universe by modern

scientists. Since it is non-material, it cannot be directly perceived

by human senses. But it does not make it imaginary. We cannot see many

material phenomena directly, such as magnetism, but can prove its

existence from its effects. Does it make magnetism imaginary ? Hunams

are not everything. There are worlds we cannot see directly. Astrology

was created by those sages who had extra sensory powers. Sometimes

normal humans also get a temporary access to such powers, such as

telepathy or sixth sense.

 

The proof of this second universe is Suryasiddhantic Kundalee

software. Without testing it, you will never believe its power.

 

-VJ

 

 

 

 

, " msbohra62 "

<msbohra62 wrote:

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> If we will not include Physical Astronomy than how we will justify all

> the planets and their motions,degrees etc.how we will co relate us

> with this practical universe?Yours mean all astrological planets which

> we are using all are imaginary? or i am understanding your thought

wrong.

>

> Thanks,

>

> M.S.bohra

>

>

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > Bohrajee,

> > There should be no censorship on a particular theory of Jyotisha, esp

> > if has been accepted by so many universities to be fit for astrology.

> > No university has ever supported the use of physical astronomy for

> > astrology, yet I never said it should be banned or " beheaded " .

> > -VJ

> >

> > , " msbohra62 "

> > <msbohra62@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Vinay jee,

> > >

> > > I have already gone through by your previous post.In my view we

should

> > > keep open our mind for every theory for learning,after analyse every

> > > thing we make our mind for final conclusion.

> > >

> > > If a person have devoted his valuable lot of time on a subject,he

> > > deserve to explain his work.We forget it that he is giving his

essence

> > > of so many year works in few hours to us.If find that was not useful

> > > for us,we can leave it.But during understanding others thoughts and

> > > works we learn so many new things.At least it is not the

changing the

> > > religion of any one so we become rigid,it is the field of Astrology

> > > where we have so many dimension and theories.

> > >

> > > At least i would like to learn from you and if Chandrahariji

will give

> > > us some knowledge,i would like to learn from him also.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > M.S.bohra

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> > > <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Bohra jee,

> > > >

> > > > See my answer at :

> > > >

/message/17356

> > > >

> > > > Which is the Best Mathematical Method for Predictive Astrology ??

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ====== =========

> > > > , " msbohra62 "

> > > > <msbohra62@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Vinay ji and all dearest members,

> > > > >

> > > > > As I feel in all,most of the members were could not tuneup

> with your

> > > > > wavelength of knowledge so they feel some where incompetent in

> > between

> > > > > discussion,some have accepted it.But entrance of Chandrahariji

> given

> > > > > them a shelter like feeling because of old association with

> him and

> > > > > they have ignored his personal comments on you.They want to

> > learn new

> > > > > from you but could not express it in right way.We are calling

> > himself,

> > > > > we all are student here but our ego could not allow us to

> behave as

> > > > > like student.Some Jupiter effects may be.

> > > > >

> > > > > One person told Shri Ravishankar(The great Sitar wadak) " How

> you keep

> > > > > the people sitting very interestingly to listen your so

classical

> > > > > presentation? " He reply " Firstly I present them what they want to

> > listen

> > > > > than gradually take them to at level where I want to wish

> > present them

> > > > > my presentation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please don't feel it any advise or guidance to you.I have just

> said

> > > > > which i feel.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also request, to all members ,please don't take it any

> offence or

> > > > > wrong way we all doing mistake many times.Every mistake is a

> > lesson to

> > > > > us,take it in positive way.Welcome again Mr.Vinay ji to

> present his

> > > > > view in harmonious atmosphere.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please forgive me if I have hurt any body .

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > >

> > > > > M.S.Bohra

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> > > > > <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sunil jee,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his

> > samhita

> > > > > > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a

fool to

> > > write

> > > > > > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary

motions.

> > > > > > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

> > > wisdom.

> > > > > > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot

> > > give you

> > > > > > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the

beeja

> > > > > > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

> > > changed

> > > > > > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need

> > detailed

> > > > > > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons

will not

> > > allow

> > > > > > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put

> this

> > > > > > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look

> there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > ============= ============= =============

> > > > > > , Sunil

> > Bhattacharjya

> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Vinayji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

> > > > > > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong

> > date of 

> > > > > > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

> > > > > > astronomical data

> > > > > > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not

> correct.

> > > > > > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that.

At his

> > > > time the

> > > > > > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there

> as that

> > > > came

> > > > > > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the

> > Sakendra

> > > > > Saka,

> > > > > > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SKB

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vinayji,I know the mystery. The mystery is the precessional movement of the earth, which has been alluded to when Varahamihira said directly / indirectly that at earlier times the Solstice / Equinox occurred at different positions in the Nirayana Zodiac. It is for this reason the ancient astronomers determined the positional data at different times. Bhaskaracharya too looked at the night sky with his yantras before penning down the Siddhanta Siromani. Today of course one will not have to take so much trouble to devise those ancient yantras. This work falls in the domain of the Astronomer-Jyotishis and not of the Astrologer-Jyotishis.If you want us to believe in your opinion you have to prove that to us.

I note that you propose to work on it and the details will be there in your website. Please give us the link when you camplete your work and there is now hurry. You may also give exact reference to any existing literature which proves your point. Regards,

SKB

Moderator activity - Certain contents of this message has been edited to avoid inconvenience to other members of the groups

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskarji,It appears that the old professor had referred to the phenomenon of precession. The growing and melting of polar ice cap from time to time may also have effect on this among many other factors. The effect of this phenomenon is to be best checked through physical observation by the astronomers from time to time and not entirely depend on some formula, which will be found to work only for a limited time.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

[Guest guest]

Sunil jee,

 

You referred to " growing and melting of polar ice cap " while

discussing precession. But the process is far more complicated. Please

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

 

This article mentions a " At the same time, the elliptical orbit

rotates, more slowly, leading to a 21,000-year cycle between the

seasons and the orbit. " Shiddhanta Shiramani quotes " Mujjala "

(Munjaala and Manjul according to other sources) who gave a cycle of

4320000000 / 199669 = 21635.8 years per revolution of " ayana-chalana " .

It was not motion of ayana wrt fixed nakshatras, but motion of ayana

wrt seasons(ie, wrt precession of equinoxes), which commentators could

not correctly interpret.

 

The most important glacial cycle of ~100000 years is obtained by

taking recourse to the followinh harmonic series :

 

(1 / ~21000) - (1 / 25789.5) = (1 / >100000)

 

25789.5 is the precessional period of equinoxwes.

 

Siddhaantic ayanamsha has no connection with equinoctial precession.

Western commentators reject Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha as

" unscientific " , because no such phenomena is observed in the physical

world. They are not ready to test the validity of astrology. Hence, it

is useless to arue with them. The proofs of astrology lies in its

astrological outcome, not in ots comparison with physical planetary

positions. Perhaps you are also interested only in scholastic

historical discussions, instead of testing my claims astrologically

and not astronomically. I am not accusing you, but requesting you to

test astrology astrologically, and not astronomically, please.

 

-VJ

============= ============= =============

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskarji,

>

> It appears that the old professor had referred to the phenomenon of

precession. The growing and melting of polar ice cap from time to time

may also have effect on this among many other factors. The effect of

this phenomenon is to be best checked through physical observation by

the astronomers from time to time and not entirely depend on some

formula, which will be found to work only for a limited time.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Sunday, January 11, 2009, 4:53 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Vinayji,

>

>

>

> I met an astrologer of 85 years today. He is a Prakhand Pandit and a

>

> Professor too.

>

>

>

> He did bring this topic today, about the original Siddhant not having

>

> some corrections due to the slowing of the Rotation and wobbling of the

>

> Earth over the years, which was not taken into account as there were no

>

> calculators in that period, and something like this. I could not follow

>

> his explanation as not adept in these matters.

>

>

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, " vinayjhaa16 "

>

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Sunil jee,

>

> >

>

> > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his samhita

>

> > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to write

>

> > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

>

> > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and wisdom.

>

> > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give you

>

> > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

>

> > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps changed

>

> > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need detailed

>

> > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not allow

>

> > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

>

> > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> >

>

> > -VJ

>

> > ============ = ============ = ============ =

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

>

> > sunil_bhattacharjya @ wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Dear Vinayji,

>

> > >

>

> > > I

>

> > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

>

> > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date of

>

> > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

>

> > astronomical data

>

> > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

>

> > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his time

>

> the

>

> > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

>

> came

>

> > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the Sakendra

>

> Saka,

>

> > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> > >

>

> > > Regards,

>

> > >

>

> > > SKB

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vinay

 

There is nothing call good or bad.

 

I follow KP; so for me its ephimeris and house system are most

acceptable planetary positions. All ephimeris will give varied

planetary positions, but as I work around sub theory (which has very

minor division) or even sub-sub, then my predictive success is

critically dependant upon accuracy of planetary position. AND if I am

getting good success, why should i believe on any other ayanamsa drama

- be it Lahiri / BV Raman / ChandraHari. They all may have their own

fancies, but I have my own fancy. So in summary - not many astrologers

are interested in experimenting with different ephimeris.

 

Vinay - not many astrologers (including me) know about the rationale

of ayanamsa or details of so called any such related fancy things

(e.g. shastras, vedas, spiritualism). Just like a household is not

interested in knowing the cropping methods of rice or wheat. Rice /

wheat technology sellers need not target most household. They must

target only the wheat / rice producers. So all these dramas on forum

seems to be futile exercise. Busy and experienced astrologers will not

experiment further, no matter who is saying what.

 

Take the example of System Theory astrologers, KP astrologers,

tropical astrologer or KAS astrologers - You will not find them

disputing or vaguely arguing with anyone. Perhaps, focussed ones all

are happy with our own systems. Only those people will engage in

arguments - who want to find space for their own gains OR they are

truly confused.

 

I have been observing the deemed gang rape on your submission, as if

the people raising questions are experts in planetary computations and

predictions. If so - they need not come on forums and waste time with

wrong audience. Perhaps they do not have enough works, so they are

keeping themselves busy.

 

One more thing - if you have come out with something startling thing,

then why are you putting your energy in proving it. Just provide your

software and let time prove its use.

 

Well.. in democracy everyone has got rights to write. I guess -

Moderators have been very timid or conspiring, to allow / encourage

malicious writings.

 

In our MP - there is another very popular panchang, published from

Neemach. They too have few hundred years of history and perhaps,

predictive success by their followers. But is the predictive success

solely dependant upon ephimeris !!.

 

For a minute - assume that there are no abusers. Abuses can not have

any place in knowledge society, unless they are shallow.

 

Anu Pathak

 

 

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskarji,

>

> It appears that the old professor had referred to the phenomenon of

precession. The growing and melting of polar ice cap from time to time

may also have effect on this among many other factors. The effect of

this phenomenon is to be best checked through physical observation by

the astronomers from time to time and not entirely depend on some

formula, which will be found to work only for a limited time.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Sunday, January 11, 2009, 4:53 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Vinayji,

>

>

>

> I met an astrologer of 85 years today. He is a Prakhand Pandit and a

>

> Professor too.

>

>

>

> He did bring this topic today, about the original Siddhant not

having

>

> some corrections due to the slowing of the Rotation and wobbling of

the

>

> Earth over the years, which was not taken into account as there were

no

>

> calculators in that period, and something like this. I could not

follow

>

> his explanation as not adept in these matters.

>

>

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, " vinayjhaa16 "

>

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Sunil jee,

>

> >

>

> > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his

samhita

>

> > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to

write

>

> > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

>

> > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

wisdom.

>

> > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give

you

>

> > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

>

> > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

changed

>

> > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need

detailed

>

> > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not

allow

>

> > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

>

> > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> >

>

> > -VJ

>

> > ============ = ============ = ============ =

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

>

> > sunil_bhattacharjya @ wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Dear Vinayji,

>

> > >

>

> > > I

>

> > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

>

> > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date

of

>

> > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

>

> > astronomical data

>

> > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

>

> > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

time

>

> the

>

> > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

>

> came

>

> > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the

Sakendra

>

> Saka,

>

> > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> > >

>

> > > Regards,

>

> > >

>

> > > SKB

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vinay

 

Each one is on his/her own journey of exploration. If your methods are

secretive, then why publish or even explain. Just give the end output.

Even if you explain, there are few to understand and adapt.

 

Another crude perspective - I assume, you have spent n years in fine

tuning your computations. Do you feel that same should be disclosed in

few writings. Who does it?

 

Just provide your software. If people are interested, they will

experiment and give you feedback. Forums seldom have scholars, rather

they have practicing astrologer (like me - who is not doing very well

commercially compared to popular ones).

 

 

Anu Pathak

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Vinayji,

>

> I know the mystery. It is another thing that you do not believe in

that. The mystery is the precessional movement of the earth, which has

been alluded to when Varahamihira said directly / indirectly that at

earlier times the Solstice / Equinox occurred at different positions

in the Nirayana Zodiac. It is for this reason the ancient astronomers

determined the positional data at different times. Bhaskaracharya too

looked at the night sky with his yantras before penning down the

Siddhanta Siromani. Today of course one will not have to take so much

trouble to devise those ancient yantras. This work falls in the domain

of  the Astronomer-Jyotishis and not of the Astrologer-Jyotishis.

>

> If you want us to believe in your opinion you have to prove that to

us but till then it is better if you do not tell us that we are wrong

and thus attempt to shake our confidence. I note that you propose to

work on it and the details will be there in your website. Please give

us the link when you camplete your work and there is now hurry, I hope

that till then you will not say that we are wrong and you will keep

your opinion to yourself as I feel that It is not proper to tell

someone as wrong  untill and unless you have the proof of that

yourself. Just your feeling or your word is not enough to convince

others. Why should anybody take your word for it? Do you yourself

trust what anybody says, without seeking the proof, unless of course

you know him personally long enough to go by his word. You may also

give exact reference to any existing literature which proves your

point.

>

> Regards,

>

> SKB

>

>

> --- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

> Re: let us get back to

discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> Sunday, January 11, 2009, 4:37 AM

>

>

>

>

>

Sunil Jee,

>

>

>

> You missed my statement : " The problem is that such topics need

>

> detailed discussions in a cordial environment which some persons

will

>

> not allow here ; they are bored with 'useless' mathematics. I will

put

>

> this topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look

there. "

>

>

>

> You do not know my workload at present. It is impossible to write a

>

> scientific paper in a hurry. Before I write it when I am free, why

you

>

> do not try to find out the actual value of beeja corrections

>

> " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira. Please read Panchsiddhantika,

>

> in the second verse Varaha Mihira spoke of this " mystery " but did

not

>

> elaborate.

>

>

>

> What you want requires at least a hundred pages of serious matter.

The

>

> mystery of beej-samskaar was deliberately kept a secret by panchanga

>

> makers. I am a panchanga maker myself, and I know this " mystery "

which

>

> is actually very simple, but it needs a proper forum, or a new book.

>

> Here, a new useless controversy will start by discussing new things

>

> not known to most members. No Western commentator of any Indian

>

> siddhanta knew this mystery, and Anglophiles will lauch a new attack

>

> on me if I write anything about it here. Such things are discussed

>

> among sober persons in a non-combatant environment, not among

jehadis.

>

>

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

>

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Vinayji,

>

> >

>

> > Why do you assume as follow,  without citing any basis.

>

> >

>

> > Quote

>

> >

>

> > --------because the beeja corrections " mysteriously " given by

Varaha

>

> Mihira were perhaps changed by some later scribe.

>

> >

>

> > Unquote

>

> >

>

> > SKB

>

> >

>

> > --- On Sun, 1/11/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

>

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: let us get back to

>

> discussions - Who is the abuser?

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

>

> > Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:18 AM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Sunil jee,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Varaha Mihira has given ample proof of his greatness in his

samhita

>

> >

>

> > and hora, and it is inconceivable to guess that he was a fool to

write

>

> >

>

> > a treatize on siddhanta with wrong values of planetary motions.

>

> >

>

> > Panchsiddhantika also contains proofs of his great insight and

wisdom.

>

> >

>

> > But I again repeat that the existing Panchsiddhantika cannot give

you

>

> >

>

> > planetary positions for ANY period of history, because the beeja

>

> >

>

> > corrections " mysteriously " given by Varaha Mihira were perhaps

changed

>

> >

>

> > by some later scribe. The problem is that such topics need

detailed

>

> >

>

> > discussions in a cordial environment which some persons will not

allow

>

> >

>

> > here ; they are bored with " useless " mathematics. I will put this

>

> >

>

> > topic on my own website, and members of this forum may look there.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > -VJ

>

> >

>

> > ============ = ============ = ============ =

>

> >

>

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya

>

> >

>

> > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Dear Vinayji,

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I

>

> >

>

> > > recognise your scholarship. It appears to me that regarding

>

> >

>

> > > Varahamihira you are a bit confused only due to the wrong date

of 

>

> >

>

> > > Varahamihira, which you have, as it does not match with the

>

> >

>

> > astronomical data

>

> >

>

> > > you got from his book. Your date of Varahamihira is not correct.

>

> >

>

> > > Varahamihira was born more than 600 years before that. At his

time the

>

> >

>

> > > Sakanta-Saka, which Brahmagupta mentioned, was not there as that

came

>

> >

>

> > > to be much afterwards. Varahamihira was referring ot the

Sakendra

>

> Saka,

>

> >

>

> > > which started 629 years before the Sakanta-Saka.

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > SKB

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What you suggest is what I wanted.

 

-VJ

, " indian.jyotish "

<indian.jyotish wrote:

>

> Vinay

>

> Each one is on his/her own journey of exploration. If your methods are

> secretive, then why publish or even explain. Just give the end output.

> Even if you explain, there are few to understand and adapt.

>

> Another crude perspective - I assume, you have spent n years in fine

> tuning your computations. Do you feel that same should be disclosed in

> few writings. Who does it?

>

> Just provide your software. If people are interested, they will

> experiment and give you feedback. Forums seldom have scholars, rather

> they have practicing astrologer (like me - who is not doing very well

> commercially compared to popular ones).

>

>

> Anu Pathak

>

 

Moderator- Contents of this message that could harm the interests of other

readers in the group has been edited

[Guest guest]

Vinay

 

I conduct / participate in workshops and have faced similar problems.

Most of the people have preconceived notions. With the time, even I

got fixity of approach. What works for me, I find it useful and I

stick to it. Many a times I turn blind to even useful techniques. For

example - even in KP, people are coming out with sub-sub theory. It

looks fascinating, but they are all obstructions in clearer theories.

 

In your case, I felt that you have genuinely attempted to provide

fresh perspective. But ideally, no one (including me) will attempt it

and will stick to it until it is proven beyond doubt. That day, we all

will be chasing you. So once you have restructured the issues, which

you realized that works. Just produce it through your site. The

discussion on it must be exclusively on your dedicated discussion

group, So that you are not bull dozed. I precisely do the same, in my

workshops.

 

You are a wise and learned soul. Just do not force yourself to saw,

full of cluttered and confused media. Build your dedicated channels,

just like what KP himself did. He did not argue with people, he simply

taught his methods in his dedicated classrooms. People automatically

followed him, as his methods worked.

 

Anu Pathak

 

, " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> What you suggest is what I wanted.

>

> -VJ

> , " indian.jyotish "

> <indian.jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Vinay

> >

> > Each one is on his/her own journey of exploration. If your methods

are

> > secretive, then why publish or even explain. Just give the end

output.

> > Even if you explain, there are few to understand and adapt.

> >

> > Another crude perspective - I assume, you have spent n years in

fine

> > tuning your computations. Do you feel that same should be

disclosed in

> > few writings. Who does it?

> >

> > Just provide your software. If people are interested, they will

> > experiment and give you feedback. Forums seldom have scholars,

rather

> > they have practicing astrologer (like me - who is not doing very

well

> > commercially compared to popular ones).

> >

> >

> > Anu Pathak

> >

>

> Moderator- Contents of this message that could harm the interests of

other readers in the group has been edited

>