Fwd: To AKK [From ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli ]

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hinducivilization , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli

<shankarabharadwaj wrote:

 

"

I have felt that Shree Kauljee wants Tropical Year and festivals

observed based on Tropical Year. He is very focused. This, and only

this, is is his objective."

 

This is the objective point in his argument many agree to, but that is not his

only objective. That is the whole problem. There are lot of missing links in

his argument and far fetched conclusions. And lack of information should not be

used as proof on any side.

 

1. Festivals are meant not just for astronomer or dvijas. Pitru tarpana happens

on Sankranti no doubt, but it is more a farmer's festival. And the latter

happens according to the cycle. So when someone talks of festivals he should

talk of the various aspects of the festival - the ritual aspect, popular

aspect, astronomical aspect and what not.

 

2. Sri Kaul says that there is no Astrology approved in Vedic Hinduism because

there are no rashis. This is a totally unacceptable argument because

(a) Rashis are spoken of in multiple ways in literature. And since the Purana

or Veda are not texts on astronomy one cannot expect explicit references - they

will only be implicit.

(b) Just because today's calculations are wrong one cannot conclude that it has

always been wrong. One should in the first place survey the various factors

that have driven today's calculations - not just astronomical but popular ones

too (the reason for Sankranti I mentioned is just one of the many).

© Even if you manage to show that rashis are later works, you cannot call the

whole school a fraud. That is what is making the whole topic a mess. And to

substantiate that one does not have to go guns against Varahamihira or anyone.

 

3. Alignment of calendar does not necessarily falsify rashi zodiac. They just

happen to be different approaches which need to be reconciled. His approach of

throwing away the current calendars is an overkill.

 

4. Ritu-ayana-masa-utsava do not make a constant quadruple, realignment is

needed over time. No one can design it to be permanently valid. And one does

not have to attack anything for doing a realignment. Therefore his claim that

things have gone wrong because people chose the wrong criterion is simply out

of place.

 

The issue of astrology is more political and time permitting I will try to post

my concerns on a separate thread.

 

 

 

________________________________

amsharanx amsharanx

hinducivilization

Friday, January 2, 2009 6:08:21 PM

[hc] Re: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage scientists

 

 

Actually, Shree Kauljee's inaccurate knowledge of the history of

precession among Ancient Hindu Astronomers causes a lot of confusion.

 

His intention to bring Makar Samkranti , presently observed on Jan 14

to Dec. 21 has to be clearly spelt out. Dec. 21 is Uttarayana , and it

should be said so explicitly. Why talk about Makar Samkranti when the

sideral Makar Samkranti is not there on Jan 14.

 

Secondly, the arbitrary selection of Ayanamshas by various people

including Smt Shakuntala Devi - has also caused confusion. They should

have been using precession from 57 BC and not like Xtian calendar of

325 AD whose purpose was entirely different which suited the needs of

the Pope and celebration of Easter. So, we see here that even those

claiming to be devout Hindua ( Vedic Astrologers ) are falling into

Xtian Path.

 

I have felt that Shree Kauljee wants Tropical Year and festivals

observed based on Tropical Year. He is very focused. This, and only

this, is is his objective.

 

If every one gives sufficient thought and write his or her comments in

brief then others can follow. Long postings are not helpful and often

misleading.

 

Thanks.

 

Anand M. Sharan

 

hinducivilization, "Bhalchandra Thattey"

tobhalgt@ . wrote:

 

Kindly enlighten us on CHALDEAN. What

was their country and where?

 

On 1/2/09, sreedhar.nambiar

<sreedhar.nambiar@ ... wrote:

 

 

 

.

I have also clarified it several times that the Surya Sidhanta

nomenclature of Rashis is based on

Grecho-Chaldean constellational

astronomy, and they are a virtual copy of

*Western Rashis*--aligned to

seasons without any rhyme or reason!

 

 

 

see delibarate use of words western rasies

means xian also right

mr kaul

ji

 

 

 

did u know history ? Mr kaul ji ??

 

 

 

did u show us any proof textual or

archeological or any thing

other wise to

support ur fake claims all this yrs and when

ever asked u to proov

u r sayin

some thing which only a fraud can do or simply

showing a neo converts

enthusism to destroy everything which he

previously belonged

 

 

 

so i request u to present facts

 

 

 

even the challenge to show vedic astrology is

fraud on actual basis by

accepting wrong muhurtha for some purpose or

wrong charts for

marriages or

even accepting full wrong vastu plans to make

houses etc not even

accepted

than full mouthing against it .y cant u

arrange 100 ppl frm 120 crore

population in india to show vedic astrology is

fraud on actual

basis ??

 

 

 

even challnge to debate on astrology principle

he never accepted

 

or kaul ji do u think u hav only right to call

any thing on others and

others has not ??

 

and theoretical part of this questions here

already discussed by

several

ppl in past yrs and i dont want to repeat it

here .why waist time

on some

thing which he will repeat again and again and

no sincerity or

honesty can b

expected .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hinducivilization,

"Avtar Krishen Kaul"

<jyotirved@

wrote:

Shri I Menonji,

Namaskar!

The article in Daily Michingan is full of

factual errors about

astronomy:

1. The duration of Tropical year, which

Bhaskaracharya- I is supposed

to have followed, is 365.2421898 days and not

365.258756484! It is

actually the duration of the Surya Sidhanta

year, followed by

Bhaskara-I, Aryabhata, Varahamihira etc. since

every Sidhanta

navigated around the SS as it was supposed to

be a divine work. And

the duration of the SS year is more by about

3.5 seconds than even

the sidereal year!

2.Since Indian astronomers had no knowledge of

precession till the

time of Munjala (10th century AD), it cannot

be expected by any

stretch of imagination that they were talking

of any sidereal year

because a sidereal year is calculated by

subtracting annual

precession from the duration of a Tropical

Year!

3. I have also proved it in several posts that

all the sidhantas are

talking of Makar Sankranti coinciding with

Uttarayana and so on

which

means that they were talking of Tropical i.e.

seasonal years. It is

actually the same duration of the Surya

Sidhanta year that has

created the confusion regarding Sayana versus

nirayana---when there

are actually no nirayana rashis!

4. I have also clarified it several times that

the Surya Sidhanta

nomenclature of Rashis is based on

Grecho-Chaldean constellational

astronomy, and they are a virtual copy of

Western Rashis--aligned to

seasons without any rhyme or reason!

5. The original Surya Sidhanta is the main

culprit for having misled

and confused Indian jyotishis because there is

a direct conflict

between its calcu lated longitudes as against

its presumptions that

Mehsa Sankranti is another name of Vishuva and

at the same time

claiming that right from the dawn of creation

it got hooked to

Ashvini nakshatra.

6. Regarding "Astronomy was then

interwoven with astrology and since

ancient times Indians have involved the planets

(called Grahas) with

the determination of human fortunes. The

planets Shani, i.e. Saturn

and Mangal i.e. Mars were considered

inauspicious" in Excerpt 5,

this

presumption also is without any basis unless

by "ancient times" the

author means post Budhist era. It has by now

been proved by several

reputed scholars in Archaeoastronomy papers

that there is no mention

of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis even in Parashara

Samhita nor in Rig

Jyotisham or Yajur Jyotisham or Atharva

Jyotisham or even Atharva

Veda Parishishtha!

This post is just to put the records straight.

With regards,

A K Kaul

hinducivilization,

vavamenon vavamenon@

wrote:

True

Bharatheeyans can always be proud of their heritage, existed

since the time of creation unbroken till now.

Yes,dark ages were

there in Indian history, when foreigners tried

to impose ONE-WAY-

TRACK Philosophies.

It is

imperative that we get back to our vedic roots, from

which we

have been kept away during the slavery period.

vm

--- On

Wed, 12/31/08, mega_irreverant- he@ <mega_irreverant-

he@ wrote:

mega_irreverant- he@ mega_irreverant- he@

Hinduism_environmen t (fwd)

Achievements of our

Vedic-Hindu

sage scientists

To:

vedi c_research_institut e ,

hinduism_environmen t

Date:

Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 4:51 PM

Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage

scientists

Following are a few highlights of some

inventions by our ancient

sage-scientists

-- most

of these are excerpted from the MICHIGAN DAILY of January

24, 1992:

ASTRONOMY: In the 5th century CE, Vedic

scientist and astronomer

Bhaskaracharya confirmed earlier calculations

of the ancients of

the time taken

by

earth to orbit the Sun to nine decimal places, 365.258756484

days -- a value

that

was later accepted by modern science.

MEDICINE: Sushruta performed surgery in India,

3,000 years ago,

using

& g t; 125 kinds of surgical instruments "so

advanced they could

cut a

hair

longitudinally. " Physician Charaka

described the functions of the

heart and the

circulatory system 2,000 years before the

English physician Dr.

Harvey.

PHYSICS: According to Nobel prize-winner Dr.

David Josephson, the

Vedas

hold the key to the laws of the mind and thought process

which are

correlated to the quantum fields that are the

operation and

distribution of

particles at atomic and molecular levels.

METALLURGY: India's heritage of solving

problems is often

overshadowed

by

centuries of colonialism and conquest. Outside Delhi I visited

one of the

oldest

monuments to that history... pillar of iron alloy, smelted

by Indian

metallurgists with such skill that it has

remained rust-l ess for

1,500 years.

(Photograph on page 533.) These superb

technicians were

brethren of

Indian

thinkers

who originated the concepts of zero and infinity and

devised the

inaccurately named Arabic numeral system,

giving the science of

mathematics to a

world

drenched in superstitious ignorance. - Bryan Hodgson in the

NATIONAL

GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE Volume 167, Number 4,

April 1965 page 527.

GENERAL: "It is already becoming clear

that the chapter which

had a

Western

beginning will have to have an Indian ending if it is not

to end in

self-destruction of the human race." -

Dr. Arnold Toynbee, world

historian.

A

compilation of excerpts from various sources follows:

o

Excerpt 1 - Indians originated concepts of zero, infinity,

numerals

& gt; o Excerpt 2 - 'Science. We did it

first'

o

Excerpt 3 - Tachyons lose mass, energy the faster they travel

o

Excerpt 4 - Mundakopanishad, Atharv Ved: Tachyons faster than

light

o

Excerpt 5 - Astronomy in ancient Bharat

o

Excerpt 6 - Knowledge of equinoxes, precession, astrology,

palmistry

Excerpt

1

India's

heritage of solving problems is often overshadowed by

centuries of

colonialism and conquest. Outside Delhi I visited

one of the

oldest

monuments to

that

history . . . pillar of iron alloy, smelted by Indian

metallurgists with

such

skill that it has remained rustless for 1,500 years.

(Photograph on page

533.)

These

superb technicians were brethren of Indian thinkers who

originated

the

concepts of zero and infinity and devised the inaccurately

named Arabic

numeral

system, giving the science of mathematics to a world

drenched in

superstitious ignorance.

- Bryan

Hodgson in National Geographic Magazine,

Volume

167, Number 4, April 1985, page 527

Excerpt

1 ends

Excerpt

2

Tachyons -- as everyone knows, don't they? --

are the whiz kids of

Einstein's light theories. They are faster

than light particles

(would we see

them if

they had headlights?) built as cosmic balancers into

Albert's equations.

They

represent metaphysical outriders in the material physics'

description of

the

universe.

Einstein didn't think up his gravity and light

theories. He

intuitively

imagined them in a process called

"thought expe riment." He

saw them

in a trance-

like

state. No experiments. Others nearly verified his theories

experimentally

much

later.

And

that is basically how the Vedic scientitists of millenia past

parted

the

fabric of the cosmos -- with the meditative mind. The results

revolutionized human knowledge and culture,

and foreshadowed and

outpaced many

of

today's most exotic biological, astronomical and atomic

principles.

As much

as the world honors Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Plank,

Rutherford,

Einstein and Heisenburg, the people of India

could have a bumper

sticker that

reads,

"Science. We did it first."

And

science was not separated from the sacred as it is today.

Vedic

science

is charged with supernatural connections and purpose,

ultimately plugged

into

the primeval energy and omniscience (omni-science) of

Brahman.

The

invention of the decimal, of numeration, including the

principles of

zero

and infinity in ancient India, are some of the greatest

contributions to

human

knowledge. Some other discoveries include the heliocentric

system of

astronomy, the concept of lunar mansions, or

nakshatr's; the

precession of

equinoxes due to Earth's axial tilt and the

determination of their

rate; the

establishment of luni-solar and planetary

years; the construction

of an

astronomical calendar on a scientific basis;

the rotation of Earth

on its axis;

the

knowledge of algebraic, geometric and trigonometric

principles;

the

spherical shapes of planets; the role of

interplanetary attraction

in

& gt; equilibrium; to name only a few.

Vedic

notions concerning time and space, the nature of light and

heat,

gravity

and magnetic attraction and the wave-theory of sound, were

later re-

confirmed by modern science.

-

Hinduism Today, 1994

Excerpt

2 ends

Excerpt

3

''Forty

years ago physicists were convinced that they had

discovered the

smallest particle in the atom. Today they know

that there is a

subatomic world

which

is tinier than the atomic nucleus and contains much more

energy than

anything that we can so far conceive of as

'nascent energy.'

The

concept of time breaks down in this miraculous world.

Physicists no

longer

know where or how they should classify the electron, that

building stone

and

atomic envelope. With mathematically proven particles which

travel faster

than

light -- say, the tachyons, tradyons and luxyons

calculated by

Gerald

Feinberg -- all concepts of time collapse

definitely. They behave

in exactly the

opposite way to our 'normal' elementary

particles.

Instead

of exhibiting infinite mass and with infinite energy when

they

reach

the speed of light -- as Einstein reckoned they would --

these particles

lose

mass and energy the faster they travel. What is really

inconceivable is

that

the speed of light is the lowest limit of their velocity --

above it they

can

reach a trillion fold the speed of light.''

- Erich

Von Daniken, Miracle of the Gods, Dell Pubs., Inc., 1975,

p. 163.

& gt ; Excerpt 3 ends

Excerpt

4

In

1998, someone wrote that Bharat owes $92.8 nillion to the world

And how

much does the rest of the world owe to Bharat as a result

for the

following contributions?

This is

a partial list, couresy of Prasad Gokhale:

Achievements of the Ancients

Courtesy of Dr. P. V. Vartak, Pune, Bharat

Medical

Sciences

Knowledge Ancient Reference Modern Reference

Plastic

Surgery (Repair of nose Sushruta A German

Surgeon

by the

skin flap on forehead) (4000 - 2000 BCE) (1968 CE)

Artificial Limb RigVed (1-116-15) 20th Century

Chromosomes Cunavidhi(Mahabhara t) 1860-1910

CE

(5500

BCE)

Num ber

of Chromosomes (23) Mahabharat-5500 BCE 1890 CE

Combination of Male and Female Shrimad Bhagwat

20th Century

chromosomes in zygote (4000 BCE)

Analysis of Ears RigVed Labyrinth

-McNally

Eitereya Upanishad 1925

(6000

BCE)

Beginning of the Foetal Heart Eitereya Up.

Robinson, 1972

in the

second month of pregnancy Shrimad Bhagwat

Parthenogenesis Mahabharat 20th Century

Test

Tube Babies

a) from

the ovum only Mahabharat Not possible yet

b) from

the sperm only Mahabharat Not possible yet

c) from

both ovum and sperm Mahabharat Steptoe, 1979

Elongation of Life in Shrimad Bhagwat Not yet

confirmed

Space

Travel

Cell

Division ( in 3 layers) Shrimad Bhagwat 20th Century

Embryology Eitereya Upanishad 19th Century

(6000

BCE)

Micro-organisms Mahabharat 18th Century

A

material producing a disease S-Bhagwat (1-5-33)

Haneman,18thCent.

can

prevent or cure the disease

in

minute quantity

Developing Embyro in Vitro. Mahabharat 20th

Century

Life in

trees and plants Mahabharat Bose,19thcent.

16

Functions of the Brain Eitereya Upanishad 19-20th Cent.

Definition of Sleep Prashna-Upanishad 20th

Century

Patanjali Yogsootra

Physical Sciences

Knowledge Ancient Reference Modern Reference

Velocity of Light RigVed 19th Century

Sayan

Bhashya (1400 CE)

Trans-Saturnea n Planets Mahabharat (5500 BCE)

17-19th Century

Space

Travel to another Shrimad Bhagwat Under Trials

solar

system (4000 BCE)

Gravitational Force Prashnopanishad 17th

Century

(6000

BCE)

Shankaracharya

(500

BCE)

Ultravoilet Band Sudhumravarna ---

(Mundakopanishad - M.U)

Infra-red Band Sulohita (M.U) ---

Tachyons faster than light Manojava (M.U)

Sudarshan, 1968

Nuclear

Energy Spullingini (M.U) 20th Cent.

Black

Holes Vishvaruchi (M.U) 20th Century

Monsoon

at Summer Solstice RigVed (23720 BCE) ---

Entry

in South America by Valmiki Ramayan ---

Aeroplanes (7300 BCE)

Phosphorescent Trident at V.Ramayan 1960 CE

the Bay

of Pisco, Peru,

S.America

Aeroplanes RigVed ---

Ramayan

Samarangan Sutradhara

(1050

CE)

Robot

Samarangan Sootradhara ---

Atom

(Divisible) Shrimad Bhagwat Dalton

(Indivisible)

(4000

BCE) 1800 CE

Subatomic Particles (Electr, Shrimad

Bhagwat(4000 BCE) Thomas,

Rutherford

Proton,Neutron and other) (Param-Mahan)

Chadwick (20th

Cent.)

Genesis

of Universe RigVed (10000 BCE) Gamaow, et.al

(1950)

(Nasadeeya Sootra)

Atom

Bomb Mahabharat (5500 BCE) 1945 CE

(Brahm-Astra)

Sound

Energy used to powder Mahabharat (Vajrastra) Gavreau, 1964

materials

Mercury

as energy source for Samrangan Sutradhara Indian Express,

aeroplanes 20-10-1979 CE

North

Pole Valmiki Ramayan Piery, 1909 CE

Antartica Valmiki Ramayan Piery, 1950 CE

Premordial matter from RigVed (10000 BCE) 20th

Century

which

the universe emanated (Ambha)

Formations of premordial RigVed (10000 BCE)

Gammow, 1950

matter

(Ambha-Nasadeeya)

Natural

Cycle of Water RigVed (10000 BCE) 19th Cent.

Valmiki

Ramayan

Physical Sciences

Electricity (DC) Mitra/Varuna- Teja/Agasti

18th Cent.

Water

Analysis by Agasti (Prana+Udana) 19th Cent.

electricity (H2 + O)

Electroplating Agasti 19th Cent.

Vega

becoming Pole Star Mahabharat (Vanaparva) ---

Seven

Colors in sunrays RigVed (8-72-16) ---

& g t;

Black

Spots on the Sun Valmiki Ramayan ---

Temporary Bridge on Sea Valmiki Ramayan ---

Equinox's

and Solstice's RigVed (10-18-1) ---

Meteors

"Ulka" AtharvaVed (19-9) ---

Pythagorus Theorm Sulbha Sootra (800 BCE)

Pythagorus, 500

BCE

Comet

(at Mula) Valmiki Ramayan ---

Mars in

Aldebaren V.Ramayan not occured in

last

"Breathing" of a Star RigVed

(Nasadeeya) Gamov, 1950

Gravity

and Heat Production RigVed (Nasadeeya) Gamov, 1950

in a

Star

Order

of origin of space, RigVed, Upanishads ---

gases,

heat, water and earth

Life on

Earth Mahabharat, Puranas Salem, Jogesh

1980

1.7 X

10^10 years Pati-10^10 years

Layers

of Atmosphere accor- V.Ramayan (Kish.8) ---

ding to

specific gravity

Microscope Mahabharat (5500 BCE) 16th Century

Excerpt

4 ends

Excerpt

5

Astronomy in ancient Bharat

sudheer_birod. .. wrote:

Here is

an extract from a book on the topic "Astronomy in Ancient

India":

[...]

"Astronomy is one area which has fascinated all mankind from

the

beginnings of history. In India the first

references to astronomy

are to be

found

in the Rg Ved which is dated around 2000 BCE. Vedic

Aryans in

fact deified

the

Sun, Stars and Comets.

"Astronomy was then interwoven with

astrology and since ancient

times

Indians

have involved the planets (called Grahas) with the

deter mination of

human

fortunes. The planets Shani, i.e. Saturn and Mangal i.e.

Mars

were

considered inauspicious.

In the

working out of horoscopes (called Janmakundali) , the

position of

the

Navagrahas, nine planets plus Rahu and Ketu (mythical demons,

evil forces)

was

considered. The Janmakundali was a complex mixture of science

and dogma. But

the

concept was born out of astronomical observations and

perception based on

astronomical phenomenon.

"In ancient times personalities like

Aryabhatta and Varahamihira

were

associated with Indian astronomy.

"It would be surprising for us to know

today that this science had

advanced to such an extent in ancient India

that ancient Indian

astronomers had

recognised that stars are same as the sun,

that the sun is center

of the

universe (solar system) and that the

circumference of the earth is

5000 Yojanas.

One

Yojana being 7.2 kms., the ancient Indian estimates came close

to the actual

figure.

[...] Regards Sudheer

Excerpt

5 ends

Excerpt

6

Count

Louis Hamon, known to millions as Cheiro, earned the highest

appellations through thirty years of diligent

study of the science

of

prediction. He was an expert in both astrology

and numerology but

was most

famous

for his amazing knowledge of palmistry. He wrote in 1949:

"As regards the people who first

understood and practiced this

study of the

hand,

we find undisputed proofs of their learning and knowledge.

Long before

Rome or

Greece or Israel was even heard of, the monuments of India

point back to

an age

of learning beyond, and still beyond.

"From the astronomical calculations that

the figures in their

temples

represent, it has been estimated that the

Hindus understood the

precession of

the

equinoxes centuries before the Christian era.

"In some of the ancient cave temples, the

mystic figures of the

[deities]

silently tell that such knowledge had been

possessed and used in

advance of all

those

nations afterward so celebrated for their learning.

"It has been demonstrated that to make a

change from one sign to

another in

the

zodiacal course of the sun must have occupied at least 2,140

years, and how

many

centuries elapsed before such changes came to be observed and

noticed it is

impossible even to estimate.

"The intellectual power that was

necessary to make these

observations

speaks

for itself; and yet it is to such a people that we

trace the

origin of

the

study under consideration. With the spread of the Hindu

teachings into other

lands

do we trace the spread of knowledge of palmistry.

"The Hindu Vedas are the oldest

scriptures that have been

found, and

according to some authorities they have been

the foundation of

even

the Greek

schools

of learning."

-

Cheiro's Language Of The Hand by Cheiro; Herbert

Jenkins

Limited, London, 1949.

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

 

 

 

 

 

--

Bhalchandra G. Thattey

Shubham Bhavatu

Svalpasya Yogasya Trayate Mahato Bhayat

 

 

--- End forwarded message ---