Guest guest Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Dear All,This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya). Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu,Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va….(12) I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar Ojha. See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation will be obtained. He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun. Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula. According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of 9H and inauspicious results of 3H. Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio. I invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka. RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Dear Neelamji, There has to be some other additions and substractions to this shloka, because otherwise it makes no sense in practical. If we take this shloka at " ad verbatim " then it means that any planet in power( As Dasha Lord) will give good results of the houses it represents as Exaltation and bad results of houses it represents as debilitation. I am sorry, but for me this shloka will not work. Bhaskar. , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear All, > > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya). > > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu, > Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va….(12) > > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar > Ojha. > > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and > Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of > these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation > will be obtained. > > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun. > Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula. > According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of > 9H and inauspicious results of 3H. > Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results > of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio. > *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka. > * > > Regards > Neelam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Dear Neelam ji, Shri Gopesh Kumar Ojha while explaining the shloka and before giving the example of Leo lagna has declared it as, and I quote " jyotish shastra ka ek siddhanta yahan samajhaya jata hai". [ context: your quote : Shloka 12,bhav vichar] Once a savant like Ojha ji declares it a dictum [ siddhant ], is there much left to say or comment upon. With great respect, S P Khurana , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear All,> > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu,> Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va….(12)> > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar> Ojha.> > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and> Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of> these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation> will be obtained.> > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun.> Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula.> According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of> 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results> of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka.> *> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji, Khurana ji,Bhaskar ji is right that it does not make much sense in isolation. I thank Khuranaji for his elaboration on the introductory comment by the author on the dictum. I had purposely withheld it so that others can comment on it. Even if Sh. Ojha has said so, we are free to test it for applicability. I find it quite strange and was trying to apply it sometimes, but didn't know how to apply it. The question arose, how to apply this dictum? Is there more to it than appears at its face value. Then also, with 3 planets (lagnesh/chandresh/bhavesh) we will get 6 rashis affected as ucha/neecha rashis apart from their own signs and placement signs. That practically covers the entire chart, specially after taking the navamsha also, what will be left? The existence of 'va' (or) at the end is also ambiguous. In general, we do not use this dictum for taking the bhavaphal, and we only use lagnesh/bhavesh/karak or at the most chandresh for our analysis. This would come in application only when one of the above is posited/aspecting the exaltation/debilitation rashi. Again in that case, as the opposite rashi will be neech, do we say that neechphal of the opposite rashi should be obtained, whereas in normal cases we would call it a good aspect of an exalted planet? I thought this shloka was worth investigating and we might find a different approach to predictive techniques. Kindly share your thoughts on this.RegardsNeelam2008/11/5 khurana_satpal <khurana_satpal Dear Neelam ji, Shri Gopesh Kumar Ojha while explaining the shloka and before giving the example of Leo lagna has declared it as, and I quote " jyotish shastra ka ek siddhanta yahan samajhaya jata hai " . [ context: your quote : Shloka 12,bhav vichar] Once a savant like Ojha ji declares it a dictum [ siddhant ], is there much left to say or comment upon. With great respect, S P Khurana , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote:> > Dear All,> > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu, > Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va….(12)> > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar> Ojha.> > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and > Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of> these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation> will be obtained.> > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun. > Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula.> According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of> 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results > of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka.> *> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Neelamji, // Then also, with 3 planets (lagnesh/chandresh/bhavesh) we will get 6 rashis affected as ucha/neecha rashis apart from their own signs and placement signs. That practically covers the entire chart, specially after taking the navamsha also, what will be left? // Exactly. best wishes, Bhaskar. , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji, Khurana ji,> > Bhaskar ji is right that it does not make much sense in isolation. I thank> Khuranaji for his elaboration on the introductory comment by the author on> the dictum. I had purposely withheld it so that others can comment on it.> Even if Sh. Ojha has said so, we are free to test it for applicability. I> find it quite strange and was trying to apply it sometimes, but didn't know> how to apply it. The question arose, how to apply this dictum? Is there more> to it than appears at its face value. Then also, with 3 planets> (lagnesh/chandresh/bhavesh) we will get 6 rashis affected as ucha/neecha> rashis apart from their own signs and placement signs. That practically> covers the entire chart, specially after taking the navamsha also, what will> be left?> > The existence of 'va' (or) at the end is also ambiguous. In general, we do> not use this dictum for taking the bhavaphal, and we only use> lagnesh/bhavesh/karak or at the most chandresh for our analysis. This would> come in application only when one of the above is posited/aspecting the> exaltation/debilitation rashi. Again in that case, as the opposite rashi> will be neech, do we say that neechphal of the opposite rashi should be> obtained, whereas in normal cases we would call it a good aspect of an> exalted planet?> > I thought this shloka was worth investigating and we might find a different> approach to predictive techniques. Kindly share your thoughts on this.> > Regards> Neelam> > 2008/11/5 khurana_satpal khurana_satpal > > Dear Neelam ji,> >> >> >> > Shri Gopesh Kumar Ojha while explaining the shloka and> >> > before giving the example of Leo lagna has declared it as,> >> > and I quote " jyotish shastra ka ek *siddhanta* yahan> >> > samajhaya jata hai". [ context: your quote : Shloka 12,bhav vichar]> >> >> >> > Once a savant like Ojha ji declares it a *dictum*> >> > [ *siddhant *], is there much left to say or comment upon.> >> >> >> > With great respect,> >> >> >> > S P Khurana> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , "neelam gupta"> > neelamgupta07@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear All,> > >> > > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> > >> > > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu,> > > Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va….(12)> > >> > > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh> > Kumar> > > Ojha.> > >> > > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and> > > Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results> > of> > > these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and> > debilitation> > > will be obtained.> > >> > > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun.> > > Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula.> > > According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results> > of> > > 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> > > Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good> > results> > > of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> > > *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this> > shloka.> > > *> > >> > > Regards> > > Neelam> > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, It is a new thing to hear..... do not know the underlying logics .....is it an isolated sloka or has some introductory slokas also ? With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji and the learned group, We have so many classics... but all incomplete and fragmanted and umpteen versions floating around. While applying the dictums given in these classics, most of the times I feel inadequately equipped. Either they don't make sense or there appears to be a missing link. There are hardly any instances when we are able to apply the yogas verbatim and see their results consistently in all cases. This probably becomes the reason for many failed predictions also. The same yoga that has shown worth in one case, fails miserably in another (here I am talking only about an intelligent application only). What do we do under such circumstances? Ignore the classic yogas and go by our experience and intuition. I am confident about the planet and rashi based derivations, which will work in all cases… but with these where do we place our classic yogas? If the yogas have been given in the classics, there must be some sense in them. May be the key is missing… they might have a rider for application? Even with a change in our Desh-kaal-patra scheme, the yogas should have a meaningful fructification!! In this context, if you all agree, I wanted to start a series of discussions, on some good classical yogas. Those which if applicable can make us predict an Obama from his chart at birth…and confidently. The way astrologers did in olden times. We can start with some wonderful yogas given in Deva Keralam. Sometimes they apply beautifully and at other times they fail miserably. What are we missing? Can we find the missing link so that we can have a sure shot application which we are confident about. Shri Patel has done monumentous work in this regard. He has taken many shlokas from DK and other classics and given their applications. With due respect to the great soul, I have these observations: Firstly, I find that the dictums may/may not apply in real cases. His sample size may be small having worked on his own and close charts most of the times. I also find that some of the DK dictums used by Sh Patel are pulled out for general applications, while they are sandwiched between specific cases dealing with particular nadiamshas. Do we fail because these dictums are given for specific cases only?Most of the works are badly translated and we do not get to the truth, so we can try with modified translations. We have many learned members in the forum, and many who are Sanskrit scholars also. Even if we are able to field-test a couple of classical shlokas and show theie application on charts, we may be more confident of their application in futre. Kindly give your comments on this, so that I can start posting the dictums one by one. It can only work if more and more members participate with examples and comments.RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Sreeram jiIt appears like and independent Shloka. The previous and next to it deal with different aspects altogether. That is why I invited comments from learned members like you.RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, The sloka appears to be against the astro_basics when seen in isolation. A planet is supposed to give results to the houses or sign or star - it is connected to. This sloka reminds me on the discovery and use of Argala concept - claimed and promoted by SJC group { Mr. Sanjay Rath is vocal on this for Sri Rao never spoke of Argala,....became a scoring point}..... going by that Argala concept..... in combination with this sloka, then One planet is enough to be responsible for all 12 Houses. Note: Argala = planets in 4,2,11 positive argala, 10,12,3 = hindering argala Then read this with Scissors Yoga, apply Nadi principles.... Going by that particular sloka you reproduced.... how do we see the effect of MD-AD-PD {maha, antar & pratyantar dasha} of planets...then considering them would mean entire family of hororscopes in ONE chart !!! I am lost on this sloka.... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji,There are many like that. I can send you and you'll become bald by pulling your hair each time!!RegardsNeelam2008/11/6 sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, The sloka appears to be against the astro_basics when seen in isolation. A planet is supposed to give results to the houses or sign or star - it is connected to. This sloka reminds me on the discovery and use of Argala concept - claimed and promoted by SJC group { Mr. Sanjay Rath is vocal on this for Sri Rao never spoke of Argala,....became a scoring point}..... going by that Argala concept..... in combination with this sloka, then One planet is enough to be responsible for all 12 Houses. Note: Argala = planets in 4,2,11 positive argala, 10,12,3 = hindering argala Then read this with Scissors Yoga, apply Nadi principles.... Going by that particular sloka you reproduced.... how do we see the effect of MD-AD-PD {maha, antar & pratyantar dasha} of planets...then considering them would mean entire family of hororscopes in ONE chart !!! I am lost on this sloka.... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji,I guess we need a serious attempt to study the efficacy of ancient dictums. We should come out of our KID-BEHAVIOUR. You feel happy when you get a chocolate and cry when you don't.Regards Neelam2008/11/6 neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Dear Sreeram ji,There are many like that. I can send you and you'll become bald by pulling your hair each time!!RegardsNeelam2008/11/6 sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, The sloka appears to be against the astro_basics when seen in isolation. A planet is supposed to give results to the houses or sign or star - it is connected to. This sloka reminds me on the discovery and use of Argala concept - claimed and promoted by SJC group { Mr. Sanjay Rath is vocal on this for Sri Rao never spoke of Argala,....became a scoring point}..... going by that Argala concept..... in combination with this sloka, then One planet is enough to be responsible for all 12 Houses. Note: Argala = planets in 4,2,11 positive argala, 10,12,3 = hindering argala Then read this with Scissors Yoga, apply Nadi principles.... Going by that particular sloka you reproduced.... how do we see the effect of MD-AD-PD {maha, antar & pratyantar dasha} of planets...then considering them would mean entire family of hororscopes in ONE chart !!! I am lost on this sloka.... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, That is why BPHS cannot be relied as a genuine output of a Sage /Seer....it is more of a compilation..... lately there are many books published or available in book market place, with those " bald by pulling your hair each time!! " slokas..... need for discretion in using those slokas..... know many depend on them for terrorising people..... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji,If you don't want a population of bald astros... I am more concerned about myself... let us start this exercise and start testing some dictums on real charts.RegardsNeelam 2008/11/6 sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 Namaste Ms. Neelam ji, That is why BPHS cannot be relied as a genuine output of a Sage /Seer....it is more of a compilation..... lately there are many books published or available in book market place, with those " bald by pulling your hair each time!! " slokas..... need for discretion in using those slokas..... know many depend on them for terrorising people..... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Neelam ji, I don't remember exactly this quote from Jatakadesha Marga. But for sure I know two things - 1) The quote you provided is full of mistakes (It is not proper Sanskrit). I will check the text and quote the sloka without mistake as given in the text. 2) The meaning you provided is possibly wrong. (It is not the way Keralites astrologers approach/use astrology) More on this tomorrow. Note: Let us get the proper quote and proper meaning before arguing too much about it.Love and regards, Sreenadh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear All,> > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu,> Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va?.(12)> > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar> Ojha.> > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and> Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of> these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation> will be obtained.> > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun.> Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula.> According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of> 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results> of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka.> *> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Sreenadh ji,Thank you for your mail. This is the whole purpose of the exercise. To get to the truth by knowing the correct quotes, with their correct meanings and more importantly correct application.Regards Neelam2008/11/6 Sreenadh <sreesog Dear Neelam ji, I don't remember exactly this quote from Jatakadesha Marga. But for sure I know two things - 1) The quote you provided is full of mistakes (It is not proper Sanskrit). I will check the text and quote the sloka without mistake as given in the text. 2) The meaning you provided is possibly wrong. (It is not the way Keralites astrologers approach/use astrology) More on this tomorrow. Note: Let us get the proper quote and proper meaning before arguing too much about it.Love and regards, Sreenadh , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: >> Dear All,> > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu, > Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va?.(12)> > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh Kumar> Ojha.> > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and > Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the results of> these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and debilitation> will be obtained.> > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of Sun. > Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in tula.> According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good results of> 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good results > of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this shloka.> *> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Namaste Ms Neelam ji, Agree....to test.... how to time the event of deb. exaltation....with respect to actual event....say a native has undergone Jupiter mahadasha, Jupiter deb. in Capricon & exaltation in Cancer = what timing in the 16 yrs....would we need to verify for the sloka application ? With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear neelam ji It is frm the book called jatakadesha maarga written by Puthumana chomathiri a famous kerala astrologer the said shloka is frm 12th para) shloka in bhava vichara prakarana it deals with how each bhava will fruitify its directions ,time ,period etc we can see in natal or prashna astrology .But to explain it we shud follow completly kerala astrological way .This way we can see how r the effects of each bhava in various dasa ,its frutifications ,wheter it is good or bad ,again wheter it is beneficial for nativ or for some other relativ etc can b ascertained and giv predictions . More on it sreenadh ji may cooment tomorrow regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Neelam ji,> I don't remember exactly this quote from Jatakadesha Marga. But for> sure I know two things -> 1) The quote you provided is full of mistakes (It is not proper> Sanskrit). I will check the text and quote the sloka without mistake as> given in the text.> 2) The meaning you provided is possibly wrong. (It is not the way> Keralites astrologers approach/use astrology)> More on this tomorrow.> Note: Let us get the proper quote and proper meaning before arguing> too much about it.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "neelam gupta"> neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> >> > This is a shloka is from Jatak Deshmarg (Bhava-vichar adhyaaya).> >> > Lagneshjanmeshwarbhavanatha yeshu sthita bheshvashyavanshkeshu,> > Tadrashijaatashch phalanti bhavastdiyaneechochhgrahodbhava va?.(12)> >> > I am giving below an explanation given in the Hindi version by Gopesh> Kumar> > Ojha.> >> > See the janam rashi and navamsha rashi taken by Lagnesh, Chandresh and> > Bhavesh (of the bhava to be considered). The native will get the> results of> > these houses or the results of their houses of exaltation and> debilitation> > will be obtained.> >> > He quotes an example, suppose Leo is the lagna and it is the MD of> Sun.> > Sun's exaltation rashi Aries is in 9H and debilitation is in 3H in> tula.> > According to this shloka, in this dasha the native will get good> results of> > 9H and inauspicious results of 3H.> > Similarly, if the Leo native gets a dasha of Moon, he will get good> results> > of 10H (Taurus) and inauspicious results for 4H which is scorpio.> > *I** invite and request learned members to share their views on this> shloka.> > *> >> > Regards> > Neelam> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Neelamji and all, Your mail is actually a eye opener and the real revelation, for all those who want to spend their life trying to search and understand shlokas, which will reveal nothing what is intended to be, on the surface. These shlokas are just like the Bhagavad Gita shlokas and one needs to have a tuned mind like Paramhansa Yoganandji, Swami Sivanandji, or Late Bhai Hanumanprasadji Poddar or Late Shri Jaydayal Goenkaji of Gita press, to understand the real content to understand the Bhagavad Gita. When Jesus says " Let the two eyes be one, Let the light shine ". He actually means that one has to meditate with the two closed eyes, in order to open the third eye in the forhead and center on the Agya chakra. Many dont understand this. Just like many dont understand the Rubaiyat of Omar Khaiyyam which is actually a total spiritual treatise. The shlokas and the basics are good for a prelimnary study, but to understand the practical utility of the same, one needs a good Guru, in the first case, and after that one needs a practise on at least 500 Horoscopes, in order to understand the essence of astrology. For me these dictums do not stand out any meaning, unless my Gurus had not taught me how to predict. And after learning these, I have no need for these dictums, it is all experience, further learning, further practise, intuition, a proper way of life, and a primary thought and will and desire to help everyone who come in contact. This is enough for one to be helpful astrologer. I dont believe in talking about good Yogas to a native , because if I tell this then the fellow will keep on waiting whole life for the Yoga to fructify without lifting a finger in helping the Yoga to manifest. If Lord Krishna had told Arjun, that tomorrow your son Abhimanyu is going to die, Arjun would have left fighting the same day, and never even allowed Abhimanyu to go to the battle field. For the Astrologer, his work is to guide, and for a native, its his duty to work hard. best wishes, Bhaskar. , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji and the learned group,> > We have so many classics... but all incomplete and fragmanted and umpteen> versions floating around.> > While applying the dictums given in these classics, most of the times I feel> inadequately equipped. Either they don't make sense or there appears to be a> missing link. There are hardly any instances when we are able to apply the> yogas verbatim and see their results consistently in all cases. This> probably becomes the reason for many failed predictions also. The same yoga> that has shown worth in one case, fails miserably in another (here I am> talking only about an intelligent application only).> > What do we do under such circumstances? Ignore the classic yogas and go by> our experience and intuition. I am confident about the planet and rashi> based derivations, which will work in all cases… but with these where do we> place our classic yogas?> > If the yogas have been given in the classics, there must be some sense in> them. May be the key is missing… they might have a rider for application?> Even with a change in our Desh-kaal-patra scheme, the yogas should have a> meaningful fructification!!> > In this context, if you all agree, I wanted to start a series of> discussions, on some good classical yogas. Those which if applicable can> make us predict an Obama from his chart at birth…and confidently. The way> astrologers did in olden times.> > We can start with some wonderful yogas given in Deva Keralam. Sometimes they> apply beautifully and at other times they fail miserably. What are we> missing? Can we find the missing link so that we can have a sure shot> application which we are confident about.> > Shri Patel has done monumentous work in this regard. He has taken many> shlokas from DK and other classics and given their applications. With due> respect to the great soul, I have these observations:> > Firstly, I find that the dictums may/may not apply in real cases. His sample> size may be small having worked on his own and close charts most of the> times.> > I also find that some of the DK dictums used by Sh Patel are pulled out for> general applications, while they are sandwiched between specific cases> dealing with particular nadiamshas. Do we fail because these dictums are> given for specific cases only?> Most of the works are badly translated and we do not get to the truth, so we> can try with modified translations.> > We have many learned members in the forum, and many who are Sanskrit> scholars also. Even if we are able to field-test a couple of classical> shlokas and show theie application on charts, we may be more confident of> their application in futre.> > Kindly give your comments on this, so that I can start posting the dictums> one by one. It can only work if more and more members participate with> examples and comments.> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Neelam ji, That was an excellent mail - an eye opener! I agree to most of the points you presented, except the suggestion for discussing the quotes of DK. I don't like that text for various reasons - without proper basic understanding none can approach such a text with a unique technical approach. Since DK is a text that stands away from the basic Arsha school of astrology (and is a text of of Nadi school), I don't think it is right to take such an integral text in parts to understand Arsha system of astrology. Studying a Nadi astrology text with an Integral approach in parts to understand Arsha astrology seems to be a faulty approach - and so I am not ready to participate in a discussion of DK if the same is undertaken with such a wrong aim. But of course I welcome your idea of presenting a good quote from some where (from some text that belongs to Arsha school of thought) and discussing the same in detail to have a clear idea about the practical application of the text and to understand the contextual importance of the quote. Our gurus use to say - "Learners should know the Prakarana"; 'Prakarana' is a Sanskrit word meaning 'Context'. What they meant was that "without knowing the context of practical application, and methodology to be applied slokas would be useless". Any astrological dictum becomes useful only when we know the "context of practical application and methodology to be applied" for that quote (sloka). This it self is the special benefit we get if we learn directly from a guru; and this itself is what we loss if we are just learning it from book (just by reading)! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji and the learned group,> > We have so many classics... but all incomplete and fragmanted and umpteen> versions floating around.> > While applying the dictums given in these classics, most of the times I feel> inadequately equipped. Either they don't make sense or there appears to be a> missing link. There are hardly any instances when we are able to apply the> yogas verbatim and see their results consistently in all cases. This> probably becomes the reason for many failed predictions also. The same yoga> that has shown worth in one case, fails miserably in another (here I am> talking only about an intelligent application only).> > What do we do under such circumstances? Ignore the classic yogas and go by> our experience and intuition. I am confident about the planet and rashi> based derivations, which will work in all cases? but with these where do we> place our classic yogas?> > If the yogas have been given in the classics, there must be some sense in> them. May be the key is missing? they might have a rider for application?> Even with a change in our Desh-kaal-patra scheme, the yogas should have a> meaningful fructification!!> > In this context, if you all agree, I wanted to start a series of> discussions, on some good classical yogas. Those which if applicable can> make us predict an Obama from his chart at birth?and confidently. The way> astrologers did in olden times.> > We can start with some wonderful yogas given in Deva Keralam. Sometimes they> apply beautifully and at other times they fail miserably. What are we> missing? Can we find the missing link so that we can have a sure shot> application which we are confident about.> > Shri Patel has done monumentous work in this regard. He has taken many> shlokas from DK and other classics and given their applications. With due> respect to the great soul, I have these observations:> > Firstly, I find that the dictums may/may not apply in real cases. His sample> size may be small having worked on his own and close charts most of the> times.> > I also find that some of the DK dictums used by Sh Patel are pulled out for> general applications, while they are sandwiched between specific cases> dealing with particular nadiamshas. Do we fail because these dictums are> given for specific cases only?> Most of the works are badly translated and we do not get to the truth, so we> can try with modified translations.> > We have many learned members in the forum, and many who are Sanskrit> scholars also. Even if we are able to field-test a couple of classical> shlokas and show theie application on charts, we may be more confident of> their application in futre.> > Kindly give your comments on this, so that I can start posting the dictums> one by one. It can only work if more and more members participate with> examples and comments.> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Dear Bhaskaran ji, Excellent explanation. God bless you in plenty. A.V.Pathi, North Carolina, 27514, USA Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:58:24 AM Re: Bhava Vichaar Dear Neelamji and all, Your mail is actually a eye opener and the real revelation, for all those who want to spend their life trying to search and understand shlokas, which will reveal nothing what is intended to be, on the surface. These shlokas are just like the Bhagavad Gita shlokas and one needs to have a tuned mind like Paramhansa Yoganandji, Swami Sivanandji, or Late Bhai Hanumanprasadji Poddar or Late Shri Jaydayal Goenkaji of Gita press, to understand the real content to understand the Bhagavad Gita. When Jesus says " Let the two eyes be one, Let the light shine ". He actually means that one has to meditate with the two closed eyes, in order to open the third eye in the forhead and center on the Agya chakra. Many dont understand this. Just like many dont understand the Rubaiyat of Omar Khaiyyam which is actually a total spiritual treatise. The shlokas and the basics are good for a prelimnary study, but to understand the practical utility of the same, one needs a good Guru, in the first case, and after that one needs a practise on at least 500 Horoscopes, in order to understand the essence of astrology. For me these dictums do not stand out any meaning, unless my Gurus had not taught me how to predict. And after learning these, I have no need for these dictums, it is all experience, further learning, further practise, intuition, a proper way of life, and a primary thought and will and desire to help everyone who come in contact. This is enough for one to be helpful astrologer. I dont believe in talking about good Yogas to a native , because if I tell this then the fellow will keep on waiting whole life for the Yoga to fructify without lifting a finger in helping the Yoga to manifest. If Lord Krishna had told Arjun, that tomorrow your son Abhimanyu is going to die, Arjun would have left fighting the same day, and never even allowed Abhimanyu to go to the battle field. For the Astrologer, his work is to guide, and for a native, its his duty to work hard. best wishes, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji and the learned group,> > We have so many classics... but all incomplete and fragmanted and umpteen> versions floating around.> > While applying the dictums given in these classics, most of the times I feel> inadequately equipped. Either they don't make sense or there appears to be a> missing link. There are hardly any instances when we are able to apply the> yogas verbatim and see their results consistently in all cases. This> probably becomes the reason for many failed predictions also. The same yoga> that has shown worth in one case, fails miserably in another (here I am> talking only about an intelligent application only).> > What do we do under such circumstances? Ignore the classic yogas and go by> our experience and intuition. I am confident about the planet and rashi> based derivations, which will work in all cases… but with these where do we> place our classic yogas?> > If the yogas have been given in the classics, there must be some sense in> them. May be the key is missing… they might have a rider for application?> Even with a change in our Desh-kaal-patra scheme, the yogas should have a> meaningful fructification! !> > In this context, if you all agree, I wanted to start a series of> discussions, on some good classical yogas. Those which if applicable can> make us predict an Obama from his chart at birth…and confidently. The way> astrologers did in olden times.> > We can start with some wonderful yogas given in Deva Keralam. Sometimes they> apply beautifully and at other times they fail miserably. What are we> missing? Can we find the missing link so that we can have a sure shot> application which we are confident about.> > Shri Patel has done monumentous work in this regard. He has taken many> shlokas from DK and other classics and given their applications. With due> respect to the great soul, I have these observations:> > Firstly, I find that the dictums may/may not apply in real cases. His sample> size may be small having worked on his own and close charts most of the> times.> > I also find that some of the DK dictums used by Sh Patel are pulled out for> general applications, while they are sandwiched between specific cases> dealing with particular nadiamshas. Do we fail because these dictums are> given for specific cases only?> Most of the works are badly translated and we do not get to the truth, so we> can try with modified translations.> > We have many learned members in the forum, and many who are Sanskrit> scholars also. Even if we are able to field-test a couple of classical> shlokas and show theie application on charts, we may be more confident of> their application in futre.> > Kindly give your comments on this, so that I can start posting the dictums> one by one. It can only work if more and more members participate with> examples and comments.> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 Namaste, Madame, Your write up had reminded me the sayings of 13th century Tamil Saintly Poet Avvaiyar in her “Aathichoodi”.Quote: “aRm ceya virumbu” has been translated as “Be desirous of doing virtue” , “iyal vadhu karavEl” has been translated as “Never stop learning” , “Uccamadhu kaivitEl” has been translated as “Don't give up perseverance” , “oppura vozhugu” has been translated as “Act virtuously” , “Katrathu Kai Mann Alavu, Kallathathu Ulagalavu" has been translated as "What you have learned is a mere handful; What you haven't learned is the size of the world". Unquote: Well suggested, an endeavor that could leave permanent well cherished marks/ impressions of your beings in the minds of the future generations. --- On Thu, 11/6/08, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:neelam gupta <neelamgupta07Re: Re: Bhava Vichaar Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 2:01 AM Dear Bhaskar ji and the learned group, We have so many classics... but all incomplete and fragmanted and umpteen versions floating around. While applying the dictums given in these classics, most of the times I feel inadequately equipped. Either they don't make sense or there appears to be a missing link. There are hardly any instances when we are able to apply the yogas verbatim and see their results consistently in all cases. This probably becomes the reason for many failed predictions also. The same yoga that has shown worth in one case, fails miserably in another (here I am talking only about an intelligent application only). What do we do under such circumstances? Ignore the classic yogas and go by our experience and intuition. I am confident about the planet and rashi based derivations, which will work in all cases… but with these where do we place our classic yogas? If the yogas have been given in the classics, there must be some sense in them. May be the key is missing… they might have a rider for application? Even with a change in our Desh-kaal-patra scheme, the yogas should have a meaningful fructification! ! In this context, if you all agree, I wanted to start a series of discussions, on some good classical yogas. Those which if applicable can make us predict an Obama from his chart at birth…and confidently. The way astrologers did in olden times. We can start with some wonderful yogas given in Deva Keralam. Sometimes they apply beautifully and at other times they fail miserably. What are we missing? Can we find the missing link so that we can have a sure shot application which we are confident about. Shri Patel has done monumentous work in this regard. He has taken many shlokas from DK and other classics and given their applications. With due respect to the great soul, I have these observations: Firstly, I find that the dictums may/may not apply in real cases. His sample size may be small having worked on his own and close charts most of the times. I also find that some of the DK dictums used by Sh Patel are pulled out for general applications, while they are sandwiched between specific cases dealing with particular nadiamshas. Do we fail because these dictums are given for specific cases only?Most of the works are badly translated and we do not get to the truth, so we can try with modified translations. We have many learned members in the forum, and many who are Sanskrit scholars also. Even if we are able to field-test a couple of classical shlokas and show theie application on charts, we may be more confident of their application in futre. Kindly give your comments on this, so that I can start posting the dictums one by one. It can only work if more and more members participate with examples and comments.RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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