Fwd: Connection of Greeks with India

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IndiaArchaeology , "radha_canada" <radha_canada wrote:IndiaArchaeology , "koenraad_elst"<koenraad.elst wrote:>> Come to mention it, the very choice of the word> Ionian/Yona/Yavana to indicate Greeks pars pro toto> may indeed stem from a situation where the Greeks> whom Indians encountered were all Ionians, not> Macedonians. Ionia was a part of the Achaemenid> empire, the rest of Greece was not, so any Greeks> resetlled to the eats of the empire would have been> Ionians. That makes it likely the word dates from> before Alexander.>This might have been also the case with Persians and the ancestors ofArabs - that is, the Greeks they first encountered were allIoninans. In Persian and Arabic, the word for Greece is Yunan(yUnAn). Also, the traditional Perso-Arabic therapeutic systemis 'Yunani' presumable because its origin was Greece.Thanks and regards,Radhakrishna Warrier--- End forwarded message ---

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IndiaArchaeology , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Shri Kishore Patnaik ji,

Namaskar!

<If we equate Mlecha with Yavanas, the difference is only being their

levels of culture along with the above meaning of Pragjyotish pura,

it is clear to logic that the main stream Indians borrowed their

ideas of Astronomy and Astrology from East rather than from Greeks.>

 

Before the advent of Greeks into India---about a century prior to

Alexander's invasions---there was absolutely no rashi-based

planetary astronomy in India, as is evident from Panchasidhantika by

Varahamihira.

 

Only the Surya Sidhanta, among all the five sidhantas, contains

details about plaentary astronomy and even those details are

absolutely baseless, useless and meaningless by even the most

primitive standards of astronomy! Those " planetary details "

could/can be of use only to " Vedic astrologers " like Varahanmihira

and his modern shishyas rather than for any astronomical

calculations!

And that work claims in an unabashed manner to be by Maya---who had

got it as a boon from Surya Bhagwan! Do you mean to say tht it was

some Hindu scholar who had resorted to that type of a lie to

propagate some good for nothing planetary astronomy?

 

Every scholar by now is aware that there are no Mesha, Vrisha etc.

rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets in the Vedas or the Vedanga

Jhyotisha! Even the much later works of around 4th/5th century BCE

like Atharva Jyotisha or the Atharva-Veda-Parishsitha also have no

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, though we find planets in those two

works! How come all the " jyotisha " works, without exception, are

silent about Rashis, if they were 'present' in Inda then?

The Mbh. also does not talk about any Mesha etc. rashi even by

mistake! What does it mean?

 

Similrly, the first " indigenous " work of predictive astrology is

Sphujidwaja's Yavana Jatakam, that has been edited in an utterly

dispassionate and scholarly manner by David Pingree, and published

by HUP in 1970. He has given all the comparative tables and

detailed all the astronomical parameters of that work vis-a-vis

Babylonian astronomy, and he has proved it " beyond all the

reasonable doubts " that that work is indebted to Babylionian

astronomy and threby astrology!

 

We have also to take into account the real Vedic and therefore

Indian cultural ethos while discussing a topic and fixing some

chronology for the same! Not only are there no rashis in the Vedas,

no astrologer has as on date pointed out to any Vedic or an

scriptural mantra that advises us to consult some soothsayer before

embarking on any plan! We did not have " Delphis " in India!

 

When we go through the dharmashastras, especially the Manusmriti,

we find an inherrent abhorence for fatalism and Bhagyavada in that

work---as if to rebuke the then miniscule " nakshtrajeevis " .

 

Bhishma-Pitamaha has advised Yudishthira in no uncertaint terms that

a nakshatra-soochi Brahmin had to be treated as a chandaala---just

contrary to Varahamihira's stand that even a mlechha has to be

treated as Rishi if he is a nakshatra-soochi!

 

I have quoted literally hundreds of instances from the Valmiki

Ramayana, the Gita and several other works which have indirectly

admonished from disclsoing the future events even if somebody can

foresee them. Then again, I have yet to get an answer from any of

the jyotishis or their supporters as to how on earth could the Hindu

jyotisha predictions in the past, till the advent of modern

astronomy into India--hardly a hundred years back---be correct when

the astronomcial parametrs used for preparing panchangas were the

most ridiculous and absurd!

Don't you think we are putting our ancestors to ridicule by saying

that they had no common sense to differentiate between the real

Uttarayana and the jyotishis' uttarayana?

Then even today, if jyotisha is the real shastra, why are all the

jyotishis still groping in darnkess about the real ayanamsha---

inpsite of having been practising " Vedic astrology " for " thosands of

years " ! They are very bad learners indeed!

 

We must also realize that astronomically, there can not be neat and

equal twelve compartments of the zodiac---whether the so called

sayana or the so called nirayana! All these rashis are therefore

imaginary, whether sayana or nirayana! And that is why the

real " Vamadevas " never talked of them---unlike their " imported

namesakes " of today! The Vedic seers talked of twelve uequal

divisions of time which they called Tapah, Tapasya etc. which they

related to four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and the two

solstices!

I, therefore, fail to udnerstand as to why we are so obsessed with

proving that predictive astrology is an indigenous product when

actually it is completely agaisnt the ethos of the Vedas, the

Upanishadas, the Smritis, the Puarnas and even the Itihasas! We are

doing a lot of disservice to the real Hinduism by trying to prove

the unprovable!

 

Even Vishnugupt Kautilya (Chanakya)has advised in his Arthashastra

that a king must go by his efforts instead of by his bhagya!

 

We have also before us the " fate " of our only (erstwhile) Hindu

neighbouir and also the " fate " of the " Hindu gopvernment " by their

depending on jyotishis instead of political strategies!

 

We must also not forget that today's Iraq is yesteryears' Babylon---

the cradle of " predictive astrology " and " astronomy " . Do these

jyotishis want India to become another " Babylon " ?

 

As pointed out hundreds of times, the " only good " that this fatal

infatuation for " Vedic astrology " has done to Hinduism is to compel

the entire Hindu community to celebrate all the festivals and

muhurtas on wrong days, as will be evident from the paper being

uploaded in the files section -- " 08-09.pdf "

 

Certainly, we do not need enemies to ruin us if we have jyotishis

to guide us and if it is they who have to prove the authenticity of

the Vedas vis-a-vis Vedic astrology!

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

 

IndiaArchaeology , " Kishore patnaik "

<kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

>

>

> Therefore the

> > ancient yavanas were not Greeks. They were eastern India. In the

> > Mahabharata times the Asuras from Pragjyotisha (ie. the earliest

place

> > where Jyotisha developed) were also called Yavanas. Narakasura,

the

> > Asura king of Pragjyotisha, was killed by Lord krishna.

Narakasura's

> > son Bhagadatta attended a Yajna of Yudhisthira at the head of his

> > yavana group.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

> Sunilji,

>

> That Amara kosa lists Mlecha desas as those lying on the East,

> specifically mentioning Kamarupa(the country of Naraka).

>

> If we equate Mlecha with Yavanas, the difference is only being

their

> levels of culture along with the above meaning of Pragjyotish

pura, it

> is clear to logic that the main stream Indians borrowed their

ideas

> of Astronomy and Astrology from East rather than from Greeks.

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---