Lal Kitab and pt .Krishan ashant

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Dear Yogaraj ji, Please refer to the following message from Sunil ji: /message/14315 That is based on the info provided in the book "Lal kitab astrology -back ground and exposition" - by pt .Krishan ashant, that I have stated the same. It is an excellent, well-written book and Pt. Krishan Ashant is one of the excellent Lal Kitab scholers as I could judge from the numerous Lal Kitab related books available in the market. I request you to go through the detailed info provided in that book to have a clear understanding about what I have written. The author Pt. Krishna Ashant seems to have done good authentic study on the origin of Lal kitab system of astrology without depending on any 'hearsay'. The 'evidences' you might be searching for you may find in this book. I sincerely appreciate the systematic way in which this book by Pt. Krishan Ashant ji is written. Love: My primary, direct, understanding of Lal Kitab and Lal Kiatab system of astrology is limited. Similar to Ramala system of astrology, Tajik system of astrology, or Jaimini system of astrology, this system is alian to me even now. What I know more about is the Ancient Arsha system of astrology that is well founded on the 7-fold approach and sticks to the roots, the basics. But I trust in my ability to distinguish good books among the trash, and as far as Lal Kitab system of astrology is concerned the book "Lal kitab astrology -back ground and exposition" - by pt .Krishan ashant was one such book.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Yogaraj Prabhakar ji,> It is good to see you here. [] I already have the info that you> are a good authority on Lal Kitab. Actually the info I provided is> based on the info provided in some good books published and available on> Lal Kitab.> I will elaborate on the same, and try to provide a detailed article on> the same in another mail. Give me 2 or 3 days.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , Yograj Prabhakar> yr_prabhakar@ wrote:> >> > Very Respected Sreenadh ji> > Namaskar> >> > Sir you have written:> >> > .....// look at the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup> Chand Joshi. This> > system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal> Pradesh (a scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who> happened to work in army.//> >> > Can you elaborate this? Because I have also heard many such similar> stories but never found any truth. Kindly do not fel offended, but as a> student of Lal Kitab I would really like to know whther you have any> concrete evidence in support of what you have said or is this a mere> hearsay?> >> > Respectfully> > Yograj Prabhakar> >> >> > --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj nirbhar@ wrote:> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj nirbhar@> > Re: Lal Kitab, Jaimini and> Parasara Schools of astrology> > > > Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:38 PM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Respected Sreenadh Ji,> >> > Origin of astrology is not known. As you said it is parampra which> >> > carried out by one generation to other.> >> > Few of the scholars amongst them break the traditions and documented> >> > these pramaparas in the shape of big Granths/Shastras. People like us> >> > started giving their names to that documented astrology system. Like> >> > Prashara, Vrahmeera, Kalyan verma, Aryabhatta,Jaimini are our vedic> >> > Scholars. Therefore their treatise are famous & termed with vedic> >> > Astrology.> >> > Similarly Many new researcher gone further in to it and did research.> >> > People give their name to their research. Like KP Padhati is given> >> > name as Pt. Krishana Murti did research and found accurate result.He> >> > documented his research and presented before the public. Similarly Pt.> >> > Sheshadri Iyer has been given credibility for his Yogi, Avyogi & > >> > Daghda rashi theory.> >> > Any thing which is different from the routine is immediately get> >> > attention by everyone. Lalkitab is a system of astrology, which is> >> > different from the normal traditional system. Whether it is based upon> >> > prampragat astrology of Himachal,Punjab, Uttaranchal or anyhwere else> >> > or It is written in urdu is immaterial and does not have any> >> > weightage. We owe to that person who do this type of work. Due credit> >> > is required to be given to the person who documented it and brought> >> > out for the public. Pt. Rup Chand Joshi Ji has the the credit for this> >> > system. Now this is not confined within Joshis of Punjab, or as you> >> > said Hills of Himachal.> >> > Similarly the credit will go to that person who amongst Nadi> >> > Astrologers & Bhrigus breaks the tradition and take that system out> >> > of confinement and bring it out well documented for public.> >> > I am not Preacher for any system of Astrology. I share what I felt> >> > during the studies of various system. As I earlier said every system> >> > is complete in itself if its rules followed in totality. Jaimini is> >> > unique as it is different from normal traditions and results are> >> > better than others. KP is unique because of its accuracy in timing of> >> > events.Ashtakvarga is unique because it is different from other and> >> > accurate too about the general behaviour of planets. Now Timing of> >> > events can also be judged accurately with it.> >> > What is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System from others? I try to share> >> > my experience. As an engineer we were taught> >> > 1. to pinpoint the defect as per symptoms> >> > 2. to take appropriate steps to rectify it accordingly.> >> > This is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System. Here one can learn how to> >> > find the exact fault and accordingly do the remedy. This is missing in> >> > other systems.> >> > Let us not go for who wrote and on which astrology it is based upon.> >> > Let us be to 'What is written'.This is more valuable to us.> >> > Best Regards> >> > Nirmal> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> >> > sreesog@ > wrote:> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Dear Nirmal ji,> >> > > The Lal Kitab System has an origin and history far beyond the> >> > life and> >> > > story of Pt. Rup Chand Joshi ji. Definitely he was from Panjab. But> >> > > just read the info he and others provides about - 'from where he got> >> > > that info; the lessons on Lal Kitab system of astrology'. Please> look at> >> > > the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup Chand Joshi.> This> >> > > system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal> >> > > Pradesh (a scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who> >> > > happened to work in army).> >> > > So the point is the system has its origin in Himachal Pradesh. Later> >> > > Pt.Joshi learned it, added some more Urdu words, elaborated it,> written> >> > > the texts in Urdu etc are all not that important. The system is and> >> > > remains to be a parampara based traditional system system originated> in> >> > > Himachal Pradesh with its related original 'Sanskrit quotes' (?) and> >> > > reference info lost.> >> > > Note: Please also note that Himachal Pradesh is a state with even> >> > some> >> > > surviving Harappan Civilizations. The state has great tradition and> >> > > history. The remoteness and inapproachability of several places in> >> > > Himachal Pradesh had helped much in keeping some ancient knowledge> >> > > treasures and traditions preserved in some remote villages of> Himachal> >> > > Pradesh till date, just like in Kerala. This is a state into which> we> >> > > should look for some possible surviving ancient works and knowledge.> >> > > Love and regards,> >> > > Sreenadh> >> > >> >> > > ar Bhardwaj" <nirbhar@> wrote:> >> > > >> >> > > > Respected Sreenadh Ji,> >> > > > Information regarding Jaimini system is new to me. Though I read> books> >> > > > written by many South Indian Astrologers on this topic but I never> >> > > > been gone to this extent about the origin of this system. I was in> >> > > > opinion that this is part of BPHS.> >> > > > Regarding Lalkitab I wish to give some detail about the origin of> This> >> > > > system.> >> > > > Joshi is a sect of brahmins in Punjab. This sect had the mastery> of of> >> > > > Palmistry. Chiero, The famous astrologer and specialist of> palmistry> >> > > > has described about this fact in his books way back in 1800 plus> >> > > > years. There is a reference of a book having redcolor binding> which is> >> > > > kept sacredly by Joshis of Punjab.> >> > > > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi, the creator/writer of Lalkitab system> belonged to> >> > > > this sect.> >> > > > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi had written five books in his life time. These> >> > > > books were published in Urdu, which was the main language at that> time> >> > > > in Punjab. These books are as below with year of publication> >> > > > 1. Samudrik ki Lalkitab-1939( popularly known as lalkitab ke> farmaan)> >> > > > this books have basic rules of Lalkitab and palmistry.> >> > > > 2. Samudrik ki Lalkitab ke Armaan-1940- This book describes basic> >> > > > rules and properties of Jyotish.> >> > > > 3. Samudrik ki Lalkitab Teesra hissa-1941- This book is known as> >> > > > Gutka(handbook) . First time Pt.Ji used poetry in this book.> >> > > > 4. Samudrik Ki Lalkitab - 1942. This book is almost combination of> >> > > > above three books in one. This book discuss all rules , remedies> in> >> > > > detail.> >> > > > 5. lalkitab-1952( Full title is "Ilam samudrik ki buniyaad per> chalne> >> > > > waley Jyotish ki madad se haath rekha ke zariye darust ke gayi> janam> >> > > > kundli se zindagi ke halaat dekhney ke liye LalKitab-1952) In> english> >> > > > Full Title translation can be " Lalkitab - 1952 to know about the> life> >> > > > with Corrected Janam Kundli done with the help of Samudrik basis"> >> > > > This book discussed the subject in full detail including remedial> >> > > > measure. Most of the Translated/translit erated books available> are of> >> > > > this version(1952) .> >> > > > These books were on the verge of becoming extinct in the due> course of> >> > > > time because of the greed of few astrologers who collected the> >> > > > original versions and put them it in there almirahs so that> general> >> > > > public and young aspirant may not get a glimpse of it. This causes> >> > > > different hearsays and stories about these books. A few amatuers> and> >> > > > some some sacred minded person like Mr. Yog Raj Prabhakar of> Patiala> >> > > > Punjab, get these copies, scanned it electronically and Put it on> the> >> > > > web for the reading of all. All astrologers can now read these> books> >> > > > on line at> >> > > > http://astrostudent s.ueuo.com/ lalkitabs. html> >> > > > These books are in Urdu Language. Person who can read urdu can> also> >> > > > get free CD if he requires.> >> > > > Some Myths about these Books:> >> > > > - these are persian Books as many words are persian.> >> > > > - These books are having origin in Persia and translated in Hindi> >> > > > These are totally base less. One can know these facts by reading> these> >> > > > books.> >> > > > These books were written in local dialact which was used at that> time> >> > > > in Punjab, and full of local phrases. Hanuman ji,Shiv ji, Durga> >> > > > Ji,BhaironJi, Vishnu and sariswati etc. are there as planet> dieties in> >> > > > this books.> >> > > > Moreover there are still many person alive who helped Pt. Rup> chand> >> > > > Joshi Ji to print these books. Pt.Ji Died in eightees.> >> > > > This is a brief about the history of lalkitab books.> >> > > > Regards> >> > > > Nirmal> >> > > >> >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> >> > > > sreesog@ wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,> >> > > > > //Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab> and> >> > > > > Jaimini.this is it...> >> > > > > Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of> Jamini> >> > > in> >> > > > > this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of> Palmistry> >> > > and> >> > > > > Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this> >> > > science.//> >> > > > > This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we> are> >> > > > > speaking about. Let us revise -> >> > > > > 1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around> >> > > > > Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not> greek)> >> > > > > system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history> and> >> > > may> >> > > > > date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life> >> > > cycles,> >> > > > > enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with> the> >> > > name> >> > > > > 'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers> mixed> >> > > > > much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently> available> >> > > BPHS> >> > > > > is such an amalgum.> >> > > > > 2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in> >> > > > > AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself> and> >> > > is> >> > > > > much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology> with> >> > > the> >> > > > > use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka,> >> > > Aruthas> >> > > > > and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional> >> > > astrology.> >> > > > > If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in> BPHS> >> > > the> >> > > > > reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by> >> > > AP/Orissa> >> > > > > astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name> 'Jaimini'> >> > > with> >> > > > > the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is> unauthentic,> >> > > since> >> > > > > the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without> much> >> > > > > connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much> >> > > > > contribution towards the predictive side. But this system> introduces> >> > > > > numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient.> The> >> > > > > current situation is that this new AP system with the so called> name> >> > > > > 'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS> and> >> > > is> >> > > > > presented especially among the north indian majority as> Parasara's> >> > > > > system!> >> > > > > 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal> >> > > > Pradesh,> >> > > > > most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based)> >> > > system> >> > > > > of astrology.> >> > > > > [i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I> will> >> > > > > complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.> >> > > > > Love and regards,> >> > > > > Sreenadh> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Nirmal> Kumar> >> > > Bhardwaj"> >> > > >> >> > >> >>