Date of Ramayana and Mahabharata

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //On the basis of the detailed astrological information on Lord Rama's birth, as given in the puranic Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text composed by Vedavyasa, it appears to me that Lord Rama's was born about 9300 years ago. // The Horoscope given in Valmiki Ramayana is true for BC 157; The detailes of discussion happened regarding that in this group can be tracked from message: /message/4292 //Further here is mention of the Ramayana events in the Mahabharata and the reverse is not seen, which proves that the Ramayana events occurred before the events of the Mahabharata.// This is NOT true. The mention of Ramayana events is present in Mahabharata and the mention of Mahabharata events are present in Ramayana. Thus based on this kind of reference we CANNOT reach any such conclusion. Love and regards,Sreenadhm, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > I agree with you in that different people have different ideas about the date of Valmiki's Ramayana, composed by the sage Valmiki. On the basis of the detailed astrological information on Lord Rama's birth, as given in the puranic Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text composed by Vedavyasa, it appears to me that Lord Rama's was born about 9300 years ago. Moreover this dating matches with the Yuga-time scale given in the Bhagawat purana and the Vishnu purana. The astro-scholar Avtar Kishen Kaulji could not understand the astronomical details given by Vedavyasa in the Adhyatma Ramayana and I had quite some arguments with him on that sometime ago. But I do not wish to go into it now as a very great detailed discussion will be required for that. Further here is mention of the Ramayana events in the Mahabharata and the reverse is not seen, which proves that the Ramayana events occurred before the events of the Mahabharata.> > Regarding the date of the Mahabharata war, as obtained from the astronomical data given by Vedavyasa it is clear to me that it took place in the 32nd century BCE. Some knowledgeable astronomers goofed up the data given by Vedavyasa. For example Vedavyasa indicated that the Saturn was in Visakha and afflicted Rohini. To me it is clear that Saturn being in Visakha can afflict Rohini but astronomers, who do not believe in astrology, have interpreted it as that the Saturn must have been in Rohini to cause the affliction. They simply refuse to believe that Vedavyasa believed in astrology and mixed astrological data along with astronomical data, in spite of the fact that Vedavyasa mentioned about the omens in in the Mahabharata.. Because of this wrong interpretation the modern astronomers of today could not find the correct date of the Mahabharata. Some of them find it difficult to believe that two eclipses can occur separated by a Kshayapaksha of 13 days .> They are also not aware that the tithi of the day is the tithi in which the Sun rises. Then some of them are not well-versed in Sanskrit. For example, in the Bhishma parva Vedavyasa gives the word "Tribhaagashesha', which actually means "Tribhaaganaam shesha bhaaga", which means the last (part) of the the three parts, but the astronomers have given various meanings to this compound word, other than what it really means. This word is very important for identifying the paksha in which Bhishma died. Then there is one very reputed astronomer who says that Bhishma-Panchaka occurred when Bhishma was in the bed of arrows, whereas to my knowledge the Bhishma-Panchaka was from Kartiki-Ekadashi to Kartiki-Purnima and as the war started on the next day after the Kartiki Purnima it is clear that the Bhishma-Panchaka could not have been when Bhishma was on the bed of arrows.> > Thus the dating of the Mahabharata war is not an easy subject and cannot be discussed here and it will require a sizable book to be written on it with all these expalanations. May be some day I shall find some time to do that.> > The great sage Vedavyasa realised that at his time the Vedas and the scriptures became so extensive that they would not survive unless these are divided into different texts as it had become impossible for an individual disciple to memorise and master all the scriptures during his twelve years of stay in the gururkula. Because of the divisions made by Vedavyasa it became possible for the disciples to memorise and master the texts he and his guru had chosen and this way the oral transmission of larger texts could continue. However from the time of Mahabharata the larger puranas and the epics were gradually written down. However the Vedas continued to be transmitted orally till a late date. > > The mail has already become too long and I wish to conclude here as this subject is very interesting and one can go on and on.> > Regards,> > Sunil K.Bhattacharjya> > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog > Monday, August 25, 2008 2:22:48 AM> Re: Yavanas (Non-Greeks; People of Ionia and NOT Macedonia)!> > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, > //As Vasishtha lived in the times of Ramayana //> I don't think that that Ramayana is an ancient text (The currently available text is possibly of AD 2nd/3rd century origin). Further there were numerous Vasishtas, since Vasishta was Guru parampara, a clan - Similar to Gargas (Gargs) and Parasaras and Kausikas. The ancient Rishi Kulas were like the Universities where the head teacher of the Kula holds the sage title (Such as Vasishta, Narada, Mandhavya, Chyevana or Ati or what ever that be). So we can not be much sure about the period of 'Vasishta' (considering as if it refers to ONLY ONE sage and lived in one period alone). > //Traditionally this is an old text of the Mahabharata times ie. composed by around 3100 BCE ie. more than 200 generations ago. //> First, what was the period of Mahabharata is one controversial question. Second, from linguistic perspective the language used in Mahabharata is pretty evolved compared to that of Vedic language - and thus the currently available Mahabharata cannot be a text of Vedic period around BCE 3100. Thirdly we need to ensure, to whom the word Vedic Period refers to (Are we referring to Sindhu-Sarasvati ppl, or specifically to Kalibengan ppl and so on), since Vedic 'culture' is not much supported by archeological evidences. > //Therefore without any valid and irrefutable proof to the contrary one should not make any such statement to contradict what the age-old tradition says, otherwise it will be considered an irresponsible action.//> I am of the opinion that we should allow criticism, because only when strong criticism is present people will search for more logical arguments, supportive evidence; it is said that those which are born in fire will not perish simple heat of sunlight. Thus let the arguments evolve with inner strength - and for that criticism is necessary, and it should be appreciated.> Love and regards,> Sreeandh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> >> > Traditionally this is an old text of the Mahabharata times ie. composed by around 3100 BCE ie. more than 200 generations ago. This also means that they must have been transcribed many times in the past but that does not reduce their antiquity. In fact the book gives an account of what happened much before the Mahabharata times and this means the facts mentioned in it are very much older than 5000 years. As Vasishtha lived in the times of Ramayana the mentioned events should have occurred around 9000 years ago. Therefore without any valid and irrefutable proof to the contrary one should not make any such statement to contradict what the age-old tradition says, otherwise it will be considered an irresponslibe action.> > > > Regards,> > > > SKB> > > > > > > > > > koenraad_elst koenraad.elst@ ...> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:35:08 AM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Yavanas (Non-Greeks; People of Ionia and NOT Macedonia)!> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > > > > > I wish to add that Xerxes, the successor of Darius-I, the great > > Archimedian emperor, did defeat the Greeks and occupy Greece. > > However that occupation was short and it lasted for one year only. It > > is believed by some that Alexander's expedition against the > > Archimedian empire was to avenge that defeat<> > > > Because Xerxes destroyed Greek temples, Alexander, who otherwise > > respected all gods and temples of all peoples, extinguished many > > Zoroastrian sacred fires in Iran.> > > > > > > > As regards the Yavanas one finds that according to the Harivamsha > > (the appendix to the Mahabharata) the Yavanas were Kshatriyas, who > > were expelled from his kingdom by the king Sagar, on the advice of > > the sage Vasishtha, as they revolted. So they were very much of > > Indian origin.> > >> > > > That's a pretty late text, early Christian centuries, when the word > > Yavana was already several centuries old and may have begun losing > > its original specific meaning. It is unclear what the said passage > > exactly refers to. If the Vedic Vasishtha is meant, then clearly > > these Yavans are not the Greeks. unless they were the Greeks of the > > Vedic era, the era of the disintegration of the PIE peoples and their > > spread from South Asia westward, who were certainly not known as > > Ionians/Yavanas yet. It is highly doubtful the tha Alexandrine Yavans > > would have remembered anything about ndian origins two millennia > > earlier. At any rate no Greek text ever refers to such memory.> > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology> > > Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:40:45 AM> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Yavanas (Non-Greeks; People of > > Ionia and NOT Macedonia)!> > > > > > Ionia was a part of the Achaemenid empire, the rest of> > > Greece was not, so any Greeks resetlled to the east of the empire> > > would have been Ionians. That makes it likely the word dates from> > > before Alexander.> > > (http://tech. groups.. com IndiaArchaeology /message/ > > 7520)> > > ====> > > > * We also know that the word 'Yavana' as per indian > > astrological sources dates back even to BC 1400!<> > > > Do we really? What source is that?> > > > > How come indian people know about Ionia and Ionians much prior to > > Greeks?! If not to the Alexandrian Greeks to whom this word refer > > to? Which culture and cultural heritage is referred to?!<> > > > Alexander was resisted by a Greek population in Afganistan. he told > > them not to sue for peace on any terms, as he was determined to kill > > them to the last; which he proceeded to do. Those were the pre-> > Alexandrine Ionians resettled by the Achaemenids since ca. 500 BC.> > > > > * They spoke the Anatolian languages are a group of extinct > > Indo-European languages, which were spoken in Asia Minor , the best > > attested of them being the Hittite language. The Anatolian branch is > > generally considered the earliest to split off the Proto-Indo-> > European language, from a stage referred to either as Indo-Hittite > > or "Middle PIE", typically a date in the mid-4th millennium BC is > > assumed. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Anatolian_ languages <> > > > Some Ionians may have been Hittites or Luwains or other non-IEs who > > adopted the newly dominant language. But in general, Ionians were > > simply Greek settles in Ionia. As Ionians, they spoke Greek, not > > Anatolian.> > > > > So in short the Yavanas are NOT Greeks, but the ancient > > people lived in Smyrna BEFORE the barbarian Alexandrian/ Macedonian > > Greeks destroyed their culture!<> > > > They are Greeks, e.g. the philosophers Thales and Herokleitos. And > > Alexander didn't destroy their culture. Some of their cities had been > > destroyed by the Persians, but generally they too left their culture > > alone.> > > > > Ionians appear in Indic literature and documents as Yavana and > > Yona.<> > > > Yes.> > > > >Prior to then, the Yavanas appear in the Vedas with reference to the > > Vedic period, which could be as early as the 2nd or 3rd millennium > > BC.<> > > > Do they really?!> > > > Thanks,> > > > KE> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //On the basis of the detailed astrological information on Lord Rama's birth, as given in the puranic Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text composed by Vedavyasa, it appears to me that Lord Rama's was born about 9300 years ago. //

The Horoscope given in Valmiki Ramayana is true for BC 157; The detailes of discussion happened regarding that in this group can be tracked from message: /message/4292

//Further here is mention of the Ramayana events in the Mahabharata and the reverse is not seen, which proves that the Ramayana events occurred before the events of the Mahabharata.// This is NOT true. The mention of Ramayana events is present in Mahabharata and the mention of Mahabharata events are present in Ramayana. Thus based on this kind of reference we CANNOT reach any such conclusion.

Love and regards,Sreenadh

 

 

The pros and cons of fixing the date of Ramayan are many.

 

First and foremost, there is no internal evidence pointing to the date of Ramayan, unlike Mahabharat.

Secondly, Mbh is a composite whole, inspite of its layered growth over several centuries, growing over the core poem Jayam. You can not say the same thing about Ramayan.

 

For eg., even the traditionalists argue vehemently that the first and last kandas were not composed by Valmiki at all.

 

The traditional evidence presented by say, the genealogies of puranas or even, the Nepalese Royal families, do not place Rama anywhere after the traditional daing of Mahabharat, leave alone the archaeological date.

 

More over, the dating of composition of Ramayan itself is controversial. It is placed any where from late vedic age to just before the modification of Mbh composition (1st c).

 

While the historicty of Rama can be easily arged based on internal evidence, it is extremely difficult to fix Sri Rama in history, as I see it.

 

best regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

 

[Guest guest]

But honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile persuits.I do not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, evn if one gets to the correct date of Lord Ramas birth

 

The historical consciousness is very much necessary, not only for obivous reasons but for its own purpose.

The westerners accuse us of lacking historical consciousness. Let us not prove them right.

 

This forum is not the right one for discussing why we should have historical consciousness.

 

Btw, Bhaskarji, when did you change to a Tamilian??

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji, //> Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a date> to Lord Ramas birth.// I agree - but I hope that we can share our opinions and understanding. //Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> Mahabharat sound sick and demeaning to our age old knowledge coming> down through traditions.// The point is not when and where Rama took birth - actually it is something impossible to prove and also since the original story might have been as old as Vedic period, we should have a reverence for this anecdote as well. But the point is 'The horoscope mentioned in ramayana is of BC 157' meaning that these quotes got interpolated into Ramayana after this period. It DOES NOT mean that Rama took birth during this period. We are speaking about a date pointed to by an interpolated sloka presented as if it refers to the horoscope of Rama (Also note that this horoscope is mentioned in ONLY the South Indian version of Ramayana and NOT in all the other 3 versions - i.e. East, West and North). Giving a fake DOB to Rama could be the work of some South Indian Crack as well due to this reason. I am NOT of the opinion that "Rama took birth AFTER Mahabharata"; but instead I am just of the opinion that the said quote interpolated into Ramayana after BC 157. // But honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile pursuits. I do> not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, even if one gets to> the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. // May be we should look into this in another perspective. Mahabharata and Ramayana are two Ancient texts available to us from our age old tradition after the Vedic period. Both of them contain bits and pieces of astrological and astronomical information. No solid effort was put forward by any to collect and analyze the astrological information presented and provided by these texts. As the seekers of ancient astrological wisdom propounded by various ancient schools of astrology (both Tropical and Nirayana) we should take active interest in collecting, organizing, scrutinizing and understanding of these astrological info in a systematic manner. Any such discussions (About birth of Rama, Death of Bishma, Verious Muhurtas mentioned, Nakshtra scheme used or what ever that be) are just part of this broader scheme of study of "Epic Astrology/Astronomy". A similar study of "Puranic Astrology" is also necessary. (At least a well organized pdf book discussing both these subjects in detail should be the final outcome as result of the combined contribution of the group members for future reference and benefit - thus I hope) This being the purpose, any major diversions should be warned by the learned members like you (similar to as you guided us now), but minor diversions should be allowed (since they are just natural). Hope I am able to present my perspective clearly. Note: I DO AGREE that the time spend for the systematic study of practical Nirayana astrology is worthier than the time spend to analyze all these Vedas, Epics, Puranas, Vedic literature etc for theoretical astrological/astronomical understanding (more or less in a historical perspective). But still believe that this second thing also serves its on purpose even though not much beneficial. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a date> to Lord Ramas birth. Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> Mahabharat sound sick and demeeaning to our age old knowledge coming> down through traditions. Tulsidasa Ramayana if referred and quoted would> naturally be much nearer to this century then the Valmiki one. This is> not astrology going on here, bust waste of precious time and energy for> those involved. Please do not mind the above written matters and do> not take offense, since I am allowed to write by the Owner/Moderator, I> have put my views here. The reader has an option to bypass this mail> just as I have the option to bypass those which I do not approve. But> honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile persuits. I do> not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, evn if one gets to> the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. regards, Bhaskaran.>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore ji, //> The pros and cons of fixing the date of Ramayan are many.> First and foremost, there is no internal evidence pointing to the date of> Ramayan, unlike Mahabharat.> Secondly, Mbh is a composite whole, inspite of its layered growth over> several centuries, growing over the core poem Jayam. You can not say the> same thing about Ramayan.// Well said! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "kishore patnaik" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote:>> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> > //On the basis of the detailed astrological information on Lord Rama's> > birth, as given in the puranic Adhyatma Ramayana, a later day text composed> > by Vedavyasa, it appears to me that Lord Rama's was born about 9300 years> > ago. //> > The Horoscope given in Valmiki Ramayana is true for BC 157; The detailes> > of discussion happened regarding that in this group can be tracked from> > message:> > /message/4292> > //Further here is mention of the Ramayana events in the Mahabharata and the> > reverse is not seen, which proves that the Ramayana events occurred before> > the events of the Mahabharata.//> > This is NOT true. The mention of Ramayana events is present in> > Mahabharata and the mention of Mahabharata events are present in Ramayana.> > Thus based on this kind of reference we CANNOT reach any such conclusion.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > The pros and cons of fixing the date of Ramayan are many.> > First and foremost, there is no internal evidence pointing to the date of> Ramayan, unlike Mahabharat.> Secondly, Mbh is a composite whole, inspite of its layered growth over> several centuries, growing over the core poem Jayam. You can not say the> same thing about Ramayan.> > For eg., even the traditionalists argue vehemently that the first and last> kandas were not composed by Valmiki at all.> > The traditional evidence presented by say, the genealogies of puranas or> even, the Nepalese Royal families, do not place Rama anywhere after the> traditional daing of Mahabharat, leave alone the archaeological date.> > More over, the dating of composition of Ramayan itself is controversial. It> is placed any where from late vedic age to just before the modification of> Mbh composition (1st c).> > While the historicty of Rama can be easily arged based on internal evidence,> it is extremely difficult to fix Sri Rama in history, as I see it.> > best regards,> > Kishore patnaik>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

You are becoming better day by day. That reply was so well written. On a closer look, and observation, let me be more honest with you especially since you are also taking pains in the rendering of data , regularly to us members.

For a believer, and a keen observer into astrological enquiry, both the Ramayana and the Mahabharata as well as the Srimad Bhagvata Purana, have enough pointers to give us the hierarchy of all the Rishi Munis we have heard of, important Stellar configurations on the date of major events in those times, as well as some knowledge of the astrological practises in vogue , in that era.

Its upto us to locate these, from this epics, compile them, and believe in them and co-relate with the mathematical astronomical data now available with us through technological advance.

Whenever I come across any such pointers, I will put them here for you and the readers, and believe me I am not against such threads or exchange of informations, but when it comes down to two parties beginning to gather heat, then I get scared for I really dont wish the good members of this group to get on either side of the fence , at least on such issue like the Birth date of Lord Rama which is no easy to verify or authenticate..

Please do not miind my intrusion and continue exchanging notes, but as a responsible person I know which you are very much, I request that whenever you feel that any trouble is going to start brewing, then please diplomatically put the thread to a close or suspension for some time.

I love these great epics,their characters and any talks connected with them, but when i see my fellow men getting engaged with each other a bit strongly and vehemently, then only I put my opinion as I did last, otherwise I do not.

Yes I once again appreciate the ever expanding broad outlook I am noticing in you since last few months, which is ready to embrace all, irrespective of their negatives or past status.

Love and regards,

Bhaskaran.

 

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> //> Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> > equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a date> > to Lord Ramas birth.//> I agree - but I hope that we can share our opinions and> understanding.> //Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> > Mahabharat sound sick and demeaning to our age old knowledge coming> > down through traditions.//> The point is not when and where Rama took birth - actually it is> something impossible to prove and also since the original story might> have been as old as Vedic period, we should have a reverence for this> anecdote as well. But the point is 'The horoscope mentioned in ramayana> is of BC 157' meaning that these quotes got interpolated into Ramayana> after this period. It DOES NOT mean that Rama took birth during this> period. We are speaking about a date pointed to by an interpolated> sloka presented as if it refers to the horoscope of Rama (Also note that> this horoscope is mentioned in ONLY the South Indian version of Ramayana> and NOT in all the other 3 versions - i.e. East, West and North). Giving> a fake DOB to Rama could be the work of some South Indian Crack as well> due to this reason.> I am NOT of the opinion that "Rama took birth AFTER Mahabharata"; but> instead I am just of the opinion that the said quote interpolated into> Ramayana after BC 157.> // But honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile pursuits.> I do> > not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, even if one gets> to> > the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. //> May be we should look into this in another perspective. Mahabharata> and Ramayana are two Ancient texts available to us from our age old> tradition after the Vedic period. Both of them contain bits and pieces> of astrological and astronomical information. No solid effort was put> forward by any to collect and analyze the astrological information> presented and provided by these texts. As the seekers of ancient> astrological wisdom propounded by various ancient schools of astrology> (both Tropical and Nirayana) we should take active interest in> collecting, organizing, scrutinizing and understanding of these> astrological info in a systematic manner. Any such discussions (About> birth of Rama, Death of Bishma, Verious Muhurtas mentioned, Nakshtra> scheme used or what ever that be) are just part of this broader scheme> of study of "Epic Astrology/Astronomy". A similar study of "Puranic> Astrology" is also necessary. (At least a well organized pdf book> discussing both these subjects in detail should be the final outcome as> result of the combined contribution of the group members for future> reference and benefit - thus I hope)> This being the purpose, any major diversions should be warned by the> learned members like you (similar to as you guided us now), but minor> diversions should be allowed (since they are just natural). Hope I am> able to present my perspective clearly.> Note: I DO AGREE that the time spend for the systematic study of> practical Nirayana astrology is worthier than the time spend to analyze> all these Vedas, Epics, Puranas, Vedic literature etc for theoretical> astrological/astronomical understanding (more or less in a historical> perspective). But still believe that this second thing also serves its> on purpose even though not much beneficial.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "Bhaskar"> rajiventerprises@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> > equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a date> > to Lord Ramas birth. Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> > Mahabharat sound sick and demeeaning to our age old knowledge coming> > down through traditions. Tulsidasa Ramayana if referred and quoted> would> > naturally be much nearer to this century then the Valmiki one. This is> > not astrology going on here, bust waste of precious time and energy> for> > those involved. Please do not mind the above written matters and do> > not take offense, since I am allowed to write by the Owner/Moderator,> I> > have put my views here. The reader has an option to bypass this mail> > just as I have the option to bypass those which I do not approve. But> > honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile persuits. I do> > not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, evn if one gets to> > the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. regards, Bhaskaran.> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore ji, //> The historical consciousness is very much necessary, not only for obivous> reasons but for its own purpose. The westerners accuse us of lacking historical > consciousness. Let us not prove them right.// True! I Agree. //> This forum is not the right one for discussing why we should have historical> consciousness.// True - but an occational diversion, if informative will not be a problem. (Can we expect a good write-up about the same from you?). Any way since you have a for the discussion of Indian histroy we would love to discuss such subjects there as well. //> Btw, Bhaskarji, when did you change to a Tamilian?? :)// Oh!!!! What you are referrring to? Code language in play or what?! Why? Which words in Bhaskar ji's message make you comment so? I was just wonder struck with this off the track (sounding regionalistic) comment. ! Hope it is not crudly intentional (aimed at Bhaskar ji) but would be just a friendly passing comment. Beware I would be in Bhaskar ji's side in any such contraversy... Love and regards,Sreenadh , "kishore patnaik" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote:>> > But honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile persuits.> > I do not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, evn if one gets to> > the correct date of Lord Ramas birth> > > The historical consciousness is very much necessary, not only for obivous> reasons but for its own purpose.> The westerners accuse us of lacking historical consciousness. Let us not> prove them right.> > This forum is not the right one for discussing why we should have historical> consciousness.> > Btw, Bhaskarji, when did you change to a Tamilian?? > > regards,> > Kishore patnaik>

[Guest guest]

Oh!!!! What you are referrring to? Code language in play or what?! Why? Which words in Bhaskar ji's message make you comment so? I was just wonder struck with this off the track (sounding regionalistic) comment. ! Hope it is not crudly intentional (aimed at Bhaskar ji) but would be just a friendly passing comment. Beware I would be in Bhaskar ji's side in any such contraversy...

Love and regards,Sreenadh

 

 

Dear Shri nadh,

 

I expect you and Bhaskar to be on my side in this contoversy. Bhaskar has signed as Bhaskaran.

 

Kishore patnaik

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishoreji ,

You bear the name of my Guru - Kishore Kumar the Singer. I understood in you first post what you meant when you spoke about Tamilian ...

Anyways........

Eveyr man looks forward for upayes and means and ideas to improve his

fortune, destiny, present and future. All chestas ( Efforts) for each of us fall in this direction some way or the other, consciously or unconsciousl. I am no different. I just got some inspiration that I must change my name from " Bhaskar" to "Bhaskaran" as the numerological result was not appealling in the former, for future. Numbers too play a very important part of astrology, as I predict only with numbers in astrology and am succesful to a great extent to the satisfaction of my clients and contacts. Numerology without the touch of astroloy, by itself is the mother of all sciences, and I have my experience of 30 years to confirm this. Many of the times I have seen the same set of numbers

playing part in my Life, and more often than not, when this happens,

one cannot call it a coincidence. Same I have noticed on mundane affairs and on rest of my family members.

 

Thus I have changed my name in Jyotishfield the way you read it.

I do not personally like being called Bhaskaran, and prefer

Bhaskar, but one cannot live as per his likings if one has to effect

appropriate positive changes.

 

I am no where connected to Tamilians or Tamil language,in my

day to day affairs, except that I love all South India and the sweet tone of the south Indians when they talk. The humbleness in them makes me think twice about my own dialect and dialouge throws.

 

But You noticed this a little late..........

But better late than never...................

 

You can call me with whatever name you prefer Bhaskar or Bhaskaran. I will just see your affections and not what you address me as.

 

best wishes,

Bhaskaran.

 

 

, "kishore patnaik" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote:>> >> > > >> > >> > Oh!!!! What you are referrring to? Code language in play or what?! Why?> > Which words in Bhaskar ji's message make you comment so? I was just wonder> > struck with this off the track (sounding regionalistic) comment. ! Hope it> > is not crudly intentional (aimed at Bhaskar ji) but would be just a friendly> > passing comment. Beware I would be in Bhaskar ji's side in any such> > contraversy...> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > Dear Shri nadh,> > I expect you and Bhaskar to be on my side in this contoversy. Bhaskar has> signed as Bhaskaran. > > Kishore patnaik>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji, //> > You are becoming better day by day. That reply was so well written. On a> closer look, and observation, let me be more honest with you especially> since you are also taking pains in the rendering of data , regularly to> us members.// Thanks. :)//> For a believer, and a keen observer into astrological enquiry, both the> Ramayana and the Mahabharata as well as the Srimad Bhagvata Purana, have> enough pointers to give us the hierarchy of all the Rishi Munis we have> heard of, important Stellar configurations on the date of major events> in those times, as well as some knowledge of the astrological practises> in vogue , in that era.> > Its upto us to locate these, from this epics, compile them, and believe> in them and co-relate with the mathematical astronomical data now> available with us through technological advance.// True!//> Whenever I come across any such pointers, I will put them here for you> and the readers// Great! We hope to see regular supply of such information from you and avaiting for the same. //, and believe me I am not against such threads or> exchange of informations, but when it comes down to two parties> beginning to gather heat, then I get scared for I really dont wish the> good members of this group to get on either side of the fence , at least> on such issue like the Birth date of Lord Rama which is no easy to> verify or authenticate..// True and I agree .//> Please do not miind my intrusion and continue exchanging notes, but as a> responsible person I know which you are very much, I request that> whenever you feel that any trouble is going to start brewing, then> please diplomatically put the thread to a close or suspension for some> time.// That is an excellent suggestion, and I believe that is what we have done in the past, I believe - the responsible members and the moderators does not have any other option in such situations! So I agree, and ensure you that we all together will abide by this suggestion. //> I love these great epics,their characters and any talks connected with> them, but when i see my fellow men getting engaged with each other a bit> strongly and vehemently, then only I put my opinion as I did last,> otherwise I do not.// I agree - and you are absolutly right. //> Yes I once again appreciate the ever expanding broad outlook I am> noticing in you since last few months, which is ready to embrace all,> irrespective of their negatives or past status.// Again - thanks and hugs.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadhji,> > You are becoming better day by day. That reply was so well written. On a> closer look, and observation, let me be more honest with you especially> since you are also taking pains in the rendering of data , regularly to> us members.> > For a believer, and a keen observer into astrological enquiry, both the> Ramayana and the Mahabharata as well as the Srimad Bhagvata Purana, have> enough pointers to give us the hierarchy of all the Rishi Munis we have> heard of, important Stellar configurations on the date of major events> in those times, as well as some knowledge of the astrological practises> in vogue , in that era.> > Its upto us to locate these, from this epics, compile them, and believe> in them and co-relate with the mathematical astronomical data now> available with us through technological advance.> > Whenever I come across any such pointers, I will put them here for you> and the readers, and believe me I am not against such threads or> exchange of informations, but when it comes down to two parties> beginning to gather heat, then I get scared for I really dont wish the> good members of this group to get on either side of the fence , at least> on such issue like the Birth date of Lord Rama which is no easy to> verify or authenticate..> > Please do not miind my intrusion and continue exchanging notes, but as a> responsible person I know which you are very much, I request that> whenever you feel that any trouble is going to start brewing, then> please diplomatically put the thread to a close or suspension for some> time.> > I love these great epics,their characters and any talks connected with> them, but when i see my fellow men getting engaged with each other a bit> strongly and vehemently, then only I put my opinion as I did last,> otherwise I do not.> > Yes I once again appreciate the ever expanding broad outlook I am> noticing in you since last few months, which is ready to embrace all,> irrespective of their negatives or past status.> > Love and regards,> > Bhaskaran.> > > > > > > , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > //> Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> > > equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a> date> > > to Lord Ramas birth.//> > I agree - but I hope that we can share our opinions and> > understanding.> > //Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> > > Mahabharat sound sick and demeaning to our age old knowledge coming> > > down through traditions.//> > The point is not when and where Rama took birth - actually it is> > something impossible to prove and also since the original story might> > have been as old as Vedic period, we should have a reverence for this> > anecdote as well. But the point is 'The horoscope mentioned in> ramayana> > is of BC 157' meaning that these quotes got interpolated into Ramayana> > after this period. It DOES NOT mean that Rama took birth during this> > period. We are speaking about a date pointed to by an interpolated> > sloka presented as if it refers to the horoscope of Rama (Also note> that> > this horoscope is mentioned in ONLY the South Indian version of> Ramayana> > and NOT in all the other 3 versions - i.e. East, West and North).> Giving> > a fake DOB to Rama could be the work of some South Indian Crack as> well> > due to this reason.> > I am NOT of the opinion that "Rama took birth AFTER Mahabharata"; but> > instead I am just of the opinion that the said quote interpolated into> > Ramayana after BC 157.> > // But honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile> pursuits.> > I do> > > not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, even if one gets> > to> > > the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. //> > May be we should look into this in another perspective. Mahabharata> > and Ramayana are two Ancient texts available to us from our age old> > tradition after the Vedic period. Both of them contain bits and pieces> > of astrological and astronomical information. No solid effort was put> > forward by any to collect and analyze the astrological information> > presented and provided by these texts. As the seekers of ancient> > astrological wisdom propounded by various ancient schools of astrology> > (both Tropical and Nirayana) we should take active interest in> > collecting, organizing, scrutinizing and understanding of these> > astrological info in a systematic manner. Any such discussions (About> > birth of Rama, Death of Bishma, Verious Muhurtas mentioned, Nakshtra> > scheme used or what ever that be) are just part of this broader scheme> > of study of "Epic Astrology/Astronomy". A similar study of "Puranic> > Astrology" is also necessary. (At least a well organized pdf book> > discussing both these subjects in detail should be the final outcome> as> > result of the combined contribution of the group members for future> > reference and benefit - thus I hope)> > This being the purpose, any major diversions should be warned by the> > learned members like you (similar to as you guided us now), but minor> > diversions should be allowed (since they are just natural). Hope I am> > able to present my perspective clearly.> > Note: I DO AGREE that the time spend for the systematic study of> > practical Nirayana astrology is worthier than the time spend to> analyze> > all these Vedas, Epics, Puranas, Vedic literature etc for theoretical> > astrological/astronomical understanding (more or less in a historical> > perspective). But still believe that this second thing also serves its> > on purpose even though not much beneficial.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > , "Bhaskar"> > rajiventerprises@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear all, I do not mean to be rude the least, but none of us are> > > equipped academically or historically or astrologically, to put a> date> > > to Lord Ramas birth. Suggestions of Lord Rama having been born after> > > Mahabharat sound sick and demeeaning to our age old knowledge coming> > > down through traditions. Tulsidasa Ramayana if referred and quoted> > would> > > naturally be much nearer to this century then the Valmiki one. This> is> > > not astrology going on here, bust waste of precious time and energy> > for> > > those involved. Please do not mind the above written matters and do> > > not take offense, since I am allowed to write by the> Owner/Moderator,> > I> > > have put my views here. The reader has an option to bypass this mail> > > just as I have the option to bypass those which I do not approve.> But> > > honestly we must be spending our energies in worthwhile persuits. I> do> > > not understand what purpose would be solved anyway, evn if one gets> to> > > the correct date of Lord Ramas birth. regards, Bhaskaran.> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskaran ji, Well said! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear Kishoreji ,> > You bear the name of my Guru - Kishore Kumar the Singer. I understood in> you first post what you meant when you spoke about Tamilian ...> > Anyways........> Eveyr man looks forward for upayes and means and ideas to improve his> fortune, destiny, present and future. All chestas ( Efforts) for each of> us fall in this direction some way or the other, consciously or> unconsciousl. I am no different. I just got some inspiration that I> must change my name from " Bhaskar" to "Bhaskaran" as the numerological> result was not appealling in the former, for future. Numbers too play a> very important part of astrology, as I predict only with numbers in> astrology and am succesful to a great extent to the satisfaction of my> clients and contacts. Numerology without the touch of astroloy, by> itself is the mother of all sciences, and I have my experience of 30> years to confirm this. Many of the times I have seen the same set of> numbers playing part in my Life, and more often than not, when this> happens, one cannot call it a coincidence. Same I have noticed on> mundane affairs and on rest of my family members. Thus I have changed> my name in Jyotishfield the way you read it. I do not personally like> being called Bhaskaran, and prefer Bhaskar, but one cannot live as per> his likings if one has to effect appropriate positive changes. I am> no where connected to Tamilians or Tamil language,in my day to day> affairs, except that I love all South India and the sweet tone of the> south Indians when they talk. The humbleness in them makes me think> twice about my own dialect and dialouge throws. But You noticed this> a little late.......... But better late than never................... > You can call me with whatever name you prefer Bhaskar or Bhaskaran. I> will just see your affections and not what you address me as. best> wishes, Bhaskaran.> > > > > > , "kishore patnaik"> kishorepatnaik09@ wrote:> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > Oh!!!! What you are referrring to? Code language in play or what?!> Why?> > > Which words in Bhaskar ji's message make you comment so? I was just> wonder> > > struck with this off the track (sounding regionalistic) comment. !> Hope it> > > is not crudly intentional (aimed at Bhaskar ji) but would be just a> friendly> > > passing comment. Beware I would be in Bhaskar ji's side in any> such> > > contraversy...> > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> >> >> >> > Dear Shri nadh,> >> > I expect you and Bhaskar to be on my side in this contoversy. Bhaskar> has> > signed as Bhaskaran. > >> > Kishore patnaik> >>