History of the concept of Longitude and Latitude

[Guest guest]

hare ramakrishna

dear sreendh ji

Thanks ,very nice informativ thought provoking article

 

regrds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear All,> I was just searching about the history of - the concept 'Longitude and> Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is totally> NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo Vespucci> and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness about> this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding of> the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!!> Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in> Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to "prior to BC 5th century")> Longitude is termed "Lambamsa" and Latitude is termed "Akshamsa". We see> that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words> "Charardha-Desandara" was also of popular use in astronomical> literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th> century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two> specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient Siddhantas> (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and> presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use> these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the> concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India!> It seems that we should improve our understanding about the history of> origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and> geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that it> is ascribed with!> Love and regards,> Sreenadh>

[Guest guest]

Dear All, Please correct and read the statement "whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th century BC" as "whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th century AD".Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:Dear All, I was just searching about the history of - the concept 'Longitude and Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is totally NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo Vespucci and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness about this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding of the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!! Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to "prior to BC 5th century") Longitude is termed "Lambamsa" and Latitude is termed "Akshamsa". We see that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words "Charardha-Desandara" was also of popular use in astronomical literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient Siddhantas (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India! It seems that we should improve our understanding about the history of origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that it is ascribed with! Love and regards,Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Hello Sreenadh and All...

 

I have enjoyed the posts here for some time and today this one in

particular prompted me to respond. Whereas I certainly agree that " as

far as the history of astronomical and geographical concepts are

concerned, India deserves more credit " ...than it has received, I am

not sure of the accuracy of your statement that the geographical

coordinate system is relatively new to the Western world. From what I

have read, Ptolemy, who was an influential astronomer and geographer

in the 2nd century AD in Alexandria, Egypt, treated this topic in

depth. He not only expanded on ancient ideas about geography and

astronomy, but also propounded his own more " modern " theories, and he

actually wrote quite a bit about latitude and longitude. However, much

of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages.

 

Best,

Juliana S.

Kamuela, Hawaii

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

>

> Dear All,

> I was just searching about the history of - the concept

'Longitude and

> Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is totally

> NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo Vespucci

> and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness about

> this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding of

> the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!!

> Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in

> Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to " prior to BC 5th century " )

> Longitude is termed " Lambamsa " and Latitude is termed " Akshamsa " . We see

> that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words

> " Charardha-Desandara " was also of popular use in astronomical

> literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th

> century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two

> specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient Siddhantas

> (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and

> presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use

> these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the

> concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India!

> It seems that we should improve our understanding about the

history of

> origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and

> geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that it

> is ascribed with!

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh, That was a good bit of information. Thanks are due to you. Many of the Indian authors even, distort the Sanskrit names based on the region they hail from, apart from using translations which often may not convey the meaning of the Sanskrit word entirely. Hence I would request you to give actual Sanskrit words for frequently used astrological/ astronomical terms.

Regards,UdupaOn Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear All, I was just searching about the history of - the concept 'Longitude and Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is totally NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo Vespucci and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness about this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding of the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!!

Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to " prior to BC 5th century " ) Longitude is termed " Lambamsa " and Latitude is termed " Akshamsa " . We see that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words " Charardha-Desandara " was also of popular use in astronomical literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient Siddhantas (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India!

It seems that we should improve our understanding about the history of origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that it is ascribed with!

Love and regards,Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Juliana ji, // Ptolemy, who was an influential astronomer and geographerin the 2nd century AD in Alexandria, Egypt, treated this topic in> depth. // Could be - but we need to check what he said and what not; What was his understanding (and limitation of knowledge) about this subject and what is that is special in Indian understanding. What we need to ponder is who, when and where this system might have originated, and who all might have contributed to enriching this system. For example - In numerous ancient indian texts we can find the words such as 'Desantara" (distance between longitudes) or Charardha (referring to the major latitude lines), but in Surya sidddhanta we find the words "Lambamsa" (meaning, Vertical lines; refers to longitude) and "Akshamsa" (meaning axial or horizontal lines; referring to Latitude). This clear use of terminology indicates that the full fledged system of Longitude-Latitude was in place by the time of Surya Siddhanta. It is also important to note that during that time, the Longitudinal line passing through Ujjain (a city near Rajastan-MP state border in Central India) was considered as Prime Meridian. The Equatorial line was supposed to pass through 4 vertical cardinal points named Lanka (Near current Srilanka), Siddhapura, Ketumala (Near current Guatimala near America), Romaka. The astronomical methods for calculating Lambamsa-Akshamsa or Charardha-Desantara must have been well known. (I need to do some study to get correct understanding). I request you to quote the info and statements Ptolemy provide about this concept of Longitude-Latitude (if available). The following statement of yours put me in doubt -//He not only expanded on ancient ideas about geography and> astronomy, but also propounded his own more "modern" theories, and he> actually wrote quite a bit about latitude and longitude. However, much> of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages.// Do you mean to say that Ptolemy’s statements on Longitude-Latitude are available or not? If it is not available and also reference to it is not available (seems to be so from your statement - However, much of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages) how you assume that "Ptolemy, treated this topic in depth". I hope some of his statements on the same would be available, otherwise how can you say so?! So let us look for the same, if it is available. Let us look into this subject based on the available info, whether from east or from west. Note: I made a typo in my previous mail. The text Surya Siddhanta (as available today) is not yet dated, and any info that helps to date this text is not available in it. This text was in existance prior to 5th century (since Mihira of 5th century AD quotes it) for sure. So please read the line "even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to 'prior to BC 5th century')" as "even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to 'prior to AD 5th century')". Ancient Surya siddhanta is a very old text and astronomical tradition; it cannot be dated correctly in the absense of datable info not being provided by text. The statement 'this text dates PRIOR to 5th century AD' does not in any way mean that it originated in 3rd or 4th century. It could be a tradition which a much ancient history. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "jai.ma" <jai.ma wrote:>> Hello Sreenadh and All...> > I have enjoyed the posts here for some time and today this one in> particular prompted me to respond. Whereas I certainly agree that "as> far as the history of astronomical and geographical concepts are> concerned, India deserves more credit"...than it has received, I am> not sure of the accuracy of your statement that the geographical> coordinate system is relatively new to the Western world. From what I> have read, Ptolemy, who was an influential astronomer and geographer> in the 2nd century AD in Alexandria, Egypt, treated this topic in> depth. He not only expanded on ancient ideas about geography and> astronomy, but also propounded his own more "modern" theories, and he> actually wrote quite a bit about latitude and longitude. However, much> of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages.> > Best,> Juliana S.> Kamuela, Hawaii> > , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear All,> > I was just searching about the history of - the concept> 'Longitude and> > Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is totally> > NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo Vespucci> > and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness about> > this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding of> > the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!!> > Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in> > Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to "prior to BC 5th century")> > Longitude is termed "Lambamsa" and Latitude is termed "Akshamsa". We see> > that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words> > "Charardha-Desandara" was also of popular use in astronomical> > literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th> > century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two> > specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient Siddhantas> > (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and> > presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use> > these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the> > concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India!> > It seems that we should improve our understanding about the> history of> > origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and> > geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that it> > is ascribed with!> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear All, Juliana ji provided me with the following info about Ptolemy's contribution to the concept of Latitude and Longitude. =============Hi Sreenadh....I am not a historian but these links may offer someillumination on the topic of Ptolemy and his work with Geography:http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/vatican.exhibit/exhibit/d-mathematics/Ptolemy_geo.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographia (Ptolemy)Best,Juliana============= Both the links are interesting and informative. It definitely seems that Ptolemy must have dome some work on the subject. But the following lines definitely raise our eyebrows as well - //Ptolemy, who gave Greek astronomy its final form in the second

century A.D., did the same--and more--for geography and

cartography. His massive work on the subject, which summed up

and criticized the work of earlier writers, offered instruction

in laying out maps by three different methods of projection,

provided coordinates for some eight thousand places, and treated

such basic concepts as geographical latitude and longitude. In

Byzantium, in the thirteenth century, Ptolemic maps were

reconstructed and attached to Greek manuscripts of the text. And

in the fifteenth century, a Latin translation of this text, with

maps, proved a sensation in the world of the book. A best seller

both in the age of luxurious manuscripts and in that of print,

Ptolemy's "Geography" became immensely influential. Columbus--

one of its many readers--found inspiration in Ptolemy's

exaggerated value for the size of Asia for his own fateful

journey to the west.

// * If Ptolemy's work done in 2nd century AD was 'available' then why it got reconstructed in 13th century?!! * If Ptolemy's text 'was not available' how some one assumed that it lists the Lat-Long (?) of 8000 Places? Definitely a lost book of 2nd century AD getting re-constructed in getting presented to the world much later in 13th century is really sensational - or was it not? Is not there a possibility of a fraud involved? The wikipedia link provides the info that - * //Arabic writer al-Mas'udi, while writing around 956, mentioned a colored map of the Geography which had 4530 cities and over 200 mountains. // It is interesting the even the 10th century Arabic writer finds only 4530 cities in the MAP and NOT the possibly exagirated number 8000 places. Further the point to be noted is that it was a MAP and NOT a list of cities with their longitude and latitudes. * Now comming to the Longitude-Latitude concept the wikipedia link states as follows - //He assigned coordinates to all the places and geographic features he knew, in a grid that spanned the globe. Latitude was measured from the equator, as it is today, but Ptolemy preferred to express it as the length of the longest day rather than degrees of arc (the length of the midsummer day increases from 12h to 24h as one goes from the equator to the polar circle). He put the meridian of 0 longitude at the most western land he knew, the Canary Islands. // Please note the point - "but Ptolemy preferred to express it as the length of the longest day rather than degrees of arc". Then was it really the concpet of Longitude-Latitude itself or something else? Any way the follow info about his prime meridian is interesting - //He put the meridian of 0 longitude at the most western land he knew, the Canary Islands.// * Around BC 300 Alexander came to India. This interaction with India must have enriched the understanding of Greeks about ancient indian knowledge and Indians about the Greek Knowledge. Is it not possible that Ptolemy was expressing this Ancient Indian knowledege on Latitude-Longitude he acquired from ancient indian texts? [in the India-Greece knowledge transaction due to Paitagorase's visit to India and Alaxander's attack - Greece seems to be rather on the recieving end as far as knowledge transaction is concered] Some points to ponder. (Some may argue that every knowledge came from East to West, some may argue that every knowledge came from West to east - both speak half truths, or half lies!) Any way, let other members comment in support of or against and let our understanding about knowledge and histroy improve! The following links also could be interest while discussing this subject - * Ptolomy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy * History of Geodesy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy Thanks to Juliana ji for providing the info. OK. I should not forget to provide a link to the text (i.e. Ptolemy's Geography as it is available now). 1) Ptolemy's Geography: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/_Texts/Ptolemy/home.html 2) Aubrey Diller's edition of Ptolemy's Geography (provided by the International Journal of Scientific History) : http://www.dioi.org/diller8/diller8.htm Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Juliana ji,> // Ptolemy, who was an influential astronomer and geographer> in the 2nd century AD in Alexandria, Egypt, treated this topic in> > depth. //> Could be - but we need to check what he said and what not; What was> his understanding (and limitation of knowledge) about this subject and> what is that is special in Indian understanding. What we need to> ponder is who, when and where this system might have originated, and who> all might have contributed to enriching this system.> For example - In numerous ancient indian texts we can find the words> such as 'Desantara" (distance between longitudes) or Charardha> (referring to the major latitude lines), but in Surya sidddhanta we find> the words "Lambamsa" (meaning, Vertical lines; refers to longitude) and> "Akshamsa" (meaning axial or horizontal lines; referring to Latitude). > This clear use of terminology indicates that the full fledged system of> Longitude-Latitude was in place by the time of Surya Siddhanta. It is> also important to note that during that time, the Longitudinal line> passing through Ujjain (a city near Rajastan-MP state border in Central> India) was considered as Prime Meridian. The Equatorial line was> supposed to pass through 4 vertical cardinal points named Lanka (Near> current Srilanka), Siddhapura, Ketumala (Near current Guatimala near> America), Romaka.> The astronomical methods for calculating Lambamsa-Akshamsa or> Charardha-Desantara must have been well known. (I need to do some study> to get correct understanding).> I request you to quote the info and statements Ptolemy provide about> this concept of Longitude-Latitude (if available). The following> statement of yours put me in doubt -> //He not only expanded on ancient ideas about geography and> > astronomy, but also propounded his own more "modern" theories, and he> > actually wrote quite a bit about latitude and longitude. However, much> > of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages.//> Do you mean to say that Ptolemy’s statements on> Longitude-Latitude are available or not? If it is not available and also> reference to it is not available (seems to be so from your statement -> However, much of this material probably went into hiding during the> Dark Ages) how you assume that "Ptolemy, treated this topic in depth". I> hope some of his statements on the same would be available, otherwise> how can you say so?! So let us look for the same, if it is available.> Let us look into this subject based on the available info, whether> from east or from west.> > Note: I made a typo in my previous mail. The text Surya Siddhanta (as> available today) is not yet dated, and any info that helps to date this> text is not available in it. This text was in existance prior to 5th> century (since Mihira of 5th century AD quotes it) for sure. So please> read the line "even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to> 'prior to BC 5th century')" as "even in Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which> dates back to 'prior to AD 5th century')". Ancient Surya siddhanta is a> very old text and astronomical tradition; it cannot be dated correctly> in the absense of datable info not being provided by text. The> statement 'this text dates PRIOR to 5th century AD' does not in any way> mean that it originated in 3rd or 4th century. It could be a tradition> which a much ancient history.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "jai.ma" jai.ma@> wrote:> >> > Hello Sreenadh and All...> >> > I have enjoyed the posts here for some time and today this one in> > particular prompted me to respond. Whereas I certainly agree that "as> > far as the history of astronomical and geographical concepts are> > concerned, India deserves more credit"...than it has received, I am> > not sure of the accuracy of your statement that the geographical> > coordinate system is relatively new to the Western world. From what I> > have read, Ptolemy, who was an influential astronomer and geographer> > in the 2nd century AD in Alexandria, Egypt, treated this topic in> > depth. He not only expanded on ancient ideas about geography and> > astronomy, but also propounded his own more "modern" theories, and he> > actually wrote quite a bit about latitude and longitude. However, much> > of this material probably went into hiding during the Dark Ages.> >> > Best,> > Juliana S.> > Kamuela, Hawaii> >> > , "Sreenadh"> > sreesog@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear All,> > > I was just searching about the history of - the concept> > 'Longitude and> > > Latitude'. I was wonder struck on knowing that this concpet is> totally> > > NEW to the western world and that prior to 15th century Amerigo> Vespucci> > > and 17th century Galileo and Halley they didn't had much awareness> about> > > this concept - and also that even by this period their understanding> of> > > the Longitude-Latitude co-ordinate system was very limited!!!> > > Looking back to Indian astronomical history we find that, even in> > > Ancient Surya Siddhanta (which dates back to "prior to BC 5th> century")> > > Longitude is termed "Lambamsa" and Latitude is termed "Akshamsa". We> see> > > that similar to the words Akshamsa-Lambamsa; the words> > > "Charardha-Desandara" was also of popular use in astronomical> > > literature- whether the author be Aryabhata or Varaha Mihira of 6th> > > century BC. Desandara menas the distance (difference) between two> > > specific longitudes; the distance between two places. Ancient> Siddhantas> > > (astronomical texts), and Puranas (ancient texts with collects and> > > presents ancient knowledge in the form of story telling) mention/use> > > these words to refer to locations. It becomes well evident that the> > > concept of Longitude-Latitude originated in India!> > > It seems that we should improve our understanding about the> > history of> > > origin of this concept - as far as the history of astronomical and> > > geographical concepts are concerned India deserves more credit that> it> > > is ascribed with!> > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

I normally do not enter your threads because the information you impart is too much for me to handle, argue, or talk about, since I find myself very tiny in face of the vast flowing knowledge you are supplying here, so I just take it in bits and ruminate on same. I also like and appreciate the tremendous work you are doing here to providing interesting links and write ups, which I wish you could upload ( Your write ups )in a single folder, so that as and when someone like me has spare time, he can go there and enjoy the same.

 

Now You mentioned -

 

// Is it not possible that Ptolemy was expressing this Ancient Indian knowledege on Latitude-Longitude he acquired from ancient indian texts?//

 

Yes this is possible. It cannot be discounted and neither be confirmed after this long passage of time, behind him. Apollonius Tyanaeus, a Greek thinker and traveler of the 1st Century AD wrote that " In India the first references to astronomy are tobe found in the Rig Veda which is dated around 2000 BC. Vedic Aryans in fact defined the Sun, Stars, Planets and Comets ". This proves tha th Greeks about that period of time knew about the Indian knowledge of astronomy.

 

Before Ptolemy a greek Poet Aratus in 270 BC, had also written a poem called " Phenomena " which mentioned about constellations . But his description do not include any of them near the South celestial Pole because that area of the sky was below the Horizon. The area they could not see was the area uncharted and no constellations recorded. From the size of the area uncharted by them, it can be determined that actually those ancients who recorded the constellations lived near a latitude 36 degrees North-South of Greece , North of Egypt, but similiar to the latitude of the ancient Babylonians and Sumerians. The uncharted area is a place where the south ceelstial Pole would have been around the year 2000 BC after taking the precession in account.

 

In Ancient times the Aryans were living at the North Pole and during night they observed the sky throughout the year. For 6 monthsof the year there was day ( Brahmas day ) and for another 6 months there was night ( Prajapatis night ). One day of theirs (of 24Hours ) was equal to one year of ours. It took one nakshatra 1000 years to come to the horizon. The scene was a continous whirling of the dome. Therefore for the 27 nakshatras it took 27000 years.

 

Later on, due to freezing climatic conditions, the Aryans moved from the North Pole to more comfortable habitats. Some of them settled in Central Asia, others moved to Europe via Greece, the seed of European civilisation , while others moved to India through Afghanistan.

 

So now you know how the Indian influence of astrology is felt all over the world, including Greece.

 

I would also like to detail the findings of the ancient Aryans when they lived near the North pole, but not today.

 

Dear Sreenadhji, do not pull me in any discussions as I am not knowledgable or resourceful like you in matters of history, so spare me please. haha. I am no match for you in these matters.

 

best wishes,

Love and regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskaran ji, That was a good write-up. Thanks. //Later on, due to freezing climatic conditions, the> Aryans moved from the North Pole to more comfortable habitats. Some of> them settled in Central Asia, others moved to Europe via Greece, the> seed of European civilization , while others moved to India through> Afghanistan. So now you know how the Indian influence of astrology is> felt all over the world, including Greece.// Even though this might be true about the Aryans, there seems to be a possibility of other and better civilizations inhibiting the earth at the same time itself like Sindu-Sarasvati, Crete, Meso-American, Mesopotamian etc - they does not seems to be of Aryan tribe, cult, beliefs at all. I agree to your statement, of Aryans migrating to India from Central Asia through various roots and they them selves migrating to Europe, Greek and Iran. But it should also be accepted that during that time, better civilized civilizations where inhibiting this very same lands whether it be Sindu-Sarasvati, Crete, Mesopotamian or Meso-American. (Dravidian civilization seems to be of some what later origin having its roots in Mesopotamian civilization)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadhji,> I normally do not enter your threads because the information you impart> is too much for me to handle, argue, or talk about, since I find myself> very tiny in face of the vast flowing knowledge you are supplying here,> so I just take it in bits and ruminate on same. I also like and> appreciate the tremendous work you are doing here to providing> interesting links and write ups, which I wish you could upload ( Your> write ups )in a single folder, so that as and when someone like me has> spare time, he can go there and enjoy the same. Now You mentioned -> // Is it not possible that Ptolemy was expressing this Ancient Indian> knowledege on Latitude-Longitude he acquired from ancient indian> texts?// Yes this is possible. It cannot be discounted and neither be> confirmed after this long passage of time, behind him. Apollonius> Tyanaeus, a Greek thinker and traveler of the 1st Century AD wrote that> " In India the first references to astronomy are tobe found in the Rig> Veda which is dated around 2000 BC. Vedic Aryans in fact defined the> Sun, Stars, Planets and Comets ". This proves tha th Greeks about that> period of time knew about the Indian knowledge of astronomy. Before> Ptolemy a greek Poet Aratus in 270 BC, had also written a poem called "> Phenomena " which mentioned about constellations . But his description> do not include any of them near the South celestial Pole because that> area of the sky was below the Horizon. The area they could not see was> the area uncharted and no constellations recorded. From the size of the> area uncharted by them, it can be determined that actually those> ancients who recorded the constellations lived near a latitude 36> degrees North-South of Greece , North of Egypt, but similiar to the> latitude of the ancient Babylonians and Sumerians. The uncharted area is> a place where the south ceelstial Pole would have been around the year> 2000 BC after taking the precession in account. In Ancient times the> Aryans were living at the North Pole and during night they observed the> sky throughout the year. For 6 monthsof the year there was day (> Brahmas day ) and for another 6 months there was night ( Prajapatis> night ). One day of theirs (of 24Hours ) was equal to one year of ours.> It took one nakshatra 1000 years to come to the horizon. The scene was a> continous whirling of the dome. Therefore for the 27 nakshatras it took> 27000 years. Later on, due to freezing climatic conditions, the> Aryans moved from the North Pole to more comfortable habitats. Some of> them settled in Central Asia, others moved to Europe via Greece, the> seed of European civilisation , while others moved to India through> Afghanistan. So now you know how the Indian influence of astrology is> felt all over the world, including Greece. I would also like to> detail the findings of the ancient Aryans when they lived near the North> pole, but not today. Dear Sreenadhji, do not pull me in any> discussions as I am not knowledgable or resourceful like you in matters> of history, so spare me please. haha. I am no match for you in these> matters. best wishes, Love and regards, Bhaskar.>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

// But it should also be accepted that during that time, better civilized civilizations where inhibiting this very same lands whether it be Sindu-Sarasvati, Crete, Mesopotamian or Meso-American. //

Of course, the above acceptance goes without saying. There were many other great civilisations, which cannot be discounted, by any fair chance.

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear Bhaskaran ji,> That was a good write-up. Thanks.> //Later on, due to freezing climatic conditions, the> > Aryans moved from the North Pole to more comfortable habitats. Some of> > them settled in Central Asia, others moved to Europe via Greece, the> > seed of European civilization , while others moved to India through> > Afghanistan. So now you know how the Indian influence of astrology is> > felt all over the world, including Greece.//> Even though this might be true about the Aryans, there seems to be a> possibility of other and better civilizations inhibiting the earth at> the same time itself like Sindu-Sarasvati, Crete, Meso-American,> Mesopotamian etc - they does not seems to be of Aryan tribe, cult,> beliefs at all. I agree to your statement, of Aryans migrating to India> from Central Asia through various roots and they them selves migrating> to Europe, Greek and Iran. But it should also be accepted that during> that time, better civilized civilizations where inhibiting this very> same lands whether it be Sindu-Sarasvati, Crete, Mesopotamian or> Meso-American. (Dravidian civilization seems to be of some what later> origin having its roots in Mesopotamian civilization)> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "Bhaskar"> rajiventerprises@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,> > I normally do not enter your threads because the information you> impart> > is too much for me to handle, argue, or talk about, since I find> myself> > very tiny in face of the vast flowing knowledge you are supplying> here,> > so I just take it in bits and ruminate on same. I also like and> > appreciate the tremendous work you are doing here to providing> > interesting links and write ups, which I wish you could upload ( Your> > write ups )in a single folder, so that as and when someone like me has> > spare time, he can go there and enjoy the same. Now You mentioned -> > // Is it not possible that Ptolemy was expressing this Ancient Indian> > knowledege on Latitude-Longitude he acquired from ancient indian> > texts?// Yes this is possible. It cannot be discounted and neither be> > confirmed after this long passage of time, behind him. Apollonius> > Tyanaeus, a Greek thinker and traveler of the 1st Century AD wrote> that> > " In India the first references to astronomy are tobe found in the Rig> > Veda which is dated around 2000 BC. Vedic Aryans in fact defined the> > Sun, Stars, Planets and Comets ". This proves tha th Greeks about that> > period of time knew about the Indian knowledge of astronomy. Before> > Ptolemy a greek Poet Aratus in 270 BC, had also written a poem called> "> > Phenomena " which mentioned about constellations . But his description> > do not include any of them near the South celestial Pole because that> > area of the sky was below the Horizon. The area they could not see was> > the area uncharted and no constellations recorded. From the size of> the> > area uncharted by them, it can be determined that actually those> > ancients who recorded the constellations lived near a latitude 36> > degrees North-South of Greece , North of Egypt, but similiar to the> > latitude of the ancient Babylonians and Sumerians. The uncharted area> is> > a place where the south ceelstial Pole would have been around the year> > 2000 BC after taking the precession in account. In Ancient times the> > Aryans were living at the North Pole and during night they observed> the> > sky throughout the year. For 6 monthsof the year there was day (> > Brahmas day ) and for another 6 months there was night ( Prajapatis> > night ). One day of theirs (of 24Hours ) was equal to one year of> ours.> > It took one nakshatra 1000 years to come to the horizon. The scene was> a> > continous whirling of the dome. Therefore for the 27 nakshatras it> took> > 27000 years. Later on, due to freezing climatic conditions, the> > Aryans moved from the North Pole to more comfortable habitats. Some of> > them settled in Central Asia, others moved to Europe via Greece, the> > seed of European civilisation , while others moved to India through> > Afghanistan. So now you know how the Indian influence of astrology is> > felt all over the world, including Greece. I would also like to> > detail the findings of the ancient Aryans when they lived near the> North> > pole, but not today. Dear Sreenadhji, do not pull me in any> > discussions as I am not knowledgable or resourceful like you in> matters> > of history, so spare me please. haha. I am no match for you in these> > matters. best wishes, Love and regards, Bhaskar.> >>