Lal Kitab, Jaimini and Parasara Schools of astrology

September 19, 2008

Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,

//Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and

Jaimini.this is it...

Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in

this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and

Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this science.//

This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we are

speaking about. Let us revise -

1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around

Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not greek)

system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history and may

date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life cycles,

enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with the name

'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers mixed

much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently available BPHS

is such an amalgum.

2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in

AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself and is

much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology with the

use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka, Aruthas

and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional astrology.

If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in BPHS the

reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by AP/Orissa

astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name 'Jaimini' with

the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is unauthentic, since

the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without much

connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much

contribution towards the predictive side. But this system introduces

numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient. The

current situation is that this new AP system with the so called name

'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS and is

presented especially among the north indian majority as Parasara's

system!

3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal Pradesh,

most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based) system

of astrology.

[i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I will

complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

<nirbhar wrote:

>

> Respected Shobhana Ji,

> I am a kid as far as Lalkitab is concerned. There is not any bad

> intention of mine in asking the question. I try to remove your doubts

> about this system as far asmy little knowledge is concerned

>

> '//Lal Kitab system is fairly advanced and many people do not

understand

> it // "

>

> I agree to the extent that the most people donot understand it but

this

> is fairly simple to understandprovided be read in original form.

Reading

> Translations/transliterations may not prove much fruitful.

>

> " //The reson is is their lack of understanding of Parashara and

> Jaimini... " //

>

> My opinion is different.

>

> " // had U understood the basics U would have never asked about basic

> ages and period of planets... If you are not understanding it , I

> suggest U abondon it and refresh your fundamantals of Parashara and

> Jaimini..Lala Kitaab can be understood only then...the system is not

> meant for road side astrologers as being practiced today by many.. Lal

> Kitaab System is very advanced.....Only people have a mastery over

> Parasara and Jaimini both can take a full grip of it.... " //

>

> My opinion is different. I feel it is " Hawaii Khyaal " of most of the

> astrologers.I dont think your sugestion suits me. Just informal

> understanding of astronomy and traditional astrology serve the

purpose.

>

> " //The Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has just

> finished her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of

> Saturn. " //

> There is no mention of use of this age in the interpretit ion. what do

> the mercury age and saturn age did or do to the native. Before asking

> this question i was in the opinion that this age factor might be given

> in some other system and it might be useful for me if to know that

> system.

>

> From your mail I can judge you have not well versed with Lalkitab. Had

> you be, then you have not dropped Lalkitab in your interpretition by

> just mentioning the above rule.

> " //If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and Jaimini.this

> is it... " //

> My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in this

system.

> This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and Samudrik

is

> and additional beneficial in understanding this science.

> Dear Shobhana Ji, I am a student of astrology. I always gain too much

> from your discussions.

> In my opinion every system of astrology is perfact in itself. In

> interpretions one should try to stick to analyze with one system only

> and apply rules. Using multiple system in one interpretitions may

cause

> confusions in the mind of students like me.

> Thanks for replying.

>

> Regards

> Nirmal

>

> , " Shobhana "

> shobhana_ms@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear NK bhardwaj Ji.

> >

> > from you posts I fully understand what you are studying and talking

> > about...

> >

> > Lala Kitab sytem is fairly advanced and many people do not

understand

> > it .....

> >

> > The reson is is their lack of understanding of Parashara and

> > Jaimini...

> >

> > Lala Kitaab is the finest amalgamation of the two and some

others....

> >

> > had U understood the basics U would have never asked about basic

ages

> > and period of planets... If you are not understanding it , I suggest

> > U abondon it and refresh your fundamantals of Parashara and

Jaimini..

> >

> > Lala Kitaab can be understood only then...the system is not meant

for

> > road side astrologers as being practiced today by many.. Lal Kitaab

> > System is very advanced.....Only people have a mastery over Parasara

> > and Jaimini both can take a full grip of it....

> >

> > Example....

> >

> > Graha Gyaraha jo ghar men Hoye. Taasir shani wo hota hai

> > Asar magar Ghar Usmen Jaata Bhrihaspati Jahan Jo hota Hai....

> >

> > What a beautifull and fundamantal principles...

> >

> > Planets in the eleventh house have or despaly the natural tendencies

> > of the Saturn as per the placement of Saturn in the

horoscope...those

> > provide results as per the palacement of Saturn ...however the

> > effects are to be considred in the house or for the Karakatwa of

> > Jupiter or as per palcement of Jupiter....

> >

> > Nothing to beat such unfalaible principles... Parashari pundits

> > deride that and make a of mockery of it without understanding it and

> > without realisisng how potent astrological weapon this Lal Kitab can

> > be...

> >

> > If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and Jaimini...

> > this is it...

> >

> > I challange any one who says it is not... ?????

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > In , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

> > <nirbhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Shobhana Ji,

> > > A nice and comprehensive analysis of the native's life indeed. It

> > is

> > > a good example for the students like me to follow.

> > >

> > > " //The Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has

> > just

> > > finished her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of

> > > Saturn. " //

> > > I feel oblige if some light be thrown upon the method of

> > calculating

> > > the age factor with respect to Mercury & Saturn.

> > > Regards

> > > Nirmal

> > > , " Shobhana "

> > > <shobhana_ms@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sreenaadha Ji,

> > > >

> > > > Om Namo Narayana

> > > >

> > > > With the above prayer I venture into an analysis of the

> > horoscope.

> > > The

> > > > Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has just

> > > finished

> > > > her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of

Saturn.

> > > >

> > > > From the first look of the horoscope, there is No alpaayu. For

the

> > > > native as six out of nine planets are in Panaphar, Venus, Venus

> > Moon

> > > > occupies kandra and there is nothing in Apoklima. The clear cut

> > out

> > > come

> > > > is minimum Madhyamaayu. Lord of Lagna, Jupiter also aspects the

> > > lagna.

> > > > Inspite of Mercury, the lord of Seventh house, exchanging sign

> > with

> > > Mars

> > > > which has become a Maraka, due to that and other reasons, would

> > > make her

> > > > attempt on her life from 27 to 34 years of age, there does not

> > > appear to

> > > > Alpaayu. The triad of PAM, as per Jaimini method, it indicated

> > > > madhyamaayu of lower bracket.

> > > >

> > > > Let us now see the Marakas. Lord of the Seventh is Mercury and

> > lord

> > > of

> > > > the second is Saturn. Mercury has shunned the reponsibility by

> > > exchange

> > > > of sign with fifth lord Mars. Mars otherwise is key planet for

the

> > > > ascendent bu being in 7th, aspecting 2nd, having establish

> > realion

> > > with

> > > > lord of the seventh and 10th, aspecting 10th also, being lord of

> > > 12th,

> > > > it has become a top class maraka. Saturn being lord of 2nd,

> > > aspecting

> > > > second, aspecting 10th and aspecting lord of 7th also has become

a

> > > > Marka. So we have to deal with two marakas and a strong

> > trishadaya

> > > lord

> > > > Venus located in the fourth.

> > > >

> > > > For an attempt of suicide, connection between the eight, the

> > > lagna or

> > > > minimum the third and the eight is necessary. Third is self,

> > > > subcounsciousness, self effort, courage, attempt and is Karaka

> > for

> > > life

> > > > being eight of eight. Somehow, if there is connection between

the

> > > > fourth, the eight and twelvth withe eighth, it makes a

possibility

> > > > stronger. The lords of the third of Kalpurusha chart, that is

> > > mercury

> > > > and its Karak mars also play importnat roles in making one carry

> > out

> > > > attemts on ones life.

> > > >

> > > > Lord of Lagna and lord of the fourth house here are aspected by

> > > lord of

> > > > the third house Saturn. Let us also see which planets are nerest

> > to

> > > the

> > > > Mrityu Bhaga, Rahu and Mercury happen to be closet to the Mrityu

> > > bhaga

> > > > in the Rasi.

> > > >

> > > > The lord of 22nd drekkana is Jupiter occupying lagana in D-3

> > chart.

> > > Lord

> > > > of the 64th Navamsa from Lagna is Satuen and from the Moon is

> > Venus.

> > > >

> > > > One has to metally weak or giveup and undergo tremendious

> > physical

> > > odds

> > > > to think of ending one life. In the chart Saturn and Mars are

> > > troturing

> > > > the Moon.

> > > >

> > > > What is problem with this chart.

> > > >

> > > > The biggest peblem of this chart is two fold:

> > > >

> > > > Two malefics afflicting Merucury and Nantural Putra karaka

> > Jupiter

> > > in

> > > > the fifth house.

> > > >

> > > > Fifth house, Jupiter under heavy affliction.

> > > >

> > > > Mercury under heavy affliction

> > > >

> > > > And biggest problem, Saturn aspecting Sun.

> > > >

> > > > I am afraid the main problem emantes from the fifth house,

> > children,

> > > > income of the spouse, his useles friends and lack of

comaptibilty.

> > > >

> > > > The denager is not to the life of the native but to her

marriage.

> > > It is

> > > > on rocks, either mishaps intervene otr the courts. I see a big

> > > trouble

> > > > for the marriage. lord of fifth in seveth is also saying /

> > > indicating

> > > > the third angle. It would be fifficult to work out for the

> > suvival

> > > of

> > > > the marriage. Attempts though should be made. Lord of the lagna

> > is

> > > with

> > > > the lord of the seveth house but in inimical fashion. Sun in

> > > between can

> > > > obly brig bondage. but Ketu is satating that child / son may the

> > > issue.

> > > > If she has corpluent she needs to reduce the wight. If she

thinks

> > > her

> > > > work and office is end all she needs to change her attidue.

> > > >

> > > > Presently she is undergoing Vimshottary dasa of Jup / Me. Their

> > > ralation

> > > > has been explained above. Mercury is under pressure of Jup

Saturn

> > > and

> > > > Ketu. Ju is lord of 22nd Drekkana.

> > > >

> > > > In yogini, dasa is of Rahu / Dhanaya (Shankata/ Jupiter) Rahu is

> > > > occupying Jupter astar. bothe signifying 22 dreshkonna and

> > problems

> > > > induced by the love affairs ( 5th house) of the Jupiter (lagan

> > > lord ) or

> > > > due to lack of son more likely to be later.

> > > >

> > > > Now I will try and finally clinch the issue. She is undergoing,

> > > Cancer /

> > > > Cancer Rasi dasa period. Perfect Cancer. Cancer is the eight

rasi

> > > from

> > > > her Lagna, that makes her try an attempyt on the life as satuns

> > the

> > > GK

> > > > occupies the Rasi. Cancer also happens to house Paran pada. No

> > other

> > > > palnet aspects it. Problems of the family, work, office and

> > partner

> > > > (love) mount as the Rasi and Satuen aspct A7, A8, A10 and A4 are

> > > > associated with Cn Rasi by aspect. This was a real attempt. She

> > > needs to

> > > > be care full as Dasa Chdra of this Rasi (8th from ascendant)

> > will

> > > go on

> > > > upto Apr 2009. This a double GK dasa and really dangerious.

> > > >

> > > > Next Dasa will be very good and smooth. If the realtion survives

> > I

> > > am

> > > > not sure due to heavy afflictions.

> > > >

> > > > Upaya, if so desired, will to be discussed with the native only.

> > > >

> > > > Regards.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 19, 2008

Respected Sreenadh Ji,

Information regarding Jaimini system is new to me. Though I read books

written by many South Indian Astrologers on this topic but I never

been gone to this extent about the origin of this system. I was in

opinion that this is part of BPHS.

Regarding Lalkitab I wish to give some detail about the origin of This

system.

Joshi is a sect of brahmins in Punjab. This sect had the mastery of of

Palmistry. Chiero, The famous astrologer and specialist of palmistry

has described about this fact in his books way back in 1800 plus

years. There is a reference of a book having redcolor binding which is

kept sacredly by Joshis of Punjab.

Pt. Rup Chand Joshi, the creator/writer of Lalkitab system belonged to

this sect.

Pt. Rup Chand Joshi had written five books in his life time. These

books were published in Urdu, which was the main language at that time

in Punjab. These books are as below with year of publication

1. Samudrik ki Lalkitab-1939(popularly known as lalkitab ke farmaan)

this books have basic rules of Lalkitab and palmistry.

2. Samudrik ki Lalkitab ke Armaan-1940- This book describes basic

rules and properties of Jyotish.

3. Samudrik ki Lalkitab Teesra hissa-1941- This book is known as

Gutka(handbook). First time Pt.Ji used poetry in this book.

4. Samudrik Ki Lalkitab - 1942. This book is almost combination of

above three books in one. This book discuss all rules , remedies in

detail.

5. lalkitab-1952(Full title is " Ilam samudrik ki buniyaad per chalne

waley Jyotish ki madad se haath rekha ke zariye darust ke gayi janam

kundli se zindagi ke halaat dekhney ke liye LalKitab-1952)In english

Full Title translation can be " Lalkitab - 1952 to know about the life

with Corrected Janam Kundli done with the help of Samudrik basis "

This book discussed the subject in full detail including remedial

measure. Most of the Translated/transliterated books available are of

this version(1952).

These books were on the verge of becoming extinct in the due course of

time because of the greed of few astrologers who collected the

original versions and put them it in there almirahs so that general

public and young aspirant may not get a glimpse of it. This causes

different hearsays and stories about these books. A few amatuers and

some some sacred minded person like Mr. Yog Raj Prabhakar of Patiala

Punjab, get these copies, scanned it electronically and Put it on the

web for the reading of all. All astrologers can now read these books

on line at

http://.ueuo.com/lalkitabs.html

These books are in Urdu Language. Person who can read urdu can also

get free CD if he requires.

Some Myths about these Books:

- these are persian Books as many words are persian.

- These books are having origin in Persia and translated in Hindi

These are totally base less. One can know these facts by reading these

books.

These books were written in local dialact which was used at that time

in Punjab, and full of local phrases. Hanuman ji,Shiv ji, Durga

Ji,BhaironJi, Vishnu and sariswati etc. are there as planet dieties in

this books.

Moreover there are still many person alive who helped Pt. Rup chand

Joshi Ji to print these books. Pt.Ji Died in eightees.

This is a brief about the history of lalkitab books.

Regards

Nirmal

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,

> //Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and

> Jaimini.this is it...

> Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in

> this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and

> Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this science.//

> This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we are

> speaking about. Let us revise -

> 1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around

> Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not greek)

> system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history and may

> date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life cycles,

> enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with the name

> 'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers mixed

> much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently available BPHS

> is such an amalgum.

> 2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in

> AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself and is

> much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology with the

> use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka, Aruthas

> and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional astrology.

> If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in BPHS the

> reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by AP/Orissa

> astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name 'Jaimini' with

> the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is unauthentic, since

> the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without much

> connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much

> contribution towards the predictive side. But this system introduces

> numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient. The

> current situation is that this new AP system with the so called name

> 'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS and is

> presented especially among the north indian majority as Parasara's

> system!

> 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal

Pradesh,

> most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based) system

> of astrology.

> [i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I will

> complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

September 22, 2008

Dear Nirmal ji, The Lal Kitab System has an origin and history far beyond the life and story of Pt. Rup Chand Joshi ji. Definitely he was from Panjab. But just read the info he and others provides about - 'from where he got that info; the lessons on Lal Kitab system of astrology'. Please look at the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup Chand Joshi. This system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal Pradesh (a scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who happened to work in army). So the point is the system has its origin in Himachal Pradesh. Later Pt.Joshi learned it, added some more Urdu words, elaborated it, written the texts in Urdu etc are all not that important. The system is and remains to be a parampara based traditional system system originated in Himachal Pradesh with its related original 'Sanskrit quotes' (?) and reference info lost. Note: Please also note that Himachal Pradesh is a state with even some surviving Harappan Civilizations. The state has great tradition and history. The remoteness and inapproachability of several places in Himachal Pradesh had helped much in keeping some ancient knowledge treasures and traditions preserved in some remote villages of Himachal Pradesh till date, just like in Kerala. This is a state into which we should look for some possible surviving ancient works and knowledge. Love and regards,Sreenadhar Bhardwaj" <nirbhar wrote:>> Respected Sreenadh Ji,> Information regarding Jaimini system is new to me. Though I read books> written by many South Indian Astrologers on this topic but I never> been gone to this extent about the origin of this system. I was in> opinion that this is part of BPHS. > Regarding Lalkitab I wish to give some detail about the origin of This> system.> Joshi is a sect of brahmins in Punjab. This sect had the mastery of of> Palmistry. Chiero, The famous astrologer and specialist of palmistry> has described about this fact in his books way back in 1800 plus> years. There is a reference of a book having redcolor binding which is> kept sacredly by Joshis of Punjab. > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi, the creator/writer of Lalkitab system belonged to> this sect. > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi had written five books in his life time. These> books were published in Urdu, which was the main language at that time> in Punjab. These books are as below with year of publication > 1. Samudrik ki Lalkitab-1939(popularly known as lalkitab ke farmaan)> this books have basic rules of Lalkitab and palmistry. > 2. Samudrik ki Lalkitab ke Armaan-1940- This book describes basic> rules and properties of Jyotish.> 3. Samudrik ki Lalkitab Teesra hissa-1941- This book is known as> Gutka(handbook). First time Pt.Ji used poetry in this book.> 4. Samudrik Ki Lalkitab - 1942. This book is almost combination of> above three books in one. This book discuss all rules , remedies in> detail.> 5. lalkitab-1952(Full title is "Ilam samudrik ki buniyaad per chalne> waley Jyotish ki madad se haath rekha ke zariye darust ke gayi janam> kundli se zindagi ke halaat dekhney ke liye LalKitab-1952)In english> Full Title translation can be " Lalkitab - 1952 to know about the life> with Corrected Janam Kundli done with the help of Samudrik basis"> This book discussed the subject in full detail including remedial> measure. Most of the Translated/transliterated books available are of> this version(1952).> These books were on the verge of becoming extinct in the due course of> time because of the greed of few astrologers who collected the> original versions and put them it in there almirahs so that general> public and young aspirant may not get a glimpse of it. This causes> different hearsays and stories about these books. A few amatuers and> some some sacred minded person like Mr. Yog Raj Prabhakar of Patiala> Punjab, get these copies, scanned it electronically and Put it on the> web for the reading of all. All astrologers can now read these books> on line at > http://.ueuo.com/lalkitabs.html> These books are in Urdu Language. Person who can read urdu can also> get free CD if he requires. > Some Myths about these Books:> - these are persian Books as many words are persian. > - These books are having origin in Persia and translated in Hindi> These are totally base less. One can know these facts by reading these> books.> These books were written in local dialact which was used at that time> in Punjab, and full of local phrases. Hanuman ji,Shiv ji, Durga> Ji,BhaironJi, Vishnu and sariswati etc. are there as planet dieties in> this books. > Moreover there are still many person alive who helped Pt. Rup chand> Joshi Ji to print these books. Pt.Ji Died in eightees.> This is a brief about the history of lalkitab books.> Regards> Nirmal> > , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,> > //Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and> > Jaimini.this is it...> > Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in> > this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and> > Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this science.//> > This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we are> > speaking about. Let us revise -> > 1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around> > Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not greek)> > system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history and may> > date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life cycles,> > enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with the name> > 'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers mixed> > much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently available BPHS> > is such an amalgum.> > 2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in> > AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself and is> > much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology with the> > use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka, Aruthas> > and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional astrology.> > If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in BPHS the> > reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by AP/Orissa> > astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name 'Jaimini' with> > the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is unauthentic, since> > the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without much> > connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much> > contribution towards the predictive side. But this system introduces> > numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient. The> > current situation is that this new AP system with the so called name> > 'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS and is> > presented especially among the north indian majority as Parasara's> > system!> > 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal> Pradesh,> > most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based) system> > of astrology.> > [i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I will> > complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj">

September 22, 2008

Dear All, OK. I will continue my mail. 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal Pradesh,most possibly an independent branch traditional (parampara based) systemof astrology. This system is more in tune with Arsha school of astrology than the so called Jaimini system and has the following advantages and disadvantages. Advantages: * The system sprigs from a solid basic understanding of astrological foundations and has much in common with the traditional Arsha system (Arsha school of astrology). * This system is an a Paramapara based (traditional) and systematic extension of the the ancient school of indian astrology, the arsha school. Disadvantages: * The original quotes (possibly Sanskrit) and the original book references related to this system is lost. (This system is available to us as taught by a soldier with Himachal Pradesh origin with this traditional knowledge, teaching the system to his reporting heads in simplified form avoiding all the quotes and references, in plane prose) * The system in its current presentation gives too much (to an extend of fanatic) importance to remedies which degrades the original quality, purity and importance of the system. It is the north indian fake astrologers behind 'upaya' who is mainly after this degradation. * The system is presented in Urdu language, as if it is of Muslim/Arabic/Persian origin or as if it is some non-Hindu system. This is a totally wrong concept. The fact is that Astrology is and should not be presented as it is part of some religion, cult or language - where it be Muslim, Hindu, Urdu, Arabic or Persian. Knowledge is universal and so is an astrological system. Since the currently available 'Lal Kitab System' is the rudiments of an ancient traditional knowledge branch or school of astrology, a useful and strong off shoot of ancient arsha school of astrology, the regional special contribution that came from Himachal Pradesh, a lot of work remains to be done (like in all such other fragments of astro knowledge) to clarify the logical foundations, fill the gaps, find the original quotes and references, finding the remaining scholars of this original system from Himachal Pradesh itself and so on. In short still 'A lot of work is pending the Lal Kitab System of astrology'. We got only a seed of a great tree before it died out, now we need to plant this seed and recreate that ancient big tree out of this seed. (The same is true about the other schools of astrology such as Arsha and Jain schools as well)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,> //Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and> Jaimini.this is it...> Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in> this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and> Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this science.//> This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we are> speaking about. Let us revise -> 1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around> Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not greek)> system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history and may> date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life cycles,> enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with the name> 'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers mixed> much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently available BPHS> is such an amalgum.> 2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in> AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself and is> much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology with the> use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka, Aruthas> and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional astrology.> If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in BPHS the> reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by AP/Orissa> astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name 'Jaimini' with> the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is unauthentic, since> the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without much> connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much> contribution towards the predictive side. But this system introduces> numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient. The> current situation is that this new AP system with the so called name> 'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS and is> presented especially among the north indian majority as Parasara's> system!> 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal Pradesh,> most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based) system> of astrology.> [i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I will> complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj"> nirbhar@ wrote:> >> > Respected Shobhana Ji,> > I am a kid as far as Lalkitab is concerned. There is not any bad> > intention of mine in asking the question. I try to remove your doubts> > about this system as far asmy little knowledge is concerned> >> > '//Lal Kitab system is fairly advanced and many people do not> understand> > it //"> >> > I agree to the extent that the most people donot understand it but> this> > is fairly simple to understandprovided be read in original form.> Reading> > Translations/transliterations may not prove much fruitful.> >> > "//The reson is is their lack of understanding of Parashara and> > Jaimini..."//> >> > My opinion is different.> >> > "// had U understood the basics U would have never asked about basic> > ages and period of planets... If you are not understanding it , I> > suggest U abondon it and refresh your fundamantals of Parashara and> > Jaimini..Lala Kitaab can be understood only then...the system is not> > meant for road side astrologers as being practiced today by many.. Lal> > Kitaab System is very advanced.....Only people have a mastery over> > Parasara and Jaimini both can take a full grip of it...."//> >> > My opinion is different. I feel it is "Hawaii Khyaal"of most of the> > astrologers.I dont think your sugestion suits me. Just informal> > understanding of astronomy and traditional astrology serve the> purpose.> >> > "//The Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has just> > finished her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of> > Saturn."//> > There is no mention of use of this age in the interpretit ion. what do> > the mercury age and saturn age did or do to the native. Before asking> > this question i was in the opinion that this age factor might be given> > in some other system and it might be useful for me if to know that> > system.> >> > From your mail I can judge you have not well versed with Lalkitab. Had> > you be, then you have not dropped Lalkitab in your interpretition by> > just mentioning the above rule.> > "//If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and Jaimini.this> > is it..."//> > My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini in this> system.> > This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry and Samudrik> is> > and additional beneficial in understanding this science.> > Dear Shobhana Ji, I am a student of astrology. I always gain too much> > from your discussions.> > In my opinion every system of astrology is perfact in itself. In> > interpretions one should try to stick to analyze with one system only> > and apply rules. Using multiple system in one interpretitions may> cause> > confusions in the mind of students like me.> > Thanks for replying.> >> > Regards> > Nirmal> >> > , "Shobhana"> > shobhana_ms@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear NK bhardwaj Ji.> > >> > > from you posts I fully understand what you are studying and talking> > > about...> > >> > > Lala Kitab sytem is fairly advanced and many people do not> understand> > > it .....> > >> > > The reson is is their lack of understanding of Parashara and> > > Jaimini...> > >> > > Lala Kitaab is the finest amalgamation of the two and some> others....> > >> > > had U understood the basics U would have never asked about basic> ages> > > and period of planets... If you are not understanding it , I suggest> > > U abondon it and refresh your fundamantals of Parashara and> Jaimini..> > >> > > Lala Kitaab can be understood only then...the system is not meant> for> > > road side astrologers as being practiced today by many.. Lal Kitaab> > > System is very advanced.....Only people have a mastery over Parasara> > > and Jaimini both can take a full grip of it....> > >> > > Example....> > >> > > Graha Gyaraha jo ghar men Hoye. Taasir shani wo hota hai> > > Asar magar Ghar Usmen Jaata Bhrihaspati Jahan Jo hota Hai....> > >> > >> > > What a beautifull and fundamantal principles...> > >> > > Planets in the eleventh house have or despaly the natural tendencies> > > of the Saturn as per the placement of Saturn in the> horoscope...those> > > provide results as per the palacement of Saturn ...however the> > > effects are to be considred in the house or for the Karakatwa of> > > Jupiter or as per palcement of Jupiter....> > >> > > Nothing to beat such unfalaible principles... Parashari pundits> > > deride that and make a of mockery of it without understanding it and> > > without realisisng how potent astrological weapon this Lal Kitab can> > > be...> > >> > > If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and Jaimini...> > > this is it...> > >> > > I challange any one who says it is not... ?????> > >> > > Regards> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > In , "Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj"> > > <nirbhar@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Shobhana Ji,> > > > A nice and comprehensive analysis of the native's life indeed. It> > > is> > > > a good example for the students like me to follow.> > > >> > > > "//The Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has> > > just> > > > finished her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of> > > > Saturn."//> > > > I feel oblige if some light be thrown upon the method of> > > calculating> > > > the age factor with respect to Mercury & Saturn.> > > > Regards> > > > Nirmal> > > > , "Shobhana"> > > > <shobhana_ms@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sreenaadha Ji,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Om Namo Narayana> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > With the above prayer I venture into an analysis of the> > > horoscope.> > > > The> > > > > Jataka at present has completed 34 years of age. She has just> > > > finished> > > > > her natural time of Mercury and entered into the realm of> Saturn.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > From the first look of the horoscope, there is No alpaayu. For> the> > > > > native as six out of nine planets are in Panaphar, Venus, Venus> > > Moon> > > > > occupies kandra and there is nothing in Apoklima. The clear cut> > > out> > > > come> > > > > is minimum Madhyamaayu. Lord of Lagna, Jupiter also aspects the> > > > lagna.> > > > > Inspite of Mercury, the lord of Seventh house, exchanging sign> > > with> > > > Mars> > > > > which has become a Maraka, due to that and other reasons, would> > > > make her> > > > > attempt on her life from 27 to 34 years of age, there does not> > > > appear to> > > > > Alpaayu. The triad of PAM, as per Jaimini method, it indicated> > > > > madhyamaayu of lower bracket.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Let us now see the Marakas. Lord of the Seventh is Mercury and> > > lord> > > > of> > > > > the second is Saturn. Mercury has shunned the reponsibility by> > > > exchange> > > > > of sign with fifth lord Mars. Mars otherwise is key planet for> the> > > > > ascendent bu being in 7th, aspecting 2nd, having establish> > > realion> > > > with> > > > > lord of the seventh and 10th, aspecting 10th also, being lord of> > > > 12th,> > > > > it has become a top class maraka. Saturn being lord of 2nd,> > > > aspecting> > > > > second, aspecting 10th and aspecting lord of 7th also has become> a> > > > > Marka. So we have to deal with two marakas and a strong> > > trishadaya> > > > lord> > > > > Venus located in the fourth.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > For an attempt of suicide, connection between the eight, the> > > > lagna or> > > > > minimum the third and the eight is necessary. Third is self,> > > > > subcounsciousness, self effort, courage, attempt and is Karaka> > > for> > > > life> > > > > being eight of eight. Somehow, if there is connection between> the> > > > > fourth, the eight and twelvth withe eighth, it makes a> possibility> > > > > stronger. The lords of the third of Kalpurusha chart, that is> > > > mercury> > > > > and its Karak mars also play importnat roles in making one carry> > > out> > > > > attemts on ones life.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Lord of Lagna and lord of the fourth house here are aspected by> > > > lord of> > > > > the third house Saturn. Let us also see which planets are nerest> > > to> > > > the> > > > > Mrityu Bhaga, Rahu and Mercury happen to be closet to the Mrityu> > > > bhaga> > > > > in the Rasi.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The lord of 22nd drekkana is Jupiter occupying lagana in D-3> > > chart.> > > > Lord> > > > > of the 64th Navamsa from Lagna is Satuen and from the Moon is> > > Venus.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > One has to metally weak or giveup and undergo tremendious> > > physical> > > > odds> > > > > to think of ending one life. In the chart Saturn and Mars are> > > > troturing> > > > > the Moon.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > What is problem with this chart.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The biggest peblem of this chart is two fold:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Two malefics afflicting Merucury and Nantural Putra karaka> > > Jupiter> > > > in> > > > > the fifth house.> > > > >> > > > > Fifth house, Jupiter under heavy affliction.> > > > >> > > > > Mercury under heavy affliction> > > > >> > > > > And biggest problem, Saturn aspecting Sun.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I am afraid the main problem emantes from the fifth house,> > > children,> > > > > income of the spouse, his useles friends and lack of> comaptibilty.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The denager is not to the life of the native but to her> marriage.> > > > It is> > > > > on rocks, either mishaps intervene otr the courts. I see a big> > > > trouble> > > > > for the marriage. lord of fifth in seveth is also saying /> > > > indicating> > > > > the third angle. It would be fifficult to work out for the> > > suvival> > > > of> > > > > the marriage. Attempts though should be made. Lord of the lagna> > > is> > > > with> > > > > the lord of the seveth house but in inimical fashion. Sun in> > > > between can> > > > > obly brig bondage. but Ketu is satating that child / son may the> > > > issue.> > > > > If she has corpluent she needs to reduce the wight. If she> thinks> > > > her> > > > > work and office is end all she needs to change her attidue.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Presently she is undergoing Vimshottary dasa of Jup / Me. Their> > > > ralation> > > > > has been explained above. Mercury is under pressure of Jup> Saturn> > > > and> > > > > Ketu. Ju is lord of 22nd Drekkana.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In yogini, dasa is of Rahu / Dhanaya (Shankata/ Jupiter) Rahu is> > > > > occupying Jupter astar. bothe signifying 22 dreshkonna and> > > problems> > > > > induced by the love affairs ( 5th house) of the Jupiter (lagan> > > > lord ) or> > > > > due to lack of son more likely to be later.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Now I will try and finally clinch the issue. She is undergoing,> > > > Cancer /> > > > > Cancer Rasi dasa period. Perfect Cancer. Cancer is the eight> rasi> > > > from> > > > > her Lagna, that makes her try an attempyt on the life as satuns> > > the> > > > GK> > > > > occupies the Rasi. Cancer also happens to house Paran pada. No> > > other> > > > > palnet aspects it. Problems of the family, work, office and> > > partner> > > > > (love) mount as the Rasi and Satuen aspct A7, A8, A10 and A4 are> > > > > associated with Cn Rasi by aspect. This was a real attempt. She> > > > needs to> > > > > be care full as Dasa Chdra of this Rasi (8th from ascendant)> > > will> > > > go on> > > > > upto Apr 2009. This a double GK dasa and really dangerious.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Next Dasa will be very good and smooth. If the realtion survives> > > I> > > > am> > > > > not sure due to heavy afflictions.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Upaya, if so desired, will to be discussed with the native only.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Regards.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

September 22, 2008

Respected Sreenadh Ji,

Origin of astrology is not known. As you said it is parampra which

carried out by one generation to other.

Few of the scholars amongst them break the traditions and documented

these pramaparas in the shape of big Granths/Shastras. People like us

started giving their names to that documented astrology system. Like

Prashara, Vrahmeera, Kalyan verma, Aryabhatta,Jaimini are our vedic

Scholars. Therefore their treatise are famous & termed with vedic

Astrology.

Similarly Many new researcher gone further in to it and did research.

People give their name to their research. Like KP Padhati is given

name as Pt. Krishana Murti did research and found accurate result.He

documented his research and presented before the public. Similarly Pt.

Sheshadri Iyer has been given credibility for his Yogi, Avyogi &

Daghda rashi theory.

Any thing which is different from the routine is immediately get

attention by everyone. Lalkitab is a system of astrology, which is

different from the normal traditional system. Whether it is based upon

prampragat astrology of Himachal,Punjab,Uttaranchal or anyhwere else

or It is written in urdu is immaterial and does not have any

weightage. We owe to that person who do this type of work. Due credit

is required to be given to the person who documented it and brought

out for the public. Pt. Rup Chand Joshi Ji has the the credit for this

system. Now this is not confined within Joshis of Punjab, or as you

said Hills of Himachal.

Similarly the credit will go to that person who amongst Nadi

Astrologers & Bhrigus breaks the tradition and take that system out

of confinement and bring it out well documented for public.

I am not Preacher for any system of Astrology. I share what I felt

during the studies of various system. As I earlier said every system

is complete in itself if its rules followed in totality. Jaimini is

unique as it is different from normal traditions and results are

better than others. KP is unique because of its accuracy in timing of

events.Ashtakvarga is unique because it is different from other and

accurate too about the general behaviour of planets. Now Timing of

events can also be judged accurately with it.

What is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System from others? I try to share

my experience. As an engineer we were taught

1. to pinpoint the defect as per symptoms

2. to take appropriate steps to rectify it accordingly.

This is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System. Here one can learn how to

find the exact fault and accordingly do the remedy. This is missing in

other systems.

Let us not go for who wrote and on which astrology it is based upon.

Let us be to 'What is written'.This is more valuable to us.

Best Regards

Nirmal

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Nirmal ji,

> The Lal Kitab System has an origin and history far beyond the

life and

> story of Pt. Rup Chand Joshi ji. Definitely he was from Panjab. But

> just read the info he and others provides about - 'from where he got

> that info; the lessons on Lal Kitab system of astrology'. Please look at

> the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup Chand Joshi. This

> system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal

> Pradesh (a scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who

> happened to work in army).

> So the point is the system has its origin in Himachal Pradesh. Later

> Pt.Joshi learned it, added some more Urdu words, elaborated it, written

> the texts in Urdu etc are all not that important. The system is and

> remains to be a parampara based traditional system system originated in

> Himachal Pradesh with its related original 'Sanskrit quotes' (?) and

> reference info lost.

> Note: Please also note that Himachal Pradesh is a state with even

some

> surviving Harappan Civilizations. The state has great tradition and

> history. The remoteness and inapproachability of several places in

> Himachal Pradesh had helped much in keeping some ancient knowledge

> treasures and traditions preserved in some remote villages of Himachal

> Pradesh till date, just like in Kerala. This is a state into which we

> should look for some possible surviving ancient works and knowledge.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> ar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Sreenadh Ji,

> > Information regarding Jaimini system is new to me. Though I read books

> > written by many South Indian Astrologers on this topic but I never

> > been gone to this extent about the origin of this system. I was in

> > opinion that this is part of BPHS.

> > Regarding Lalkitab I wish to give some detail about the origin of This

> > system.

> > Joshi is a sect of brahmins in Punjab. This sect had the mastery of of

> > Palmistry. Chiero, The famous astrologer and specialist of palmistry

> > has described about this fact in his books way back in 1800 plus

> > years. There is a reference of a book having redcolor binding which is

> > kept sacredly by Joshis of Punjab.

> > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi, the creator/writer of Lalkitab system belonged to

> > this sect.

> > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi had written five books in his life time. These

> > books were published in Urdu, which was the main language at that time

> > in Punjab. These books are as below with year of publication

> > 1. Samudrik ki Lalkitab-1939(popularly known as lalkitab ke farmaan)

> > this books have basic rules of Lalkitab and palmistry.

> > 2. Samudrik ki Lalkitab ke Armaan-1940- This book describes basic

> > rules and properties of Jyotish.

> > 3. Samudrik ki Lalkitab Teesra hissa-1941- This book is known as

> > Gutka(handbook). First time Pt.Ji used poetry in this book.

> > 4. Samudrik Ki Lalkitab - 1942. This book is almost combination of

> > above three books in one. This book discuss all rules , remedies in

> > detail.

> > 5. lalkitab-1952(Full title is " Ilam samudrik ki buniyaad per chalne

> > waley Jyotish ki madad se haath rekha ke zariye darust ke gayi janam

> > kundli se zindagi ke halaat dekhney ke liye LalKitab-1952)In english

> > Full Title translation can be " Lalkitab - 1952 to know about the life

> > with Corrected Janam Kundli done with the help of Samudrik basis "

> > This book discussed the subject in full detail including remedial

> > measure. Most of the Translated/transliterated books available are of

> > this version(1952).

> > These books were on the verge of becoming extinct in the due course of

> > time because of the greed of few astrologers who collected the

> > original versions and put them it in there almirahs so that general

> > public and young aspirant may not get a glimpse of it. This causes

> > different hearsays and stories about these books. A few amatuers and

> > some some sacred minded person like Mr. Yog Raj Prabhakar of Patiala

> > Punjab, get these copies, scanned it electronically and Put it on the

> > web for the reading of all. All astrologers can now read these books

> > on line at

> > http://.ueuo.com/lalkitabs.html

> > These books are in Urdu Language. Person who can read urdu can also

> > get free CD if he requires.

> > Some Myths about these Books:

> > - these are persian Books as many words are persian.

> > - These books are having origin in Persia and translated in Hindi

> > These are totally base less. One can know these facts by reading these

> > books.

> > These books were written in local dialact which was used at that time

> > in Punjab, and full of local phrases. Hanuman ji,Shiv ji, Durga

> > Ji,BhaironJi, Vishnu and sariswati etc. are there as planet dieties in

> > this books.

> > Moreover there are still many person alive who helped Pt. Rup chand

> > Joshi Ji to print these books. Pt.Ji Died in eightees.

> > This is a brief about the history of lalkitab books.

> > Regards

> > Nirmal

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > sreesog@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Nirmal ji and Sobhana ji,

> > > //Sobhana ji: If there is a very fine amalgamation of Lal Kitaab and

> > > Jaimini.this is it...

> > > Nirmal ji: My opinion is different. There is not an iota of Jamini

> in

> > > this system. This system is unique in itself. Knowledge of Palmistry

> and

> > > Samudrik is and additional beneficial in understanding this

> science.//

> > > This is a tricky situation. First we should understand what we are

> > > speaking about. Let us revise -

> > > 1) Parasara System: This is a system possibily originated around

> > > Kashmir, and is a mix-up of Arsha and Yavana (Ionian and not greek)

> > > system as per Arsha Rishi horas. The system has a great history and

> may

> > > date back to BC 1400 onwards - regarding its development life

> cycles,

> > > enriched through the numerous masters of Parasara school (with the

> name

> > > 'Parasara'). Later after 4th century some AP/Orissa scholers mixed

> > > much of local Jaimini system with it, and the currently available

> BPHS

> > > is such an amalgum.

> > > 2) Jaimini System : It is a system of astrology originated in

> > > AP/Orissa AFTER 4th century AD. It is a system unique in itself and

> is

> > > much different from the traditional Arsha school of astrology with

> the

> > > use of unique concepts such as Karamama, Argala, Chara karaka,

> Aruthas

> > > and so on. This is a totally divergent path from traditional

> astrology.

> > > If we find all the above terms such as Karamsa, Argala etc in BPHS

> the

> > > reason is the the interpolation of these Jaimini concepts by

> AP/Orissa

> > > astrologers into BPHS. The attribution of the sage name 'Jaimini'

> with

> > > the mideveal AP/Orissa system of astrology itself is unauthentic,

> since

> > > the book does not mention the sage name. It is a system without much

> > > connection to the Arsha school of astrology; and without much

> > > contribution towards the predictive side. But this system introduces

> > > numerous 'new techniques' with a false aura as if it is ancient. The

> > > current situation is that this new AP system with the so called name

> > > 'Jaimini system' hi-jacked the ancient Parashara system and BPHS and

> is

> > > presented especially among the north indian majority as Parasara's

> > > system!

> > > 3) Lal Kitab system: This is a system originated in Himachal

> > Pradesh,

> > > most possibly an indipended brach traditional (parampara based)

> system

> > > of astrology.

> > > [i am stopping this mail in the middle. Bit busy. Got to go. I will

> > > complete it later. But posting it as of now - as is.

> > > Love and regards,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " Nirmal Kumar

> Bhardwaj "

> >

>

September 23, 2008

Very Respected Sreenadh ji

Namaskar

Sir you have written:

......// look at the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup Chand Joshi.

This

system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal Pradesh (a

scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who happened to work in

army.//

Can you elaborate this? Because I have also heard many such similar stories but

never found any truth. Kindly do not fel offended, but as a student of Lal Kitab

I would really like to know whther you have any concrete evidence in support of

what you have said or is this a mere hearsay?

Respectfully

Yograj Prabhakar

--- On Mon, 9/22/08, Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote:

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar

Re: Lal Kitab, Jaimini and Parasara Schools

of astrology

Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:38 PM

Respected Sreenadh Ji,

Origin of astrology is not known. As you said it is parampra which

carried out by one generation to other.

Few of the scholars amongst them break the traditions and documented

these pramaparas in the shape of big Granths/Shastras. People like us

started giving their names to that documented astrology system. Like

Prashara, Vrahmeera, Kalyan verma, Aryabhatta,Jaimini are our vedic

Scholars. Therefore their treatise are famous & termed with vedic

Astrology.

Similarly Many new researcher gone further in to it and did research.

People give their name to their research. Like KP Padhati is given

name as Pt. Krishana Murti did research and found accurate result.He

documented his research and presented before the public. Similarly Pt.

Sheshadri Iyer has been given credibility for his Yogi, Avyogi &

Daghda rashi theory.

Any thing which is different from the routine is immediately get

attention by everyone. Lalkitab is a system of astrology, which is

different from the normal traditional system. Whether it is based upon

prampragat astrology of Himachal,Punjab, Uttaranchal or anyhwere else

or It is written in urdu is immaterial and does not have any

weightage. We owe to that person who do this type of work. Due credit

is required to be given to the person who documented it and brought

out for the public. Pt. Rup Chand Joshi Ji has the the credit for this

system. Now this is not confined within Joshis of Punjab, or as you

said Hills of Himachal.

Similarly the credit will go to that person who amongst Nadi

Astrologers & Bhrigus breaks the tradition and take that system out

of confinement and bring it out well documented for public.

I am not Preacher for any system of Astrology. I share what I felt

during the studies of various system. As I earlier said every system

is complete in itself if its rules followed in totality. Jaimini is

unique as it is different from normal traditions and results are

better than others. KP is unique because of its accuracy in timing of

events.Ashtakvarga is unique because it is different from other and

accurate too about the general behaviour of planets. Now Timing of

events can also be judged accurately with it.

What is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System from others? I try to share

my experience. As an engineer we were taught

1. to pinpoint the defect as per symptoms

2. to take appropriate steps to rectify it accordingly.

This is the uniqueness of Lalkitab System. Here one can learn how to

find the exact fault and accordingly do the remedy. This is missing in

other systems.

Let us not go for who wrote and on which astrology it is based upon.

Let us be to 'What is written'.This is more valuable to us.

Best Regards

Nirmal

ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog > wrote:

>

> Dear Nirmal ji,

> The Lal Kitab System has an origin and history far beyond the

life and

> story of Pt. Rup Chand Joshi ji. Definitely he was from Panjab. But

> just read the info he and others provides about - 'from where he got

> that info; the lessons on Lal Kitab system of astrology'. Please look at

> the history of Lal Kitab Astrology prior to Pt. Rup Chand Joshi. This

> system decended to Pt. Joshi orignially from a soldier from Himachal

> Pradesh (a scholar with traditional knowledge of this system, who

> happened to work in army).

> So the point is the system has its origin in Himachal Pradesh. Later

> Pt.Joshi learned it, added some more Urdu words, elaborated it, written

> the texts in Urdu etc are all not that important. The system is and

> remains to be a parampara based traditional system system originated in

> Himachal Pradesh with its related original 'Sanskrit quotes' (?) and

> reference info lost.

> Note: Please also note that Himachal Pradesh is a state with even

some

> surviving Harappan Civilizations. The state has great tradition and

> history. The remoteness and inapproachability of several places in

> Himachal Pradesh had helped much in keeping some ancient knowledge

> treasures and traditions preserved in some remote villages of Himachal

> Pradesh till date, just like in Kerala. This is a state into which we

> should look for some possible surviving ancient works and knowledge.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> ar Bhardwaj " <nirbhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Sreenadh Ji,

> > Information regarding Jaimini system is new to me. Though I read books

> > written by many South Indian Astrologers on this topic but I never

> > been gone to this extent about the origin of this system. I was in

> > opinion that this is part of BPHS.

> > Regarding Lalkitab I wish to give some detail about the origin of This

> > system.

> > Joshi is a sect of brahmins in Punjab. This sect had the mastery of of

> > Palmistry. Chiero, The famous astrologer and specialist of palmistry

> > has described about this fact in his books way back in 1800 plus

> > years. There is a reference of a book having redcolor binding which is

> > kept sacredly by Joshis of Punjab.

> > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi, the creator/writer of Lalkitab system belonged to

> > this sect.

> > Pt. Rup Chand Joshi had written five books in his life time. These

> > books were published in Urdu, which was the main language at that time

> > in Punjab. These books are as below with year of publication

> > 1. Samudrik ki Lalkitab-1939( popularly known as lalkitab ke farmaan)

> > this books have basic rules of Lalkitab and palmistry.

> > 2. Samudrik ki Lalkitab ke Armaan-1940- This book describes basic

> > rules and properties of Jyotish.

> > 3. Samudrik ki Lalkitab Teesra hissa-1941- This book is known as

> > Gutka(handbook) . First time Pt.Ji used poetry in this book.

> > 4. Samudrik Ki Lalkitab - 1942. This book is almost combination of

> > above three books in one. This book discuss all rules , remedies in

> > detail.

> > 5. lalkitab-1952( Full title is " Ilam samudrik ki buniyaad per chalne

> > waley Jyotish ki madad se haath rekha ke zariye darust ke gayi janam

> > kundli se zindagi ke halaat dekhney ke liye LalKitab-1952) In english

> > Full Title translation can be " Lalkitab - 1952 to know about the life

> > with Corrected Janam Kundli done with the help of Samudrik basis "

> > This book discussed the subject in full detail including remedial

> > measure. Most of the Translated/translit erated books available are of

> > this version(1952) .