Manda budhis_ Chitra_Wijewickrama

[Guest guest]

Dear Cloud_Maker_NZ ji,

I am getting Libra Lagna, with Venus in Lagna in Gemini navamsa, conjunct with Debilitated Sun.

// Lagna lord is debilitated, afflicted by slow Saturn and aggressive Mars. The Sun is in the enemy sign with the enemy. Not at all conducive to independant thinking. Sun is in the headless Ketu's nakshastra //

Can you check your calculations...for LL is NOT debilitated.....?? as you mentioned......some typing error....??

 

With regards,

Sreeram_Srinivas

, "cloudmakernz" <chitraw wrote: Dear Sunilji,I would like to attemt this chart. I can only comment on the obvious indications. Lagna lord is debilitated, afflicted by slow Saturn and aggressive Mars. The Sun is in the enemy sign with the enemy. Not at all conducive to independant thinking. Sun is in the headless Ketu's nakshastra. Moon is afflicted by Mars and sitting in the enemy sign. Moon has rasi dristi (Jaimini) from Saturn and Rahu, which is regarded as a permanant affliction. Thus the mind is under heavy affliction.Mon is in the debilitated and heaviliy afflicted Sun's nakshastra. Regards Chitra Wijewickrama

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji and group,I thank Sunil ji for

coming up with an interesting exercise. Many learned members have already

shared their opinions on this. I might only be consolidating what has been said.

I'll try not to be too repetitive.

Literally speaking,

Manda is saturn and Buddhi is mercury. So, in one sentence, when saturn

afflicts mercury, it makes one manda-buddhi. It is seen clearly in

many charts where saturn is conjunct mercury, the person is not sure of himself

or is slow and a deliberate thinker, takes time in decision making, is the one

to go back to check whether he has locked the house properly. Many OCDs are

seen in people with such a combination.

The severity of

affliction will, of course, depend on various other factors also:

Houses and lords: Association of lagna/LL

(self, head, brain), 2H//2L (initial years, education, speech, etc), 3H/3L

(efforts, karat karat abhyaas ke jadmati hot sujaan), 4H/4L (education,

emotions, mind, happiness), 5H/5L (dhi/buddhi, intellect, education,

training, discrimination, etc).Planets/karaks: Mercury is the karak for

buddhi and intelligence. And Saturn the slowing and shrinking factor will

make the working of mercury slow.Moon the karak of mind/inclinations, shows

where and how the intelligence of mercury is directed. When moon is also

weak or afflicted, it may not provide the right reflection of

intelligence, or can give a misguided intelligence, or make one a recluse

or detached person… making of a sanyaasi.Sun, the natural atma karak and arogya

karak is very important.Jupiter, the karak for intellect and

wisdom, if afflicted, adds to the woes.

There can be different degrees of mental or intellectual

retardation/disability, ranging from mild to profound. It can also manifest in

several forms. The affected persons may develop more slowly than those with

average intelligence and adaptive skills. Astrologically, this will all depend on a combination of many factors. Given

above are the gross factors. There is a thin line between sane and insane. This

line also keeps shifting with dashas and transits. The normal are not

detectably insane. As Bhagavati ji has given an interesting example of the

absent minded-professor. Often afflictions will be seen at more subtle and

microlevels of controlling nakshatra lords and sublords.

With the above background, we can try to test the given chart. Before trying

to ascertain the specific manda buddhi combinations, we should judge the

strength of lagna. Here LL is in Lagna, is conjunct sun and is aspected by mars and Saturn,

which gives strength to the lagna. Lagna is not weak per se. But at the same

time, there are multiple afflictions:

LL is also 8L in lagna

Sun is a debilitated badhakesh conjunct lagna

and LLLagna is afflicted by 3 malefics, all in various

states of weakness.

Lagna, LL, sun and moon are all aspected by debilitated

2L/7L mars.Lagna, LL and sun are aspected by a weak and

kshobhit Saturn who is afflicted by Rahu/ketu and 6L Jupiter.

From moon:

Moon as such is not weak. It enjoys good

placement. Is aspected by 4L and 11L mars and 10th from moon are sun

and venus.

But again there are afflictions also. Moon is in

Capricorn and rasheesh Saturn is in 8H with 9L/12L Jupiter and in R/K axis.

Both moon rashi lord Saturn and Moon are placed in 8L sun's nakshatra.7H and 8H from moon are afflicted.

Thus, both from lagna and moon, we can a see a challenging life and some loss

to the native. Same is the case from sun also.

Dasha at birth of sun-saturn indicates that the loss and challenge was

thrown up at the birth itself. The influence of 8th lordship on the

native as seen from lagna and moon and dasha, can mean a defect or a loss at

birth.

Can we see a basic

manda-buddhi combination here? To some extent yes.

There are several

classic combinations balarishta, arishta and manda buddhi applicable in this

case. Sarvarth chintamani (5:46, 5:47 and 5:48 are specifically applicable), Jatak Parijat

and Jatak Tatwa also explain these combinations. Balarisht combinations given

in all the classics may also be applied. Even if the child who survives a

balarisht owing to various 'bhangs', there is some weakness somewhere. I am not

going to delve into these combinations as they are obviously present.

Looking at saturn and

mercury:

Saturn and mercury are friendly planets to

lagna and both maintain a panchadha maitri with lagna lord venus. Saturn

is YK in 11H and holds promise to do good. It is also the 5L and hence the

lord of buddhi in the chart. But becomes an inherent slowing factor for

working of buddhi. Saturn is weak and afflicted by rahu/ketu

in the badhaksthan showing the challenges to be faced by the individual.

Bhaskaran ji has given a detailed account of this hence I am not going

into that. Mercury is the 9L/12L in 2H in inimical

scorpio in nakshatra of Saturn and sublord also Saturn. In bhava chart it

shifts to lagna with a neecha sun and aspected by a debilitated mars. It

is aspected by Saturn. 2L and 5L from mercury is again afflicted Jupiter.

In any case, Jup-Rahu close conjunction with Jup as 3L/6L does not auger

well for receiving guidance from a teacher/guru. Saturn afflicts mercury, as well as virgo

and Gemini… getting parked in virgo by virtue of its placement in rashi

sandhi. This also causes a loss of 5H intelligence (5L in 12H).So mercury, karak of buddhi and speech in

2H which should have enhanced both these traits, may have caused the loss

of these very traits as it is also 12L and gets afflicted by Saturn in 12H.

Dashas in operation

Saturn's antar at birth, and its

affliction to 12H, lagna/LL, mercury, sun, 9H, might have caused a congenital

problem giving late milestones in development, like speech, motor reflexes, neuro-disability,

etc. In chaturvimshansh, LL

Jupiter and D-1 lord Ve are conjunct in 6H which is 8H of lagna and Saturn is

in cancer in 8H. Sun is in 5H, aspected by Saturn from 8H. This indicates again

a lack of intelligence. The further antardashas

of sun-mer and sun-ketu do not help (mercury for obvious reasons and ketu is in

5H from lagna and 2H from moon) and we can again expect a problem with speech,

expression, etc. The infancy in the control of afflicted planets can lead to

severe problems for future.

Moon, mars, rahu

remain connected with the problem and the native may still be fighting his way.

He could be a slow learner, lack discrimination and not intelligent enough to

compete with the world today. What appears to be a sanyas (as pravrajya yoga) might

only be a weak intellect, not being able to express to the world and hence produce

a recluse.These are only indications. As I said earlier, this is an area where it is difficult to assess the tangibles and quantify the impact of afflictions, specially as a blind study without knowing the background of the native. This is also a very subjective assessment, who I may call manda-buddhi may appear quite normal to others.

In conclusion I can say that there seems to be a loss or lack of buddhi, intelligence and intellect, which has also had an impact on the mind and body of the individual.

As I post this analysis... at 14.00, moon is in anuradha, debilitated in scorpio lagna rising and mercury conjunct saturn, in ketu's nakshatra. Jupiter is retrograde. What I have written might reflect a manda buddhi... only my natal strength, if any can save me...

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Hare rama krishna

dear Neelam ji

Thanks for the anlaysis ,it was realy gr8 and u as usual done it gr8 .It touched many unexplored areas also .

 

thanks for posting ,i will come with my observations and feed backs , when ,after some more memebrs post it

'

regrds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah .

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji and group,> > I thank Sunil ji for coming up with an interesting exercise. Many learned> members have already shared their opinions on this. I might only be> consolidating what has been said. I'll try not to be too repetitive.> > Literally speaking, Manda is saturn and Buddhi is mercury. So, in one> sentence, when saturn afflicts mercury, it makes one manda-buddhi. It is> seen clearly in many charts where saturn is conjunct mercury, the person is> not sure of himself or is slow and a deliberate thinker, takes time in> decision making, is the one to go back to check whether he has locked the> house properly. Many OCDs are seen in people with such a combination.> > The severity of affliction will, of course, depend on various other factors> also:> > - *Houses and lords:* Association of lagna/LL (self, head, brain), 2H//2L> (initial years, education, speech, etc), 3H/3L (efforts, karat karat abhyaas> ke jadmati hot sujaan), 4H/4L (education, emotions, mind, happiness), 5H/5L> (dhi/buddhi, intellect, education, training, discrimination, etc).> - *Planets/karaks:* Mercury is the karak for buddhi and intelligence. And> Saturn the slowing and shrinking factor will make the working of mercury> slow.> - *Moon *the karak of mind/inclinations, shows where and how the> intelligence of mercury is directed. When moon is also weak or afflicted, it> may not provide the right reflection of intelligence, or can give a> misguided intelligence, or make one a recluse or detached person… making of> a sanyaasi.> - *Sun,* the natural atma karak and arogya karak is very important.> - *Jupiter*, the karak for intellect and wisdom, if afflicted, adds to> the woes.> > There can be different degrees of mental or intellectual> retardation/disability, ranging from mild to profound. It can also manifest> in several forms. The affected persons may develop more slowly than those> with average intelligence and adaptive skills.> > Astrologically, this will all depend on a combination of many factors. Given> above are the gross factors. There is a thin line between sane and insane.> This line also keeps shifting with dashas and transits. The normal are not> detectably insane. As Bhagavati ji has given an interesting example of the> absent minded-professor. Often afflictions will be seen at more subtle and> microlevels of controlling nakshatra lords and sublords.> > With the above background, we can try to test the given chart. Before trying> to ascertain the specific manda buddhi combinations, we should judge the> strength of lagna. Here LL is in Lagna, is conjunct sun and is aspected by> mars and Saturn, which gives strength to the lagna. Lagna is not weak per> se. But at the same time, there are multiple afflictions:> > - LL is also 8L in lagna> - Sun is a debilitated badhakesh conjunct lagna and LL> - Lagna is afflicted by 3 malefics, all in various states of weakness.> - Lagna, LL, sun and moon are all aspected by debilitated 2L/7L mars.> - Lagna, LL and sun are aspected by a weak and kshobhit Saturn who is> afflicted by Rahu/ketu and 6L Jupiter.> > From moon:> > - Moon as such is not weak. It enjoys good placement. Is aspected by 4L> and 11L mars and 10th from moon are sun and venus.> - But again there are afflictions also. Moon is in Capricorn and rasheesh> Saturn is in 8H with 9L/12L Jupiter and in R/K axis. Both moon rashi lord> Saturn and Moon are placed in 8L sun's nakshatra.> - 7H and 8H from moon are afflicted.> > Thus, both from lagna and moon, we can a see a challenging life and some> loss to the native. Same is the case from sun also.> > Dasha at birth of sun-saturn indicates that the loss and challenge was> thrown up at the birth itself. The influence of 8th lordship on the native> as seen from lagna and moon and dasha, can mean a defect or a loss at birth.> > *Can we see a basic manda-buddhi combination here? To some extent yes.*> > There are several classic combinations balarishta, arishta and manda buddhi> applicable in this case. Sarvarth chintamani (5:46, 5:47 and 5:48 are> specifically applicable), Jatak Parijat and Jatak Tatwa also explain these> combinations. Balarisht combinations given in all the classics may also be> applied. Even if the child who survives a balarisht owing to various> 'bhangs', there is some weakness somewhere. I am not going to delve into> these combinations as they are obviously present.> > Looking at saturn and mercury:> > - Saturn and mercury are friendly planets to lagna and both maintain a> panchadha maitri with lagna lord venus. Saturn is YK in 11H and holds> promise to do good. It is also the 5L and hence the lord of buddhi in the> chart. But becomes an inherent slowing factor for working of buddhi.> - Saturn is weak and afflicted by rahu/ketu in the badhaksthan showing> the challenges to be faced by the individual. Bhaskaran ji has given a> detailed account of this hence I am not going into that.> - Mercury is the 9L/12L in 2H in inimical scorpio in nakshatra of Saturn> and sublord also Saturn. In bhava chart it shifts to lagna with a neecha sun> and aspected by a debilitated mars. It is aspected by Saturn. 2L and 5L from> mercury is again afflicted Jupiter. In any case, Jup-Rahu close conjunction> with Jup as 3L/6L does not auger well for receiving guidance from a> teacher/guru.> - Saturn afflicts mercury, as well as virgo and Gemini… getting parked in> virgo by virtue of its placement in rashi sandhi. This also causes a loss of> 5H intelligence (5L in 12H).> - So mercury, karak of buddhi and speech in 2H which should have enhanced> both these traits, may have caused the loss of these very traits as it is> also 12L and gets afflicted by Saturn in 12H.> > *Dashas in operation*> > Saturn's antar at birth, and its affliction to 12H, lagna/LL, mercury, sun,> 9H, might have caused a congenital problem giving late milestones in> development, like speech, motor reflexes, neuro-disability, etc.> > In chaturvimshansh, LL Jupiter and D-1 lord Ve are conjunct in 6H which is> 8H of lagna and Saturn is in cancer in 8H. Sun is in 5H, aspected by Saturn> from 8H. This indicates again a lack of intelligence.> > The further antardashas of sun-mer and sun-ketu do not help (mercury for> obvious reasons and ketu is in 5H from lagna and 2H from moon) and we can> again expect a problem with speech, expression, etc. The infancy in the> control of afflicted planets can lead to severe problems for future.> > Moon, mars, rahu remain connected with the problem and the native may still> be fighting his way. He could be a slow learner, lack discrimination and not> intelligent enough to compete with the world today. What appears to be a> sanyas (as pravrajya yoga) might only be a weak intellect, not being able to> express to the world and hence produce a recluse.> > These are only indications. As I said earlier, this is an area where it is> difficult to assess the tangibles and quantify the impact of afflictions,> specially as a blind study without knowing the background of the native.> This is also a very subjective assessment, who I may call manda-buddhi may> appear quite normal to others.> > In conclusion I can say that there seems to be a loss or lack of buddhi,> intelligence and intellect, which has also had an impact on the mind and> body of the individual.> > As I post this analysis... at 14.00, moon is in anuradha, debilitated in> scorpio lagna rising and mercury conjunct saturn, in ketu's nakshatra.> Jupiter is retrograde. What I have written might reflect a manda buddhi...> only my natal strength, if any can save me...> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,

 

Thank you for the great and detailed writeup. I wish I could write

like you. A very fast person, I lose when I have to spend more than 5

mins on anything. A teacher once told me " if you write everything I

would give you 100% " , you indeed have inspired me a lot with your

writings. Hope to learn more from you

 

Rgds,

bhagavathi

 

 

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sunil ji and group,

>

> I thank Sunil ji for coming up with an interesting exercise. Many

learned

> members have already shared their opinions on this. I might only be

> consolidating what has been said. I'll try not to be too repetitive.

>

> Literally speaking, Manda is saturn and Buddhi is mercury. So, in

one

> sentence, when saturn afflicts mercury, it makes one manda-buddhi.

It is

> seen clearly in many charts where saturn is conjunct mercury, the

person is

> not sure of himself or is slow and a deliberate thinker, takes time

in

> decision making, is the one to go back to check whether he has

locked the

> house properly. Many OCDs are seen in people with such a

combination.

>

> The severity of affliction will, of course, depend on various other

factors

> also:

>

> - *Houses and lords:* Association of lagna/LL (self, head,

brain), 2H//2L

> (initial years, education, speech, etc), 3H/3L (efforts, karat

karat abhyaas

> ke jadmati hot sujaan), 4H/4L (education, emotions, mind,

happiness), 5H/5L

> (dhi/buddhi, intellect, education, training, discrimination,

etc).

> - *Planets/karaks:* Mercury is the karak for buddhi and

intelligence. And

> Saturn the slowing and shrinking factor will make the working of

mercury

> slow.

> - *Moon *the karak of mind/inclinations, shows where and how the

> intelligence of mercury is directed. When moon is also weak or

afflicted, it

> may not provide the right reflection of intelligence, or can

give a

> misguided intelligence, or make one a recluse or detached

person… making of

> a sanyaasi.

> - *Sun,* the natural atma karak and arogya karak is very

important.

> - *Jupiter*, the karak for intellect and wisdom, if afflicted,

adds to

> the woes.

>

> There can be different degrees of mental or intellectual

> retardation/disability, ranging from mild to profound. It can also

manifest

> in several forms. The affected persons may develop more slowly than

those

> with average intelligence and adaptive skills.

>

> Astrologically, this will all depend on a combination of many

factors. Given

> above are the gross factors. There is a thin line between sane and

insane.

> This line also keeps shifting with dashas and transits. The normal

are not

> detectably insane. As Bhagavati ji has given an interesting example

of the

> absent minded-professor. Often afflictions will be seen at more

subtle and

> microlevels of controlling nakshatra lords and sublords.

>

> With the above background, we can try to test the given chart.

Before trying

> to ascertain the specific manda buddhi combinations, we should

judge the

> strength of lagna. Here LL is in Lagna, is conjunct sun and is

aspected by

> mars and Saturn, which gives strength to the lagna. Lagna is not

weak per

> se. But at the same time, there are multiple afflictions:

>

> - LL is also 8L in lagna

> - Sun is a debilitated badhakesh conjunct lagna and LL

> - Lagna is afflicted by 3 malefics, all in various states of

weakness.

> - Lagna, LL, sun and moon are all aspected by debilitated 2L/7L

mars.

> - Lagna, LL and sun are aspected by a weak and kshobhit Saturn

who is

> afflicted by Rahu/ketu and 6L Jupiter.

>

> From moon:

>

> - Moon as such is not weak. It enjoys good placement. Is

aspected by 4L

> and 11L mars and 10th from moon are sun and venus.

> - But again there are afflictions also. Moon is in Capricorn and

rasheesh

> Saturn is in 8H with 9L/12L Jupiter and in R/K axis. Both moon

rashi lord

> Saturn and Moon are placed in 8L sun's nakshatra.

> - 7H and 8H from moon are afflicted.

>

> Thus, both from lagna and moon, we can a see a challenging life and

some

> loss to the native. Same is the case from sun also.

>

> Dasha at birth of sun-saturn indicates that the loss and challenge

was

> thrown up at the birth itself. The influence of 8th lordship on the

native

> as seen from lagna and moon and dasha, can mean a defect or a loss

at birth.

>

> *Can we see a basic manda-buddhi combination here? To some extent

yes.*

>

> There are several classic combinations balarishta, arishta and

manda buddhi

> applicable in this case. Sarvarth chintamani (5:46, 5:47 and 5:48

are

> specifically applicable), Jatak Parijat and Jatak Tatwa also

explain these

> combinations. Balarisht combinations given in all the classics may

also be

> applied. Even if the child who survives a balarisht owing to various

> 'bhangs', there is some weakness somewhere. I am not going to delve

into

> these combinations as they are obviously present.

>

> Looking at saturn and mercury:

>

> - Saturn and mercury are friendly planets to lagna and both

maintain a

> panchadha maitri with lagna lord venus. Saturn is YK in 11H and

holds

> promise to do good. It is also the 5L and hence the lord of

buddhi in the

> chart. But becomes an inherent slowing factor for working of

buddhi.

> - Saturn is weak and afflicted by rahu/ketu in the badhaksthan

showing

> the challenges to be faced by the individual. Bhaskaran ji has

given a

> detailed account of this hence I am not going into that.

> - Mercury is the 9L/12L in 2H in inimical scorpio in nakshatra

of Saturn

> and sublord also Saturn. In bhava chart it shifts to lagna with

a neecha sun

> and aspected by a debilitated mars. It is aspected by Saturn. 2L

and 5L from

> mercury is again afflicted Jupiter. In any case, Jup-Rahu close

conjunction

> with Jup as 3L/6L does not auger well for receiving guidance

from a

> teacher/guru.

> - Saturn afflicts mercury, as well as virgo and Gemini… getting

parked in

> virgo by virtue of its placement in rashi sandhi. This also

causes a loss of

> 5H intelligence (5L in 12H).

> - So mercury, karak of buddhi and speech in 2H which should have

enhanced

> both these traits, may have caused the loss of these very traits

as it is

> also 12L and gets afflicted by Saturn in 12H.

>

> *Dashas in operation*

>

> Saturn's antar at birth, and its affliction to 12H, lagna/LL,

mercury, sun,

> 9H, might have caused a congenital problem giving late milestones in

> development, like speech, motor reflexes, neuro-disability, etc.

>

> In chaturvimshansh, LL Jupiter and D-1 lord Ve are conjunct in 6H

which is

> 8H of lagna and Saturn is in cancer in 8H. Sun is in 5H, aspected

by Saturn

> from 8H. This indicates again a lack of intelligence.

>

> The further antardashas of sun-mer and sun-ketu do not help

(mercury for

> obvious reasons and ketu is in 5H from lagna and 2H from moon) and

we can

> again expect a problem with speech, expression, etc. The infancy in

the

> control of afflicted planets can lead to severe problems for future.

>

> Moon, mars, rahu remain connected with the problem and the native

may still

> be fighting his way. He could be a slow learner, lack

discrimination and not

> intelligent enough to compete with the world today. What appears to

be a

> sanyas (as pravrajya yoga) might only be a weak intellect, not

being able to

> express to the world and hence produce a recluse.

>

> These are only indications. As I said earlier, this is an area

where it is

> difficult to assess the tangibles and quantify the impact of

afflictions,

> specially as a blind study without knowing the background of the

native.

> This is also a very subjective assessment, who I may call manda-

buddhi may

> appear quite normal to others.

>

> In conclusion I can say that there seems to be a loss or lack of

buddhi,

> intelligence and intellect, which has also had an impact on the

mind and

> body of the individual.

>

> As I post this analysis... at 14.00, moon is in anuradha,

debilitated in

> scorpio lagna rising and mercury conjunct saturn, in ketu's

nakshatra.

> Jupiter is retrograde. What I have written might reflect a manda

buddhi...

> only my natal strength, if any can save me...

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunilji. Bhagawathiji and Sreeramji,

I am sorry about the mistake. Lagna is Libra.I will be careful to

check my writing before hitting the send button.

regards

Chitra Wijewickrama

--.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavati ji, Renu ji and group,

 

 

 

I am happy to know that my words mean something to you. Our group is

sufficiently endowed with many learned members, who are also notable writers

and all of us gain a lot from their postings.

 

//A teacher once told me " if you write everything I would give you 100% " ,

you indeed have inspired me a lot with your writings.//

 

I guess there cannot be anything like 100%. Whatever we may say, or however

much we write, there always exists a chasm between our inner thoughts and

its ultimate expression, which can never be completely bridged (only

possible when someone can read the thought behind your expression). We all

have the conviction, perhaps illusory, that we have much more to say than

what we've actually said, which may not be the case.

 

There are two sets of people in any audience, one with whom you go on a

peripheral circular motion of words, and more words to explain those

words.... yet do not reach anywhere near the centre; And the other where

words are not needed to get to the core of the matter.

 

Hope you get my point.

 

*But coming to the actual point, the words in this context would mean

something only when Sunil ji lets us know about the native. How far or close

we are to the reality would only be the benchmark of success with words.*

 

Regards

Neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, ==>There are two sets of people in any audience, one with whom you go on aperipheral circular motion of words, and more words to explain thosewords.... yet do not reach anywhere near the centre; And the other wherewords are not needed to get to the core of the matter.<== Well said! Excellent! I hope you will count me on the second category. Love and Hugs, Sreenadh