Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Do You Think that a Planet can be called debilitated just because it is in its debilitated sign, and same for Exaltation. My views- I dont think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji and group,Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought provoking topic. Classics have given us following points of consideration:1) planets at paramoch degree2) planets in ooch rashi 3) planets at param neech degree4) planets in neech rashi Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points 2 and 4, for planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrikon and own house fall in the same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an exaltation sign are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch degree of mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no mention of nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue then, it should be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally a range is given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to be taken, unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there when we have a planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree? For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be approaching its ooch or neech degree.With these dictums, there might be a question of qualifying/quantifying the results of different degree placements. At what degree the planet is considered ooch/neech abhilashi? I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/transit. Till we are clear about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, we have got a sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This bal exactly quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet at paramoch degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. In between we have get a variety of strengths. I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for consideration. Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do sometimes get a reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen in some translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive way of judgment of exaltation/debilitation effects. Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered independently also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to the behaviour of the planets in different areas of life.RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Neelamji, // I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for consideration // I agree to this. Now what do you think is the logic for the Rishi Munis, giving certaind degrees as Exaltation for the Planets. regards/Bhaskar. , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji and group, > > Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought provoking > topic. > > Classics have given us following points of consideration: > > 1) planets at paramoch degree > 2) planets in ooch rashi > 3) planets at param neech degree > 4) planets in neech rashi > > Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points 2 and 4, for > planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrikon and own house fall in the > same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an exaltation sign > are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch degree of > mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no mention of > nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue then, it should > be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally a range is > given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to be taken, > unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there when we have a > planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree? > > For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and > neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be approaching its ooch > or neech degree. > With these dictums, there might be a question of qualifying/quantifying the > results of different degree placements. At what degree the planet is > considered ooch/neech abhilashi? > > I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an > exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/transit. Till we are clear > about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, we have got a > sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This bal exactly > quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet at paramoch > degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. In between we > have get a variety of strengths. > > I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for consideration. > Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do sometimes get a > reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen in some > translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive way of > judgment of exaltation/debilitation effects. > > Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered independently > also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to the behaviour > of the planets in different areas of life. > > Regards > Neelam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear neelamji, I like these arguments in astrology, one gets to learn,re-learn,refresh, so many new angles open up. I think this is a tough query which i may have put up, because if no reference in the texts, then how would one reply ? Please check up the Exaltation points of all th 7 Planets and note who are the Sub Lords at those points. You will notice something similarly striking and the planets who come up as results would be the most important planets we know. who make or destroy a chart. Which would also explain the logic behind Exaltation points which you would never find written in any book. You dont need to know Krishnamurthy Padhati for this. Any software would show You the Sub lords. regards, Bhaskar. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear Neelamji, > > // I have not come across any reference of nakshatra > degrees for consideration // > > I agree to this. > Now what do you think is the logic for the Rishi Munis, > giving certaind degrees as Exaltation for the Planets. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > , " neelam gupta " > <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji and group, > > > > Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought > provoking > > topic. > > > > Classics have given us following points of consideration: > > > > 1) planets at paramoch degree > > 2) planets in ooch rashi > > 3) planets at param neech degree > > 4) planets in neech rashi > > > > Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points 2 > and 4, for > > planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrikon and own house fall > in the > > same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an > exaltation sign > > are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch > degree of > > mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no mention of > > nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue then, > it should > > be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally a > range is > > given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to be > taken, > > unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there when > we have a > > planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree? > > > > For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and > > neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be approaching > its ooch > > or neech degree. > > With these dictums, there might be a question of > qualifying/quantifying the > > results of different degree placements. At what degree the planet is > > considered ooch/neech abhilashi? > > > > I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an > > exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/transit. Till we are > clear > > about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, we > have got a > > sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This bal > exactly > > quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet at > paramoch > > degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. In > between we > > have get a variety of strengths. > > > > I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for > consideration. > > Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do sometimes > get a > > reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen in > some > > translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive way of > > judgment of exaltation/debilitation effects. > > > > Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered > independently > > also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to the > behaviour > > of the planets in different areas of life. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear all, Exaltation and Debilitation points has to be given to every matter, object,animate or inanimate, conscious unconscious or in semi conscious state. 1) The stone finds Exaltation point as a Gemstone or Shiv Linga. 2) A flower gets its Exaltation point as a offering to a most revered and worshipped idol of the Lord. 3) A youth who is newly married or about to be married get his exaltation point when he visits his sasural (father in laws place). 4) A marriage reaches its Exaltation point at the time of Honeymoon. The exaltation points of these planets too have been given to show the power of punishment or rewards each individual deserves in his Life, as per the planet being in Exalted or debilitated state of being in his chart, or being just normal to make him a common man. This power is given in the measure scale of the degrees. Those who have checked the Sub lords, of the Exaltation degrees, as requested by me, in my previous mail, in this thread, would find that we have only 2 Planets which are in majority as Sub Lords for all these planets at their Exaltation points. Jupiter and Saturn. Does it click somewhere? Isnt it strange that the otjher 7 Grahas have gone behind the screen, while only these 2 remain ? I would give explanation for one Planet and leave the rest for all to form their own judgments. (As Taught by one of My Jyotish Gurus) Sun is the karaka for Soul, as well it represents Dhanvantari ( Lord of Medicine) . Sun becomes Exalted in Ketu Star. Ketu is karaka for Moksha and Ketu is ruled by Ashwinikumar (medicine). At its Exaltation point of Sun, The SubLord is Saturn . Saturn is karaka for sacrifice or devotion. Sun is the karaka for Soul and Ego or Status. Till the time the native would not sacrifice his Ego, he cannot achieve Moksha (Ketu). Such explanations and relation with its Sublord and nakshatra can be given for every Exaltation point of each planet. This is the power of Logic in our Indian astrology. There is no co-incidence. Every matter is pre-set by the Lord Himself. We only have to perceive these. Practical plus Esoteric Logic. If these two Planets Jupiter and Saturn are well placed, in anyone's chart, You would find most of the common problems seen all around, missing in this persons Life. Ultimately only Jupiter and Saturn are the main planets in our Life, who rule Dharma, Arth, Kama and Moksha. because in the Natural Zodiac Jupiter and saturn rules , 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Sign/Houses, which are as said basically concerned with Knowledge, Dharma, Karma and Moksha. There is also a explanation for the Vimsottari dasha and its arrangement, but would come on it on some later date. Best wishes, Bhaskar. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear neelamji, > > I like these arguments in astrology, one gets > to learn,re-learn,refresh, so many new > angles open up. > > I think this is a tough query which i may have > put up, because if no reference in the texts, > then how would one reply ? > > Please check up the Exaltation points of all > th 7 Planets and note who are the Sub Lords at > those points. You will notice something similarly > striking and the planets who come up as results > would be the most important planets we know. > who make or destroy a chart. Which would > also explain the logic behind Exaltation points > which you would never find written in any book. > You dont need to know Krishnamurthy Padhati for this. > Any software would show You the Sub lords. > > regards, > Bhaskar. > > , " Bhaskar " > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Neelamji, > > > > // I have not come across any reference of nakshatra > > degrees for consideration // > > > > I agree to this. > > Now what do you think is the logic for the Rishi Munis, > > giving certaind degrees as Exaltation for the Planets. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , " neelam gupta " > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji and group, > > > > > > Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought > > provoking > > > topic. > > > > > > Classics have given us following points of consideration: > > > > > > 1) planets at paramoch degree > > > 2) planets in ooch rashi > > > 3) planets at param neech degree > > > 4) planets in neech rashi > > > > > > Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points 2 > > and 4, for > > > planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrikon and own house > fall > > in the > > > same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an > > exaltation sign > > > are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch > > degree of > > > mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no mention > of > > > nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue then, > > it should > > > be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally a > > range is > > > given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to be > > taken, > > > unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there > when > > we have a > > > planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree? > > > > > > For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and > > > neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be approaching > > its ooch > > > or neech degree. > > > With these dictums, there might be a question of > > qualifying/quantifying the > > > results of different degree placements. At what degree the planet > is > > > considered ooch/neech abhilashi? > > > > > > I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an > > > exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/transit. Till we are > > clear > > > about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, we > > have got a > > > sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This > bal > > exactly > > > quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet at > > paramoch > > > degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. In > > between we > > > have get a variety of strengths. > > > > > > I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for > > consideration. > > > Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do > sometimes > > get a > > > reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen in > > some > > > translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive way > of > > > judgment of exaltation/debilitation effects. > > > > > > Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered > > independently > > > also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to the > > behaviour > > > of the planets in different areas of life. > > > > > > Regards > > > Neelam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Neelamji, You have understood right, but halfway down, turned in the other lane. Your first 3 Observations as under - Does it mean that a planet needs extra prowess when working in an enemy camp? Aren't we always saying that a planet is Mudit when exalted? By one's inherent nature, how can one be mudit in an enemies camp? Or these are the challenges thrown at you when you have an exalted planets. Only a king can go to war in an enemy's camp? One certainly needs extra prowess when working in a enemy camp. Otherwise how would we win over the enemy ? Take the case of a Leo, the wife is represented by Saturn . Dont you think he would need extra prowess to overcome the contras given to him by his Birtth Chart, struggle with the inconsistencies of both the diametrically opposite natured signs , and then overcome them and move ahead as a winner ? Would it be easy to make himself the Kishen Kanhaiya in the view of his wife ? Do You know that most of us are still struggling to overcome the inconsistencies of the 7th house, which in fact can also be a enemy camp, as in case of competetion, the enemy would be represented by the 7th House. Are we not finding all around that the husbands and wives are not getting along together, one wants the AC on, the other wants the AC off, one wants to see Saas-Bahu, the other wants to see a James Bond movie which is aired on Star Movies. One wants her husband to eat bread butter in the morning for breakfast, while the husband is fed up of this morning breakfast and theres a showdown every morning. One wants to go to this cinema hall, but the other does not want his wife to see a Salman Khan movie, but instead watch a Shahrukh one. Always remember that the enemy camp is represented by the 7th house, which we have to overcome in Life, if we have to reach anywhere near Godhead. A Husband or wife who can become a Yes Man or Yes women, would have already climbed the first stage of development in their evolutionary cycle. God wants us to clear this stage. Which is why the 7th is also known as a maraka. Unless one can win over a enemy by Love or surrender or selfless service or devotion, he would never be able to attain Moksha. One cant leave enemies around and expect to go to Vaikuntha. And Enemies are not just external but internal too, like Ego, Lust, Anger etc. And winning by fighting is not going to help but elongate the births in continuance of the enmity to be mantained till it gets over. One has to put a stop to this fight to finish it . Sex is something which is always enjoyable by anyone who has access to it, Raja Yayati realised that theres no end to this pleasure and he put a stop to it. One needs to put a stop gradually to all enemies within and without. Its not easy to renounce pleasures or stop fighting with ones desires, wishes, Wife, enemies. The realisation of its futility has to come in. A person who gets this realisation can enter the enmy camp without fear, in a mudit stage. So one needs extra prowess of renunciation and submission, in astrological parlance, if one has to win the enemy. One can be mudit in enemys camp, if one knows that he has come there to overcome the enemy with Love and surrender of his own base tendencies in front of the enemy. Would any enemy in his right mind kill another enemy who has come to surrender ? And here we are talking of planets who are all manifestations of the Almighty. Once a enemy knows that the other has given up, he would take him in his arms and make him his friend, or if not this, then at least leave him to move ahead. If i go with a clear heart to my enemys camp, then i need not feel fear, but a feeling of confidence would prevail, because even the nature helps a man with a noble purpose and a clear heart. These are challenges thrown at you. Certainly yes. Even misery and poverty is a challenge, in the same way as Abundance and Lordship of a kingdom is a challenge. One has to remain " Sama " in all and remember Him. Or else spoil his abundance in Lustful liasons and spoil his beyond, or use it benefically in helping the less fortunate. Same is to be understood for the povertystricken. Face the challenge cheerfully and remember him for whatever is possessed. The above example of a husband and wife is for real and not just an example. It applies for all of us. How many of us can claim to be the best husband or wives for our partners ? She or he is the enemy or Lover of the past Life, who has met you again now in this Life, to finish off the incompleted fights or Love. So first we have to cover this opposition. The 1st and the 7th. Once a person is able to do this, then it means that he has progressed significantly. Ypur other observations i will take up in another rmail. This has become too long. rgrds/Bhaskar. , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskarji,> > I understand what your suggesting. Saturn is kaal and jupiter is jeev.> Around these two planets, the wheel of life revolves. Saturn rules the> exaltation points of first group sun-moon-mars-jup and jupiter is the SL of> the other group of mer-ven-sat. We see the planets getting exalted in the> opposite camp.> > - Does it mean that a planet needs extra prowess when working in an enemy> camp?> - Aren't we always saying that a planet is Mudit when exalted? By one's> inherent nature, how can one be mudit in an enemies camp?> - Or these are the challenges thrown at you when you have an exalted> planets. Only a king can go to war in an enemy's camp?> - Is there any consideration for sub-sub-lords also?> - There must be a combination of rashi lord-nakshatra lord-sublord and> may be sub-sub lord at work and each must be giving having some> significance. Other wise we can get saturn and jupiter as sublords at many> points.> - Generally the sublords remain for 2 degrees. Is it the mean point or> rounding off that we are looking at?> > Would be grateful for your views on these points. I'll try and work out a> table for these positions to see the complete picture at a glance.> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji, Beautifully said....what a mail ..each word is 'the truth'. blessings Renu , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Neelamji, > You have understood right, but halfway down, turned in the other lane. > Your first 3 Observations as under - * Does it mean that a planet > needs extra prowess when working in an enemy camp? * Aren't we > always saying that a planet is Mudit when exalted? By one's inherent > nature, how can one be mudit in an enemies camp? * Or these are the > challenges thrown at you when you have an exalted planets. Only a king > can go to war in an enemy's camp? > One certainly needs extra prowess when working in a enemy camp. > Otherwise how would we win over the enemy ? Take the case of a Leo, the > wife is represented by Saturn . Dont you think he would need extra > prowess to overcome the contras given to him by his Birtth Chart, > struggle with the inconsistencies of both the diametrically opposite > natured signs , and then overcome them and move ahead as a winner ? > Would it be easy to make himself the Kishen Kanhaiya in the view of his > wife ? Do You know that most of us are still struggling to overcome > the inconsistencies of the 7th house, which in fact can also be a enemy > camp, as in case of competetion, the enemy would be represented by the > 7th House. Are we not finding all around that the husbands and wives are > not getting along together, one wants the AC on, the other wants the AC > off, one wants to see Saas-Bahu, the other wants to see a James Bond > movie which is aired on Star Movies. One wants her husband to eat bread > butter in the morning for breakfast, while the husband is fed up of this > morning breakfast and theres a showdown every morning. One wants to go > to this cinema hall, but the other does not want his wife to see a > Salman Khan movie, but instead watch a Shahrukh one. Always remember > that the enemy camp is represented by the 7th house, which we have to > overcome in Life, if we have to reach anywhere near Godhead. A Husband > or wife who can become a Yes Man or Yes women, would have already > climbed the first stage of development in their evolutionary cycle. God > wants us to clear this stage. Which is why the 7th is also known as a > maraka. Unless one can win over a enemy by Love or surrender or > selfless service or devotion, he would never be able to attain Moksha. > One cant leave enemies around and expect to go to Vaikuntha. And > Enemies are not just external but internal too, like Ego, Lust, Anger > etc. And winning by fighting is not going to help but elongate the > births in continuance of the enmity to be mantained till it gets over. > One has to put a stop to this fight to finish it . Sex is something > which is always enjoyable by anyone who has access to it, Raja Yayati > realised that theres no end to this pleasure and he put a stop to it. > One needs to put a stop gradually to all enemies within and without. > Its not easy to renounce pleasures or stop fighting with ones desires, > wishes, Wife, enemies. The realisation of its futility has to come in. > A person who gets this realisation can enter the enmy camp without fear, > in a mudit stage. So one needs extra prowess of renunciation and > submission, in astrological parlance, if one has to win the enemy. > One can be mudit in enemys camp, if one knows that he has come there to > overcome the enemy with Love and surrender of his own base tendencies in > front of the enemy. Would any enemy in his right mind kill another enemy > who has come to surrender ? And here we are talking of planets who are > all manifestations of the Almighty. Once a enemy knows that the other > has given up, he would take him in his arms and make him his friend, or > if not this, then at least leave him to move ahead. If i go with a > clear heart to my enemys camp, then i need not feel fear, but a feeling > of confidence would prevail, because even the nature helps a man with a > noble purpose and a clear heart. These are challenges thrown at you. > Certainly yes. Even misery and poverty is a challenge, in the same way > as Abundance and Lordship of a kingdom is a challenge. One has to > remain " Sama " in all and remember Him. Or else spoil his abundance in > Lustful liasons and spoil his beyond, or use it benefically in helping > the less fortunate. Same is to be understood for the povertystricken. > Face the challenge cheerfully and remember him for whatever is > possessed. The above example of a husband and wife is for real and > not just an example. It applies for all of us. How many of us can > claim to be the best husband or wives for our partners ? She or he is > the enemy or Lover of the past Life, who has met you again now in this > Life, to finish off the incompleted fights or Love. So first we have > to cover this opposition. The 1st and the 7th. Once a person is able to > do this, then it means that he has progressed significantly. Ypur > other observations i will take up in another rmail. This has become too > long. rgrds/Bhaskar. > > > > > > , " neelam gupta " > <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > Dear Bhaskarji, > > > > I understand what your suggesting. Saturn is kaal and jupiter is jeev. > > Around these two planets, the wheel of life revolves. Saturn rules the > > exaltation points of first group sun-moon-mars-jup and jupiter is the > SL of > > the other group of mer-ven-sat. We see the planets getting exalted in > the > > opposite camp. > > > > - Does it mean that a planet needs extra prowess when working in an > enemy > > camp? > > - Aren't we always saying that a planet is Mudit when exalted? By > one's > > inherent nature, how can one be mudit in an enemies camp? > > - Or these are the challenges thrown at you when you have an exalted > > planets. Only a king can go to war in an enemy's camp? > > - Is there any consideration for sub-sub-lords also? > > - There must be a combination of rashi lord-nakshatra lord- sublord and > > may be sub-sub lord at work and each must be giving having some > > significance. Other wise we can get saturn and jupiter as sublords at > many > > points. > > - Generally the sublords remain for 2 degrees. Is it the mean point or > > rounding off that we are looking at? > > > > Would be grateful for your views on these points. I'll try and work > out a > > table for these positions to see the complete picture at a glance. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji,Thank you for the wonderful and most appropriate explanation. Couldn't agree more.7H always throws the challenges that we need to overcome. That is why probably god has created a physical manifestation called 'spouse' who can be a daunting challenge to overcome, whether you fight your way to meet it or take a path of love and surrender. Thanks. I look forward for answers for the other lane. I know I had digressed... RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Namaste Bhaskar Re:Jupiter at 18deg Cancer giving ill-health - is this based around Jupiter being in Mercury's Nak being Lord of 6th and 9th Houses - hence giving its effects of 6th House? Wouldn't Mercury's placement and aspects/conjunctions in example chart be important Before any results can be ascribed for it? Notice a KP aphorism being made? Wouldn't Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th House for example chart give ill-health irrespective of what degree it occupies? Best wishes and regards ...... Jai Sita Ram Ram On Behalf Of Bhaskar12 July 2008 15:24 Subject: Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign In continuation.......We were originally talking about whether a planet must be considered as Exalted or debilitated by just virtue of being in a particular sign, or not. Jupiter is Exalted in Cancer at 5 degrees. Here the Nakshatra which appears is Pushya,ruled by Saturn. Suppose Jupiter is at 5 Degrees inCancer , for a Capricorn native. ThisJupiter would give the native a goodphysical strength, happiness throughmarriage, wealth, wealth also bymarriage , and happiness of family.Suppose this same Jupiter was in 18 degreesCancer for the same native. Then what wouldhave been the results ?The native would have been prone to ill health.No connection of this Jupiter towealth or family happiness. No connectionto happiness through marriage, insteadwould have been worse for marriage andcreated strifes in the married Life.In both above cases The Jupiter is exaltedfor the same native in the same Lagna and signand house, but results diametrically differentwhen degrees are different.So the Degree does matters. All this isnot written clearly in the Books availablewith us, because this knowledge is not meant to fall in wrong hands. Its when we havethe fortune to meet a good Guru and learn from him, that we realise that whatappears on surface, may notbe what is intended to be known by all.best wishes,Bhaskar. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> Dear all,> > Exaltation and Debilitation points has to be given> to every matter, object,animate or inanimate, conscious> unconscious or in semi conscious state.> > 1) The stone finds Exaltation point as a Gemstone> or Shiv Linga.> > 2) A flower gets its Exaltation point as a offering> to a most revered and worshipped idol of the Lord.> > 3) A youth who is newly married or about to be married> get his exaltation point when he visits his sasural> (father in laws place).> > 4) A marriage reaches its Exaltation point at the> time of Honeymoon.> > The exaltation points of these planets too have been> given to show the power of punishment or rewards each> individual deserves in his Life, as per the planet> being in Exalted or debilitated state> of being in his chart, or being just normal to make> him a common man. This power is given in the measure> scale of the degrees.> > Those who have checked the Sub lords, of the Exaltation> degrees, as requested by me, in my previous mail,> in this thread, would find that we have only 2 Planets which > are in majority as Sub Lords for all these planets> at their Exaltation points. Jupiter and Saturn.> Does it click somewhere? Isnt it strange that the otjher> 7 Grahas have gone behind the screen, while only> these 2 remain ?> > I would give explanation for one Planet> and leave the rest for all to form their own> judgments.> > (As Taught by one of My Jyotish Gurus)> Sun is the karaka for Soul, as well it> represents Dhanvantari ( Lord of> Medicine) . Sun becomes Exalted> in Ketu Star. Ketu is karaka for> Moksha and Ketu is ruled by> Ashwinikumar (medicine).> > At its Exaltation point of Sun, The SubLord> is Saturn . Saturn is> karaka for sacrifice or devotion.> Sun is the karaka for Soul and Ego or Status.> Till the time the native would not sacrifice> his Ego, he cannot achieve Moksha (Ketu).> > Such explanations and relation with its Sublord> and nakshatra can be given for every Exaltation> point of each planet.> > This is the power of Logic in our Indian astrology.> There is no co-incidence. Every matter is pre-set> by the Lord Himself. We only have to perceive> these. Practical plus Esoteric Logic. > > If these two Planets Jupiter and Saturn are> well placed, in anyone's chart, You would> find most of the common problems seen all> around, missing in this persons Life.> > Ultimately only Jupiter and Saturn are the> main planets in our Life, who rule Dharma,> Arth, Kama and Moksha. because in the> Natural Zodiac Jupiter and saturn> rules , 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Sign/Houses,> which are as said basically concerned with > Knowledge, Dharma, Karma and Moksha.> > There is also a explanation for the Vimsottari dasha> and its arrangement, but would come on it on some> later date.> > Best wishes,> Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , "Bhaskar" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:> >> > Dear neelamji,> > > > I like these arguments in astrology, one gets > > to learn,re-learn,refresh, so many new> > angles open up.> > > > I think this is a tough query which i may have> > put up, because if no reference in the texts,> > then how would one reply ?> > > > Please check up the Exaltation points of all> > th 7 Planets and note who are the Sub Lords at> > those points. You will notice something similarly> > striking and the planets who come up as results> > would be the most important planets we know.> > who make or destroy a chart. Which would> > also explain the logic behind Exaltation points> > which you would never find written in any book.> > You dont need to know Krishnamurthy Padhati for this.> > Any software would show You the Sub lords.> > > > regards,> > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Bhaskar" > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Neelamji,> > > > > > // I have not come across any reference of nakshatra > > > degrees for consideration //> > > > > > I agree to this.> > > Now what do you think is the logic for the Rishi Munis,> > > giving certaind degrees as Exaltation for the Planets.> > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "neelam gupta" > > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji and group,> > > > > > > > Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought > > > provoking> > > > topic.> > > > > > > > Classics have given us following points of consideration:> > > > > > > > 1) planets at paramoch degree> > > > 2) planets in ooch rashi> > > > 3) planets at param neech degree> > > > 4) planets in neech rashi> > > > > > > > Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points > 2 > > > and 4, for> > > > planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrikon and own house > > fall > > > in the> > > > same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an > > > exaltation sign> > > > are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch > > > degree of> > > > mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no > mention > > of> > > > nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue > then, > > > it should> > > > be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally > a > > > range is> > > > given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to > be > > > taken,> > > > unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there > > when > > > we have a> > > > planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree?> > > > > > > > For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and> > > > neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be > approaching > > > its ooch> > > > or neech degree.> > > > With these dictums, there might be a question of > > > qualifying/quantifying the> > > > results of different degree placements. At what degree the > planet > > is> > > > considered ooch/neech abhilashi?> > > > > > > > I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an> > > > exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/transit. Till we > are > > > clear> > > > about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, > we > > > have got a> > > > sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This > > bal > > > exactly> > > > quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet > at > > > paramoch> > > > degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. > In > > > between we> > > > have get a variety of strengths.> > > > > > > > I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for > > > consideration.> > > > Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do > > sometimes > > > get a> > > > reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen > in > > > some> > > > translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive > way > > of> > > > judgment of exaltation/debilitation effects.> > > > > > > > Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered > > > independently> > > > also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to > the > > > behaviour> > > > of the planets in different areas of life.> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Neelam> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Namaste Bhaskar ji thanks for the reply ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placement of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that unless 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? If No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be inter-linked as well per above for one to be " bed-bound " ? Hoping you will clarify the above? Many thanks and regards ...... Jai Sita Ram Ram _____ On Behalf Of Bhaskar 12 July 2008 18:18 Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign Dear Ramji namaste. Absolutely right. I was speaking due to Mercury being the owner of the nakshatra. Everythimng would be important as You rightly mentioned, but at the moment we are not concentrating on everything,but my example was only based to show the importance of degrees. In any case we cannot remove the effects of the 6th House, and the aspects fall in the 4th category level for inconsequent results at the moment for the example I cited.. // Wouldn't Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th House for example chart give > ill-health irrespective of what degree it occupies? // If You know little bit of KP, then note that the actual results which would manifest would be of the Nakshatra in which Jupiter is installed. And in any case otherwise too , Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th does not give illhealth . The 12th is not connected to the 6th ( Illness), or the 8th ( Accidents), so from where do we surmise ill health . The 12th stands for many other matters, like investments, charities, bed pleasures, consultations, hospitalisation ( If linked to the 6th ), Imprisonment,property, factory establishments. 3, 7 and 12 means connection with foreigners or journeys, or written matters, or giving consultations, or Advising people throigh verbal or written communications. Unless it is connected to the 6th, You cannot connect it to bad health. Even Traditional astrology does not point this to bad health. regards, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology , " Ram Jaswal " <rkjaswal wrote: > > Namaste Bhaskar > > Re:Jupiter at 18deg Cancer giving ill-health - is this based around Jupiter > being in Mercury's Nak being Lord of 6th and 9th Houses - hence giving its > effects of 6th House? Wouldn't Mercury's placement and aspects/conjunctions > in example chart be important Before any results can be ascribed for it? > Notice a KP aphorism being made? > > Wouldn't Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th House for example chart give > ill-health irrespective of what degree it occupies? > > Best wishes and regards ...... > > Jai Sita Ram > > Ram > > _____ > > ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology > [ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology ] On Behalf Of Bhaskar > 12 July 2008 15:24 > ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology > Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign > > > > In continuation....... > > We were originally talking about whether a > planet must be considered as Exalted or > debilitated by just virtue of being in a particular > sign, or not. > > Jupiter is Exalted in Cancer at 5 degrees. > Here the Nakshatra which appears is Pushya, > ruled by Saturn. > > Suppose Jupiter is at 5 Degrees in > Cancer , for a Capricorn native. This > Jupiter would give the native a good > physical strength, happiness through > marriage, wealth, wealth also by > marriage , and happiness of family. > > Suppose this same Jupiter was in 18 degrees > Cancer for the same native. Then what would > have been the results ? > The native would have been prone to ill health. > No connection of this Jupiter to > wealth or family happiness. No connection > to happiness through marriage, instead > would have been worse for marriage and > created strifes in the married Life. > > In both above cases The Jupiter is exalted > for the same native in the same Lagna and sign > and house, but results diametrically different > when degrees are different. > > So the Degree does matters. All this is > not written clearly in the Books available > with us, because this knowledge is not meant to > fall in wrong hands. Its when we have > the fortune to meet a good Guru and learn > from him, that we realise that what > appears on surface, may not > be what is intended to be known by all. > > best wishes, > Bhaskar. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 // ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placementof Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? // Yes. Which is why when i commented first on Jupiter in Cancer for the Capricorn lagna, the results were connected to marriage , which I have mentioned in both examples where degree changes for the Jupiter. Thus the placement has already been taken in consideration. Jupiter in cancer for a capricorn lagna ? Wheres the need to point out the placement seperately . It is understood. is it not ? When I talk anbout wealth through marriage and troubles in marriage for the Jupiter in another degrees then is it not understood and re-confirmed? is there any need to spell this out ?Even a non KP knows that Jupiter in Cancer for a Capricorn lagna means, Jupiter placed in 7th house. // From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that unless 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? If No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be inter-linked as well per above for one to be "bed-bound"? // You are right in inferring that if no connection to the 6th lord, then no illness. We are not talking about transits anywhere. But You are right about the transit results. The initial discussion as whether any Planet in Exaltation sign or debilitaion sign, must be considered as Exalted or debilitated. Instead of talking on these you have choosen to talk on my examples given and tried to add the other results too, which was not my intention. We have to focus on the core area of discussion. Now when you add the other results to my example our attention gets diverted unnecessarily and we miss the core issue which was intended to be brought to the fore. Another point is that I have to explain you for every additional connection you appear with, which is not the intention of this thread. It is quite understood that a chart has to be seen in totality, and so is the planet under scrutiny, to be checked in many which ways, but we are not talking right now about other matters, but only the importance of degrees which brings about changes in the effects. I hope the thread would not be extended on a tangent note, except for the required principle suggested. regards, Bhaskar. , "Ram Jaswal" <rkjaswal wrote:>> Namaste Bhaskar ji> > thanks for the reply ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placement> of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak?> > From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that unless> 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? If> No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting> 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be> inter-linked as well per above for one to be "bed-bound"?> > Hoping you will clarify the above?> > Many thanks and regards ......> > Jai Sita Ram> > Ram> > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Bhaskar> 12 July 2008 18:18> > Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign> > > > Dear Ramji > namaste.> Absolutely right.> I was speaking due to Mercury being the owner of the nakshatra.> Everythimng would be important as You rightly mentioned, but at the > moment we are not concentrating on everything,but my example was only > based to show the importance of degrees. In any case we cannot remove > the effects of the 6th House, and the aspects fall in the 4th > category level for inconsequent results at the moment for the example > I cited.. > > // Wouldn't Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th House > for example chart give > ill-health irrespective of what > degree it occupies? //> > If You know little bit of KP, then note that the actual results which > would manifest would be of the Nakshatra in which Jupiter is > installed. And in any case otherwise too , Jupiter being 3rd and > 12th Lord in 7th does not give illhealth . The 12th is not > connected to the 6th ( Illness), or the 8th ( Accidents), so from > where do we surmise ill health .> The 12th stands for many other matters, like investments, charities, > bed pleasures, consultations, hospitalisation ( If linked to the > 6th ), Imprisonment,property, factory establishments. > 3, 7 and 12 means connection with foreigners or journeys, or written > matters, or giving consultations, or Advising people throigh verbal > or written communications. Unless it is connected to the 6th, You > cannot connect it to bad health. > Even Traditional astrology does not point this to bad health. > > regards,> Bhaskar. > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology , "Ram Jaswal" > rkjaswal@ wrote:> >> > Namaste Bhaskar> > > > Re:Jupiter at 18deg Cancer giving ill-health - is this based around > Jupiter> > being in Mercury's Nak being Lord of 6th and 9th Houses - hence > giving its> > effects of 6th House? Wouldn't Mercury's placement and > aspects/conjunctions> > in example chart be important Before any results can be ascribed > for it?> > Notice a KP aphorism being made?> > > > Wouldn't Jupiter being 3rd and 12th Lord in 7th House for example > chart give> > ill-health irrespective of what degree it occupies?> > > > Best wishes and regards ......> > > > Jai Sita Ram> > > > Ram> > > > _____ > > > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > [ancient_indian_> <%40>> astrology ] On Behalf Of > Bhaskar> > 12 July 2008 15:24> > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign> > > > > > > > In continuation.......> > > > We were originally talking about whether a > > planet must be considered as Exalted or > > debilitated by just virtue of being in a particular > > sign, or not. > > > > Jupiter is Exalted in Cancer at 5 degrees. > > Here the Nakshatra which appears is Pushya,> > ruled by Saturn. > > > > Suppose Jupiter is at 5 Degrees in> > Cancer , for a Capricorn native. This> > Jupiter would give the native a good> > physical strength, happiness through> > marriage, wealth, wealth also by> > marriage , and happiness of family.> > > > Suppose this same Jupiter was in 18 degrees> > Cancer for the same native. Then what would> > have been the results ?> > The native would have been prone to ill health.> > No connection of this Jupiter to> > wealth or family happiness. No connection> > to happiness through marriage, instead> > would have been worse for marriage and> > created strifes in the married Life.> > > > In both above cases The Jupiter is exalted> > for the same native in the same Lagna and sign> > and house, but results diametrically different> > when degrees are different.> > > > So the Degree does matters. All this is> > not written clearly in the Books available> > with us, because this knowledge is not meant to > > fall in wrong hands. Its when we have> > the fortune to meet a good Guru and learn > > from him, that we realise that what> > appears on surface, may not> > be what is intended to be known by all.> > > > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Namaste Bhaskar ji Re:Placement - I wasn't referring to Jupiter But Sani .... Thanks for the other clarification ...... Regards .... Jai Sita Ram Ram _____ On Behalf Of Bhaskar 12 July 2008 19:51 Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign // ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placement of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? // Yes. Which is why when i commented first on Jupiter in Cancer for the Capricorn lagna, the results were connected to marriage , which I have mentioned in both examples where degree changes for the Jupiter. Thus the placement has already been taken in consideration. Jupiter in cancer for a capricorn lagna ? Wheres the need to point out the placement seperately . It is understood. is it not ? When I talk anbout wealth through marriage and troubles in marriage for the Jupiter in another degrees then is it not understood and re-confirmed? is there any need to spell this out ?Even a non KP knows that Jupiter in Cancer for a Capricorn lagna means, Jupiter placed in 7th house. // From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that unless 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? If No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be inter-linked as well per above for one to be " bed-bound " ? // You are right in inferring that if no connection to the 6th lord, then no illness. We are not talking about transits anywhere. But You are right about the transit results. The initial discussion as whether any Planet in Exaltation sign or debilitaion sign, must be considered as Exalted or debilitated. Instead of talking on these you have choosen to talk on my examples given and tried to add the other results too, which was not my intention. We have to focus on the core area of discussion. Now when you add the other results to my example our attention gets diverted unnecessarily and we miss the core issue which was intended to be brought to the fore. Another point is that I have to explain you for every additional connection you appear with, which is not the intention of this thread. It is quite understood that a chart has to be seen in totality, and so is the planet under scrutiny, to be checked in many which ways, but we are not talking right now about other matters, but only the importance of degrees which brings about changes in the effects. I hope the thread would not be extended on a tangent note, except for the required principle suggested. regards, Bhaskar. , " Ram Jaswal " <rkjaswal wrote: > > Namaste Bhaskar ji > > thanks for the reply ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placement > of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? > > From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that unless > 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? If > No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting > 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be > inter-linked as well per above for one to be " bed-bound " ? > > Hoping you will clarify the above? > > Many thanks and regards ...... > > Jai Sita Ram > > Ram > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dear Neelamji, Disgression at times is enjoyable. Ask those who have transgressed, but leaves painful memories when this transgression cannot be replicated again and again. Okay now for your other observations - Is there any consideration for sub-sub-lords also? There must be a combination of rashi lord-nakshatra lord-sublord and may be sub-sub lord at work and each must be giving having some significance. Other wise we can get saturn and jupiter as sublords at many points. Generally the sublords remain for 2 degrees. Is it the mean point or rounding off that we are looking at? Yes certainly. Consideration fir Sub-Sub Lord too is there. For instance one is having Mars Mahadasha and next obviously Rahu Mahadasha. If both mars and Rahu are conjoined in degreecal conjunction, then the SubLords would be the same. ASt suh times the Sub-Sub Lord comes in picture. Now suppose the Mahadasha Lord Mars has the sub-sub Lord as malefic for the Leo Lagna. then the Mars Mahadasha would not be favourable. And suppose this planet has now changed to Mercury for the Rahu Planet, then the Rahu Mahadasha would be benfic for the leo Lagna nativity. Why ? Because mercury represents the 2nd and 11th Lords for the Leo lagna. Now in both Mahadasha the subLords were same, but the SubSub Lord made all the difference in the results accruing. Thus the importance of the SubSub Lord is judged. It also helps when one has to rectify the birth time to a very precesion level. Without the combination of raashi lord, Nakshatra Lord, you cannot have the Sub Lord or the Sub Sub Lords arriving in picture. Sub Lord degrees differs with the planets in question. This does not mean rounding off, but a pointer to what one is looking and judging for, at a particular point of time. regards, Bhaskar. , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > Thank you for the wonderful and most appropriate explanation. Couldn't agree> more.> 7H always throws the challenges that we need to overcome. That is why> probably god has created a physical manifestation called 'spouse' who can be> a daunting challenge to overcome, whether you fight your way to meet it or> take a path of love and surrender.> > Thanks. I look forward for answers for the other lane. I know I had> digressed...> > Regards> Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 dear Bhaskarji, that was a real nice explanation given with appropriate analogues. though ur analogues may not be found in ancient text book yet it appears to be more appropriate in reg to exaltation or debilitation of planets. with good wishes, k.gopu --- On Sat, 7/12/08, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign Saturday, July 12, 2008, 7:16 PM Hare rama krishna respected bhaskar ji Thanks for the explanation ,it was very informative and it give an indepth thought on some explored areas ( i mean by ppl like us ) in astrology as we lost many of this logics and reasoning hiden in astrology over a period of time. Thanks for the educativ post and hope in future also u will write more on such subjucts . with regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ....> wrote: > > Dear all, > > Exaltation and Debilitation points has to be given > to every matter, object,animate or inanimate, conscious > unconscious or in semi conscious state. > > 1) The stone finds Exaltation point as a Gemstone > or Shiv Linga. > > 2) A flower gets its Exaltation point as a offering > to a most revered and worshipped idol of the Lord. > > 3) A youth who is newly married or about to be married > get his exaltation point when he visits his sasural > (father in laws place). > > 4) A marriage reaches its Exaltation point at the > time of Honeymoon. > > The exaltation points of these planets too have been > given to show the power of punishment or rewards each > individual deserves in his Life, as per the planet > being in Exalted or debilitated state > of being in his chart, or being just normal to make > him a common man. This power is given in the measure > scale of the degrees. > > Those who have checked the Sub lords, of the Exaltation > degrees, as requested by me, in my previous mail, > in this thread, would find that we have only 2 Planets which > are in majority as Sub Lords for all these planets > at their Exaltation points. Jupiter and Saturn. > Does it click somewhere? Isnt it strange that the otjher > 7 Grahas have gone behind the screen, while only > these 2 remain ? > > I would give explanation for one Planet > and leave the rest for all to form their own > judgments. > > (As Taught by one of My Jyotish Gurus) > Sun is the karaka for Soul, as well it > represents Dhanvantari ( Lord of > Medicine) . Sun becomes Exalted > in Ketu Star. Ketu is karaka for > Moksha and Ketu is ruled by > Ashwinikumar (medicine). > > At its Exaltation point of Sun, The SubLord > is Saturn . Saturn is > karaka for sacrifice or devotion. > Sun is the karaka for Soul and Ego or Status. > Till the time the native would not sacrifice > his Ego, he cannot achieve Moksha (Ketu). > > Such explanations and relation with its Sublord > and nakshatra can be given for every Exaltation > point of each planet. > > This is the power of Logic in our Indian astrology. > There is no co-incidence. Every matter is pre-set > by the Lord Himself. We only have to perceive > these. Practical plus Esoteric Logic. > > If these two Planets Jupiter and Saturn are > well placed, in anyone's chart, You would > find most of the common problems seen all > around, missing in this persons Life. > > Ultimately only Jupiter and Saturn are the > main planets in our Life, who rule Dharma, > Arth, Kama and Moksha. because in the > Natural Zodiac Jupiter and saturn > rules , 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Sign/Houses, > which are as said basically concerned with > Knowledge, Dharma, Karma and Moksha. > > There is also a explanation for the Vimsottari dasha > and its arrangement, but would come on it on some > later date. > > Best wishes, > Bhaskar. > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > Dear neelamji, > > > > I like these arguments in astrology, one gets > > to learn,re-learn, refresh, so many new > > angles open up. > > > > I think this is a tough query which i may have > > put up, because if no reference in the texts, > > then how would one reply ? > > > > Please check up the Exaltation points of all > > th 7 Planets and note who are the Sub Lords at > > those points. You will notice something similarly > > striking and the planets who come up as results > > would be the most important planets we know. > > who make or destroy a chart. Which would > > also explain the logic behind Exaltation points > > which you would never find written in any book. > > You dont need to know Krishnamurthy Padhati for this. > > Any software would show You the Sub lords. > > > > regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Neelamji, > > > > > > // I have not come across any reference of nakshatra > > > degrees for consideration // > > > > > > I agree to this. > > > Now what do you think is the logic for the Rishi Munis, > > > giving certaind degrees as Exaltation for the Planets. > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " neelam gupta " > > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji and group, > > > > > > > > Thank you Bhaskar ji for starting the much debated but thought > > > provoking > > > > topic. > > > > > > > > Classics have given us following points of consideration: > > > > > > > > 1) planets at paramoch degree > > > > 2) planets in ooch rashi > > > > 3) planets at param neech degree > > > > 4) planets in neech rashi > > > > > > > > Here we get a clue about the differences in degrees, in points > 2 > > > and 4, for > > > > planets like mercury where exaltation/mooltrik on and own house > > fall > > > in the > > > > same rashi... giving an indication that all degrees in an > > > exaltation sign > > > > are not the same. Only 14-15 degrees can be considered as ooch > > > degree of > > > > mercury in virgo with 15 degree at paramoch. There is no > mention > > of > > > > nakshatra duration or any other consideration. We may argue > then, > > > it should > > > > be the same logic for other positions. For mooltrikon generally > a > > > range is > > > > given in classics and for own house of course, full sign is to > be > > > taken, > > > > unless otherwise specified. But how many cases would be there > > when > > > we have a > > > > planet at paramoch degree, or even approaching the degree? > > > > > > > > For this, we get mention of a planet which is ooch-abhilashi and > > > > neech-abhilashi where the planet in question would be > approaching > > > its ooch > > > > or neech degree. > > > > With these dictums, there might be a question of > > > qualifying/quantify ing the > > > > results of different degree placements. At what degree the > planet > > is > > > > considered ooch/neech abhilashi? > > > > > > > > I think, basically first we must understand the behaviour of an > > > > exalted/debilitated planet in nativity/dasha/ transit. Till we > are > > > clear > > > > about that, nothing can make sense. After that, in my opinion, > we > > > have got a > > > > sound tool called 'Oochbal' which is one of the shadbals. This > > bal > > > exactly > > > > quantifies the amount of exaltation or debilitation. A planet > at > > > paramoch > > > > degree would get a full rupa and at paramneech it gets 0 rupa. > In > > > between we > > > > have get a variety of strengths. > > > > > > > > I have not come across any reference of nakshatra degrees for > > > consideration. > > > > Kishore ji please quote the reference if possible. We do > > sometimes > > > get a > > > > reference to one degree upto the paramoch point, which is seen > in > > > some > > > > translations. But oochbal values are authentic and conclusive > way > > of > > > > judgment of exaltation/debilita tion effects. > > > > > > > > Similarly, all 6 parameters of shadbal should be considered > > > independently > > > > also besides taking the final value. These give good clues to > the > > > behaviour > > > > of the planets in different areas of life. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Namste Ram ji, Yes Saturns placement would certainly make a effect in the results of the other 2 houses which I mentioned, itwould add a sweet flavour if well placed to the benefic effects for the other two houses, or else diminsh the effects , to less benefic. About your other observations, I have a reply but it would be too long to put over here, and nor coming from any authentic text, so would leave it............ best wishes, Bhaskar. , " Ram Jaswal " <rkjaswal wrote: > > Namaste Bhaskar ji > > My queries were purely around your first email - where your interference was > that Jupiter would give results of Sani being in its Nak for Capricorn Asc. > I was merely trying to confirm that Sani's placement would likewise have to > be considered which you have confirmed below . > > Coming back to your earlier note on Exaltation degrees of Planets - > wondering whether there is any authentic text stating How these degrees > have been calculated? > > Ghara Ex Deg Ex Nav Deb Deg Deb Nav > Sun 10Ari Gem 10Lib Sag > Moon 3Tau Cap 3Sco Can > Mars 28Cap Vir 28Can Pis > Mer 15Vir Tau 15Pis Sco > Jup 5Can Leo 5Cap Aqu > *Ven 27Pis Pis 27Vir Vir > Sani 20Lib Pis 20Ari Vir > > Other than Ven none of the others makes much sense? Maybe incorrectly > thinking but would have thought the Graha's should/would have been in their > respective " exalted " Nav ignoring exact degree? > > Happy to hear thoughts from other group members as well .. > > Best regards .. > > Jai Sita Ram > > Ram > > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Bhaskar > 12 July 2008 20:59 > > Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign > > Namaste Ramji, > I am confused now. From where does Saturn come in picture ? If You mean my > fuirst mail then .......... > My initial example was for Jupiter placed in so n so degrees when in Pushya > Nakshatra placed in whatever house, would still give results of 2nd and 1st > and 7th , irrespective of wherever Saturn is placed, which of course is > understood would also bear on the results mentioned thereof. > Amitabh bacchan ( Jupiter ) as the Chief guest being a owner of a good > oratory powers ( 2nd house ) and coming to the function with his wife ( 7th > house ) , would still give a good powerful speech worthy of a standing > ovation, irrespective of whether he is given a seat in the 1st row , 2nd row > , or any of the 12 rows ( Saturn placed in which House .... which i think > was Your doubt .......) from the Stage, meant for the important invitees to > the function > Hope this clears your doubts. > regards, > Bhaskar. > > > regards, > bhaskar. > > > , " Ram Jaswal " rkjaswal@ > wrote: > > > > Namaste Bhaskar ji > > > > Re:Placement - I wasn't referring to Jupiter But Sani .... > > > > Thanks for the other clarification ...... > > > > Regards .... > > > > Jai Sita Ram > > > > Ram > > > > _____ > > > > > > On Behalf Of Bhaskar > > 12 July 2008 19:51 > > > > Re: Planet_Debilitated_Sign > > > > > > // ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to Placement > > of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? // > > > > Yes. Which is why when i commented first on Jupiter in > > Cancer for the Capricorn l agna, the results were connected to marriage , > > which I have mentioned in both examples where degree changes > > for the Jupiter. Thus the placement has already been taken in > consideration. > > Jupiter in cancer for a capricorn lagna ? Wheres the need to point out the > > placement seperately . It is understood. is it not ? When I talk > > anbout wealth through marriage and troubles in marriage for > > the Jupiter in another degrees then is it not understood and re-confirmed? > > is there any need to spell this out ?Even a non KP knows that Jupiter in > > Cancer for a Capricorn lagna means, Jupiter placed in 7th house. > > > > // From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that > unless > > 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? > If > > No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord transiting > > 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be > > inter-linked as well per above for one to be " bed-bound " ? // > > > > You are right in inferring that if no connection to the 6th lord, then no > > illness. > > We are not talking about transits anywhere. But You are right about the > > transit results. The initial discussion as whether any Planet in > Exaltation > > sign or debilitaion sign, must be considered as Exalted or debilitated. > > Instead of talking on these you have choosen to talk on my examples given > > and tried to add the other results too, which was not my intention. We > have > > to focus on the core area of discussion. Now when you add the other > results > > to my example our attention gets diverted unnecessarily and we miss the > core > > issue which was intended to be brought to the fore. Another point is that > I > > have to explain you for every additional connection you appear with, which > > is not the intention of this thread. It is quite understood tha t a chart > > has to be seen in totality, and so is the planet under scrutiny, to be > > checked in many which ways, > > but we are not talking right now about other matters, > > but only the importance of degrees which brings about changes in the > > effects. > > > > I hope the thread would not be extended on a tangent note, except for the > > required principle suggested. > > > > regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > > , " Ram Jaswal " rkjaswal@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Bhaskar ji > > > > > > thanks for the reply ..... Doesn't KP also place alot of value to > > Placement > > > of Planet Before its Lordship as well as to its Nak? > > > > > > From your comments re:ill health - would I be right inferring that > unless > > > 12th Lord is connected with 6th Lord one is unlikely to have bad health? > > If > & gt; > No Natal connection then ill-health only likely when 12th Lord > transiting > > > 6th Lords Nak and vice versa? Guess Asc or Lagna Lord would have to be > > > inter-linked as well per above for one to be " bed-bound " ? > > > > > > Hoping you will clarify the above? > > > > > > Many thanks and regards ...... > > > > > > Jai Sita Ram > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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