Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

[Guest guest]

Dear Renu ji,

==>

> Sreenadh ji may have his own reasons to challenge the age old

> version of Emperor Ashoka. That is why I agreed with him that we

> should look at it skeptically. I wish that he would reveal his

> source of information. But even then how is he going to prove that

> his findings are 100% accurate or diprove the more popular version

> is inaccurate?

<==

I never challenged anything, but was just expressing my opinian.

Some of the sources that prompted me to think in direction are

already revealed. But you are abosolutly right when you ask - " But

even then how is he going to prove that his findings are 100%

accurate or diprove the more popular version is inaccurate? "

Why should I 'prove' something?!! I was just expressing the

opinian I formed based on some infomation I went through, and not at

all into any 'challenge-response' affair. Why should we disturb our

own peace of mind.... The view I presented could be as inaccurate as

the others - but I believe, that too is worth looking into - that is

all to it.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " renunw "

<renunw wrote:

>

> Dear Jaya ji,

>

> Thanks for your comments. History cannot be changed overnight though

> we may not know what exactly happened. I can be sure of one thing.

> The message from DharmaAshoka to SL, through his son Arahat Mahinda

> was a peaceful one, accepted peacefully by then King of SL, King

> Devanampiya Tissa. He did not accept it like a fool. The king was on

> deer hunting 'spree' when Arahat Mahinda arrived. He made the king

> realize that killing of any being is not acceptable by humans. It

> was through a dialogue. That was how King embraced Buddhism. If

> Emperor Ashoka wanted to force Buddhism into SL, he would have sent

> a corrupted foreign secretary/minister with some black money passed

> through another corrupted custom officer...... and not his own son,

> who was adorned as a Buddhist monk, attained arahatship [the

> ultimate status in the marga to moksha/nirvana] and brought a

> peaceful message to SL, which is the base of our culture and

> traditions over 2500 years.

>

> Sreenadh ji may have his own reasons to challenge the age old

> version of Emperor Ashoka. That is why I agreed with him that we

> should look at it skeptically. I wish that he would reveal his

> source of information. But even then how is he going to prove that

> hid findings are 100% accurate or diprove the more popular version

> is inaccurate?

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Niranjn Babuji,

 

Namaste. Buddha is a great realised Soul . No doubt it. It is not simply Ahimsa

that what he taught. He said that Man should control his mind and his greed and

ambition is responsible for all hs sorrows in this world. The story says that he

has not refused meat in his Bhiksha. But as generally happens the followers of

Bhagavan Buddha are responsible for diluting his teaching. As you have said the

eight fold path the basic guidance for any human being. The Sermon on the Mount,

the eight Atma Gunas of our Sastras are basic tenants for a mans spliritual path

and also for the peaceful life in this world. But things become different,

dilluted, misinterpreted goes far away from the original thinking creates

confusion instead of peace and harmony in the society. Even today we know

Mahatma Gandhi. When I read his writings I am so much impressed by his personal

qualities, greatness and his sacrifices and practises of

spirituality. But even many of friends do not agree with me. I myself could not

agree some of his political actions. But this will not in anyway affect the

greatness of Mahatma Gandhi. He severed an important purpose in the History of

India which cannot be so easily forgotten. The  ChaaturVarna system was the

Social Order in ancient India. It was a social order and not a religious one.

Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi and all great people appriciated the social order.

Advantages of the system in the society are many. It is only western rulers, and

present day politicians describe it as a social evil. It is a fact that the

Chaturvarna system will not apply or suit to the present day social order. The

Chaturvarna system is not at all responsible for the untouchability in the Hindu

Society. Actuallly the Bhuddhism and Jainism are responsible for that.Leaving

otherthings, more unnecessary importance to Ahimsa principle and collapse of

family system, complete

disorder of the Social system are responsible for the complete failure of the

Buddhism and Jainism. Men and women, both took Sanyasa and joined Buddhist

monasteries. Lakhs of lower strata of the society, including farmers became

Monks in lakhs. Persons like fishermen, cobblers, Butchers, Farmers etc. are

considered as doing Himsa in their lively hood.Hinduism never condemned any kind

of job or services in the society. Vegetarianism and pure Ahimsa are strictly

prescribed only for the spiritual aspirants and spiritual practitioners. Only

after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in

the Society.

I know a person who in his early life joined a Veda Paatasala and studied for

five years. Earlier to that he had already passed his Vth Std. After 5 years of

Vedic Studies he left the patasala and privately appeared for SSlC and also

B.Com and M.Com as private study. But unfortunately he could not get any job

being a forward class candidate. He  worked as Archaka, part-time Purohit,

learnt Computer also. Finally he could get a job of class IV servant in AG's

Office and posted as peon to the then A.G. himself. He is good at English. Very

intelligent; hard-working. Many of the files which he carry to Accountant

General's Room as a peon, call IV he has no right to see, study, or to comment.

But out of curiosity  being intelligent he could not avoid seeing the bad

notings of the Section Staff and comment upon that. He may be intelligent, good

and capable but he is only a class IV servant. This is the system, order and

rule. Just like that was the Social

order of  Chaturvana system in our ancient society. We should not see the

Chatur varna system in the present day perspective. Today what we see all these

confusions are in the application of the system by selfish people and not in the

system of Democracy. I wonder of all people Shri Niranjan Babu gives such

comment.  With regards.

 

 

Hari Venkataraman

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 15/7/08, sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

sreenadh <sreesog

Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

 

Tuesday, 15 July, 2008, 1:54 PM

 

Dear Niranjan ji,

 

  Your words express the general opinion, which should be appreciated. But there

could be other views as well, to which also we should be open. It is not about

being harsh against Buddha or Asoka - What harm they have done to us? They lived

in remote past, and we live now - what ever is there in between is just academic

interest and simple curiosity. And what happened here is nothing but an

occasional reference, an opinion, a perspective presented - that is all to it.

Thanks a lot for actively participating in the discussions.

Note:ÂIf I am not wrong you are the son of B V Raman and the Editor of

Astrological Magazine. Please correct me if I am wrong.  

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

I agree to the sentiments mentioned as under. Casteism is not a blot as

made out to be, but a pure social order for proper functioning of

civilisation, as mentioned in the Manusmriti. It is strange that people

talk of casteism and negate its existence but not put it in practise.

These same people would call only Brahmins for wedding ceremony rites of

their own children. They would not keep a jhaduwaali to cook their food

in their kitchens. They would not fly if they come to know that the

Pilot of their plane is one who has got License not on merit, but on

basis of casteism . They would not get surgery done if they realise that

their surgeon has attained his degree through the Quota system and not

through actually studying and passing with full marks. These people at

such times would not support casteism. The varnaashram is the best,

but these indians would realise it later. before that probably the

Americans would realise it. As happens , when we abhor our own

Educations and look for the foreign element and the foreign elements

when look for ours, we come back to our original folds.

 

They also talk about population explosion. We are lucky with this

population. But ask those countries who have to borrow men as soldiers

to defend their own countries.

 

In the olden days when more sons was there, the father could send one of

his sons to the army for fighting at the Border on the call. The second

son if turned truant , then the third one would look after the parents

when they were old. What happens today ? With one son, most of them

would land at old aged Homes.

 

But enough of this.

 

I am disgusted and can go and ond on.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Venkataraman Hari

<venkataraman_hari wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sri Niranjn Babuji,

>

> Namaste. Buddha is a great realised Soul . No doubt it. It is not

simply Ahimsa that what he taught. He said that Man should control his

mind and his greed and ambition is responsible for all hs sorrows in

this world. The story says that he has not refused meat in his Bhiksha.

But as generally happens the followers of Bhagavan Buddha are

responsible for diluting his teaching. As you have said the eight fold

path the basic guidance for any human being. The Sermon on the Mount,

the eight Atma Gunas of our Sastras are basic tenants for a mans

spliritual path and also for the peaceful life in this world. But things

become different, dilluted, misinterpreted goes far away from the

original thinking creates confusion instead of peace and harmony in the

society. Even today we know Mahatma Gandhi. When I read his writings I

am so much impressed by his personal qualities, greatness and his

sacrifices and practises of

> spirituality. But even many of friends do not agree with me. I myself

could not agree some of his political actions. But this will not in

anyway affect the greatness of Mahatma Gandhi. He severed an important

purpose in the History of India which cannot be so easily forgotten.

The ChaaturVarna system was the Social Order in ancient India. It

was a social order and not a religious one. Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi and

all great people appriciated the social order. Advantages of the system

in the society are many. It is only western rulers, and present day

politicians describe it as a social evil. It is a fact that the

Chaturvarna system will not apply or suit to the present day social

order. The Chaturvarna system is not at all responsible for the

untouchability in the Hindu Society. Actuallly the Bhuddhism and Jainism

are responsible for that.Leaving otherthings, more unnecessary

importance to Ahimsa principle and collapse of family system, complete

> disorder of the Social system are responsible for the complete failure

of the Buddhism and Jainism. Men and women, both took Sanyasa and joined

Buddhist monasteries. Lakhs of lower strata of the society, including

farmers became Monks in lakhs. Persons like fishermen, cobblers,

Butchers, Farmers etc. are considered as doing Himsa in their lively

hood.Hinduism never condemned any kind of job or services in the

society. Vegetarianism and pure Ahimsa are strictly prescribed only for

the spiritual aspirants and spiritual practitioners. Only after the

advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in the

Society.

> I know a person who in his early life joined a Veda Paatasala and

studied for five years. Earlier to that he had already passed his Vth

Std. After 5 years of Vedic Studies he left the patasala and privately

appeared for SSlC and also B.Com and M.Com as private study. But

unfortunately he could not get any job being a forward class candidate.

He worked as Archaka, part-time Purohit, learnt Computer also.

Finally he could get a job of class IV servant in AG's Office and posted

as peon to the then A.G. himself. He is good at English. Very

intelligent; hard-working. Many of the files which he carry to

Accountant General's Room as a peon, call IV he has no right to see,

study, or to comment. But out of curiosity being intelligent he

could not avoid seeing the bad notings of the Section Staff and comment

upon that. He may be intelligent, good and capable but he is only a

class IV servant. This is the system, order and rule. Just like that was

the Social

> order of Chaturvana system in our ancient society. We should not see

the Chatur varna system in the present day perspective. Today what we

see all these confusions are in the application of the system by selfish

people and not in the system of Democracy. I wonder of all people Shri

Niranjan Babu gives such comment. With regards.

>

>

> Hari Venkataraman

>

>

>

> --- On Tue, 15/7/08, sreenadh sreesog wrote:

>

> sreenadh sreesog

> Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

>

> Tuesday, 15 July, 2008, 1:54 PM

>

> Dear Niranjan ji,

>

> Your words express the general opinion, which should be appreciated.

But there could be other views as well, to which also we should be open.

It is not about being harsh against Buddha or Asoka - What harm they

have done to us? They lived in remote past, and we live now - what ever

is there in between is just academic interest and simple curiosity. And

what happened here is nothing but an occasional reference, an opinion, a

perspective presented - that is all to it. Thanks a lot for actively

participating in the discussions.

> Note:ÂIf I am not wrong you are the son of B V Raman and the Editor

of Astrological Magazine. Please correct me if I am wrong.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

[Guest guest]

" Only after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise

in the Society. "

With this kind of weird logic, one can probably justify any social evil. Even

Hitler had his own perverted logic to justify his actions.

Based on what I have read, abusive casteism got firmly established in India

during Gupta period or thereabouts- some six hundred years after Buddha.

 

The real question is not how untouchability got into our social fabric but how

are we going to eradicate it?

 

Anantha Krishnan

 

 

--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Venkataraman Hari <venkataraman_hari wrote:

 

Venkataraman Hari <venkataraman_hari

Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

 

Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:21 AM

 

Dear Sri Niranjn Babuji,

 

Namaste. Buddha is a great realised Soul . No doubt it. It is not simply Ahimsa

that what he taught. He said that Man should control his mind and his greed and

ambition is responsible for all hs sorrows in this world. The story says that he

has not refused meat in his Bhiksha. But as generally happens the followers of

Bhagavan Buddha are responsible for diluting his teaching. As you have said the

eight fold path the basic guidance for any human being. The Sermon on the Mount,

the eight Atma Gunas of our Sastras are basic tenants for a mans spliritual path

and also for the peaceful life in this world. But things become different,

dilluted, misinterpreted goes far away from the original thinking creates

confusion instead of peace and harmony in the society. Even today we know

Mahatma Gandhi. When I read his writings I am so much impressed by his personal

qualities, greatness and his sacrifices and practises of

spirituality. But even many of friends do not agree with me. I myself could not

agree some of his political actions. But this will not in anyway affect the

greatness of Mahatma Gandhi. He severed an important purpose in the History of

India which cannot be so easily forgotten. The  ChaaturVarna system was the

Social Order in ancient India. It was a social order and not a religious one.

Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi and all great people appriciated the social order.

Advantages of the system in the society are many. It is only western rulers, and

present day politicians describe it as a social evil. It is a fact that the

Chaturvarna system will not apply or suit to the present day social order. The

Chaturvarna system is not at all responsible for the untouchability in the Hindu

Society. Actuallly the Bhuddhism and Jainism are responsible for that.Leaving

otherthings, more unnecessary importance to Ahimsa principle and collapse of

family system, complete

disorder of the Social system are responsible for the complete failure of the

Buddhism and Jainism. Men and women, both took Sanyasa and joined Buddhist

monasteries. Lakhs of lower strata of the society, including farmers became

Monks in lakhs. Persons like fishermen, cobblers, Butchers, Farmers etc. are

considered as doing Himsa in their lively hood.Hinduism never condemned any kind

of job or services in the society. Vegetarianism and pure Ahimsa are strictly

prescribed only for the spiritual aspirants and spiritual practitioners. Only

after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in

the Society.

I know a person who in his early life joined a Veda Paatasala and studied for

five years. Earlier to that he had already passed his Vth Std. After 5 years of

Vedic Studies he left the patasala and privately appeared for SSlC and also

B.Com and M.Com as private study. But unfortunately he could not get any job

being a forward class candidate. He  worked as Archaka, part-time Purohit,

learnt Computer also. Finally he could get a job of class IV servant in AG's

Office and posted as peon to the then A.G. himself. He is good at English. Very

intelligent; hard-working. Many of the files which he carry to Accountant

General's Room as a peon, call IV he has no right to see, study, or to comment.

But out of curiosity  being intelligent he could not avoid seeing the bad

notings of the Section Staff and comment upon that. He may be intelligent, good

and capable but he is only a class IV servant. This is the system, order and

rule. Just like that was the

Social

order of  Chaturvana system in our ancient society. We should not see the Chatur

varna system in the present day perspective. Today what we see all these

confusions are in the application of the system by selfish people and not in the

system of Democracy. I wonder of all people Shri Niranjan Babu gives such

comment.  With regards.

 

Hari Venkataraman

[Guest guest]

Dear Ananthaji,

Yes we cannot fix any particular caste as the cause for social evils like unotouchabilty ( Social evil as commonly known, but not my personal view),

Untouchability also has many levels ad even in a labour room or a Operation Room, ar in the ICU . apart from the Doctors attending every other person is considered a untouchable. Untouchability is based on cleanliness and a action or profession which one is following, which makes one a untouchable to a serction of people whil does not make so to another.

There is no harm if the sweeper is not allowed to touch a person who is about to sit for a Puja.

there is no harm if the Dog is not allowed to enter the worship room.

( the common factor is, purity in the above 2 cases).

There is no harm if a old mother who is herself vcegetarian does not walk through the market lane which sells fishes or meat carcasses are hanging in that lane.

There is no harm if a person who has just consumed liquor is not allowed to take a dip in the Ganga for a wash but asked to come later, perhaps in the morning.

Exceptions have to be made.

Lord Rama did embrace the Bhil raja Nishaadraj ( Correct me if spelt the name wrong, i dont remember ), or ate jhoote ber of the great Bhakta Shabari.

But in social day to day Life, untouchability is to be mantained at certain places and certain circumstances, which is perfectly desirable and not to be abhorred.

There is nothing like we have to eradicate Untouchability. Its not a shame, but a requirement to mantain purity.

Bhaskar.

 

 

, Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_98 wrote:>> "Only after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in the Society. "> With this kind of weird logic, one can probably justify any social evil. Even Hitler had his own perverted logic to justify his actions.> Based on what I have read, abusive casteism got firmly established in India during Gupta period or thereabouts- some six hundred years after Buddha.> > The real question is not how untouchability got into our social fabric but how are we going to eradicate it?> > Anantha Krishnan> > > --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Venkataraman Hari venkataraman_hari wrote:> > Venkataraman Hari venkataraman_hari Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha> > Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:21 AM> > Dear Sri Niranjn Babuji,> > Namaste. Buddha is a great realised Soul . No doubt it. It is not simply Ahimsa that what he taught. He said that Man should control his mind and his greed and ambition is responsible for all hs sorrows in this world. The story says that he has not refused meat in his Bhiksha. But as generally happens the followers of Bhagavan Buddha are responsible for diluting his teaching. As you have said the eight fold path the basic guidance for any human being. The Sermon on the Mount, the eight Atma Gunas of our Sastras are basic tenants for a mans spliritual path and also for the peaceful life in this world. But things become different, dilluted, misinterpreted goes far away from the original thinking creates confusion instead of peace and harmony in the society. Even today we know Mahatma Gandhi. When I read his writings I am so much impressed by his personal qualities, greatness and his sacrifices and practises of> spirituality. But even many of friends do not agree with me. I myself could not agree some of his political actions. But this will not in anyway affect the greatness of Mahatma Gandhi. He severed an important purpose in the History of India which cannot be so easily forgotten. The ChaaturVarna system was the Social Order in ancient India. It was a social order and not a religious one. Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi and all great people appriciated the social order. Advantages of the system in the society are many. It is only western rulers, and present day politicians describe it as a social evil. It is a fact that the Chaturvarna system will not apply or suit to the present day social order. The Chaturvarna system is not at all responsible for the untouchability in the Hindu Society. Actuallly the Bhuddhism and Jainism are responsible for that.Leaving otherthings, more unnecessary importance to Ahimsa principle and collapse of family system, complete> disorder of the Social system are responsible for the complete failure of the Buddhism and Jainism. Men and women, both took Sanyasa and joined Buddhist monasteries. Lakhs of lower strata of the society, including farmers became Monks in lakhs. Persons like fishermen, cobblers, Butchers, Farmers etc. are considered as doing Himsa in their lively hood.Hinduism never condemned any kind of job or services in the society. Vegetarianism and pure Ahimsa are strictly prescribed only for the spiritual aspirants and spiritual practitioners. Only after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in the Society.> I know a person who in his early life joined a Veda Paatasala and studied for five years. Earlier to that he had already passed his Vth Std. After 5 years of Vedic Studies he left the patasala and privately appeared for SSlC and also B.Com and M.Com as private study. But unfortunately he could not get any job being a forward class candidate. He worked as Archaka, part-time Purohit, learnt Computer also. Finally he could get a job of class IV servant in AG's Office and posted as peon to the then A.G. himself. He is good at English. Very intelligent; hard-working. Many of the files which he carry to Accountant General's Room as a peon, call IV he has no right to see, study, or to comment. But out of curiosity being intelligent he could not avoid seeing the bad notings of the Section Staff and comment upon that. He may be intelligent, good and capable but he is only a class IV servant. This is the system, order and rule. Just like that was the> Social> order of Chaturvana system in our ancient society. We should not see the Chatur varna system in the present day perspective. Today what we see all these confusions are in the application of the system by selfish people and not in the system of Democracy. I wonder of all people Shri Niranjan Babu gives such comment. With regards.> > Hari Venkataraman>

[Guest guest]

Re-joinder,

 

I am myself a untouchable in front of my own wife, if she has already

had a bath and not done her Pooja, uptil the time I too have a bath. And

i am proud that my wife considers me a untouchable at that time. She has

got that sansakaar.

 

In Pure Hindu families, the ladies too are untouchables on the days of

their periods. Is it wrong No? those who know, know that when ladies at

such times even touch pickles, the pickles rot and not worth for

consuming. Surely something is trigeering to create that rot in the

pickles ?

 

Whe I was small and came wet from the rain, from school, I was

unotouchable to all the others siting in the Drawing room, till the time

i dried myself and worn fresh clothes.

 

So Untouchability is not a Gigantic issue or something to fight upon or

create a Big issue. It is subjective, objective and relative, from time

to time.

 

The beautful untouchable young lady from the village, we have seen in

Movies, the Zamindar trying to touch her.

 

See all this is as I said subjective.

 

We must talk about and try to eradicate the factions and casteism which

the present day Govt. is trying to create, if some one wants to help.

They are creating factions in Employment matters, in Education matters,

In use of languages in Govt.functionings, everywhere, on the basis if

casteism and Religion and Majority and Minority Cards, well played.

 

Lets try to do that, and not interfere with the varna system.

 

regards,

bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Bhaskarji,

 

//In Pure Hindu families, the ladies too are untouchables on the days of

their periods. Is it wrong No? those who know, know that when ladies at

such times even touch pickles, the pickles rot and not worth for

consuming. Surely something is trigeering to create that rot in the

pickles ?//

 

 

Surely, calling a woman untouchable on those days is wrong. If there

were no cycles, how could she give birth to men? In ancient times, the

bahus were young, immature, the key was in hands of the " supposedly

wise " saasu ma, this was a trick to harass the bahu. In ancient times,

the culture was different, orthodox hindu families ate on leaves, drank

from cups made of leaf, so that there was nothing " jhoota " , there were

no refrigerators, poeple made pickles in wide mouthed tall jars, added

enough salt/spice to prevent spoilage. Spoons were not used at all,

people ate with hands and used hands for the pickles also.

 

During the monthly cycle, the woman's body temperature increases. That

time, if she touched the pickle, the heat would definitely trigger a

spoilage in the pickle, hence she was not allowed to do so. A man

running high fever can also cause spoilage of pickle, but men did not

enter the kitchen those days other than to eat. Had they tried saas

would have been better on the bahu.

 

Now-a-days, we use spoons for everything, nothing happens if a

menstrauting women touches the pickles through spoon. All the market

pickes have preservatives. I belong to a cultured hindu family only. I

still make pickles at home, the traditional way, because lemons are the

cheapest I can get, 25 for 99cents. I have to cook because I live all

alone, there are only seafood restaurants in my place. Every month, I

touch the pickles through spoon- nothing happens.

 

Bombay Mahalaxmi temple- menstruating women are most welcome to visit

this temple, most people are aware of the story

 

 

The ancient Indians were smart,had a valid scientific explanation for

everything, but each passing age, diluted the ideas and originality,

finally people started believing in superstitions rather than believing

in common sense

 

 

Regards,

 

bhagavathi

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagvathiji,

 

While travelling to the markets, movie halls, in subways,trams etc. one

may be sitting with anybody, a untouchable for Petes sake, but since one

does not know he does not care and does not mind whom he brushes with,

in public. In modern times, when the family has become nuclear with only

husband wife staying tofgether and the in laws seperately, and not

aactually this is wrong. But if one has to be practical in todaystimes,

then one ble to afford servants specially on foreign countries, and the

wroking woman , it is no wonder that the lady has to do all the wotk,

even on those days, and touch everything. This does not mean that it is

right. If one believes in traditions then this is wrong. But if one has

to be practical in todays times, then this is wrong.

 

An untouchable is untouchable. You cannot call any other name for that.

I have already explained in my previous mail that this is an objective

and relative term.

 

Now those who find the word " untouchable' as wrong may be guilty of

touching everything, and may want to justify their actions, when they

know very well in their hearts that the tradition does not allow a women

to be touched, or touch in those 3 days. I do not blame them for the

current Lifestyles and if these women do not enter the kitchen, then

would remain hungry till their husband comes home at night, and serves

something from the kitchen. They have no choice but to enter the

kitchen, as no servant, nobody else in the house.

 

I am not aware of the menstruating women allowed to enter the Mahalaksmi

temple in Bombay. News to me. No women from good cultured family would

even go to the temple even if such a suggestion is made to her.

 

Your article was really interesting.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " bhagavathi_hariharan "

<bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:

>

> Namaste Bhaskarji,

>

> //In Pure Hindu families, the ladies too are untouchables on the days

of

> their periods. Is it wrong No? those who know, know that when ladies

at

> such times even touch pickles, the pickles rot and not worth for

> consuming. Surely something is trigeering to create that rot in the

> pickles ?//

>

>

> Surely, calling a woman untouchable on those days is wrong. If there

> were no cycles, how could she give birth to men? In ancient times, the

> bahus were young, immature, the key was in hands of the " supposedly

> wise " saasu ma, this was a trick to harass the bahu. In ancient times,

> the culture was different, orthodox hindu families ate on leaves,

drank

> from cups made of leaf, so that there was nothing " jhoota " , there were

> no refrigerators, poeple made pickles in wide mouthed tall jars, added

> enough salt/spice to prevent spoilage. Spoons were not used at all,

> people ate with hands and used hands for the pickles also.

>

> During the monthly cycle, the woman's body temperature increases. That

> time, if she touched the pickle, the heat would definitely trigger a

> spoilage in the pickle, hence she was not allowed to do so. A man

> running high fever can also cause spoilage of pickle, but men did not

> enter the kitchen those days other than to eat. Had they tried saas

> would have been better on the bahu.

>

> Now-a-days, we use spoons for everything, nothing happens if a

> menstrauting women touches the pickles through spoon. All the market

> pickes have preservatives. I belong to a cultured hindu family only. I

> still make pickles at home, the traditional way, because lemons are

the

> cheapest I can get, 25 for 99cents. I have to cook because I live all

> alone, there are only seafood restaurants in my place. Every month, I

> touch the pickles through spoon- nothing happens.

>

> Bombay Mahalaxmi temple- menstruating women are most welcome to visit

> this temple, most people are aware of the story

>

>

> The ancient Indians were smart,had a valid scientific explanation for

> everything, but each passing age, diluted the ideas and originality,

> finally people started believing in superstitions rather than

believing

> in common sense

>

>

> Regards,

>

> bhagavathi

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Madam ji / Bhaskar ji,

 

1) Yes agree our ancients were more advanced some of the accepted

practises then might have lost their logic over the time, today blindly

practised, becoming a superstition ..etc..

 

2) To reason pickles would get spoiled, would be farfetched, may be

scientifically it may have reasons & effects, but mere touch...etc..- do

not agree & feel invalid also.

 

3) The seclusion is partly meant only for the -stains- if any, is

restricted, for in good old days...they did not Surf or Arie...washing

powder technology.

 

4) Such seclusion rituals....are not even written or recommended in any

ancient Hindu scriptures.....so must have come after thought.....i.e.

second thoughts....

 

5) Conducting pujas during this period is prohibited, but such a

sanction is NOT found anywhere in the scriptures...though people have

been saying it for ages..... do not find any valid reason also.....i

have been probing....not yet got any technical answer....

 

Any way, this is not related to astrology....so would give it pass......

 

With regards,

 

Sreeram_Srinivas

, " bhagavathi_hariharan "

<bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:

>

> Namaste Bhaskarji,

>

> //In Pure Hindu families, the ladies too are untouchables on the days

of

> their periods. Is it wrong No? those who know, know that when ladies

at

> such times even touch pickles, the pickles rot and not worth for

> consuming. Surely something is trigeering to create that rot in the

> pickles ?//

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavati ji,Let me support you and add to what you've said.Article 17 of the Constitution of India abolished caste-based untouchability, but perhaps we need another section/amendment to abolish menstrual untouchability.

The Times of India (June 8, 2008, Chennai edition) carried a report on how a Tamil Nadu state minister had on May 27 inaugurated an 'isolation room' for menstruating women in the remote village of Thuvaar in Thirupattur. According to the ToI report, a soothsayer had predicted that rains failed because the village gods were angry that the 'Muttukuruchi' system had been discontinued for the past few years. To revive the system of isolating women and young girls on their reaching puberty, the villagers had constructed the cramped eighty square foot isolation room were bleeding women could be banished.

Many myths, legends, and taboos have grown up around menstruation throughout the centuries, all with the underlying sentiment that menstruating women are unclean and capable of producing bad effects on the world about them and it became a focus of religious observance.

Such ludicrous ideas were perpetrated by the male dominated Hindu society to degrade the women and create a complex that the women are inferior to men. Menstruation is a normal physiological process. This was created for a specific function in women. Hence, there is nothing wrong or to be ashamed when women go through menstruation. It is utter ignorance to consider the women to be impure and polluting during this time. It is ridiculous to believe that gods do not want them to come to their abodes - temples- during such times.

The negative ideology surrounding menstruation can also be seen in the type and amount of research that has been done on menstruation. What is quoted everywhere, for example, is the research by David Macht in 1924, which allegedly showed the existence of menotoxins in menstrual blood, which destroyed plant life. With this research some men think they've got a scientific sanction for their beliefs. This research, however, has never been replicated, and in fact, in an attempt to replicate this experiment, researchers in 1934 found that non-menstruating women give off more of these toxins then menstruating women do (Taylor, 1988).

Even if proved that menstrual blood has toxins, it does not mean women start emanating germs all around. They don't become lethat bip-weapons. For that matter, by this logic, people carrying deadly viruses and contagious blood infections should be isolated and not allowed in the temples.

The basal body temperature theory also doesn't hold good as it is only 0.4 deg F rise in BBT on an average. This cannot spoil the pickles or wilt the flowers by touching. If at all, in olden days women were not allowed to make pickles during this time, may be for this reason.

I would say that the women are also responsible for the persistence of this appalling ignorance. There are many highly educated females, who would not step inside a temple during this time.Pollution and pureness depend on your speech, action and deeds. In Hindu philosophy, the main purpose of the soul is to attain liberation. This primarily depends on the karma that each soul has committed. Liberation of the soul neither depends on the sex of the soul nor on the blood that the - temporary - physical body sheds.

God will accept any one as long as their minds and actions are pure. Let women take a firm stand on this issue and give up the ignorance that menstruation is awful. Let us make sure that the men do not dictate terms with the female anatomy and physiology. Only then the 'Creator' would smile upon them.

RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, That was an excellent mail! I agree with you. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhagavati ji,> > Let me support you and add to what you've said.> > Article 17 of the Constitution of India abolished caste-based> untouchability, but perhaps we need another section/amendment to abolish> menstrual untouchability.> > The Times of India (June 8, 2008, Chennai edition) carried a report on how a> Tamil Nadu state minister had on May 27 inaugurated an 'isolation room' for> menstruating women in the remote village of Thuvaar in Thirupattur.> According to the ToI report, a soothsayer had predicted that rains failed> because the village gods were angry that the 'Muttukuruchi' system had been> discontinued for the past few years. To revive the system of isolating women> and young girls on their reaching puberty, the villagers had constructed the> cramped eighty square foot isolation room were bleeding women could be> banished.> > Many myths, legends, and taboos have grown up around menstruation throughout> the centuries, all with the underlying sentiment that menstruating women are> unclean and capable of producing bad effects on the world about them and it> became a focus of religious observance.> > Such ludicrous ideas were perpetrated by the male dominated Hindu society to> degrade the women and create a complex that the women are inferior to men.> Menstruation is a normal physiological process. This was created for a> specific function in women. Hence, there is nothing wrong or to be ashamed> when women go through menstruation. It is utter ignorance to consider the> women to be impure and polluting during this time. It is ridiculous to> believe that gods do not want them to come to their abodes - temples- during> such times.> > The negative ideology surrounding menstruation can also be seen in the type> and amount of research that has been done on menstruation. What is quoted> everywhere, for example, is the research by David Macht in 1924, which> allegedly showed the existence of menotoxins in menstrual blood, which> destroyed plant life. With this research some men think they've got a> scientific sanction for their beliefs. This research, however, has never> been replicated, and in fact, in an attempt to replicate this experiment,> researchers in 1934 found that non-menstruating women give off more of these> toxins then menstruating women do (Taylor, 1988).> > Even if proved that menstrual blood has toxins, it does not mean women start> emanating germs all around. They don't become lethat bip-weapons. For that> matter, by this logic, people carrying deadly viruses and contagious blood> infections should be isolated and not allowed in the temples.> > The basal body temperature theory also doesn't hold good as it is only 0.4> deg F rise in BBT on an average. This cannot spoil the pickles or wilt the> flowers by touching. If at all, in olden days women were not allowed to make> pickles during this time, may be for this reason.> > I would say that the women are also responsible for the persistence of this> appalling ignorance. There are many highly educated females, who would not> step inside a temple during this time.> > Pollution and pureness depend on your speech, action and deeds. In Hindu> philosophy, the main purpose of the soul is to attain liberation. This> primarily depends on the karma that each soul has committed. Liberation of> the soul neither depends on the sex of the soul nor on the blood that the -> temporary - physical body sheds.> God will accept any one as long as their minds and actions are pure.> > Let women take a firm stand on this issue and give up the ignorance that> menstruation is awful. Let us make sure that the men do not dictate terms> with the female anatomy and physiology. Only then the 'Creator' would smile> upon them.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,Namaste, I wish to share some of my thoughts on the subject of untouchability and would be thankful if I have your opinion on the same.Yes, there have been many types of untouchability.One type is of temporary nature such as during the unclean period of three days, in the olden days, the ladies were not allowed to touch each and everything she was used to touch at other times. It could well be that to give her enough rest in those days that such rules might have been framed. This is because in the olden days the ladies had to lot more work than what the ladies have to do these days. For example, there were no rice mills ot wheat mills in those days. These difficult jobs

were to be done by the ladies.and naturally a woman in that unclean period had to be allowed to take rest from such work. To ensure that the lady would not be forced to do such hard work in the olden daytimes during those three unclean days the seclusion was forced on them for their own benefit.Then there were the people who violated the societal norms for which they had to be ex-communicated from the society. In the olden days there were no jails like we have these days. People had to be expelled to keep them out of circulation in the society. In the semitic religion there was the practice of stoning to death in cases of

adultery. In apostasy also the punishment was death in some religions. But no such punishment was there in India in the olden days. Even the sage Gautama was expelled from the society though he was falsely framed by his rivals (ie. implicated in the death of a sick cow) and only after sixty years of penance he could come back to society. If he would have died before sixty years he would have died as an untouchable. Unfortunately the family of the people who were expelled from the society also suffered as is the case today where the family of the convicted persons suffer. The society could do nothing in such cases. In the olden days the expelled people were at liberty to go far away from their villages. However if anybody wanted to stay near the village and wanted help for their livelihood then they were given the odd jobs, which nobody in the society was happy to do, and that too was given to be done outside the village boundary. However there was

no discrimination otherwise as we know from the Vedas that all men lived like brothers (and sisters). Even though all the people (of all the four varnas) stayed together, as if in a single family, the people of different occupations had necessarily to take different types food as was suitable for their type of work / livelihood.Regards,sunil Kumar bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote:Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 9:53 AM

 

Dear Ananthaji,

Yes we cannot fix any particular caste as the cause for social evils like unotouchabilty ( Social evil as commonly known, but not my personal view),

Untouchability also has many levels ad even in a labour room or a Operation Room, ar in the ICU . apart from the Doctors attending every other person is considered a untouchable. Untouchability is based on cleanliness and a action or profession which one is following, which makes one a untouchable to a serction of people whil does not make so to another.

There is no harm if the sweeper is not allowed to touch a person who is about to sit for a Puja.

there is no harm if the Dog is not allowed to enter the worship room.

( the common factor is, purity in the above 2 cases).

There is no harm if a old mother who is herself vcegetarian does not walk through the market lane which sells fishes or meat carcasses are hanging in that lane.

There is no harm if a person who has just consumed liquor is not allowed to take a dip in the Ganga for a wash but asked to come later, perhaps in the morning.

Exceptions have to be made.

Lord Rama did embrace the Bhil raja Nishaadraj ( Correct me if spelt the name wrong, i dont remember ), or ate jhoote ber of the great Bhakta Shabari.

But in social day to day Life, untouchability is to be mantained at certain places and certain circumstances, which is perfectly desirable and not to be abhorred.

There is nothing like we have to eradicate Untouchability. Its not a shame, but a requirement to mantain purity.

Bhaskar.

 

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_ 98 wrote:>> "Only after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in the Society. "> With this kind of weird logic, one can probably justify any social evil. Even Hitler had his own perverted logic to justify his actions.> Based on what I have read, abusive casteism got firmly established in India during Gupta period or thereabouts- some six hundred years after Buddha.> > The real question is not how untouchability got into our social fabric but how are we going to eradicate it?> > Anantha Krishnan> > > --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Venkataraman Hari venkataraman_ hari wrote:> > Venkataraman Hari venkataraman_ hari [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/ Buddha>

ancient_indian_ astrology> Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:21 AM> > Dear Sri Niranjn Babuji,> > Namaste. Buddha is a great realised Soul . No doubt it. It is not simply Ahimsa that what he taught. He said that Man should control his mind and his greed and ambition is responsible for all hs sorrows in this world. The story says that he has not refused meat in his Bhiksha. But as generally happens the followers of Bhagavan Buddha are responsible for diluting his teaching. As you have said the eight fold path the basic guidance for any human being. The Sermon on the Mount, the eight Atma Gunas of our Sastras are basic tenants for a mans spliritual path and also for the peaceful life in this world. But things become different, dilluted, misinterpreted goes far away from the original thinking creates confusion instead of peace and harmony in the society. Even today we know Mahatma Gandhi. When I read

his writings I am so much impressed by his personal qualities, greatness and his sacrifices and practises of> spirituality. But even many of friends do not agree with me. I myself could not agree some of his political actions. But this will not in anyway affect the greatness of Mahatma Gandhi. He severed an important purpose in the History of India which cannot be so easily forgotten. The ChaaturVarna system was the Social Order in ancient India. It was a social order and not a religious one. Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi and all great people appriciated the social order. Advantages of the system in the society are many. It is only western rulers, and present day politicians describe it as a social evil. It is a fact that the Chaturvarna system will not apply or suit to the present day social order. The Chaturvarna system is not at all responsible for the untouchability in the Hindu Society. Actuallly the Bhuddhism and Jainism are responsible

for that.Leaving otherthings, more unnecessary importance to Ahimsa principle and collapse of family system, complete> disorder of the Social system are responsible for the complete failure of the Buddhism and Jainism. Men and women, both took Sanyasa and joined Buddhist monasteries. Lakhs of lower strata of the society, including farmers became Monks in lakhs. Persons like fishermen, cobblers, Butchers, Farmers etc. are considered as doing Himsa in their lively hood.Hinduism never condemned any kind of job or services in the society. Vegetarianism and pure Ahimsa are strictly prescribed only for the spiritual aspirants and spiritual practitioners. Only after the advent of Buddhiism this kind of Untouchability came to practise in the Society.> I know a person who in his early life joined a Veda Paatasala and studied for five years. Earlier to that he had already passed his Vth Std. After 5 years of Vedic Studies he left the patasala

and privately appeared for SSlC and also B.Com and M.Com as private study. But unfortunately he could not get any job being a forward class candidate. He worked as Archaka, part-time Purohit, learnt Computer also. Finally he could get a job of class IV servant in AG's Office and posted as peon to the then A.G. himself. He is good at English. Very intelligent; hard-working. Many of the files which he carry to Accountant General's Room as a peon, call IV he has no right to see, study, or to comment. But out of curiosity being intelligent he could not avoid seeing the bad notings of the Section Staff and comment upon that. He may be intelligent, good and capable but he is only a class IV servant. This is the system, order and rule. Just like that was the> Social> order of Chaturvana system in our ancient society. We should not see the Chatur varna system in the present day perspective. Today what we see all these

confusions are in the application of the system by selfish people and not in the system of Democracy. I wonder of all people Shri Niranjan Babu gives such comment. With regards.> > Hari Venkataraman>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji, Sreeramji,NamasteThere is a long

history of bias against women. But we also have many men like you and who are

bold enough to voice there sensitive and rational opinions in male dominated

forums. Women do salute all such men who do not hold illogical beliefs and

are sensitive...

Now Sreeramji, we

abide by your reprimand and do astrology…though at times such discussions lead

to a better understanding of social issues, human behaviour, thoughts and

evolution and hence astrology... so excuse us for going off sometimes…RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreeramji,

 

As per Your request,

 

From my side I will close this topic. before I do this let me confirm

what You said, that there is definitely a scientific reason for the

pickles getting rotted, and its not just a mere touch which could do so.

A touch by a lady in those 3 days brings about this rot. Which means

some chemistry is taking place in those 3 days connected to the body

which throws out the impurity and makes the lady absolute pure, which

these lady members in our Forum, unfortunately do not know about. In

fact this is the time when the lady becomes utmost pure after the end of

this cycle every month.

 

Another matter, they talk about ' male domination '. Who has time to

dominate the females ? And Would they stand domination ?

 

They just want to justify what they are doing, and know they are going

against the traditional beliefs and way of living and just want to put a

alibi now. I hve mentioned before too, that this is a matter of personal

practicability and in small nuclear families where the ladies after

marriage take away the sons away from their parents to live in another

house, they have no choice but to touch . This does not mean in any

which way that its right and justified.

 

Thanks for the patience.

 

kind regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadhji, Sreeramji,

>

> Namaste

>

> There is a long history of bias against women. But we also have many

men

> like you and who are bold enough to voice there sensitive and rational

> opinions in male dominated forums. Women do salute all such men who do

not

> hold illogical beliefs and are sensitive...

>

> Now Sreeramji, we abide by your reprimand and do astrology…though

at times

> such discussions lead to a better understanding of social issues,

human

> behaviour, thoughts and evolution and hence astrology... so excuse us

for

> going off sometimes…

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, It is sensitive...touches the heart...!!! Thank you. Note: May be sincerity and sensitivity is the hallmark of true knowledge (along with the golden info)Love and regards,Sreeandh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji, Sreeramji,> > Namaste> > There is a long history of bias against women. But we also have many men> like you and who are bold enough to voice there sensitive and rational> opinions in male dominated forums. Women do salute all such men who do not> hold illogical beliefs and are sensitive...> > Now Sreeramji, we abide by your reprimand and do astrology…though at times> such discussions lead to a better understanding of social issues, human> behaviour, thoughts and evolution and hence astrology... so excuse us for> going off sometimes…> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Rejoinder-

All oldcustoms and traditions had some scientific base in the Hindu system. Because we are not aware or have forgotten must not mean that they are passe.

On Sundays one should not do Tel-Maalish . Why ?

Because already due to Sunday there is enough of agnitattwa in the body. We are making the Pitta more strong if we do this on Sundays.

Adrakh must not be kept in the fridge . Why ?

Because adrakh itself is full of agnitattwa. keeping in cold region spoils the agni tattwa of same.

While going to toilet one must not open his mouth. Why ?

Because there are different vayus in the human body which function at seperate levels. Here the apana vayu helps in pusshing the mutra-malla down so that it is excreted smoothyl. When one speaks while urinating or.... that time instead of the apana vayu pressurising down, it comes out from the mouth, which is not desirable.

Different food dishes in different seasons in the Hindu system.Why ?

They have different food stuffs in the North in Hindu religion to be eaten every season. Like Imlaani with Khichdi which helps in the summer season to cool down the body due to ecsessive heat in the body due to temperature outside. In the cold seasons they have Rotis soaked in Ghee - Daal baati- which brings in heat in the body due to excessive cold outside.

These Hindu customs, rituals, norms all have got some logical base. Same with menstryation, but i dont want to get into that explanation now, as it it would not make sense to many ladies here.

I personally respect the Hindu customs, and traditions, even though i may not be knowingthe logic or scientific explanation behind the same, but I know this much for sure, that the generations before me have done it, so I would do it.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> > Dear Sreeramji,> > As per Your request,> > From my side I will close this topic. before I do this let me confirm> what You said, that there is definitely a scientific reason for the> pickles getting rotted, and its not just a mere touch which could do so.> A touch by a lady in those 3 days brings about this rot. Which means> some chemistry is taking place in those 3 days connected to the body> which throws out the impurity and makes the lady absolute pure, which> these lady members in our Forum, unfortunately do not know about. In> fact this is the time when the lady becomes utmost pure after the end of> this cycle every month.> > Another matter, they talk about ' male domination '. Who has time to> dominate the females ? And Would they stand domination ?> > They just want to justify what they are doing, and know they are going> against the traditional beliefs and way of living and just want to put a> alibi now. I hve mentioned before too, that this is a matter of personal> practicability and in small nuclear families where the ladies after> marriage take away the sons away from their parents to live in another> house, they have no choice but to touch . This does not mean in any> which way that its right and justified.> > Thanks for the patience.> > kind regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > , "neelam gupta"> neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji, Sreeramji,> >> > Namaste> >> > There is a long history of bias against women. But we also have many> men> > like you and who are bold enough to voice there sensitive and rational> > opinions in male dominated forums. Women do salute all such men who do> not> > hold illogical beliefs and are sensitive...> >> > Now Sreeramji, we abide by your reprimand and do astrology…though> at times> > such discussions lead to a better understanding of social issues,> human> > behaviour, thoughts and evolution and hence astrology... so excuse us> for> > going off sometimes…> >> > Regards> > Neelam> >>

[Guest guest]

Who started this thread anyway ? I got a lot of aches, but this time I

laughed aloud. Thank God, am away from participating here now. All of

us good people breaking our heads with each, with various opinions.

Better to get away before its too late and heats up...

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya-ji and others,

 

 

Just for info.

 

The famous Kamakhya Temple in Guwahati (Assam) also celebrates this.

The festival is held on " Ambubachi' (probably last week of June) for three

days.

 

The Devi is supposed to be having menstrual cycle on those 3 days.

 

The temple remains closed for three days and literally lacs of devotees

gather. The temple door is opened after those three days.

 

In eastern India, people are not supposed to plough the field / do earth

cutting

etc on those days. Logic is - the earth is having menstrual cycle and hence

should

not be disturbed. Interestingly, the Yoni of Devi was supposedly fallen

here.in Kamakhya

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

revati_n27 [revati_n27]

Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:06 PM

 

Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

 

 

 

Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of information

related to the subject declared to be closed.

 

There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood,

Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is quiet

distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU which

is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected

with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically in

the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi

Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place.

Thousands of people participate during this celebration.

 

The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design was

by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had been

designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer

would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of the

post of the Kuthambalam.

 

Jaya

..

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is in the Nilachal hill, on the outskirts of Guwahati, where the private parts of the Mother Goddess fell. That is why this place is considered to be the holiest among the Devi peethas. In fact some people believe that it is once in twelve years but there is some confusion as to the particular year. So people observe it every year. Some believe that when it rains after the three days that year is probably the correct year.Regards --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Chakraborty, PL <CHAKRABORTYP2 (AT) iocl (DOT) co.in> wrote:Chakraborty, PL <CHAKRABORTYP2 Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha Date: Wednesday,

July 16, 2008, 10:16 PM

 

 

 

Dear Jaya-ji and others,

 

 

Just for info.

 

The famous Kamakhya Temple in Guwahati (Assam) also celebrates this.

The festival is held on "Ambubachi' (probably last week of June) for three

days.

 

The Devi is supposed to be having menstrual cycle on those 3 days.

 

The temple remains closed for three days and literally lacs of devotees

gather. The temple door is opened after those three days.

 

In eastern India, people are not supposed to plough the field / do earth

cutting

etc on those days. Logic is - the earth is having menstrual cycle and hence

should

not be disturbed. Interestingly, the Yoni of Devi was supposedly fallen

here.in Kamakhya

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

revati_n27 [revati_n27 ]

Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:06 PM

ancient_indian_ astrology

[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/ Buddha

 

Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of information

related to the subject declared to be closed.

 

There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood,

Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is quiet

distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU which

is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected

with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically in

the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi

Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place.

Thousands of people participate during this celebration.

 

The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design was

by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had been

designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer

would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of the

post of the Kuthambalam.

 

Jaya

..

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya ji, That was nice info. By the way, do you know that Peruntachan is the brathor of 5th century scholar Astronomar Haridattan (alias, Naranttu Bhrantan) who created/popularised the Parahita Ganita beeja corrections? ==>> The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design was > by the famous Perunthachan.<== This statement indicates that the said temple in Chengannur dates back to 5th century AD!! You might be able to find more info and correlation if you meditate on the history of the above Siva -Sakti temple. Siva, Sakti, Tantirc systems, Haridatta who followed Aryabhata the Jain scholar to create Parahita system - the thread of info can take you a long way; that too based on the history of your place and the temple present there itself!! Note: It is the usual path of learning and research. Something in our neighborhood interests us; we start thinking about it; data and info accumulates; unforeseen insights and info gets revealed; the uniqueness of the ideas and its contrasts with the common understanding baffles us; the story continues.....a researcher is born!!!! Whether it be history or science the system remains the same... :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "revati_n27" <revati_n27 wrote:>> Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of information > related to the subject declared to be closed. > > There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood, > Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is quiet > distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU which > is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected > with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically in > the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi > Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place. > Thousands of people participate during this celebration. > > The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design was > by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had been > designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer > would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of the > post of the Kuthambalam. > > Jaya> .> > , "bhagavathi_hariharan" > bhagavathi_hariharan@ wrote:> >> > Dear Neelamji,> > > > Thank you and well written. There need not be any constituition > > baning anything, untouchability will exist, it is strength to the > > society. How else can politicians rise? Instead, the Indian > > Government can consider giving "three days paid leave to all > working > > women each month". Casteism, racism etc will always be there. In > fact > > it begins at home itself like charity.> > > > If out of three daughters in a home, on of them is dark, you can > > imagine what she passes through. > > > > In Iyengar temples, Iyers are outcastes, interstingly both are > > brahmins. > > > > It exists in US also, blacks have their own party, hispanics have > > their own party, Chinese have their own, Indians have their > own "many > > parties- state wise". > > > > Regarding, the temple issue, it is commonsense for a lady not to go > > to the temple. She can stay away from controversy. I already > > explained the scientific reson for the pickles. The reason we go to > > the temple is obviously to pray and medidate, although now-a-days > it > > is to socialize. Women will not be mentally fit that time as she is > > coping up with hormone changes. > > > > The Mahalaxmi temple in Bombay has an interesting story, the three > > devis are mahakali, mahalaxmi in the center and mahasarswati. Here > > Kali is in her Shant roop. The three Goddesses had their cycles and > > wanted a place to stay, all other gods drove them away because of > > their cycles,they got angry so they chose that place, near the sea, > > and called themselves pure always because of the water. > Menstruating > > women are allowed here as once the women enter the temple, they > > become pure. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "neelam gupta" > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhagavati ji,> > > > > > Let me support you and add to what you've said.> > > > > > Article 17 of the Constitution of India abolished caste-based> > > untouchability, but perhaps we need another section/amendment to > > abolish> > > menstrual untouchability.> > > > > > The Times of India (June 8, 2008, Chennai edition) carried a > report > > on how a> > > Tamil Nadu state minister had on May 27 inaugurated an 'isolation > > room' for> > > menstruating women in the remote village of Thuvaar in > Thirupattur.> > > According to the ToI report, a soothsayer had predicted that > rains > > failed> > > because the village gods were angry that the 'Muttukuruchi' > system > > had been> > > discontinued for the past few years. To revive the system of > > isolating women> > > and young girls on their reaching puberty, the villagers had > > constructed the> > > cramped eighty square foot isolation room were bleeding women > could > > be> > > banished.> > > > > > Many myths, legends, and taboos have grown up around menstruation > > throughout> > > the centuries, all with the underlying sentiment that > menstruating > > women are> > > unclean and capable of producing bad effects on the world about > > them and it> > > became a focus of religious observance.> > > > > > Such ludicrous ideas were perpetrated by the male dominated Hindu > > society to> > > degrade the women and create a complex that the women are > inferior > > to men.> > > Menstruation is a normal physiological process. This was created > > for a> > > specific function in women. Hence, there is nothing wrong or to > be > > ashamed> > > when women go through menstruation. It is utter ignorance to > > consider the> > > women to be impure and polluting during this time. It is > ridiculous > > to> > > believe that gods do not want them to come to their abodes - > > temples- during> > > such times.> > > > > > The negative ideology surrounding menstruation can also be seen > in > > the type> > > and amount of research that has been done on menstruation. What > is > > quoted> > > everywhere, for example, is the research by David Macht in 1924, > > which> > > allegedly showed the existence of menotoxins in menstrual blood, > > which> > > destroyed plant life. With this research some men think they've > got > > a> > > scientific sanction for their beliefs. This research, however, > has > > never> > > been replicated, and in fact, in an attempt to replicate this > > experiment,> > > researchers in 1934 found that non-menstruating women give off > more > > of these> > > toxins then menstruating women do (Taylor, 1988).> > > > > > Even if proved that menstrual blood has toxins, it does not mean > > women start> > > emanating germs all around. They don't become lethat bip-weapons. > > For that> > > matter, by this logic, people carrying deadly viruses and > > contagious blood> > > infections should be isolated and not allowed in the temples.> > > > > > The basal body temperature theory also doesn't hold good as it is > > only 0.4> > > deg F rise in BBT on an average. This cannot spoil the pickles or > > wilt the> > > flowers by touching. If at all, in olden days women were not > > allowed to make> > > pickles during this time, may be for this reason.> > > > > > I would say that the women are also responsible for the > persistence > > of this> > > appalling ignorance. There are many highly educated females, who > > would not> > > step inside a temple during this time.> > > > > > Pollution and pureness depend on your speech, action and deeds. > In > > Hindu> > > philosophy, the main purpose of the soul is to attain liberation. > > This> > > primarily depends on the karma that each soul has committed. > > Liberation of> > > the soul neither depends on the sex of the soul nor on the blood > > that the -> > > temporary - physical body sheds.> > > God will accept any one as long as their minds and actions are > pure.> > > > > > Let women take a firm stand on this issue and give up the > ignorance > > that> > > menstruation is awful. Let us make sure that the men do not > dictate > > terms> > > with the female anatomy and physiology. Only then the 'Creator' > > would smile> > > upon them.> > > > > > Regards> > > Neelam> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakrabortiji:

 

Yes, I also have heard of the famous Kamakhya temple. Good to know

the festival there as well, now I can look up and read more details.

 

Thanks,

jaya

 

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Jaya-ji and others,

>

>

> Just for info.

>

> The famous Kamakhya Temple in Guwahati (Assam) also celebrates this.

> The festival is held on " Ambubachi' (probably last week of June)

for three

> days.

>

> The Devi is supposed to be having menstrual cycle on those 3 days.

>

> The temple remains closed for three days and literally lacs of

devotees

> gather. The temple door is opened after those three days.

>

> In eastern India, people are not supposed to plough the field / do

earth

> cutting

> etc on those days. Logic is - the earth is having menstrual cycle

and hence

> should

> not be disturbed. Interestingly, the Yoni of Devi was supposedly

fallen

> here.in Kamakhya

>

>

> Regards

>

>

>

>

> revati_n27 [revati_n27]

> Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:06 PM

>

> Re:Chanakya Quotes/Ashoka/Buddha

>

>

>

> Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of information

> related to the subject declared to be closed.

>

> There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood,

> Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is quiet

> distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU which

> is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected

> with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically in

> the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi

> Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place.

> Thousands of people participate during this celebration.

>

> The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design

was

> by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had been

> designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer

> would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of the

> post of the Kuthambalam.

>

> Jaya

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji:

 

If my memory is correct one of the astronomy articles in the group

file section (ChandraHariji) has the mention of the Chengannur temple

and its Kuthambalam.

 

Jaya

 

 

mentions , " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

>

> Dear Jaya ji,

> That was nice info. By the way, do you know that Peruntachan is

the

> brathor of 5th century scholar Astronomar Haridattan (alias,

Naranttu

> Bhrantan) who created/popularised the Parahita Ganita beeja

> corrections?

> ==

> >> The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural

design was

> > by the famous Perunthachan.

> <==

> This statement indicates that the said temple in Chengannur

dates back

> to 5th century AD!! You might be able to find more info and

correlation

> if you meditate on the history of the above Siva -Sakti temple.

Siva,

> Sakti, Tantirc systems, Haridatta who followed Aryabhata the Jain

> scholar to create Parahita system - the thread of info can take you

a

> long way; that too based on the history of your place and the temple

> present there itself!!

> Note: It is the usual path of learning and research. Something

in our

> neighborhood interests us; we start thinking about it; data and info

> accumulates; unforeseen insights and info gets revealed; the

uniqueness

> of the ideas and its contrasts with the common understanding

baffles us;

> the story continues.....a researcher is born!!!! Whether it be

history

> or science the system remains the same...

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " revati_n27 "

> <revati_n27@> wrote:

> >

> > Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of

information

> > related to the subject declared to be closed.

> >

> > There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood,

> > Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is

quiet

> > distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU

which

> > is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected

> > with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically

in

> > the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi

> > Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place.

> > Thousands of people participate during this celebration.

> >

> > The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design

was

> > by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had

been

> > designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer

> > would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of

the

> > post of the Kuthambalam.

> >

> > Jaya

> > .

> > --- In

> > , " bhagavathi_hariharan "

> > bhagavathi_hariharan@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Neelamji,

> > >

> > > Thank you and well written. There need not be any constituition

> > > baning anything, untouchability will exist, it is strength to

the

> > > society. How else can politicians rise? Instead, the Indian

> > > Government can consider giving " three days paid leave to all

> > working

> > > women each month " . Casteism, racism etc will always be there. In

> > fact

> > > it begins at home itself like charity.

> > >

> > > If out of three daughters in a home, on of them is dark, you can

> > > imagine what she passes through.

> > >

> > > In Iyengar temples, Iyers are outcastes, interstingly both are

> > > brahmins.

> > >

> > > It exists in US also, blacks have their own party, hispanics

have

> > > their own party, Chinese have their own, Indians have their

> > own " many

> > > parties- state wise " .

> > >

> > > Regarding, the temple issue, it is commonsense for a lady not

to go

> > > to the temple. She can stay away from controversy. I already

> > > explained the scientific reson for the pickles. The reason we

go to

> > > the temple is obviously to pray and medidate, although now-a-

days

> > it

> > > is to socialize. Women will not be mentally fit that time as

she is

> > > coping up with hormone changes.

> > >

> > > The Mahalaxmi temple in Bombay has an interesting story, the

three

> > > devis are mahakali, mahalaxmi in the center and mahasarswati.

Here

> > > Kali is in her Shant roop. The three Goddesses had their cycles

and

> > > wanted a place to stay, all other gods drove them away because

of

> > > their cycles,they got angry so they chose that place, near the

sea,

> > > and called themselves pure always because of the water.

> > Menstruating

> > > women are allowed here as once the women enter the temple, they

> > > become pure.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " neelam gupta "

> > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhagavati ji,

> > > >

> > > > Let me support you and add to what you've said.

> > > >

> > > > Article 17 of the Constitution of India abolished caste-based

> > > > untouchability, but perhaps we need another section/amendment

to

> > > abolish

> > > > menstrual untouchability.

> > > >

> > > > The Times of India (June 8, 2008, Chennai edition) carried a

> > report

> > > on how a

> > > > Tamil Nadu state minister had on May 27 inaugurated

an 'isolation

> > > room' for

> > > > menstruating women in the remote village of Thuvaar in

> > Thirupattur.

> > > > According to the ToI report, a soothsayer had predicted that

> > rains

> > > failed

> > > > because the village gods were angry that the 'Muttukuruchi'

> > system

> > > had been

> > > > discontinued for the past few years. To revive the system of

> > > isolating women

> > > > and young girls on their reaching puberty, the villagers had

> > > constructed the

> > > > cramped eighty square foot isolation room were bleeding women

> > could

> > > be

> > > > banished.

> > > >

> > > > Many myths, legends, and taboos have grown up around

menstruation

> > > throughout

> > > > the centuries, all with the underlying sentiment that

> > menstruating

> > > women are

> > > > unclean and capable of producing bad effects on the world

about

> > > them and it

> > > > became a focus of religious observance.

> > > >

> > > > Such ludicrous ideas were perpetrated by the male dominated

Hindu

> > > society to

> > > > degrade the women and create a complex that the women are

> > inferior

> > > to men.

> > > > Menstruation is a normal physiological process. This was

created

> > > for a

> > > > specific function in women. Hence, there is nothing wrong or

to

> > be

> > > ashamed

> > > > when women go through menstruation. It is utter ignorance to

> > > consider the

> > > > women to be impure and polluting during this time. It is

> > ridiculous

> > > to

> > > > believe that gods do not want them to come to their abodes -

> > > temples- during

> > > > such times.

> > > >

> > > > The negative ideology surrounding menstruation can also be

seen

> > in

> > > the type

> > > > and amount of research that has been done on menstruation.

What

> > is

> > > quoted

> > > > everywhere, for example, is the research by David Macht in

1924,

> > > which

> > > > allegedly showed the existence of menotoxins in menstrual

blood,

> > > which

> > > > destroyed plant life. With this research some men think

they've

> > got

> > > a

> > > > scientific sanction for their beliefs. This research, however,

> > has

> > > never

> > > > been replicated, and in fact, in an attempt to replicate this

> > > experiment,

> > > > researchers in 1934 found that non-menstruating women give off

> > more

> > > of these

> > > > toxins then menstruating women do (Taylor, 1988).

> > > >

> > > > Even if proved that menstrual blood has toxins, it does not

mean

> > > women start

> > > > emanating germs all around. They don't become lethat bip-

weapons.

> > > For that

> > > > matter, by this logic, people carrying deadly viruses and

> > > contagious blood

> > > > infections should be isolated and not allowed in the temples.

> > > >

> > > > The basal body temperature theory also doesn't hold good as

it is

> > > only 0.4

> > > > deg F rise in BBT on an average. This cannot spoil the

pickles or

> > > wilt the

> > > > flowers by touching. If at all, in olden days women were not

> > > allowed to make

> > > > pickles during this time, may be for this reason.

> > > >

> > > > I would say that the women are also responsible for the

> > persistence

> > > of this

> > > > appalling ignorance. There are many highly educated females,

who

> > > would not

> > > > step inside a temple during this time.

> > > >

> > > > Pollution and pureness depend on your speech, action and

deeds.

> > In

> > > Hindu

> > > > philosophy, the main purpose of the soul is to attain

liberation.

> > > This

> > > > primarily depends on the karma that each soul has committed.

> > > Liberation of

> > > > the soul neither depends on the sex of the soul nor on the

blood

> > > that the -

> > > > temporary - physical body sheds.

> > > > God will accept any one as long as their minds and actions are

> > pure.

> > > >

> > > > Let women take a firm stand on this issue and give up the

> > ignorance

> > > that

> > > > menstruation is awful. Let us make sure that the men do not

> > dictate

> > > terms

> > > > with the female anatomy and physiology. Only then

the 'Creator'

> > > would smile

> > > > upon them.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Neelam

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jaya ji, I don't remember. But for sure - could be. Because he is a true worshiper of Mother goddess and is obsessed Astronomy, History, Spirituality and many more. He went to Chengannur I believe...may be he mentioned it in this group itself. Yes, you could be right.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "revati_n27" <revati_n27 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji:> > If my memory is correct one of the astronomy articles in the group > file section (ChandraHariji) has the mention of the Chengannur temple > and its Kuthambalam.> > Jaya > > > mentions , "Sreenadh" > sreesog@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Jaya ji,> > That was nice info. By the way, do you know that Peruntachan is > the> > brathor of 5th century scholar Astronomar Haridattan (alias, > Naranttu> > Bhrantan) who created/popularised the Parahita Ganita beeja> > corrections?> > ==> > >> The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural > design was> > > by the famous Perunthachan.> > <==> > This statement indicates that the said temple in Chengannur > dates back> > to 5th century AD!! You might be able to find more info and > correlation> > if you meditate on the history of the above Siva -Sakti temple. > Siva,> > Sakti, Tantirc systems, Haridatta who followed Aryabhata the Jain> > scholar to create Parahita system - the thread of info can take you > a> > long way; that too based on the history of your place and the temple> > present there itself!!> > Note: It is the usual path of learning and research. Something > in our> > neighborhood interests us; we start thinking about it; data and info> > accumulates; unforeseen insights and info gets revealed; the > uniqueness> > of the ideas and its contrasts with the common understanding > baffles us;> > the story continues.....a researcher is born!!!! Whether it be > history> > or science the system remains the same... > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "revati_n27"> > <revati_n27@> wrote:> > >> > > Please excuse me Sreenadhji for adding one more piece of > information> > > related to the subject declared to be closed.> > >> > > There is an ancient Siva-Parvati Temple in my neighborhood,> > > Chengannur, Kerala. Compared to other temples, this temple is > quiet> > > distinct because the festival of this Temple is TRIPUTHARATTU > which> > > is considered as a symbol of fertility. This festival is connected> > > with Devi's menstruation ceremony, which is observed periodically > in> > > the temple. That is why this temple is also considered as Shakthi> > > Peedam, according to the legends Her lions fell on this place.> > > Thousands of people participate during this celebration.> > >> > > The temple was constructed centuries ago and architectural design > was> > > by the famous Perunthachan. KUTHAMBALAM (Performance Hall) had > been> > > designed and constructed in a way that the shadow of the performer> > > would not fall on the stage if all the lamps were lit on each of > the> > > post of the Kuthambalam.> > >> > > Jaya> > > .> > > --- In> > > , "bhagavathi_hariharan"> > > bhagavathi_hariharan@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Neelamji,> > > >> > > > Thank you and well written. There need not be any constituition> > > > baning anything, untouchability will exist, it is strength to > the> > > > society. How else can politicians rise? Instead, the Indian> > > > Government can consider giving "three days paid leave to all> > > working> > > > women each month". Casteism, racism etc will always be there. In> > > fact> > > > it begins at home itself like charity.> > > >> > > > If out of three daughters in a home, on of them is dark, you can> > > > imagine what she passes through.> > > >> > > > In Iyengar temples, Iyers are outcastes, interstingly both are> > > > brahmins.> > > >> > > > It exists in US also, blacks have their own party, hispanics > have> > > > their own party, Chinese have their own, Indians have their> > > own "many> > > > parties- state wise".> > > >> > > > Regarding, the temple issue, it is commonsense for a lady not > to go> > > > to the temple. She can stay away from controversy. I already> > > > explained the scientific reson for the pickles. The reason we > go to> > > > the temple is obviously to pray and medidate, although now-a-> days> > > it> > > > is to socialize. Women will not be mentally fit that time as > she is> > > > coping up with hormone changes.> > > >> > > > The Mahalaxmi temple in Bombay has an interesting story, the > three> > > > devis are mahakali, mahalaxmi in the center and mahasarswati. > Here> > > > Kali is in her Shant roop. The three Goddesses had their cycles > and> > > > wanted a place to stay, all other gods drove them away because > of> > > > their cycles,they got angry so they chose that place, near the > sea,> > > > and called themselves pure always because of the water.> > > Menstruating> > > > women are allowed here as once the women enter the temple, they> > > > become pure.> > > >> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "neelam gupta"> > > > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Bhagavati ji,> > > > >> > > > > Let me support you and add to what you've said.> > > > >> > > > > Article 17 of the Constitution of India abolished caste-based> > > > > untouchability, but perhaps we need another section/amendment > to> > > > abolish> > > > > menstrual untouchability.> > > > >> > > > > The Times of India (June 8, 2008, Chennai edition) carried a> > > report> > > > on how a> > > > > Tamil Nadu state minister had on May 27 inaugurated > an 'isolation> > > > room' for> > > > > menstruating women in the remote village of Thuvaar in> > > Thirupattur.> > > > > According to the ToI report, a soothsayer had predicted that> > > rains> > > > failed> > > > > because the village gods were angry that the 'Muttukuruchi'> > > system> > > > had been> > > > > discontinued for the past few years. To revive the system of> > > > isolating women> > > > > and young girls on their reaching puberty, the villagers had> > > > constructed the> > > > > cramped eighty square foot isolation room were bleeding women> > > could> > > > be> > > > > banished.> > > > >> > > > > Many myths, legends, and taboos have grown up around > menstruation> > > > throughout> > > > > the centuries, all with the underlying sentiment that> > > menstruating> > > > women are> > > > > unclean and capable of producing bad effects on the world > about> > > > them and it> > > > > became a focus of religious observance.> > > > >> > > > > Such ludicrous ideas were perpetrated by the male dominated > Hindu> > > > society to> > > > > degrade the women and create a complex that the women are> > > inferior> > > > to men.> > > > > Menstruation is a normal physiological process. This was > created> > > > for a> > > > > specific function in women. Hence, there is nothing wrong or > to> > > be> > > > ashamed> > > > > when women go through menstruation. It is utter ignorance to> > > > consider the> > > > > women to be impure and polluting during this time. It is> > > ridiculous> > > > to> > > > > believe that gods do not want them to come to their abodes -> > > > temples- during> > > > > such times.> > > > >> > > > > The negative ideology surrounding menstruation can also be > seen> > > in> > > > the type> > > > > and amount of research that has been done on menstruation. > What> > > is> > > > quoted> > > > > everywhere, for example, is the research by David Macht in > 1924,> > > > which> > > > > allegedly showed the existence of menotoxins in menstrual > blood,> > > > which> > > > > destroyed plant life. With this research some men think > they've> > > got> > > > a> > > > > scientific sanction for their beliefs. This research, however,> > > has> > > > never> > > > > been replicated, and in fact, in an attempt to replicate this> > > > experiment,> > > > > researchers in 1934 found that non-menstruating women give off> > > more> > > > of these> > > > > toxins then menstruating women do (Taylor, 1988).> > > > >> > > > > Even if proved that menstrual blood has toxins, it does not > mean> > > > women start> > > > > emanating germs all around. They don't become lethat bip-> weapons.> > > > For that> > > > > matter, by this logic, people carrying deadly viruses and> > > > contagious blood> > > > > infections should be isolated and not allowed in the temples.> > > > >> > > > > The basal body temperature theory also doesn't hold good as > it is> > > > only 0.4> > > > > deg F rise in BBT on an average. This cannot spoil the > pickles or> > > > wilt the> > > > > flowers by touching. If at all, in olden days women were not> > > > allowed to make> > > > > pickles during this time, may be for this reason.> > > > >> > > > > I would say that the women are also responsible for the> > > persistence> > > > of this> > > > > appalling ignorance. There are many highly educated females, > who> > > > would not> > > > > step inside a temple during this time.> > > > >> > > > > Pollution and pureness depend on your speech, action and > deeds.> > > In> > > > Hindu> > > > > philosophy, the main purpose of the soul is to attain > liberation.> > > > This> > > > > primarily depends on the karma that each soul has committed.> > > > Liberation of> > > > > the soul neither depends on the sex of the soul nor on the > blood> > > > that the -> > > > > temporary - physical body sheds.> > > > > God will accept any one as long as their minds and actions are> > > pure.> > > > >> > > > > Let women take a firm stand on this issue and give up the> > > ignorance> > > > that> > > > > menstruation is awful. Let us make sure that the men do not> > > dictate> > > > terms> > > > > with the female anatomy and physiology. Only then > the 'Creator'> > > > would smile> > > > > upon them.> > > > >> > > > > Regards> > > > > Neelam> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>