Are we independent,dependent or interdependent????

[Guest guest]

ONCE IT HAPPENED, a chief minister of a state -- and it will be better to call him a 'mischief minister' -- came to see me, and he said, "I am a self-made man." I told him, "Thank you. You have relieved God of a great responsibility. "Self-made?You have to be born out of a mother and a father. You have to depend on your breathing, on the air. You have to depend for your food on the trees. You have to depend for your warmth on the sun. You have to depend on the seas, rivers, fire. You are dependent.CAN YOU EXIST EVEN FOR A SINGLE MOMENT IF YOU ARE DISCONNECTED FROM EVERYTHING YOU ARE PLUGGED INTO? Just think: disconnected from the sun, disconnected from the air, disconnected from the earth. Can you live, can you exist even for a single moment? Impossible! We are not independent, we are not dependent. WE LIVE IN A KIND OF INTERDEPENDENCE. That is the truth. These two words are just two extremes: independence and dependence. Both are false. Just exactly in the middle of the two is the truth: interdependence.Because really ONLY THE WHOLE EXISTS. I don't exist, you don't exit. How can I be self-sufficient? How can you be self-sufficient? Nobody can be. ONLY THE WHOLE IS SELF-SUFFICIENT. And only the whole can be self-sufficient. The whole exists on its own.That's why we say, God is self-sufficient. God means the total. GOD IS NOT A PERSON, BUT THE TOTALITY OF ALL. It includes everything -- so it cannot depend on anything else because there is nothing outside it.BUT IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, THEN EACH PART DEPENDS ON ANOTHER. Then we live in an ocean of interdependence. You cannot be born without a mother, without a father. You cannot be born without existence supporting you from every side, visibly, invisibly. When you are in love you cannot be self-sufficient, you will seek a woman or a man. When you meditate you will need somebody who knows what meditation is, not through books but through his experience.That's what Ikkyu means when he says: ASK SOMEONE, ASK THE AWAKENED. Ask someone who has mercy and sincerity, truth and wisdom. Ask somebody who has known, who has become. Ask somebody who has disappeared. Ask somebody who no more exists on the plane of ego, whose ego is no more relevant. Be with him, be in his presence, imbibe his presence.And remember, you are not becoming dependent on another human being. That's why in the East WE DON'T CALL THE MASTER A HUMAN BEING. We have called Buddha, 'Bhagwan', Mahavira, 'Bhagwan', Krishna, 'Bhagwan', for a certain reason. We don't call them human beings. Not that they are not just like you -- they are just like you, and yet something has happened in them that has transformed their being, has illuminated their being. Something of the beyond has penetrated them. They are openings to God, so we have called them gods.Christians feel very offended, Mohammedans feel very offended, Jews feel very offended, when they think that Buddha is called a god. Why? He is just a human being -- Buddha himself says, "I am a human being." But a human being who no more exists on the plane of the ego. Yes, just like you, he has the body. And he eats and excretes and sleeps and he is born and will die just like you. But still, something is there which is not like you: he is absent in the deepest core of his being. And through that absence a new presence has become available there: GOD HAS DESCENDED IN HIM. You can have a look through him into the totality of all.To find a Master does not mean that you have contacted a person, it means you have contacted a PRESENCE. Just presence, not a person.OSHOTake It EasyVol. II, Ch #2: It Ain't Easy! am in Buddha Hall

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji,

 

That was beautiful....thanks. How true it is..I mean

interdependence...

 

blessings

 

Renu

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

>

>

> ONCE IT HAPPENED, a chief minister of a state -- and it will be

better

> to call him a 'mischief minister' -- came to see me, and he

said, " I am

> a self-made man. " I told him, " Thank you. You have relieved God of

a

> great responsibility. "

>

> Self-made?

>

> You have to be born out of a mother and a father. You have to

depend on

> your breathing, on the air. You have to depend for your food on the

> trees. You have to depend for your warmth on the sun. You have to

depend

> on the seas, rivers, fire. You are dependent.

>

> CAN YOU EXIST EVEN FOR A SINGLE MOMENT IF YOU ARE DISCONNECTED FROM

> EVERYTHING YOU ARE PLUGGED INTO? Just think: disconnected from the

sun,

> disconnected from the air, disconnected from the earth. Can you

live,

> can you exist even for a single moment? Impossible!

>

> We are not independent, we are not dependent. WE LIVE IN A KIND OF

> INTERDEPENDENCE. That is the truth. These two words are just two

> extremes: independence and dependence. Both are false. Just

exactly in

> the middle of the two is the truth: interdependence.

>

> Because really ONLY THE WHOLE EXISTS. I don't exist, you don't

exit. How

> can I be self-sufficient? How can you be self-sufficient? Nobody

can be.

> ONLY THE WHOLE IS SELF-SUFFICIENT. And only the whole can be

> self-sufficient. The whole exists on its own.

>

> That's why we say, God is self-sufficient. God means the total.

GOD IS

> NOT A PERSON, BUT THE TOTALITY OF ALL. It includes everything --

so it

> cannot depend on anything else because there is nothing outside it.

>

> BUT IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, THEN EACH PART DEPENDS ON ANOTHER. Then we

live

> in an ocean of interdependence. You cannot be born without a

mother,

> without a father. You cannot be born without existence supporting

you

> from every side, visibly, invisibly. When you are in love you

cannot be

> self-sufficient, you will seek a woman or a man. When you meditate

you

> will need somebody who knows what meditation is, not through books

but

> through his experience.

>

> That's what Ikkyu means when he says: ASK SOMEONE, ASK THE

AWAKENED. Ask

> someone who has mercy and sincerity, truth and wisdom. Ask

somebody who

> has known, who has become. Ask somebody who has disappeared. Ask

> somebody who no more exists on the plane of ego, whose ego is no

more

> relevant. Be with him, be in his presence, imbibe his presence.

>

> And remember, you are not becoming dependent on another human

being.

> That's why in the East WE DON'T CALL THE MASTER A HUMAN BEING. We

have

> called Buddha, 'Bhagwan', Mahavira, 'Bhagwan', Krishna, 'Bhagwan',

for a

> certain reason. We don't call them human beings. Not that they are

not

> just like you -- they are just like you, and yet something has

happened

> in them that has transformed their being, has illuminated their

being.

> Something of the beyond has penetrated them. They are openings to

God,

> so we have called them gods.

>

> Christians feel very offended, Mohammedans feel very offended,

Jews feel

> very offended, when they think that Buddha is called a god. Why?

He is

> just a human being -- Buddha himself says, " I am a human being. "

But a

> human being who no more exists on the plane of the ego. Yes, just

like

> you, he has the body. And he eats and excretes and sleeps and he

is born

> and will die just like you. But still, something is there which is

not

> like you: he is absent in the deepest core of his being. And

through

> that absence a new presence has become available there: GOD HAS

> DESCENDED IN HIM. You can have a look through him into the

totality of

> all.

>

> To find a Master does not mean that you have contacted a person, it

> means you have contacted a PRESENCE. Just presence, not a person.

>

> OSHO

> Take It Easy

> Vol. II, Ch #2: It Ain't Easy!

> am in Buddha Hall

>

[Guest guest]

Hare ramakrishna ,

dear sreenadh ji and renu ji

Thnaks for comments on the post .

sreenadh ji i hope u r busy shedule is over and u will b coming back to grp activities soon .

we realy miss u

 

regrds sunil nair

 

om shreem mahalaxmai namah .

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Renu ji, Sunil ji,> Yes, it is relieving to be in peace with the Universe and Osho. > Truth is difficult to digest at present, but once accepted it can be > the biggest solace....peace...with one self and all...inside > out...when I know that I am none…the blame that "you are none"…never > touch me…because then I know myself to be none and beyond at the same > time…I know that you are me….and me not…..and that the world is > interdependent… > Love,> Sreenadh> > , "renunw" > renunw@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Sunil ji,> > > > That was beautiful....thanks. How true it is..I mean > > interdependence...> > > > blessings> > > > Renu> > , "sunil nair" > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ONCE IT HAPPENED, a chief minister of a state -- and it will be > > better> > > to call him a 'mischief minister' -- came to see me, and he > > said, "I am> > > a self-made man." I told him, "Thank you. You have relieved God > of > > a> > > great responsibility. "> > > > > > Self-made?> > > > > > You have to be born out of a mother and a father. You have to > > depend on> > > your breathing, on the air. You have to depend for your food on > the> > > trees. You have to depend for your warmth on the sun. You have to > > depend> > > on the seas, rivers, fire. You are dependent.> > > > > > CAN YOU EXIST EVEN FOR A SINGLE MOMENT IF YOU ARE DISCONNECTED > FROM> > > EVERYTHING YOU ARE PLUGGED INTO? Just think: disconnected from > the > > sun,> > > disconnected from the air, disconnected from the earth. Can you > > live,> > > can you exist even for a single moment? Impossible!> > > > > > We are not independent, we are not dependent. WE LIVE IN A KIND OF> > > INTERDEPENDENCE. That is the truth. These two words are just two> > > extremes: independence and dependence. Both are false. Just > > exactly in> > > the middle of the two is the truth: interdependence.> > > > > > Because really ONLY THE WHOLE EXISTS. I don't exist, you don't > > exit. How> > > can I be self-sufficient? How can you be self-sufficient? Nobody > > can be.> > > ONLY THE WHOLE IS SELF-SUFFICIENT. And only the whole can be> > > self-sufficient. The whole exists on its own.> > > > > > That's why we say, God is self-sufficient. God means the total. > > GOD IS> > > NOT A PERSON, BUT THE TOTALITY OF ALL. It includes everything -- > > so it> > > cannot depend on anything else because there is nothing outside > it.> > > > > > BUT IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, THEN EACH PART DEPENDS ON ANOTHER. Then > we > > live> > > in an ocean of interdependence. You cannot be born without a > > mother,> > > without a father. You cannot be born without existence supporting > > you> > > from every side, visibly, invisibly. When you are in love you > > cannot be> > > self-sufficient, you will seek a woman or a man. When you > meditate > > you> > > will need somebody who knows what meditation is, not through > books > > but> > > through his experience.> > > > > > That's what Ikkyu means when he says: ASK SOMEONE, ASK THE > > AWAKENED. Ask> > > someone who has mercy and sincerity, truth and wisdom. Ask > > somebody who> > > has known, who has become. Ask somebody who has disappeared. Ask> > > somebody who no more exists on the plane of ego, whose ego is no > > more> > > relevant. Be with him, be in his presence, imbibe his presence.> > > > > > And remember, you are not becoming dependent on another human > > being.> > > That's why in the East WE DON'T CALL THE MASTER A HUMAN BEING. We > > have> > > called Buddha, 'Bhagwan', Mahavira, 'Bhagwan', > Krishna, 'Bhagwan', > > for a> > > certain reason. We don't call them human beings. Not that they > are > > not> > > just like you -- they are just like you, and yet something has > > happened> > > in them that has transformed their being, has illuminated their > > being.> > > Something of the beyond has penetrated them. They are openings to > > God,> > > so we have called them gods.> > > > > > Christians feel very offended, Mohammedans feel very offended, > > Jews feel> > > very offended, when they think that Buddha is called a god. Why? > > He is> > > just a human being -- Buddha himself says, "I am a human being." > > But a> > > human being who no more exists on the plane of the ego. Yes, just > > like> > > you, he has the body. And he eats and excretes and sleeps and he > > is born> > > and will die just like you. But still, something is there which > is > > not> > > like you: he is absent in the deepest core of his being. And > > through> > > that absence a new presence has become available there: GOD HAS> > > DESCENDED IN HIM. You can have a look through him into the > > totality of> > > all.> > > > > > To find a Master does not mean that you have contacted a person, > it> > > means you have contacted a PRESENCE. Just presence, not a person.> > > > > > OSHO> > > Take It Easy> > > Vol. II, Ch #2: It Ain't Easy!> > > am in Buddha Hall> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

Good to see you back...and that too with some nice thoughts

 

blessings,

 

Renu

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji, Rather than busy schedule (of busy job schedule was present, but still), for me as an individual it was a period of self assessment. I never touched any astrology book during these period (i.e past 1 month). But the self assessment and thoughts prompts me to 'start again from the basics; and drop any claim that I know astrology'. Astrology demands more dedication and the amount I forget seems to be more than the amount I learn. Missing ready interaction with the people and learned astrologers - make me miss a lot. I have a lot of interdependence on other kerala scholars, astrologers and people it seems; a happy as well as sad understanding. Anyway learning is always pleasure - and I am again a student; both in Testing (My profession) and Astrology (My hobby and interest). May be I should resonate the true words of Souvik ji .... 'Student always...'. I bow to you all for providing a good learning atmosphere for me both in the past and future. Let the blessing of the divine be with us all......Love, Sreenadh , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > > > Hare ramakrishna ,> > dear sreenadh ji and renu ji> > Thnaks for comments on the post .> > sreenadh ji i hope u r busy shedule is over and u will b coming back to> grp activities soon .> > we realy miss u> > > > regrds sunil nair> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah .> > > > > , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Renu ji, Sunil ji,> > Yes, it is relieving to be in peace with the Universe and Osho.> > Truth is difficult to digest at present, but once accepted it can be> > the biggest solace....peace...with one self and all...inside> > out...when I know that I am none…the blame that "you are> none"…never> > touch me…because then I know myself to be none and beyond at the> same> > time…I know that you are me….and me not…..and that the> world is> > interdependent…> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >> > , "renunw"> > renunw@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Sunil ji,> > >> > > That was beautiful....thanks. How true it is..I mean> > > interdependence...> > >> > > blessings> > >> > > Renu> > > , "sunil nair"> > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ONCE IT HAPPENED, a chief minister of a state -- and it will be> > > better> > > > to call him a 'mischief minister' -- came to see me, and he> > > said, "I am> > > > a self-made man." I told him, "Thank you. You have relieved God> > of> > > a> > > > great responsibility. "> > > >> > > > Self-made?> > > >> > > > You have to be born out of a mother and a father. You have to> > > depend on> > > > your breathing, on the air. You have to depend for your food on> > the> > > > trees. You have to depend for your warmth on the sun. You have to> > > depend> > > > on the seas, rivers, fire. You are dependent.> > > >> > > > CAN YOU EXIST EVEN FOR A SINGLE MOMENT IF YOU ARE DISCONNECTED> > FROM> > > > EVERYTHING YOU ARE PLUGGED INTO? Just think: disconnected from> > the> > > sun,> > > > disconnected from the air, disconnected from the earth. Can you> > > live,> > > > can you exist even for a single moment? Impossible!> > > >> > > > We are not independent, we are not dependent. WE LIVE IN A KIND OF> > > > INTERDEPENDENCE. That is the truth. These two words are just two> > > > extremes: independence and dependence. Both are false. Just> > > exactly in> > > > the middle of the two is the truth: interdependence.> > > >> > > > Because really ONLY THE WHOLE EXISTS. I don't exist, you don't> > > exit. How> > > > can I be self-sufficient? How can you be self-sufficient? Nobody> > > can be.> > > > ONLY THE WHOLE IS SELF-SUFFICIENT. And only the whole can be> > > > self-sufficient. The whole exists on its own.> > > >> > > > That's why we say, God is self-sufficient. God means the total.> > > GOD IS> > > > NOT A PERSON, BUT THE TOTALITY OF ALL. It includes everything --> > > so it> > > > cannot depend on anything else because there is nothing outside> > it.> > > >> > > > BUT IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, THEN EACH PART DEPENDS ON ANOTHER. Then> > we> > > live> > > > in an ocean of interdependence. You cannot be born without a> > > mother,> > > > without a father. You cannot be born without existence supporting> > > you> > > > from every side, visibly, invisibly. When you are in love you> > > cannot be> > > > self-sufficient, you will seek a woman or a man. When you> > meditate> > > you> > > > will need somebody who knows what meditation is, not through> > books> > > but> > > > through his experience.> > > >> > > > That's what Ikkyu means when he says: ASK SOMEONE, ASK THE> > > AWAKENED. Ask> > > > someone who has mercy and sincerity, truth and wisdom. Ask> > > somebody who> > > > has known, who has become. Ask somebody who has disappeared. Ask> > > > somebody who no more exists on the plane of ego, whose ego is no> > > more> > > > relevant. Be with him, be in his presence, imbibe his presence.> > > >> > > > And remember, you are not becoming dependent on another human> > > being.> > > > That's why in the East WE DON'T CALL THE MASTER A HUMAN BEING. We> > > have> > > > called Buddha, 'Bhagwan', Mahavira, 'Bhagwan',> > Krishna, 'Bhagwan',> > > for a> > > > certain reason. We don't call them human beings. Not that they> > are> > > not> > > > just like you -- they are just like you, and yet something has> > > happened> > > > in them that has transformed their being, has illuminated their> > > being.> > > > Something of the beyond has penetrated them. They are openings to> > > God,> > > > so we have called them gods.> > > >> > > > Christians feel very offended, Mohammedans feel very offended,> > > Jews feel> > > > very offended, when they think that Buddha is called a god. Why?> > > He is> > > > just a human being -- Buddha himself says, "I am a human being."> > > But a> > > > human being who no more exists on the plane of the ego. Yes, just> > > like> > > > you, he has the body. And he eats and excretes and sleeps and he> > > is born> > > > and will die just like you. But still, something is there which> > is> > > not> > > > like you: he is absent in the deepest core of his being. And> > > through> > > > that absence a new presence has become available there: GOD HAS> > > > DESCENDED IN HIM. You can have a look through him into the> > > totality of> > > > all.> > > >> > > > To find a Master does not mean that you have contacted a person,> > it> > > > means you have contacted a PRESENCE. Just presence, not a person.> > > >> > > > OSHO> > > > Take It Easy> > > > Vol. II, Ch #2: It Ain't Easy!> > > > am in Buddha Hall> > > >> > >> >>