Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Dear Rishi prasad, What ettiquette are you speaking about? I saw your website and found that you are charging $550 = Rs 21000/- for a reading. What are your credentials to charge such huge amount from innocent people? Are you qualified to offer such high value service? Don't speak of ettiquette like p*****s speaking of chastity. You and people like you have to be diplomatic with the whole world to exploit them. I don't want to exploit anyone and so I speak in the interests of Jyotihsastram/ chandra hari , " Rishi Prasad " <rishiprasad wrote: > > Namaskar, > I am very impressed by the mature manner in which Neelam has countered > Chandra Haris verbal assault on her. It is refreshing to see such an > attitude. The astrology we can always debate upon. But etiquette such as > this can not be learnt-not this late in life anyway. My kudos to Neelam. > Rishi > > 2008/5/9 neelam gupta neelamgupta07: > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji, > > > > Namaste, > > > > You should've been a politician.... eyes to see opposition everywhere... > > > > ...just want to clarify a few points for the sake of my own integrity than > > anything else. > > > > A biased discussion and ground preparation for that is apparent in her > > words. Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not finding any > > justification in the events. > > > > I am not biased (…as yet I have no theory to be biased for) and there is no > > ground preparation. It is just a matter of debate and in the wake of an > > on-going discussion on use of different ayanamshas. If there are no counter > > arguments or such arguments are called biased and ground preparing exercises > > (though I don't understand ground preparing for what? I have no association > > what so ever – with Lahiri, neither am I born in chitra), how will I decide > > in favour of one or the other? > > > > Basically the probe started when a found a difference with respect to your > > statement: > > " This is a chart where the Rasi and Navamsa are the same in Raman, Lahiri > > and the ayanamsa " (ref your document on Tagore) > > > > When I cast the chart, I found Mars in 4H with CPA. Navamsha also changed > > drastically. And mars comes to libra navamsh with venus (you are trying to > > find venus-mars connection when mars is in 4H). > > > > Either I have got the chart wrong…then the argument can be on grounds as to > > 9L mars is giving results of 3H or 4H or both? Which appears to be the case > > as even with CHA, mars goes to 4H in chalit chart. With CPA also he is sort > > of placed in one but a foot in other. > > > > Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not finding any > > justification in the events.... > > > > Nothing is strange if we do not see it with strange eyes…. > > > > Since 9L is the most important planet after LL, being the strongest kona > > and governing the prarabdh and bhagya, we must be sure about its placement. > > > > Primary purpose of a soul is governed by the lord of prarabdh. i.e 9L. How > > one does that is seen by his placement and associations. Rashi chart will > > define the primary purpose and for fine tuning we move to navamsh and > > vargas. > > > > Mars, the 9L and 2L in 4H has given him the ability to raise both manpower > > and funds to build institutions and association of karmic nodes help him > > achieve that. Regarding the writing and painting abilities, mars is the > > dispositor of venus, Mer and sun in exchange involving 2H, 3H and 4H. In > > navamsha, mars is with venus in 3H in libra. This explains the fine > > abilities in painting. > > > > But more than painting, Tagore is famous for his writing and literary > > skills. He got the Noble prize also for Literature. Mars in natural 3H in > > Gemini and 4H in natal chart would give him the kind of writings he is > > famous for. With ketu along with fineness, literary skills, and language > > skills. > > > > Mars in 4H forms a stronger rajyoga which should be taken for defining the > > purpose of his life and for fine-tuning that purpose the yoga gets confirmed > > and strengthened in navamsh when mars aspects 9H with venus. Classics always > > say that Rajyoga is association of trinal and Kendra houses and lords. In 3H > > there is no rajyoga, even if mars aspects own house. Mars in 4H also forms > > another rajyoga in parivartan with 4L and 7L mercury. > > > > Regarding the 6/8 relationship with 9H, we cannot say it will be doomed > > across board. There will obviously be some deficiency regarding 9H, but it > > also gives the depth of thinking, spirituality, research-mindedness. His > > father was a Brahmosamaj worker associated with religion and spirituality. > > In CHA, when mars goes to 3H, it is in 7H Taurus and venus is 7L and 12L in > > 6H from 9H. > > > > Mass appeal and public adulation is in the domain of 4H. Nodes become > > yogkaraks if associated with trinal lord in Kendra or trine. This is well > > known dictum. > > > > We cannot wish away any placement like that, unless and until we find solid > > grounds. I have uploaded the file in files section and please check the > > navamsh given by CPA in this case. > > > > I would've answered all the questions raised by you, but one-sided approach > > is useless ending up with naming and blaming. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Dear Chandra Hari ji,I am saying this with due respect to your experience and knowledge and I have not formed any opinion yet. My experience is very small as compared to your life long study and just one small angle in chart cannot make me form any opinion. It was a matter of debate only and may be taken as such.... Some more thoughts on that: 1. Tagore is the youngest kid - Mars in 3rd house, Karakao Bhavanasaya. 2. Tagore has Putrakaraka Guru in 5th leading to Putradukha, again illustrating Karako Bhavanasaya Sthanhani Karo Jeeva and karko bhav nashaye cannot be applied generally but only under certain conditions. Let us take 5H affairs to clarify: We see the fructification of events through Bhav-Bhavesh and Karak primarily. If an event is seen through all three we may predict the event with a certain level of confidence. Jupiter here is the karak for children in Bhava of children. It is just like bhavesh as it is in exchange with moon, the 5th lord. Jupiter is also exalted to give very auspicious results. Jupiter thus assumes the role of all three bhav-bhavesh-karak for 5H supported by moon in lagna. But it is also like putting all your eggs in one basket. Any slightest affliction on this Jupiter results in loss for the house. Here Jupiter is not directly under affliction, so the native gets many children. No harm done by Jupiter as such. Two of the kids dying in a period when mortality was very high in India is not such a big issue. Even very slight affliction could've caused it. But 6H from Jupiter has Rahu and 5H is in papkatri so the periods connected with mars, Saturn and Rahu are expected to harm children. In navamsha Jup is in saturn's house and saturn in 12H in cancer the 5H of rashi. Hence the Karko Bhav Nashaye does not mean that karak is destroying the house or sthan hani karo jeeva does not imply that Jupiter is causing harm to the house. It is just that when all the portfolios are being carried by one planet, he becomes more vulnerable to harmful aspects, but when under benefic influence it is also capable of giving excellent results. Similarly, there are many cases where many younger brothers are born if mars is not afflicted in 3H 3. Tagore has the exchange of 2nd and 3rd lords = Author, writer, painter, musician, singer 4. May be Mars exchanging Venus and in 3rd had made him play music on instruments also. This can also happen as Mars is in exchange with mercury and both mer and venus are in Aries in 2H with sun and mars is in Gemini. In navamsh mars is with venus in 3H in libra and mercury in 2H. he was more into literary skills given by mercury with venus. Being a painter and musician was an add on. An why do we forget the moon in pisces in lagna and LL jup in cancer in house of creativity. 5. Mars aspecting its own 9th house (overseas) and taking namsa in 7th (long journeys) 9L in 4H also gives long overseas journeys. It is collaborated in navamsha positions. In 4H, 9L also aspects 7H of journeys. Being in natural 3H also adds and Gemini also gives journey's for literary pursuits. 6. Death in Rahu_Mars where Mars is a dire Marka being in exchange with 3rd and 8th lord and owning 2nd. It is very difficult to assign death to any planet especially when it is poornayu. Once all other events tally for one particular ayanamsha and dasha, we can also agree to death giving period also.RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Haha, so much for moderating the group. I can without doubt say that, when moderators are allowing such personal attacks from either side, then there is no use in them requesting all members to refrain from such attacks. While Mr. Rishiprasad's email doesnt have verbal abuse but has tactful reply, Mr. Chandrahari's definitely has some direct abuse. Let's see how the moderators are going to resolve this. It seems moderators are going by age and expertise in allowing such abusive emails. And the irony is that each moderator repeats everytime that this group doesnt recognize anyone by their age or expertise. So much for democracy and hypocracy, LOL.Regards,Vijay.PS: I am expecting this email to be moderated, given that I dont have many years of experience in jyotishatra, ROFL.chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: Dear Rishi prasad, What ettiquette are you speaking about? I saw your website and found that you are charging $550 = Rs 21000/- for a reading. What are your credentials to charge such huge amount from innocent people? Are you qualified to offer such high value service? Don't speak of ettiquette like p*****s speaking of chastity. You and people like you have to be diplomatic with the whole world to exploit them. I don't want to exploit anyone and so I speak in the interests of Jyotihsastram/ chandra hari , "Rishi Prasad" <rishiprasad wrote: > > Namaskar, > I am very impressed by the mature manner in which Neelam has countered > Chandra Haris verbal assault on her. It is refreshing to see such an > attitude. The astrology we can always debate upon. But etiquette such as > this can not be learnt-not this late in life anyway. My kudos to Neelam. > Rishi > > 2008/5/9 neelam gupta neelamgupta07: > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji, > > > > Namaste, > > > > You should've been a politician.... eyes to see opposition everywhere... > > > > ...just want to clarify a few points for the sake of my own integrity than > > anything else. > > > > A biased discussion and ground preparation for that is apparent in her > > words. Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not finding any > > justification in the events. > > > > I am not biased (…as yet I have no theory to be biased for) and there is no > > ground preparation. It is just a matter of debate and in the wake of an > > on-going discussion on use of different ayanamshas. If there are no counter > > arguments or such arguments are called biased and ground preparing exercises > > (though I don't understand ground preparing for what? I have no association > > what so ever – with Lahiri, neither am I born in chitra), how will I decide > > in favour of one or the other? > > > > Basically the probe started when a found a difference with respect to your > > statement: > > "This is a chart where the Rasi and Navamsa are the same in Raman, Lahiri > > and the ayanamsa" (ref your document on Tagore) > > > > When I cast the chart, I found Mars in 4H with CPA. Navamsha also changed > > drastically. And mars comes to libra navamsh with venus (you are trying to > > find venus-mars connection when mars is in 4H). > > > > Either I have got the chart wrong…then the argument can be on grounds as to > > 9L mars is giving results of 3H or 4H or both? Which appears to be the case > > as even with CHA, mars goes to 4H in chalit chart. With CPA also he is sort > > of placed in one but a foot in other. > > > > Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not finding any > > justification in the events.... > > > > Nothing is strange if we do not see it with strange eyes…. > > > > Since 9L is the most important planet after LL, being the strongest kona > > and governing the prarabdh and bhagya, we must be sure about its placement. > > > > Primary purpose of a soul is governed by the lord of prarabdh. i.e 9L. How > > one does that is seen by his placement and associations. Rashi chart will > > define the primary purpose and for fine tuning we move to navamsh and > > vargas. > > > > Mars, the 9L and 2L in 4H has given him the ability to raise both manpower > > and funds to build institutions and association of karmic nodes help him > > achieve that. Regarding the writing and painting abilities, mars is the > > dispositor of venus, Mer and sun in exchange involving 2H, 3H and 4H. In > > navamsha, mars is with venus in 3H in libra. This explains the fine > > abilities in painting. > > > > But more than painting, Tagore is famous for his writing and literary > > skills. He got the Noble prize also for Literature. Mars in natural 3H in > > Gemini and 4H in natal chart would give him the kind of writings he is > > famous for. With ketu along with fineness, literary skills, and language > > skills. > > > > Mars in 4H forms a stronger rajyoga which should be taken for defining the > > purpose of his life and for fine-tuning that purpose the yoga gets confirmed > > and strengthened in navamsh when mars aspects 9H with venus. Classics always > > say that Rajyoga is association of trinal and Kendra houses and lords. In 3H > > there is no rajyoga, even if mars aspects own house. Mars in 4H also forms > > another rajyoga in parivartan with 4L and 7L mercury. > > > > Regarding the 6/8 relationship with 9H, we cannot say it will be doomed > > across board. There will obviously be some deficiency regarding 9H, but it > > also gives the depth of thinking, spirituality, research-mindedness. His > > father was a Brahmosamaj worker associated with religion and spirituality. > > In CHA, when mars goes to 3H, it is in 7H Taurus and venus is 7L and 12L in > > 6H from 9H. > > > > Mass appeal and public adulation is in the domain of 4H. Nodes become > > yogkaraks if associated with trinal lord in Kendra or trine. This is well > > known dictum. > > > > We cannot wish away any placement like that, unless and until we find solid > > grounds. I have uploaded the file in files section and please check the > > navamsh given by CPA in this case. > > > > I would've answered all the questions raised by you, but one-sided approach > > is useless ending up with naming and blaming. > > > > Regards > > Neelam > > > > > Vande Mataram Yahaan vahaan saara jahaan dekha liyaahe Nehi kahi Tere jaisa koyi nahihe Assi nahi sau din duniya ghumahe Nehi kahi Tere jaisa koyi nahihe Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 hare rama krishna dear vijay ji This is a discussion ,so at times there may be some missing ,were we r also controlling ,we cannot moderate a tread if its having valid discussion s and both of them has high mastery over their subjucts then u know limitations of debates in net ,a person s arguments may be misread by other person because of various reasons ,as the environment may be diffrnt than when we sit together and debate so thanxs for ur comments sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah Ps -here we r worried abt the advtisers posing as doing a discussion and only they do is stupid comments and praises just to make a grping , Vijayanarasimha H Pakka <hpvijaynarasimha wrote:>> Haha, so much for moderating the group. I can without doubt say that, when moderators are allowing such personal attacks from either side, then there is no use in them requesting all members to refrain from such attacks. > > While Mr. Rishiprasad's email doesnt have verbal abuse but has tactful reply, Mr. Chandrahari's definitely has some direct abuse. Let's see how the moderators are going to resolve this. It seems moderators are going by age and expertise in allowing such abusive emails. And the irony is that each moderator repeats everytime that this group doesnt recognize anyone by their age or expertise. So much for democracy and hypocracy, LOL.> > Regards,> Vijay.> > PS: I am expecting this email to be moderated, given that I dont have many years of experience in jyotishatra, ROFL.> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > Dear Rishi prasad,> > What ettiquette are you speaking about? I saw your website and found> that you are charging $550 = Rs 21000/- for a reading. What are your> credentials to charge such huge amount from innocent people? Are you> qualified to offer such high value service?> > Don't speak of ettiquette like p*****s speaking of chastity. You and> people like you have to be diplomatic with the whole world to exploit> them. I don't want to exploit anyone and so I speak in the interests of> Jyotihsastram/> > chandra hari> > , "Rishi Prasad"> rishiprasad@ wrote:> >> > Namaskar,> > I am very impressed by the mature manner in which Neelam has countered> > Chandra Haris verbal assault on her. It is refreshing to see such an> > attitude. The astrology we can always debate upon. But etiquette such> as> > this can not be learnt-not this late in life anyway. My kudos to> Neelam.> > Rishi> >> > 2008/5/9 neelam gupta neelamgupta07@:> >> > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > You should've been a politician.... eyes to see opposition> everywhere...> > >> > > ...just want to clarify a few points for the sake of my own> integrity than> > > anything else.> > >> > > A biased discussion and ground preparation for that is apparent in> her> > > words. Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not> finding any> > > justification in the events.> > >> > > I am not biased (…as yet I have no theory to be biased for) and> there is no> > > ground preparation. It is just a matter of debate and in the wake of> an> > > on-going discussion on use of different ayanamshas. If there are no> counter> > > arguments or such arguments are called biased and ground preparing> exercises> > > (though I don't understand ground preparing for what? I have no> association> > > what so ever – with Lahiri, neither am I born in chitra), how> will I decide> > > in favour of one or the other?> > >> > > Basically the probe started when a found a difference with respect> to your> > > statement:> > > "This is a chart where the Rasi and Navamsa are the same in Raman,> Lahiri> > > and the ayanamsa" (ref your document on Tagore)> > >> > > When I cast the chart, I found Mars in 4H with CPA. Navamsha also> changed> > > drastically. And mars comes to libra navamsh with venus (you are> trying to> > > find venus-mars connection when mars is in 4H).> > >> > > Either I have got the chart wrong…then the argument can be on> grounds as to> > > 9L mars is giving results of 3H or 4H or both? Which appears to be> the case> > > as even with CHA, mars goes to 4H in chalit chart. With CPA also he> is sort> > > of placed in one but a foot in other.> > >> > > Whatever strange astrology is given in her posting is not finding> any> > > justification in the events....> > >> > > Nothing is strange if we do not see it with strange eyes….> > >> > > Since 9L is the most important planet after LL, being the strongest> kona> > > and governing the prarabdh and bhagya, we must be sure about its> placement.> > >> > > Primary purpose of a soul is governed by the lord of prarabdh. i.e> 9L. How> > > one does that is seen by his placement and associations. Rashi chart> will> > > define the primary purpose and for fine tuning we move to navamsh> and> > > vargas.> > >> > > Mars, the 9L and 2L in 4H has given him the ability to raise both> manpower> > > and funds to build institutions and association of karmic nodes help> him> > > achieve that. Regarding the writing and painting abilities, mars is> the> > > dispositor of venus, Mer and sun in exchange involving 2H, 3H and> 4H. In> > > navamsha, mars is with venus in 3H in libra. This explains the fine> > > abilities in painting.> > >> > > But more than painting, Tagore is famous for his writing and> literary> > > skills. He got the Noble prize also for Literature. Mars in natural> 3H in> > > Gemini and 4H in natal chart would give him the kind of writings he> is> > > famous for. With ketu along with fineness, literary skills, and> language> > > skills.> > >> > > Mars in 4H forms a stronger rajyoga which should be taken for> defining the> > > purpose of his life and for fine-tuning that purpose the yoga gets> confirmed> > > and strengthened in navamsh when mars aspects 9H with venus.> Classics always> > > say that Rajyoga is association of trinal and Kendra houses and> lords. In 3H> > > there is no rajyoga, even if mars aspects own house. Mars in 4H also> forms> > > another rajyoga in parivartan with 4L and 7L mercury.> > >> > > Regarding the 6/8 relationship with 9H, we cannot say it will be> doomed> > > across board. There will obviously be some deficiency regarding 9H,> but it> > > also gives the depth of thinking, spirituality, research-mindedness.> His> > > father was a Brahmosamaj worker associated with religion and> spirituality.> > > In CHA, when mars goes to 3H, it is in 7H Taurus and venus is 7L and> 12L in> > > 6H from 9H.> > >> > > Mass appeal and public adulation is in the domain of 4H. Nodes> become> > > yogkaraks if associated with trinal lord in Kendra or trine. This is> well> > > known dictum.> > >> > > We cannot wish away any placement like that, unless and until we> find solid> > > grounds. I have uploaded the file in files section and please check> the> > > navamsh given by CPA in this case.> > >> > > I would've answered all the questions raised by you, but one-sided> approach> > > is useless ending up with naming and blaming.> > >> > > Regards> > > Neelam> > >> > >> >> > > > > > > Vande Mataram > Yahaan vahaan saara jahaan dekha liyaahe> Nehi kahi Tere jaisa koyi nahihe> Assi nahi sau din duniya ghumahe> Nehi kahi Tere jaisa koyi nahihe> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Dear Neelam ji & Chandra Hari ji, Your arguments are healthy and sound. Hence very good learning material. blessings, Renu , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hari ji, > > > I am saying this with due respect to your experience and knowledge and I > have not formed any opinion yet. My experience is very small as compared to > your life long study and just one small angle in chart cannot make me form > any opinion. > > It was a matter of debate only and may be taken as such.... > > Some more thoughts on that: > > 1. Tagore is the youngest kid - Mars in 3rd house, Karakao Bhavanasaya. > > 2. Tagore has Putrakaraka Guru in 5th leading to Putradukha, again > illustrating Karako Bhavanasaya > > Sthanhani Karo Jeeva and karko bhav nashaye cannot be applied generally but > only under certain conditions. > > Let us take 5H affairs to clarify: > > We see the fructification of events through Bhav-Bhavesh and Karak > primarily. If an event is seen through all three we may predict the event > with a certain level of confidence. Jupiter here is the karak for children > in Bhava of children. It is just like bhavesh as it is in exchange with > moon, the 5th lord. Jupiter is also exalted to give very auspicious results. > Jupiter thus assumes the role of all three bhav-bhavesh-karak for 5H > supported by moon in lagna. But it is also like putting all your eggs in one > basket. Any slightest affliction on this Jupiter results in loss for the > house. > > Here Jupiter is not directly under affliction, so the native gets many > children. No harm done by Jupiter as such. Two of the kids dying in a period > when mortality was very high in India is not such a big issue. Even very > slight affliction could've caused it. > > But 6H from Jupiter has Rahu and 5H is in papkatri so the periods connected > with mars, Saturn and Rahu are expected to harm children. In navamsha Jup is > in saturn's house and saturn in 12H in cancer the 5H of rashi. > > Hence the Karko Bhav Nashaye does not mean that karak is destroying the > house or sthan hani karo jeeva does not imply that Jupiter is causing harm > to the house. It is just that when all the portfolios are being carried by > one planet, he becomes more vulnerable to harmful aspects, but when under > benefic influence it is also capable of giving excellent results. > > Similarly, there are many cases where many younger brothers are born if mars > is not afflicted in 3H > > 3. Tagore has the exchange of 2nd and 3rd lords = Author, writer, painter, > musician, singer > > 4. May be Mars exchanging Venus and in 3rd had made him play music on > instruments also. > > This can also happen as Mars is in exchange with mercury and both mer and > venus are in Aries in 2H with sun and mars is in Gemini. In navamsh mars is > with venus in 3H in libra and mercury in 2H. he was more into literary > skills given by mercury with venus. Being a painter and musician was an add > on. An why do we forget the moon in pisces in lagna and LL jup in cancer in > house of creativity. > 5. Mars aspecting its own 9th house (overseas) and taking namsa in 7th (long > journeys) > > 9L in 4H also gives long overseas journeys. It is collaborated in navamsha > positions. In 4H, 9L also aspects 7H of journeys. Being in natural 3H also > adds and Gemini also gives journey's for literary pursuits. > > 6. Death in Rahu_Mars where Mars is a dire Marka being in exchange with 3rd > and 8th lord and owning 2nd. > > It is very difficult to assign death to any planet especially when it is > poornayu. Once all other events tally for one particular ayanamsha and > dasha, we can also agree to death giving period also. > > Regards > > Neelam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Dear Neelam-ji, I don't have any comment to offer on the ongoing astrological discussion. However, your comment "part of the reason for this was Kadambari Devi, who immediately assumed the role of surrogate maternal figure." ...........And then you wrote,, "Was Kadambri a mother-like figure in his life, a companion, friend, mate??" You are not serious here, right ? BTW, Rabindranath had many 'Romantic affairs'. From teen years to ripe old age. regards Chakraborty neelam gupta [neelamgupta07]Friday, May 09, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: Re: Re: Ayanamsa_Tagore Dear All,Some facts that might help us look into the planets' roles in Rabindranath's chart... Rabindranath was the fourteenth and youngest living child of his parents. Jyotirindranath was thirteen years his senior. Kadambari Devi was the child bride of Jyotirindranath Tagore. Hence Kadambri was same age as Tagore. Tagore's most authoritative biographer, Probhat Kumar Mukhopadhyay, writes: "He had been her playmate and companion ever since her marriage." On December 9th of 1883 at the age of 22 Tagore himself was married to a girl of 11, whom he renamed Mrinalini. Tagore's marriage at the end of 1883 had been "sudden and unexpected." Four months after his wedding, Kadambari Devi committed suicide. Why she took her own life, if known, has never been made public. Tagore wrote in 1917"…. I suffered a devastating sorrow…. a very close relative of mine committed suicide, and she had been my life's total support, right from childhood onward. And so with her unexpected death it was as if the earth itself receded from beneath my feet, as though the skies above me all went dark. My universe turned empty, my zest for life departed." In the reminiscences entitled Jiban-smriti (1911-12), Tagore wrote in a similar vein. His mother's death, occurred when he was quite young, and did not affect him strongly, part of the reason for this was Kadambari Devi, who immediately assumed the role of surrogate maternal figure. It is her passing that traumatized him or, as he put it, "It was my acquaintance with death at the age of 24 that left a permanent impression on me." Was Kadambri a mother-like figure in his life, a companion, friend, mate?? Many of his biographical works talk about this – Chitrangada, and later translation by Ray called Charulata. And his autobiographical Nastanir, etc. Mrinalini gave him five children and died a premature death in 1902. What about the 9L (brother's wife in 4H of mother affecting his life so much. And Ketu adding to mystery?? Motherly role-play by brother's wife. There is nothing in a chart that does not have a meaning.... Regards Neelam This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Dear Neelamji, I am giving my comments below in this colour. I have quoted you in black whereever necessary. Nothing is to hurt you. May be my expression is a bit harsh owing to 2nd lordship of Mars. Meena Lagna and Mars in Gemini. Please see whether there is any merit in what I have to say. I have no idea as to what astrology is getting taught in Delhi and what kind of traditional wisdom is getting imparted. If we can keep an open mind, I think we may stand to gain. We cannot teach anyone anything unless there happens the grace of Chandika. If there is some truth in my words, it is just the reflection of Her grace and it is my prayer to Her that if I am a frog fallen in a well of my own biased thinking, then I may please be delivered out at the earliest. I am saying this with due respect to your experience and knowledge and I have not formed any opinion yet. My experience is very small as compared to your life long study and just one small angle in chart cannot make me form any opinion. It was a matter of debate only and may be taken as such.... Some more thoughts on that: 1. Tagore is the youngest kid - Mars in 3rd house, Karakao Bhavanasaya. 2. Tagore has Putrakaraka Guru in 5th leading to Putradukha, again illustrating Karako Bhavanasaya Sthanhani Karo Jeeva and karko bhav nashaye cannot be applied generally but only under certain conditions. Let us take 5H affairs to clarify: We see the fructification of events through Bhav-Bhavesh and Karak primarily. If an event is seen through all three we may predict the event with a certain level of confidence. Jupiter here is the karak for children in Bhava of children. It is just like bhavesh as it is in exchange with moon, the 5th lord. Jupiter is also exalted to give very auspicious results. Jupiter thus assumes the role of all three bhav-bhavesh-karak for 5H supported by moon in lagna. But it is also like putting all your eggs in one basket. Any slightest affliction on this Jupiter results in loss for the house. Here Jupiter is not directly under affliction, so the native gets many children. No harm done by Jupiter as such. Two of the kids dying in a period when mortality was very high in India is not such a big issue. Even very slight affliction could've caused it. But 6H from Jupiter has Rahu and 5H is in papkatri so the periods connected with mars, Saturn and Rahu are expected to harm children. In navamsha Jup is in saturn's house and saturn in 12H in cancer the 5H of rashi. Hence the Karko Bhav Nashaye does not mean that karak is destroying the house or sthan hani karo jeeva does not imply that Jupiter is causing harm to the house. It is just that when all the portfolios are being carried by one planet, he becomes more vulnerable to harmful aspects, but when under benefic influence it is also capable of giving excellent results. Similarly, there are many cases where many younger brothers are born if mars is not afflicted in 3H Here the discussion is the chart of Tagore and the investigation is which configuration finds better reflection in astrological wisdom. We are not having a general discussion of astrological principles or we are not discussing the exceptions to certain rules. I am conversant with the ifs and buts that are discussed above and such arguments can be drawn on every point written about Chitrapaksha. 1. Tagore is the youngest kid - Mars in 3rd house, Karakao Bhavanasaya. 2. Tagore has Putrakaraka Guru in 5th leading to Putradukha, again illustrating Karako Bhavanasaya We have here the two facets of a popular principle – Karako bhavanasaya. To my knowledge the truth of this principle is widely recognized irrespective of the truth of the prelude sthanahanikaroti jeeva. At least in the tradition I know, Jiva is not credited with any such general negative attribute that it destroys its position. Guru in 5th is traditionally accepted as detrimental to kids and also Guru in the 11th is taken to signify eldest kid of the family. Now the merits of the traditional wisdom, emphasis that tradition gives to certain principles cannot be illustrated on the pages of a book. It comes by experience and adherence/association to people who are adepts on the subject. We can go into a commonsense discussion at length on any astrological principle to establish that it cannot be correct in a case. In retrofitting arguments to a chart to explain the chart, we give ourselves to bias – it is a psychological process and everyone is prone to it. So what we should do is we must ask ourselves, given the chart, how we will approach it for giving an assessment. When we look at Tagore's chart, CPA and CHA, 1. What will inspire us to say that the native may be youngest kid of the parents? Mars in 3rd house or the Mars in 4th? When we see Mars in the 3rd house in a chart, do we go into silence by subscribing to such thoughts as "Similarly, there are many cases where many younger brothers are born if mars is not afflicted in 3H". If you are to deal with the exception principle while looking at a chart, what one will be able to predict? Now see the conclusion part of the related argument: Hence the Karko Bhav Nashaye does not mean that karak is destroying the house or sthan hani karo jeeva does not imply that Jupiter is causing harm to the house. It is just that when all the portfolios are being carried by one planet, he becomes more vulnerable to harmful aspects, but when under benefic influence it is also capable of giving excellent results. Karako bhava nasaya means Karaka destroys the Bhava. It has no appendix as is being stretched out in the para above. Please go into charts where Mars is placed in 3rd house and then comment on that. Don't make theoretical assessment. English can be written on anything to prove a bias or to undermine a well known principle. In Moon Hoax people have challenged the truth of NASA's Appollo Mission to Moon. Some guys have framed arguments like – no stars could be seen in the photographs taken, moon has no atmosphere but the flag is seen to weave in the air and so on. People who are ignorant of the hollowness of these negative arguments will think that definitely there is something fishy behind NASA mission to Moon. 2. In the case of Tagore Guru may strike one's attention not only because he is in 5th as Putrakaraka but he is involved in an exchange and sandwiched between malefics. Further Sani is in 6th aspected by Mars. 2nd house to any house have high importance in deciding the growth of that house. 2nd house signifies the growth of a house and 12th the decay of house. Vrddhi and Kshaya. In this case is Kshaya is supported by Ketu and Vrddhi is inhibited by Sani and Mars. Both the 5th house and Karaka are afflicted by Sani under the aspect of Mars. 3. Tagore has the exchange of 2nd and 3rd lords = Author, writer, painter, musician, singer 4. May be Mars exchanging Venus and in 3rd had made him play music on instruments also. This can also happen as Mars is in exchange with mercury and both mer and venus are in Aries in 2H with sun and mars is in Gemini. We can write this can also happen argument for anything of any chart. The question is when a chart is given which combination shall inspire to draw a conclusion like painter, writer, musician, singer etc. To my mind it is 2nd and 3rd house. To see a man passionate, poetic, romantic, I will give emphasis for Mars_Venus exchange which has well known connotations to Tagore's life. We cannot take Rabindra sangeet was an add on to his personality. His popular image as a literary genius and his actual personality are too different things. We must know his personality. Music never comes to a being as an add on. Music is core to one's sensitivity and it is such sensitiveness that leads man into literature – i.e. expression of his sensitiveness. Melody was more basic to him than the linguistic expressions. Linguistic expression was a manifestation of his Rajayoga. We need not attach lesser importance to music in his life if we see the Mars_Venus exchange as 2nd and 3rd lord. In navamsh mars is with venus in 3H in libra and mercury in 2H. he was more into literary skills given by mercury with venus. Being a painter and musician was an add on. An why do we forget the moon in pisces in lagna and LL jup in cancer in house of creativity. See the CHA ® Mars exchanging with Venus has amsa in Mercury's house in 7th of long journeys. Mars is 2nd lord and 9th lord, Vidya of 2nd house and spiritual knowledge of 9th house clubbed with the romantic spirit of Venus. When we contrast CHA and CPA charts, the one-sided vision of Mars-Merc and 2-4 houses has only lesser merit compared to Mars-Venus 1-3 impact. Coupled with the fact that Tagore was the youngest kid, reinforcement is more for the CHA – this is of course my feeling and others may feel opposite also – I don't know. 5. Mars aspecting its own 9th house (overseas) and taking namsa in 7th (long journeys) 9L in 4H also gives long overseas journeys. It is collaborated in navamsha positions. In 4H, 9L also aspects 7H of journeys. Being in natural 3H also adds and Gemini also gives journey's for literary pursuits. The question is when we contrast Mars in 3rd aspecting 9th and amsa in 7th is better for overseas journeys, name and fame or is it Mars in 4th taking amsa in 8th? What is collaborated in navamsa? When in Rasi the 9th lord aspect to 9th house is not accepted by the author, why to go to navamsa and say that in navamsa the 9th lord Mars is in 3rd house and aspecting the 9th? In 4H, 9L also aspects 7H of journeys – This argument I could not grasp. What is this argument – I am reading this kind of argument first time. Being in natural 3H also adds and Gemini also gives journey's for literary pursuits. Is this a better argument than Mars 9th lord aspecting 9th house and taking navamsa in 7th house? What relevance is therefore natural 3H here. We can make kicchadi in any discussion on any chart if we bring in the Kalapurusha chart and start making logics. We must guard against these kind of pitfalls. We must be disciplined in our thinking as to while looking at a chart to what extend we can go beyond the chart. If the natural 3rd house has signification to journey and literary pursuit, then every born creature must experience the same. Or say at least all Pisces born people having Mars in Gemini? When the chart itself is very clear, why to take on Kalapurusha to explain the foreign journey of a human being? Is this interpretation of natural house correct? I am leaving it to others to answer. Hora ascribes Kalapurusha the limbs as we have to fix the avayava vibhaga. And we know that all human being have the same limb structure and so in limb structure every human being is a replica of Kalapurusha. In other words, Rishis modelled Kalapurush as a replica of the human being. This is only in respect of the common factors that everyone possess. In respect of human talents, genius, abilities etc Kalapurusha has nothing to do with human beings as human beings differ in these according to Karma bhukti. Gemini may represent the limb as indicated by 3rd house of Kalapurusha, it does not mean that Gemini shall contribute to the genius of an individual. Limb is common to all. Genius is not like that. Even if Gemini was to reflect his literary skill, whether it will be impaired or enhanced by a masculine Yoga of Mars_Mercury exchange? Lord of Gemini in a disastrous exchange with the dire malefic 6th and 11th lord Mars, could have impaired or enhanced the literary abilities? In Tagore we see the feminine spirit divine – yin – and not a masculine literary spirit. Mars-Mercury exchange always lead to mathematical abilities, study of formulas, logic and the like where the intuitive side is not involved. 4th house as I have already pointed out, makes the sense that if we walk around the earth is flat. 6. Death in Rahu_Mars where Mars is a dire Marka being in exchange with 3rd and 8th lord and owning 2nd. It is very difficult to assign death to any planet especially when it is poornayu. Once all other events tally for one particular ayanamsha and dasha, we can also agree to death giving period also. I have discussed all events whose date could be known from biography sources. Please tell me if anywhere the discussion is parochial – I mean to support my bias. Don't conclude that chart itself supports only Chitrapaksha and therefore the event based discussion is not required. Regards Neelam , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hari ji,> > > I am saying this with due respect to your experience and knowledge and I> have not formed any opinion yet. My experience is very small as compared to> your life long study and just one small angle in chart cannot make me form> any opinion.> > It was a matter of debate only and may be taken as such....> > Some more thoughts on that:> > 1. Tagore is the youngest kid - Mars in 3rd house, Karakao Bhavanasaya.> > 2. Tagore has Putrakaraka Guru in 5th leading to Putradukha, again> illustrating Karako Bhavanasaya> > Sthanhani Karo Jeeva and karko bhav nashaye cannot be applied generally but> only under certain conditions.> > Let us take 5H affairs to clarify:> > We see the fructification of events through Bhav-Bhavesh and Karak> primarily. If an event is seen through all three we may predict the event> with a certain level of confidence. Jupiter here is the karak for children> in Bhava of children. It is just like bhavesh as it is in exchange with> moon, the 5th lord. Jupiter is also exalted to give very auspicious results.> Jupiter thus assumes the role of all three bhav-bhavesh-karak for 5H> supported by moon in lagna. But it is also like putting all your eggs in one> basket. Any slightest affliction on this Jupiter results in loss for the> house.> > Here Jupiter is not directly under affliction, so the native gets many> children. No harm done by Jupiter as such. Two of the kids dying in a period> when mortality was very high in India is not such a big issue. Even very> slight affliction could've caused it.> > But 6H from Jupiter has Rahu and 5H is in papkatri so the periods connected> with mars, Saturn and Rahu are expected to harm children. In navamsha Jup is> in saturn's house and saturn in 12H in cancer the 5H of rashi.> > Hence the Karko Bhav Nashaye does not mean that karak is destroying the> house or sthan hani karo jeeva does not imply that Jupiter is causing harm> to the house. It is just that when all the portfolios are being carried by> one planet, he becomes more vulnerable to harmful aspects, but when under> benefic influence it is also capable of giving excellent results.> > Similarly, there are many cases where many younger brothers are born if mars> is not afflicted in 3H> > 3. Tagore has the exchange of 2nd and 3rd lords = Author, writer, painter,> musician, singer> > 4. May be Mars exchanging Venus and in 3rd had made him play music on> instruments also.> > This can also happen as Mars is in exchange with mercury and both mer and> venus are in Aries in 2H with sun and mars is in Gemini. In navamsh mars is> with venus in 3H in libra and mercury in 2H. he was more into literary> skills given by mercury with venus. Being a painter and musician was an add> on. An why do we forget the moon in pisces in lagna and LL jup in cancer in> house of creativity.> 5. Mars aspecting its own 9th house (overseas) and taking namsa in 7th (long> journeys)> > 9L in 4H also gives long overseas journeys. It is collaborated in navamsha> positions. In 4H, 9L also aspects 7H of journeys. Being in natural 3H also> adds and Gemini also gives journey's for literary pursuits.> > 6. Death in Rahu_Mars where Mars is a dire Marka being in exchange with 3rd> and 8th lord and owning 2nd.> > It is very difficult to assign death to any planet especially when it is> poornayu. Once all other events tally for one particular ayanamsha and> dasha, we can also agree to death giving period also.> > Regards> > Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Dear Chandra Hari ji,Many thanks for your painstaking efforts to put things in proper perspective. I really appreciate your good intentions. I am certainly trying to weigh the pros and cons with my limited knowledge. I'll go through your points and get back soon. I am sure true intentions will surely get us closer to the truth. Its only your Union Leader attitude that scares everyone. Shouting from rooftops may make everyone silent, but does not mean they have accepted what you're saying, whereas a calm and composed dialogue with slow and steady learning will surely make everyone see your point if it is valid. Even if one is biased initially, why won't they accept something which is giving results? I am sure all of us can see the sincerity and integrity in your approach ....but if you are a little less terrorist like!RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Dear Neelamji, You can have an example as to what happens when a Meena Lagna native has Mars in the 4th. It gives a militant tinge to the personality (may be for all Lagna, kendra_Mars). Militancy is not altogether bad. Militants and trade union leaders are required to protect establishments. Anything precious can be guarded only by honest and sincere militants. And many Institutions in India suffer because of the lack of good trade union leaders. I always seek Bhavani's blessings to make me a real soldier to guard Her wisdom. In this group too I am happy to be a militant of course without hurting any innocent people and sincere students. I have no remorse in hurting those make astrology a charlatan business and I am sure that you too share a similar mindset. I read your answer to the blind chart vis-a-vis the great introduction. I am sorry that I missed the profession in precise terms - I had spoken of a Paediatrician who takes care of kids and does curation. But here the objects turned out to be lifeless. But I am happy that my conviction was strong and repeated my assessment without waevering. I don't know whether the process can be called an art today? It must be a great science now to keep the objects in good shape and conditionm, just as a doctor attends to her patients. Museum is a kind of hospiatl for the objects. There are many misses like having no kid, multiple alliances etc. I will be waiting for some dates of her life like, when she walked out of college, research period, joining a job, dates of the 2 marriages and period of separations, period of miscarriages if any etc. It was nice reading your literary introduction. chandra hari , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hari ji,> > Many thanks for your painstaking efforts to put things in proper> perspective. I really appreciate your good intentions. I am certainly trying> to weigh the pros and cons with my limited knowledge. I'll go through your> points and get back soon. I am sure true intentions will surely get us> closer to the truth.> > Its only your Union Leader attitude that scares everyone. Shouting from> rooftops may make everyone silent, but does not mean they have accepted what> you're saying, whereas a calm and composed dialogue with slow and steady> learning will surely make everyone see your point if it is valid. Even if> one is biased initially, why won't they accept something which is giving> results?> > I am sure all of us can see the sincerity and integrity in your approach> ....but if you are a little less terrorist like!> > Regards> > Neelam> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 dear neelamji, what a beautiful mercury in virgo u have....With a slight difference in ayanamsha it could even be in lagna........??? , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hari ji, > > Many thanks for your painstaking efforts to put things in proper > perspective. I really appreciate your good intentions. I am certainly trying > to weigh the pros and cons with my limited knowledge. I'll go through your > points and get back soon. I am sure true intentions will surely get us > closer to the truth. > > Its only your Union Leader attitude that scares everyone. Shouting from > rooftops may make everyone silent, but does not mean they have accepted what > you're saying, whereas a calm and composed dialogue with slow and steady > learning will surely make everyone see your point if it is valid. Even if > one is biased initially, why won't they accept something which is giving > results? > > I am sure all of us can see the sincerity and integrity in your approach > ....but if you are a little less terrorist like! > > Regards > > Neelam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2008 Report Share Posted May 10, 2008 Dear All, Here I am submitting the comparative results for all the participants in the exercise. Later I will take each case and send my comments for all the readings, one by one. I also wish to state that I have compiled these results to the best of my ability without any biasness. Still if you find any error in judging or presentation, please feel free to correct me. Pradeepji was simply outstanding in judging correctly almost all the spheres of native's life. 7 correct fields, 3 close and only 2 missed areas. And he attempted all areas. Congratulations Pradeepji for the wonderful observations. He was quite crisp and to-the point. He judged not only looks and nature, but also education, marriage, multiple affairs, etc quite closely. Madhu ji was also superb in judging 5 fields correctly, and in 4 areas he is close. He comes closest in judging the profession. I also appreciate Madhu ji's effort in giving us some peculiarities in the chart, many of which are quite true. Sunil ji was also fantastic with 3 correct hits and close in almost all the areas. He is the one who clearly said about two marriages. He also gave good points about personality etc. Sreenadh ji was excellent in giving correct readings in 3 fields and almost there in 6 others. He was very close about siblings and nature and personality. Chandra Hari ji would need a special mention as he had tried to be precise with his comments and readings (not indulging in mumbo-jumbo). Like Madhu ji, he has also tried to touch upon some specificities in the chart of which many are true. I shall be giving my comments on those. And the best reading from Chandra Hari ji is his observation on a still birth in 1989. He misses the period by a few months, but the observation is incredible. He would tell us how he saw this. Though his other observations about children are not true. Gaurav, Krishna ji, Souvik ji also did very well as they were correct in a couple of areas and close in many others. They also attempted almost all fields. Nameisego ji was correct about her being a non-medico doctor, but could not judge the line of work. He also was close in saying that she is a writer. Sreeram ji had been travelling and so we could get only a few points from him. He is correct about two and close about another two. I wish he's taken up a complete reading for the benefit of the group. Same for Vinita ji, she refrained from commenting, though she wasn't going wrong. And Renu ji who for some reason didn't take a whole-hearted attempt.Special appreciation for Bob (caz2r92) who was analytical in approach but lacked confidence to make a confirmed statement. But his analysis for the fields he took up was good. Chanduchillji, Anirudh, Aditya, Dushyant, Chakravarti ji all have been correct in getting to the looks and personality. I'm sure for the rest they will see where they went wrong. I thank all of you for lively interaction keen participation. Given below is a comparative chart to show how everyone has fared. The columns are about the performance of participants with rows giving the areas defined. (1-19) Green – CorrectYellow – somewhat correct Red – missedGrey – not attempted 1. Aditya (AD)2. Anirudh (AN)3. Bob (BO)4. Chakravarty (CK)5. Chandra Hari (CH)6. Chandu2Chill (CC)7. Dushyant (DU)8. (GA) 9. K. Gopu (KG)10. Krishna Seetharama (KS)11. Madhu Nair (MN)12. nameisego (NA)13. Renu (RE)14. Souvik Dutta (SD)15. Sreenadh (SR)16. Sreeram Srinivas (SS) 17. Sunil Nair (SN)18. Vijaydas Pradeep (VP)19. Vinita (VI) AD AN BO CK CH CC DU GA KG KS MN NA RE SD SR SS SN VP VI 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1 Looks 2 Nature 3 Family 4 Siblings 5 Education 6 Marriage 7 Children 8 Profession 9 Assets 10 Fin. Status 11 Soc. status 12 Other pecul. Since it is very difficult to get absolutely to-the-point readings, I have put the close-enough readings in green. Those who are somewhere near the truth, are in yellow. Red is only when nothing is close to reality.This table shows that out of the 12 areas of native's life, each participant has given how many correct readings, how many close readings and how many they've totally missed. I have also given as to how many they have not attempted at all. Name abbr Correct Readings Somewhat close Totally missed in Not Attempted Vijaydas Pradeep VP 7 3 2 0 Madhu Nair MN 5 4 2 1 Sunil Nair SN 3 7 1 1 Sreenadh SR 3 6 2 2 Sreeram Srinivas SS 2 2 1 7 GA 2 4 6 0 Krishna Seetharama KS 2 3 4 3 Souvik Dutta SD 2 4 5 1 Chandra Hari CH 2 3 3 4 nameisego NA 1 3 6 2 Vinita VI 1 1 0 10 Chandu2Chill CC 2 1 5 4 Aditya AD 1 2 8 1 Bob BO 0 3 1 8 Renu RE 0 2 2 8 K. Gopu KG 0 2 3 7 Anirudh AN 0 1 7 4 Chakravarty CK 0 1 9 2 Dushyant DU 0 1 5 6 Now I'll start posting my comments on individual readings. Hope everyone enjoyed the exercise. Thanks and RegardsNeelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji,What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.Regards,Krishnasreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: Dear Members, I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics.... Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India. 1) Marriage 9 December 1883 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed. 10) Tagore had total 5 children 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards. 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear krishna . I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore , so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct . let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more .Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can only use that . neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we may reject many things after testing . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote:>> Dear Sreeram ji,> > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.> > Regards,> Krishna> > sreeram srinivas sreeram64 wrote: > Dear Members,> I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics....> Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India.> 1) Marriage 9 December 1883> 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata> 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan> 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902> 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903> 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907> 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913> 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913> 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed.> 10) Tagore had total 5 children> 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878> 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree> 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries> 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917> 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards.> 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877.> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dear Sunil,I am not sure which source you are talking about. The data I have got is from 'Astrotheme' web site. I have not verified the events with either of the birth times. Before starting to take look at the chart, I opened the chart in my database and found that the time was different and hence my question to Sreeram ji. It was an obvious question and there is nothing like a favorite time for me for an unstudied chart.However, if you say that the events don't change much with either of the times, I am not going to question you :-)Regards,Krishna sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: Hare rama krishna dear krishna . I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore , so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct . let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more .Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can only use that . neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we may reject many things after testing . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote:>> Dear Sreeram ji,> > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.> > Regards,> Krishna> > sreeram srinivas sreeram64 wrote: > Dear Members,> I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics....> Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India.> 1) Marriage 9 December 1883> 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata> 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan> 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902> 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903> 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907> 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913> 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913> 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed.> 10) Tagore had total 5 children> 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878> 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree> 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries> 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917> 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards.> 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877.> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear krishna u r yet to understand what i said ,in initial yrs i was paying for books published by so called big astrologers and studying celibrity charts .Now net has come and replaced it . so over years i know who is right and who wrong and after simpling making a bluff ,so even i used the word neti neti means its very famous in our culture (as acharyas even asking their students to do it ,budha asked his monks ) ,test and reject ,i also ask u same i never say who is right or who is wrong . A person shud be truthful only to subjuct .In net i also found various datas but i never touch it .i use main karakas for assessing only in case of some emergency .not the chart as the day may be correct ,even moon changes in few days time in some charts. hope u got it regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote:>> Dear Sunil,> > I am not sure which source you are talking about. The data I have got is from 'Astrotheme' web site. > > I have not verified the events with either of the birth times. Before starting to take look at the chart, I opened the chart in my database and found that the time was different and hence my question to Sreeram ji. It was an obvious question and there is nothing like a favorite time for me for an unstudied chart.> > However, if you say that the events don't change much with either of the times, I am not going to question you :-)> > Regards,> Krishna> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > Hare rama krishna> dear krishna .> I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore ,> so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct .> let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more .Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can only use that .> > neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we may reject many things after testing .> > regrds sunil nair > om shreem mahalaxmai namah > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreeram ji,> > > > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.> > > > Regards,> > Krishna> > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@ wrote: > > Dear Members,> > I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics....> > Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India.> > 1) Marriage 9 December 1883> > 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata> > 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan> > 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902> > 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903> > 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907> > 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913> > 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913> > 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed.> > 10) Tagore had total 5 children> > 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878> > 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree> > 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries> > 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917> > 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards.> > 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> >> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 sorry in continuation to reply to krishna i said event s wont change ( means what ever birth time u use the happened events will be there )and u can use both timing and test it i never say events wont change with both timings . hope now i am more clear sunil nair , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > > > Hare rama krishna> > dear krishna> > > > u r yet to understand what i said ,in initial yrs i was paying for> books published by so called big astrologers and studying celibrity> charts .Now net has come and replaced it .> > > > so over years i know who is right and who wrong and after simpling> making a bluff ,so even i used the word neti neti means its very famous> in our culture (as acharyas even asking their students to do it ,budha> asked his monks ) ,test and reject ,i also ask u same> > i never say who is right or who is wrong .> > A person shud be truthful only to subjuct .In net i also found various> datas but i never touch it .i use main karakas for assessing only in> case of some emergency .not the chart as the day may be correct ,even> moon changes in few days time in some charts.> > > > hope u got it> > > > regrds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah> > > , Krishnamurthy> Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sunil,> >> > I am not sure which source you are talking about. The data I have got> is from 'Astrotheme' web site.> >> > I have not verified the events with either of the birth times. Before> starting to take look at the chart, I opened the chart in my database> and found that the time was different and hence my question to Sreeram> ji. It was an obvious question and there is nothing like a favorite time> for me for an unstudied chart.> >> > However, if you say that the events don't change much with either of> the times, I am not going to question you :-)> >> > Regards,> > Krishna> >> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > Hare rama krishna> > dear krishna .> > I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore ,> > so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will> not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct .> > let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more> .Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can> only use that .> >> > neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we> may reject many things after testing .> >> > regrds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah> >> > , Krishnamurthy> Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreeram ji,> > >> > > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources> giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Krishna> > >> > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@ wrote:> > > Dear Members,> > > I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore.....> "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his> life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict> the events and justify it with logics....> > > Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51> Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta,> earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India.> > > 1) Marriage 9 December 1883> > > 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata> > > 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan> > > 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902> > > 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903> > > 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907> > > 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913> > > 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913> > > 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of> illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then> again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed.> > > 10) Tagore had total 5 children> > > 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878> > > 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree> > > 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries> > > 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917> > > 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921> onwards.> > > 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e.> 1861+16 = 1877.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile.> Try it now.> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try> it now.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dear Sunil,I just asked a question that came naturally to me. I just wanted to know the source of the data from Sreeram ji. I hope there was nothing wrong in asking such a question. I was not at all contesting what he gave. I wanted more info. That is all. I never doubted your ability or experience. In fact, I have high regard for it. I am not able to understand why you are reacting the way you are reacting.Regards,Krishnasunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: Hare rama krishna dear krishna u r yet to understand what i said ,in initial yrs i was paying for books published by so called big astrologers and studying celibrity charts .Now net has come and replaced it . so over years i know who is right and who wrong and after simpling making a bluff ,so even i used the word neti neti means its very famous in our culture (as acharyas even asking their students to do it ,budha asked his monks ) ,test and reject ,i also ask u same i never say who is right or who is wrong . A person shud be truthful only to subjuct .In net i also found various datas but i never touch it .i use main karakas for assessing only in case of some emergency .not the chart as the day may be correct ,even moon changes in few days time in some charts. hope u got it regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah --- In , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote:>> Dear Sunil,> > I am not sure which source you are talking about. The data I have got is from 'Astrotheme' web site. > > I have not verified the events with either of the birth times. Before starting to take look at the chart, I opened the chart in my database and found that the time was different and hence my question to Sreeram ji. It was an obvious question and there is nothing like a favorite time for me for an unstudied chart.> > However, if you say that the events don't change much with either of the times, I am not going to question you :-)> > Regards,> Krishna> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > Hare rama krishna> dear krishna .> I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore ,> so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct .> let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more .Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can only use that .> > neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we may reject many things after testing .> > regrds sunil nair > om shreem mahalaxmai namah > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreeram ji,> > > > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know.> > > > Regards,> > Krishna> > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@ wrote: > > Dear Members,> > I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... "only literary pride of India" !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics....> > Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India.> > 1) Marriage 9 December 1883> > 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata> > 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan> > 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902> > 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903> > 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907> > 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913> > 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913> > 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed.> > 10) Tagore had total 5 children> > 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878> > 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then "Calcutta" in 1880 without degree> > 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries> > 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917> > 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards.> > 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> >> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dear friends, The birth time under discussion is the one that BV Raman gave in his book Notable Horoscopes. BVR has given the reference for the data where there had been some confusion. chandra hari , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Sunil, > > I am not sure which source you are talking about. The data I have got is from 'Astrotheme' web site. > > I have not verified the events with either of the birth times. Before starting to take look at the chart, I opened the chart in my database and found that the time was different and hence my question to Sreeram ji. It was an obvious question and there is nothing like a favorite time for me for an unstudied chart. > > However, if you say that the events don't change much with either of the times, I am not going to question you :-) > > Regards, > Krishna > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > Hare rama krishna > dear krishna . > I know which source u got the Birth time of tagore , > so u can try to use it with those details and the events any way will not chage ,so it will be an eye opener for us ,which source is correct . > let us see events with both birth time and see which one reflect more ..Or if the birth time quoted by u ,is the most favrite one ,then u can only use that . > > neti neti ( not this,not this ) is the way to find the truth .so we may reject many things after testing . > > regrds sunil nair > om shreem mahalaxmai namah > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sreeram ji, > > > > What is your source for the birth time? I cam across other sources giving 4:02 am LMT as the birth time. Please do let me know. > > > > Regards, > > Krishna > > > > sreeram srinivas sreeram64@ wrote: > > Dear Members, > > I am posting here the birth details of Mr. Rabindranath Tagore..... " only literary pride of India " !!?? with list of events in his life....would request members to use ayanamsa of their choice to predict the events and justify it with logics.... > > Rabindranath Tagore, 07-May-1861, 02:27 Indian Standard Time, 02:51 Local Mean Time, Place co-ordinates : 22N40, 88E30, now called Kolkatta, earlier it was Calcutta, State of West Bengal, India. > > 1) Marriage 9 December 1883 > > 2) First Daughter 1886 – His daughter Madhuri Lata > > 3) Birth of Shantiniketan 22-Dec-1901, Shantiniketan > > 4) Death of Death of Wife – Mrinalini Devi on 23.11.1902 > > 5) Death of daughter Renuka Sept. 1903 > > 6) Death of Younger Son in Nov. 1907 > > 7) Nobel Prize in Sept. 1913 > > 8) Doctorate in Nov. 1913 > > 9) Death on 7-Aug-1941. Tagore's last 4 yrs of his life were of illness & chronic pain. Lost Conscious in 1937 for a long period....then again in 1940 to which he finally succumbed. > > 10) Tagore had total 5 children > > 11) Joined a Public School in Brighton, England in Year 1878 > > 12) Returned to now Kolkatta then " Calcutta " in 1880 without degree > > 13) Between 1878-1932 he visited 30 countries > > 14) In Japan between 03-May-1916 till April-1917 > > 15) Drawing & Painting activity in his 60th year i.e. 1861+60 = 1921 onwards. > > 16) Theatre participation & experience started in his 16th Year i.e. 1861+16 = 1877. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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