Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Dear Neelam, In my reply , to BC posted by you , I have used the time tested Lahiri's ayanamsa and the VMD based on 365.25 year length Best M Nair , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear All,> > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji and Chandra> Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of...> > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options prescribed for> making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also includes a> list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always perplexed,> first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many options> for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great name in> astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha!> > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to make. Then> how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will most> vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that there are> gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we should keep> checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can see> both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own conclusions.> > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the native. We> cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with this.> I would request all those who have participated to give the ayanamsha> they've used for analysis. When collating the results for correctness and> precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha used also.> > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one event of her> life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly correct> parameters.> > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal promise, we can> ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one pratyantar> only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views about such> blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an open> policy....> > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit:> 1) ayanamsha used> 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360)> > Regards> > Neelam> > > > > > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw:> > > Dear Chandra Hari ji,> >> > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true cause*. I> > get your message.> >> > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books> > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his research was> > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for> > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them that> > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in this era> > of evil and of immorality?> >> > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify the> > past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote> > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I feel> > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's> > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test to find> > out which ayanamsa is correct.> >> > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the chart of> > a dead person"> >> > Ancient precepts reveal some sense.> >> > "Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and> > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong> > analysis"> >> > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have a> > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons life.> > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days and days> > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an individual???> > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is what> > we miss here.> >> > blessings> >> > Renu> >> >> > , "chandra_hari18"> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Renuji,> > >> > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand its> > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. Mostly> > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because he> > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th cent> > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have become> > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific training> > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. Are> > > they to be taken as idols?> > >> > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, Munjala,> > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable> > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking studies> > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so we> > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some hi-fi> > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham?> > >> > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see some> > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete without> > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the sex of> > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it> > > without the aid of Swara.> > >> > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a tantric> > > precept. But how it can be proved by research?> > >> > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in Jyotisha> > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer should> > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way for> > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational basis> > > of Jyotisha?> > >> > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies in> > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and pseudospiritual> > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological studies.> > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the> > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing it> > > with a live Jyotisham.> > >> > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time,> > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath and> > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in hand to> > > make a living Jyotisham.> > >> > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be> > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for> > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not claim of> > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice and> > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as to what> > > we missed in making such wrong analysis.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Dear Neelam, As requested data used! 1. Lahiri Ayanamsha 2. VMD 365.25 year length I hope this helps. I look forward to you revealing the chart details and then trying to time events. Best Wishes...Bob , " Balagurusurya " <balagurusurya wrote: > > > Dear Neelam, > > In my reply , to BC posted by you , I have used the time tested Lahiri's > ayanamsa and the VMD based on 365.25 year length > > Best > > M Nair > > > > > , " neelam gupta " > <neelamgupta07@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > We are having here some very intense discussions between Renu ji and > Chandra > > Hari ji. I also feel that there is a point worth taking note of... > > > > We are all aware that there are n-number of ayanamsha options > prescribed for > > making and reading a birth chart. Every software programme also > includes a > > list of ayanamshas for our choice. We as learners are always > perplexed, > > first by the enormity of the subject itself and then by so many > options > > for....ayanamshas....dashas etc. Raman himself was such a great name > in > > astrology with an entirely different ayanamsha! > > > > We all also know that postmortem justifications are very easy to make. > Then > > how do we ascertain what is right. Every school of thought will most > > vociferously defend its own system. But somewhere we all know that > there are > > gaps and loose ends in our understanding. I also feel that we should > keep > > checking the charts through different ayanamshas, at least now we can > see > > both Lahiri's and Chandra Hari's and try to arrive at our own > conclusions. > > > > We are having this blind chart exercise where no one knows the native. > We > > cannot call it a postmortem study. Let us begin our probe with this. > > I would request all those who have participated to give the ayanamsha > > they've used for analysis. When collating the results for correctness > and > > precision, we can get an idea about the correctness of ayanamsha used > also. > > > > Anyone who's able to put his finger precisely on more than one event > of her > > life within one pratyantar, may be considered as using fairly correct > > parameters. > > > > Later on, once we know the events, and thus agree on natal promise, we > can > > ask everyone to delineate the timing of that event within one > pratyantar > > only. I can withhold the dates till that time. Unbiased views about > such > > blind charts may lead to much better understanding if we adopt an open > > policy.... > > > > I shall appreciate if all the participants also submit: > > 1) ayanamsha used > > 2) year length for vimshottri dasha (365.25 or 360) > > > > Regards > > > > Neelam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008/5/4 renunw renunw@: > > > > > Dear Chandra Hari ji, > > > > > > You write with so much concern and deep feeling for a *true cause*. > I > > > get your message. > > > > > > What I cannot understand is why and how K. N. Rao ji and his books > > > became popular [i presume so...if I am not misinformed] if his > research was > > > baseless?? Why do most of the astrologers go for Lahiri and not for > > > Chandra Hari ayanamsa...may be in spite of knowing deep inside them > that > > > Chandra Hari ayanams is more accurate??? Are good people misled in > this era > > > of evil and of immorality? > > > > > > In a postmortem, I feel that any ayanamsa should be able to clarify > the > > > past events because one way or the other one can find even a remote > > > relationship among planets/dasas, which explains everything. Hence I > feel > > > that post mortem is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Only a child's > > > play....Hence future predictions would be the most appropriate test > to find > > > out which ayanamsa is correct. > > > > > > 'According to ancient precepts an astrologer should not touch the > chart of > > > a dead person " > > > > > > Ancient precepts reveal some sense. > > > > > > " Let us reverse the practice and publish our failed predictions and > > > analyze them to understand as to what we missed in making such wrong > > > analysis " > > > > > > If we fail ..the reason is we are blindfolded. Astrology should have > a > > > deeper meaning than just looking out for future events in a persons > life. > > > Surely, the ancient wise men did not contemplate so hard for days > and days > > > just to find a shastra which could reveal the future of an > individual??? > > > They wanted to teach us something more meaningful and I feel that is > what > > > we miss here. > > > > > > blessings > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > --- In , " chandra_hari18 " > > > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Renuji, > > > > > > > > Jyotihsastram, most of the self styled champions do not understand > its > > > > depths and the sacrifices that have gone into its development. > Mostly > > > > these guys speaks of one Parasara who is extolled as Rishi because > he > > > > summarized the Hora and then Varahmihira who in known times (6th > cent > > > > CE) compiled the knowledge of those days. Today as computers have > become > > > > available anyone can speculate on a chart without scientific > training > > > > and abuse the subject for making money and claiming Vachaspati. > Are > > > > they to be taken as idols? > > > > > > > > What about the great people Aryabhata, Brahmagupta, Lalla, > Munjala, > > > > Haridatta, Paramesvara, Bhaskara-I and II .., men of unimaginable > > > > credentials who served the cause of Jyotisha through painstaking > studies > > > > on astronomy? We don't know about the works of their people and so > we > > > > have come to imagine that X, Y, Z are serving Jyotisha in some > hi-fi > > > > manner. Postmortem studies on 100 charts, is it Jyotisham? > > > > > > > > Is there anyone who can predict by observing Swara? You can see > some > > > > prasna jargon in certain journals. Can any Prasna be complete > without > > > > nimitta and Swara? Why the modern researchers cannot predict the > sex of > > > > the child? With Rasi and mathematics none could have predicted it > > > > without the aid of Swara. > > > > > > > > What is the birth time? I know that it is 'first cry' and is a > tantric > > > > precept. But how it can be proved by research? > > > > > > > > Computation became easy and it does not mean that research in > Jyotisha > > > > is now postmortem. According to ancient precepts an astrologer > should > > > > not touch the chart of a dead person. Is postmortem the only way > for > > > > astrological research? Where lies the true phenomenal, operational > basis > > > > of Jyotisha? > > > > > > > > No research in Jyotisha is possible without corresponding studies > in > > > > Yogasastra. But we must remember that grey beard and > pseudospiritual > > > > jargon are not the reflections of yogic vision in astrological > studies. > > > > It is my request that the group may seriously contemplate on the > > > > limitations of postmortem studies and the possibility of replacing > it > > > > with a live Jyotisham. > > > > > > > > Yes, we need living Jyotisham. Experiencing the grahas and time, > > > > experience of 'daivam'/destiny through the Siva svara, the breath > and > > > > the tattvas. Jataka, Prasna, Nimitta and Swara must go hand in > hand to > > > > make a living Jyotisham. > > > > > > > > Mortuary Jyotisham as is being produced in some journals must be > > > > outrightly rejected as they are cooked up stories published for > > > > enhancing one's personal prestige. A true astrologer should not > claim of > > > > any successful predictions in public. Let us reverse the practice > and > > > > publish our failed predictions and analyze them to understand as > to what > > > > we missed in making such wrong analysis. > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Dear Neelam ji, It is same, Lahiri and 365.25 in my case as well. Regards, Kishnacaz2r92 <velicaz wrote: Dear Neelam,As requested data used!1. Lahiri Ayanamsha2. VMD 365.25 year lengthI hope this helps. I look forward to you revealing the chart details and then trying to time events.Best Wishes...Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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