Hora = Karma_Vidya

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrahari ji, Thanks for those beutiful thoughts. The quote you are providing from Horaratna (Blabhadra quoting Mihira) is from Laghu Jataka of Mihira, which I have already mentioned and quoted. My point in the initial mail regarding this "Astrology and Karma theory" itself was that before this perticular Laghu jataka sloka which gets attributed to Mihira, in 'NOT IN ANY Rishi horas' we can find such an Astrology-Karma theory association. And that itself was the point I wanted to make. :=) I appreciate your view - but the Karma theory was indigestible to me almost from childhood and still it remains so - and I DON'T FIND any ancient astrological sage quotes available supporting it as well. So I am of the opinion that Karma theory is an interpolation into astrology by around AD 550 (the period of Mihira), and as such not at all part of the philosophical foundation of ancient indian astrology, and would like to keep things as is - till I encounter a strong proof that clarifies that the Rishi Horas also supported the Karma theory. This is not the current condition - and so while appreciating your view, my view differs.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:

Jyotisha has the appellation `Karma_Vidya' as the zodiacal-planetary symbolism is indicative of Karma. Karma means the Zenith in astronomy and it means computation in Ganita. Ganita was invented and employed first time to understand Karma and so computation received the name Karma and Jyotisha became Karma_Vidya.

 

Balabhadra has quoted Varaha –

 

Yadupachitamanyajanmani subhaasubham tasya karmanah pangktih

Vyanjayati saastrametat dravyâni deepam iva (Hora_ratnam I.28)

 

"The good and bad earned through the different births by virtue of Karma is known through Jyotisham just as the objects in dark can be found with a lamp"

Poorvajanmajanitam puraavidah karmadaivamiti samprachakshate

Merits earned in past births is referred as destiny or Karma.

Also read the note below:

Astrology in the language of modern science attempts to delineate the biological evolution of life as a function of Time. The `Time' that we mention here is not the mysterious or elusive philosophical time but it is the time that is computable, recognizable over a wheel of Time (Kâlachakra) in terms of visible planetary longitudes or apparent positions. It is very important to understand that in astrology, we are not dealing with the actual spatial positions of the planets or stars - we consider the planetary rhythms in terms of their apparent positions over an imaginary celestial sphere and accordingly we have got all "our planets (Grahas including Râhu & Úikhi) and nakshatras" at the same radial distance from us. In astrology, we deal with the Sun, Moon and other grahas in the same way was Râhu & Sikhi i.e., geometrically and this is well evident from the fact that the distances of planets from the earth has no application in astrology. We have Mars near to us than Jupiter or Saturn and Moon is near to us than Sun (which is away from all stars and the distance is expressed in terms of "light minutes") but the different distances of these planets are of no relevance in astrology. In the same way, we refer to stars as divisions of a great circle of the celestial sphere that is traced by the apparent geometrical longitudes of Sun and other Grahas. Even though it is well known, for clarification sake, I would like to add that the Sanskrit term "Graha" is not an equivalent of the English word "Planet" or vice versa when we consider the application of the term in astrology. `Graha' of astrology means the apparent geometrical longitudes that serve as indicators of time or time as niyati or the visible apparent positions of light that gives us a feel of time or the apparent geometrical longitudes that renders a computable experience of time. There is absolutely no scope for any doubt, if we study the Jyotihsâstra as Sâstra, in this respect. It's only conventional method of referring and the unscientific traditions in astrology that tend to look upon astrological references to planets as referring to the actual planetary bodies and then attempts to make explanations in terms of radiations and other physical phenomena to explain the astrological phenomena. What we experience as "niyati" has nothing to do with the physical effects of planets. Niyati evolves out of Karma and astrology deciphers the distribution of the fruits of Karma in terms of the Zodiac and the associated symbolism and mathematical constructs based on the periodicity of the apparent geometrical longitudes. Hence, Jyotihsâstra, in ancient works has also received the name "Karma Vidya".

 

Kundalini is a term that we are all familiar with – it refers to the Yogasakti arising in human beings. What has Yogasakti to do with Jyotisha, niyati or horoscope? What is Yogasakti – Sakti that unites man with the fruits of his Karma or actions? According to the principles of Tantra, Karma is Mâya or Mâyasakti and Mâya and Yoga are the negative and positive forces that reign over the realm of human existence. When Mâya is 100%, Yoga is zero and when Yoga is 100%, Mâya is zero, Karma is exhausted – Yogasakti or Kundalini carries the signature of Karma and is thus the fulfillment of one's Karma. Karma Vidya therefore makes use of Karma Kundalini, an astro-mathematical projection of the Yogic body onto the apparent solar orbit for deriving the mathematical construct that we refer normally as Zodiac or Râsi Chakram

[Guest guest]

Who all are the Rishis with whom Jyotisha originated?

Karma is the basic principle of all Indian Darasanas and Sastras. It may or may not be explicitly stated in so called Rshi_ Horas. Not mentioned is not a sufficient reason to negate a basic principle.

Life which is the subject of Jyotisha cannot be logically explained and experienced without the Karma principle. What is the objective of Jyotisha?

Jyotisha is a tool that enables the 'realization' spoken of by Darsanas. Common thread is the Karma siddhanta. If Karma siddhanta and Samkhya darsana is not there, Jyotisha shall serve no purpose and 3-Vidha dukha nivrtti is not possible.

Please think over and then we can understand as to how the Karmasiddhanta operate as the backbone of all Indian Sastras and Darsanas.

chandra hari

 

, "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear Chandrahari ji,> Thanks for those beutiful thoughts. The quote you are providing> from Horaratna (Blabhadra quoting Mihira) is from Laghu Jataka of> Mihira, which I have already mentioned and quoted. My point in the> initial mail regarding this "Astrology and Karma theory" itself was that> before this perticular Laghu jataka sloka which gets attributed to> Mihira, in 'NOT IN ANY Rishi horas' we can find such an Astrology-Karma> theory association. And that itself was the point I wanted to make.> :=)> I appreciate your view - but the Karma theory was indigestible to me> almost from childhood and still it remains so - and I DON'T FIND any> ancient astrological sage quotes available supporting it as well. So I> am of the opinion that Karma theory is an interpolation into astrology> by around AD 550 (the period of Mihira), and as such not at all part of> the philosophical foundation of ancient indian astrology, and would like> to keep things as is - till I encounter a strong proof that clarifies> that the Rishi Horas also supported the Karma theory. This is not the> current condition - and so while appreciating your view, my view> differs.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "chandra_hari18"> chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > > Jyotisha has the appellation `Karma_Vidya' as the zodiacal-planetary> symbolism is indicative of Karma. Karma means the Zenith in astronomy> and it means computation in Ganita. Ganita was invented and employed> first time to understand Karma and so computation received the name> Karma and Jyotisha became Karma_Vidya.> > > > Balabhadra has quoted Varaha –> > > > Yadupachitamanyajanmani subhaasubham tasya karmanah pangktih> > Vyanjayati saastrametat dravyâni deepam iva > (Hora_ratnam I.28)> > > > "The good and bad earned through the different births by virtue of Karma> is known through Jyotisham just as the objects in dark can be found with> a lamp"> > Poorvajanmajanitam puraavidah karmadaivamiti samprachakshate> > Merits earned in past births is referred as destiny or Karma.> > Also read the note below:> > Astrology in the language of modern science attempts to delineate the> biological evolution of life as a function of Time. The `Time' that we> mention here is not the mysterious or elusive philosophical time but it> is the time that is computable, recognizable over a wheel of Time> (Kâlachakra) in terms of visible planetary longitudes or apparent> positions. It is very important to understand that in astrology, we are> not dealing with the actual spatial positions of the planets or stars -> we consider the planetary rhythms in terms of their apparent positions> over an imaginary celestial sphere and accordingly we have got all "our> planets (Grahas including Râhu & Úikhi) and nakshatras" at the> same radial distance from us. In astrology, we deal with the Sun, Moon> and other grahas in the same way was Râhu & Sikhi i.e., geometrically> and this is well evident from the fact that the distances of planets> from the earth has no application in astrology. We have Mars near to us> than Jupiter or Saturn and Moon is near to us than Sun (which is away> from all stars and the distance is expressed in terms of "light> minutes") but the different distances of these planets are of no> relevance in astrology. In the same way, we refer to stars as divisions> of a great circle of the celestial sphere that is traced by the apparent> geometrical longitudes of Sun and other Grahas. Even though it is well> known, for clarification sake, I would like to add that the Sanskrit> term "Graha" is not an equivalent of the English word "Planet" or vice> versa when we consider the application of the term in astrology. `Graha'> of astrology means the apparent geometrical longitudes that serve as> indicators of time or time as niyati or the visible apparent positions> of light that gives us a feel of time or the apparent geometrical> longitudes that renders a computable experience of time. There is> absolutely no scope for any doubt, if we study the Jyotihsâstra as> Sâstra, in this respect. It's only conventional method of referring> and the unscientific traditions in astrology that tend to look upon> astrological references to planets as referring to the actual planetary> bodies and then attempts to make explanations in terms of radiations and> other physical phenomena to explain the astrological phenomena. What we> experience as "niyati" has nothing to do with the physical effects of> planets. Niyati evolves out of Karma and astrology deciphers the> distribution of the fruits of Karma in terms of the Zodiac and the> associated symbolism and mathematical constructs based on the> periodicity of the apparent geometrical longitudes. Hence,> Jyotihsâstra, in ancient works has also received the name "Karma> Vidya".> > > > Kundalini is a term that we are all familiar with – it refers to the> Yogasakti arising in human beings. What has Yogasakti to do with> Jyotisha, niyati or horoscope? What is Yogasakti – Sakti that unites> man with the fruits of his Karma or actions? According to the principles> of Tantra, Karma is Mâya or Mâyasakti and Mâya and Yoga are the> negative and positive forces that reign over the realm of human> existence. When Mâya is 100%, Yoga is zero and when Yoga is 100%,> Mâya is zero, Karma is exhausted – Yogasakti or Kundalini carries> the signature of Karma and is thus the fulfillment of one's Karma. Karma> Vidya therefore makes use of Karma Kundalini, an astro-mathematical> projection of the Yogic body onto the apparent solar orbit for deriving> the mathematical construct that we refer normally as Zodiac or Râsi> Chakram>

[Guest guest]

OK.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:

 

Re: Hora = Karma_Vidya

 

Who all are the Rishis with whom Jyotisha originated?

Karma is the basic principle

of all Indian Darasanas and Sastras. It may or may not be explicitly

stated in so called Rshi_ Horas. Not mentioned is not a sufficient

reason to negate a basic principle.

Life which is the subject of

Jyotisha cannot be logically explained and experienced without the

Karma principle. What is the objective of Jyotisha?

Jyotisha is a tool that

enables the 'realization' spoken of by Darsanas. Common thread is the

Karma siddhanta. If Karma siddhanta and Samkhya darsana is not there,

Jyotisha shall serve no purpose and 3-Vidha dukha nivrtti is not

possible.

Please think over and then we can understand as to how the Karmasiddhanta operate as the backbone of all Indian Sastras and Darsanas.

chandra hari

> , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> >> > Dear Chandrahari ji,> > Thanks for those beutiful thoughts. The quote you are providing> > from Horaratna (Blabhadra quoting Mihira) is from Laghu Jataka of> > Mihira, which I have already mentioned and quoted. My point in the> > initial mail regarding this "Astrology and Karma theory" itself was> that> > before this perticular Laghu jataka sloka which gets attributed to> > Mihira, in 'NOT IN ANY Rishi horas' we can find such an> Astrology-Karma> > theory association. And that itself was the point I wanted to make.> > :=)> > I appreciate your view - but the Karma theory was indigestible to me> > almost from childhood and still it remains so - and I DON'T FIND any> > ancient astrological sage quotes available supporting it as well. So I> > am of the opinion that Karma theory is an interpolation into astrology> > by around AD 550 (the period of Mihira), and as such not at all part> of> > the philosophical foundation of ancient indian astrology, and would> like> > to keep things as is - till I encounter a strong proof that clarifies> > that the Rishi Horas also supported the Karma theory. This is not the> > current condition - and so while appreciating your view, my view> > differs.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > , "chandra_hari18"> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> >> >> > Jyotisha has the appellation `Karma_Vidya' as the zodiacal-planetary> > symbolism is indicative of Karma. Karma means the Zenith in astronomy> > and it means computation in Ganita. Ganita was invented and employed> > first time to understand Karma and so computation received the name> > Karma and Jyotisha became Karma_Vidya.> >> >> >> > Balabhadra has quoted Varaha –> >> >> >> > Yadupachitamanyajanmani subhaasubham tasya karmanah pangktih> >> > Vyanjayati saastrametat dravyâni deepam iva> > (Hora_ratnam I.28)> >> >> >> > "The good and bad earned through the different births by virtue of> Karma> > is known through Jyotisham just as the objects in dark can be found> with> > a lamp"> >> > Poorvajanmajanitam puraavidah karmadaivamiti samprachakshate> >> > Merits earned in past births is referred as destiny or Karma.> >> > Also read the note below:> >> > Astrology in the language of modern science attempts to delineate the> > biological evolution of life as a function of Time. The `Time' that we> > mention here is not the mysterious or elusive philosophical time but> it> > is the time that is computable, recognizable over a wheel of Time> > (Kâlachakra) in terms of visible planetary longitudes or apparent> > positions. It is very important to understand that in astrology, we> are> > not dealing with the actual spatial positions of the planets or stars> -> > we consider the planetary rhythms in terms of their apparent positions> > over an imaginary celestial sphere and accordingly we have got all> "our> > planets (Grahas including Râhu & Úikhi) and nakshatras" at the> > same radial distance from us. In astrology, we deal with the Sun, Moon> > and other grahas in the same way was Râhu & Sikhi i.e.,> geometrically> > and this is well evident from the fact that the distances of planets> > from the earth has no application in astrology. We have Mars near to> us> > than Jupiter or Saturn and Moon is near to us than Sun (which is away> > from all stars and the distance is expressed in terms of "light> > minutes") but the different distances of these planets are of no> > relevance in astrology. In the same way, we refer to stars as> divisions> > of a great circle of the celestial sphere that is traced by the> apparent> > geometrical longitudes of Sun and other Grahas. Even though it is well> > known, for clarification sake, I would like to add that the Sanskrit> > term "Graha" is not an equivalent of the English word "Planet" or vice> > versa when we consider the application of the term in astrology.> `Graha'> > of astrology means the apparent geometrical longitudes that serve as> > indicators of time or time as niyati or the visible apparent positions> > of light that gives us a feel of time or the apparent geometrical> > longitudes that renders a computable experience of time. There is> > absolutely no scope for any doubt, if we study the Jyotihsâstra as> > Sâstra, in this respect. It's only conventional method of referring> > and the unscientific traditions in astrology that tend to look upon> > astrological references to planets as referring to the actual> planetary> > bodies and then attempts to make explanations in terms of radiations> and> > other physical phenomena to explain the astrological phenomena. What> we> > experience as "niyati" has nothing to do with the physical effects of> > planets. Niyati evolves out of Karma and astrology deciphers the> > distribution of the fruits of Karma in terms of the Zodiac and the> > associated symbolism and mathematical constructs based on the> > periodicity of the apparent geometrical longitudes. Hence,> > Jyotihsâstra, in ancient works has also received the name "Karma> > Vidya".> >> >> >> > Kundalini is a term that we are all familiar with – it refers to> the> > Yogasakti arising in human beings. What has Yogasakti to do with> > Jyotisha, niyati or horoscope? What is Yogasakti – Sakti that> unites> > man with the fruits of his Karma or actions? According to the> principles> > of Tantra, Karma is Mâya or Mâyasakti and Mâya and Yoga are> the> > negative and positive forces that reign over the realm of human> > existence. When Mâya is 100%, Yoga is zero and when Yoga is 100%,> > Mâya is zero, Karma is exhausted – Yogasakti or Kundalini> carries> > the signature of Karma and is thus the fulfillment of one's Karma.> Karma> > Vidya therefore makes use of Karma Kundalini, an astro-mathematical> > projection of the Yogic body onto the apparent solar orbit for> deriving> > the mathematical construct that we refer normally as Zodiac or Râsi> > Chakram> >>