Guest guest Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Dear Sarajit ji, A beautiful exposition of the weakness of logic and guidance in right direction. Well said! Love and Hugs, Sreenadh , " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit.poddar wrote: > > || Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Gopu, > > Thanks for the narration. > > Please see my response below. > > Regards > Sarajit > > On Dec 1, 2007 1:05 PM, K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote: > > > > dear members, > > yesterday i happen to listen in DD(tamil TV channel) a > > short explanation rendered by a Vedic shcolar abt body > > and atma(soul). > > He was telling that atma is almost like an atom not > > visible to the naked eye and it gets lodged in the > > heart of the fetus(unborn child)which also makes the > > heart pump. When atma decides to leave out of the body > > the heart stops funtioning. Even in cases of brain > > death the heart keeps functioning because of the > > presence of atma. > > [sarajit] If brain can die without the body dying, does it mean brain > has its own atma, which is different from the body... that it lived at > somepoint and died at some other point, which is not the same with the > death of the heart or body. Does each organ of us have different atma. > However each cell of our body. We all know that they are living and > each of them have their own identity. Each of them can be separated > into a single living cell and kept it living outside the body. For > example the blood collected from the body has numerous such living > cells... Does each one of them has one atma each or they share the > same atma as the body! > > > Body is composed of PanchaBhuthas ie air, water, agni, > > earth(minerals) and ether(space). when these five > > elements join together we find changes in our body at > > every stage whereas if air is alone or water is alone > > or heat is alone none of them change. He gave an > > example of how Rava a bye product of wheat when it > > remains alone it doesnt change, when it is mixed with > > water,salt, spices and made to hot uppuma( south > > indian delicacy) it remains stable only for a day and > > the next day it changes or it starts smelling. > > [sarajit] Its only a matter of time, something like uppama can > decompose faster than something else like Rava! Anything which is > created will be destroyed! They will also undergo the change from > birth-sustenance-death (destruction/ annihilation). > > whereas > > atma doesnt change because it isnt a combination of > > various materials. So a body of a living creature has > > to undergo the change from the time of conception till > > death. > > [sarajit] Well said! Atma does not die because it does not have a > distinct existence, it has no beginning and hence no end... It is just > a state of being like the param-atma. Only our consciousness makes us > feel to have a different atma compared to others! > > > > > good wishes, > > k.gopu > > > > ________ > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > -- > Best Wishes > Sarajit Poddar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 Dear Gopu ji and Sarajit ji, A new being can be created from a single cell - in case of plants and in cloning. So either there is a soul in every cell, or there is none (in the popular notion). When some one says soul, what ever he may argue about its philosophical definitions, what comes to peoples mind is some human like form or light that resides inside all the human beings with related memory, nature etc associated with it. This is false and erroneous. That was why Buddha used the word 'Anatma' instead of 'Atma' to correct the common people's notion. In this new age it is better to assume that - " We need to CULTIVATE and Atma " and also that " Most people are without an atma " - because this notion can help more. Atma is synonymous to Brahan as per Upanishads. So it must be just another name for the stuff with which the universe is created with. God IS universe. Brahnam IS universe. Thus Atma IS universe. If instead of the word Brahnam or Universe if you want to use the word Consciousness, then Atma is Consciousness (Prajna). Thus there is only one Atma as Sarajit ji said. And no multiple atmans flying around. This is my trust. Love, Sreenadh , " Sarajit Poddar " <sarajit.poddar wrote: > > || Jaya Jagannath || > Dear Gopu, > > I understood what the vedic scholar said. I was thinking on the > philosophical angle of the statements. Please see my comments below. > > Regards > Sarajit > > On Dec 1, 2007 9:43 PM, K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear Mr. Sarajit, > > I think u havent understood the msg conveyed by the > > vedic scholar. I am not sure whether u have seen a > > person admitted in the hospital in the ICU for cardiac > > failure. the doctors try their best to save the > > patient. But once multi organ failure sets in, the > > chances of the patient living is bleak. And in this > > multi organ failure, the last organ to stop is the > > heart and only in that context the vedic scholar has > > said that the atma is seated in the heart > > The most accepted notion of death is the brain death. After the heart > stops, the brain still functions and hence the dying person can still > be brought to life using various means such as cardiopulmonary > resuscitation (CPR). However when the brain stops, it cannot be > reversed. About the multi organ failure, the organ starts failing only > when the blood flow to them stops, hence they set in after the heart > stops. I am not an medical expert and hence I my statements are based > on general understanding. May be some medical experts can confirm or > refute. > > > and not as > > per ur interpretation that each organ in the body be > > it a cell, has an atma. As a matter of fact in our > > body every second a cell dies and a new cell forms. > > this cell death is called apoptosis which is > > essential. so there is no atma or soul in the > > individual cell or other organs. > > If cells are born, they live and die. In many ways they behave the > same way, we do, however in a microscopic scale. They also have their > own organs, they eat, they rest etc...Are you suggesting that the > cells are able to do this without having atma? Then whats the > difference between their state of living and death! > > > > > good wishes, > > k.gopu > > > > ________ > > Be a better pen pal. > > Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how. > > http://overview.mail./ > > > > > > -- > Best Wishes > Sarajit Poddar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 I was reading a book titled "Before the BEGINNING and after the END" by Rishi Kumar Mishra. This book essentially describes the "Physics of the Universe" as explained in Vedas. In this book the author describes that the physical existance of anything is based on a tripod made of Prana (the life force), Wak (matter, a manifestation of pancha bhootas) and Mana. In brief, the definition of these three lelements are as follows: Prana - Prana is that which is eternally and continously active and all activity in this universe is a manifestation of Prana. Pranana never sleeps unlike Mana. Wak - Wak occupies space and has form - basically it is matter Mana - Has no specific form and can not be seen. No action or activity takes place in Mana. Activity only appears to exist in Mana because of the presence of Prana. On its own Mana is inactive. Prana, Mana and Wak don't exist in isolation from each other in this universe. Prana is obidient to Mana, does not engage in any activity without being directed by Mana. The interaction of Prana, mana and Wak takes place in such a way so as to give rise to a new entity. Atma is a triad of Prana, Mana and Wak, and the proportion of these three tatwas varies in different entities and in various spiecies. But no entity is bereft or beyond Atma. The difference and variety lie in the degree of manifestation of the components that comprise Atma or its three facets - Body, Mind and Intellect. Although every object has a body, we distinguish between material objects - which are predominently 'body' - and sentinent beings which have more than only a body, in that there are the other facets of Mind and Intellect in varying degrees of manifestation. In human beings all these facets are fully evolved. It goes on... This is an interesting read indeed! Regards, Krishna Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Gopu ji and Sarajit ji,A new being can be created from a single cell - in case of plantsand in cloning. So either there is a soul in every cell, or there isnone (in the popular notion). When some one says soul, what ever hemay argue about its philosophical definitions, what comes to peoplesmind is some human like form or light that resides inside all thehuman beings with related memory, nature etc associated with it. Thisis false and erroneous. That was why Buddha used the word 'Anatma'instead of 'Atma' to correct the common people's notion. In this new age it is better to assume that - "We need to CULTIVATEand Atma" and also that "Most people are without an atma" - becausethis notion can help more. Atma is synonymous to Brahan as per Upanishads. So it must be justanother name for the stuff with which the universe is created with.God IS universe. Brahnam IS universe. Thus Atma IS universe. Ifinstead of the word Brahnam or Universe if you want to use the wordConsciousness, then Atma is Consciousness (Prajna). Thus there is only one Atma as Sarajit ji said. And no multipleatmans flying around. This is my trust. Love,Sreenadh , "Sarajit Poddar"<sarajit.poddar wrote:>> || Jaya Jagannath ||> Dear Gopu,> > I understood what the vedic scholar said. I was thinking on the> philosophical angle of the statements. Please see my comments below.> > Regards> Sarajit> > On Dec 1, 2007 9:43 PM, K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > dear Mr. Sarajit,> > I think u havent understood the msg conveyed by the> > vedic scholar. I am not sure whether u have seen a> > person admitted in the hospital in the ICU for cardiac> > failure. the doctors try their best to save the> > patient. But once multi organ failure sets in, the> > chances of the patient living is bleak. And in this> > multi organ failure, the last organ to stop is the> > heart and only in that context the vedic scholar has> > said that the atma is seated in the heart> > The most accepted notion of death is the brain death. After the heart> stops, the brain still functions and hence the dying person can still> be brought to life using various means such as cardiopulmonary> resuscitation (CPR). However when the brain stops, it cannot be> reversed. About the multi organ failure, the organ starts failing only> when the blood flow to them stops, hence they set in after the heart> stops. I am not an medical expert and hence I my statements are based> on general understanding. May be some medical experts can confirm or> refute.> > > and not as> > per ur interpretation that each organ in the body be> > it a cell, has an atma. As a matter of fact in our> > body every second a cell dies and a new cell forms.> > this cell death is called apoptosis which is> > essential. so there is no atma or soul in the> > individual cell or other organs.> > If cells are born, they live and die. In many ways they behave the> same way, we do, however in a microscopic scale. They also have their> own organs, they eat, they rest etc...Are you suggesting that the> cells are able to do this without having atma? Then whats the> difference between their state of living and death!> > >> > good wishes,> > k.gopu> >> > ________> > Be a better pen pal.> > Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how.> > http://overview.mail./> > > > > > -- > Best Wishes> Sarajit Poddar> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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