RE: Science is science and Rgveda is Rgveda....

[Guest guest]

Vinita ji, I can feel your pulse. Many believe that Vedas are different and Science is only modern and hence different from Vedas. But, what I believe is Vedas are comprise of lot of Science - Quantum Physics beyond the limits of current modern thinking. One book gave this perspective to me is "Before the BEGINNING and After the END" by Rishi Kumar Mishra. The process of creation of the universe has been very well detailed in our vedas - scientifically. As you have rightly said different people interpret things in different ways. Sanskrit as a language offers this kind of possibility inherently. One can deleniate the meaning in differnt planes at the level that they are capable to understand. Here, I would like to clarify that I am no expert in sanskrit. This opinion is what I have gathered over time. To me it appears funny to read "Science is science and Rgveda is Rgveda....". I would rather prefer to

say " Rigveda is Science..." Regards, Krishna vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: hi friends,in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's the impression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i could be wrong.meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writings from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgable persons who have been contributing in the same way.But then just

as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda, aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancient texts a little far removed from science? Or could one even venture to say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don't we all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun in libra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor. Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one of the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor in sanskrit perhaps is madhu....."Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, a fermented beverage made from honey. Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil." wickipediabut then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia is subject to corrections.Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a

tenuous connection between mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughable too...!!!!What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very rich historical knowledge base but then there are distortions that have occured in this on the following counts:1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them (discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using their own perceptions and sometimes imagination)3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on account of layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article in the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the mother earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth. Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi."Life originated on earath with the help of

sun's rays. Vegetation was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He represents seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sprout without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters of the river Aswa...."There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludes in a predictable way:"The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to the importance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings we have within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth (environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutual harmony".Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akar of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum where discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indian texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch

arguments, and a scientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basis of all this is shifting sand????At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in great awe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imagination may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i also love it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks of English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar to this.Having said all this let me also confess that i am the least qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nursery class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a little diffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forum having committed grave errors in calling "dhai akshar" dhai "words" :( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart from being

just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes i do need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just for sanskrit.....Regards and best wishes,vinita

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[Guest guest]

Dear Vinita ,Rig means stanza. Rig Veda means collection of stanzas . It does not have a definite structure or a theme as the other three vedas have . It is collection of experiences of rishis in a poetic way .

Secondly as per the Nirukta of the Yaskamuni , every word has its own strength , flavour and meaning . Some examples of these are Kunti was called Pritha . Why ? Pritha means fat . Kunti was indeed short and fat . She was likened to earth which also is fat in the middle hence the name . You will see in the Mahabharat nobody excepting Krishna calls Arjun as Parth . You will now know why . The beauty of rigvedic sanskrit is that number and gender does not make any difference to it . Secondly every word holds true on many levels so not only many meanings can be derived out of the same poem , but also many different people can use it for thier own material purpose . It is this versatality that has allowed the knowledge to continue its passage through the ages . Regards ,Anand On Dec 7, 2007 12:04 AM, vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:

 

 

 

 

hi friends,

 

in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's the

impression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i could

be wrong.

 

meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writings

from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgable

persons who have been contributing in the same way.

 

But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda,

aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancient

texts a little far removed from science? Or could one even venture

to say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don't

we all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...

 

i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun in

libra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor.

Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one of

the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor in

sanskrit perhaps is madhu.....

 

" Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, a

fermented beverage made from honey.

Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil. " wickipedia

 

but then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia is

subject to corrections.

 

Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a tenuous connection

between mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughable

too...!!!!

 

What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very rich

historical knowledge base but then there are distortions that have

occured in this on the following counts:

 

1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them

(discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)

2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using their

own perceptions and sometimes imagination)

3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on account

of layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.

 

The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article in

the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the mother

earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth.

Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi.

 

" Life originated on earath with the help of sun's rays. Vegetation

was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He represents

seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sprout

without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters of

the river Aswa.... "

 

There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludes

in a predictable way:

 

" The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to the

importance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings we

have within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth

(environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutual

harmony " .

 

Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akar

of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)

 

The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum where

discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indian

texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments, and a

scientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basis

of all this is shifting sand????

 

At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in great

awe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imagination

may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i also

love it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....

 

Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks of

English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar to

this.

 

Having said all this let me also confess that i am the least

qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nursery

class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a little

diffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forum

having committed grave errors in calling " dhai akshar " dhai " words " :

(:( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart from

being just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes i

do need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just for

sanskrit.....

 

Regards and best wishes,

vinita

 

 

 

 

-- Regards ,AnandA. K. GhuryeMobile : 9820 489 416 Phone : 2685 5496 email : hmm_aha-------

§ Training § Development § Relationships § Synectics email : hmm_aha Home page :

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[Guest guest]

Dear Vinita ji, Thanks for the wonderful mail! It is many days I read such a beautiful and thought provokking mail. Your mastery of words, and the ability to express the innate ideas is truely wonderful! Here is some of my related observations - * Many spiritualists (with out experience and without proper understanding of science and analytical/scientific approach of science) tries to find all science in Vedas and ancient indian knowledge branches. * Many scientists and believers in science (without any proper understanding of other thinking methods such as holistic methods and alied knowledge branches) out of ignorance discard most ancient knowledge branches as pagan or primitive. * Now in this new era some spiritualists with true experience with systematic understanding of science and scientists with a better understanding of holistic knowledge branches are coming up to bridge the gap between two sets of fools who saw the elephant (and never understood that a knowledge of both edges and of these opposing methods and perspectives is necessary to have a correct understanding of the reality) and clear the dust - and present a balanced view. * People on this 3rd category always tries to correct the erroneous, either by taking up and presenting the opposing argument to people of both first and second categories (e.g: as hari ji did) or try to present their perspective in bright light (e.g: as vinita ji did). But the point is - irrespective of what they say, the inner thread and death always clearly reflects the people in the 3rd category. Sorry to mention the examples, but the point is - I wanted to point out the difference in approach which could be useful to some. The point is - an understanding about the process and approach of both the systems/knowledgebase we discuss about should be available with us, or the minimum understanding about the difference between the holistic (ancient indian knowledge branches) and analytical (science) should be present. Love and regards to all,Sreenadh , "vinita kumar" <shankar_mamta wrote:hi friends,in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's theimpression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i couldbe wrong.meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writingsfrom ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgablepersons who have been contributing in the same way.But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda,aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancienttexts a little far removed from science? Or could one even ventureto say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don'twe all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun inlibra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor.Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one ofthe previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor insanskrit perhaps is madhu....."Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, afermented beverage made from honey.Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil." wickipediabut then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia issubject to corrections.Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a tenuous connectionbetween mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughabletoo...!!!!What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very richhistorical knowledge base but then there are distortions that haveoccured in this on the following counts:1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them(discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using theirown perceptions and sometimes imagination)3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on accountof layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article inthe Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the motherearth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth.Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi."Life originated on earath with the help of sun's rays. Vegetationwas born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He representsseed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sproutwithout water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters ofthe river Aswa...."There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludesin a predictable way:"The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to theimportance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings wehave within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth(environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutualharmony".Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akarof god is round...they should meet somewhere;)The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum wherediscussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indiantexts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments, and ascientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basisof all this is shifting sand????At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in greatawe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imaginationmay often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i alsolove it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks ofEnglish language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar tothis.Having said all this let me also confess that i am the leastqualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nurseryclass to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a littlediffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forumhaving committed grave errors in calling "dhai akshar" dhai "words" :( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart frombeing just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes ido need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just forsanskrit.....Regards and best wishes,vinita

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

Personally, I would like to beleive that Vedas and

present day science are not mutually exclusive.

 

I have refrained from the use of the term modern

science and instead used the term " present day "

science as by instinct everybody fancy associating

themselves to being modern as that is more fashionable

..

 

Many of the modern theories, concepts and formulations

of present day science have already been told in the

Vedas but using a different kind of language and

semantics.This language might have made sense to the

people of the antique age.

 

Keplers law or orbital motion, Einsteins mass energy

equivalence, Lorentz - Fitzgerald contraction theories

have all been told in the Vedas in a poetic

manner.

 

Why present day science and the likes of Einstein,

Kepler connects more and ONLY with the intellectual

community now is that they express themselves

quantitatively by way of an equation and formula.

 

Vedas instead attempt to make esoteric knowledge

exoteric by way of a poetic language which is even

comprehensible to ordinary people. The Indian approach

to Vedas is more " devotional " and less logical.

 

I would say, present day science eventhough has

accomplished much is still trying to catch up with the

higher esoteric knowledge in the Vedas.

 

Recently I came across an article by Stephan Philipps

who using string theory says " Sri Yantra " is the

blue print of life - ( Vishnu is also Chakrapani ).

 

In short, Sri yantra is a symbolism of life ( 1 of the

4 energies of Vishnu as in RV ). We are yet unable to

comprehend what the other symbols are - conch, disc

and lotus )- lotus could be centripetal energy.

 

Absolute truth is only one. We may express and attempt

to decode it differently - Vedas had its own approach

and present day science has its own - both the paths

utlimately might lead us to the ABSOLUTE.

 

Regards

 

Bejoy C.S.

www.keraladarsan.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998

wrote:

 

> Vinita ji,

>

> I can feel your pulse. Many believe that Vedas are

> different and Science is only modern and hence

> different from Vedas. But, what I believe is Vedas

> are comprise of lot of Science - Quantum Physics

> beyond the limits of current modern thinking. One

> book gave this perspective to me is " Before the

> BEGINNING and After the END " by Rishi Kumar Mishra.

> The process of creation of the universe has been

> very well detailed in our vedas - scientifically. As

> you have rightly said different people interpret

> things in different ways. Sanskrit as a language

> offers this kind of possibility inherently. One can

> deleniate the meaning in differnt planes at the

> level that they are capable to understand. Here, I

> would like to clarify that I am no expert in

> sanskrit. This opinion is what I have gathered over

> time.

>

> To me it appears funny to read " Science is science

> and Rgveda is Rgveda.... " . I would rather prefer to

> say " Rigveda is Science... "

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

>

> vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:

> hi friends,

>

> in this forum we try to be scientific abt

> astrology...or that's the

> impression i have drawn from some of the

> messages...but then i could

> be wrong.

>

> meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece

> together writings

> from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are

> other knowledgable

> persons who have been contributing in the same way.

>

> But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case

> of rgveda,

> aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or

> other ancient

> texts a little far removed from science? Or could

> one even venture

> to say that are they amenable to scientific

> interpretation???? don't

> we all have to use our imagination...to derive

> meanings...

>

> i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for

> sun in

> libra...which can mean both elephant driver and

> seller of liquor.

> Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which

> as told in one of

> the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just

> as liquor in

> sanskrit perhaps is madhu.....

>

> " Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English

> word mead, a

> fermented beverage made from honey.

> Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil. "

> wickipedia

>

> but then as somebody will tell me, information in

> wickipedia is

> subject to corrections.

>

> Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a

> tenuous connection

> between mahout and madhu...but then that could be

> laughable

> too...!!!!

>

> What i have gathered from this forum is that we have

> a very rich

> historical knowledge base but then there are

> distortions that have

> occured in this on the following counts:

>

> 1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby

> adulterating them

> (discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)

> 2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit

> themselves (using their

> own perceptions and sometimes imagination)

> 3. people deriving different meanings from the same

> texts on account

> of layers and layers of different meaning of

> sanskrit words.

>

> The last issue is very interesting. today there was

> an article in

> the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa

> personified the mother

> earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti

> means earth.

> Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi.

>

> " Life originated on earath with the help of sun's

> rays. Vegetation

> was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He

> represents

> seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a

> seed cannot sprout

> without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in

> the waters of

> the river Aswa.... "

>

> There are many such parallels drawn in this article

> which concludes

> in a predictable way:

>

> " The above interpretation merely seeks to draw

> attention to the

> importance of all aspects of the environment for as

> human beings we

> have within us elements of all that exists outside

> of us. The earth

> (environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to

> live in mutual

> harmony " .

>

> Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum,

> but if the akar

> of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)

>

> The limited point i was trying to make is that on

> this forum where

> discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in

> ancient indian

> texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments,

> and a

> scientific and systematic approach is encouraged,

> what if the basis

> of all this is shifting sand????

>

> At a more personal level i hold our ancient

> knowledge base in great

> awe and respect....but it is its interpretation

> (where imagination

> may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused.

> But then i also

> love it when imagination takes flights into the

> clouds....

>

> Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding

> the quirks of

> English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be

> dissimilar to

> this.

>

> Having said all this let me also confess that i am

> the least

> qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to

> enroll in nursery

> class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel

> a little

> diffident these days to write anything on this

> knowledgable forum

> having committed grave errors in calling " dhai

> akshar " dhai " words " :

> (:( and counting three years as 13 years

> (((((....apart from

> being just a beginner in learning the letter A of

> astrology. Yes i

> do need to enroll in nursery class once again and

> not just for

> sanskrit.....

>

> Regards and best wishes,

> vinita

 

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Vinita,

 

I am new to astrology.... and know almost nothing about Sanskrit.....except understand few basic words of Sanskrit. So I am in much less qualified to talk about it or our Sanskrit heritage.

 

But regarding your comments about Kunti... representing earth / Prithvi etc ......may be I should put my ideas / imaginations ( I can not cite references).

 

To start with... Pritha might have come from Parthian (Greeks).....

 

Prithivi / Prithvi... has been mentioned some places.... like Sita (daughter of earth)...... and in few examples, Prithivi has taken form of Cow too....The english word Geo (as in geography etc) and cow has same root as Go/gow

 

But I will tell about some Personality which has a confirmation from non-Sanskrit source too.. and that you might find it quite interesting.

 

It is about NARAKASURA......

 

As per Puranic source.... Narakasura was conceived by Prithvi after impregnation by Vishnu.. Later he became king..... became a tyrant... and was killed by Sri Krishna.... on Naraka Chaturdashi (the day before Dewali).

 

Now the ethnic Bodo tribes of Assam (A Tibeto-Burmese Mongoloid group) refers to Narakasur as NARAKHA -DA (Da means - King or something like that)...one of their own. As per their myth / history... Narakha was a son of their king. Due to palace conspiracy, his preganant mother fled to neighbouring kingdom of Magadha. There Narakha was born, attended schooling and became a Vishnu Bhakta. He was there for 14 yrs. Then he came back to his own kingdom and later became a king. although initially a Vishnu Bhakta, he changed over time to mecome bitter critic of Vishnu and associated religion. He was later killed by some outside king.

 

The inference I drew from this myth is.....

 

Prithvi in Sanskrit references means ... local populace etc... The word GO / GOW (cow) also means same thing when used from that perspective. So, Gotra refers to a particular populace / tribe only... nothing to do with 'Cow-shed' as Leftist intellectual tries to portray.

 

Son / daughter of earth...... means someone who is from that population..... So, Sita's story (Janak found Sita while ploughing (sexual act) .. the Prithvi (local populace) .. some Kshetra (Refer to Kshetraj Santan definition.... a son or daughter from someone else's wife with due consent from the Husband).

 

So, many other possible meanings / interpretations are possible. That is the charm of an Epic. It relates to everyones liking / knowledge level / taste etc... and becomes Timeless Classic.

 

'Hope the forum members enjoys this ..

 

Regards

 

Chakra

 

 

 

 

Friday, December 07, 2007 12:04 AM Subject: Science is science and Rgveda is Rgveda....

 

hi friends,in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's the impression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i could be wrong.meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writings from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgable persons who have been contributing in the same way.But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda, aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancient texts a little far removed from science? Or could one even venture to say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don't we all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun in libra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor. Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one of the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor in sanskrit perhaps is madhu....."Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, a fermented beverage made from honey. Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil." wickipediabut then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia is subject to corrections.Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a tenuous connection between mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughable too...!!!!What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very rich historical knowledge base but then there are distortions that have occured in this on the following counts:1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them (discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using their own perceptions and sometimes imagination)3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on account of layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article in the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the mother earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth. Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi."Life originated on earath with the help of sun's rays. Vegetation was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He represents seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sprout without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters of the river Aswa...."There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludes in a predictable way:"The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to the importance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings we have within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth (environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutual harmony".Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akar of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum where discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indian texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments, and a scientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basis of all this is shifting sand????At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in great awe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imagination may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i also love it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks of English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar to this.Having said all this let me also confess that i am the least qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nursery class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a little diffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forum having committed grave errors in calling "dhai akshar" dhai "words" :( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart from being just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes i do need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just for sanskrit.....Regards and best wishes,vinitaThis Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,

Thanks for the nice mail.

==>

> Now the ethnic Bodo tribes of Assam (A Tibeto-Burmese Mongoloid

group) refers to Narakasur as NARAKHA -DA (Da means - King or

something like that)...one of their own.

<==

To related information could be - The Asura tribe is supposed to

have an origin in Kamakhya and Prag Jyotisha puri in north east.

Narakasura is part of an imporant non-vedic tradtion the 'Asura

tradition'.

The Snake temples and place names associated with snake (Nagpur,

Nagarcoil etc) are present from Napal border to Kanaya kumari -

indicating a migration? Another important tradition?

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Hi Vinita,

>

> I am new to astrology.... and know almost nothing about

Sanskrit.....except understand few basic words of Sanskrit. So I am in

much less qualified to talk about it or our Sanskrit heritage.

>

> But regarding your comments about Kunti... representing earth /

Prithvi etc ......may be I should put my ideas / imaginations ( I can

not cite references).

>

> To start with... Pritha might have come from Parthian (Greeks).....

>

> Prithivi / Prithvi... has been mentioned some places.... like Sita

(daughter of earth)...... and in few examples, Prithivi has taken form

of Cow too....The english word Geo (as in geography etc) and cow has

same root as Go/gow

>

> But I will tell about some Personality which has a confirmation from

non-Sanskrit source too.. and that you might find it quite interesting.

>

> It is about NARAKASURA......

>

> As per Puranic source.... Narakasura was conceived by Prithvi after

impregnation by Vishnu.. Later he became king..... became a tyrant...

and was killed by Sri Krishna.... on Naraka Chaturdashi (the day

before Dewali).

>

> Now the ethnic Bodo tribes of Assam (A Tibeto-Burmese Mongoloid

group) refers to Narakasur as NARAKHA -DA (Da means - King or

something like that)...one of their own. As per their myth /

history... Narakha was a son of their king. Due to palace

conspiracy, his preganant mother fled to neighbouring kingdom of

Magadha. There Narakha was born, attended schooling and became a

Vishnu Bhakta. He was there for 14 yrs. Then he came back to his own

kingdom and later became a king. although initially a Vishnu Bhakta,

he changed over time to mecome bitter critic of Vishnu and associated

religion. He was later killed by some outside king.

>

> The inference I drew from this myth is.....

>

> Prithvi in Sanskrit references means ... local populace etc... The

word GO / GOW (cow) also means same thing when used from that

perspective. So, Gotra refers to a particular populace / tribe only...

nothing to do with 'Cow-shed' as Leftist intellectual tries to portray.

>

> Son / daughter of earth...... means someone who is from that

population..... So, Sita's story (Janak found Sita while ploughing

(sexual act) .. the Prithvi (local populace) .. some Kshetra

(Refer to Kshetraj Santan definition.... a son or daughter from

someone else's wife with due consent from the Husband).

>

> So, many other possible meanings / interpretations are possible.

That is the charm of an Epic. It relates to everyones liking /

knowledge level / taste etc... and becomes Timeless Classic.

>

> 'Hope the forum members enjoys this ..

>

> Regards

>

> Chakra

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> Friday, December 07, 2007 12:04 AM

>

> Science is science and Rgveda is

Rgveda....

>

>

>

> hi friends,

>

> in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's the

> impression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i could

> be wrong.

>

> meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writings

> from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgable

> persons who have been contributing in the same way.

>

> But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda,

> aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancient

> texts a little far removed from science? Or could one even venture

> to say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don't

> we all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...

>

> i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun in

> libra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor.

> Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one of

> the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor in

> sanskrit perhaps is madhu.....

>

> " Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, a

> fermented beverage made from honey.

> Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil. " wickipedia

>

> but then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia is

> subject to corrections.

>

> Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a tenuous connection

> between mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughable

> too...!!!!

>

> What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very rich

> historical knowledge base but then there are distortions that have

> occured in this on the following counts:

>

> 1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them

> (discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)

> 2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using their

> own perceptions and sometimes imagination)

> 3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on account

> of layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.

>

> The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article in

> the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the mother

> earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth.

> Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi.

>

> " Life originated on earath with the help of sun's rays. Vegetation

> was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He represents

> seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sprout

> without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters of

> the river Aswa.... "

>

> There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludes

> in a predictable way:

>

> " The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to the

> importance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings we

> have within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth

> (environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutual

> harmony " .

>

> Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akar

> of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)

>

> The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum where

> discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indian

> texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments, and a

> scientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basis

> of all this is shifting sand????

>

> At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in great

> awe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imagination

> may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i also

> love it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....

>

> Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks of

> English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar to

> this.

>

> Having said all this let me also confess that i am the least

> qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nursery

> class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a little

> diffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forum

> having committed grave errors in calling " dhai akshar " dhai " words " :

> (:( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart from

> being just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes i

> do need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just for

> sanskrit.....

>

> Regards and best wishes,

> vinita

>

>

>

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The

information contained in this electronic message and any attachments

to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s)

and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information.

If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate,

distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately

and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sreenadh,

 

I would not go to Sura / Asura divide... it will be a too difficult and diverse subject for me. Even Varuna (later day Uranus) etc. were supposedly Asura... and Indra was supposedly called Asura at one or two places in Rgveda.

 

As far as my undersatnding goes.... The Bodo tribe may have been part of Kirata group. The Kirata group was, as some suggest, present from Pacific coast to N. East...North-East being a buffer zone. The Mongoloid group in Nepal claim that they are from Kirata group. The expert in NE ethnology, Sri Maheswar Neog also suggest that Assam was / is a Kirata Land.

 

The migration of population .... and sharing of same myths.. is highly probable. Like Usha-Aniruddha affair and Ban / Van Asura... it is claimed by Ukhimath (near Ranikhet..Almorah ?) and Sonitpur in Assam... all of them claim that place. And Bhima was present in too many places wherever any stone-made megalithic structure of big-scale is present.

 

The Nag group might have been different from this Kirata group.. they existed alongwith the Ksatriya Clans... If I remeber correctly, Arjuna of Maha Bharat was kidnapped by a Naag Princess while taking a bath in Prayag.

 

BTW, it is Pragjyotish Pur (not Puri)... and the earlier Kings of of Pragjyotishpur...Narakasur, Vaan, Bhagadutta, Mahidanava...all of them were on the wrong side of the Kurukshetra war / Vedic people. Quite possible that they were depicted in poor light.

 

The Victors re-write the history and myths....is not that so, always.. ?

 

Regards

 

 

Saturday, December 08, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: Re: Science is science and Rgveda is Rgveda....

 

Dear Chakraborty ji,Thanks for the nice mail. ==>> Now the ethnic Bodo tribes of Assam (A Tibeto-Burmese Mongoloidgroup) refers to Narakasur as NARAKHA -DA (Da means - King orsomething like that)...one of their own. <==To related information could be - The Asura tribe is supposed tohave an origin in Kamakhya and Prag Jyotisha puri in north east.Narakasura is part of an imporant non-vedic tradtion the 'Asuratradition'. The Snake temples and place names associated with snake (Nagpur,Nagarcoil etc) are present from Napal border to Kanaya kumari -indicating a migration? Another important tradition? Love,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL"<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Hi Vinita,> > I am new to astrology.... and know almost nothing aboutSanskrit.....except understand few basic words of Sanskrit. So I am inmuch less qualified to talk about it or our Sanskrit heritage.> > But regarding your comments about Kunti... representing earth /Prithvi etc ......may be I should put my ideas / imaginations ( I cannot cite references).> > To start with... Pritha might have come from Parthian (Greeks).....> > Prithivi / Prithvi... has been mentioned some places.... like Sita(daughter of earth)...... and in few examples, Prithivi has taken formof Cow too....The english word Geo (as in geography etc) and cow hassame root as Go/gow > > But I will tell about some Personality which has a confirmation fromnon-Sanskrit source too.. and that you might find it quite interesting.> > It is about NARAKASURA......> > As per Puranic source.... Narakasura was conceived by Prithvi afterimpregnation by Vishnu.. Later he became king..... became a tyrant...and was killed by Sri Krishna.... on Naraka Chaturdashi (the daybefore Dewali).> > Now the ethnic Bodo tribes of Assam (A Tibeto-Burmese Mongoloidgroup) refers to Narakasur as NARAKHA -DA (Da means - King orsomething like that)...one of their own. As per their myth /history... Narakha was a son of their king. Due to palaceconspiracy, his preganant mother fled to neighbouring kingdom ofMagadha. There Narakha was born, attended schooling and became aVishnu Bhakta. He was there for 14 yrs. Then he came back to his ownkingdom and later became a king. although initially a Vishnu Bhakta,he changed over time to mecome bitter critic of Vishnu and associatedreligion. He was later killed by some outside king.> > The inference I drew from this myth is.....> > Prithvi in Sanskrit references means ... local populace etc... Theword GO / GOW (cow) also means same thing when used from thatperspective. So, Gotra refers to a particular populace / tribe only...nothing to do with 'Cow-shed' as Leftist intellectual tries to portray.> > Son / daughter of earth...... means someone who is from thatpopulation..... So, Sita's story (Janak found Sita while ploughing(sexual act) .. the Prithvi (local populace) .. some Kshetra (Refer to Kshetraj Santan definition.... a son or daughter fromsomeone else's wife with due consent from the Husband).> > So, many other possible meanings / interpretations are possible.That is the charm of an Epic. It relates to everyones liking /knowledge level / taste etc... and becomes Timeless Classic.> > 'Hope the forum members enjoys this ..> > Regards> > Chakra > > > > > > [ ]> Friday, December 07, 2007 12:04 AM> > Science is science and Rgveda isRgveda....> > > > hi friends,> > in this forum we try to be scientific abt astrology...or that's the > impression i have drawn from some of the messages...but then i could > be wrong.> > meticulously shreenadh has been trying to piece together writings > from ancient texts to derive meanings. there are other knowledgable > persons who have been contributing in the same way.> > But then just as chandrahariji has said in the case of rgveda, > aren't shlokas from hora shastras, or upanishads, or other ancient > texts a little far removed from science? Or could one even venture > to say that are they amenable to scientific interpretation???? don't > we all have to use our imagination...to derive meanings...> > i forget the sanskrit word that shreenadh quoted for sun in > libra...which can mean both elephant driver and seller of liquor. > Yes, the hindi for elephant driver is mahout which as told in one of > the previous messages is derived from Sankrit just as liquor in > sanskrit perhaps is madhu.....> > "Madhu is also the Sanskrit origin of the English word mead, a > fermented beverage made from honey. > Madhu means nectar in Sanskrit and liquor in Tamil." wickipedia> > but then as somebody will tell me, information in wickipedia is > subject to corrections.> > Again thru imagination i was trying to derive a tenuous connection > between mahout and madhu...but then that could be laughable > too...!!!!> > What i have gathered from this forum is that we have a very rich > historical knowledge base but then there are distortions that have > occured in this on the following counts:> > 1. people re-writing the ancient texts and thereby adulterating them > (discussion with respect to rama's horoscope)> 2. people interpreting ancient texts to suit themselves (using their > own perceptions and sometimes imagination)> 3. people deriving different meanings from the same texts on account > of layers and layers of different meaning of sanskrit words.> > The last issue is very interesting. today there was an article in > the Speaking Tree in TOI which says Ved Vyasa personified the mother > earth as Kunti in mahabharata.In Sanskrit Kum-ti means earth. > Kunti's other name is Pritha meaning Prithvi.> > "Life originated on earath with the help of sun's rays. Vegetation > was born. Karna literally means grain with chaff. He represents > seed, the essence of the vegetable kingdom. But a seed cannot sprout > without water. Kunti placed the child in a basket in the waters of > the river Aswa...."> > There are many such parallels drawn in this article which concludes > in a predictable way:> > "The above interpretation merely seeks to draw attention to the > importance of all aspects of the environment for as human beings we > have within us elements of all that exists outside of us. The earth > (environmenet) and its inhabitants therefore need to live in mutual > harmony".> > Science and Rgveda may be two ends of the spectrum, but if the akar > of god is round...they should meet somewhere;)> > The limited point i was trying to make is that on this forum where > discussions are encouragaed to have their origins in ancient indian > texts, sankrit shlokas are used to clinch arguments, and a > scientific and systematic approach is encouraged, what if the basis > of all this is shifting sand????> > At a more personal level i hold our ancient knowledge base in great > awe and respect....but it is its interpretation (where imagination > may often be used) that leaves me somewhat confused. But then i also > love it when imagination takes flights into the clouds....> > Somebody today e-mailed to me a message regarding the quirks of > English language. The quirks of Sanskrit may not be dissimilar to > this.> > Having said all this let me also confess that i am the least > qualified to talk abt saskrit and would like to enroll in nursery > class to learn this beautiful language. i also feel a little > diffident these days to write anything on this knowledgable forum > having committed grave errors in calling "dhai akshar" dhai "words" :> (:( and counting three years as 13 years (((((....apart from > being just a beginner in learning the letter A of astrology. Yes i > do need to enroll in nursery class once again and not just for > sanskrit.....> > Regards and best wishes,> vinita> > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. Theinformation contained in this electronic message and any attachmentsto this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s)and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information.If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate,distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediatelyand destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.