Ayanamsa verification and Over beck

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Dear Maniv ji,==>> Note that a group member has recently posted birth data for his son and the > completion date of his studies: this may act as a useful discussion point in the > context of ayanamsa.<== The data provided by a member is not something new - in our daily life (if one is an astrologer) we get neumerous data to verify it ourselves - so the single data provided by a member has nothing in special and in no way unique. Add to it the fact that we are no way sure about the data he provided, and also the fact that he is not among one of the active members; plus the data is of his own son. What do you judge out of it? Any way as you suggest any of the active members if they are interested can use that data too (similar to the numerous data they encounter in their daily life) to check the validity of the ayanamsa and year length to be followed - but that single data DOES NOT proves a thing - due to the reasons listed above. ==>> I am not able to access Overbecks work at the moment, but from what I > recall, Chandra Hari ayanamsa was included in his pool of variables. > I shall verify this when I get a chance. <== Don't wait for a 'chance' - simply download the file from the group file section and verify. What I found is the following statement "8 Chandra-Hiri PC -24 40 43 233AD 16 Sag10" which anyway DOES NOT seems to be of Chandra Hari because all the values are WRONG. Hope this helps. ==>> However, I value the efforts to link empirical quantitative analysis > to test ayanamsa, and hope that similar studies can be carried out to > test 'theoretical' jyotish principles.<== Yes, me too. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "maniv_pathak" <maniv_pathak wrote:>> Sreenadhji> > I value your judgement that only Chandra Hari ayanamsa has given you > accurate results, and am open to its validity. However, in my > experiments thus far I have found it to be less reliable than Lahiri, > but more reliable than Raman. Note that a group member has recently > posted birth data for his son and the completion date of his studies: > this may act as a useful discussion point in the context of ayanamsa.> > I am not able to access Overbecks work at the moment, but from what I > recall, Chandra Hari ayanamsa was included in his pool of variables. > I shall verify this when I get a chance. However, as with all > statistical studies, the configuration or specification of the > parameters/tests/data sources etc used in the model must be robust to > avoid misleading results. > > This work used the Moon's nakshatra as the main measure, which is > probably too general. If the true ayanamsa is not Lahiri (or > something close) then the implications for the Jyotish community are > huge. The fact that the majority achieve reasonable results with > Lahiri in itself indicates that the results of this study are > inconsistent with reality, and adjustments need to made to ensure > that the model is not misspecified.> > However, I value the efforts to link empirical quantitative analysis > to test ayanamsa, and hope that similar studies can be carried out to > test 'theoretical' jyotish principles.> > Maniv> > > > > > -- In , "Sreenadh" > sreesog@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Maniv ji,> > Please note the following points -> > * I use Chandra hari Ayanamsa with Vimsottari dasa and year > length of> > 360 days Savana year - strictly as suggested by the classics [so > don't> > ask me - what is the logic behind ] This satisfies my conditions > and> > gives me dependable results (actually this ONLY gives me dependable> > results!)> > * Overbeck was an active member in vedic astrology group and we > hand> > some private email conversations earlier, and currently he is a > member> > of this group.> > * The Overbeck's document DIDN'T tested Chandra Hari's ayanamsa.> > * His document provides the following statement as well -> > "Curiously,the most popular of all of the ayanamsas Lahiri did > poorly in> > all of the tests, falling in the 2nd half of all tested 9 out of 12> > cases. If there is a true ayanamsa, it is not a part of this test> > group."> > Of course I agree to your statement -> > ==>> > > and maybe the statisticians among us can pursue something similar,> > > but with different parameters?> > <==> > Yes, may be there is a possibility.> > Note: The research file provided by Overbeck ji is uploaded in > the> > files section of the gorup and can be accessed from :> > > Articles%> 20\> > and%20E-books/AyanStat.pdf> > > <Articles> %2\> > 0and%20E-books/AyanStat.pdf>> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "maniv_pathak"> > <maniv_pathak@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadh> > >> > > It is interesting to note that you use Chandra Hari Ayanamsa.> > >> > > I have been experimenting with this, as well as other ayanamsas, > and> > > so far Lahiri seems to be the most accurate. There is of course > much> > > more work to be done before placing too much confidence in any> > > particular ayanamsa.> > >> > > An impressive piece of statistical research can be found here:> > >> > > home.valornet.com/overbeck/AyanStat.pdf> > >> > > and maybe the statisticians among us can pursue something similar,> > > but with different parameters?> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > Maniv> > > , "Sreenadh"> > > sreesog@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > Let us go through some of the charts presented in the group > recently> > > > ?> > > >> > > > Ayanamsa: True Ayanamsa of CHari; Year length=360 days Savana > year;> > > >> > > > Dasa = Vimsottari> > > >> > > > 1) 29 Apr 1959@ PM; New Delhi; India> > > >> > > > Time of death not given; Dasa-Antara intimated = Ju/Ra> > > >> > > > House : Planets : Navamsa> > > >> > > > Lagna (Sagittarius) :As-(Sa) :Me-Me> > > >> > > > 2H : Mo : -> > > >> > > > 3H : Gk :-> > > >> > > > 4H : Ke-Me :Ma-Gk> > > >> > > > 5H : Su : Mo-As> > > >> > > > 6H : Ve : -> > > >> > > > 7H : Ma : Ra> > > >> > > > 8H : - : (Sa)> > > >> > > > 9H : - : (Ju)-Ve-> > > Su> > > >> > > > 10H : Ra : -> > > >> > > > 11H : - :-> > > >> > > > 12H : (Ju) :-> > > >> > > > Event : Divorce in 2005; No job, no money, no family life - > during> > > > 2005-2008> > > >> > > > Points to note ?> > > >> > > > * Retrograde Ju in 12th from natal lagna ? indicating> > > > divorce> > > > * Mars in 7th from lagna ? indicating divorce> > > > * Agni-Maruta yoga in 7th with Mars in 7th aspected by> > > Saturn> > > > from lagna ?indicting divorce> > > >> > > > Result: Divorce in Ju/Ma Vimsottari dasa> > > >> > > > * Ra in 10H and only malefics are present in all the> > > Kendras of> > > > Rahu in 10th; 10th lord debilitated but aspects 10th ;> > > Indicating> > > > that Rahu dasa will give good results but, in the dasa of enemy> > > planets> > > > Rahu antara would be catastrophic> > > > * As per classics, for Men Ju-Ra dasa sandhi would be> > > > catastrophic providing marriage related problems and financial> > > > problems, since the junction antaras are of malefics. The> > > result> > > > fructified in this chart.> > > > * Jupiter dasa is running and the antra is of Rahu in> > > 10th ;> > > > both are enimical to each other.> > > >> > > > Result: Loss of money, income, job less ness, family collapse.> > > >> > > > 2) 31 Jan 1948@ PM; Guntur; India;> > > >> > > > Event: Wife died in Accident on 6 May 1996> > > >> > > > House : Planets : Navamsa> > > >> > > > Lagna (Gemini) :As :-> > > >> > > > 2H : (Sa) : (Ma)> > > >> > > > 3H : (Ma) :-> > > >> > > > 4H : Mo :Mo> > > >> > > > 5H : Ke : -> > > >> > > > 6H : Ju : Ra-Me> > > >> > > > 7H : - : -> > > >> > > > 8H : Su-Gk : -> > > >> > > > 9H : Ve-Me : (Sa)> > > >> > > > 10H : - : Ju> > > >> > > > 11H : Ra : Ve> > > >> > > > 12H : - : Su-Ke-As-> > > Gk> > > >> > > > Points to note ?> > > >> > > > * Dasa-Antara at the time of event : Sa/Su/Ma> > > > * The malefics Sun and Gk are present in 8th from Lagna ?> > > > indicating loss of wife> > > > * The above result is supposed to fructify at the Navamsa> > > lord> > > > of the 8th lord. 8H lord is Saturn and the navamsa lord of> > > Saturn> > > > is also Saturn> > > > * Mars is 6th lord (accident) and is placed in 7th from> > > the> > > > significator of wife Venus> > > >> > > > Result: The event occurred in the dasa of depositor of 8th > lord; In> > > the> > > > Antara of Sun the malefic in 8th placed with Gk; and in the> > > Paryantara> > > > of Mars the 6th lord placed in 7th from Venus.> > > >> > > > 3) 26 Sep 1969@ AM; Bangalore; India;> > > >> > > > Event: Death of husband on 2nd May 2007> > > >> > > > House : Planets : Navamsa> > > >> > > > Lagna (Gemini) :As-Gk :Mo-Gk> > > >> > > > 2H : - : Ke> > > >> > > > 3H : Ma :-> > > >> > > > 4H : - :-> > > >> > > > 5H : Ra : -> > > >> > > > 6H : Mo : Su> > > >> > > > 7H : Sa : -> > > >> > > > 8H :- : (Me)-Ra-> > > As> > > >> > > > 9H : - : Ju-Ve-Ma> > > >> > > > 10H : - : -> > > >> > > > 11H : Ve-Ke : (Sa)> > > >> > > > 12H : (Me)-Ju-Su : -> > > >> > > > Points to note ?> > > >> > > > * The Dasa-Antara running at the time of event was Ve/Ra/Me> > > > * Venus is 8H lord both from Lagna and from Moon and is the> > > > depositor of Gk> > > > * Rahu is in 5th in the sign of Saturn and is supposed to> > > give> > > > the results of Saturn; The retrograde Saturn in turn is> > > debilitated> > > > in 7th house ? indicating lose of husband; Thus naturally Rahu> > > > is not auspicious here regarding married life.> > > > * Considering Gk as the malefic in 8th from Moon, any> > > malefic> > > > effect (here Gk pointing to abnormal death) should take effect> > > in> > > > the Dasa or Antara of the depositor of 8th lord's navamsa ?> > > > which happen to be Mercury.> > > > * 6th lord from Moon is placed in 7th ? another indicator> > > of> > > > loss of husband; and here the result could fructify through> > > Sun the> > > > 6th lord in 7th or through retrograde Mercury placed along with> > > > this malefic.> > > > * Also note that in 8th (house of death) from Natal lagna> > > (which> > > > happen to be a sign of Venus), the navamsa of Lagna, Mercury and> > > Rahu> > > > are placed together. Rahu providing the effects of Saturn, and> > > > Mercury that of Sun, and the As navamsa that of Venus and> > > being 8th> > > > house is it naturally explains the death of husband happened in> > > > Ve/Ra/Me> > > >> > > > 4) 26 Jan 1953 @ 3.08 AM, Colombo, Srilanka> > > >> > > > Event: Death of husband in Ju/Ra> > > >> > > > * Whether it is Ju/Ra or Ju/Ma (as per Ayanamsa change) ?> > > > difficult locate or predict the event. The combination must be> > > more> > > > related to and reflected by the chart of the husband itself.> > > Not> > > > much of a clear indication here regarding the event.> > > > The only point that could be easily noticed is that ? 2nd lord> > > > went to 6th house indicating loss of family life with husband.> > > Mars> > > > in 4H with Venus could be another indicator. Note the navamsa of> > > Mars in> > > > 7th from lagna along with Moon in 7th as well. So the event> > > must> > > > have happened in Ju/Ma rather than Ju/Ra. Anyway the event is> > > not> > > > specially visible from this chart and can't be predicted prior > hand> > > > due to lack of clear indicators. Regards,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > , "renunw" > <renunw@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Krishna ji,> > > > >> > > > > This is also a case of Jupiter in 12H. But Jupiter dasa has no> > > > > connection to the time of death.> > > > >> > > > > Saturn in 7H is debilitated + retrograde. So I suppose this> > > afflicts> > > > > 7H. Also 7HL Mars is aspected by R Saturn. Venus is also > afflicted> > > > > by Rahu-Ketu axis.> > > > >> > > > > The running dasa was Venus/Rahu/Venus. Hmm..I am stuck > > > > >> > > > > Let us have your analysis.> > > > >> > > > > blessings> > > > >> > > > > Renu> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In , Krishnamurthy> > > > > Seetharama krishna_1998@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Pavitha,> > > > > >> > > > > > Please do indicate the place of birth. Also, it would be> > > helpful> > > > > if you could give the date when she lost her husband.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > Krishna> > > > > >> > > > > > pavitha dinesh greatness2nil@ wrote:> > > > > > hello renuji,my sisters birthdata is 26/9/1969,time of> > > > > birth is 9,26a,m,can this help others also> > > > > >> > > > > > renunw renunw@ wrote: Dear Pavitha ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Sorry to hear about your sister's loss. Would you mind > posting> > > > > your> > > > > > sister's birth data to the forum. Thanks...> > > > > >> > > > > > blessings> > > > > >> > > > > > Renu> > > > > >> > > > > > -- In , pavitha > dinesh> > > > > > <greatness2nil@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > hello to all,i want to know the saturn in 7t house from > lagna> > > > > > causes the death of spouse,becoz my sister lost her husband > in> > > her> > > > > > natal chart saturn is in 7th house,please answer thankyou> > > everybody> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here > to> > > > > know how.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>