Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. Examples 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. M.V.Suresh From: r_vani61Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma.With regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest > wrote: thats right... Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan > wrote: Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would never be convinced.This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.Regards,Souvik Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 The physicists have taken this similarity very seriously, which has been discussed at length by Fritjof Capra in his book Tao of physics. However, I understand from some of my scientific friends that all the research that goes on in western world usually say on Vedic aspects is usually reported but most of it never reaches India. For eg., the Germans have done and are doing commendable work on these aspects. Wait till you hear a defence patent on the word Siva ! kishore patnaik On 1/11/08, M.V. Suresh <mvsureshbaroda wrote: > Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, > place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to > the modern context. > > Examples > 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country > , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main > profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock > cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. > > 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own > vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock > carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti > car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say > that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? > > 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be > very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either > be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No > doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that > the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The > person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like > our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of > paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA > / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. > > 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, > parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will > get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is > consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place > outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only > one. > > 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be > far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will > be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes > abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam > is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it > prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. > > 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very > essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a > set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be > drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation > just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But > we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter > guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. > > 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he > can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational > explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. > > M.V.Suresh > > > : r_vani61: > Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views > of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? > > > > > Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. > Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known > and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of > this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for > this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming > that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, > rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who > do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma.With > regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > > > > thats right... > > Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give > guarentee... > > If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for > longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools > but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people > ? > > Jagdish > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > > Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other > than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven > wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would > never be convinced.This is pretty much evident from the BBC > link.Regards,Souvik > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > _______________ > Tried the new MSN Messenger? It's cool! Download now. > http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Thank you, Sreeram ji.Regards,D.Ramakrishnansreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: Dear Ramakrishnanji, People who believe require NO proof, who do not believe...any amount of proof will not be sufficient......we have seen in past the popular atheist like Arvind Kovoor of Sri Lanka, failed to give the prize money, when it was proved to his satisfaction......on astrology. There are many like that......it has been debated many times....hence, it is immaterial what other things....keep focussed on your faiths & beliefs.... With regards, Sreeram , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Sirs, > I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma. > With regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Sureshji,Thank you very much for the explanations in detail.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan."M.V. Suresh" <mvsureshbaroda wrote: Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. Examples 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. M.V.Suresh From: r_vani61 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma.With regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest > wrote: thats right... Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan > wrote: Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would never be convinced.This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.Regards,Souvik Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Jagdish, Every civilization that has thrived on this planet has shown a tendency of evolution. First the basic needs have to be fulfilled. In the stone-age if one spoke philosophy, one would probably remain hungry and not got a share of the communal meat. When the " Basic " needs of survival are fulfilled, then you look to improve your life. Industries, Science, Technology comes into the picture. You have posed a very strong point here. Let me pose the same point to you in a different way. You and a few others have met with an accident (God forbid) and hanging on a birdge. An old lady beside you couldn't hold on and fell. She barely managed to hold on to your feet and she did so to survive. You on the other hand is unable to bear her weight and yours on your strong arms and you know the " ONLY " possible way you can survive is to let the lady go. To survive, you will do so. However, does that mean that you will teach your children to kill old ladies? No, you won't. Situations change humans and lives. Today you say people dont ask their children to be astrologers. The reason is that the world thinks so and for your children to survive in the global competition around they need skills which are globally accepted. Three decades from today how many parents wanted their children to be nurses? However, today since there is such a demand of nurses in the developed nations of the world, nursing is a full-fleged career which allows people to go to developed nations and lead a better life. The rules of society change and with it does the public opinion. This is a long long discussion Regards, Souvik , Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan > > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... > > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? > > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology is not considered science and does not have much importannce among people. > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology. > > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids... > > > Thanks > > Jagdish > > > > > > " M.V. Suresh " <mvsureshbaroda wrote: > Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. > > Examples > > 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. > > 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? > > 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. > > 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. > > 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. > > 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. > > 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. > > M.V.Suresh > > > > > > > r_vani61 > Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 > Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? > > Dear Sirs, > I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma. > With regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > thats right... > > Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... > > If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? > > Jagdish > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one > other than themselves is responsible for their actions. > Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific > community today, they would never be convinced. > This is pretty much evident from the BBC link. > > Regards, > > Souvik > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here. > Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Jagdish, I will respond with my very limited abilities to the first part of your question. Yes, you are correct. Powerful rules the powerless. Powerful sets the rule, and the powerless obeys. Power however transfers with time. This is global politics and global socio-economic functioning of the world-way way too complex a topic to discuss here. However, here too an individual has a choice. Do you remember the name of the priest that ordered the arrest of Galileo? Perhaps not. But do you know Galileo? Sure you do. Do you remember the wealthy zamindar who ordered men to rampage Raja Ram Mohan Roy's home for trying to stop sati pratha? Perhaps you don't. But have you heard about Raja Ram Mohan Roy? Yes you have. There springs out a few individuals, out of this hopeless mass of humanity who loves following the trend, a very few I must add those who are trend setters. They suffer greatly in life but they create history. In the example I told you about you hanging in the bus dying to survive-thats all of us saying " What the hell are you trying to make sense out of something as nonsense as astrology " or " What a loser you are trying to validate something so nonsense and utter bullshit as astrology " . This is easy. We have the world's support-and not only the world's support but the world's educated masses support. We abuse it and we lift our collars among the masses and say " Yes sir, I too hate Indians for being such idiots in believing in such bullshit " and Lo! you are in the elite club!! So, thats what instinct tells us to do. Go with the powerful. Shun off the old lady hanging on to us. Thats what most of us would do to survive!! That I agree. However, the world wouldn't have survived without choices. There is a choice, another path-as rare as it sounds, it exists. Even if none go thru it, it exists. What if you struggled to hold the lady, risking your own life, reaching out to her and helping her to reach safe land on the hanging bus and making her survive. Yes, you could lose your life in the process and hers. Yes, I know it is utter stupidity to even think about it..but what if? And if you made it..then what?? You are a HERO!! Well some few who didn't give up to the " Powerful " , be it " Situations " or " Circumstances " or " Countries " , made history. Astrology is yet to prove it to such a global level. Now, coming to the second part of your comment: " I am doing this and can i get the result ? I have put 100% in this action... " then astrology really cant say anything.. This relates to the eternal debate of how much free will we have in the world of astrology. Trust me friend, I have been around in the cyber-astro world from 1998 and I have seen forums fallen with mutual fights over this topic. So for this issue, mums the word for me. I shall be silent. Regards, Souvik , Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > > Very beautiful .... you made me speechless... > > I can see one thing " Situations " and " Circumstances " and " Countries " are way stronger and powerful than astrology. Its human who is making the trend. And astrology has to follow that trend and develop itself to be up-to-date with the trend. > > And i believe that astrology can give you a broad picture. And people feel mesmerized by this broad picture. Astrology does better in explaining the mindset and behaviour of native or personality of native. But when you ask something like... " I am doing this and can i get the result ? I have put 100% in this action... " then astrology really cant say anything.. > > Thanks > > Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > Dear Jagdish, > > Every civilization that has thrived on this planet has shown a > tendency of evolution. > > First the basic needs have to be fulfilled. In the stone-age if one > spoke philosophy, one would probably remain hungry and not got a > share of the communal meat. > > When the " Basic " needs of survival are fulfilled, then you look to > improve your life. > > Industries, Science, Technology comes into the picture. > > You have posed a very strong point here. > > Let me pose the same point to you in a different way. > > You and a few others have met with an accident (God forbid) and > hanging on a birdge. > An old lady beside you couldn't hold on and fell. She barely managed > to hold on to your feet and she did so to survive. > You on the other hand is unable to bear her weight and yours on your > strong arms and you know the " ONLY " possible way you can survive is > to let the lady go. > To survive, you will do so. > > However, does that mean that you will teach your children to kill old > ladies? > > No, you won't. > > Situations change humans and lives. > > Today you say people dont ask their children to be astrologers. The > reason is that the world thinks so and for your children to survive > in the global competition around they need skills which are globally > accepted. > > Three decades from today how many parents wanted their children to be > nurses? However, today since there is such a demand of nurses in the > developed nations of the world, nursing is a full-fleged career which > allows people to go to developed nations and lead a better life. > > The rules of society change and with it does the public opinion. > > This is a long long discussion > > Regards, > > Souvik > > , Prathamesn Chawan > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan > > > > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible > accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the > below... > > > > > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? > > > > > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why > astrology is not considered science and does not have much > importannce among people. > > > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not > from astrology. > > > > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to > astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then > you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont > want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids... > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > " M.V. Suresh " <mvsureshbaroda@> wrote: > > Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. > The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in > interpretation as relevant to the modern context. > > > > Examples > > > > 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of > the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same > today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of > transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before > puberty/adolescence. > > > > 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person > will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple > of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an > autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes > place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a > fiat? > > > > 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person > will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that > he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a > PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient > system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental > arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but > still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were > illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the > fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS > and still could be good in arithmetic. > > > > 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one > marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice > meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient > system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's > context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex > with many partners but marry only one. > > > > 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the > person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till > they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a > very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily > duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can > do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents > stay in oldage homes. > > > > 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very > essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out > of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of > error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense > in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a > science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect > to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus > becomes the very essence of Prasna. > > > > 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has > faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called > rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an > astrologer to think otherwise. > > > > M.V.Suresh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r_vani61@ > > Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 > > Re: Views of some around the > world: Is astrology just science fiction? > > > > Dear Sirs, > > I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. > Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam > and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the > practitioners of this science are not true or the details like > time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people > with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That > will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a > laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any > respect for Truth/Dharma. > > With regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > thats right... > > > > Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not > give guarentee... > > > > If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away > from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology > is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really > limited to handful of people ? > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan@> wrote: > > Majority of the modern and developed world today believes > that no one > > other than themselves is responsible for their actions. > > Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the > scientific > > community today, they would never be convinced. > > This is pretty much evident from the BBC link. > > > > Regards, > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it > now! > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Sri. Jagdish, This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of the patient and invokes the divine before administering further treatment. And this works. It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit, the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the respect. Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit vidwans are treated in our country. M.V.Suresh From: upaoakcrestDate: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology just science fiction? One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology is not considered science and does not have much importannce among people. AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology. Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids... Thanks Jagdish "M.V. Suresh" <mvsureshbaroda (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. Examples1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. M.V.Suresh From: r_vani61 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma.With regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest > wrote: thats right... Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan > wrote: Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would never be convinced.This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.Regards,Souvik Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Members, Germany's education ministry has a separate division for Sanskrit for many decades now. USA has a team of astros working on many astrological parameters with "scientific temper" as we call it now. Recently came through a news article in a respected newspaper where the Islam teaching Madarasas have decided to teach Sanskrit in their curriculum for their own reasons. Western society still trying to decipher how Hinduism has survived, society is able to show its resilence inspite of cultural onslaught, various mathematical theories on Egyptian pyramids....etc....yet all this is NOT convincing to likes of Chawan .... Let us NOT waste time in trying to apease likes of Jagdish, whose past-time appears to be raking up mullahs.......but run to nearest astrologer when time comes....the best and matured way to deal or rebuff with such people is to ignore their messages....... If Mr. Jagdish is not getting any benefit in Astrology { as he himself said it}, would request him to answer what is he doing in this group by being a member.....?? Man you are wasting yours and also ours by your presence here......!!! Trust Mr. Jagdish read the message on the homepage....that this group is to discuss astrology, NOT to argue....how astrology can give benefits.....!! Decide your membership status on your own.....rather than giving advices to where to send our children to ...!! You are NO judge to comment on our credentials....{ refer your comments ....cheats / fakes..} I would also request members to choose whom you are replying to .......i.e. to a sensible person or a to radicals playing to galleries or illogical minds......for any response would only increase their adrenaline levels........ Being a endless debate.....would request members to limit their posting on this subject..... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , "M.V. Suresh" <mvsureshbaroda wrote:>> Dear Sri. Jagdish,> > This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. > Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of the patient and invokes the divine before administering further treatment. And this works.> It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit, the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the respect.> > Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit vidwans are treated in our country.> > M.V.Suresh> > > : upaoakcrest: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology just science fiction? > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan> > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below...> > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? > > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology is not considered science and does not have much importannce among people. > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology.> > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids...> > > Thanks> > Jagdish> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Well friend, Don't you think that astrologers have brought upon themselves the treatment they are getting from the society/Govt.Am sure you must be aware about the manner in which pro astrologers are fleecing the public by prescribing false costly poojas,giving cheap gems at exorbitant rates and many other similar malpractices.Just to give one example;the other day i met a girl say about 30 years old who had gone to a reputed pro astrologer here in Pune.The girl with tears in her eyes showed me a moonstone and a coral of a very poor quality which the astrologer had passed on to her for as much as 50000 Rupees.The two stones together in my opinion could not have had a market price of more than 800 Rupees and while telling this to the girl i asked her whether she was not aware of the market value of these gems.The girl replied that she was aware of the market price but still purchased the gems because the astrologer told her that he had energised the gems by performing big poojas on them everyday which costed him a lot and the gems were sure to give results.The girl further said that she was asking me only because nothing good had happened to her even though she had been wearing the gems for 6 months now.This is not an isolated example.I know of many ppl who were told to do poojas for 30000 Rupees or more for the nivaran of Kalsarpa Dosha,when there was no kal sarpa dosha in the horoscope.In fact,many years ago an astrologer/tantrik tried to cheat me of a lot of money for purchasing some Mala which would not be worth more than 50 Rupees in the market.In his attempt to sell the mala the idiot went to the extent of telling me that i am going to die soon and only that mala could protect me.Now how can such behaviour be accepted.And it is not just some but almost 85 percent of pro astrologers indulge in these practices.They exploit the weaknesses of their clients in the process behaving like cheats,exploiters charlatans etc rather than the divine persons their clients think them to be.This has obviously disappointed most ppl with astrology and astrologers.As a consequence very very few ppl have a good word to say about the tribe of astrologers.So how do u expect any Govt to promote such a class of ppl.In my opinion it is the duty of every good astrologer to tell the public that he can only tell what is likely to happen and not change somebody's destiny.The public too has to realise that ppl who can't change their own destiny for the better cannnot change the destiny of others.It is only when such realisation comes to the public,will the fair name of astrology come up again. RKOn Jan 12, 2008 7:55 AM, M.V. Suresh < mvsureshbaroda wrote: Dear Sri. Jagdish, This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of the patient and invokes the divine before administering further treatment. And this works. It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit, the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the respect. Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit vidwans are treated in our country. M.V.Suresh From: upaoakcrest Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology just science fiction? One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology is not considered science and does not have much importannce among people. AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology. Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids... Thanks Jagdish " M.V. Suresh " <mvsureshbaroda wrote: Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. Examples1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. M.V.Suresh From: r_vani61Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma. With regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: thats right... Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would never be convinced. This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.Regards,Souvik Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Members, Sometime back a Japanese scientist conducted a series of experiments on water now published in his book "The Hidden messages of Water Signs" written by Dr. Masaru Emoto {you may find the details on www.lightonVedic Astrology.com }, where in his scientific experiements concluded that polluted water crystals getting transformed into pure, through the power of vedic mantras......this is a repeation of the same scientific experiments NASA conducted {not sure if NASA or other labs...} on Sound experiements, where using Laplace forms, the sound vibrations created the divine forms....i.e. chanting mantras intended for Lord Ganesha created a "Lord Ganesha Form"...so on so forth..... Then read the book "The Secret life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird & how the "7-Chakras" get related.... Now back to astrology, see how the planets have been linked to specific Trees in our vedic sciences....planets are assigned definite colors....there is big business in western world on Color therapy or use of colors in interior decoration...etc... Why does our great westerners who never knew anything about vedic astrology, yet in their wisdom choose Black color for lawyers & judges ?? We knew it that Saturn is the Judgement...and is represented by Black color..... Were we not using it in our Lord Shani Maharaj pujas...etc..?? Earlier, we were using ordinary cowdung manure.....which was supposed to be primitive fertilizer....scientific temper told it is good to use - sulphates & phosphates,.....then they also became dated, scientific world revised it to - Nitrogeneous fertilizers - we know it as Urea,.....now this also found to be damaging the soil & contributing it to Global Warming....now Organic farming is the latest buzz word....worldover....Now tell me traditional wisdom in India for ages has been to use simple cowdung...after 60 yrs...we are back to square one.....{ yet it is a great scientific journey...."science"... realizaton....we all got benefited....monetarily....} We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched them....and concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery Channel program where a "tribal spiritual person" ...NON eating .....was subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt. job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on "Solar Energy" { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}..... Such talents, belying the so called science.....surely science is evolving...would take ages before it reaches what our rishis have written it .....in short Science is learning the hardway.... India has more secret skills & techniques....but for the qualified few..... Now understand why river Ganges during the "good days"....was a miracle water for treating diseases.....similarly other holy rivers... { we normally use the word HOLY to rivers for specific valid reasons} for temples & prayers are all conducted on river fronts....with few people going to temples or say more to beer pubs or bars...the holyness of such rivers has decreased over the period of time.... Humor - Bachelors generally visit temples / churches..etc. for perspective girl friends or partners.....not for any sincerity in praying to God..... { this is a common knowledge} All the above by Westerners...yet we love to bashing our culture & heritage...etc....... The above knowledge comes after years of reading, probing, understanding, assimilating..etc....today the ignorant members are getting to this.....in one posting........we write it so that the interested members in lesser age group read this and revive the traditional beliefs......a faint ray of hope to people like me..... Children get to know about culture, values...through celebration of various events / festivals and in the processes getting to now the underlying truth behind such festivals...etc.. Surely, ...GUESS ....Mr. Jagdish or Mr. Chawan....in their respective families....must never had this education in their childhood.....now trying to learn the basics...through this postings....i.e. hardway.....by this strong rebuttals.......or getting humbled....!! An elderly lady {never known her } in a friendly chat, revealed that she reads Shiva Puran regularly....she expected appreciation in return from me ...{she herself candidly admitted}....which I did not....because being used to "Guerilla Techniques" in getting a reading....!!.....few lines later.....she gave few findings on Shiva Puran .....which were interesting....{known to me for having read them during my childhood days under direct feet of Swami Chinmayananda}....{still not yielded to it....}...for those could have also been through interaction with Panditjis... {those Shiva Puran notes were NOT from Internet material ....for they were finer/quality findings}.....later few hrs. later...she narratted her mother taking them to Lord Murugan temples..etc.....that too a self professed Punjabi lady.....beyond my belief ....for I also lived in Punjab -Amristar, Jalandhar & Ludhiana... Moral of above para: Through the chat, I did get convinced of her religious background, considering her background, a great/commendable thing & rare from a Punjabi background - "She expected a acknowledgement / pat on that..." Going to temples/church/...is your daily routine....do not expect someone to compliment it....!! Five basic elements of Hinduism....... Surely, members like Mr. Jadgish or Mr. Chawan +.....etc.....want results....on a platter without toiling....they are "armchair" or couch potatoes.....do nothing & believe nothing...... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , "M.V. Suresh" mvsureshbaroda@ wrote: Dear Sri. Jagdish,This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of the patient and invokes the divine before administering furthertreatment. And this works. It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit, the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the respect.Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskritvidwans are treated in our country. M.V.Suresh@: upaoakcrest@: Fri, 11 Jan 200808:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology justscience fiction? One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ?Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrologyis not considered science and does not have much importannce among people.AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology.Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologersto learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys arecheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass onthis divine knowledge to your kids...ThanksJagdish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Once while giving a speech a politician was cornered and abused. He was told that he is useless and unfit to be a leader. His simple answer was that he is not responsible for anything and that it the people who have elected him. By abusing me you are abusing the people. So my friend there are black moles in every field of the society. It is for you to identify them and ignore them. Even the Sun has black spots. If the lady was stupid enough to give 50,000 rupees, don't blame the astrologers. If one goes to the astrologers to change his fortune he is mad. Astrologers simply help a person to tide over his difficult times. All pooja etc. are a means for getting enough mental strength to tide over the difficult period. If after one year of Sade Sathi a person goes to the astrologer and does a pooja, he cannot simply wish away the remaining 6.5 years. It took seven and a half years for lord Shiva to tackle Sani. So Sir, Let us look at the positives of the science rather than discuss a few individuals indulging in wrong practise. As I said the problem lies in interpretation in modern context and also in the general masses in the way they perceive astrology as a means to an end. M.V.Suresh From: rkbaqayaDate: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:44:18 +0530Re: Is astrology just science fiction? Well friend, Don't you think that astrologers have brought upon themselves the treatment they are getting from the society/Govt.Am sure you must be aware about the manner in which pro astrologers are fleecing the public by prescribing false costly poojas,giving cheap gems at exorbitant rates and many other similar malpractices.Just to give one example;the other day i met a girl say about 30 years old who had gone to a reputed pro astrologer here in Pune.The girl with tears in her eyes showed me a moonstone and a coral of a very poor quality which the astrologer had passed on to her for as much as 50000 Rupees.The two stones together in my opinion could not have had a market price of more than 800 Rupees and while telling this to the girl i asked her whether she was not aware of the market value of these gems.The girl replied that she was aware of the market price but still purchased the gems because the astrologer told her that he had energised the gems by performing big poojas on them everyday which costed him a lot and the gems were sure to give results.The girl further said that she was asking me only because nothing good had happened to her even though she had been wearing the gems for 6 months now.This is not an isolated example.I know of many ppl who were told to do poojas for 30000 Rupees or more for the nivaran of Kalsarpa Dosha,when there was no kal sarpa dosha in the horoscope.In fact,many years ago an astrologer/tantrik tried to cheat me of a lot of money for purchasing some Mala which would not be worth more than 50 Rupees in the market.In his attempt to sell the mala the idiot went to the extent of telling me that i am going to die soon and only that mala could protect me.Now how can such behaviour be accepted.And it is not just some but almost 85 percent of pro astrologers indulge in these practices.They exploit the weaknesses of their clients in the process behaving like cheats,exploiters charlatans etc rather than the divine persons their clients think them to be.This has obviously disappointed most ppl with astrology and astrologers.As a consequence very very few ppl have a good word to say about the tribe of astrologers.So how do u expect any Govt to promote such a class of ppl.In my opinion it is the duty of every good astrologer to tell the public that he can only tell what is likely to happen and not change somebody's destiny.The public too has to realise that ppl who can't change their own destiny for the better cannnot change the destiny of others.It is only when such realisation comes to the public,will the fair name of astrology come up again. RK On Jan 12, 2008 7:55 AM, M.V. Suresh < mvsureshbaroda (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Sri. Jagdish, This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of the patient and invokes the divine before administering further treatment. And this works. It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit, the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the respect. Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit vidwans are treated in our country. M.V.Suresh From: upaoakcrest Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology just science fiction? One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology is not considered science and does not have much importannce among people. AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from astrology. Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids... Thanks Jagdish "M.V. Suresh" <mvsureshbaroda (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. Examples1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. M.V.Suresh From: r_vani61 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Sirs, I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma. With regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest > wrote: thats right... Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? Jagdish Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan > wrote: Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one other than themselves is responsible for their actions.Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific community today, they would never be convinced. This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.Regards,Souvik Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! Fly HYD-BLR for Rs.499 Log on to MakeMyTrip! Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Dear Baqayaji, Well written....black sheep are there in every field of activity....a South Afican sports athlete was given a UK citizenship for she was expected to win Gold Medal in Olympics and improve UK's tally, represented Britain, did not perform to the expectations, possibly due to her muscle spasms..etc.....though she had few world records to her credit before Olympics ...later to be revealed few years down the lane...that she took drugs to enhance her performance....{ Do not remeber her name.....may be Zola or..something..} A UK Doctor, putting pig kidney...{kidney transplants}.....is another news.....Our own Indian weightlifters...were caught for doping by Govt. sponsored Russian Coach....{read again Govt. Sponsored Coach}.....again.....involvement of Sports medical laboratory under instructions from Sports ministry...in this entire episode....{ read this again....Govt. established Sports medical & analytical internationally accredited laboratory...} Sorry, tired of typing this stories.......if somebody can provide me secretarial service...would list 100's of such cases.........Want more proof, where all Govt. can fund & establish ?? Govt. can promote & fund, to increase Sanskrit language prenetration as it is trying to promote Urdu now for appeasing Vote Bank politics through free training...{hope you read advts in newspapers...} { repeat again - GOVT. funded Institutions....}....but non for Sanskrit. Second, establish an institution with three or more division - One for collecting rare sanskrit literature, Second, a team of scholars, to discuss, debate & conclude with some final derivations & standings , Third - a working team who would use the conclusions of Team-2, in their analysis..Fourth, this team provide feedback of Team-3 to Team-2 & revisit the conclusions as required. The above is relevant to Astrology. { Ofcourse, we have Jawarhar Lal Nehru University in New Delhi, which does this same activity - with primary intent to dig deep into the bottomless pit called Nehru's vision & socialism...for past 60 yrs...and do not know for how long they would continue to do....when all his policies have failed miserably....but we continue to do research....needless to say again...but for sake of repetition got to do it again - Read this again - A Govt. funded Educational primary Institution } Hope you understand the difference between the govt institutition & Govt. PRIMARY instition. If the "garal" { girl} you mentioned went to a qualified "Astrologer" who has qualified from a genunine institute like "Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan" {for I have this institute of many years since its inception in 1987 for my office was few yards away from it}, then surely she would NOT have been cheated the way she got. Further, there are govt. funded "GEM" testing laboratories in Jhandewala, New Delhi, people rarely use their services { considering the growing market, number of people buying, people interested in getting them tested...} I have recommended many "drop in chat members" to genuine qualified professional astros....NOT ONE went to them....!! { with my own personal gurantees to them...} further, say....professional astros may do biased readings to get better of you.... & your wallet....= is this NOT the same thing you get when you go to M/s Apollo Hospitals....or any other super speciality hospitals if you are ignorant...?? {Special Note: My job gives me enough money to sustain my family & help dozens others through my social & charity services...{record of 25+ yrs, contact M/s CRY -Child Relief & You, organization......I contribute to it under a different name...}...so do NOT think I have a "commission" interests...}.... People are ignorant & themselves to be blamed for approaching unscrupulous roadside astros.....I few times noticed a magnified life size advts. in New Delhi with titles "Diamond Medalist Astrologer"....till then I only heard of "Gold medalists"....later on little search.... & enquiries....learnt he is doing quite well....people are flocking him....similarly on websites..."World renowedWorld Famous"...etc.. when the kid or person next to his residence....does not know him...!!! If doing a simple pujas & wearing few gemstones....then Bill Gates would have done all that to come out of the Anti_Trust lawsuits...similarly Bill Clinton did NO pujas or bought any gemstones....when he was involved in the most degrading Monica Lewinsky scandal involving the President of USA....unheard till then.... { we in India, it becomes a Scandal if the Politician is NOT involved in any such incidents....!!!}...Similarly what special pujas did our Dr. Kalam did to become President of India ?? People get what they seek for....i.e. get fooled & cheated.....they deserve that.....!! Coming back on the concluding part of your email : Govt. having established institutions & channels can investigate such malpractices & punish them as per prevailing laws....is it not happening to Doctor profession now ?? { talking of only those quack doctors... & negligence cases....}...same logics can also be extended to Astrologers. Dear Baqayaji,.......previously practising this profession was illegal in UK.....till someone did this task of convincing the govt....now it is legal....do you who was behind this ?? 1) To expect Astrologer would change his or her destiny is incorrect and fallacy. 2) To expect Astrologer to know all about future i.e. like seeing video recording of future.....is another fallacy 3) I recall a knowlegeable astro, telling & cautioning me, that a elderly person in the age group of 52+ came to him...his 6HL dasha was running, {few more things are there...but for space....tyring to be brief } so he predicted bad periods....later few weeks later only to be told....that he got promotion....how....He appeared for an examination....and cleared it...so entitled to a promotion.... { the native did NOT tell he is appearing for examination, at the time of chart reading}....so the astrologer was wrong...!!...It is a point that amateur_astro knowledge that dasha of 6HL is good for competitions....!! Further, the astrologer could not think that at that age of 52 yrs...a govt servant can participate in some exams...etc.. for he was a panditji...lacked some govt. functioning knowledge... But the same native if he goes to a doctor, gives endless description of his pains / fever....for proper diagnosis... Who is to be blamed here....??... So, kindly do not drape cloths as per situtations.....have one consistent stand..right or wrong...change opinions as mind realizes things...... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , "Rup Krishen Baqaya" <rkbaqaya wrote:>> Well friend, Don't you think that astrologers have brought upon themselves> the treatment they are getting from the society/Govt.Am sure you must be> aware about the manner in which pro astrologers are fleecing the public by> prescribing false costly poojas,giving cheap gems at exorbitant rates and> many other similar malpractices.Just to give one example;the other day i met> a girl say about 30 years old who had gone to a reputed pro astrologer here> in Pune.The girl with tears in her eyes showed me a moonstone and a coral of> a very poor quality which the astrologer had passed on to her for as much as> 50000 Rupees.The two stones together in my opinion could not have had a> market price of more than 800 Rupees and while telling this to the girl i> asked her whether she was not aware of the market value of these> gems.Thegirl replied that she was aware of the market price but still> purchased the> gems because the astrologer told her that he had energised the gems by> performing big poojas on them everyday which costed him a lot and the gems> were sure to give results.The girl further said that she was asking me only> because nothing good had happened to her even though she had been wearing> the gems for 6 months now.This is not an isolated example.I know of many ppl> who were told to do poojas for 30000 Rupees or more for the nivaran of> Kalsarpa Dosha,when there was no kal sarpa dosha in the> horoscope.Infact,many years ago an astrologer/tantrik tried to cheat> me of a lot of money for purchasing some Mala which would not be worth more than 50 Rupees in the market.In his attempt to sell the mala the idiot went to the extent> of telling me that i am going to die soon and only that mala could protect> me.Now how can such behaviour be accepted.And it is not just some but almost> 85 percent of pro astrologers indulge in these practices.They exploit the> weaknesses of their clients in the process behaving like cheats,exploiters> charlatans etc rather than the divine persons their clients think them to> be.This has obviously disappointed most ppl with astrology and> astrologers.As a consequence very very few ppl have a good word to say about> the tribe of astrologers.So how do u expect any Govt to promote such a> class of ppl.In my opinion it is the duty of every good astrologer to tell> the public that he can only tell what is likely to happen and not change> somebody's destiny.The public too has to realise that ppl who can't change> their own destiny for the better cannnot change the destiny of others.It is> only when such realisation comes to the public,will the fair name of> astrology come up again. RK> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Chiranjiv & Baqaya, That was a good example & experience......thank you for sharing that incident.....unless people get those "shocks", people do not believe......still there are few people like you narrated....do NOT go that "BLACK Tongue" astrologer......!!! Mr. Baqaya you also might have enough incident to share like that......so why speak of those roadside stuff ?? Surely you are NOT one of them......when you say....we astros ourselves brought this situation .....??? NO one in this group to my knowledge.....has indulged in such activities......till date......if any, kindly keep me posted offline...... As a policy for that very reason we have regularly REJECT/DELETE any reading requests + Astros promoting their own self interests i.e. seeking clients with eye catching "signatures" like Mr. Haresh Nathani, all such people either given the groups rules once again + also cautioned them of being banned in the group...... should they continue violating the self laid norms..... We do know that some of them would come back in a different Avatar, but proving their credentials that I am HE !! is an uphill task...... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Dear Mr Baqaya, Sorry to hear your experiences. I have many "flaws" in my horoscope but do not wear any gemstones etc.suggested by many astrologers ( different stones at different times by diff people). You either get fatalistic or learn a deeper meaning of life by learning about astrology. That deeper meaning comes after you get no definitive answer even from astrology. This is like a stop to get a clue in the journey of life. True there are some people who are immersed with almost childlike enthusiasm (like in this forum) in astrology but, then to each his own. I knew an astrologer who was eccentric. He was living in almost poverty. One day a self made man who had just got "religious" came in his contact and started arguing about how his Guruji had explained astrology was humbug etc. ( maybe guruji was warning them against being fatalist ) Everyman has an ego (2nd lrd in 2nd house is not the only one). The astrologer took a last puff on his bidi and told him he would like to see his horoscope. Since nobody carries their kundli a date was arranged and the two met at a common friends place. the astrologer told the non-believer that his wife would die by poison and he would live his life as a widower. The woman was bitten by a snake while on atrip to the native village. The man was so horrified that he requested his friend not to call the black tongued astrologer whenever he was present. So some people see it is natural (sahaj), some people are shocked into belief. There are some in this forum who can do that but that is nit why they are online. Chiranjiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 My dear friend, Why do u think this is roadside stuff.It is most definitely not.Or man, do u think that anything u don't like is roadside stuff.Probably u failed to understand the context in which this post was written.It was written to highlight the reasons as to why astrology could not become popular with the ppl at large.Why do u want to limit urself to the group only.The world does not end at the group.I hardly care for the group.I have created and deleted bigger groups than this at will.We astros was said to mention about astros as a community.And better mind ur language.Learn to speak with proper manners to ppl who are much elder and senior in every way to you. Rup On Jan 12, 2008 4:24 PM, sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: Dear Chiranjiv & Baqaya, That was a good example & experience......thank you for sharing that incident.....unless people get those " shocks " , people do not believe......still there are few people like you narrated....do NOT go that " BLACK Tongue " astrologer......!!! Mr. Baqaya you also might have enough incident to share like that......so why speak of those roadside stuff ?? Surely you are NOT one of them......when you say....we astros ourselves brought this situation .....??? NO one in this group to my knowledge.....has indulged in such activities......till date......if any, kindly keep me posted offline...... As a policy for that very reason we have regularly REJECT/DELETE any reading requests + Astros promoting their own self interests i.e. seeking clients with eye catching " signatures " like Mr. Haresh Nathani, all such people either given the groups rules once again + also cautioned them of being banned in the group...... should they continue violating the self laid norms..... We do know that some of them would come back in a different Avatar, but proving their credentials that I am HE !! is an uphill task...... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas Dear Mr Baqaya, Sorry to hear your experiences. I have many " flaws " in my horoscope but do not wear any gemstones etc.suggested by many astrologers ( different stones at different times by diff people). You either get fatalistic or learn a deeper meaning of life by learning about astrology. That deeper meaning comes after you get no definitive answer even from astrology. This is like a stop to get a clue in the journey of life. True there are some people who are immersed with almost childlike enthusiasm (like in this forum) in astrology but, then to each his own. I knew an astrologer who was eccentric. He was living in almost poverty. One day a self made man who had just got " religious " came in his contact and started arguing about how his Guruji had explained astrology was humbug etc. ( maybe guruji was warning them against being fatalist ) Everyman has an ego (2nd lrd in 2nd house is not the only one). The astrologer took a last puff on his bidi and told him he would like to see his horoscope. Since nobody carries their kundli a date was arranged and the two met at a common friends place. the astrologer told the non-believer that his wife would die by poison and he would live his life as a widower. The woman was bitten by a snake while on atrip to the native village. The man was so horrified that he requested his friend not to call the black tongued astrologer whenever he was present. So some people see it is natural (sahaj), some people are shocked into belief. There are some in this forum who can do that but that is nit why they are online. Chiranjiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Baqayaji, First, my meaning of roadside = as practised by those selfish astros, referred event/ example by you. It is common parlance that roadside stuff or items sold on road are not of good quality or cheap imitations...same thing is extended to astrologers...practising on road....{some may turn out to be great...but in current modern scenario rare...} Second, it is possible that I might have not completely understood the context of your email and I admit it. Third, Time & energy limitations made me to stick one group.... Four, True, the world does not end with the group. There is life beyond it....like life beyond death....as our scriptures say it with details. I also believe in that. Five, you are great ....for having created & deleted bigger groups.....at will.......but I care to nurture one good group and sustain it.....that is my objective and principle.....make it as an example.....it is my ideal...and in return thank M/s for giving this free opportunity...as a means of sharing information...... Six, it has been my principle all through that my comments should be focussed on the subject than the individuals behind it....Kindly let me know where you felt hurt ?? {let this be offline}.....never had single negative comment since my association with internet from 1994 onwards...or even during the days of BBS - Bulletin Board Service....way back in 1988..... Seven, it is first time I read your posting in the group...for I am NOT in other groups.....do not know you....or your age....neither the same was mentioned in your posting..... Eight, in discussing the subject astrology, it is the point made if relevant is superior, else inferior.....do not know Senior or Junior.....categorization....never did earlier nor intend to do in future....for I have clarified earlier many times in this group....there are NO gurus, only learners..... Nine, my effort in the group has been to steer away from this side topics and focus only on the technicalities in astrology, only recently we had a decent discussions/exchanges on few astro_statements. Baqayaji, continue your association in the group.....share your vast experience.....that you might have accumalated...during your long association with astrology.....you are welcome......but request you not to " delete " the group !! Generally, I do take utmost care in my English { still carry my old oxford dictionary even now..}, still- should you find anything offensive....feel free to reproduce them in quote & unquote, openly in the group....so that I get a lesson.....for inspite of head hair turning grey ....possibly some black hair strands could still be a possibility......!! With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , " Rup Krishen Baqaya " <rkbaqaya wrote: My dear friend, Why do u think this is roadside stuff.It is most definitely not.Or man, do u think that anything u don't like is roadside stuff.Probablyu failed to understand the context in which this post was written.It was written to highlight the reasons as to why astrology could not become popular with the ppl at large.Why do u want to limit urself to the group only.The world does not end at the group.I hardly care for the group.I have created and deleted bigger groups than this at will.We astros was said to mention about astros as a community.And better mind ur language.Learn to speak with proper manners to ppl who are much elder and senior in every way to you. Rup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Mr.Sreeram, I am surprised to read the contents of ur letter.I have become a member of the group only today and that too because i have recd repeated pre-approved invitations to join the group.In fact i recd three invitations in the last fortnight only.I had no intention to join the group otherwise.I thought u must be knowing me to have sent me such invites.I do not normally go where i am not known.In view of the pre approved invite it was normal for me to presume that u have seen my profile which clearly mentions my age. I also think ur perception is very weak or may be u r too self centred to try to understand what others mean.Again you have not understood what is meant by deleting the group.How can i delete ur group.At the most i can cease to be a member.What i meant by saying that i deleted bigger groups is that i had my own much bigger than ur group and later i deleted it.As for ur nurturing one group u r entitled to ur ideas but don't behave as if u have won a Noble Prize by just nurturing a group.Ppl have done much much more in life.As for what u did to hurt me,please look at the way you have addressed me in that post,just baqaya not even a mister as a prefix.Then the tone of ur post suggests that the members must restrict themselves to ur way of thinking and not beyond.The manner in which u run the group is not conducive to free thinking.U behave like a dictator.If u need further elaboration feel free to write at my personal e-mail at baqayarup or rkbaqaya have nothing against you.I have just said what i felt. As for my age it is 62. RupOn Jan 12, 2008 5:36 PM, sreeram srinivas < sreeram64 wrote: Dear Baqayaji, First, my meaning of roadside = as practised by those selfish astros, referred event/ example by you. It is common parlance that roadside stuff or items sold on road are not of good quality or cheap imitations...same thing is extended to astrologers...practising on road....{some may turn out to be great...but in current modern scenario rare...} Second, it is possible that I might have not completely understood the context of your email and I admit it. Third, Time & energy limitations made me to stick one group.... Four, True, the world does not end with the group. There is life beyond it....like life beyond death....as our scriptures say it with details. I also believe in that. Five, you are great ....for having created & deleted bigger groups.....at will.......but I care to nurture one good group and sustain it.....that is my objective and principle.....make it as an example.....it is my ideal...and in return thank M/s for giving this free opportunity...as a means of sharing information...... Six, it has been my principle all through that my comments should be focussed on the subject than the individuals behind it....Kindly let me know where you felt hurt ?? {let this be offline}.....never had single negative comment since my association with internet from 1994 onwards...or even during the days of BBS - Bulletin Board Service....way back in 1988..... Seven, it is first time I read your posting in the group...for I am NOT in other groups.....do not know you....or your age....neither the same was mentioned in your posting..... Eight, in discussing the subject astrology, it is the point made if relevant is superior, else inferior.....do not know Senior or Junior.....categorization....never did earlier nor intend to do in future....for I have clarified earlier many times in this group....there are NO gurus, only learners..... Nine, my effort in the group has been to steer away from this side topics and focus only on the technicalities in astrology, only recently we had a decent discussions/exchanges on few astro_statements. Baqayaji, continue your association in the group.....share your vast experience.....that you might have accumalated...during your long association with astrology.....you are welcome......but request you not to " delete " the group !! Generally, I do take utmost care in my English { still carry my old oxford dictionary even now..}, still- should you find anything offensive....feel free to reproduce them in quote & unquote, openly in the group....so that I get a lesson.....for inspite of head hair turning grey ....possibly some black hair strands could still be a possibility......!! With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas , " Rup Krishen Baqaya " <rkbaqaya wrote: My dear friend, Why do u think this is roadside stuff.It is most definitely not.Or man, do u think that anything u don't like is roadside stuff.Probablyu failed to understand the context in which this post was written.It was written to highlight the reasons as to why astrology could not become popular with the ppl at large.Why do u want to limit urself to the group only.The world does not end at the group.I hardly care for the group.I have created and deleted bigger groups than this at will.We astros was said to mention about astros as a community.And better mind ur language.Learn to speak with proper manners to ppl who are much elder and senior in every way to you. Rup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Suresh ji, Yes - truly well said. Love and regards, Sreenadh , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Sureshji, > > Thank you very much for the explanations in detail. > > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > " M.V. Suresh " <mvsureshbaroda wrote: Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in interpretation as relevant to the modern context. > > Examples > > 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before puberty/adolescence. > > 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a fiat? > > 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS and still could be good in arithmetic. > > 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex with many partners but marry only one. > > 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents stay in oldage homes. > > 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus becomes the very essence of Prasna. > > 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an astrologer to think otherwise. > > M.V.Suresh > > > > > > > > r_vani61 > Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000 > Re: Views of some around the world: Is astrology just science fiction? > > Dear Sirs, > I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the practitioners of this science are not true or the details like time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any respect for Truth/Dharma. > With regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > thats right... > > Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not give guarentee... > > If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really limited to handful of people ? > > Jagdish > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > Majority of the modern and developed world today believes that no one > other than themselves is responsible for their actions. > Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the scientific > community today, they would never be convinced. > This is pretty much evident from the BBC link. > > Regards, > > Souvik > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! > > > > > > Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Souvik ji, What an example and what a derivation!! ==> > You and a few others have met with an accident (God forbid) and > hanging on a birdge. > An old lady beside you couldn't hold on and fell. She barely managed > to hold on to your feet and she did so to survive. > You on the other hand is unable to bear her weight and yours on your > strong arms and you know the "ONLY" possible way you can survive is > to let the lady go. > To survive, you will do so. > > However, does that mean that you will teach your children to kill old > ladies? > > No, you won't. > > Situations change humans and lives. <== ==> > Today you say people dont ask their children to be astrologers. The > reason is that the world thinks so and for your children to survive > in the global competition around they need skills which are globally > accepted. > The rules of society change and with it does the public opinion. <== A well selected example and a derivation that demands attention! Love and regards, Sreenadh , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote:>> Dear Jagdish,> > Every civilization that has thrived on this planet has shown a > tendency of evolution.> > First the basic needs have to be fulfilled. In the stone-age if one > spoke philosophy, one would probably remain hungry and not got a > share of the communal meat.> > When the "Basic" needs of survival are fulfilled, then you look to > improve your life.> > Industries, Science, Technology comes into the picture.> > You have posed a very strong point here.> > Let me pose the same point to you in a different way.> > You and a few others have met with an accident (God forbid) and > hanging on a birdge.> An old lady beside you couldn't hold on and fell. She barely managed > to hold on to your feet and she did so to survive.> You on the other hand is unable to bear her weight and yours on your > strong arms and you know the "ONLY" possible way you can survive is > to let the lady go.> To survive, you will do so.> > However, does that mean that you will teach your children to kill old > ladies? > > No, you won't.> > Situations change humans and lives.> > Today you say people dont ask their children to be astrologers. The > reason is that the world thinks so and for your children to survive > in the global competition around they need skills which are globally > accepted.> > Three decades from today how many parents wanted their children to be > nurses? However, today since there is such a demand of nurses in the > developed nations of the world, nursing is a full-fleged career which > allows people to go to developed nations and lead a better life.> > The rules of society change and with it does the public opinion.> > This is a long long discussion > > Regards,> > Souvik> > > , Prathamesn Chawan > upaoakcrest@ wrote:> >> > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan> > > > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible > accidents then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the > below...> > > > > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? > > > > > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why > astrology is not considered science and does not have much > importannce among people. > > > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not > from astrology.> > > > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to > astrologers to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then > you guys are cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont > want to pass on this divine knowledge to your kids...> > > > > > Thanks> > > > Jagdish> > > > > > > > > > > > "M.V. Suresh" mvsureshbaroda@ wrote:> > Astrology is definitely true. Astrologers are also true. > The birth time, place and date are also true. The catch is in > interpretation as relevant to the modern context.> > > > Examples> > > > 1. When astrology as a science was conceived, the development of > the country , place and person was minimal(as against the same > today). The main profession was agriculture and the main system of > transport was bullock cart. Marriage used to take place early before > puberty/adolescence.> > > > 2. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person > will own vehicles. It was understood that the person will have couple > of bullock carts/chariots etc. In today's context it can mean an > autorickshaw, maruti car or a BMW. Here is where the mistake takes > place. Can an astrologer say that he will own a mercedes and not a > fiat?> > > > 3. If a particular combination of planets indicate that the person > will be very good in mathematics, astrologers rush to interpret that > he will either be a mathematician, can/will do MSc.(Mathematics) or a > PhD in Maths etc. No doubt this will be true. As per the ancient > system this simply meant that the person will be very good in mental > arithmetic / calculation etc. The person could be an illiterate but > still can be very good in arithmetic. Like our grandmothers who were > illiterate but could calculate the total yield of paddy from the > fields on their finger tips. The person could also pursue CA / MBBS > and still could be good in arithmetic.> > > > 4. If it is indicated that a person will have more than one > marriage, parents conclude that their child will be married twice > meaning that he will get divorced and marry again. As per the ancient > system marriage is consumated, once sex takes place. In today's > context sex can take place outside marriage. A person may have sex > with many partners but marry only one.> > > > 5. Going abroad was considered very bad in olden times as the > person will be far away from his parents whom he has to serve till > they survive. As he will be abdicating his duty it was considered a > very bad combination if he goes abroad as he cannot do his daily > duties. For a Brahmin doing Sandhyavandanam is paramount which he can > do only in Bharata Desa. Today going abroad it prestigious. Parents > stay in oldage homes. > > > > 6. Most importantly the six sense / the invoking the divine is very > essential when an astrologer speaks as it will be his final take out > of a set of interpretations. By invoking the divine the margin of > error can be drastically reduced. Thus there is lot of abstract sense > in interpretation just like Ketu and Rahu. When we say astrology is a > science, yes it is. But we cannot explain Ketu and Rahu with respect > to science or for that matter guligan. Invoking the divine thus > becomes the very essence of Prasna.> > > > 7. Astrology is a science. It is a matter of faith. If a person has > faith he can accept it. If he does not have faith his so called > rational / irrational explanation / justification cannot force an > astrologer to think otherwise. > > > > M.V.Suresh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > r_vani61@> > Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:45:03 +0000> > Re: Views of some around the > world: Is astrology just science fiction?> > > > Dear Sirs,> > I feel the Astrology is really true, but not the astrologers. > Astrology is a Divine Science, I believe, because it is a Vedangam > and known and practised since ages together. Only thing is that the > practitioners of this science are not true or the details like > time/date/place required for this practice is not true. And people > with half knowledge are proclaiming that their word is true. That > will not do to make this science great, rather it will become a > laughing stock to all those Tom, Dick and Harry, who do not have any > respect for Truth/Dharma.> > With regards,> > D.Ramakrishnan.> > > > Prathamesn Chawan upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > thats right...> > > > Astrology can give only probability of happening. It does not > give guarentee...> > > > If astrology is really true, then man cant keep their eyes away > from it for longer. Howcome physics, chemicstry, maths, and biology > is taught in schools but not astrology ? Howcome astrology is really > limited to handful of people ?> > > > Jagdish> > > > > > > > Souvik Dutta explore_vulcan@ wrote:> > Majority of the modern and developed world today believes > that no one > > other than themselves is responsible for their actions.> > Unless otherwise proven wrong with solid evidence from the > scientific > > community today, they would never be convinced.> > This is pretty much evident from the BBC link.> > > > Regards,> > > > Souvik> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it > now! > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Sreeram ji, ==> We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched them....and concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery Channel program where a "tribal spiritual person" ...NON eating .....was subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt. job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on "Solar Energy" { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}..... <== There IS a normal Jain business man from Gujarat, living in Calicut, Kerala; who is popular for Non-eating FOR AN YEAR and he says that he gets energy from Sun by looking at it; and asks us to practice the same. A noraml business man without any irrational claims - he just tells us what he practices. He was taken to America, is now back. His story was published in many major dailies. There is another individual in Kerala, who catches 11KV electricity lines!! Just to do demonstration and make money! Not a yogi - but some kind of conducting human being, who is unaffected by electricity! He is known in public as 'Current Mohanan' - current means 'electricity'. He too IS a normal man in daily life. Just sharing the info related to some LIVING individuals - who always DEMONSTRATE what they do – Science can not explain both these mysteries and mysterious individuals; who are just common people in daily life. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "sreeram srinivas" <sreeram64 wrote: Re: Is astrology just science fiction? Dear Members, Sometime back a Japanese scientist conducted a series of experiments on water now published in his book "The Hidden messages of Water Signs" written by Dr. Masaru Emoto {you may find the details on www.lightonVedic Astrology.com }, where in his scientific experiements concluded that polluted water crystals getting transformed into pure, through the power of vedic mantras......this is a repeation of the same scientific experiments NASA conducted {not sure if NASA or other labs...} on Sound experiements, where using Laplace forms, the sound vibrations created the divine forms....i.e. chanting mantras intended for Lord Ganesha created a "Lord Ganesha Form"...so on so forth..... Then read the book "The Secret life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird & how the "7-Chakras" get related.... Now back to astrology, see how the planets have been linked to specific Trees in our vedic sciences....planets are assigned definite colors....there is big business in western world on Color therapy or use of colors in interior decoration...etc... Why does our great westerners who never knew anything about vedic astrology, yet in their wisdom choose Black color for lawyers & judges ?? We knew it that Saturn is the Judgement...and is represented by Black color..... Were we not using it in our Lord Shani Maharaj pujas...etc..?? Earlier, we were using ordinary cowdung manure.....which was supposed to be primitive fertilizer....scientific temper told it is good to use - sulphates & phosphates,.....then they also became dated, scientific world revised it to - Nitrogeneous fertilizers - we know it as Urea,.....now this also found to be damaging the soil & contributing it to Global Warming....now Organic farming is the latest buzz word....worldover....Now tell me traditional wisdom in India for ages has been to use simple cowdung...after 60 yrs...we are back to square one.....{ yet it is a great scientific journey...."science"... realizaton....we all got benefited....monetarily....} We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched them....and concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery Channel program where a "tribal spiritual person" ...NON eating .....was subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt. job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on "Solar Energy" { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}..... Such talents, belying the so called science.....surely science is evolving...would take ages before it reaches what our rishis have written it .....in short Science is learning the hardway.... India has more secret skills & techniques....but for the qualified few..... Now understand why river Ganges during the "good days"....was a miracle water for treating diseases.....similarly other holy rivers... { we normally use the word HOLY to rivers for specific valid reasons} for temples & prayers are all conducted on river fronts....with few people going to temples or say more to beer pubs or bars...the holyness of such rivers has decreased over the period of time.... Humor - Bachelors generally visit temples / churches..etc. for perspective girl friends or partners.....not for any sincerity in praying to God..... { this is a common knowledge} All the above by Westerners...yet we love to bashing our culture & heritage...etc....... The above knowledge comes after years of reading, probing, understanding, assimilating..etc....today the ignorant members are getting to this.....in one posting........we write it so that the interested members in lesser age group read this and revive the traditional beliefs......a faint ray of hope to people like me..... Children get to know about culture, values...through celebration of various events / festivals and in the processes getting to now the underlying truth behind such festivals...etc.. Surely, ...GUESS ....Mr. Jagdish or Mr. Chawan....in their respective families....must never had this education in their childhood.....now trying to learn the basics...through this postings....i.e. hardway.....by this strong rebuttals.......or getting humbled....!! An elderly lady {never known her } in a friendly chat, revealed that she reads Shiva Puran regularly....she expected appreciation in return from me ...{she herself candidly admitted}....which I did not....because being used to "Guerilla Techniques" in getting a reading....!!.....few lines later.....she gave few findings on Shiva Puran .....which were interesting....{known to me for having read them during my childhood days under direct feet of Swami Chinmayananda}....{still not yielded to it....}...for those could have also been through interaction with Panditjis... {those Shiva Puran notes were NOT from Internet material ....for they were finer/quality findings}.....later few hrs. later...she narratted her mother taking them to Lord Murugan temples..etc.....that too a self professed Punjabi lady.....beyond my belief ....for I also lived in Punjab -Amristar, Jalandhar & Ludhiana... Moral of above para: Through the chat, I did get convinced of her religious background, considering her background, a great/commendable thing & rare from a Punjabi background - "She expected a acknowledgement / pat on that..." Going to temples/church/...is your daily routine....do not expect someone to compliment it....!! Five basic elements of Hinduism....... Surely, members like Mr. Jadgish or Mr. Chawan +.....etc.....want results....on a platter without toiling....they are "armchair" or couch potatoes.....do nothing & believe nothing...... With regards, Sreeram_Srinivas > > , "M.V. Suresh"> mvsureshbaroda@ wrote:> > Dear Sri. Jagdish,> > This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation> is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and everything> is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. When> Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that> astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a> formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out.> Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of Atharva> Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. The> doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope of> the patient and invokes the divine before administering further> treatment. And this works.> It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics of> this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in Sanskrit,> the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit is> respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him> accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is the> respect.> > Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit> vidwans are treated in our country.> > M.V.Suresh> > > @: upaoakcrest@: Fri, 11 Jan 2008> 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology just> science fiction?> > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan> > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible accidents> then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below...> > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ?> > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology> is not considered science and does not have much importannce among> people.> > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from> astrology.> > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers> to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are> cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass on> this divine knowledge to your kids...> > > Thanks> Jagdish> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Dear Sreenadh-ji, As much as I would love to believe this, I find this a little difficult to digest. Human physiology is not adapted to inhale energy as photons. However, I was very interested when I read your mail and did a little research on this " man from Kerala feeding on solar energy " . Here's a little website on this issue: http://www.randi.org/jr/071103.html From the website ------------------- The account went on to give details. Manek said he " eats through his eyes " in the evening, when the sun's ultraviolet rays are least harmful. His wife said: " He has a special taste for sun energy. He believes only 5 per cent of human brain cells are used by most people. The other 95 per cent can be activated through solar energy. " Well, Mr. Manek, I've often been known to dip into my gray matter deeply enough to use as much as ten percent, so I think you're a damn liar. And, here at the JREF we get all sorts of claims from people who say they don't eat, ever, and we stack those claims with the fly- by-flapping-my-arms and make-women-crazy-by-ESP presumptions. One guy tested in California a few years back was discovered to be sneaking out to McDonalds in the wee hours of the morning, though he claimed he only inhaled the burger aroma to stay alive... We didn't believe that... Ah, but as the Hindustan Times story developed, it was discovered that Manek took a bit more than sunlight for sustenance. His wife had somewhat hyperbolized his claim — what a surprise! — and admitted that he also consumed buttermilk and fruit juices. The miracle begins to fade somewhat at this point, don't you think? I wasn't too excited at yet another " breatharian " claim. What really interested me was whether NASA had actually expressed interest in this nonsense. Believe me, no federal agency can surprise me, in this period of our history where qualified physicists accept and endorse dowsing, the patent office issues patents for " free energy " machines, and hospitals officially allow witchdoctors in gowns to cast spells for patients. So I looked into that matter. Theoretically, that sounds easy to do. In actuality, it's a horror. Go to NASA's official page, www.nasa.gov and you'll see. Look over the entire page. The only likely button there is labeled, " Contact NASA " at the upper right. Okay, press it. On this next page, you'll find 3 more buttons labeled " Contact NASA, " all of which bring you back to the page you're already on. Remaining on this set-up, there's only one likely way to go, at the top center: " Multimedia. " Press. Now you see 2 more " contact NASA " buttons, but you'll ignore those. In fact, you're stopped dead. There's NO WAY to " contact NASA. " Give it up. I had to abandon this quest, and I called a good friend who had an " in " with the system, who put me in touch with the person directly involved with the issues about which I had the question. I called, and told her my problem, to simply discover whether NASA was involved with this " living-on-sunlight " claim. Within half an hour, I was assured that no group within NASA had any knowledge of, nor involvement with, this nonsense. Fine. That's what I'd hoped for. But within the hour, reading the web page of another group, a very well-informed and prestigious one, I was shocked to see that they'd been in touch with NASA over the same item, and had been told that NASA was active in this respect, with this man Manek! Who to believe? Well, the official NASA spokesperson, Dolores Beasley, has now said she has no idea why press reports had claimed that NASA had invited Manek. NASA has no record of him being involved with them, in any way whatsoever. So, it's all a lie. What else is new? -------- NASA doesn't have an news on its website on this. Unless otherwise given a link of an authenticated scientific body-be it in our own country or any where in the world, I personally wouldn't consider it anything more than rumours. Regards, Souvik , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > > Dear Sreeram ji, > ==> > We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched them....and > concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery > Channel program where a " tribal spiritual person " ...NON eating .....was > subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical > conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an > person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt. > job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on " Solar Energy " > { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}..... > <== > There IS a normal Jain business man from Gujarat, living in Calicut, > Kerala; who is popular for Non-eating FOR AN YEAR and he says that he > gets energy from Sun by looking at it; and asks us to practice the same. > A noraml business man without any irrational claims - he just tells us > what he practices. He was taken to America, is now back. His story was > published in many major dailies. > There is another individual in Kerala, who catches 11KV electricity > lines!! Just to do demonstration and make money! Not a yogi - but some > kind of conducting human being, who is unaffected by electricity! He is > known in public as 'Current Mohanan' - current means 'electricity'. > He too IS a normal man in daily life. > Just sharing the info related to some LIVING individuals - who always > DEMONSTRATE what they do – Science can not explain both these > mysteries and mysterious individuals; who are just common people in > daily life. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > , " sreeram srinivas " > <sreeram64@> wrote: > Re: Is astrology just science fiction? > > Dear Members, > > Sometime back a Japanese scientist conducted a series of experiments on > water now published in his book " The Hidden messages of Water Signs " > written by Dr. Masaru Emoto {you may find the details on > www.lightonVedic Astrology.com <http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/> > }, where in his scientific experiements concluded that polluted water > crystals getting transformed into pure, through the power of vedic > mantras......this is a repeation of the same scientific experiments NASA > conducted {not sure if NASA or other labs...} on Sound experiements, > where using Laplace forms, the sound vibrations created the divine > forms....i.e. chanting mantras intended for Lord Ganesha created a " Lord > Ganesha Form " ...so on so forth..... > > Then read the book " The Secret life of Plants " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird & how the " 7-Chakras " get related.... > > Now back to astrology, see how the planets have been linked to specific > Trees in our vedic sciences....planets are assigned definite > colors....there is big business in western world on Color therapy or use > of colors in interior decoration...etc... > > Why does our great westerners who never knew anything about vedic > astrology, yet in their wisdom choose Black color for lawyers & judges > ?? We knew it that Saturn is the Judgement...and is represented by > Black color..... Were we not using it in our Lord Shani Maharaj > pujas...etc..?? > > Earlier, we were using ordinary cowdung manure.....which was supposed to > be primitive fertilizer....scientific temper told it is good to use - > sulphates & phosphates,.....then they also became dated, scientific > world revised it to - Nitrogeneous fertilizers - we know it as > Urea,.....now this also found to be damaging the soil & contributing it > to Global Warming....now Organic farming is the latest buzz > word....worldover....Now tell me traditional wisdom in India for ages > has been to use simple cowdung...after 60 yrs...we are back to square > one.....{ yet it is a great scientific journey.... " science " ... > realizaton....we all got benefited....monetarily....} > > We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched them....and > concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery > Channel program where a " tribal spiritual person " ...NON eating .....was > subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical > conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an > person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt. > job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on " Solar Energy " > { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}..... > > Such talents, belying the so called science.....surely science is > evolving...would take ages before it reaches what our rishis have > written it .....in short Science is learning the hardway.... India has > more secret skills & techniques....but for the qualified few..... > > Now understand why river Ganges during the " good days " ....was a miracle > water for treating diseases.....similarly other holy rivers... { we > normally use the word HOLY to rivers for specific valid reasons} for > temples & prayers are all conducted on river fronts....with few people > going to temples or say more to beer pubs or bars...the holyness of such > rivers has decreased over the period of time.... > > Humor - Bachelors generally visit temples / churches..etc. for > perspective girl friends or partners.....not for any sincerity in > praying to God..... { this is a common knowledge} > > All the above by Westerners...yet we love to bashing our culture & > heritage...etc....... > > The above knowledge comes after years of reading, probing, > understanding, assimilating..etc....today the ignorant members are > getting to this.....in one posting........we write it so that the > interested members in lesser age group read this and revive the > traditional beliefs......a faint ray of hope to people like me..... > > Children get to know about culture, values...through celebration of > various events / festivals and in the processes getting to now the > underlying truth behind such festivals...etc.. Surely, ...GUESS > ....Mr. Jagdish or Mr. Chawan....in their respective families....must > never had this education in their childhood.....now trying to learn the > basics...through this postings....i.e. hardway.....by this strong > rebuttals.......or getting humbled....!! > > An elderly lady {never known her } in a friendly chat, revealed that > she reads Shiva Puran regularly....she expected appreciation in return > from me ...{she herself candidly admitted}....which I did not....because > being used to " Guerilla Techniques " in getting a reading....!!.....few > lines later.....she gave few findings on Shiva Puran .....which were > interesting....{known to me for having read them during my childhood > days under direct feet of Swami Chinmayananda}....{still not yielded to > it....}...for those could have also been through interaction with > Panditjis... {those Shiva Puran notes were NOT from Internet material > ....for they were finer/quality findings}.....later few hrs. later...she > narratted her mother taking them to Lord Murugan temples..etc.....that > too a self professed Punjabi lady.....beyond my belief [] ....for > I also lived in Punjab -Amristar, Jalandhar & Ludhiana... > > Moral of above para: Through the chat, I did get convinced of her > religious background, considering her background, a great/commendable > thing & rare from a Punjabi background - " She expected a acknowledgement > / pat on that... " > > Going to temples/church/...is your daily routine....do not expect > someone to compliment it....!! Five basic elements of Hinduism....... > > Surely, members like Mr. Jadgish or Mr. Chawan +.....etc.....want > results....on a platter without toiling....they are " armchair " or couch > potatoes.....do nothing & believe nothing...... > > With regards, > > Sreeram_Srinivas > > > > > , " M.V. Suresh " > > mvsureshbaroda@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sri. Jagdish, > > > > This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You observation > > is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and > everything > > is successful if it is patronised by the government and society. > When > > Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure that > > astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied in a > > formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out. > > Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of > Atharva > > Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic Centres. > The > > doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the horoscope > of > > the patient and invokes the divine before administering further > > treatment. And this works. > > It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become sceptics > of > > this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in > Sanskrit, > > the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of Sanskrit > is > > respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives him > > accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This is > the > > respect. > > > > Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way sanskrit > > vidwans are treated in our country. > > > > M.V.Suresh > > > > > > @: upaoakcrest@: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 > > 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology > just > > science fiction? > > > > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan > > > > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible > accidents > > then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below... > > > > > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ? > > > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why astrology > > is not considered science and does not have much importannce among > > people. > > > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not from > > astrology. > > > > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to astrologers > > to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you guys are > > cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to pass > on > > this divine knowledge to your kids... > > > > > > Thanks > > Jagdish > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Dear Souvik ji, As far as Randy is concerned you should see the other side of the coin as well. He is collecting material for his TV shows and books - and there is no intention in him even to accept genuine claims, except to make money out of his TV shows and books. He is after his carrier and business - and is NOT AT ALL a sincere genuine individual in search of truth. His propaganda is just business advertisement. Now coming to the examples I gave about some non-describable human being, that defy of current understanding of science and biology - these are NOT stories, but living individuls. One of them (the current mohanan) does almost daily demonstration for a living; and the other with a good economic status and other livelihood does not have any intention of giving false propaganda to anything - a sincere simple human being; you can easily get his contact details as well. (based on the experience of this simple human being, in Calicut, Kerala it is a trend among youngsters to practice the same) Further if you have tried looking at the son for continuously in the morning or evening (without blinking) and increase you timings from 5 min gradually to 45 minutes - you yourself will see the difference. Sincerely I tried it and really felt the difference, and then due to many circumstances the practice broke in the middle. Certainly I would d be continuing it as I get the environment right. Apart from the science defying siddhis demonstrated by people are not new. There was a Russian lady with X-ray eyes, there were people who could bend spoons just by looking at it. I remember an astonishing demonstration I witnessed at a temple ground near my house. A sadhu (or say a demonstrator) arranged a program, and what he did was - breaking more than 100 coconuts , i.e. before peeling the hard green cover of it, by hitting in his own head!! To test him some people gave him dry coconuts which will resist minor blows and will not break. But he accepted them too and breaked them all using by raising them above his head and hitting them on his own head, as if his head is a hard rock. I was wonderstruck, and as a school boy came home and tried it my self - and as you could guess - just to damage my skin and flush above the skull. Many people came forward with 'scientific' (?) explanations such as 'when a football player hits a ball with his head, actually more than 40 KG is being hit own his and so it is no wonder' and so on. After that it was a joke among us people to when ever an individual comes with some such explanation - to give him a green coconut and ask him to do it himself and prove it. :=) To quote another example - when Gujral (our former prime minister) was the head of the Spiritual or Psychic research institute (I don't remember the name exactly, just check the positions held by Gujral, you will get it) one Nitya Chaitanya yati (with whom I had a long contact and spend a month in his ashram with him) was held some good position there (later I will provide the details). During their search for people with extra ordinary capabilities they found an individual called `Swami Nadabrahmananda' – who sings `Ta Na' with in – meditating on music. He allowed the scientists and doctors present in the institute to close his nostrils, mouth, eyes etc and he was able do the `Ta Na' meditation WITHOUT BREATING for 45 minutes!! Science tells us an individual will die if he is not breathing for (at the most) 5 minutes! What explanation will you give for that? The detailed are mentioned in the books of Nitya Chaitanya Yati (who taught in American universities for more than 10 years) and should be present in the writings of Gugral as well. So the point is everything is not fake stories - there are several testable realities. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > As much as I would love to believe this, I find this a little > difficult to digest.> > Human physiology is not adapted to inhale energy as photons.> > However, I was very interested when I read your mail and did a little > research on this "man from Kerala feeding on solar energy".> > Here's a little website on this issue:> http://www.randi.org/jr/071103.html> > From the website> -------------------> The account went on to give details. Manek said he "eats through his > eyes" in the evening, when the sun's ultraviolet rays are least > harmful. His wife said: "He has a special taste for sun energy. He > believes only 5 per cent of human brain cells are used by most > people. The other 95 per cent can be activated through solar energy." > > Well, Mr. Manek, I've often been known to dip into my gray matter > deeply enough to use as much as ten percent, so I think you're a damn > liar. And, here at the JREF we get all sorts of claims from people > who say they don't eat, ever, and we stack those claims with the fly-> by-flapping-my-arms and make-women-crazy-by-ESP presumptions. One guy > tested in California a few years back was discovered to be sneaking > out to McDonalds in the wee hours of the morning, though he claimed > he only inhaled the burger aroma to stay alive... We didn't believe > that... > > Ah, but as the Hindustan Times story developed, it was discovered > that Manek took a bit more than sunlight for sustenance. His wife had > somewhat hyperbolized his claim — what a surprise! — and admitted > that he also consumed buttermilk and fruit juices. The miracle begins > to fade somewhat at this point, don't you think? > > I wasn't too excited at yet another "breatharian" claim. What really > interested me was whether NASA had actually expressed interest in > this nonsense. Believe me, no federal agency can surprise me, in this > period of our history where qualified physicists accept and endorse > dowsing, the patent office issues patents for "free energy" machines, > and hospitals officially allow witchdoctors in gowns to cast spells > for patients. So I looked into that matter. > > Theoretically, that sounds easy to do. In actuality, it's a horror. > Go to NASA's official page, www.nasa.gov and you'll see. Look over > the entire page. The only likely button there is labeled, "Contact > NASA" at the upper right. Okay, press it. On this next page, you'll > find 3 more buttons labeled "Contact NASA," all of which bring you > back to the page you're already on. Remaining on this set-up, there's > only one likely way to go, at the top center: "Multimedia." Press. > Now you see 2 more "contact NASA" buttons, but you'll ignore those. > In fact, you're stopped dead. There's NO WAY to "contact NASA." Give > it up. > > I had to abandon this quest, and I called a good friend who had > an "in" with the system, who put me in touch with the person directly > involved with the issues about which I had the question. I called, > and told her my problem, to simply discover whether NASA was involved > with this "living-on-sunlight" claim. Within half an hour, I was > assured that no group within NASA had any knowledge of, nor > involvement with, this nonsense. > > Fine. That's what I'd hoped for. But within the hour, reading the web > page of another group, a very well-informed and prestigious one, I > was shocked to see that they'd been in touch with NASA over the same > item, and had been told that NASA was active in this respect, with > this man Manek! Who to believe? > > Well, the official NASA spokesperson, Dolores Beasley, has now said > she has no idea why press reports had claimed that NASA had invited > Manek. NASA has no record of him being involved with them, in any way > whatsoever. So, it's all a lie. What else is new?> --------> > NASA doesn't have an news on its website on this. Unless otherwise > given a link of an authenticated scientific body-be it in our own > country or any where in the world, I personally wouldn't consider it > anything more than rumours.> > Regards,> > Souvik> > > , "Sreenadh" > sreesog@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Sreeram ji,> > ==>> > We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched > them....and> > concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery> > Channel program where a "tribal spiritual person" ...NON > eating .....was> > subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical> > conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an> > person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt.> > job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on "Solar > Energy"> > { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}.....> > <==> > There IS a normal Jain business man from Gujarat, living in > Calicut,> > Kerala; who is popular for Non-eating FOR AN YEAR and he says that > he> > gets energy from Sun by looking at it; and asks us to practice the > same.> > A noraml business man without any irrational claims - he just tells > us> > what he practices. He was taken to America, is now back. His > story was> > published in many major dailies.> > There is another individual in Kerala, who catches 11KV > electricity> > lines!! Just to do demonstration and make money! Not a yogi - but > some> > kind of conducting human being, who is unaffected by electricity! > He is> > known in public as 'Current Mohanan' - current > means 'electricity'. > > He too IS a normal man in daily life.> > Just sharing the info related to some LIVING individuals - who > always> > DEMONSTRATE what they do – Science can not explain both these> > mysteries and mysterious individuals; who are just common people in> > daily life.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > , "sreeram srinivas"> > <sreeram64@> wrote:> > Re: Is astrology just science fiction?> > > > Dear Members,> > > > Sometime back a Japanese scientist conducted a series of > experiments on> > water now published in his book "The Hidden messages of Water > Signs" > > written by Dr. Masaru Emoto {you may find the details on> > www.lightonVedic Astrology.com > <http://www.lightonVedic Astrology.com/> > > }, where in his scientific experiements concluded that polluted > water> > crystals getting transformed into pure, through the power of vedic> > mantras......this is a repeation of the same scientific experiments > NASA> > conducted {not sure if NASA or other labs...} on Sound > experiements,> > where using Laplace forms, the sound vibrations created the divine> > forms....i.e. chanting mantras intended for Lord Ganesha created > a "Lord> > Ganesha Form"...so on so forth.....> > > > Then read the book "The Secret life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins > and> > Christopher Bird & how the "7-Chakras" get related....> > > > Now back to astrology, see how the planets have been linked to > specific> > Trees in our vedic sciences....planets are assigned definite> > colors....there is big business in western world on Color therapy > or use> > of colors in interior decoration...etc...> > > > Why does our great westerners who never knew anything about vedic> > astrology, yet in their wisdom choose Black color for lawyers & > judges> > ?? We knew it that Saturn is the Judgement...and is represented by> > Black color..... Were we not using it in our Lord Shani Maharaj> > pujas...etc..??> > > > Earlier, we were using ordinary cowdung manure.....which was > supposed to> > be primitive fertilizer....scientific temper told it is good to > use - > > sulphates & phosphates,.....then they also became dated, scientific> > world revised it to - Nitrogeneous fertilizers - we know it as> > Urea,.....now this also found to be damaging the soil & > contributing it> > to Global Warming....now Organic farming is the latest buzz> > word....worldover....Now tell me traditional wisdom in India for > ages> > has been to use simple cowdung...after 60 yrs...we are back to > square> > one.....{ yet it is a great scientific journey...."science"...> > realizaton....we all got benefited....monetarily....}> > > > We have NON eating saints...the western world itself watched > them....and> > concluded their credentials to be true.....recently saw a Discovery> > Channel program where a "tribal spiritual person" ...NON > eating .....was> > subjected to scientific scrutiny for 7 days, in a clinical> > conditions....with all body rythms...functioning normal.....then an> > person from Uttar Pradesh, educated & may be retired from a govt.> > job.....was monitored for more than year....was living on "Solar > Energy"> > { approx. 243 days, when I read the news item}.....> > > > Such talents, belying the so called science.....surely science is> > evolving...would take ages before it reaches what our rishis have> > written it .....in short Science is learning the hardway.... India > has> > more secret skills & techniques....but for the qualified few.....> > > > Now understand why river Ganges during the "good days"....was a > miracle> > water for treating diseases.....similarly other holy rivers... { we> > normally use the word HOLY to rivers for specific valid reasons} for> > temples & prayers are all conducted on river fronts....with few > people> > going to temples or say more to beer pubs or bars...the holyness of > such> > rivers has decreased over the period of time....> > > > Humor - Bachelors generally visit temples / churches..etc. for> > perspective girl friends or partners.....not for any sincerity in> > praying to God..... { this is a common knowledge}> > > > All the above by Westerners...yet we love to bashing our culture & > > heritage...etc.......> > > > The above knowledge comes after years of reading, probing,> > understanding, assimilating..etc....today the ignorant members are> > getting to this.....in one posting........we write it so that the> > interested members in lesser age group read this and revive the> > traditional beliefs......a faint ray of hope to people like me.....> > > > Children get to know about culture, values...through celebration of> > various events / festivals and in the processes getting to now the> > underlying truth behind such festivals...etc.. Surely, ...GUESS> > ....Mr. Jagdish or Mr. Chawan....in their respective > families....must> > never had this education in their childhood.....now trying to learn > the> > basics...through this postings....i.e. hardway.....by this strong> > rebuttals.......or getting humbled....!!> > > > An elderly lady {never known her } in a friendly chat, revealed > that> > she reads Shiva Puran regularly....she expected appreciation in > return> > from me ...{she herself candidly admitted}....which I did > not....because> > being used to "Guerilla Techniques" in getting a > reading....!!.....few> > lines later.....she gave few findings on Shiva Puran .....which > were> > interesting....{known to me for having read them during my childhood> > days under direct feet of Swami Chinmayananda}....{still not > yielded to> > it....}...for those could have also been through interaction with> > Panditjis... {those Shiva Puran notes were NOT from Internet > material> > ....for they were finer/quality findings}.....later few hrs. > later...she> > narratted her mother taking them to Lord Murugan > temples..etc.....that> > too a self professed Punjabi lady.....beyond my belief > [] ....for> > I also lived in Punjab -Amristar, Jalandhar & Ludhiana...> > > > Moral of above para: Through the chat, I did get convinced of her> > religious background, considering her background, a > great/commendable> > thing & rare from a Punjabi background - "She expected a > acknowledgement> > / pat on that..."> > > > Going to temples/church/...is your daily routine....do not expect> > someone to compliment it....!! Five basic elements of > Hinduism.......> > > > Surely, members like Mr. Jadgish or Mr. Chawan +.....etc.....want> > results....on a platter without toiling....they are "armchair" or > couch> > potatoes.....do nothing & believe nothing......> > > > With regards,> > > > Sreeram_Srinivas> > > > >> > > , "M.V. Suresh"> > > mvsureshbaroda@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sri. Jagdish,> > >> > > This is the irony of our system. This is the tragedy. You > observation> > > is correct. The point to be noted here is that anything and> > everything> > > is successful if it is patronised by the government and society.> > When> > > Murli Manohar Joshi was the HRD Minister he was about to ensure > that> > > astrology and vedic studies became compulsory and was studied > in a> > > formal level. But everything collapsed when BJP was voted out.> > > Medicinal Astrology a branch of Ayurveda which is an upanga of> > Atharva> > > Veda is still practised in Kerala in most of the Ayurvedic > Centres.> > The> > > doctor after initial administration of medicine checks the > horoscope> > of> > > the patient and invokes the divine before administering further> > > treatment. And this works.> > > It is a sad state of affairs that we ourselves have become > sceptics> > of> > > this science. Take Germany. Fantastic research is going on in> > Sanskrit,> > > the Vedas and Astrology. Any person with good knowledge of > Sanskrit> > is> > > respected in Germany and the Government patronises him. Gives > him> > > accomodation and salary and includes him in the research. This > is> > the> > > respect.> > >> > > Here we use astrologers and treat them as dirt just the way > sanskrit> > > vidwans are treated in our country.> > >> > > M.V.Suresh> > >> > >> > > @: upaoakcrest@: Fri, 11 Jan 2008> > > 08:04:17 -0800Re: Is astrology> > just> > > science fiction?> > >> > > One basic question to Mr Suresh and Mr. D Ramakrishnan> > >> > > When you child fell sick or your parents are having terrible> > accidents> > > then where do you go ? You can CHOSE ONLY ONE of the below...> > >> > >> > > You go to a Doctor ? Or you go to an astrologer ?> > >> > > Probably the answer of this question has the reason that why > astrology> > > is not considered science and does not have much importannce among> > > people.> > >> > > AND Tom, Dick and Harry are getting benefits from Science but not > from> > > astrology.> > >> > > Before i end up this letter, do you guys send your kids to > astrologers> > > to learn astrology to learn about fate ? If you dont then you > guys are> > > cheats and fakes. You believe in astrology and yet dont want to > pass> > on> > > this divine knowledge to your kids...> > >> > >> > > Thanks> > > Jagdish> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Dearest Sreenadh-ji, I believe you for than I would believe anyone else when it comes to authenticity of information. Yes, I am not without doubts over Randi, I know his intentions. However, due to strong Saturian influence on me, I will surely need to see and experience these things for myself before I believe. This is purely personal. As a friend, pardon me for this skepticism please Best wishes, Souvik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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