Fwd: Neutrinos and all that

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Dear Vinita ji, I hope you remember this beautiful intereaction we had in Navalakshya group. Humm.... For sure dissolving Navalakshya group would be a loss to many.... Love and regards,Sreenadhnavlakshya , "vinita kumar" <shankar_mamta wrote:

 

 

 

 

Re: Neutrinos and all that

 

Dear Shreenadh,Yes, this is quite maddening. Your neutrinos, planes of existence,systems and frameworks....they are pretty maddening...The less Iunderstand the more maddening it gets....So I fantasised that i could understand all of this..........in thefollowing manner.......Neutrinoes zig zag in spaceSlicing through your graceMyriad dimensions that laceThis universe with a faceDoes this universe have a face?Or is it a million dimensions of time-spaceA million faces contained in boxesIn systems analysis of computer scientists?There is a curse, (in my surmise)How it happened it's a surpriseHow it happened do not askHow each face became a maskHow the eyes became so hollowHow the smiles became so shallowHow the great spell was castHow love disappeared so fastEach dimension of spaceWithin the framework of each faceCould not communicate with the otherCould not hold hands of the brother.Each dimension of spaceEach person with a faceSang only within one systemA fixed beat, a fixed rhythmSystems within systemsLike wheels within wheelsFrameworks within frameworksWhere does it all lead?When Alice entered the tunnelIt was just another worldThe cat smiled a smileWhen two dimensions mergedBut a million dimensions came togetherWhen first I saw your face.A million neutrinoes danced togetherAppreciating your graceThe face that can reviveA myriad masks, a million livesThe face that can uniteWhat is wrong, what is rightYou took us then to distant landsWhere standing together we clapped our handsEach face now outside the boxFlung its mask in sheer delightThe band then played a different tuneBeyond the seven notes we knewThe eyes then filled with twinkling starsThe smiles reflected who we areThen you gathered us in a heapLove soared in a sudden leapWhen Parvati stroked our faceAnd sweetly sang to us to sleep.---------------------------YEs it is difficult to say what is being awake and what is sleeping,what is maddening and what is soothing.......Love,Vinitanavlakshya , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote: Dear Vinita ji, Excellent! The hawk soars in the sky Waiting for the prey The waves roar for the hour When he will swoop for the slay. Let the hawk swoop any time he wants... We were here....and would be ever after... Why fear life or death? Life is meaningless and death is meaningless. What we really dois trying to impart it a new meaning through love - love for theworld or love for the devine. Yes, it takes courage to accept uncertainity as is - the greatest challenge in life! Birth is a certainity, Death is a certainity, and we wanteverything in between also to be a certainity! But divinity is very good at randomizing!! - We need to learn how to enjoy it, and the life(the moment - the pause) in between. But why worry everythig was here and everything would - in new moulds and new shapes. At times I imagine, of a neutrino (very small sub atomicparticle). In an atom the vaccum/vaccant space is vast like a play ground and the neucleous is like fly in the middle of that vast area. If a neutrino pass through the solar system and right through earth itmay not even bombard with even a single neuclious! The neutrino maynot even feel or know that the earth exists!! For it is just vast play ground of energy and nothing else is there!! It would say thatthere in no solar system and no earth and it is just an imagination!! So what is truth - Is there exists a world or not?! Do we exists or not?! Who knows!! ) In our plane of existance the world exists for us - that is only truth we can reach upto. If there is a bacteria lives in our body - who birth and death starts and ends within us - what would be its openion about the world around? If the whole galaxy is an organism and we are like the bacteria living inside that organism, thencould our view of the world could be a true one? Just some random thoughts. Why fear the hawk? - because even Mrityum jaya can't help us - since only Siva exists. From whom he need to save and what?! OhmNama Sivaya...I bow before thee... No I am not a saint - but the greatest saint is in me at times.Yes at times the thief and killer as well. But yes, I greatly enjoy the glimse of the saint within from within. No, No, don't mistify - says the head. So I stop here. At least I should respect him since Head is Male and Heart is Female, and the this dulality is with in the same soul. Head = Male = Purusha Heart = Female = Prakriti Soul = Brahman Is it not beautiful? That where some radom thoughts. Bye the way- Afraid of wet feet Afraid of the deep How long will I wait Divided, torn, incomplete? Jump! There is no escape, or other way round! We have to acceptand live with the uncertainity - the world without a saviour butdevine, where from within divinity alone paves the way. Don't worry, everything is devine - but it takes courage. I don't have anything to loss - because I have nothing of my own, no, not even my name. I don't have anything to gain - because who is this I itself?!! "Love alone exists and the life of this moment" - Enjoy, says - who?! What else can I do? Where ever I said You replace it with I, and whereever I said I, replace it with You - It makes no difference! ============================================================= What ever told above is just madness - zigzagging thoughts from within. But in the inner madness, everyone is the same. Sorryto every one who is like sequential program in thinking - for putting such thoughts with no evident connecting link. By the way I feel Astrology is like a sequential program that produce fractels! Something liniar that produce non-lenearresutlts! Quiet my Head - Agin Madness!! PS 1: I will compensate by putting astrology in the other mail. Letit go as is. PS 2: When you say something - I put my meaning into it. When I say something - You put your meaning into it. This weird thing is usually known as "communication". ) It happens in every sentence everybody speaks to any other! Love, Sreenadh navlakshya , "vinita kumar" <shankar_mamta@ wrote: Dear Shreenadh, I thought that there should be a pause and I shouldn't write fora while on any of the forums. I very often need pauses. Just to be still inside. But then i read your poem to your fiancee andthought i could share what i wrote a couple of days ago about the HAWK. WAITING FOR THE HAWK One half a flower The other a sewer What do I do? Will you come hither? The airs that rise The airs I feel The airs that mingle Can they become single? The good the bad The glad the sad The joy unbound The misery I found Can they come together Bound by one tether Rising and rearing To be free of the other? The churning of the oceans The darkness of the seas Enticing light on the surface Afraid to delve deep But the depths where u reside Unseen by the eye The depths where u hide Do u think I can dive? Waiting on the shores Waves lapping the sand Wringing together my hands Why like this do I stand? Afraid of wet feet Afraid of the deep How long will I wait Divided, torn, incomplete? The hawk soars in the sky Waiting for the prey The waves roar for the hour When he will swoop for the slay. (Dont u think it has a happy ending like a Bollywood movie?) Love, Vinita navlakshya , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@ wrote: Dear Vinita ji, We are all split up into two - the head leading one way andthe heart leading the other. Why we the world itself is a split personality with - the law of "Survival of the fittest" ruling the Scientific and Political mind (making life cold like death),and the rule with out rule - love and compassion - making lifepossible! It is better to live with heart - because only there life exists. Again getting personal, I know deep down in my heart (whydoes the heart have to come in the middle of everything, I dontknow), that i dont have the jyotishmati. Jyotishmati is nothing but integrated individuality. It is nothing but a united heart and soul. When heart and soul unites it becomes a whole - and anything whole can understand holistic subjects! I was speaking with heart, but see, now the head comes in and says - I think it is correct to say wholistic than holistic, because that is what we mean! We are still split at times - at times united!And there is always a chance for Jyotishmati in every once at each moment! Forget the stars and shears - All stars and spears are there within! By the way (the head says) - "All holistic predictions comes from the integrated understanding of the brain about the collected information - read prasnamarga to know more about. Because of this exact prediction is possible even without charts, if you are attentive (a good observer), and is allowing you to predict, avoiding the too much controlling and questing of the consciousness orthe head!!" See - what type of head is this! It is talking against itself! Quiet!! Let me listen to a song and feel relaxed....!Let my heart be in charge... One is 9 or 90 it is love that matters One who lives in love is alive........ Life is won with heart and soul, Head always talks Darwinism... I am presenting below a song I wrote for my finance... I love her a lot. I don't know it is good or bad. Comments are not welcome. ;)I give it here just for a change. LOVE ==== Scenario -------- "Love is the alchemy by which stones are converted to Gems". Past (-, -), Present (You & me), or the future (-, -) - Love is the ocean and many get submerged. Now (for us) we are in the center stage. Even a fool become a poet (All poets are fools who forsake everything to follow their dream). Let us share this- I am thankful to you for the love you shared with me I am thankful to you for the moods you shared with me I am thankful to you for the life you shared with me I am thankful to you for everything divine you shared with me Divinity is a flow that persists Giving time is the nature of divine heart Divinity is also known as love Love makes us divine unto death and ever after Life and death are synonyms And I am the pause in between Love and life are synonyms And I am the pause in between How much should I say that I love you? How much should I say that love makes us complete? All I say never makes it whole Whole of it can never be said Love of divine is part of life Keep the divine close to heart Throb of heart is one for us Throb and Throb - it says 'I love' Love is there for all to feel Love is there for all to live By the might of will or fate What could happen - should I say? In an un-forgetful mistake -Love may be lost Lost in the wild - it is heard to find.... Death creeps in - and should we cry? Past is past - and gone with the wind... Everything eternal lost in the wild How to get it back - for life is gone Gone with the wind is the seed unsown Loss or gain? - Who cares? Love is lost means life is lost Wealth or health can't replace it Love is lost means we are lost Lost souls are better dead... I love you and I love the world Love of life is there forever Keep it all, close to your heart Since heart is that - that says 'I love' [sunday morning] ---------------- All I know is that I love All I know is that you love You can make me or take me away Thread of god is weak or strong? You can toss me tease me mother Sister, Spouse (and) my child you are... With the logic I may say I can handle what may come With the heart I may weep My dream of union fragmented.... Am I selfish, am I divine Can't you see that, what is there.... I may speak of you - forever For the past thousand future years It had happened in ancient past It will happen in future as well What that matters is love alone You and me ever replaced...... Blind is love says someone Mad is love says the other What I see through love is good I can't love with logic and head Love may make us Blind and Mad But I should say the truth to you The one who lives in love is alive And without love we are better dead Love a girl or love a boy Love the world or love the god It is love that matters nothing else Girl or world all the same Re-thought ---------- Words are sweet - (they say) 'Sweet words cheat' Sweet or cheat - I weep in love...... Take the truth of unsaid words Follow the path - that you choose.... I am none and you are none Love (is) that plays and dice we are... Make a will or make a wish.... Love and weep needs courage Wealth-poverty, or happy-sad All the duels the world presents Thread of life runs through all Make a will or make a wish.... I will be there for you to see Like a star there in sky.... You will be there for me to see Like a star there in sky.... Part or unite we may choose Hell or heaven we create Will to survive is there with us But we may not be the fittest ones... Dice we are in the ocean of life Someone plays, we turn and fall With will and wish we change their life They may curse us they may praise.... Dice we are but with a will Dice we are but with a heart We may change the course of play And they may take and throw us away.... Lost in the wild we may weep But sweet or sad it is our life.... All those mountains fall apart The power in you is that caused it all... You hurricane all strong and wild You will be cursed by many for sure.... Social morals fall apart Love revolution of heart and soul!! Be powerful or be the weak Make a will or make a wish..... Sink in love or die in love Love is pain that makes you none You in god - but god is pain Love in you - is god divine..... Ps: If there is a heart that echoes these words If there is a heart where I get submerged Then that heart exists and I am not You are me, and I am You............ Love fragrance is there for all Spread this message to all you know....... ======================= OK. Enough! Now back to work, or let us DEAL serious (*_*) astrology. WHO IS ON THE OTHER SIDE? ) Forget all this dear. Feel relaxed. And Enjoy... ) It islove and life that matters, and astrology can wait always. Bye. Love, Sreenadh navlakshya , "vinita kumar" <shankar_mamta@ wrote: Dear Shreenadh, I must thank u from the bottom of my heart, even at the riskof sounding personal, for giving such a detailed reply whichwill take a few readings to sink in....... My guru is stated to have remarked once that if somebodycame to him all thirsty and looking for water he would give him ahandful of salt....to make him more thirsty. Though the thirst is definitely there there are only 24hours in a day to pursue our goals (not necessarily things of utility.....). Again getting personal, I know deep down in my heart (whydoes the heart have to come in the middle of everything, I dontknow), that i dont have the jyotishmati. When i met somebody quite well known in the jyotish circlesin Delhi he advised me to just do sadhana (spiritual practices)rather than pursue astrology. This was none other but KN Rao. His words impressed me a good deal. But for some reason astrology does hold some inexplicable attraction, i cant say why. Love and best wishes in your endeavours! Vinita navlakshya , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@wrote: Dear Vinita ji, When I wrote my message for the second time, afterposting it, I felt that it has a twinge of personal observations. In a astrology discussion it could have been avoided - please pardon. My love and regards to you. We will together try to go into the depthsof the theoretic puzzles you put forward - But I am a slow speed person. Even preparing a small mail takes a lot of time for me.And it could be a problem in our search for answers. Dear Sauvik ji, Vinita ji and All others, There is many subjects we should have clear idea about,such as- 1) The base and system Science and holistic subjects 2) Concepts and research done related to Para Psychology, Dowsing, Hart man Roads, Aura, Raiki......etc 3) Understanding of the basics of Vastu, Yoga, Ayurvedaetc 4) Clear syllabus and subject matter of Astrology etc. Can't we together create a detailed study syllabusand assign the duty of - 1) learning the presenting the basic concepts in it forthe benefit of all. 2) correlating such knowledge with our current knowledge (especially related to science) I think it is a duty some body should undertake. Love, Sreenadh navlakshya , "Sreenadh" <sreesog@ wrote: Dear Vinita ji, Study of astrology is definitely fascinating....butwhat is the end / objective? When we play, do we ask - what is the objective? Whenwe live, do we ask - what is the objective? We play for the joy of living, we live for the joy of living. Similarly we learn for the joy of learning. Forgetthe question on objective and enjoy! Yes, individuals like author of Krishneeya saysthat "It is a system for prediction". If you want to quench you thirst onthis question of objective, you can take that answer. what is the objective? So in this day what is the use of astrology? when they should be beating with time?). What is Karma? Is it possible to grasp the fourth dimension thrustudy of astrology. is this possible????? maybe even time can bend to the call of a mantra, who knows? how to compute the curvature of time with precision? Are we wasting time? Too many questions you ask!!! And most of thosequestions says that you want want everything to be utility based!! It mainly says something about you, and not about the subject you ask about!!! I have heard that the world and almost allthe relations are utility based. And also that in the course we forget our original sense, and start beliving what the current world imposson us losing the true internal freedom of thought and expression.Just a passing thought... OK. I appreciate the questions asked. I have heard that "Asking the right question is at the base of true research". Actually I feel that you should take each of those questions, and then ask to it - is it a right question? Even a single right question asked, and if we sincerely seek answer to it, it canchange our life, it can change our outlook, one can write many books onthe same, and one would be inventor of many new things! But theproblem is we always ask, and never seek! We always ask, but nevertake time to ponder and spend enough time for a single question, and take time to verify whether it is a right question! We always ask,and expect others to provide the answers! We ask, about intricaciesof the subjects we haven't yet studied properly, and don't wantto waste time even to listen to the answers, because we are more after the objective / the result of that exercise! Actually wedon't want the answers but the results! Actually we don't want the answers, because we are enjoying in our ability to ask questions! How twisted the mind is - it cheats the one who owns it!! If we ask - What is Mind - can we get an answer? If we ask - What is Life - can we get an answer? If we ask - What is Soul - can we get an answer? If we ask - What is GOD - can we get an answer? Yes, we can go on speaking about the things we don'tknow completely. And thus all definitions would be erroneous. Simply take the question- Can we describe the colorgreen to a person who is color blind? Would those descriptions be sufficient? If we say thatit is a color- are we conveying anything to him? If we say that it is color of an electro magnetic ray with a particular wave length arewe conveying anything to him? Can we describe light to a person who is blind? If we say that light is composed of photons areconveying anything? If we say that light causes plants to do photo synthesis are we conveying anything? "Answers on concepts are always imperfect"!!! If the collective consciousness of the 2 persons have the same idea within about that then only some thing gets conveyed!!! The pity is there is only 2 things in the world - facts and concepts. Even facts goes into the mind throughsensation and perception and become concepts!! So the whole knowledge becomes imperfect! - But still we can enjoy life, love, learning and following our inquisitiveness. If we want to mystify - everything is a mystery - without exception!!! 1) Past events can be predicted more easily (perhaps)....they have already happened. But what about future where the real challenges lie. 2) Astrology is a fantastic tool which may make us get fleeting glimpses of the REALITY (perhaps) 3) But to use astrology to make predictions about one'sown future or somebody else's future may not be the best way to spend time (perhaps). 4) Now what is karma is another thing (perhaps) ) There is too many (perhaps) and you should better learn to live with it. ) PS: If sincere, take a single question at a time, andlet us join hands to - 1) Think about them. 2) Collect and present the answers for that questionfor the benefit of all. 3) Make tools and logical systems to test/verify the ideas. etc. I feel that is the right path of enquiry. Love, Sreenadh navlakshya , "vinita kumar" <shankar_mamta@ wrote: Dear Souvik, Shreenadh, all, Shreenadh says Astrology is Kala Tantra...a means of knowing time. The world as we can grasp it is three dimensional. The moment the 4th dimension of time is introduced it is so difficultto conceptualise it. But even so, if some people cangrasp the fourth dimension thru study of astrology it would be a great thing. The question is ..... is this possible????? Is thispossible with the tools of astrology present with us...or something moreis required? First is the question of time of birth. The kind of prolonged excercises that are undertaken even when computers doall the calculations...and what for? when we dont even knowthe time of birth accurately? Maybe casting a prashna chart wouldbe more accurate - but what should be the question and how to interpret the answer when things are not always clear. So in this day what is the use of astrology? O.K. everyone wants to know what the future holds for them. They want to beat time (when they should be beating with time?). Can time bebeaten? But time is not linear.... as they say in physics....if we are to track time how to compute its curvature with precision? Study of astrology is definitely fascinating....butwhat is the end / objective? To say something is to happen with100 per cent accuracy 100 per cent of the time. Is this possible??? Past events can be predicted more easily (perhaps)....they have already happened. But what about future where the real challenges lie. How can we understand time? Souvik, u in your earlier posts used to talk of macro and micro. The macro vision is nice and more predictable....the broad tendencies where margin of errors can be ignored because the picture is large. But to get an accurate micro picture right all the time is what may not be possible for most mortals. Because in the micro world the dynamism is so great and the probabilities so immense...that it becomes a herculean task, if not an impossible task. There is the principle ofuncertainty by Heisenberg which i dont understand...but have got onlya whiff of...There is also the role of the observer in the experiements conducted in quanturm mechanics where the end resultof the experiment is dependant on the observer...the sub-atomic world is sooooooo dynamic. So maybe even time can bend to the call of a mantra or the call of a sincere observer, who knows? We are all curious to know who we are and what is existence all about. Astrology is a fantastic tool which may make us get fleeting glimpses of the REALITY (perhaps). But to useastrology to make predictions about one's own future or somebody else's future may not be the best way to spend time (perhaps). I know on many counts this mail may sound offensive....though offending anyone is the last thing on my mind. Souvik said we can freeely express our opinion on this forum. An opinion may spring from very very limited knowledge as in my case. But i look at it as a way of exploring my beliefs which in any case are nothing much to go on. But still they are there because of my present level of underdevelopment / ignorance.....and till there issome experience of TRUTH which in any case i dont have the foggiestabout. So are we wasting time when we should be spending timeon other richer things like being totally involved in thepresent moment and doing our karma to the best of our ability??? Now whatis karma is another thing (perhaps)........Are we doing a serviceor a disservice by reading the future of others or our own future when we all should be dealing with what time doles out to uswith a happy acceptance of the inevitable? Thanks! Vinita navlakshya , "Sreenadh"<sreesog@ wrote: Dear Souvik ji, Every subject has its merit. Let us learn thesubject, explore its scope, merits and demerits and then only, accept or discard it. Till then it is better to continue the study in adetached manner but still keep the inquisitiveness for knowledge andideas. The process takes time and the first step is understanding the foundations of the subjects at hand. If we don't do it then we don'thave the right to criticize it as well! But this law is violated, when the other man has special purpose kept in his mind. For example, a rationalist WILL criticize the religion with out following or tryingto understand mediation or prayer. A person who wants to make the weak believe in their own mental power WILL discard and criticizeall the subjects that is against this idea. (and thus Vivekananda) Buddha who wants common people to the ultimate faith that is GOD,WILL try to train people by discarding any other beliefs, that makes people believe in GOD. It is the PURPOSE that is acting behind - AndNOT the true idea about the subject! That is why Buddha was asupporter of the "Theory of many births" - have a look at the "Bodhisatwa strories"! Neither Buddha nor Vivekananda studied astrology. Buddha was an enlightened individual and the guru of Vivekananda, Ramakrishna parama hamsa was an enlightened individual. We arenone to criticize the enlightened individuals, since we will surelyfail to understand their place, since they are higher above us. Whatthose enlightened individuals tell us about the atma, mind and thepath of meditation is more important to us than there knowledge and understanding in technical subjects or there comments on astrology, vastru, ayurveda or anything else. With joined hands we bow beforethem, and let there advice show us the correct path in spirituality. Buddha said: "Those that get a living by calculation of the starsby such art and other lying tricks are to be avoided" He is right, as we know even today - if astrologyis used for money making and a livelihood by some, then selfishness is sure to rise, and pure knowledge will go astray. But yes, one more thing, an individual who believes in "Many births theory" cannot discard astrology. But, yes, of course, Buddha was beyondall beliefs and i feel it is our understanding of Buddha is theproblem here- the problem lies with us and not with Buddha. Yes, Right thought and Right action are better than running to the astrologer. After all what a common man expect froma good astrologer also just advice in the direction of Right thoughtand Right action in that particular situation I think. I don't think astrology is better than the right thought and right action in a particular situation - especially when we are supposed to follow "Swadharma". But- (1) How to determine right thought and right actionin technical subjects? (2) How to determine right thought and right actionin spiritual subjects? (3) How to determine right thought and right actionin hundreds of practical issues/events? Some body needs help, and some note. Some of themwho needs help ran to the astrologer, and the astrologer try to do the same with all the knowledge and tools he poses. Yes, at times this has even a negative effect as well. But why the subject astrology should be cursed for this? As far as I know the Buddha and Jayne religions,gave adequate support to astrology, and same is the case withHindu religion. Christ was not against astrology, and Arabicastrology is very popular. Astrology in essence does not have any relation to religion or caste. I think "Vivekanada" never studied astrology in its true spirit, and the purpose of his whole efforts were different. Hewas not after enlightenment but after refining and renewing the Indians and their mentality. I would say - it is better to study astrology as a subject, clear the mind with meditation for the right thought and right action to spring up in a flash from within, and live the usual and natural life. Better not to believe in anything as Osho said, since when we say "I believe", it certainly means that there isa small amount of disbelief with in! We never used to say that "I believe in sun" because sun is a reality to us and only trust exists and no belief!! If we realize the truth of something then trust will emerge and then belief won't be a necessity. So it is better toadvice, Don't believe in anything, no, not even in astrology. Not even in god. When it happens, or when the truth becomes revealed to you, then there onwards, belief will not be a necessity, becausetrust will take over. I urge all NOT to believe in astrology, but stillto study astrology, and feel its beauty. I urge all NOT to believe in GOD, but still to do meditation, and feel its beauty. Why worry - everybody said right only, but in their own context. So be happy, and enjoy life. Love, Sreenadh navlakshya , "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan@ wrote: Dear members, Swami Vivekananda's words. "Excessive attention to the minutiae of astrologyis one of the superstitions which has hurt the Hindus very much. Weak men, when they lose everything and feel themselves weak, try all sorts of uncanny methods of making money, and come to astrology and all these things. "It is the coward and the fool who says, 'This is fate'" - so says the Sanskrit proverb. But it is the strong man who stands up and says, "I will make my fate." Buddhasays, "Those that get a living by calculation of the stars by such art and other lying tricks are to be avoided"; and he ought to know, because he was the greatest Hindu ever born. You will find that astrology and all these mystical things are generally signs of a weakmind; therefore as soon as they are becoming prominent in our minds,we should see a physician, take good food and rest. " These were the wise words of Swami Vivekananda.Swami was highly critical of Astrology. " So what is the use ofgoing to stars for explanation? " he would ask. " It is our duty to ignore them rather than hearken to them and make ourselves nervous.This I lay down as the first essential in all I teach: anything that brings spiritual, mental, or physical weakness, touch it not withthe toes of your feet. If you want your nation to live, keep awayfrom all these things. These superstitious ideas are springinglike mushrooms in your country. " I heard similar criticsm from Swami RamdevjiMaharaj where he criticized astrologers. Is there truth in the statement of these sages?What should be the role of the astrologer in a exponentiallydeveloping society like that of India? Should there be some self-imposed restrictions observed by an astrologer? If so, what should be they? Upto what extent does an astrologer have the moral right to intrude into a native's chart? Does he/she have the right to doso? I would like to know the view of the respected members of this forum on this topic. Thanks Souvik