RE: To Ash and all others

December 18, 2007

Dear Ash,

Yes, agreed that the rules to interpret a chart must be fixed. But

to interpret a chart we need to have a correct chart in the first

place. Shouldn't we? First comes the chart and then comes the rules.

The problem is, using different ayanamsa we get different planetary

positions. Say, for example, Venus in initial degrees of Leo may be

placed in Cancer when we use a different ayanamsa. See for my

cousin's chart you got Moon in Lagna, when as per Lahiri, it is in

12th. No need of saying how drastically it will affect the

interpretation. If the first step itself is wrong how can we assume

the second step to be correct? (Which is right and which is wrong is

the main problem here:))

Now coming to the rules, so far I haven't read any contradictory

rules. But now the KAS theory seems to be very different.

Anyway, there is no point in discussing the ayanamsa issues and even

the rules.

By the way, does anybody know which ayanamsa did Parashara, Kalyana

Varma or the people of the parampara whom we follow used? The sages

didnt have any confusion about ayanamsa(or did they?), why do we have

so much of confusion???

Regards,

Jyothi

, " Ash " <kas

wrote:

>

> Dear Jyothi,

>

> If the rules to interpret a chart and the data to work on is agreed

by all,

> then ayanamsa can be checked. If the rules are not fixed, how can

one check

> ayanamsa? This is common sense eh.

>

> So those people who want to test the effacy of their ayanamsa,

should also

> give the set of rules that are fixed and can be tested on each and

every

> chart. Otherwise if that is not fixed, there can be no test of

ayanamsa.

> So then what does one do? They can only have faith in their teacher

and

> their own hard work to find the rules that work consistently in all

charts

> and after spending years, decades (because the texts are not

complete that

> are available) then u can use those laws that u find working

consistently in

> all charts, to test the ayanamsa.

>

> I think it is as simple as that.

>

> KAS gives u fixed set of rules, rest is upto those who want to test

their

> ayanamsa. The points will be fixed so say someone working with BV

Ramans

> ayanamsa, and someone say working with Lahiri can both cast the

chart, using

> the KAS, both of them will get a worksheet which will have power of

planets

> based on fixed set of rules. Then they can test the dashas which

also has

> fixed set of rules. Even the D charts casted will have fixed

power for

> each house.

>

> The system is out there should someone or anyone want to check the

ayanamsa.

>

> Cheers !!!

>

> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> _____

>

> On Behalf Of

> jyothi_b_lakshmi

> Tuesday December 18, 2007 11:52 AM

>

> Re: To Ash

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> Thanks a lot for your efforts. Frankly speaking, this ayanamsa

thing

> drives me crazy. There is a list of doyens who have invented their

> own ayanamsas and claim them to be the true one. People like me,

who

> dont have the knowledge, time, sincerity and above all the quest to

> find which is the true one, are at a loss. I for myself just check

> which one gives results closer to real life experience and stick to

> that. Even that cannot give accurate results consistently. So when

> each value has only 50% chance of success how can we finalise which

> is the correct one? Truth can only be ONE irrespective of who finds

> it. I wonder how different people get different values for the same

> entity. If we consider the possiblity of humane errors, then

anybody

> can go wrong(though nobody will accept their mistake). May be

> somebody else will come up with another value. Even then, there is

no

> guarantee that he/she can accurately predict events with

consistency.

> The universe existed the same way before and after the discovery of

> gravitational force. Same way, our future will evolve and will

> continue to evolve as a half solved mystery irrespective of any

> ayanamsa discovery. Sometimes I feel, we are man-handling this

divine

> science. A rose when looked through a microscope displays the ugly

> collection of cells. Aren't we destroying the beauty of astrology

as

> a divine science by not being able to see the forest for the

trees??

> True or false, everybody will be having an ayanamsa which they find

> to be fine wrt their experience. If faith can move mountains, I

think

> having faith in one ayanamsa, be it anybody's, will show near to

> accurate results. I will not say 100% accurate results because,

that

> will be over estimating the ability of a human being when he is

only

> a minute part of this macrocosm. We cannot anyway customise events

to

> fit an ayanamsa. If there is any mismatch, let it be. Why must we

try

> to perfect ourselves when we are actually not perfect? Aren't we

> fools to believe that we can solve the mystery that Divine power

has

> interwoven with his creation, when we ourselves know that the

mystery

> cannot be solved even if we try for eons??

>

> Ashji, you might be wondering why all of a sudden I am saying all

> these to you. I am sorry I couldnt help writing. Please take it as

an

> uncontrollable outflow of my thoughts. Nothing specific to you,

> actually. It just happened that my thoughts found an outlet on

> reading your mail, may be the reference to ayanamsa triggered my

> thoughts. Otherwise it has got no connection with you.

>

> Regards,

> Jyothi

>

> ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology , " Ash " <kas@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jyothi,

> >

> > Thank you for your quick reply and offering the chart of your

> cousin.

> >

> > With Krushna's Ayanamsa for this chart I am not getting Moon in

2nd

> house

> > but instead I am getting Moon in 1st house.

> >

> > Mars has 0 points in the 5th house. Mars is lord of 11th and 6th

> so karak

> > for conception (as per KAS we check 11th and 5th both for a

womans

> chart for

> > conception). Both Mars and Rahu are aspecting 8th house as well

> and overall

> > points for 5th house are less except for Ju and Mo. You can check

> in the

> > snapshot of the points attached.

> >

> > KAY:

> >

> > 22:39:23

> >

> > Jyothi, what was your cousins marriage date? If she Married in

> Saturn antra

> > then that has low points i.e. 11 for 7th house and 19 for 11th

> house.

> >

> > Saturn

> >

> > 2001-Apr-23

> >

> > 2003-Nov-04

> >

> > Cheers !!!

> >

> > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca>

http://www.ashtro.

> <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca

> >

> > _____

> >

> > ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology

> > [ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> astrology ] On Behalf Of

> > jyothi_b_lakshmi

> > Tuesday December 18, 2007 1:26 AM

> > ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology

> > Re: To Ash

> >

> > Dear Ash,

> >

> > Here are the details of my cousin:

> > DOB: Oct 4th, 1977

> > TOB: 12.05 am (past midnight, 00:05hrs in 24 hour format)

> > Place: Calicut

> >

> > Not only that she has a weak eyesight, her only son who is three

> > years old seems to be autistic.

> >

> > (Her Moon is not in 2nd, it is in 12th-exalted)

> >

> > Regards,

> > Jyothi

> >

> > ancient_indian_ <%

> 40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com, " Ash "

> <kas@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jyothi,

> > >

> > > For my learning and should be comfortable, can you please let

me

> > know, for

> > > your cousin who has Gemini lagna and Mo in 2nd house who has

poor

> > eyesight,

> > > where is her Jupiter and the degree of Jupiter. Can you also

tell

> > me the

> > > ayanamsa that you use to get the degree of Jupiter please.

> > >

> > > Thanking you,

> > >

> > > Cheers !!!

> > >

> > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.

<http://www.ashtro.ca>

> ca> ca>

> http://www.ashtro.

> > <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca> ca

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ <%

> 40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > [ancient_indian_

> > <%40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com]

On Behalf

> Of

> > > jyothi_b_lakshmi

> > > Friday December 14, 2007 1:16 AM

> > > ancient_indian_ <%

> 40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > Re: To Ashji

> > >

> > > Dear Ash,

> > >

> > > Well, I got your point. But what you say is against what I have

> > known

> > > so far. As per what I know, 12 is a Dusthana and so is its

lord.

> I

> > > would like to know what you say of 12th lord, because you say

> 12th

> > is

> > > the most auspicious house. Is the 12th lord also auspicious or

is

> > it

> > > only the 12th house?

> > >

> > > In my observation, what you said doesnt seem to fit well. For

> > > example, I have seen a number of divorce charts. In all of them

> one

> > > common placement that I have noticed is 7th lord in 12th.

(There

> > can

> > > be other factors as well, but let us not consider that now). So

> > > according to what you say, the person should enjoy a good

> conjugal

> > > life as the 7th house results must be enhanced. Right? Why is

it

> > not

> > > happening? (I hope you wont bring the car analogy of 4th house

> > here;

> > > Nobody really wishes to have an extra marital affair, I

guess:),

> > > unless other wise forced by situation.)

> > > I have also seen my cousins chart who is Gemini Asc with Moon

> > exalted

> > > in 12th. As 2nd stands for eyes, its results must be enhanced.

> But

> > > her vision is very poor and without her high power lens she

> cannot

> > > see anything. I am not trying to contradict you, but only that

I

> am

> > > not able to find the KAS theory true with respect to the charts

I

> > > know. I can agree if you say that the results of the house

owned

> by

> > > the planet in 12th will be negatively enhanced or affected. At

> > least

> > > that is what I have seen.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Jyothi

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > 40>

> > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

> ps.com, " Ash "

> > <kas@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jyothi,

> > > >

> > > > Please refer to me as Ash.

> > > >

> > > > 12th house of a chart and 12th from a house are different.

> > > >

> > > > So 12th from 3rd house would be 2nd house and 12th house of

the

> > > chart is the

> > > > 12th house which is fixed.

> > > >

> > > > So 12th house of a chart is the most auspicious house and any

> > > planets placed

> > > > in the 12th house would enhance the house ruled by them.

> > > >

> > > > Lets take an example of Aries lagna and let us assume Moon is

> > > placed in the

> > > > 12th house in pisces. So this would mean that the RESULTS of

> 4th

> > > house

> > > > would be enhanced.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, before I proceed any further let me emphasize that I

> > > distinguish

> > > > Quality of an event from Timing of Event. These are 2

different

> > > things.

> > > >

> > > > Quality of an event is controlled by the Status of the Karak

> > planet.

> > > >

> > > > For example, if 2nd house is spoilt (8th from any house is

the

> > > karak sthan

> > > > and natural karak is from kal purush chart) so if the karak

is

> > > spoilt then

> > > > the RESULTS of 7th house will be spoilt and as per VA we

> > generally

> > > say that

> > > > if Venus (natural 2nd lord if its spoilt then persons marital

> > life

> > > will be

> > > > spoilt).

> > > >

> > > > So now, here when I am saying that a planet is placed in 12th

> > house

> > > of the

> > > > chart, then the house ruled by that planet will get enhanced.

> As

> > an

> > > > analogy, to explain the difference between timing of event

and

> > > quality, I

> > > > can say is that, assume a person's 4th house (timing of

event)

> is

> > > not

> > > > powerful means he himself can't even own a car or a house but

> at

> > > the same

> > > > time but 4th lord is in 12th means the quality is enhanced,

so

> > such

> > > a person

> > > > might enjoy a house and a car maybe not owned by him by it

> might

> > be

> > > given by

> > > > his company where he or she is working or maybe friends etc.

So

> > > one is

> > > > quality and the other is timing of event. This is just an

> analogy.

> > > >

> > > > So once we are clear with what I am trying to explain, I will

> > > answer your

> > > > questions below.

> > > >

> > > > 1) 10th lord in 9th house means 10th house is loosing status.

> > > 10th is

> > > > karak for 3rd house i.e. Parakram, the reason we find the

> Career

> > of

> > > a person

> > > > from 10th house from lagna sun and moon. So now this 10th

lord

> is

> > > in 9th so

> > > > its in 12th house from 10th, so its loosing status but its in

> 9th

> > > house a

> > > > Kona. 10th is physical plane and 9th is a spiritual plane. So

> > > here such a

> > > > person depends more on dharam, faith, luck etc.

> > > >

> > > > 2) The 9th lord when it goes in 10th house so that means that

> > > 9th lord

> > > > is in its dhan sthan, but the 10th house is getting spoilt as

> > 12th

> > > from

> > > > B=10th lord is now resident in 10th house. So such a person

is

> > > more towards

> > > > dharm, more spiritual. 10th house means karma.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Now taking it one step ahead. 10th lord is in 9th house

and

> > > now it

> > > > means that it is in 10th house from 12th the house of

enjoyment

> > and

> > > > pleasures so if its with more power i.e more than 4 bindus

> which

> > > means that

> > > > itself and 7 planets are making a favorable yog so it will

> > trigger

> > > 12th

> > > > house and 4th house both are 2 of moksh triplicity. Means

> during

> > > the antra

> > > > of such a planet the person will be more lucky, and might

have

> to

> > > put in

> > > > less effort.

> > > >

> > > > 4) 9th house is opposite of 3rd house. 3rd house is that of

> > > effort and

> > > > parakram and 9th is opposite of that so u say the house where

u

> > get

> > > things

> > > > without putting in effort or in other words, lucky,

fortunate.

> > Both

> > > are on

> > > > spiritual planes but 3rd is kama and 9th is dharma trikon.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, u are right, we say that 10th lord in 9th and 9th lord

in

> > 10th

> > > is

> > > > dharma karma adipati yoga and a Raj Yog.

> > > >

> > > > Raj yog means one can have good status, have subordinates,

have

> > good

> > > > authority.

> > > >

> > > > Now a spiritual person also might have lots of bhakts, and

the

> > CEO

> > > of a

> > > > large company also might have lots of subordinates. Both have

> good

> > > > authority but there is a difference :-).

> > > >

> > > > So a planet in 12th house from the house it owns so that

house

> > > looses status

> > > > and a planet when it is in 12TH HOUSE OFA CHART means the

> results

> > > ruled by

> > > > that planet is enhanced.

> > > >

> > > > Actually, as per VA, 8th lord in 12th, 6th lord in 12th and

3rd

> > > lord in 12th

> > > > are called VRY isn't it. So here if 6th lord goes in 12th

then

> > 6th

> > > house is

> > > > enhanced, 8th lord goes in 12th then 8th house is enhanced

and

> > 3rd

> > > lord goes

> > > > in 12th then 3rd house is enhanced, actually this is

applicable

> > to

> > > all

> > > > houses.

> > > >

> > > > Cheers !!!

> > > >

> > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.

> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca>

> > ca> ca>

> > http://www.ashtro.

> > > <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca>

ca> ca>

> ca

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > 40>

> > > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > > [ancient_indian_

> > > <%40>

> > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com]

> On Behalf

> > Of

> > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi

> > > > Wednesday December 12, 2007 11:51 PM

> > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > 40>

> > > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > > Re: To Ashji

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ashji,

> > > >

> > > > I was going through the articles posted in your web site.

This

> is

> > > > what I understood from one of the articles.

> > > > (http://www3.

> > > > <http://www3.

> > > <http://www3.

> > <http://www3.

> <http://www3.telus.net/public/elijahn/Pages/TimingOfMarriage.htm>

> telus.net/public/elijahn/Pages/TimingOfMarriage.htm>

> > telus.net/public/elijahn/Pages/TimingOfMarriage.htm>

> > > telus.net/public/elijahn/Pages/TimingOfMarriage.htm>

> > > > telus.net/public/elijahn/Pages/TimingOfMarriage.htm)

> > > >

> > > > If the lord of bhava X is posited in the 12th sign from X,

then

> > the

> > > > bhava X gets spoilt. Similarly, if a bhava lord is posited in

> the

> > > > 2nd sign from the bhava, then that 2nd bhava gets spoilt

> (because

> > > > 12th lord from it is posited there).

> > > >

> > > > If this is the case as per KAS, could you please tell me, how

> you

> > > > look at 10th lord posited in 9th and 9th lord posited in 10th

> > > > (exchange)? As per KAS, both the bhavas must get spoilt and

the

> > > > native must have a miserable life (unfortunate, jobless?).

But

> > this

> > > > exchange as far as I know, gives dharma karmadhipa yoga,

which

> is

> > a

> > > > Raja Yoga. Please let me know your comments.

> > > >

> > > > Also this seems contradictory to what you wrote in the below

> > > > mail. " As per KAS, 12th house is considered the most

auspicious

> > > > house and any planet that goes in 12th house then the house

> ruled

> > > by

> > > > them gets enhanced. "

> > > >

> > > > If the 12th lord from Lagna is considered auspicious, why

can't

> > the

> > > > 12th lord from a bhava be auspicious to that bhava?

> > > >

> > > > I hope I didnt go wrong in my understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Jyothi

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > 40>

> > > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

> > ps.com, " Ash "

> > > <kas@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kiran and Goel,

> > > > >

> > > > > I would also like to share my view.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3rd lord in 8th house would mean that 3rd lord has gone

into

> > its

> > > > primary

> > > > > upachaya sthan. (6th and 10th are primary upachaya and 3rd

> and

> > > > 11th are

> > > > > secondary). So as Karak for 8th house (3rd is 8th from 3rd)

> is

> > > > enhanced.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3rd lord I 12th house can be viewed in 2 fold manner. As

per

> > > > KAS, 12th

> > > > > house is considered the most auspicious house and any

planet

> > that

> > > > goes in

> > > > > 12th house then the house ruled by them gets enhanced. This

> is

> > > > for quality.

> > > > > So 3rd lord in 12th house would mean that the RESULTS i.e.

> > > quality

> > > > of 3rd

> > > > > house is enhanced.

> > > > >

> > > > > Second part is that 3rd lord goes in the 10th house from

3rd

> > i.e.

> > > > in primary

> > > > > upachaya sthan. So again it goes into the house of

Authority

> > from

> > > > 3rd and

> > > > > since its upachaya sthan then the meaning is growth,

> prosperity

> > > > heap.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now 3rd lord in 6th house, so here for 6th house under

focus

> so

> > > > say u are

> > > > > timing event for Job or Authority, then for 10th house, 3rd

> > house

> > > > becomes

> > > > > primary upachaya and for 6th house under focus i.e. say u

are

> > > > timing job

> > > > > then 3rd house becomes 10th from 6th.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regarding aspects, a benefic planet i.e. a planet with more

> > than

> > > 4

> > > > bindu (it

> > > > > can be mars and Saturn as well - as long as it has more

than

> 4

> > > > bindus means

> > > > > its benefic) so such a planet will have equal and opposite

> > aspect

> > > > so, say if

> > > > > Jupiter has +5 bindus then its aspect will be with -5 on

7th,

> > 5th

> > > > and 9th

> > > > > house.

> > > > >

> > > > > So Jupiter will do good for the house it is placed it but

at

> > the

> > > > cost of 3

> > > > > other house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Similarly, Mars and Saturn if they are with less than 4

> bindus

> > > > (which is

> > > > > generally the case as Ma and Sa have only 39 bindus each in

> > SAV),

> > > > so they

> > > > > will be malefic for the house they are placed in but their

> > > aspects

> > > > will be

> > > > > beneficial on 3 other house.

> > > > >

> > > > > A natural malefic in 6th house if it is there and with more

> > than

> > > 4

> > > > bindus

> > > > > then its aspect will be beneific for quality but for timing

> we

> > > > consider it

> > > > > with equal and opposite so say if Mars is 6th lord and in

6th

> > > > house with say

> > > > > 5 bindus then for timing of event you consider the aspect

to

> be

> > > > with -5 on

> > > > > 9th, 12th and 1st house but for quality, you double the

> points

> > > and

> > > > its

> > > > > aspect will enhance the quality of the house it aspects.

> > > > >

> > > > > For your 3rd point, 6th lord in 6th, 8th lord in 8th and

12th

> > > lord

> > > > in 12th

> > > > > one must also consider the dual lord ships of the planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cheers !!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Ash -> <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.

> > <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.ca>

ca> ca>

> > > ca> ca>

> > > http://www.ashtro.

> > > > <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro. <http://www.ashtro.

> <http://www.ashtro.ca> ca>

> ca> ca>

> > ca

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > 40>

> > > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com

> > > > > [ancient_indian_

> > > > <%40>

> > > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

> ps.com]

> > On Behalf

> > > Of

> > > > Gopal Goel

> > > > > Wednesday December 12, 2007 4:53 AM

> > > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > 40>

> > > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com;

> > > kiran.rama

> > > > > Re: To Sreenadhji:

> > > > >

> > > > > dear Kiranji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I may like to share my views on the queries raised by you :

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Phaldeepica ch 6 gives nice indication about placement

of

> > > house

> > > > lords in

> > > > > various houses.. Houses 1,2,4,5,7,9,10,and 11 are good

houses.

> > > > >

> > > > > If their lords are placed in these houses , they yield good

> > > > results.

> > > > >

> > > > > Houses 3,6,8,and 12 are in bad category. If 3rd lord will

be

> > > > placed in 8th

> > > > > house, will yield to bad results.The native will have

> thievish

> > > > tendencies,

> > > > > may be punished by authorities,will serve others for his

> > > > livelihood. He

> > > > > becomes the cause of his own death. These results will not

> > apply

> > > > to Virgo

> > > > > and PISCES ascendants.

> > > > >

> > > > > The native of Scorpio ascendant may have inborn criminal

> > > > tendencies , yet he

> > > > > will hide himself. Please remember , pada of 3rd house will

> > fall

> > > > in Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Malefic 3L in 8th will give more problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.Malefic if occupying or aspecting will obstruct the

> > > > signification of the

> > > > > house in its period , provided it is not Vargottama , in

> > > > own ,exaltation or

> > > > > friendly signs.

> > > > >

> > > > > House lord if well placed and strong will try to reduce the

> > > impact

> > > > of

> > > > > malefic association to the house.House Karka 's strength

will

> > > also

> > > > protect

> > > > > the house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly study Ch -10 of Jatak deshmarg by Somayaji.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. 6 ,8 and 12 houses are negative houses , and if their

> lords

> > > are

> > > > placed in

> > > > > these houses , some negative results will also come to pass.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara says, " If 6L IN 6TH ,The native will have enmity

with

> > his

> > > > own

> > > > > kinsmen and friendship with others,mediocre wealth, sound

> > health.

> > > > >

> > > > > Retrograde planets give chronic diseases.A weak 8L in 8th

> will

> > > not

> > > > be good

> > > > > for longevity, and its actions will bring dishonour to him,

> he

> > > > will be in

> > > > > habit to blame others.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > G.K.GOEL

> > > > > Ph: 09350311433

> > > > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

> > > > > NEW DELHI-110 076

> > > > > INDIA

> > > > >

> > > > > Kiran R <kiran.rama@>

> > > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > 40>

> > > > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com

> > > > > Wednesday, 12 December, 2007 10:24:46 AM

> > > > > To Sreenadhji:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a few doubts and I want to bridge my gaps in

> > understanding

> > > > on the

> > > > > same:

> > > > > Please help me in doing so:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) If a house lord is in dustana: Say the 3rd lord is in

the

> > 8th

> > > > house, Will

> > > > > it cause obstructions to the significations of the 3H only

in

> > the

> > > > period of

> > > > > the 3rd lord or in the period of 8th lord also?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Will aspect/occupation of a house by malefic cause

> > obstruction

> > > > to the

> > > > > significations of the house only during the period of the

> > malefic

> > > > or during

> > > > > periods of the house lord also?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) If a dustana lord is in his own house (e.g: 8th lord in

> 8th,

> > > > 6th lord in

> > > > > 6th, 12th lord in 12th), does it mean that both good and

bad

> > > > significations

> > > > > of the house will be amplified. e.g: Will 8th lord in 8th

> house

> > > > cause

> > > > > increased longevity, large debts, many diseases and poverty?

> > > > > Or is it that house lord in his own house will amplify only

> > good

> > > > things of

> > > > > the house?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Kiran

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Venkittaraman ji,

> > > > > That was a beutiful, informative mail. Thanks.

> > > > > Love and regards,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > > 40>

> > > > > astrology, Venkataraman Hari

> > > > > <venkataraman_ hari@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Seenadhji,

> > > > > > Namaskaram. Your are obsalutely correct that Apa: is

> > > > > not mere water.Apa: is also not equilent to Jala or

Naara.But

> > in

> > > > this

> > > > > sloka. in this particular referance the Narayana sabda, the

> > world

> > > > > Naara refers only to Apa in its full sense.i.e. Apo va

idagum

> > > > Sarvam,

> > > > > Apa: plunanthu Prithvi, Vishva Bhootani Apa:, Prano va Apa:

> The

> > > > > inherant power in the water which is one in Pancha Bhootas.

> Who

> > > > > sleeps on the water is not somebody sleepin over it :but

the

> > > > inherent

> > > > > power or Divinity in it. Apo vai sarva Devata: All the

> Devatas

> > > are

> > > > > in the water.It is a consolidated force capable of

Creation,

> > > > > Sustinance and destruction. When we worshipl water in pot

in

> > our

> > > > > vaidic poojas who ever may be the deity we proficiate the

> > > > potential

> > > > > Primordial power/ Divinity is worshiped in that form and

> name.

> > > The

> > > > > same is with Agni also. That is why the Veda says " YoApam

> > Pushpam

> > > > > Veda pushpavan Prajavan Pasuman Bhavati " One who realises

> that

> > > > > the water is the cretive energy-primordial force for

> > > > > > creation then he becomes the person of blossemed or

> realised,

> > > > man

> > > > > attainments, man of prosperity i.e. contentment. Primordial

> > > Ocean,

> > > > > the Milky Ocean represents Suddha Sathva Energy. Puranas

> gives

> > > the

> > > > > entire thing in a beautiful descrilption Sriman Narayan

with

> > > > Mother

> > > > > Lakshmi,daughter o;f the ocean, sleeps on Adi Sesha the

> > > Primordial

> > > > > Prana Shakti.

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > Hari Venkataraman.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@ > wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Venkataraman ji,

> > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > " Apo Naara Iti Prokta Apovai Narasoonavah: Tayatasyayanan

> > > > Poorvam

> > > > > Tena Naryana Smritih: Apa means Water.

> > > > > > <==

> > > > > > Apa is NOT water - if it was mere water they would have

> used

> > > the

> > > > > word 'Jala' or some other synonym for water, but will not

> > resort

> > > > to

> > > > > the consistent use of the word 'Apa'. In a better way -

'Apa'

> > > > > means 'Primordial ocean' or the 'stuff of primordial

occean'

> > (or

> > > > call

> > > > > it higgs ocean in modern terms). It is the ocean/water from

> > which

> > > > > everything sprouts - i.e. life, cosmic spears, and the

> universe

> > > > > itself. 'Apa' and 'Nara' are interchangeable words -

meaning

> > the

> > > > > same, pointing to the same 'primordial occean'.

> > > > > > Love and regards,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > > > 40>

> > > > > astrology, Venkataraman Hari

> > > > > <venkataraman_ hari@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear sir,

> > > > > > > You are quite correct in a way. Wben we read or try to

> > > > understand

> > > > > Vedic hims we should not confuse ourselves with Puranic

> Stores.

> > > > Veda

> > > > > fully speaks in a cosmic form. To understand we require an

> > > > > extraordinary understanding power and unbiased views and

open

> > > > mind.

> > > > > Where ever Narayana Sabda or the name of the Vishnu is

> > mentioned

> > > > > there the All pervading aspect of Brahman or Supreme Power

is

> > > > > described.Vyapakatv at Vishnu ; " Again it is said " Apo

Naara

> > Iti

> > > > > Prokta Apovai Narasoonavah: Tayatasyayanan Poorvam Tena

> Naryana

> > > > > Smritih: Apa means Water. From water every thing sprouts..

> Who

> > is

> > > > just

> > > > > sleeping on it is Narayana. Water is energising Power-

Energy.

> > > > > Agnerapa: from fire the water came- says the Upanishad. But

> > Agni

> > > > > evaporate Water and Water subsides Agni. Both are the

> different

> > > > forms

> > > > > of all pervading energy. Veda says Agna Vishno Sajoshadema

> > > > Vardandtu

> > > > > magirah: Here Agni denotes Sri Rudra and Rudra and Vlishnu

> are

> > > > both

> > > > > identical just like two sides of a coin. Both are

> > > > > > > all pervading and intruding in to every atom of this

> > Srishti.

> > > > > That is why Vishnu is considered on of the Ekadasa/Eleven

> forms

> > > of

> > > > > Sri Rudra. and Rudra is an another aspect of All pervading

> Sri

> > > > > Vishnu. Veda uses these names when ever and where ever

these

> > > inner

> > > > > aspects of these name are useful to explain things. This is

> > very

> > > > > difficult to understand and explain clearly. I fear whether

I

> > > > could

> > > > > explain or convey what I am able to understand. When you go

> to

> > > > > Puranas , I am not talking about Itihasas, they attribute

> forms

> > > > and

> > > > > qualities to various names in the Vedas just to make it

> > > > interesting

> > > > > and convey a particular ;message to common man. We should

not

> > > > concuss

> > > > > ourselves.This is my humble opini;on. With regards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hari Venkataraman

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dollarmoni sriram.nayak@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rashmikantji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry for my longish mail.IMHO please desist from

asking

> > > > > questions

> > > > > > > that have origin in veda/puranas/ shastras to an

> astrology

> > > > group.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > reason I am saying that is, though study/ knowledge of

> > > > puranas/

> > > > > > > ithihasas do help an astrologer to decipher the hidden

> > > > meanings

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > planetary positions, their stastric study is mostly

> > > > inadequate.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > replies to your mail from many is a clear indicator and

I

> > > have

> > > > > seen

> > > > > > > this happening in all astrology groups.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As wrong knowledge is being propogated by many, and

> guesses

> > > > are

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > on stastric knowledge, I thought of just posting a

couple

> > of

> > > > > > > indicators on this matter based on similar ones that

have

> > > > > happened

> > > > > > > before.

> > > > > > > All schools place Vedas above Puranas, itihAsa and

other

> > > > > Vedangas.

> > > > > > > This is because Vedas are apaurusheya. In case of any

> > > conflict

> > > > > > > between the Vedas and any other text, the former are to

> be

> > > > taken

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > others,for, being paurusheya (let the author be

anybody;

> > > > buddha,

> > > > > > > krishna, chaitanya), are to be discarded. I hope none

> > > > disagrees

> > > > > here.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vedas do talk of Vishnu's supremacy.Ofcourse, the first

> > line

> > > > from

> > > > > > > Mahopanishad is there:

> > > > > > > eko nArayaNa AsInna brahmA neshAno nAgnIshomau neme

> > > > > > > dyAvapR^ithivI | This clearly says that it is Lord

> Narayana

> > > > who

> > > > > > > existed at that point of time, when there was niether

> > Brahma

> > > > nor

> > > > > > > Shiva, Agni, Chandra, these heavens and earth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The very appearance of other deities being praised is

> also

> > > not

> > > > a

> > > > > > > hindrance; other Gods are indeed to be worshipped for

> > various

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > benefits. For example,Shiva is the abhimAni-devatA for

> > manas

> > > > > (mind);

> > > > > > > unless the kind Lord of Uma showers his benefience,

there

> > is

> > > > not

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > chance that a man will be able to convert his bitterest

> > enemy

> > > > to

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > best friend. However, these devatAs, be it Shiva or

Indra

> > or

> > > > Agni

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > Pushan, are

> > > > > > > all substitutes to Vishnu, who is Brahman.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Consider this from RgVeda (7th Mandala):

> > > > > > > asya devasya mILhuSo vayA viShNoreShasya prabhR^ithe

> > > havirbhiH

> > > > |

> > > > > > > vide hi rudro rudriyaM mahitvaM yAsiSTaM

> > vartirashvinAvirAva

> > > > t.h ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This one clearly says that Rudra got his 'rudratva'

> > > > > > > from Vishnu.

> > > > > > > So, why not conclude that it is Narayana whose

> > > > > > > different forms are Brahma, Shiva, Agni, Surya etc,

> > > > > > > just like Rama and Krishna are? The reason is again in

> > > > > > > the scriptures. These other Gods are said to be the

> > control,

> > > > are

> > > > > > > said to be born and even die, are said to be afraid of

> > > Brahman

> > > > > (R.V

> > > > > > > 2.38.9, Taittiriya Upanishad 2-8). It is plain common

> sense

> > > > that

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > is not afraid of oneself. It cannot be even that one

form

> > is

> > > > > > > ignorant of other (how can that be, if they are

> all 'pUrNa'

> > > > > brahman,

> > > > > > > that is praised in the muNDakopanishat as 'sarvaj~naH'

> > > > > omniscient?) .

> > > > > > > Consider kAThaka araNyaka 206. This relates to Indra

> > beheading

> > > > > > > Rudra ('etadrudrasya dhanuH | rudrasyatveva

dhanurArtniH

> > > shira

> > > > > > > utpipeSha | sa pravargyo.abhavat. h'). This appears in

> > > > Taiitariya

> > > > > > > Aranyaka also. All these deities are said to be under

the

> > > > control

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > ambhraNI ( Lakshmi devi) , the seer of ambhraNI sUkta

> (some

> > > > call

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > devI sUkta): ahaM rudrebhir vasubhir .... yaM kAmaye

taM

> > > ugraM

> > > > > > > kR^iNomi taM brahmANaM taM R^iShiM taM sumedhaM.

> > > > > > > Here, Lakshmi says that whomsoever she pleases, will be

> > made

> > > > > Rudra,

> > > > > > > Brahma, a sage or a wiseman. She proclaims that she had

> > given

> > > > the

> > > > > > > bow to Rudra to cut off one of the five heads of Brahma

> (for

> > > > > > > chanting a Vedic verse wrongly): ahaM rudrAya

> dhanurAtanomi

> > > > etc.

> > > > > > > Later, the same lady says that thesource of her powers

is

> > the

> > > > > Being

> > > > > > > on the ocean (mama yoni apsu antaH samudre)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lakshmi is ajanma. She is a nitya chetana. Brahma is

born

> > of

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > > Padmanabha and saraswati is Kriti-Pradyumnas ( another

> form

> > > of

> > > > > > > Lakshmi-Narayana) daughter and is Brahmas wife. (

> referred

> > in

> > > > > puranas

> > > > > > > as chaturavadana rani).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I saw some quote from Devi Bhagavata provided in

another

> > > mail.

> > > > > That

> > > > > > > has to be discarded as the quote goes agains vedic

> > > injunctions

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > is also from the " rajasa " purana as mentioned by Shri

> > > > Vedavyasa

> > > > > > > himself, the 'organiser of vedas "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I trust this clarifies the " origins " of Lakshmi and

> > Saraswati.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > sriram nayak

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ancient_indian_

> > > > > <%40>

> astrology@

> > > > .

> > > > > com, rashmi patel

> > > > > > > rashmihpatel@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > PLEASE CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE PARENTS NAME OF LAXMIJI

&

> > > > > SARASWATIJI

> > > > > > > > I HAD GUEST IN MY HOUSE FROM CALCUTTA SAYING THEY ARE

> > > > DAUGHTERS

> > > > > OF

> > > > > > > SHIV-PARVATI, MEANING SISTERS OF GANESH & KARTIK.

> > > > > > > > PLEASE TELL ME

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > THANKS

> > > > > > > > RASHMIKANT

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi@

> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_

> > > > > <%40>

> astrology@

> > > > .

> > > > > com

> > > > > > > > Saturday, December 8, 2007 7:41:37 AM

> > > > > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Time - an

> > illusion

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Sir,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I totally agree with you. Truth needs no " ism " for

its

> > > > > existence.

> > > > > > > Be

> > > > > > > > it Shavism or Vaishnavism or any other ism. Absolute

> > > reality

> > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same in all religions, be it Islam, Hinduism or

> > > > Christianity.

> > > > > This

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a fact everybody knows. One need not be a pandit in

> > history

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > scriptures to know all these. If anybody says

> their " ism "

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > one way to realise GOD, then they havent understood

> > > > their " ism "

> > > > > > > > properly.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Experiencing the absolute is not a monopoly of any

> > specific

> > > > > sect.

> > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > it was, we wouldnt have had so many enlightened ones

in

> > > this

> > > > > world

> > > > > > > > that too from different religions and sects. St.Tresa

> of

> > > > Avila,

> > > > > > > > Budha, Sufi saints are all examples. Tryin

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

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> > > > >

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December 18, 2007

Dear Jyothi,

How would you test if the chart given to

you is accurate or not. For that I think you would need to know the set

of rules that work wouldn’t you?

As to the last part of your reply, the

confusion exists because we do not have complete and authentic texts.

Have you played Chinese whispers as a kid,

when in a chain one kid would whisper something in another kids ear and then

that would continue and then in the end the last kid would say what he heard

and that would be totally different from what the original word was?

Here we are talking about centuries J

To add to the gamut of “confusion”

don’t u find it strange that in so many texts not a single solved chart

is given by any of the maharishis?

Don’t you think the Maharishis knew

that a picture would speak more than a 1000 words….

With reference to your question, about

your cousins chart of moon being in 12th or 1st house,

for that also u would have to know the rules would’t you to judge if its

drastically different or not?

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

On Behalf Of jyothi_b_lakshmi

Tuesday December 18, 2007

10:18 PM

Subject:

Re: To Ash and all others

Dear Ash,

Yes, agreed that the rules to interpret a chart must be fixed. But

to interpret a chart we need to have a correct chart in the first

place. Shouldn't we? First comes the chart and then comes the rules.

The problem is, using different ayanamsa we get different planetary

positions. Say, for example, Venus in initial degrees of Leo may be

placed in Cancer when we use a different ayanamsa. See for my

cousin's chart you got Moon in Lagna, when as per Lahiri, it is in

12th. No need of saying how drastically it will affect the

interpretation. If the first step itself is wrong how can we assume

the second step to be correct? (Which is right and which is wrong is

the main problem here:))

Now coming to the rules, so far I haven't read any contradictory

rules. But now the KAS theory seems to be very different.

Anyway, there is no point in discussing the ayanamsa issues and even

the rules.

By the way, does anybody know which ayanamsa did Parashara, Kalyana

Varma or the people of the parampara whom we follow used? The sages

didnt have any confusion about ayanamsa(or did they?), why do we have

so much of confusion???

Regards,

Jyothi

,

" Ash " <kas

wrote:

>

> Dear Jyothi,

>

> If the rules to interpret a chart and the data to work on is agreed

by all,

> then ayanamsa can be checked. If the rules are not fixed, how can

one check

> ayanamsa? This is common sense eh.

>

> So those people who want to test the effacy of their ayanamsa,

should also

> give the set of rules that are fixed and can be tested on each and

every

> chart. Otherwise if that is not fixed, there can be no test of

ayanamsa.

> So then what does one do? They can only have faith in their teacher

and

> their own hard work to find the rules that work consistently in all

charts

> and after spending years, decades (because the texts are not

complete that

> are available) then u can use those laws that u find working

consistently in

> all charts, to test the ayanamsa.

>

> I think it is as simple as that.

>

> KAS gives u fixed set of rules, rest is upto those who want to test

their

> ayanamsa. The points will be fixed so say someone working with BV

Ramans

> ayanamsa, and someone say working with Lahiri can both cast the

chart, using

> the KAS, both of them will get a worksheet which will have power of

planets

> based on fixed set of rules. Then they can test the dashas which

also has

> fixed set of rules. Even the D charts casted will have fixed

power for

> each house.

>

> The system is out there should someone or anyone want to check the

ayanamsa.

>

> Cheers !!!

>

> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca>

http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> _____

>

On Behalf Of