Guest guest Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Dear Kumar, Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd cent BC. He had instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about 600 years after and he had good number of instruments and his computations are accurate to minutes of arc in certain special cases. General accuracy was less as the test of their computations was eclipse times which is a very complicated issue. Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing to do with actual values as we know in modern astronomy. They had relative distances correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc so that the parallax could be computed correctly. Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria at the Cera Capital Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and Arab trade centre. Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden period of Kerala with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood etc with Egypt, Rome and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more through foreign sources - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. Lot of coinage (Gold from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which speak about the Golden age. chandra hari , " vinita kumar " <shankar_mamta wrote: > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew more to make sense > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his contributions to > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he could compute the > circumfrence of the earth with such precision?...and also come to > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, declination of earth, > path of orbit, etc? > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to abstract astronomy. > presumably in ancient times they did not have any instruments of > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita for computations > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too with so > much accuracy!!!!! > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between astrology and > astronomy. but then who constructed the first accurate ephemeris? > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? how can eclipses > be predicted so accurately even today based on the ancient ephemiris? > > why are there common features in calendars across the globe...? > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using planets (Mayaan > calendar based on Venus and ending with the eclipse of Venus in > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did the calendars / > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better communication > among civilisations across space and over time than we can imagine? > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers have such good > knowledge of the position of not only the placement and movement of > bodies in the solar system but also their relationship with more > distant and therefore relatively stable stars/nakshatras in outer > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles of time / yugas, > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the macro of the cosmos? > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on this forum there > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our solar system revolved > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis revolved around the > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around Brahma....!?...or > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, according to modern > day physics? > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by super intelligent > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of the brahmanda > been brought to earth by such beings who then codified it in > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the ephemiris? or could > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could anyway realize the > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it in ancient > treatises? > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact remains that > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating that i can only > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the world and the head > spins around....and i marvel at my ignorance....even on this forum. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Dear friend, You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First learn as to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to Greeks and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus? No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or Nalanda or Takshasila. It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the Vedas. Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, including how they maintained their records. It is because of their eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time accurately. Why Indians had no such record keeping? Think over chandra hari , Bejoy <bejoy_cs wrote: > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > cause ? > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > him by many years and certain info ( like the > precession of equinox ) which present day science > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > attributes to the Vedas. > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > duration. The names of different months in the > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > Indian texts. > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > cent BC. He had > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > 600 years after and > > he had good number of instruments and his > > computations are accurate to > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > accuracy was less as > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > which is a very > > complicated issue. > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > to do with actual > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > relative distances > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > so that the > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > at the Cera Capital > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > Arab trade centre. > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > period of Kerala > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > through foreign sources > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > speak about the > > Golden age. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , > > " vinita kumar " > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > more to make sense > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > contributions to > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > could compute the > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > precision?...and also come to > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > declination of earth, > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to > > abstract astronomy. > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > instruments of > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > for computations > > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too > > with so > > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > astrology and > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > accurate ephemeris? > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > how can eclipses > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > the globe...? > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > planets (Mayaan > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > eclipse of Venus in > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > the calendars / > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > communication > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > have such good > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > placement and movement of > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > relationship with more > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > of time / yugas, > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > this forum there > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > solar system revolved > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > revolved around the > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > Brahma....!?...or > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > according to modern > > > day physics? > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > super intelligent > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > the brahmanda > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > codified it in > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > ephemiris? or could > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > anyway realize the > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > in ancient > > > treatises? > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact > > remains that > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > that i can only > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > world and the head > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > ignorance....even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________\ ____________ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www./r/hs > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 These are the results of some searches on the net!!! I http://www.brihaspati.net/lesson_4.htm " It is said that in the Rig Veda one can find certain mantras, which translate into astronomical equations, with the help of which, the planetary positions for any moment in time may be calculated. However these rules are quite obscure nowadays " . II Brihat Hora Shastra " It is mentioned in ancient classics that Narada, the son of Brahma got instructions in astrology and the Vedas from his father and taught these to Sage Saunaka….Parasar was the learned disciple of Sage Saunaka " …. " Astrology, the supreme limb of the Vedas, has 3 divisions, Hora, Ganita and Samhita….In this branch of science we get a detailed description of good and evil effects through dreams, knowledge of the auspicious and the inauspicious thins through sound effects, knowledge of the auspicious and the inauspicious through twitchings of organs or muscles, movements of the planets, good omens, clairvoyance, science of palmistry, etc,…The prediction of happening in the life of a particular individual on the basis of his time, place of birth is studied in the Hora Shastra….The assessment of placement and movement of planets through the cosmos from the beginning to the destruction of the creations is called Siddhanta or Ganita " III https://protected.hypermart.net/mkshenoy/Vedic_time.htm " The word " Jyotishya " in the Vedic literature connotes " Astronomy " which was recognized as the foremost of the six auxiliaries of Veda. The Vedic life (1000 B.C. to 400 B.C.) was noted for the performance of several rituals and sacrifices at prescribed times to satisfy heaven and God. Vedanga Jyotishya was the earliest of all Vedic text on astronomy and was an integrated part of the life of the Vedic people of whom Vedic priests were well versed. Vendanga-jyotishya is in the form of various sutra – a style noted for its depth of contents continue to be in use for a long time until the invasion of India by Alexander the Great in fourth century B.C. After Greco-Roman contacts with India, a new class of astronomical literatures called sidhantas started emerging. An important development in this literature was the gradual replacement of nakshatra system by 12 signs of the zodiac, Mesha, Vrishabha, Mithuna..Meena, similar to the animistic notations of the Babylonians and Greeks. Accordingly, 27 nakshatras consisting of 108 parts (27x4) divided by 12 gives 9 parts for each sign. Thus, Mesha made up of Ashvini, Bharani and 1 part of Kritika (4+4+1=9) and so on. In addition, name of the solar months was identified with the respective sign. A few centuries after Christian era Indian astronomers developed new mathematical tools and methods for promoting astronomical calculations. Spherical trigonometry is one such area developed side by side with algebra and geometry added veneer of accuracy to the study of several astronomical phenomena. Thus newly emerging siddhantas were set of rules (including thumb rules) arriving at solutions to the complex astronomical problems. Among the 18 siddhantas Varahamihira, the great grand master of astronomy as well as astrology, ably codified Saura (Surya), Paitamaha, Vasistha, Romaka and Paulisa during 505 A.D. He reiterated that Surya siddhanta was the most accurate of all and became the basis of many traditional almanacs published even today from various parts of India. Surya siddhanta in the current form has no human authorship associated with it but, represents contribution from several noted astronomers over the years " . IV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination_%28disambiguation%29 " Divination may refer to: • divination, the practice of allegedly ascertaining information from supernatural sources Main article: Methods of divination • astrology: by celestial bodies. • augury: by the flight of birds. • bibliomancy: by books (frequently, but not always, religious texts). • cartomancy: by cards. • cheiromancy/palmistry: by palms. • gastromancy: by crystal ball. • extispicy: by the entrails of animals. • feng Shui: by earthen harmony. • I Ching divination: by the I Ching; a form of bibliomancy. • numerology: by numbers. • oneiromancy: by dreams. • onomancy: by names. • Ouija: board divination. • rhabdomancy: divination by rods • runecasting/Runic divination: by runes. • scrying: by reflective objects. • taromancy: by Tarot; a form of cartomancy. • necromancy: by the dead, or spirits/souls of the dead/recently dead " According to I astrology may be an abstract as well as scientific form of divination….some form of secret code " written " in the Vedas which could be deciphered only by the rishis…. According to II jyotisha was a very ancient and exclusive form of knowledge revealed by Brahma himself and passed down from him in the Guru-Sishya parampara….definitely not accessible to everbody. Hora and Ganita were two branches of Jyotisha….representing the modern day astrology and astronomy respectively??? Jyotisha itself was a much broader term which included various types of divination of which astrology was just one???? According to III jyotisha was practiced in a mundane sense of timing of rituals, taking out the muhurata for events to take place. There is reference to Nakshatras but no mention of the zodiac in the vedas which appears to be of later origin under the Greco-Roman influence. The astronomy treatises / siddhantas in India were also had European influences??? According to IV divination is a way of obtaining information from " supernatural " sources and astrology is one of the many methods of divination. So in astrology is there an important role of the " supernatural " , the non-physical, the abstract????? Can astrology be completely scientific???? Is there a role for purely abstract ganita in astrology which is independent of actual observation of stars/planets???? Something like the equations that Einstein evolved without observing the actual phenomena but later proved to be correct when these phenomena were actually observed???? So was ganita of ancient times some kind of very abstract codified mathematical formulae that the sages understood….but which were lost later????? Did the rishi munis of ancient times consult panchangas / drew charts or used " divine vision " or secret formulae????????? Have bits of this secret knowledge filtered down the ages so that while reading charts some people can hit the bull's eye sometimes but not all the time????? The head continues to go round and round………. , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear friend, > > You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First learn as > to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to Greeks > and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus? > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or > Nalanda or Takshasila. > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the > Vedas. > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > accurately. > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > Think over > > chandra hari > > , Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > > cause ? > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > duration. The names of different months in the > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > Indian texts. > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > > cent BC. He had > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > > 600 years after and > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > computations are accurate to > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > accuracy was less as > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > which is a very > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > > to do with actual > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > relative distances > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > > so that the > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > > at the Cera Capital > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > > Arab trade centre. > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > > period of Kerala > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > through foreign sources > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > > speak about the > > > Golden age. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > , > > > " vinita kumar " > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > > more to make sense > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > contributions to > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > could compute the > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > > precision?...and also come to > > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > > declination of earth, > > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to > > > abstract astronomy. > > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > > instruments of > > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > > for computations > > > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too > > > with so > > > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > > astrology and > > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > > accurate ephemeris? > > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > > how can eclipses > > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > > the globe...? > > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > > planets (Mayaan > > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > > eclipse of Venus in > > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > > the calendars / > > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > > communication > > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > > have such good > > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > > placement and movement of > > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > > relationship with more > > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > > of time / yugas, > > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > > this forum there > > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > > solar system revolved > > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > > revolved around the > > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > > Brahma....!?...or > > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > > according to modern > > > > day physics? > > > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > > super intelligent > > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > > the brahmanda > > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > > codified it in > > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > > ephemiris? or could > > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > > anyway realize the > > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > > in ancient > > > > treatises? > > > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact > > > remains that > > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > > that i can only > > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > > world and the head > > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > > ignorance....even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ ___\ > ____________ > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > > http://www./r/hs > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 dear friend geomithi, a part of of Vedas that deals with homa kunda drawings etc etc the 'West' called it geometry. study it in detail. for your specific requirement i would suggest you to go thru the Book Vedic Mathematics written by Late Puri Sankaracharya (the original and the first one). You comment atleast after going thru book. then you will know 'what was not in Vedas'. Okay you want to say something good about other cultures go ahead nothing wrong in it. but to belittle our own is simply not good. I am sure u hvnt gone thru the sacred Vedas either. simply for the heck of it or to prove your points in an useless arguments dont insult our Sacred Vedas. One life time is not enough even to know thoroughly the entire Saka of one veda. Venkat chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 7:35:40 PM Re: head is going round and round...... Dear friend,You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First learn asto what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to Greeksand Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus?No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala orNalanda or Takshasila.It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name asingle modern discovery or concept that has been made out of theinformation in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the Westeveryone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in theVedas.Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read aboutHipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learnabout the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy,including how they maintained their records. It is because of theireclipse records that today we are able to compute back in timeaccurately.Why Indians had no such record keeping?Think overchandra hariancient_indian_ astrology, Bejoy <bejoy_cs@.. .>wrote:>> Dear Sri Chandra Hari,>> Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and> Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the> diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ?>> Or could it be that the ancient universities of India> like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could> be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which> would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon> who got taught about the astronomical info in the> Vedas and these students inturn returning to their> natives propagating their knowledge another possible> cause ?>> Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates> him by many years and certain info ( like the> precession of equinox ) which present day science> attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact> implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from> time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to> acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself> attributes to the Vedas.>> The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to> it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or> duration. The names of different months in the> Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it ->> like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month.>> Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month.>> Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month.>> Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month.>> The variation of 2 months is because the Romans> decided to insert July and August to supposedly> felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby> shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on.>> Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies> numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a> Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient> Indian texts.>> Regards>> Bejoy C.S.> www.keraladarsan. com>>>> Regards>> Bejoy C.S.> www.keraladarsan. com>>>>>>> --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ ... wrote:>> >> > Dear Kumar,> >> > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd> > cent BC. He had> > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about> > 600 years after and> > he had good number of instruments and his> > computations are accurate to> > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General> > accuracy was less as> > the test of their computations was eclipse times> > which is a very> > complicated issue.> >> > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing> > to do with actual> > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had> > relative distances> > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc> > so that the> > parallax could be computed correctly.> >> > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria> > at the Cera Capital> > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and> > Arab trade centre.> > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden> > period of Kerala> > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood> > etc with Egypt, Rome> > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more> > through foreign sources> > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources.> > Lot of coinage (Gold> > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which> > speak about the> > Golden age.> >> > chandra hari> >> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "vinita kumar"> > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > >> > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew> > more to make sense> > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his> > contributions to> > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he> > could compute the> > > circumfrence of the earth with such> > precision?.. .and also come to> > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets,> > declination of earth,> > > path of orbit, etc?> > >> > > it appears that mathematics/ ganita is crucial to> > abstract astronomy.> > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any> > instruments of> > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita> > for computations> > > and for arriving at conclusions. ..and that too> > with so> > > much accuracy!!!! !> > >> > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between> > astrology and> > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first> > accurate ephemeris?> > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time?> > how can eclipses> > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the> > ancient ephemiris?> > >> > > why are there common features in calendars across> > the globe...?> > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using> > planets (Mayaan> > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the> > eclipse of Venus in> > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did> > the calendars /> > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better> > communication> > > among civilisations across space and over time> > than we can imagine?> > >> > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers> > have such good> > > knowledge of the position of not only the> > placement and movement of> > > bodies in the solar system but also their> > relationship with more> > > distant and therefore relatively stable> > stars/nakshatras in outer> > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles> > of time / yugas,> > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the> > macro of the cosmos?> > >> > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on> > this forum there> > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our> > solar system revolved> > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis> > revolved around the> > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around> > Brahma....!? ...or> > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy,> > according to modern> > > day physics?> > >> > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by> > super intelligent> > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of> > the brahmanda> > > been brought to earth by such beings who then> > codified it in> > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the> > ephemiris? or could> > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could> > anyway realize the> > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it> > in ancient> > > treatises?> > >> > > it is easy to indulge fantasies... but the fact> > remains that> > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating> > that i can only> > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the> > world and the head> > > spins around....and i marvel at my> > ignorance... .even on this forum.> > >> >> >> >> >>>>>____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _\____________> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.> http://www.. com/r/hs> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Dear learned members, Well said Chandrahari ji, Qoute - " No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or Nalanda or Takshasila. It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the Vedas. " - Unquote This is what I call true patriotrism. Love thy nation and simultaneously respect the rights of other nations too. Although geographical boundaries have demarcated the nations humanity is one and all. blessings Renu , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear friend, > > You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First learn as > to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to Greeks > and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus? > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or > Nalanda or Takshasila. > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the > Vedas. > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > accurately. > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > Think over > > chandra hari > > , Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > > cause ? > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > duration. The names of different months in the > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > Indian texts. > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > > cent BC. He had > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > > 600 years after and > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > computations are accurate to > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > accuracy was less as > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > which is a very > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > > to do with actual > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > relative distances > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > > so that the > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > > at the Cera Capital > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > > Arab trade centre. > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > > period of Kerala > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > through foreign sources > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > > speak about the > > > Golden age. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > , > > > " vinita kumar " > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > > more to make sense > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > contributions to > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > could compute the > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > > precision?...and also come to > > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > > declination of earth, > > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to > > > abstract astronomy. > > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > > instruments of > > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > > for computations > > > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too > > > with so > > > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > > astrology and > > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > > accurate ephemeris? > > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > > how can eclipses > > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > > the globe...? > > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > > planets (Mayaan > > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > > eclipse of Venus in > > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > > the calendars / > > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > > communication > > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > > have such good > > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > > placement and movement of > > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > > relationship with more > > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > > of time / yugas, > > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > > this forum there > > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > > solar system revolved > > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > > revolved around the > > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > > Brahma....!?...or > > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > > according to modern > > > > day physics? > > > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > > super intelligent > > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > > the brahmanda > > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > > codified it in > > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > > ephemiris? or could > > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > > anyway realize the > > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > > in ancient > > > > treatises? > > > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact > > > remains that > > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > > that i can only > > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > > world and the head > > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > > ignorance....even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ ___\ > ____________ > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > > http://www./r/hs > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Chandra Hari ji, Vinita ji is a women and not a man. She is lovely beautiful motherly women - have a beautiful language, good understanding, and holds a good position in govt. service, and is a resident of Delhi. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Kumar, > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd cent BC. He had > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about 600 years after and > he had good number of instruments and his computations are accurate to > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General accuracy was less as > the test of their computations was eclipse times which is a very > complicated issue. > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing to do with actual > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had relative distances > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc so that the > parallax could be computed correctly. > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria at the Cera Capital > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and Arab trade centre. > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden period of Kerala > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood etc with Egypt, Rome > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more through foreign sources > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. Lot of coinage (Gold > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which speak about the > Golden age. > > chandra hari > > > , " vinita kumar " > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew more to make sense > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his contributions to > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he could compute the > > circumfrence of the earth with such precision?...and also come to > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, declination of earth, > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to abstract astronomy. > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any instruments of > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita for computations > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too with so > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between astrology and > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first accurate ephemeris? > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? how can eclipses > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the ancient ephemiris? > > > > why are there common features in calendars across the globe...? > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using planets (Mayaan > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the eclipse of Venus in > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did the calendars / > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better communication > > among civilisations across space and over time than we can imagine? > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers have such good > > knowledge of the position of not only the placement and movement of > > bodies in the solar system but also their relationship with more > > distant and therefore relatively stable stars/nakshatras in outer > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles of time / yugas, > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the macro of the cosmos? > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on this forum there > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our solar system revolved > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis revolved around the > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around Brahma....!?...or > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, according to modern > > day physics? > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by super intelligent > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of the brahmanda > > been brought to earth by such beings who then codified it in > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the ephemiris? or could > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could anyway realize the > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it in ancient > > treatises? > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact remains that > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating that i can only > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the world and the head > > spins around....and i marvel at my ignorance....even on this forum. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Vinita ji, That was a beautiful mail.. The only thing I can say is - what else we can do except to Search...Search....and Search....and improve our understanding... Love and regards, Sreenadh , " vinita kumar " <shankar_mamta wrote: > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew more to make sense > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his contributions to > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he could compute the > circumfrence of the earth with such precision?...and also come to > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, declination of earth, > path of orbit, etc? > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to abstract astronomy. > presumably in ancient times they did not have any instruments of > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita for computations > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too with so > much accuracy!!!!! > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between astrology and > astronomy. but then who constructed the first accurate ephemeris? > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? how can eclipses > be predicted so accurately even today based on the ancient ephemiris? > > why are there common features in calendars across the globe...? > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using planets (Mayaan > calendar based on Venus and ending with the eclipse of Venus in > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did the calendars / > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better communication > among civilisations across space and over time than we can imagine? > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers have such good > knowledge of the position of not only the placement and movement of > bodies in the solar system but also their relationship with more > distant and therefore relatively stable stars/nakshatras in outer > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles of time / yugas, > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the macro of the cosmos? > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on this forum there > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our solar system revolved > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis revolved around the > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around Brahma....!?...or > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, according to modern > day physics? > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by super intelligent > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of the brahmanda > been brought to earth by such beings who then codified it in > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the ephemiris? or could > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could anyway realize the > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it in ancient > treatises? > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact remains that > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating that i can only > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the world and the head > spins around....and i marvel at my ignorance....even on this forum. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Bejoy ji, ==> Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates him by many years and certain info ( like the precession of equinox ) which present day science attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from time immemorial. <== The astronomy and systematic approach and presentation of Hipparchus is definitely different and more in tune with Nirayana astrology than the anarchic approach of vedas pinned to tropical astrology based on seasons and asterism alone. The Tropical astrology of vedas - which we can term Tropical or Sayana Astrology & The Nirayana astrology which is non-vedic in character and popular today (and finds it ancher in Suryasiddhanta) certainly followed distinctly different paths of development. ==> Aryabhata was candid enough to acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself attributes to the Vedas. <== Oh! That is a new knowledge to me!! Where did Aryabhata told that the knowledge he presents is 'Vedic'?!!! He himself was a Jain, considered that the universe is made up of 4 elements only like the Jains and Lokayatas and unlike the 5 element theory of vedic sources, and was an out caste! That was why his writings where this much criticized by the vedic followers, hindus, brahmins - the whole world was against him! And you are saying that he attributed his source to Vedas?!! Can you quote your reference? Love and regards, Sreenadh , Bejoy <bejoy_cs wrote: > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > cause ? > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > him by many years and certain info ( like the > precession of equinox ) which present day science > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > attributes to the Vedas. > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > duration. The names of different months in the > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > Indian texts. > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com --- chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > cent BC. He had > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > 600 years after and > > he had good number of instruments and his > > computations are accurate to > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > accuracy was less as > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > which is a very > > complicated issue. > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > to do with actual > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > relative distances > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > so that the > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > at the Cera Capital > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > Arab trade centre. > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > period of Kerala > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > through foreign sources > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > speak about the > > Golden age. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , > > " vinita kumar " > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > more to make sense > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > contributions to > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > could compute the > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > precision?...and also come to > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > declination of earth, > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to > > abstract astronomy. > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > instruments of > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > for computations > > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too > > with so > > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > astrology and > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > accurate ephemeris? > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > how can eclipses > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > the globe...? > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > planets (Mayaan > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > eclipse of Venus in > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > the calendars / > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > communication > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > have such good > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > placement and movement of > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > relationship with more > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > of time / yugas, > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > this forum there > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > solar system revolved > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > revolved around the > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > Brahma....!?...or > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > according to modern > > > day physics? > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > super intelligent > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > the brahmanda > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > codified it in > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > ephemiris? or could > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > anyway realize the > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > in ancient > > > treatises? > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact > > remains that > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > that i can only > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > world and the head > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > ignorance....even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Never miss a thing. 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Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Vinita ji, Simply the point is - * From BC 1400 to AD 500 it was almost dark ages regarding astrology in India. Except Sphujidwaja Hora (AD 250) and Meenaraja hora we cannot find any dateable text during this period. But much material (especially astrological and not astronomical) ascribed to this period and sages is available without much chronological order - and accuracy. Aryabhata and Mihara was the sunlight of new age to Indian astronomy. * From AD 2nd century to AD 14th century it was dark ages in Europe. Only a single commentary of Hipparchus to a book, some books of Ptolemy only survived. Some rare fragments from the books of some others is also available just like the fragmented knowledge we have about our dark age. In Europe the sunlight on astronomy came with Keplar and Newton. This is the actual scenario. Due to this all arguments - go astray - pro or against - whether it be antiquity of Indian knowledge or Greek knowledge - as far as astronomy/astrology is concerned. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " vinita kumar " <shankar_mamta wrote: > > These are the results of some searches on the net!!! > > I http://www.brihaspati.net/lesson_4.htm > > " It is said that in the Rig Veda one can find certain mantras, which > translate into astronomical equations, with the help of which, the > planetary positions for any moment in time may be calculated. > However these rules are quite obscure nowadays " . > > II Brihat Hora Shastra > > " It is mentioned in ancient classics that Narada, the son of Brahma > got instructions in astrology and the Vedas from his father and > taught these to Sage Saunaka….Parasar was the learned disciple of > Sage Saunaka " …. " Astrology, the supreme limb of the Vedas, has 3 > divisions, Hora, Ganita and Samhita….In this branch of science we > get a detailed description of good and evil effects through dreams, > knowledge of the auspicious and the inauspicious thins through sound > effects, knowledge of the auspicious and the inauspicious through > twitchings of organs or muscles, movements of the planets, good > omens, clairvoyance, science of palmistry, etc,…The prediction of > happening in the life of a particular individual on the basis of his > time, place of birth is studied in the Hora Shastra….The assessment > of placement and movement of planets through the cosmos from the > beginning to the destruction of the creations is called Siddhanta or > Ganita " > > III https://protected.hypermart.net/mkshenoy/Vedic_time.htm > > > " The word " Jyotishya " in the Vedic literature connotes " Astronomy " > which was recognized as the foremost of the six auxiliaries of > Veda. The Vedic life (1000 B.C. to 400 B.C.) was noted for the > performance of several rituals and sacrifices at prescribed times to > satisfy heaven and God. Vedanga Jyotishya was the earliest of all > Vedic text on astronomy and was an integrated part of the life of > the Vedic people of whom Vedic priests were well versed. > > Vendanga-jyotishya is in the form of various sutra – a style noted > for its depth of contents continue to be in use for a long time > until the invasion of India by Alexander the Great in fourth century > B.C. After Greco-Roman contacts with India, a new class of > astronomical literatures called sidhantas started emerging. An > important development in this literature was the gradual replacement > of nakshatra system by 12 signs of the zodiac, Mesha, Vrishabha, > Mithuna..Meena, similar to the animistic notations of the > Babylonians and Greeks. Accordingly, 27 nakshatras consisting of > 108 parts (27x4) divided by 12 gives 9 parts for each sign. Thus, > Mesha made up of Ashvini, Bharani and 1 part of Kritika (4+4+1=9) > and so on. In addition, name of the solar months was identified > with the respective sign. A few centuries after Christian era > Indian astronomers developed new mathematical tools and methods for > promoting astronomical calculations. Spherical trigonometry is one > such area developed side by side with algebra and geometry added > veneer of accuracy to the study of several astronomical phenomena. > Thus newly emerging siddhantas were set of rules (including thumb > rules) arriving at solutions to the complex astronomical problems. > Among the 18 siddhantas Varahamihira, the great grand master of > astronomy as well as astrology, ably codified Saura (Surya), > Paitamaha, Vasistha, Romaka and Paulisa during 505 A.D. He > reiterated that Surya siddhanta was the most accurate of all and > became the basis of many traditional almanacs published even today > from various parts of India. Surya siddhanta in the current form > has no human authorship associated with it but, represents > contribution from several noted astronomers over the years " . > > IV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination_%28disambiguation%29 > " Divination may refer to: > • divination, the practice of allegedly ascertaining > information from supernatural sources > Main article: Methods of divination > • astrology: by celestial bodies. > • augury: by the flight of birds. > • bibliomancy: by books (frequently, but not always, religious > texts). > • cartomancy: by cards. > • cheiromancy/palmistry: by palms. > • gastromancy: by crystal ball. > • extispicy: by the entrails of animals. > • feng Shui: by earthen harmony. > • I Ching divination: by the I Ching; a form of bibliomancy. > • numerology: by numbers. > • oneiromancy: by dreams. > • onomancy: by names. > • Ouija: board divination. > • rhabdomancy: divination by rods > • runecasting/Runic divination: by runes. > • scrying: by reflective objects. > • taromancy: by Tarot; a form of cartomancy. > • necromancy: by the dead, or spirits/souls of the > dead/recently dead " > > According to I astrology may be an abstract as well as scientific > form of divination….some form of secret code " written " in the Vedas > which could be deciphered only by the rishis…. > > According to II jyotisha was a very ancient and exclusive form of > knowledge revealed by Brahma himself and passed down from him in the > Guru-Sishya parampara….definitely not accessible to everbody. Hora > and Ganita were two branches of Jyotisha….representing the modern > day astrology and astronomy respectively??? Jyotisha itself was a > much broader term which included various types of divination of > which astrology was just one???? > > According to III jyotisha was practiced in a mundane sense of timing > of rituals, taking out the muhurata for events to take place. There > is reference to Nakshatras but no mention of the zodiac in the vedas > which appears to be of later origin under the Greco-Roman influence. > The astronomy treatises / siddhantas in India were also had European > influences??? > > According to IV divination is a way of obtaining information > from " supernatural " sources and astrology is one of the many methods > of divination. > > So in astrology is there an important role of the " supernatural " , > the non-physical, the abstract????? Can astrology be completely > scientific???? Is there a role for purely abstract ganita in > astrology which is independent of actual observation of > stars/planets???? Something like the equations that Einstein evolved > without observing the actual phenomena but later proved to be > correct when these phenomena were actually observed???? So was > ganita of ancient times some kind of very abstract codified > mathematical formulae that the sages understood….but which were lost > later????? > Did the rishi munis of ancient times consult panchangas / drew > charts or used " divine vision " or secret formulae????????? Have bits > of this secret knowledge filtered down the ages so that while > reading charts some people can hit the bull's eye sometimes but not > all the time????? > > The head continues to go round and round………. > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear friend, > > > > You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First > learn as > > to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to > Greeks > > and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus? > > > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in > Kerala or > > Nalanda or Takshasila. > > > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given > in the > > Vedas. > > > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also > learn > > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > > accurately. > > > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > > > Think over > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > > > cause ? > > > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > > duration. The names of different months in the > > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > > Indian texts. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > > > cent BC. He had > > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > > > 600 years after and > > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > > computations are accurate to > > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > > accuracy was less as > > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > > which is a very > > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > > > to do with actual > > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > > relative distances > > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > > > so that the > > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > > > at the Cera Capital > > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > > > Arab trade centre. > > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > > > period of Kerala > > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > > through foreign sources > > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > > > speak about the > > > > Golden age. > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > " vinita kumar " > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > > > more to make sense > > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > > contributions to > > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > > could compute the > > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > > > precision?...and also come to > > > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > > > declination of earth, > > > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ganita is crucial to > > > > abstract astronomy. > > > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > > > instruments of > > > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > > > for computations > > > > > and for arriving at conclusions...and that too > > > > with so > > > > > much accuracy!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > > > astrology and > > > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > > > accurate ephemeris? > > > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > > > how can eclipses > > > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > > > the globe...? > > > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > > > planets (Mayaan > > > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > > > eclipse of Venus in > > > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > > > the calendars / > > > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > > > communication > > > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > > > have such good > > > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > > > placement and movement of > > > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > > > relationship with more > > > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > > > of time / yugas, > > > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > > > this forum there > > > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > > > solar system revolved > > > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > > > revolved around the > > > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > > > Brahma....!?...or > > > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > > > according to modern > > > > > day physics? > > > > > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > > > super intelligent > > > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > > > the brahmanda > > > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > > > codified it in > > > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > > > ephemiris? or could > > > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > > > anyway realize the > > > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > > > in ancient > > > > > treatises? > > > > > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies...but the fact > > > > remains that > > > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > > > that i can only > > > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > > > world and the head > > > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > > > ignorance....even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > ___\ > > ____________ > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > > > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Chandra Hari, I am glad to stay in contact now with you having read a lot of your articles in JIHS Am 15.12.2007 um 17:35 schrieb chandra_hari18: > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or > Nalanda or Takshasila. You belitlle the Indian merits. I would say, at least in times of Aryabhata they were equal ... > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in > the > Vedas. Did you read e.g. Hamlets Mill? You will find there a lot about the Indian mythic knowledge upon precession. > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > accurately. > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > Think over Hmm ... Could it be, because from Greeks and Babylonians more artefacts have survived and that this area was better explored in modern times? What if we knew more of the " pre-Siddhantic " astronomy and calendars? Servus Sepp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Sreenadh, Hope to find out the weblink where Aryabhata attributes some of his findings to the Vedas where he mentions he was able to recover lost gems of Veda. But its a weblink which I read some months back and needless to say, need not have to be authentic. Will google it myself and send it across. Regarding Jainism, do you think it is mutually exclusive from Hinduism or both complements each other ? Like Buddhism ... could we say that Buddhism is not connected with Hindusim - Who were Gautama Buddhas parents ... they were Hindus or members of Vedic culture... if we say the term HIndu is also recent. The political tug of war of the medieval period between Brahmins, Jains etc etc shouldnt dilute the essence of the holy scriptues is what am trying to say. Hope that I am not digressing from the main discussion contents of this group. Regards Bejoy C.S. www.keraladarsan.com --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Bejoy ji, > ==> > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > predates > him by many years and certain info ( like the > precession of equinox ) which present day science > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > infact > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us > from > time immemorial. > <== > The astronomy and systematic approach and > presentation of Hipparchus > is definitely different and more in tune with > Nirayana astrology than > the anarchic approach of vedas pinned to tropical > astrology based on > seasons and asterism alone. > The Tropical astrology of vedas - which we can > term Tropical or > Sayana Astrology & The Nirayana astrology which is > non-vedic in > character and popular today (and finds it ancher in > Suryasiddhanta) > certainly followed distinctly different paths of > development. > ==> > Aryabhata was candid enough to > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > himself > attributes to the Vedas. > <== > Oh! That is a new knowledge to me!! Where did > Aryabhata told that > the knowledge he presents is 'Vedic'?!!! He himself > was a Jain, > considered that the universe is made up of 4 > elements only like the > Jains and Lokayatas and unlike the 5 element theory > of vedic sources, > and was an out caste! That was why his writings > where this much > criticized by the vedic followers, hindus, brahmins > - the whole world > was against him! And you are saying that he > attributed his source to > Vedas?!! Can you quote your reference? > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , > Bejoy <bejoy_cs > wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East > and > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of > the > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of > India > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there > could > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) > which > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / > Babylon > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > natives propagating their knowledge another > possible > > cause ? > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > predates > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > infact > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us > from > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > himself > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch > to > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > duration. The names of different months in the > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th > month. > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so > on. > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, > terminologies > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests > a > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > Indian texts. > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in > 2nd > > > cent BC. He had > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came > about > > > 600 years after and > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > computations are accurate to > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > accuracy was less as > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > which is a very > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had > nothing > > > to do with actual > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > relative distances > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii > etc > > > so that the > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from > Alexandria > > > at the Cera Capital > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port > and > > > Arab trade centre. > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the > golden > > > period of Kerala > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and > wood > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > through foreign sources > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian > sources. > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times > which > > > speak about the > > > Golden age. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > , > > > " vinita kumar " > > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i > knew > > > more to make sense > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > contributions to > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > could compute the > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Hari and Sepp, I have another question - What if the indians did kept the record but that was in Palmyra leafs? Is it not a chance coincidence that the Babylonian/Assyrian records where in clay tablets while the indian in palm leafs - and this caused some proofs of such tables survived in Babylon/Assyria but not in India? Note: What would have been our assumption about the Assyerian knowledge and culture if those cuniform records did not have survived - I wonder! Love and regards, Sreenadh , Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hari,> > I am glad to stay in contact now with you having read a lot of your > articles in JIHS> Am 15.12.2007 um 17:35 schrieb chandra_hari18:> > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or> > Nalanda or Takshasila.> > You belitlle the Indian merits.> I would say, at least in times of Aryabhata they were equal ...> > >> > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a> > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the> > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West> > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in > > the> > Vedas.> > Did you read e.g. Hamlets Mill?> You will find there a lot about the Indian mythic knowledge upon > precession.> > >> > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about> > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn> > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy,> > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their> > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time> > accurately.> >> > Why Indians had no such record keeping?> >> > Think over> > Hmm ...> Could it be, because from Greeks and Babylonians more artefacts have > survived and that this area was better explored in modern times?> What if we knew more of the "pre-Siddhantic" astronomy and calendars?> > Servus> Sepp> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Bejoy ji, ==> > Hope to find out the weblink where Aryabhata > attributes some of his findings to the Vedas where he > mentions he was able to recover lost gems of Veda. <== Sorry... NO web links... If you have some authentic reference (from some ancient authentic book) provide it. Otherwise forget it.. it is ok. Love and regards, Sreenadh , Bejoy <bejoy_cs wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Hope to find out the weblink where Aryabhata > attributes some of his findings to the Vedas where he > mentions he was able to recover lost gems of Veda. > > But its a weblink which I read some months back and > needless to say, need not have to be authentic. Will > google it myself and send it across. > > Regarding Jainism, do you think it is mutually > exclusive from Hinduism or both complements each > other ? > > Like Buddhism ... could we say that Buddhism is not > connected with Hindusim - Who were Gautama Buddhas > parents ... they were Hindus or members of Vedic > culture... if we say the term HIndu is also recent. > > The political tug of war of the medieval period > between Brahmins, Jains etc etc shouldnt dilute the > essence of the holy scriptues is what am trying to > say. > > Hope that I am not digressing from the main discussion > contents of this group. > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > Dear Bejoy ji, > > ==> > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > > predates > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > > infact > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us > > from > > time immemorial. > > <== > > The astronomy and systematic approach and > > presentation of Hipparchus > > is definitely different and more in tune with > > Nirayana astrology than > > the anarchic approach of vedas pinned to tropical > > astrology based on > > seasons and asterism alone. > > The Tropical astrology of vedas - which we can > > term Tropical or > > Sayana Astrology & The Nirayana astrology which is > > non-vedic in > > character and popular today (and finds it ancher in > > Suryasiddhanta) > > certainly followed distinctly different paths of > > development. > > ==> > > Aryabhata was candid enough to > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > > himself > > attributes to the Vedas. > > <== > > Oh! That is a new knowledge to me!! Where did > > Aryabhata told that > > the knowledge he presents is 'Vedic'?!!! He himself > > was a Jain, > > considered that the universe is made up of 4 > > elements only like the > > Jains and Lokayatas and unlike the 5 element theory > > of vedic sources, > > and was an out caste! That was why his writings > > where this much > > criticized by the vedic followers, hindus, brahmins > > - the whole world > > was against him! And you are saying that he > > attributed his source to > > Vedas?!! Can you quote your reference? > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , > > Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East > > and > > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of > > the > > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of > > India > > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there > > could > > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) > > which > > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / > > Babylon > > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > > natives propagating their knowledge another > > possible > > > cause ? > > > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > > predates > > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > > infact > > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us > > from > > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > > himself > > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch > > to > > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > > duration. The names of different months in the > > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th > > month. > > > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so > > on. > > > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, > > terminologies > > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests > > a > > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > > Indian texts. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in > > 2nd > > > > cent BC. He had > > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came > > about > > > > 600 years after and > > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > > computations are accurate to > > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > > accuracy was less as > > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > > which is a very > > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had > > nothing > > > > to do with actual > > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > > relative distances > > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii > > etc > > > > so that the > > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from > > Alexandria > > > > at the Cera Capital > > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port > > and > > > > Arab trade centre. > > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the > > golden > > > > period of Kerala > > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and > > wood > > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > > through foreign sources > > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian > > sources. > > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times > > which > > > > speak about the > > > > Golden age. > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > " vinita kumar " > > > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i > > knew > > > > more to make sense > > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > > contributions to > > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > > could compute the > > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > > === message truncated === > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www./r/hs > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear friends, My effort is not to belittle Indian. Be objective in understanding the things. There is no difference between Greek and Indian savants who devoted their lives to pursuit of knowledge. Nowadays it is a fashion to be blind Indian fed exclusively on subjective notions. Most of the Indian - be it Dravidians or Aryans - all came from outside - may be from Babylon- may be far beyond. Many Indians are now in US, many in Australia, UK etc. NRIs. In the same way the Indians are Non-Resident Russians, Non-Resident Babylonians, Non-Resident Assyrians, Non-Resident Cretians, Non-Resident Greeks etc. Remember the ancestral home sometimes, we shall loose the parochial notions. I don't have a soft copy or else I would have uploaded the paper on Vedic Mathematics. chandra hari , Sepp Rothwangl <calendersign wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hari, > > I am glad to stay in contact now with you having read a lot of your > articles in JIHS > Am 15.12.2007 um 17:35 schrieb chandra_hari18: > > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or > > Nalanda or Takshasila. > > You belitlle the Indian merits. > I would say, at least in times of Aryabhata they were equal ... > > > > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in > > the > > Vedas. > > Did you read e.g. Hamlets Mill? > You will find there a lot about the Indian mythic knowledge upon > precession. > > > > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn > > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > > accurately. > > > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > > > Think over > > Hmm ... > Could it be, because from Greeks and Babylonians more artefacts have > survived and that this area was better explored in modern times? > What if we knew more of the " pre-Siddhantic " astronomy and calendars? > > Servus > Sepp > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Dear Sreenath, All the info I have derived is by googling. Have never accessed any original texts .. Regards Bejoy C.S. www.keraladarsan.com --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Bejoy ji, > ==> > > Hope to find out the weblink where Aryabhata > > attributes some of his findings to the Vedas where > he > > mentions he was able to recover lost gems of Veda. > <== > Sorry... NO web links... If you have some > authentic reference (from > some ancient authentic book) provide it. Otherwise > forget it.. it is ok. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , > Bejoy <bejoy_cs > wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > Hope to find out the weblink where Aryabhata > > attributes some of his findings to the Vedas where > he > > mentions he was able to recover lost gems of Veda. > > > > But its a weblink which I read some months back > and > > needless to say, need not have to be authentic. > Will > > google it myself and send it across. > > > > Regarding Jainism, do you think it is mutually > > exclusive from Hinduism or both complements each > > other ? > > > > Like Buddhism ... could we say that Buddhism is > not > > connected with Hindusim - Who were Gautama Buddhas > > parents ... they were Hindus or members of Vedic > > culture... if we say the term HIndu is also > recent. > > > > The political tug of war of the medieval period > > between Brahmins, Jains etc etc shouldnt dilute > the > > essence of the holy scriptues is what am trying to > > say. > > > > Hope that I am not digressing from the main > discussion > > contents of this group. > > > > Regards > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > > Dear Bejoy ji, > > > ==> > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > > > predates > > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > > precession of equinox ) which present day > science > > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > > > infact > > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us > > > from > > > time immemorial. > > > <== > > > The astronomy and systematic approach and > > > presentation of Hipparchus > > > is definitely different and more in tune with > > > Nirayana astrology than > > > the anarchic approach of vedas pinned to > tropical > > > astrology based on > > > seasons and asterism alone. > > > The Tropical astrology of vedas - which we can > > > term Tropical or > > > Sayana Astrology & The Nirayana astrology which > is > > > non-vedic in > > > character and popular today (and finds it ancher > in > > > Suryasiddhanta) > > > certainly followed distinctly different paths of > > > development. > > > ==> > > > Aryabhata was candid enough to > > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > > > himself > > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > <== > > > Oh! That is a new knowledge to me!! Where did > > > Aryabhata told that > > > the knowledge he presents is 'Vedic'?!!! He > himself > > > was a Jain, > > > considered that the universe is made up of 4 > > > elements only like the > > > Jains and Lokayatas and unlike the 5 element > theory > > > of vedic sources, > > > and was an out caste! That was why his writings > > > where this much > > > criticized by the vedic followers, hindus, > brahmins > > > - the whole world > > > was against him! And you are saying that he > > > attributed his source to > > > Vedas?!! Can you quote your reference? > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , > > > Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle > East > > > and > > > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason > of > > > the > > > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities > of > > > India > > > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, > there > > > could > > > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) > > > which > > > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / > > > Babylon > > > > who got taught about the astronomical info in > the > > > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to > their > > > > natives propagating their knowledge another > > > possible > > > > cause ? > > > > > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas > > > predates > > > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > > > precession of equinox ) which present day > science > > > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is > > > infact > > > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to > us > > > from > > > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough > to > > > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he > > > himself > > > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit > touch > > > to > > > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > > > duration. The names of different months in the > > > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th > > > month. > > > > > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th > month. > > > > > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th > month. > > > > > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th > month. > > > > > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the > Romans > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Am 16.12.2007 um 13:54 schrieb Sreenadh: > Dear Hari and Sepp, > I have another question - What if the indians did kept the record > but that was in Palmyra leafs? Is it not a chance coincidence that the > Babylonian/Assyrian records where in clay tablets while the indian in > palm leafs - and this caused some proofs of such tables survived in > Babylon/Assyria but not in India? > Dear Sreenadh, exactly that was my allusion. Clay tablet live longer than palmyra leafs. And, what survived from ancient Greek is only a tiny fragment. > Note: What would have been our assumption about the Assyerian > knowledge and culture if those cuniform records did not have survived > - I wonder! I wonder what will come to light from ancient China, if we will be able to read and translate it ... Servus Sepp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 dear renu ji it is purely insult to our ancient bharathiya seers that he claims no indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy. That much respect & knowledge he has about our heritage. And interestingly he is participating in Ancient Indian Astrology discussion. Funny. Venkat renunw <renunw Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 5:09:07 AM Re: head is going round and round...... Dear learned members,Well said Chandrahari ji, Qoute -"No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala orNalanda or Takshasila.It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name asingle modern discovery or concept that has been made out of theinformation in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the Westeveryone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the Vedas." - UnquoteThis is what I call true patriotrism. Love thy nation and simultaneously respect the rights of other nations too. Although geographical boundaries have demarcated the nations humanity is one and all. blessingsRenu ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote:>> > Dear friend,> > You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First learn as> to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to Greeks> and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus?> > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala or> Nalanda or Takshasila.> > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a> single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the> information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West> everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in the> Vedas.> > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about> Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also learn> about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy,> including how they maintained their records. It is because of their> eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time> accurately.> > Why Indians had no such record keeping?> > Think over> > chandra hari> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Bejoy <bejoy_cs@>> wrote:> >> > Dear Sri Chandra Hari,> >> > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and> > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the> > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ?> >> > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India> > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could> > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which> > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon> > who got taught about the astronomical info in the> > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their> > natives propagating their knowledge another possible> > cause ?> >> > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates> > him by many years and certain info ( like the> > precession of equinox ) which present day science> > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact> > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from> > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to> > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself> > attributes to the Vedas.> >> > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to> > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or> > duration. The names of different months in the> > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it -> >> > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month.> >> > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month.> >> > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month.> >> > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month.> >> > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans> > decided to insert July and August to supposedly> > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby> > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on.> >> > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies> > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a> > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient> > Indian texts.> >> > Regards> >> > Bejoy C.S.> > www.keraladarsan. com> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Bejoy C.S.> > www.keraladarsan. com> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> >> > >> > > Dear Kumar,> > >> > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd> > > cent BC. He had> > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about> > > 600 years after and> > > he had good number of instruments and his> > > computations are accurate to> > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General> > > accuracy was less as> > > the test of their computations was eclipse times> > > which is a very> > > complicated issue.> > >> > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing> > > to do with actual> > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had> > > relative distances> > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc> > > so that the> > > parallax could be computed correctly.> > >> > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria> > > at the Cera Capital> > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and> > > Arab trade centre.> > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden> > > period of Kerala> > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood> > > etc with Egypt, Rome> > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more> > > through foreign sources> > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources.> > > Lot of coinage (Gold> > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which> > > speak about the> > > Golden age.> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > "vinita kumar"> > > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > > >> > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew> > > more to make sense> > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his> > > contributions to> > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he> > > could compute the> > > > circumfrence of the earth with such> > > precision?.. .and also come to> > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets,> > > declination of earth,> > > > path of orbit, etc?> > > >> > > > it appears that mathematics/ ganita is crucial to> > > abstract astronomy.> > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any> > > instruments of> > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita> > > for computations> > > > and for arriving at conclusions. ..and that too> > > with so> > > > much accuracy!!!! !> > > >> > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between> > > astrology and> > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first> > > accurate ephemeris?> > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time?> > > how can eclipses> > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the> > > ancient ephemiris?> > > >> > > > why are there common features in calendars across> > > the globe...?> > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using> > > planets (Mayaan> > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the> > > eclipse of Venus in> > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did> > > the calendars /> > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better> > > communication> > > > among civilisations across space and over time> > > than we can imagine?> > > >> > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers> > > have such good> > > > knowledge of the position of not only the> > > placement and movement of> > > > bodies in the solar system but also their> > > relationship with more> > > > distant and therefore relatively stable> > > stars/nakshatras in outer> > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles> > > of time / yugas,> > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the> > > macro of the cosmos?> > > >> > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on> > > this forum there> > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our> > > solar system revolved> > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis> > > revolved around the> > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around> > > Brahma....!? ...or> > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy,> > > according to modern> > > > day physics?> > > >> > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by> > > super intelligent> > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of> > > the brahmanda> > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then> > > codified it in> > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the> > > ephemiris? or could> > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could> > > anyway realize the> > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it> > > in ancient> > > > treatises?> > > >> > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies... but the fact> > > remains that> > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating> > > that i can only> > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the> > > world and the head> > > > spins around....and i marvel at my> > > ignorance... .even on this forum.> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ____\> ____________> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.> > http://www.. com/r/hs> >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Dear Venkat, Please don't make things personal - everybody has the right to keep their opinian. And the scholers usually form their opinian (right or wrong) after enough amount of study and home work. Hope it is clear. If you want to argue - argue by providing data and info supporting your arguments - Not otherwise. Stop rediculing - and be decent. Regards, Sreenadh , R Venkat <rdjvenkat wrote: > > dear renu ji > it is purely insult to our ancient bharathiya seers that he claims no indian > ever equalled their merit in Astronomy. That much respect & knowledge he has > about our heritage. And interestingly he is participating in Ancient Indian Astrology > discussion. Funny. > Venkat > > > > > > renunw <renunw > > Sunday, December 16, 2007 5:09:07 AM > Re: head is going round and round...... > > > Dear learned members, > > Well said Chandrahari ji, > Qoute - > " No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in Kerala > or > Nalanda or Takshasila. > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given in > the Vedas. " - Unquote > > This is what I call true patriotrism. Love thy nation and > simultaneously respect the rights of other nations too. Although > geographical boundaries have demarcated the nations humanity is one > and all. > > blessings > > Renu > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear friend, > > > > You don't know what kind of astronomy is in the Vedas. First > learn as > > to what is there in the Vedas and what could have been taught to > Greeks > > and Romans having such great names as Aristharchus and Hipparchus? > > > > No Indian ever equalled their merit in Astronomy - be it in > Kerala or > > Nalanda or Takshasila. > > > > It is easy to claim that everything is in the Vedas. Can you name a > > single modern discovery or concept that has been made out of the > > information in Vedas? Once someone discovers something in the West > > everyone is up to interpret Vedas and establish that it is given > in the > > Vedas. > > > > Read about the great Greek men also sometimes. Just read about > > Hipparchus and see how accurate he was in 2nd century BC? Also > learn > > about the Babylonian culture and their contributions to astronomy, > > including how they maintained their records. It is because of their > > eclipse records that today we are able to compute back in time > > accurately. > > > > Why Indians had no such record keeping? > > > > Think over > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Bejoy <bejoy_cs@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > Are the trade exchanges between the Middle East and > > > Kerala ( or India ) the only possible reason of the > > > diffusion of antique esoteric knowledge ? > > > > > > Or could it be that the ancient universities of India > > > like Nalanda and Taxila ( to name just 2, there could > > > be more still ancient than Nalanda & taxila ) which > > > would have had students from Rome / Greece / Babylon > > > who got taught about the astronomical info in the > > > Vedas and these students inturn returning to their > > > natives propagating their knowledge another possible > > > cause ? > > > > > > Hipparchus lived in 2nd century BC but Vedas predates > > > him by many years and certain info ( like the > > > precession of equinox ) which present day science > > > attributes as the observation of Hipparchus is infact > > > implicit in the Vedas or puranas passed on to us from > > > time immemorial. Aryabhata was candid enough to > > > acknowledge the source of his info - which he himself > > > attributes to the Vedas. > > > > > > The term Calendar itself has got a Sanskrit touch to > > > it --- Cal ( Kal ) is time and Andar is gap or > > > duration. The names of different months in the > > > Calendar also got Sanskrit essence to it - > > > > > > like Dec( dasam = 10 )ember , but its the 12th month. > > > > > > Nov ( Navam = 9 )ember , but its the 11th month. > > > > > > Octo ( Ashta = 8 ) ember, but its the 10th month. > > > > > > Sept ( Sapta = 7 ) ember, but its the 9th month. > > > > > > The variation of 2 months is because the Romans > > > decided to insert July and August to supposedly > > > felicilate Julius and Augustus Caeser and thereby > > > shifting Dec as the 12th, Nov as the 11th and so on. > > > > > > Coming to the point, the above names, terminologies > > > numerals are as said in the Vedas which suggests a > > > Roman/ Greek adaptation of the same from ancient > > > Indian texts. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan. com > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bejoy C.S. > > > www.keraladarsan. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kumar, > > > > > > > > Read about Hipparchus on the net. He lived in 2nd > > > > cent BC. He had > > > > instruments like the astrolabe. Aryabhata came about > > > > 600 years after and > > > > he had good number of instruments and his > > > > computations are accurate to > > > > minutes of arc in certain special cases. General > > > > accuracy was less as > > > > the test of their computations was eclipse times > > > > which is a very > > > > complicated issue. > > > > > > > > Diameter and distances in ancient times had nothing > > > > to do with actual > > > > values as we know in modern astronomy. They had > > > > relative distances > > > > correctly like Moon is at 60 times earth's radii etc > > > > so that the > > > > parallax could be computed correctly. > > > > > > > > Aryabhata worked with knowledge came from Alexandria > > > > at the Cera Capital > > > > Tondi (modern Ponnani) which was an ancient Port and > > > > Arab trade centre. > > > > Like the Gupta age in North Cera age was the golden > > > > period of Kerala > > > > with flourishing foreign trade on spices and wood > > > > etc with Egypt, Rome > > > > and Babylon. Kerala of those days is known more > > > > through foreign sources > > > > - accounts of visitors - than from Indian sources. > > > > Lot of coinage (Gold > > > > from Rome) has been unearthed in modern times which > > > > speak about the > > > > Golden age. > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > > > " vinita kumar " > > > > shankar_mamta@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > this forum is making my head spin. i wish i knew > > > > more to make sense > > > > > of things. just read abt aryabhatta and his > > > > contributions to > > > > > astronomy. was it only thru mathmatics that he > > > > could compute the > > > > > circumfrence of the earth with such > > > > precision?.. .and also come to > > > > > other conclusions regarding motion of planets, > > > > declination of earth, > > > > > path of orbit, etc? > > > > > > > > > > it appears that mathematics/ ganita is crucial to > > > > abstract astronomy. > > > > > presumably in ancient times they did not have any > > > > instruments of > > > > > measurement and therefore relied solely on ganita > > > > for computations > > > > > and for arriving at conclusions. ..and that too > > > > with so > > > > > much accuracy!!!! ! > > > > > > > > > > ephemeris is presumably one of the links between > > > > astrology and > > > > > astronomy. but then who constructed the first > > > > accurate ephemeris? > > > > > when and where? or did it evolve slowly over time? > > > > how can eclipses > > > > > be predicted so accurately even today based on the > > > > ancient ephemiris? > > > > > > > > > > why are there common features in calendars across > > > > the globe...? > > > > > lunar calendars, solar calendars, calendars using > > > > planets (Mayaan > > > > > calendar based on Venus and ending with the > > > > eclipse of Venus in > > > > > 2012?)calendars having seven days in a week? did > > > > the calendars / > > > > > ephemeris have a common origin or was there better > > > > communication > > > > > among civilisations across space and over time > > > > than we can imagine? > > > > > > > > > > to make any chart how could ancient astrologers > > > > have such good > > > > > knowledge of the position of not only the > > > > placement and movement of > > > > > bodies in the solar system but also their > > > > relationship with more > > > > > distant and therefore relatively stable > > > > stars/nakshatras in outer > > > > > space?....how did they know abt precession, cycles > > > > of time / yugas, > > > > > etc....combining the micro in the chart with the > > > > macro of the cosmos? > > > > > > > > > > not only this, but going by one of the messages on > > > > this forum there > > > > > was knowledge in the ancient times of how our > > > > solar system revolved > > > > > around the sapatarishis and how the saptarishis > > > > revolved around the > > > > > dhruva tara and how the dhruv tara revolved around > > > > Brahma....!? ...or > > > > > a huge black hole in the centre of the galaxy, > > > > according to modern > > > > > day physics? > > > > > > > > > > there is a theory that our planet was visited by > > > > super intelligent > > > > > creatures from outer space. could the knowledge of > > > > the brahmanda > > > > > been brought to earth by such beings who then > > > > codified it in > > > > > secret / hidden / obscure texts, including the > > > > ephemiris? or could > > > > > it be that rishis sitting in meditation could > > > > anyway realize the > > > > > brahmanda as an inner journey....and wrote abt it > > > > in ancient > > > > > treatises? > > > > > > > > > > it is easy to indulge fantasies... but the fact > > > > remains that > > > > > knowledge is sooooooooo vaste and so intimidating > > > > that i can only > > > > > stand stupefied, mouth open in wonder, as the > > > > world and the head > > > > > spins around....and i marvel at my > > > > ignorance... .even on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > ___\ > > ____________ > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > > > http://www.. com/r/hs > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Never miss a thing. Make your home page. > http://www./r/hs > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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