Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 At 08:21 PM 12/29/03 -0000, Average Man wrote: >1. Why isn't the ayanamsa uniform among astrologers calling >themselves followers of sidereal astrology!? This is a good question and one of the big reasons that Tropical astrologers are not very interested in the sidereal zodiac. The primary reason that there are several ayanamsas is that different astrologers **believe** their ayanamsa is the only correct one: The good news is that most modern astrologers use only three ayanamsas, and these three ayanamsas are less than one degree from each other. These ayanamsas are the Fagan-Bradley value used by western sidereal astrologers, and Lahiri and Krishnamurti (only 6 minutes apart) which are used by Jyotish astrologers. Raman's ayanamsa is the oldest ayanamsa used in India, and it does not appear to be linked to any star. This ayanamsa was an accident when there was confusion about the zodiac around 300-500 C.E. It was a Tropical zodiac that was adopted as the sidereal zodiac in India. Today those who use the Raman ayanamsa do so because of **tradition.** These astrologers don't want to change because they believe it would be an insult to Dr. B.V. Raman and his grandfather who taught him astrology. Astrologers who have tested the Raman ayanamsa say that it does not work in varga (divisional) charts such as the navamsa. (See K.N. Rao's TIMING EVENTS THROUGH VIMSHOTTARI DASA.) The Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa (researched by Cyril Fagan) has not been tested in the divisional charts. Any sidereal zodiac will work for predictive solar (varshaphal) and lunar return charts because the distance of planets from the angles and aspects between planets will be exactly the same. When Fagan did his research, computers were not available. Hence there is essentially no actual horoscope data to support this ayanamsa when **compared** to Lahiri or other ayanamsas. The Lahiri value was decided upon by an Indian government committee after much study and research by various scholars. The majority of astrologers in India have adopted this ayanamsa which places Spica at the Virgo-Libra junction. Krishnamurti modified this value by 6 minutes based on horary charts and predictive charts where he claimed to pinpoint the exact minute when an event would happen. It is difficult to determine if either the Lahiri or Krishnamurti values is more accurate in divisional charts because the two values are so close to each other. I don't want this post to be so long, so I will reply to your remaining questions in another post. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Respected Hamilton sir ! (Therese_Hamilton) Determining universally acceptable value of " Ayanamsa " is an vexed attempt by astrologers in predictive discipline of astrology ! as It is completely mathematical aspect ! Neither of the astrologer pinpointing the subscription (either Dr. B. V. Raman or Mr. Krishnamurthi or S.N.Rao) holding any authority in determining ayanamsa degree ! Definitely fagan & Lahiri is from the wing of Mathematical branch & upto now, till universal-acceptence, are reliable irrespective of self styled predictive astrology ! fagan & his team truly made an sincere attempt in this regard but during his period for lack of computing ability his research work ought to remain limited but still giving further scope to carry on with his research work. Sh Nirmal Chandra Lahiri, M.A. had been undoubtedly holding an authority (ganitachharya, Ganitkalanidhi, Former Member, International Astronomical Union (Paris), Former Secretary, Calendar Reform Committee (Government of India), Former Office-in-charge, Nautical Almanac Unit (Government Of India) for determining acceptable Ayanamsa but, in country like India Astrologers busy in prediction, are not sincere in coming together and be ready with their predictive instict to participate for the cause of computing universal value of Ayanamsa for welfare of comming generation ! Avoiding unnecessary lengthy narration let me finish in between with a commitment to reply yours in time earliest ! Thanking you HariOm Tiwari =================================================== Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote: At 08:21 PM 12/29/03 -0000, Average Man wrote: >1. Why isn't the ayanamsa uniform among astrologers calling >themselves followers of sidereal astrology!? This is a good question and one of the big reasons that Tropical astrologers are not very interested in the sidereal zodiac. The primary reason that there are several ayanamsas is that different astrologers **believe** their ayanamsa is the only correct one: The good news is that most modern astrologers use only three ayanamsas, and these three ayanamsas are less than one degree from each other. These ayanamsas are the Fagan-Bradley value used by western sidereal astrologers, and Lahiri and Krishnamurti (only 6 minutes apart) which are used by Jyotish astrologers. Raman's ayanamsa is the oldest ayanamsa used in India, and it does not appear to be linked to any star. This ayanamsa was an accident when there was confusion about the zodiac around 300-500 C.E. It was a Tropical zodiac that was adopted as the sidereal zodiac in India. Today those who use the Raman ayanamsa do so because of **tradition.** These astrologers don't want to change because they believe it would be an insult to Dr. B.V. Raman and his grandfather who taught him astrology. Astrologers who have tested the Raman ayanamsa say that it does not work in varga (divisional) charts such as the navamsa. (See K.N. Rao's TIMING EVENTS THROUGH VIMSHOTTARI DASA.) The Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa (researched by Cyril Fagan) has not been tested in the divisional charts. Any sidereal zodiac will work for predictive solar (varshaphal) and lunar return charts because the distance of planets from the angles and aspects between planets will be exactly the same. When Fagan did his research, computers were not available. Hence there is essentially no actual horoscope data to support this ayanamsa when **compared** to Lahiri or other ayanamsas. The Lahiri value was decided upon by an Indian government committee after much study and research by various scholars. The majority of astrologers in India have adopted this ayanamsa which places Spica at the Virgo-Libra junction. Krishnamurti modified this value by 6 minutes based on horary charts and predictive charts where he claimed to pinpoint the exact minute when an event would happen. It is difficult to determine if either the Lahiri or Krishnamurti values is more accurate in divisional charts because the two values are so close to each other. I don't want this post to be so long, so I will reply to your remaining questions in another post. Therese Enjoy some peaceful moment by visiting <http://www.godsadvice.com> India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 At 06:29 PM 1/4/04 -0000, Jesse wrote: >Two somewhat better methods [to compare ayanamsas] come to mind: > >1) Find people with significant objects--the luminaries or angular planets--in the first or last degree of a sign, and see whether their personality and behavior are more consistent with one sign or the other. There is a problem with this. Since there is no research that clearly demonstrates that the signs have specific traits, nothing is likely to show up. HOWEVER, recently I accidentally discovered something interesting. In looking at sign junction points, multiple births are occuring just between two signs. When these are all noted down, then it will be time to compare Fagan-Bradley with Lahiri. (The cases are from the Rodden-McDonough AstroDatabank.) There are also other anomalies at sign junctions. If I didn't need to sleep at night and could toss out all of my life except for astrology, this project and many others would be completed! >2) For natural disasters (and even mundane weather), take the solar and lunar ingress charts and see which ayanamsa demonstrates the most significant correlation between planet angularity and the event. (This is how the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa was developed, as you no doubt know.) The New Moon charts are likely to give the clearest pattern for different locales. These will be the same for different ayanamsas. However, if you mean ingresses of the Sun and Moon into signs of the zodiac, I rather doubt that these will give any results as (I believe) it's the lunar phase that is important. But anyone is welcome to try this research to see what turns up. I'm only giving my *opinion* on this. It's an opinion that isn't backed up by any research. >Using GRID charts would depend on finding a clear-cut astrological signature for the disease; GRID??? What is grid? >...the correlation between angular planets at the cardinal ingresses and natural disasters and the correlation between Sun/Moon signs and personality have been demonstrated far more significantly. Where is this research?? I've been asking for a long time, but no one has pointed me either to a book or a web site which discusses said research. There is no valid research that I know of that demonstrates any relationship between Sun-Moon and personality. We've had LOADS of natural disasters lately. Where are the horoscopes???!!! Where are the ingress charts??!! Like I said...if I didn't have to sleep or work....and had the money to set myself up alone in an isolated cabin away from my family.... Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Dear Friends - An analogy between music and jyotish, as proposed by a musician friend of mine, may help to understand the coexistence of different ayanamsas. Think of the 12 signs as analogous to the 12 piano keys in an octave. The nine grahas and the lagna are analogous to the ten fingers playing on the 12 keys. Any melody, played in any key, (key of C, or C sharp, D, E flat, F, etc. remains the same melody, although it is performed at a higher or lower pitch. At different times, in different places, various temperaments have been used for tuning the piano. Currently, in America, the A440 pitch is the standard. Orchestras are tuned to that standard so that all play consonantly together. To preserve consonance in the orchestra, it is essential that all instruments be tuned to the same standard pitch. However, it does not matter whether the orchestra adopts A440, or A428, or some other tuning, so long as all play together to the same tuning. However, some believe that there must be a tuning which is more in tune with cosmic reality. We are still looking for conclusive evidence to support the adoption of, let us say, A428 instead of A440 or A at some other frequency. In the meanwhile, the melodies and harmonies of Vivaldi's Four Seasons, still evoke the characteristics of the 4 elements - warm, cold, moist, dry - and their respective seasons, no matter if the orchestra is tuned to A440 or A428. Likewise, jyotish practitioners using different ayanamsas can come up with accurate readings. Yanis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Dear Yanis ji, Thanks for the beautiful note - I truly liked and enjoyed your perspective. Please continue providing such interesting, inspiring and unique views time and again. Love and Hugs, Sreenadh , " yanis_d " <yanis wrote: > > Dear Friends - > An analogy between music and jyotish, as proposed by a musician friend > of mine, may help to understand the coexistence of different ayanamsas. > Think of the 12 signs as analogous to the 12 piano keys in an octave. > The nine grahas and the lagna are analogous to the ten fingers playing > on the 12 keys. > Any melody, played in any key, (key of C, or C sharp, D, E flat, F, > etc. remains the same melody, although it is performed at a higher or > lower pitch. > At different times, in different places, various temperaments have > been used for tuning the piano. Currently, in America, the A440 pitch > is the standard. Orchestras are tuned to that standard so that all > play consonantly together. To preserve consonance in the orchestra, it > is essential that all instruments be tuned to the same standard pitch. > However, it does not matter whether the orchestra adopts A440, or > A428, or some other tuning, so long as all play together to the same > tuning. > However, some believe that there must be a tuning which is more in > tune with cosmic reality. We are still looking for conclusive evidence > to support the adoption of, let us say, A428 instead of A440 or A at > some other frequency. In the meanwhile, the melodies and harmonies of > Vivaldi's Four Seasons, still evoke the characteristics of the 4 > elements - warm, cold, moist, dry - and their respective seasons, no > matter if the orchestra is tuned to A440 or A428. > Likewise, jyotish practitioners using different ayanamsas can come up > with accurate readings. > > Yanis > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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