Fwd: [VRI] We are celebrating all our festivals on wrong days!

[Guest guest]

Shri Amitabh Shastriji,

Namaskar!

Thanks for the informative post.

 

<Thus the total age of a Mahayug comprising of one

cycle of Sat, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug has been said to be 4,320,000

years and it has been said that this is the LCM of planetary movement

through the cosmos; i.e. planets would return to the same position

after this period or one cycle of their movement would be completed.>

 

I the above quote, you have said " it has been said " . However, you

have not mentoned as to who has said it and when and in what context!

 

As you know, in astronomy, we cannot go by just the statements, " it

has been said " unless we are sure as to who has said it and unles we

can prove it mathematically!

 

The again, you have said in the same quote, " this is the LCM of

planetary movement through the cosmos;>

 

Is it the LCM of sidereal period in days or months or years or what

exactly? Such statements make confusion worst confounded!

 

You have also said

<This is one of the fundamental concept of time advocated in our

ancient scriptures.>

 

Which scripture?

 

 

<Excavations off Dwarka coast in Gujarat have been

dated to be around 3000 years old and we are said be around 5000

years into Kaliyug. This, fortunately, is widely accepted by all...

Vedas for long have been Shruti and Smriti texts followed by

Brahmans. Aranyaks, Vedangas etc. Puranic texts are of much later

date and are more historical in nature!>

 

Excavations of Dwarka etc. are historical facts and go against what

has been written in the Valmiki Ramayana etc. that Bhagwan Ram was

born hundreds of thousands of years back and " Dashrath ruled for

sixty thousand years " and " Shri Ram ruled for ten thousand years "

and so on

 

However, the most ironical part is that when it comes to prepring

birth charts of Bhagwan Ram etc. " Vedic astrologers " prefer to go by

scinetific findings that He could not have Incarnated more than

about ten thousand years back, at the most! But when it comes to

describing the planetary longitudes, they go by the same Valmiki

Ramayana that " He was born in Shukla-Paksha Navmi of Madhumasa of

Vasanta Ritu, with the sun in Mesha and the Moon and Jupiter in

Cancer, besides five planets in exaltaion/own signs " .

 

That is really " having the cake and eat it as well " .

With regards,

AKK

 

 

, Amitabh Shastri

<amitabh_shastri wrote:

>

> Dear Kaulji,

>

> My two cents on this.

>

> It has long been advocated that the life of

> Kaliyug is 432,000 years. The previous yugas were in simple

multiples

> of this basic figure. Thus Dwapar, Treta and Satyug were 2, 3 and 4

> times respectively. Thus the total age of a Mahayug comprising of

one

> cycle of Sat, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug has been said to be

4,320,000

> years and it has been said that this is the LCM of planetary

movement

> through the cosmos; i.e. planets would return to the same position

> after this period or one cycle of their movement would be

completed.

> This is one of the fundamental concept of time advocated in our

ancient

> scriptures.

>

> This period, I recall reading somewhere (regret do not remember

the source), relates to the degree of truthful nature or so called

religiousness of mankind, in general. Thus in each yuga it is 100,

75, 50 and 25 percents respectively commencing from Satyuga.

>

> While

> I do not dispute the scientific fats about the Ice Age, unwritten

history etc, my query is

> with regard to the positions mentioned by Maharshi Valmiki. Did he

give all planetary positions for an event? The learned scholars may

be able to shed some

> light on this aspect.

>

> Excavations off Dwarka coast in Gujarat have been

> dated to be around 3000 years old and we are said be around 5000

years into Kaliyug. This, fortunately, is widely accepted by all...

>

> Vedas for long have been Shruti and Smriti texts followed by

Brahmans. Aranyaks, Vedangas etc. Puranic texts are of much later

date and are more historical in nature!

>

>

>

> Regards,

> Amitabh Shastri

>

>

>

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved

>

> Tuesday, 23 October, 2007 10:34:55 PM

> Fwd: Re: [VRI] We are

celebrating all our festivals on wrong days!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

Namaskar!

<We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival

on correct day is the least of the worries.>

 

I am afraid I do not agree with you there! Efforts to make us

celebrate festivals on correct days have been going on at least over

the last two centuries! There would have been no " Saha Calendar

Reform Committee " in 1954 otherwise nor would there have been

several other commitees later!

Similarly, celebrating festivals on correct days is a measure

worry even today! Every year we have a lot of hair splitting whether

Janmashtami should be celebraed on the day for which a government

holiday has been declared (i.e. Vaishnava) or the day which

preceds that (i.e. Smartas!). Endless discussion and meetings are

held but the issue remains unresolved since vested interests want to

have it on both the days so that they can earn more " dakshina "

and " offerings " .

 

I remeber that in Kashmir every year there would be a lot

of " shastra-arth " and even fisticuffs as to when the Herath i.e.

Maha-shivaratri was to be celebrated -- whether on the day the

Brahman Mahamandal wanted it or the day when Vijayeshwar Jantri had

advised it!

 

Then in Gujarat and Maharashtra etc. every Hindu waits with a baited

breath for Dipavali to start his new financial year on a proper

muhurta! Pongal is celebrated with zest throughout south India and

so is Makar Sankranti (another name of Pongal) throughout North

India! It appears you have forgotten Kumbha melas of the recent

past when litrally billions of people gathered to celebrte Makar

Sankranti and other festivals! I do not, therefore, know how you

hae arrived at the conclusion that it is " least of the worries " .

 

The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha, the earliest available

indigenous work of astronomy compiled in Kashmir around 14th century

BCE is very emphatic that that work was being compiled so that

people could calculate proper tithi and nakshatra etc. for rituals

i.e. festivals! Same is the case with Sidhanta Shiromani of

Bhasakara-II of 12th century AD. It repeats the same purpose of

astronomical compilations---calculation of proper tithi, nkahsatra

etc. for rituals i.e. festivals!

 

In fact these two works viz. the VJ and the Sidhanta Shiromani are

the Alpha and Omega of indigenous astronomy--and both have advised

that (instead of running after jyotishis for having your horoscopes

deciphered) a panchanga etc. is to be compiled so that rituals are

performed at proper timings!

 

If we continue to celebrate festivals on wrong days, a day will come

when we will be celebrating the Makar Sankranti-cum-Pongal i.e.

Uttarayana Day (i.e. Winter Solstice---the shortest day of the

year!) on real Dakshinaya i.e. Summer Solstice, the longest day of

the year! We are already a laughing stock in the eyes of

astronomers! After some time we will become a laughing stock in the

eyes of our own offspring who will be intelligent enough to realize

as to how coward and unintelligent their ancestors were that they

did not know even ABC of the phenomenon of seasons!

Do you want that we must wait for that tpe of a revolution? Well

that is exactly like the pigeon burying its head under sand on

seeing the cat. Maybe some people have that type of an attitude

(and I am not sure it is an entirely selfless attitude!) but at

least I am not a party to that type of view.

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

WAVES-Vedic , " Sneha Mehta " <snehajimehta@>

wrote:

>

> I do not understand this fixation on celebrating festival on wrong

date. We

> have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival on

correct

> day is the least of the worries. Be happy that they are

celebrated, not

> forgotten. I hope this discussion will stop and writers would

talk of more

> pressing and urgent issues facing Hindu Society.

>

> Sneha Mehta

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

hir, In this particular context I wish to submit the following. Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic pattern. Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different environmental and natural conditions. There is a difference of 19 days between the north and south of Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac). For example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of Sravan. As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is important , so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami. Shri Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami may not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar calender where as

Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So also Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is very important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when Krishna Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya , the birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the same the attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different. Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a Festival some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja at home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes of the vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is not in the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our faith and culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not as a declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of the individual as pesr their cumtoms. Hari. Venkataramanrved wrote: WAVES-Vedic , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,Namaskar!<We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival on correct day is the least of the worries.>I am afraid I do not agree with you there! Efforts to make us celebrate festivals on correct days have been going on at least over the last two centuries! There would have been no "Saha Calendar Reform Committee" in 1954 otherwise nor would there have been several other commitees later!Similarly, celebrating festivals on correct days is a measure worry even today! Every year we have a lot of hair splitting whether Janmashtami should be celebraed on the day for which a government holiday has been declared (i.e. Vaishnava) or the day which preceds

that (i.e. Smartas!). Endless discussion and meetings are held but the issue remains unresolved since vested interests want to have it on both the days so that they can earn more "dakshina" and "offerings".I remeber that in Kashmir every year there would be a lot of "shastra-arth" and even fisticuffs as to when the Herath i.e. Maha-shivaratri was to be celebrated -- whether on the day the Brahman Mahamandal wanted it or the day when Vijayeshwar Jantri had advised it!Then in Gujarat and Maharashtra etc. every Hindu waits with a baited breath for Dipavali to start his new financial year on a proper muhurta! Pongal is celebrated with zest throughout south India and so is Makar Sankranti (another name of Pongal) throughout North India! It appears you have forgotten Kumbha melas of the recent past when litrally billions of people gathered to celebrte Makar Sankranti and other festivals! I do not, therefore,

know how you hae arrived at the conclusion that it is "least of the worries".The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha, the earliest available indigenous work of astronomy compiled in Kashmir around 14th century BCE is very emphatic that that work was being compiled so that people could calculate proper tithi and nakshatra etc. for rituals i.e. festivals! Same is the case with Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhasakara-II of 12th century AD. It repeats the same purpose of astronomical compilations---calculation of proper tithi, nkahsatra etc. for rituals i.e. festivals!In fact these two works viz. the VJ and the Sidhanta Shiromani are the Alpha and Omega of indigenous astronomy--and both have advised that (instead of running after jyotishis for having your horoscopes deciphered) a panchanga etc. is to be compiled so that rituals are performed at proper timings!If we continue to celebrate festivals on wrong

days, a day will come when we will be celebrating the Makar Sankranti-cum-Pongal i.e. Uttarayana Day (i.e. Winter Solstice---the shortest day of the year!) on real Dakshinaya i.e. Summer Solstice, the longest day of the year! We are already a laughing stock in the eyes of astronomers! After some time we will become a laughing stock in the eyes of our own offspring who will be intelligent enough to realize as to how coward and unintelligent their ancestors were that they did not know even ABC of the phenomenon of seasons!Do you want that we must wait for that tpe of a revolution? Well that is exactly like the pigeon burying its head under sand on seeing the cat. Maybe some people have that type of an attitude (and I am not sure it is an entirely selfless attitude!) but at least I am not a party to that type of view.With regards,Avtar Krishen Kaul WAVES-Vedic , "Sneha Mehta" <snehajimehta@> wrote:>> I do not understand this fixation on celebrating festival on wrong date. We> have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival on correct> day is the least of the worries. Be happy that they are celebrated, not> forgotten. I hope this discussion will stop and writers would talk of more> pressing and urgent issues facing Hindu Society.> > Sneha Mehta>--- End forwarded message ---

For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month.

[Guest guest]

Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

Namaskar!

Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark. The only

problem arises about the months! For example, when we say Bhagwan

Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India) Krishna

Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra) Krishna

Paksha start!

 

There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about such

topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6. Pl.

peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we are

celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different month from

the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N. Raghunathan

(Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

" ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who from his

central place warms with his heat and lights up with his rays the

three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed time

with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds characteristic of the

different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination), the

Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata (equinox);

making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as he

transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit through

Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs, Taurus and

the following, the days grow longer, while every month the nights

become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When he moves

through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the lengths of

the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go on

lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

 

Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the same book

i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava etc. and

then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha! In

other words, there was no difference between the names of Vedic

months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-solar

counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the puranas just

as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and Tapah month

in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

 

Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of geographical

and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah with

Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also, Makara

Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of the year

and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all these

puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it is

Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali almost

exactly after one month of the real date!

 

Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so called

Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could never

have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha or

Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so called

sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that Lahiri

Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in itself

another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara Rishi!

 

There are similar references from other puranas also and these have

been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove beyond all

the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never existed

a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either! As

such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be neither

Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl) must do

a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

 

Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is a

difference of one day in one and the same festival for different

places in one and the same country! The simple answer to that

question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress timing is

after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if it is

between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in case of

certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of different

states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha starts i.e.

Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in some

year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal, Aggartala

etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date eary

year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will celebrate

the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date (March

6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those places on

that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise timings of

J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means it is

Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise and Shukla

pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the time of

sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will celebrate

Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise is a

must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon does not

rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there is a

difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

 

However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar or the

lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and two

solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R.

Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as such,

Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day and not

as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the case

with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to seasons

and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called nirayana

rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on the

Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be discarded. The

earlier we do so the better!

Wht regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

 

, Venkataraman Hari

<venkataraman_hari wrote:

>

> hir,

> In this particular context I wish to submit the following.

Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic pattern.

Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different

environmental and natural conditions.

> There is a difference of 19 days between the north and south of

Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac). For

example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the

midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of Sravan.

As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is important ,

so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami. Shri

Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami may

not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar

calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So also

Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is very

important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when Krishna

Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya , the

birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the same the

> attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a Festival

some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja at

home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes of the

vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is not in

the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our faith and

culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not as a

declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of the

individual as pesr their cumtoms.

>

>

Hari. Venkataraman

> rved wrote:

> WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> Namaskar!

> <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival

> on correct day is the least of the worries.>

>

> I am afraid I do not agree with you there! Efforts to make us

> celebrate festivals on correct days have been going on at least

over

> the last two centuries! There would have been no " Saha Calendar

> Reform Committee " in 1954 otherwise nor would there have been

> several other commitees later!

> Similarly, celebrating festivals on correct days is a measure

> worry even today! Every year we have a lot of hair splitting

whether

> Janmashtami should be celebraed on the day for which a government

> holiday has been declared (i.e. Vaishnava) or the day which

> preceds that (i.e. Smartas!). Endless discussion and meetings are

> held but the issue remains unresolved since vested interests want

to

> have it on both the days so that they can earn more " dakshina "

> and " offerings " .

>

> I remeber that in Kashmir every year there would be a lot

> of " shastra-arth " and even fisticuffs as to when the Herath i.e.

> Maha-shivaratri was to be celebrated -- whether on the day the

> Brahman Mahamandal wanted it or the day when Vijayeshwar Jantri

had

> advised it!

>

> Then in Gujarat and Maharashtra etc. every Hindu waits with a

baited

> breath for Dipavali to start his new financial year on a proper

> muhurta! Pongal is celebrated with zest throughout south India and

> so is Makar Sankranti (another name of Pongal) throughout North

> India! It appears you have forgotten Kumbha melas of the recent

> past when litrally billions of people gathered to celebrte Makar

> Sankranti and other festivals! I do not, therefore, know how you

> hae arrived at the conclusion that it is " least of the worries " .

>

> The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha, the earliest available

> indigenous work of astronomy compiled in Kashmir around 14th

century

> BCE is very emphatic that that work was being compiled so that

> people could calculate proper tithi and nakshatra etc. for rituals

> i.e. festivals! Same is the case with Sidhanta Shiromani of

> Bhasakara-II of 12th century AD. It repeats the same purpose of

> astronomical compilations---calculation of proper tithi, nkahsatra

> etc. for rituals i.e. festivals!

>

> In fact these two works viz. the VJ and the Sidhanta Shiromani are

> the Alpha and Omega of indigenous astronomy--and both have advised

> that (instead of running after jyotishis for having your

horoscopes

> deciphered) a panchanga etc. is to be compiled so that rituals are

> performed at proper timings!

>

> If we continue to celebrate festivals on wrong days, a day will

come

> when we will be celebrating the Makar Sankranti-cum-Pongal i.e.

> Uttarayana Day (i.e. Winter Solstice---the shortest day of the

> year!) on real Dakshinaya i.e. Summer Solstice, the longest day of

> the year! We are already a laughing stock in the eyes of

> astronomers! After some time we will become a laughing stock in

the

> eyes of our own offspring who will be intelligent enough to

realize

> as to how coward and unintelligent their ancestors were that they

> did not know even ABC of the phenomenon of seasons!

> Do you want that we must wait for that tpe of a revolution? Well

> that is exactly like the pigeon burying its head under sand on

> seeing the cat. Maybe some people have that type of an attitude

> (and I am not sure it is an entirely selfless attitude!) but at

> least I am not a party to that type of view.

> With regards,

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

> WAVES-Vedic , " Sneha Mehta " <snehajimehta@>

> wrote:

> >

> > I do not understand this fixation on celebrating festival on

wrong

> date. We

> > have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival

on

> correct

> > day is the least of the worries. Be happy that they are

> celebrated, not

> > forgotten. I hope this discussion will stop and writers would

> talk of more

> > pressing and urgent issues facing Hindu Society.

> >

> > Sneha Mehta

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Kaul,

 

>>...As such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

neither Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl)

must do a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!<<

 

Please, hold your horses, Mr. Kaul? Recently I wrote two messages to

you without getting any respons at all. If you are simply ignoring the

arguments and documentation which is presented to you, then what is

the point of debating with you?

 

:-)

 

Finn

 

 

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> Namaskar!

> Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark. The only

> problem arises about the months! For example, when we say Bhagwan

> Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India) Krishna

> Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra) Krishna

> Paksha start!

>

> There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about such

> topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6. Pl.

> peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we are

> celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different month from

> the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N. Raghunathan

> (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who from his

> central place warms with his heat and lights up with his rays the

> three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed time

> with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds characteristic of the

> different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination), the

> Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata (equinox);

> making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as he

> transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

> succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit through

> Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs, Taurus and

> the following, the days grow longer, while every month the nights

> become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When he moves

> through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the lengths of

> the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

> Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go on

> lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

>

> Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the same book

> i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava etc. and

> then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha! In

> other words, there was no difference between the names of Vedic

> months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-solar

> counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the puranas just

> as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and Tapah month

> in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

>

> Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of geographical

> and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah with

> Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also, Makara

> Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of the year

> and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all these

> puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it is

> Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali almost

> exactly after one month of the real date!

>

> Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so called

> Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could never

> have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha or

> Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so called

> sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that Lahiri

> Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in itself

> another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara Rishi!

>

> There are similar references from other puranas also and these have

> been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove beyond all

> the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never existed

> a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either! As

> such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be neither

> Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl) must do

> a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

>

> Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is a

> difference of one day in one and the same festival for different

> places in one and the same country! The simple answer to that

> question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

> starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress timing is

> after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if it is

> between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in case of

> certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of different

> states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha starts i.e.

> Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in some

> year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal, Aggartala

> etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date eary

> year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will celebrate

> the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date (March

> 6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those places on

> that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise timings of

> J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means it is

> Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise and Shukla

> pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the time of

> sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will celebrate

> Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

> Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise is a

> must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon does not

> rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there is a

> difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

>

> However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar or the

> lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and two

> solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R.

> Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as such,

> Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day and not

> as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the case

> with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to seasons

> and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called nirayana

> rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on the

> Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be discarded. The

> earlier we do so the better!

> Wht regards,

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

>

> , Venkataraman Hari

> <venkataraman_hari@> wrote:

> >

> > hir,

> > In this particular context I wish to submit the following.

> Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic pattern.

> Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> > developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different

> environmental and natural conditions.

> > There is a difference of 19 days between the north and south of

> Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac). For

> example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the

> midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of Sravan.

> As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is important ,

> so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

> Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami. Shri

> Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami may

> not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar

> calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So also

> Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is very

> important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when Krishna

> Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

> Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya , the

> birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the same the

> > attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

> Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

> emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a Festival

> some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja at

> home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes of the

> vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is not in

> the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our faith and

> culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not as a

> declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

> conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of the

> individual as pesr their cumtoms.

> >

> >

> Hari. Venkataraman

> > rved@> wrote:

> > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival

> > on correct day is the least of the worries.>

> >

> > I am afraid I do not agree with you there! Efforts to make us

> > celebrate festivals on correct days have been going on at least

> over

> > the last two centuries! There would have been no " Saha Calendar

> > Reform Committee " in 1954 otherwise nor would there have been

> > several other commitees later!

> > Similarly, celebrating festivals on correct days is a measure

> > worry even today! Every year we have a lot of hair splitting

> whether

> > Janmashtami should be celebraed on the day for which a government

> > holiday has been declared (i.e. Vaishnava) or the day which

> > preceds that (i.e. Smartas!). Endless discussion and meetings are

> > held but the issue remains unresolved since vested interests want

> to

> > have it on both the days so that they can earn more " dakshina "

> > and " offerings " .

> >

> > I remeber that in Kashmir every year there would be a lot

> > of " shastra-arth " and even fisticuffs as to when the Herath i.e.

> > Maha-shivaratri was to be celebrated -- whether on the day the

> > Brahman Mahamandal wanted it or the day when Vijayeshwar Jantri

> had

> > advised it!

> >

> > Then in Gujarat and Maharashtra etc. every Hindu waits with a

> baited

> > breath for Dipavali to start his new financial year on a proper

> > muhurta! Pongal is celebrated with zest throughout south India and

> > so is Makar Sankranti (another name of Pongal) throughout North

> > India! It appears you have forgotten Kumbha melas of the recent

> > past when litrally billions of people gathered to celebrte Makar

> > Sankranti and other festivals! I do not, therefore, know how you

> > hae arrived at the conclusion that it is " least of the worries " .

> >

> > The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha, the earliest available

> > indigenous work of astronomy compiled in Kashmir around 14th

> century

> > BCE is very emphatic that that work was being compiled so that

> > people could calculate proper tithi and nakshatra etc. for rituals

> > i.e. festivals! Same is the case with Sidhanta Shiromani of

> > Bhasakara-II of 12th century AD. It repeats the same purpose of

> > astronomical compilations---calculation of proper tithi, nkahsatra

> > etc. for rituals i.e. festivals!

> >

> > In fact these two works viz. the VJ and the Sidhanta Shiromani are

> > the Alpha and Omega of indigenous astronomy--and both have advised

> > that (instead of running after jyotishis for having your

> horoscopes

> > deciphered) a panchanga etc. is to be compiled so that rituals are

> > performed at proper timings!

> >

> > If we continue to celebrate festivals on wrong days, a day will

> come

> > when we will be celebrating the Makar Sankranti-cum-Pongal i.e.

> > Uttarayana Day (i.e. Winter Solstice---the shortest day of the

> > year!) on real Dakshinaya i.e. Summer Solstice, the longest day of

> > the year! We are already a laughing stock in the eyes of

> > astronomers! After some time we will become a laughing stock in

> the

> > eyes of our own offspring who will be intelligent enough to

> realize

> > as to how coward and unintelligent their ancestors were that they

> > did not know even ABC of the phenomenon of seasons!

> > Do you want that we must wait for that tpe of a revolution? Well

> > that is exactly like the pigeon burying its head under sand on

> > seeing the cat. Maybe some people have that type of an attitude

> > (and I am not sure it is an entirely selfless attitude!) but at

> > least I am not a party to that type of view.

> > With regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > WAVES-Vedic , " Sneha Mehta " <snehajimehta@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I do not understand this fixation on celebrating festival on

> wrong

> > date. We

> > > have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating festival

> on

> > correct

> > > day is the least of the worries. Be happy that they are

> > celebrated, not

> > > forgotten. I hope this discussion will stop and writers would

> > talk of more

> > > pressing and urgent issues facing Hindu Society.

> > >

> > > Sneha Mehta

> > >

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Finn Wandahl ji,

Namaskar!

I really envy the ones who can reply posts " instantaneously " ! For

answering a post/message from someone like you who knows what he is

talking about I have to do a lot of homework! Reply to one of your

posts is as such, " under cnstruction " and may take a day or two.

Please let me know the other post that remains unanswered after

going through the " imminent " reply. In the meantime, please go

through " Koshur6 " , BVB6, Rashi5 and npj3 documents etc. that are

already in the files section of this forum.

Regards,

A K Kaul

, " Finn Wandahl "

<finn.wandahl wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Kaul,

>

> >>...As such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

> neither Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn

Wandahl)

> must do a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!<<

>

> Please, hold your horses, Mr. Kaul? Recently I wrote two messages

to

> you without getting any respons at all. If you are simply ignoring

the

> arguments and documentation which is presented to you, then what is

> the point of debating with you?

>

> :-)

>

> Finn

>

>

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark. The

only

> > problem arises about the months! For example, when we say

Bhagwan

> > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India) Krishna

> > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra)

Krishna

> > Paksha start!

> >

> > There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about such

> > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6. Pl.

> > peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we are

> > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different month

from

> > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

Raghunathan

> > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who from

his

> > central place warms with his heat and lights up with his rays

the

> > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed

time

> > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds characteristic of

the

> > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination), the

> > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata

(equinox);

> > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as he

> > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

> > succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit

through

> > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs, Taurus

and

> > the following, the days grow longer, while every month the

nights

> > become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When he

moves

> > through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the lengths

of

> > the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

> > Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go on

> > lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

> >

> > Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the same

book

> > i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava etc.

and

> > then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha! In

> > other words, there was no difference between the names of Vedic

> > months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-solar

> > counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the puranas

just

> > as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and Tapah

month

> > in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

> >

> > Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of

geographical

> > and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah with

> > Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also,

Makara

> > Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of the

year

> > and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all these

> > puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it is

> > Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali almost

> > exactly after one month of the real date!

> >

> > Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so

called

> > Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could

never

> > have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha or

> > Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so called

> > sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that

Lahiri

> > Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in

itself

> > another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara Rishi!

> >

> > There are similar references from other puranas also and these

have

> > been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove beyond

all

> > the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never

existed

> > a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either! As

> > such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

neither

> > Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl)

must do

> > a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

> >

> > Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is a

> > difference of one day in one and the same festival for different

> > places in one and the same country! The simple answer to that

> > question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

> > starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress timing

is

> > after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if it

is

> > between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in case

of

> > certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of different

> > states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha starts

i.e.

> > Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in

some

> > year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal, Aggartala

> > etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date eary

> > year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will

celebrate

> > the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date

(March

> > 6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those places on

> > that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise timings

of

> > J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means it is

> > Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise and

Shukla

> > pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the time

of

> > sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will

celebrate

> > Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

> > Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise is

a

> > must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon does

not

> > rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there is

a

> > difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

> >

> > However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar or

the

> > lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and

two

> > solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R.

> > Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as such,

> > Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day and

not

> > as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the

case

> > with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to

seasons

> > and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called

nirayana

> > rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on the

> > Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be discarded.

The

> > earlier we do so the better!

> > Wht regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> > , Venkataraman

Hari

> > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote:

> > >

> > > hir,

> > > In this particular context I wish to submit the

following.

> > Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic

pattern.

> > Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> > > developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different

> > environmental and natural conditions.

> > > There is a difference of 19 days between the north and south

of

> > Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac).

For

> > example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the

> > midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of

Sravan.

> > As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is

important ,

> > so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

> > Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami.

Shri

> > Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami

may

> > not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar

> > calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So also

> > Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is

very

> > important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when

Krishna

> > Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

> > Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya ,

the

> > birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the

same the

> > > attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

> > Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

> > emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a Festival

> > some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja

at

> > home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes of

the

> > vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is not

in

> > the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our faith

and

> > culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not

as a

> > declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

> > conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of

the

> > individual as pesr their cumtoms.

> > >

> >

>

> > Hari. Venkataraman

> > > rved@> wrote:

> > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating

festival

> > > on correct day is the least of the worries.>

> > >

> > > I am afraid I do not agree with you there! Efforts to make us

> > > celebrate festivals on correct days have been going on at

least

> > over

> > > the last two centuries! There would have been no " Saha

Calendar

> > > Reform Committee " in 1954 otherwise nor would there have been

> > > several other commitees later!

> > > Similarly, celebrating festivals on correct days is a measure

> > > worry even today! Every year we have a lot of hair splitting

> > whether

> > > Janmashtami should be celebraed on the day for which a

government

> > > holiday has been declared (i.e. Vaishnava) or the day which

> > > preceds that (i.e. Smartas!). Endless discussion and meetings

are

> > > held but the issue remains unresolved since vested interests

want

> > to

> > > have it on both the days so that they can earn more " dakshina "

> > > and " offerings " .

> > >

> > > I remeber that in Kashmir every year there would be a lot

> > > of " shastra-arth " and even fisticuffs as to when the Herath

i.e.

> > > Maha-shivaratri was to be celebrated -- whether on the day the

> > > Brahman Mahamandal wanted it or the day when Vijayeshwar

Jantri

> > had

> > > advised it!

> > >

> > > Then in Gujarat and Maharashtra etc. every Hindu waits with a

> > baited

> > > breath for Dipavali to start his new financial year on a

proper

> > > muhurta! Pongal is celebrated with zest throughout south India

and

> > > so is Makar Sankranti (another name of Pongal) throughout

North

> > > India! It appears you have forgotten Kumbha melas of the

recent

> > > past when litrally billions of people gathered to celebrte

Makar

> > > Sankranti and other festivals! I do not, therefore, know how

you

> > > hae arrived at the conclusion that it is " least of the

worries " .

> > >

> > > The Vedanga Jyotisha by Acharya Lagadha, the earliest

available

> > > indigenous work of astronomy compiled in Kashmir around 14th

> > century

> > > BCE is very emphatic that that work was being compiled so that

> > > people could calculate proper tithi and nakshatra etc. for

rituals

> > > i.e. festivals! Same is the case with Sidhanta Shiromani of

> > > Bhasakara-II of 12th century AD. It repeats the same purpose

of

> > > astronomical compilations---calculation of proper tithi,

nkahsatra

> > > etc. for rituals i.e. festivals!

> > >

> > > In fact these two works viz. the VJ and the Sidhanta Shiromani

are

> > > the Alpha and Omega of indigenous astronomy--and both have

advised

> > > that (instead of running after jyotishis for having your

> > horoscopes

> > > deciphered) a panchanga etc. is to be compiled so that rituals

are

> > > performed at proper timings!

> > >

> > > If we continue to celebrate festivals on wrong days, a day

will

> > come

> > > when we will be celebrating the Makar Sankranti-cum-Pongal

i.e.

> > > Uttarayana Day (i.e. Winter Solstice---the shortest day of the

> > > year!) on real Dakshinaya i.e. Summer Solstice, the longest

day of

> > > the year! We are already a laughing stock in the eyes of

> > > astronomers! After some time we will become a laughing stock

in

> > the

> > > eyes of our own offspring who will be intelligent enough to

> > realize

> > > as to how coward and unintelligent their ancestors were that

they

> > > did not know even ABC of the phenomenon of seasons!

> > > Do you want that we must wait for that tpe of a revolution?

Well

> > > that is exactly like the pigeon burying its head under sand on

> > > seeing the cat. Maybe some people have that type of an

attitude

> > > (and I am not sure it is an entirely selfless attitude!) but

at

> > > least I am not a party to that type of view.

> > > With regards,

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > WAVES-Vedic , " Sneha Mehta "

<snehajimehta@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I do not understand this fixation on celebrating festival on

> > wrong

> > > date. We

> > > > have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating

festival

> > on

> > > correct

> > > > day is the least of the worries. Be happy that they are

> > > celebrated, not

> > > > forgotten. I hope this discussion will stop and writers

would

> > > talk of more

> > > > pressing and urgent issues facing Hindu Society.

> > > >

> > > > Sneha Mehta

> > > >

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Kaul,

 

>>...Please let me know the other post that remains unanswered after

going through the " imminent " reply...<<

 

No, you are right. The only post that remains unanswered is message

nr. 3914.

 

>>...In the meantime, please go through " Koshur6 " , BVB6, Rashi5 and

npj3 documents etc. that are already in the files section of this

forum...<<

 

I have already read some of your articles in the files section. It may

or may not have been not ones you mention here.

 

However, An article which made much impression on me was the one about

your background in Kashmir with your Grandfather being a great Hindu

astrologer etc. etc.. Anyway, this particular articles left some

questions in my mind that I would very much like to ask you some day.

If, however, you would feel this to be too much imposing on you past,

then of course I can understand.

 

:-)

 

Finn

[Guest guest]

HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

Namaskar!

<You must seperate out those festivals which depend on seasons

only. They should be treated seperately.>

 

Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in pre-Surya Sidhanta

era were related to seasons, as they should actually be, and lunar

(synodic)months are subservient to solar months, there is no

festival that can be separated from seasons, as such!

 

<There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is ancient

and scietific system.>

 

Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no such malady as

ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so much so that none

of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa, has even talked

about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc " Vedic astrologers "

would still not be groping in darkness as to which Ayanamsha

is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue amongh themselves,

then they can submit it to scientists and astronomers for a peer

review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to resolve the

ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when the sky falls " .

As the sky is not going to fall at least for a million years, so you

can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going to be resolved for

another million years either---since it is actually " niradhar " --

i.e. baseless.

 

<This forum is becoming astrology forum.

I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

 

I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times: " you have to

choose either of the two i.e. either calendar reform or 'Vedic

astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the so called

nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to do --

continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud or proceed on the

path of calendar reform. The choice is for " jyotishis " to make --

not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

 

 

Since the so called

 

HinduCalendar , " prafulla Vaman Mendki "

<prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

>

> Dear Avtarji

> Namaskar!

> This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> Also not all festivals are wrong.You must seperate out those

> festivals which depend on seasons only. They should be treated

> seperately.

> Also more information about festivals from ancient times is

> needed for people to think.

> There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is ancient

> and scietific system.

> Prafulla

> HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark. The

> only

> > problem arises about the months! For example, when we say

Bhagwan

> > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India) Krishna

> > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra)

> Krishna

> > Paksha start!

> >

> > There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about such

> > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6. Pl.

> > peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we are

> > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different month

> from

> > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> Raghunathan

> > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who from

his

> > central place warms with his heat and lights up with his rays

the

> > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed

time

> > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds characteristic of

> the

> > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination), the

> > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata

(equinox);

> > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as he

> > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

> > succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit

through

> > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs, Taurus

and

> > the following, the days grow longer, while every month the

nights

> > become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When he

> moves

> > through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the lengths

of

> > the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

> > Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go on

> > lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

> >

> > Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the same

> book

> > i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava etc.

> and

> > then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha! In

> > other words, there was no difference between the names of Vedic

> > months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-solar

> > counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the puranas

> just

> > as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and Tapah

> month

> > in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

> >

> > Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of

geographical

> > and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah with

> > Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also,

Makara

> > Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of the

> year

> > and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all these

> > puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it is

> > Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali almost

> > exactly after one month of the real date!

> >

> > Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so

> called

> > Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could

never

> > have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha or

> > Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so called

> > sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that

Lahiri

> > Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in

> itself

> > another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara Rishi!

> >

> > There are similar references from other puranas also and these

> have

> > been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove beyond

all

> > the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never

> existed

> > a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either! As

> > such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

neither

> > Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl)

must

> do

> > a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

> >

> > Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is a

> > difference of one day in one and the same festival for different

> > places in one and the same country! The simple answer to that

> > question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

> > starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress timing

is

> > after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if it

is

> > between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in case

of

> > certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of different

> > states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha starts

i.e.

> > Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in

some

> > year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal, Aggartala

> > etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date eary

> > year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will

celebrate

> > the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date

> (March

> > 6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those places on

> > that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise timings

of

> > J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means it is

> > Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise and

> Shukla

> > pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the time

of

> > sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will

celebrate

> > Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

> > Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise is

a

> > must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon does

not

> > rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there is

a

> > difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

> >

> > However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar or

> the

> > lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and

two

> > solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R.

> > Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as such,

> > Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day and

> not

> > as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the

case

> > with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to

seasons

> > and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called

nirayana

> > rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on the

> > Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be discarded.

> The

> > earlier we do so the better!

> > Wht regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> > , Venkataraman

Hari

> > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote:

> > >

> > > hir,

> > > In this particular context I wish to submit the

> following.

> > Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic

> pattern.

> > Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> > > developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different

> > environmental and natural conditions.

> > > There is a difference of 19 days between the north and south

> of

> > Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac).

For

> > example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the

> > midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of

> Sravan.

> > As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is

> important ,

> > so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

> > Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami.

Shri

> > Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami

may

> > not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar

> > calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So also

> > Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is

very

> > important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when

> Krishna

> > Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

> > Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya ,

> the

> > birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the

same

> the

> > > attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

> > Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

> > emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a Festival

> > some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja

at

> > home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes of

> the

> > vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is not

> in

> > the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our faith

> and

> > culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not

as

> a

> > declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

> > conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of

> the

> > individual as pesr their cumtoms.

> > >

> >

>

>

> > Hari. Venkataraman

> > > rved@> wrote:

> > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating

> festival

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

==>

> It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to do --

> continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud or proceed on the

> path of calendar reform. The choice is for " jyotishis " to make --

> not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

<==

Do you know a cute fact? Go to: /

Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an astrology group.

And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your group, comes second

in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click search. Do you

see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not there..lol.. )

As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click search. There is not

even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

Conclusion: Your group is more popular for astrology than for

Calendar reform! All the best!

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> Namaskar!

> <You must seperate out those festivals which depend on seasons

> only. They should be treated seperately.>

>

> Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in pre-Surya Sidhanta

> era were related to seasons, as they should actually be, and lunar

> (synodic)months are subservient to solar months, there is no

> festival that can be separated from seasons, as such!

>

> <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is ancient

> and scietific system.>

>

> Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no such malady as

> ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so much so that none

> of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa, has even talked

> about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc " Vedic

astrologers "

> would still not be groping in darkness as to which Ayanamsha

> is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue amongh themselves,

> then they can submit it to scientists and astronomers for a peer

> review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to resolve the

> ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when the sky falls " .

> As the sky is not going to fall at least for a million years, so

you

> can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going to be resolved

for

> another million years either---since it is actually " niradhar " --

> i.e. baseless.

>

> <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

>

> I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times: " you have to

> choose either of the two i.e. either calendar reform or 'Vedic

> astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the so called

> nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to do --

 

> continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud or proceed on the

> path of calendar reform. The choice is for " jyotishis " to make --

 

> not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> With regards,

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

>

>

> Since the so called

>

> HinduCalendar , " prafulla Vaman Mendki "

> <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Avtarji

> > Namaskar!

> > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must seperate out those

> > festivals which depend on seasons only. They should be treated

> > seperately.

> > Also more information about festivals from ancient times is

> > needed for people to think.

> > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is ancient

> > and scietific system.

> > Prafulla

> > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > , " Avtar Krishen

> > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark. The

> > only

> > > problem arises about the months! For example, when we say

> Bhagwan

> > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India)

Krishna

> > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra)

> > Krishna

> > > Paksha start!

> > >

> > > There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about

such

> > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6. Pl.

> > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we are

> > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different month

> > from

> > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > Raghunathan

> > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who from

> his

> > > central place warms with his heat and lights up with his rays

> the

> > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed

> time

> > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds characteristic

of

> > the

> > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination), the

> > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata

> (equinox);

> > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as he

> > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

> > > succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit

> through

> > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs, Taurus

> and

> > > the following, the days grow longer, while every month the

> nights

> > > become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When he

> > moves

> > > through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the lengths

> of

> > > the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

> > > Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go on

> > > lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

> > >

> > > Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the same

> > book

> > > i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava

etc.

> > and

> > > then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha! In

> > > other words, there was no difference between the names of Vedic

> > > months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-solar

> > > counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the puranas

> > just

> > > as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and Tapah

> > month

> > > in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

> > >

> > > Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of

> geographical

> > > and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah with

> > > Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also,

> Makara

> > > Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of the

> > year

> > > and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all these

> > > puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it is

> > > Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali almost

> > > exactly after one month of the real date!

> > >

> > > Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so

> > called

> > > Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could

> never

> > > have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha or

> > > Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so

called

> > > sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that

> Lahiri

> > > Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in

> > itself

> > > another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara Rishi!

> > >

> > > There are similar references from other puranas also and these

> > have

> > > been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove beyond

> all

> > > the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never

> > existed

> > > a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either! As

> > > such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

> neither

> > > Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl)

> must

> > do

> > > a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

> > >

> > > Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is a

> > > difference of one day in one and the same festival for

different

> > > places in one and the same country! The simple answer to that

> > > question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

> > > starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress timing

> is

> > > after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if it

> is

> > > between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in case

> of

> > > certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of different

> > > states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha starts

> i.e.

> > > Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in

> some

> > > year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal,

Aggartala

> > > etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date eary

> > > year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will

> celebrate

> > > the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date

> > (March

> > > 6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those places

on

> > > that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise timings

> of

> > > J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means it

is

> > > Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise and

> > Shukla

> > > pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the time

> of

> > > sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will

> celebrate

> > > Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

> > > Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise is

> a

> > > must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon does

> not

> > > rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there is

> a

> > > difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

> > >

> > > However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar or

> > the

> > > lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes and

> two

> > > solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R.

> > > Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as such,

> > > Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day and

> > not

> > > as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the

> case

> > > with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to

> seasons

> > > and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called

> nirayana

> > > rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on the

> > > Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be discarded.

> > The

> > > earlier we do so the better!

> > > Wht regards,

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > >

> > > , Venkataraman

> Hari

> > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hir,

> > > > In this particular context I wish to submit the

> > following.

> > > Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic

> > pattern.

> > > Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> > > > developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with different

> > > environmental and natural conditions.

> > > > There is a difference of 19 days between the north and

south

> > of

> > > Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga(Alamnac).

> For

> > > example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in the

> > > midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of

> > Sravan.

> > > As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is

> > important ,

> > > so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

> > > Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami.

> Shri

> > > Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even Ashtami

> may

> > > not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per lunar

> > > calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So

also

> > > Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which is

> very

> > > important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when

> > Krishna

> > > Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

> > > Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is Amavasya ,

> > the

> > > birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the

> same

> > the

> > > > attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

> > > Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

> > > emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a

Festival

> > > some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do pooja

> at

> > > home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different tastes

of

> > the

> > > vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is

not

> > in

> > > the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our

faith

> > and

> > > culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays not

> as

> > a

> > > declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as to

> > > conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice of

> > the

> > > individual as pesr their cumtoms.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> > > Hari. Venkataraman

> > > > rved@> wrote:

> > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating

> > festival

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Sreenadh ji,

Namaskar!

 

<Conclusion: Your group is more popular for astrology than for

Calendar reform! :>

 

And following is the " frontispiece " of HinduCalendar forum, for

anybody to see, where there is no mincing of words!

With regards,

AKK

*** **** **** **** *** *** **** ***

" VEDIC ASTROLOGY " IS ACTUALLY THE GREATEST FRAUD ON THE VEDAS AS IT

HAS DONE THE MAXIMUM DAMAGE TO OUR CULTURAL FABRIC BY MAKING US

CELEBRATE ALL OUR FESTIVALS AND MUHURTAS ON WRONG DAYS. THESE " VEDIC

ASTROLOGERS " DO NOT KNOW EVEN ABC OF OUR SHASTRAS AS OTHERWISE THEY

WOULD NOT CLAIM THAT THE " VEDANGA JYOTISHA " IS LINKED TO PREDICTIVE

GIMMICKS WHEN ACTUALLY IT JUST TELLS US THE METHODOLOGY OF

CALCULATING TITHI, NAKSHATRA AND THE SOLAR TAPAH/MAGHA ETC. MONTHS

AND LUNAR MONTHS OF SIMILAR NAMES, ALL LINKED TO THE FOUR CARDINAL

POINTS VIZ. THE TWO SOLSTICES AND TWO EQUINOXES.

The Vedic and even Pauranic calendar and rituals were linked to

seasons and luni-solar (synodic) months were pegged to the same, but

thanks to these " jyotishis " , we are celebrating winter solstice on

January 14/15 instead of December 21 etc. as against the canons of

all the Vedas, Puranas, and other shastras besides even primary

school level geography!

There are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotishs

nor is there any mention of planets like Mangal and Shani etc. in

any of these scriptures. Even astronomically, there are no Lahiri or

Ramana or Fagan or even Sayna Rashis and these are just the

creations of nirayana or sayana " Jyotishis/astrologers " just to

prove the superiority of their preditctive gimmicks. The actual

Vedic calendar is lniked to six Vedic seasons and does not function

according to the whims of " Lahiriwallas " or " Ramanawallas " . As such,

Uttarayana is nothing but Witner Solstice and it was the start of

the same Tapah month that was known as Makar Sankranti later as per

the puranas.

We must therefore realign our calendar immediately to the seasons if

we want the real Vedic dharma to flourish really.

Singing paens in the praise of the Vedas is otherwise just a fad of

these " Vedc Astrologers " and/or their stooges, since when it comes

to taking the bull by the horn, they just retreat in silence to

their shells or quote some irrelevant snippents. OM TAT SAT "

*** *** *** **** **** **** *** **** *** ***

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kaul ji,

> ==>

> > It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to do --

> > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud or proceed on

the

> > path of calendar reform. The choice is for " jyotishis " to

make --

> > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> <==

> Do you know a cute fact? Go to: /

> Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an astrology

group.

> And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your group, comes

second

> in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

> And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click search. Do

you

> see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not there..lol.. )

> As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click search. There is

not

> even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

> Conclusion: Your group is more popular for astrology than for

> Calendar reform! All the best!

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > <You must seperate out those festivals which depend on seasons

> > only. They should be treated seperately.>

> >

> > Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in pre-Surya

Sidhanta

> > era were related to seasons, as they should actually be, and

lunar

> > (synodic)months are subservient to solar months, there is no

> > festival that can be separated from seasons, as such!

> >

> > <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is ancient

> > and scietific system.>

> >

> > Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no such malady as

> > ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so much so that

none

> > of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa, has even

talked

> > about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc " Vedic

> astrologers "

> > would still not be groping in darkness as to which Ayanamsha

> > is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue amongh

themselves,

> > then they can submit it to scientists and astronomers for a peer

> > review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to resolve the

> > ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when the sky

falls " .

> > As the sky is not going to fall at least for a million years, so

> you

> > can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going to be resolved

> for

> > another million years either---since it is actually " niradhar " -

-

> > i.e. baseless.

> >

> > <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

> >

> > I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times: " you have to

> > choose either of the two i.e. either calendar reform or 'Vedic

> > astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the so called

> > nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to

do --

>

> > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud or proceed on

the

> > path of calendar reform. The choice is for " jyotishis " to

make --

>

> > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > With regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> >

> > Since the so called

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " prafulla Vaman Mendki "

> > <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Avtarji

> > > Namaskar!

> > > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must seperate out those

> > > festivals which depend on seasons only. They should be

treated

> > > seperately.

> > > Also more information about festivals from ancient times is

> > > needed for people to think.

> > > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar which is

ancient

> > > and scietific system.

> > > Prafulla

> > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar

Krishen

> > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up to the mark.

The

> > > only

> > > > problem arises about the months! For example, when we say

> > Bhagwan

> > > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for Northern India)

> Krishna

> > > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does Shravana (Bhadra)

> > > Krishna

> > > > Paksha start!

> > > >

> > > > There are quite a few documents from me in this forum about

> such

> > > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b and BVB6.

Pl.

> > > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself as to how we

are

> > > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely different

month

> > > from

> > > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > > Raghunathan

> > > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all scorchers, who

from

> > his

> > > > central place warms with his heat and lights up with his

rays

> > the

> > > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at the appointed

> > time

> > > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds

characteristic

> of

> > > the

> > > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern declination),

the

> > > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the Vaishuvata

> > (equinox);

> > > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to the nights, as

he

> > > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal divisions in

> > > > succession. Days and nights are equal during his transit

> > through

> > > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the five signs,

Taurus

> > and

> > > > the following, the days grow longer, while every month the

> > nights

> > > > become shorter by one ghatika (twenty-four minutes). When

he

> > > moves

> > > > through the five signs, Scoprio and the rest, then the

lengths

> > of

> > > > the day and the night are reversed. From Uttarayana to

> > > > Dakshinayana, the days go on increasing while the nights go

on

> > > > lengthening, from Dakshinayana to Uttarayana " .

> > > >

> > > > Then again in Book 12, Chapter 11 shlokas 21 to 45, in the

same

> > > book

> > > > i.e. Bhagavata the months have been named as Madhu, Madhava

> etc.

> > > and

> > > > then in 42nd sholka we find the month of Pushya after Saha!

In

> > > > other words, there was no difference between the names of

Vedic

> > > > months like Madhu, Madhava and their solar or even luni-

solar

> > > > counter parts like Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. even in the

puranas

> > > just

> > > > as there was no difference between Magha, Uttarayana and

Tapah

> > > month

> > > > in the Vedanga Jyotisha!

> > > >

> > > > Then Vishnu Purana, Amsha 2, Chapter eight is full of

> > geographical

> > > > and astronomical references which clubs Vedic months Tapah

with

> > > > Makara and Magha and so on. According to that Purana also,

> > Makara

> > > > Sankranti is another name of Uttarayana, the shotest day of

the

> > > year

> > > > and Karka another name of Dakshinayana! Thus as per all

these

> > > > puranas etc. we are celebrating all the festivals whether it

is

> > > > Mahashivaratri or Ramanavmi or Janmashtami or Dipavali

almost

> > > > exactly after one month of the real date!

> > > >

> > > > Just BTW, it also means that if at all there existed some so

> > > called

> > > > Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra by Maharshi Parashara it could

> > never

> > > > have been writtn on the basis an " almighty " Lahiri Ayanamsha

or

> > > > Ramana Ayanamsha or even Muladhara Ayanamsha, but on a so

> called

> > > > sayana basis! Thus the claims of " Vedic astrologers " that

> > Lahiri

> > > > Ayanamsha is the most suitable for predictive gimmicks is in

> > > itself

> > > > another fraud being perpetrated in the name of Parashara

Rishi!

> > > >

> > > > There are similar references from other puranas also and

these

> > > have

> > > > been culled in 1999b document and also BVB6 which prove

beyond

> > all

> > > > the reasonable and even unreasonable doubts that there never

> > > existed

> > > > a so called nirayana Rashi chakra in the puranas either!

As

> > > > such, " Pauranic astrologers " who presuume astrology to be

> > neither

> > > > Vedic nor Tantric but just Pauranic (like Shri Finn Wandahl)

> > must

> > > do

> > > > a rethink about their jyotish and ayanamsha!

> > > >

> > > > Another question asked very frequently is as to why there is

a

> > > > difference of one day in one and the same festival for

> different

> > > > places in one and the same country! The simple answer to

that

> > > > question is that in case of Sankrantis, some states take the

> > > > starting day of a sankranti the next day if the ingress

timing

> > is

> > > > after sunset wehreas some states take it for the same day if

it

> > is

> > > > between one sunrise and the next and so on! Similarly, in

case

> > of

> > > > certain tithis, it depends on the sunrise timing of

different

> > > > states. For example, let us say Chaitra Shukla Paksha

starts

> > i.e.

> > > > Phalguna/Chaitra Krishna Amavasya ends at 6 am on March 6 in

> > some

> > > > year. The sunrise in Guwahati, Kohima, Aijwal Imphal,

> Aggartala

> > > > etc. is usually before that time i.e. six am on that date

eary

> > > > year. As such, Assm, Nagaland, Tripura etc. states will

> > celebrate

> > > > the Chaitri Navratra i.e. Ugadi/Gudi Parva etc. on that date

> > > (March

> > > > 6) since Chaitra Shula Pratipat is prevailing at those

places

> on

> > > > that date at the time of sunrise. However, the sunrise

timings

> > of

> > > > J & K, AP, Delhi etc. are after 6 am on March 6. That means

it

> is

> > > > Amavasya pevailing at those places at the time of sunrise

and

> > > Shukla

> > > > pratipat has yet to start, which will be prevailing at the

time

> > of

> > > > sunrise only on March 7. As such, all these places will

> > celebrate

> > > > Gudi Padva etc. the next day i.e. March 7 then.

> > > > Same is the case with several other fesitvals where moonrise

is

> > a

> > > > must at the time the tithi is prevailing. Since the moon

does

> > not

> > > > rise at all places at one and the same time, sometimes there

is

> > a

> > > > difference of one day in such festivals betwen two states!

> > > >

> > > > However, the bedrock of all the festivals, whether the solar

or

> > > the

> > > > lunar are the four cardinal points viz. the two equinoxes

and

> > two

> > > > solstices. These never deviate to oblige Mr. Lahiri or Mrs.

R.

> > > > Uttarayana is always the shortest day of the year and as

such,

> > > > Pongal-cum-Makar-Sankranti has to be celebrated on that day

and

> > > not

> > > > as and when it may please Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! Same is the

> > case

> > > > with all the other sankrantis -- they are all related to

> > seasons

> > > > and not to Mr. Lahiri or Mrs. R! As such, the so called

> > nirayana

> > > > rashis and festivals are meaningless and in fact a slur on

the

> > > > Vedas, Puranas and other shastras! They have to be

discarded.

> > > The

> > > > earlier we do so the better!

> > > > Wht regards,

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > >

> > > > ,

Venkataraman

> > Hari

> > > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > hir,

> > > > > In this particular context I wish to submit the

> > > following.

> > > > Hindu Festivals are celebrated mostly in an individualistic

> > > pattern.

> > > > Social Assembly, mass prayer, group prayers are recent

> > > > > developments. Our Bharat is a vast country with

different

> > > > environmental and natural conditions.

> > > > > There is a difference of 19 days between the north and

> south

> > > of

> > > > Vindhyas with regard to various aspects of Panchanga

(Alamnac).

> > For

> > > > example Shri Krishna Jayanthi. Shri Krishna took birth in

the

> > > > midnight of Ashtami thiti, Sravana Nakshtra in the month of

> > > Sravan.

> > > > As per the Thiti Nirnaya of Smartha Community Ashtami is

> > > important ,

> > > > so the day when there is Ashtami thiti in the Midnight of

> > > > Krishnapaksha In Sravana Masa they celebrate Krishnashtami.

> > Shri

> > > > Ramanuja gave importance to Sravna Nakshatram and even

Ashtami

> > may

> > > > not be in the night. Smarthas take sravana month as per

lunar

> > > > calender where as Vaishnavaite take as per Solar system. So

> also

> > > > Deepavali. For South Indians it is Naraka Chaturdasi which

is

> > very

> > > > important and taking Oil Bath in the very early morning when

> > > Krishna

> > > > Chaturdasi thiti is there is the most sacred celebration of

> > > > Deepavali, i.e. Ganga Snana. For many in north it is

Amavasya ,

> > > the

> > > > birth of a new year is important. Though the Festival is the

> > same

> > > the

> > > > > attitude and concept and celebrating ways are different.

> > > > Different Acharyas have given different interpretations and

> > > > emphasised different aspects of the Festival. Even in a

> Festival

> > > > some obs serve fast, some simply visit Temples, some do

pooja

> > at

> > > > home some enjoy festvity.ll is there to suit different

tastes

> of

> > > the

> > > > vast society. No uniform code is possible. But the Unity is

> not

> > > in

> > > > the uniformity and congregation but a firm footing iln our

> faith

> > > and

> > > > culture. Govern;ment should declare Hindu Fesival Holidays

not

> > as

> > > a

> > > > declared closesd holiday but as a restrictive holidays so as

to

> > > > conveniently celebrate the Hindu festivals as per the chaice

of

> > > the

> > > > individual as pesr their cumtoms.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> > > > Hari. Venkataraman

> > > > > rved@> wrote:

> > > > > WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar

Krishen

> > > Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sushri Sneha Mehta ji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > <We have so many challenges facing us and not celebrating

> > > festival

> > >

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi AKK & all in the group,

 

The difference between the day on which our festivals

are celebrated and the right date on which it ought to

be celebrated as I understand is 23 days.

 

Has the 23.4 degree axial tilt of the earth with

respect to the Sun got to do anything with this ?

 

Could anyone throw light ?

 

Needless to say, it doesnt appear to be a 23-23

coincidence. The earth takes 1 day to cover 1 degree

in orbit. So eventhough March 21 marks Vernal Equinox

when the earth comes inline with the Sun but it takes

23 days more .. i.e 14th April ( celebrated as Vishu

in states like Kerala ) for its axis to align itself

with the Sun.

 

Sorry .. am just a beginner in this area and my

inference might sound too naive. But I would

appreciate if you could provide some insights for me.

 

Regards

 

Bejoy C.S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

> Dear Kaul ji,

> ==>

> > It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to

> do --

> > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> or proceed on the

> > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> " jyotishis " to make --

> > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> <==

> Do you know a cute fact? Go to:

> /

> Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an

> astrology group.

> And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your

> group, comes second

> in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

> And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click

> search. Do you

> see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not

> there..lol.. )

> As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click

> search. There is not

> even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

> Conclusion: Your group is more popular for

> astrology than for

> Calendar reform! All the best!

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ,

> " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved wrote:

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > <You must seperate out those festivals which

> depend on seasons

> > only. They should be treated seperately.>

> >

> > Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in

> pre-Surya Sidhanta

> > era were related to seasons, as they should

> actually be, and lunar

> > (synodic)months are subservient to solar months,

> there is no

> > festival that can be separated from seasons, as

> such!

> >

> > <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> which is ancient

> > and scietific system.>

> >

> > Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no

> such malady as

> > ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so

> much so that none

> > of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa,

> has even talked

> > about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc

> " Vedic

> astrologers "

> > would still not be groping in darkness as to which

> Ayanamsha

> > is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue

> amongh themselves,

> > then they can submit it to scientists and

> astronomers for a peer

> > review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to

> resolve the

> > ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when

> the sky falls " .

> > As the sky is not going to fall at least for a

> million years, so

> you

> > can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going

> to be resolved

> for

> > another million years either---since it is

> actually " niradhar " --

> > i.e. baseless.

> >

> > <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

> >

> > I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times:

> " you have to

> > choose either of the two i.e. either calendar

> reform or 'Vedic

> > astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the

> so called

> > nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what

> they want to do --

>

> > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> or proceed on the

> > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> " jyotishis " to make --

>

> > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > With regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> >

> > Since the so called

> >

> > HinduCalendar , " prafulla

> Vaman Mendki "

> > <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Avtarji

> > > Namaskar!

> > > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must

> seperate out those

> > > festivals which depend on seasons only. They

> should be treated

> > > seperately.

> > > Also more information about festivals from

> ancient times is

> > > needed for people to think.

> > > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> which is ancient

> > > and scietific system.

> > > Prafulla

> > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> , " Avtar

> Krishen

> > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up

> to the mark. The

> > > only

> > > > problem arises about the months! For example,

> when we say

> > Bhagwan

> > > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for

> Northern India)

> Krishna

> > > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does

> Shravana (Bhadra)

> > > Krishna

> > > > Paksha start!

> > > >

> > > > There are quite a few documents from me in

> this forum about

> such

> > > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b

> and BVB6. Pl.

> > > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself

> as to how we are

> > > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely

> different month

> > > from

> > > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata

> 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > > Raghunathan

> > > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all

> scorchers, who from

> > his

> > > > central place warms with his heat and lights

> up with his rays

> > the

> > > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at

> the appointed

> > time

> > > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds

> characteristic

> of

> > > the

> > > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern

> declination), the

> > > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the

> Vaishuvata

> > (equinox);

> > > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to

> the nights, as he

> > > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal

> divisions in

> > > > succession. Days and nights are equal during

> his transit

> > through

> > > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the

> five signs, Taurus

> > and

> > > > the following, the days grow longer, while

> every month the

> > nights

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Benoy ji,

You are right - Kaul is in favor of the Tropical Zodiac, and the

popular calender is Nirayana based (with a fixed point as the starting

point - which is 'first point of Aries'). Astrology as we know today

uses the Nirayana Zodiac (I am also in support of it), even though

Tropical Zodiac and astrology is present here right from the Vedic

period itself.

Astrology as we know it from Rishi horas and as we know it today

DOES NOT suggest that seasonal festivals should be celebrated as per

Nirayana Zodiac. For the sages the Nirayana zodiac was a tool to

decipher human destiny. Kaul ji argues that all festivals (he does not

even agree that non-seasonal festivals could present at all!) should

be celebrated as per the ever changing (yes, due to the axial tilt and

motions of earth as you mentioned) Seasonal Tropical Zodiac. And since

popular astrology is what causing people to stick to Nirayana zodiac -

Kaul is againt astrology.

In short if you want to know more about the Seasonal shift, related

astronomy, tropical zodiac etc discuss with Kaul ji. He has his own

grup at: HinduCalendar/ (But try to keep

unafected by his hatred towards many things)

If you want to discuss ancient indian astrology discuss it here -

this group is in support of astrology, and not against it - whether it

be based on Nirayana Zodiac or Tropical Zodiac. But note that most of

the astrologers in this group are in favor of Nirayana Zodiac and its

use in astrology. But we don't have anything against someone using

seasonal Tropical Calendar to celebrate seasonal festival - actually

we support it; that seems to be correct path at least in the case of

seasonal festivals.

Note: The 'starting point of Aries (Meshadi or Aswinyadi)' is a

fixed point (It it the starting point of Nirayana Zodiac divisions).

Ya, April 14 is here.

The 'starting point of Tropical Zodiac' is the Vernal Equinox - and

the movement of 4 cardinal points (Winter & Summer solstices, Vernal

and Autumn Equinoxes) is given maximum importance. The vernal equinox

is the starting point of Tropical zodiac. Ya, March 21 is here.

The vernal equinox moves at the rate of approx 50 sec per year. i.e.

the difference between Meshadi and Vernal equinox increases every year

and so the 'Ayanamsa' (the distance between these two points) used by

Astrologers also increase in value every year.

Hope that this much description shows some light on the issue.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, Bejoy <bejoy_cs

wrote:

>

>

> Hi AKK & all in the group,

>

> The difference between the day on which our festivals

> are celebrated and the right date on which it ought to

> be celebrated as I understand is 23 days.

>

> Has the 23.4 degree axial tilt of the earth with

> respect to the Sun got to do anything with this ?

>

> Could anyone throw light ?

>

> Needless to say, it doesnt appear to be a 23-23

> coincidence. The earth takes 1 day to cover 1 degree

> in orbit. So eventhough March 21 marks Vernal Equinox

> when the earth comes inline with the Sun but it takes

> 23 days more .. i.e 14th April ( celebrated as Vishu

> in states like Kerala ) for its axis to align itself

> with the Sun.

>

> Sorry .. am just a beginner in this area and my

> inference might sound too naive. But I would

> appreciate if you could provide some insights for me.

>

> Regards

>

> Bejoy C.S.

>

--- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

>

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > ==>

> > > It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to

> > do --

> > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > or proceed on the

> > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > " jyotishis " to make --

> > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > <==

> > Do you know a cute fact? Go to:

> > /

> > Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an

> > astrology group.

> > And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your

> > group, comes second

> > in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

> > And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click

> > search. Do you

> > see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not

> > there..lol.. )

> > As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click

> > search. There is not

> > even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

> > Conclusion: Your group is more popular for

> > astrology than for

> > Calendar reform! All the best!

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ,

> > " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <You must seperate out those festivals which

> > depend on seasons

> > > only. They should be treated seperately.>

> > >

> > > Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in

> > pre-Surya Sidhanta

> > > era were related to seasons, as they should

> > actually be, and lunar

> > > (synodic)months are subservient to solar months,

> > there is no

> > > festival that can be separated from seasons, as

> > such!

> > >

> > > <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > which is ancient

> > > and scietific system.>

> > >

> > > Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no

> > such malady as

> > > ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so

> > much so that none

> > > of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa,

> > has even talked

> > > about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc

> > " Vedic

> > astrologers "

> > > would still not be groping in darkness as to which

> > Ayanamsha

> > > is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue

> > amongh themselves,

> > > then they can submit it to scientists and

> > astronomers for a peer

> > > review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to

> > resolve the

> > > ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when

> > the sky falls " .

> > > As the sky is not going to fall at least for a

> > million years, so

> > you

> > > can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going

> > to be resolved

> > for

> > > another million years either---since it is

> > actually " niradhar " --

> > > i.e. baseless.

> > >

> > > <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

> > >

> > > I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times:

> > " you have to

> > > choose either of the two i.e. either calendar

> > reform or 'Vedic

> > > astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the

> > so called

> > > nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what

> > they want to do --

> >

> > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > or proceed on the

> > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > " jyotishis " to make --

> >

> > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > > With regards,

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > > Since the so called

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " prafulla

> > Vaman Mendki "

> > > <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Avtarji

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > > > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must

> > seperate out those

> > > > festivals which depend on seasons only. They

> > should be treated

> > > > seperately.

> > > > Also more information about festivals from

> > ancient times is

> > > > needed for people to think.

> > > > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > which is ancient

> > > > and scietific system.

> > > > Prafulla

> > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > Krishen Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > , " Avtar

> > Krishen

> > > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up

> > to the mark. The

> > > > only

> > > > > problem arises about the months! For example,

> > when we say

> > > Bhagwan

> > > > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for

> > Northern India)

> > Krishna

> > > > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does

> > Shravana (Bhadra)

> > > > Krishna

> > > > > Paksha start!

> > > > >

> > > > > There are quite a few documents from me in

> > this forum about

> > such

> > > > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b

> > and BVB6. Pl.

> > > > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself

> > as to how we are

> > > > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely

> > different month

> > > > from

> > > > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata

> > 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > > > Raghunathan

> > > > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all

> > scorchers, who from

> > > his

> > > > > central place warms with his heat and lights

> > up with his rays

> > > the

> > > > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at

> > the appointed

> > > time

> > > > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds

> > characteristic

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern

> > declination), the

> > > > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the

> > Vaishuvata

> > > (equinox);

> > > > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to

> > the nights, as he

> > > > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal

> > divisions in

> > > > > succession. Days and nights are equal during

> > his transit

> > > through

> > > > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the

> > five signs, Taurus

> > > and

> > > > > the following, the days grow longer, while

> > every month the

> > > nights

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shri C. S. Bejoyji,

Namaskar!

We are clebrating all the festivals---not only seasonal festivals!---

on wrong days, thanks to the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha,

which was cosidered to be a divine work by unsuspecting Hindus!

 

The way things are going on, a time will come when we will celebrate

Lahiri Magha in the month of Vedic Ashadha! In other words,

Kalpavasa, supposed to be a form of Tapasya in the Winter, will be

observed in the Summer!

 

We are already celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day of actual

Dipavali these days! A time will come, thanks to " almighty " Lahiri

and company, when we will be asked to celebrate it in March or even

in April!

 

There is enough of material on this topic in files section of this

forum like 1999b, BVB6, Rashi5, Patriziaji etc. etc. If you have

the patience and time, pl. go through them.

 

For your information, I must put on record that zodiac is just one---

which is neither tropical nor sidereal! For measuring the

longitudes of planets or even Stars etc., all the observatories the

world over take the Vernal Equinox as the starting point. However,

Indian " astronomers (sic!) " consider some other starting point which

has remained shrouded in mystery ever since the date of advent of

Maya the mlechha into India. It is not likely to " reveal its

identity " over the next million years at least! For example,

no " Vedic " or even " Pauranic " so called nirayana astrologer knows

whether the zodiac starts from Ashivni Star or Muladhara or Revati

or SVP etc. etc. All of them ar groping in darkenss and will

continue to do so at lest till Kaliyuga lasts! And even Kaliyuga

itself does not know when it started or when it will end!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

, Bejoy

<bejoy_cs wrote:

>

>

> Hi AKK & all in the group,

>

> The difference between the day on which our festivals

> are celebrated and the right date on which it ought to

> be celebrated as I understand is 23 days.

>

> Has the 23.4 degree axial tilt of the earth with

> respect to the Sun got to do anything with this ?

>

> Could anyone throw light ?

>

> Needless to say, it doesnt appear to be a 23-23

> coincidence. The earth takes 1 day to cover 1 degree

> in orbit. So eventhough March 21 marks Vernal Equinox

> when the earth comes inline with the Sun but it takes

> 23 days more .. i.e 14th April ( celebrated as Vishu

> in states like Kerala ) for its axis to align itself

> with the Sun.

>

> Sorry .. am just a beginner in this area and my

> inference might sound too naive. But I would

> appreciate if you could provide some insights for me.

>

> Regards

>

> Bejoy C.S.

>

--- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

>

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > ==>

> > > It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to

> > do --

> > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > or proceed on the

> > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > " jyotishis " to make --

> > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > <==

> > Do you know a cute fact? Go to:

> > /

> > Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an

> > astrology group.

> > And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your

> > group, comes second

> > in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

> > And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click

> > search. Do you

> > see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not

> > there..lol.. )

> > As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click

> > search. There is not

> > even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

> > Conclusion: Your group is more popular for

> > astrology than for

> > Calendar reform! All the best!

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ,

> > " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <You must seperate out those festivals which

> > depend on seasons

> > > only. They should be treated seperately.>

> > >

> > > Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in

> > pre-Surya Sidhanta

> > > era were related to seasons, as they should

> > actually be, and lunar

> > > (synodic)months are subservient to solar months,

> > there is no

> > > festival that can be separated from seasons, as

> > such!

> > >

> > > <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > which is ancient

> > > and scietific system.>

> > >

> > > Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no

> > such malady as

> > > ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so

> > much so that none

> > > of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa,

> > has even talked

> > > about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc

> > " Vedic

> > astrologers "

> > > would still not be groping in darkness as to which

> > Ayanamsha

> > > is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue

> > amongh themselves,

> > > then they can submit it to scientists and

> > astronomers for a peer

> > > review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to

> > resolve the

> > > ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when

> > the sky falls " .

> > > As the sky is not going to fall at least for a

> > million years, so

> > you

> > > can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going

> > to be resolved

> > for

> > > another million years either---since it is

> > actually " niradhar " --

> > > i.e. baseless.

> > >

> > > <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

> > >

> > > I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times:

> > " you have to

> > > choose either of the two i.e. either calendar

> > reform or 'Vedic

> > > astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the

> > so called

> > > nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what

> > they want to do --

> >

> > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > or proceed on the

> > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > " jyotishis " to make --

> >

> > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > > With regards,

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > > Since the so called

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar , " prafulla

> > Vaman Mendki "

> > > <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Avtarji

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > > > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must

> > seperate out those

> > > > festivals which depend on seasons only. They

> > should be treated

> > > > seperately.

> > > > Also more information about festivals from

> > ancient times is

> > > > needed for people to think.

> > > > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > which is ancient

> > > > and scietific system.

> > > > Prafulla

> > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > Krishen Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > , " Avtar

> > Krishen

> > > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up

> > to the mark. The

> > > > only

> > > > > problem arises about the months! For example,

> > when we say

> > > Bhagwan

> > > > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for

> > Northern India)

> > Krishna

> > > > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does

> > Shravana (Bhadra)

> > > > Krishna

> > > > > Paksha start!

> > > > >

> > > > > There are quite a few documents from me in

> > this forum about

> > such

> > > > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b

> > and BVB6. Pl.

> > > > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself

> > as to how we are

> > > > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely

> > different month

> > > > from

> > > > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata

> > 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > > > Raghunathan

> > > > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all

> > scorchers, who from

> > > his

> > > > > central place warms with his heat and lights

> > up with his rays

> > > the

> > > > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at

> > the appointed

> > > time

> > > > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds

> > characteristic

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern

> > declination), the

> > > > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the

> > Vaishuvata

> > > (equinox);

> > > > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to

> > the nights, as he

> > > > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal

> > divisions in

> > > > > succession. Days and nights are equal during

> > his transit

> > > through

> > > > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the

> > five signs, Taurus

> > > and

> > > > > the following, the days grow longer, while

> > every month the

> > > nights

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Kaul,

 

>>...For example, no " Vedic " or even " Pauranic " so called nirayana

astrologer knows whether the zodiac starts from Ashivni Star or

Muladhara or Revati or SVP etc. etc. All of them ar groping in

darkenss and will continue to do so at lest till Kaliyuga lasts!...<<

 

 

Big claims, no doubt, but I am still looking forward to your responds

to my latest message to you, which was message no. 3914 ;-)

 

Very friendly,

Finn Wandahl

 

 

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri C. S. Bejoyji,

> Namaskar!

> We are clebrating all the festivals---not only seasonal festivals!---

> on wrong days, thanks to the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha,

> which was cosidered to be a divine work by unsuspecting Hindus!

>

> The way things are going on, a time will come when we will celebrate

> Lahiri Magha in the month of Vedic Ashadha! In other words,

> Kalpavasa, supposed to be a form of Tapasya in the Winter, will be

> observed in the Summer!

>

> We are already celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day of actual

> Dipavali these days! A time will come, thanks to " almighty " Lahiri

> and company, when we will be asked to celebrate it in March or even

> in April!

>

> There is enough of material on this topic in files section of this

> forum like 1999b, BVB6, Rashi5, Patriziaji etc. etc. If you have

> the patience and time, pl. go through them.

>

> For your information, I must put on record that zodiac is just one---

> which is neither tropical nor sidereal! For measuring the

> longitudes of planets or even Stars etc., all the observatories the

> world over take the Vernal Equinox as the starting point. However,

> Indian " astronomers (sic!) " consider some other starting point which

> has remained shrouded in mystery ever since the date of advent of

> Maya the mlechha into India. It is not likely to " reveal its

> identity " over the next million years at least! For example,

> no " Vedic " or even " Pauranic " so called nirayana astrologer knows

> whether the zodiac starts from Ashivni Star or Muladhara or Revati

> or SVP etc. etc. All of them ar groping in darkenss and will

> continue to do so at lest till Kaliyuga lasts! And even Kaliyuga

> itself does not know when it started or when it will end!

> With regards,

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

> , Bejoy

> <bejoy_cs@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi AKK & all in the group,

> >

> > The difference between the day on which our festivals

> > are celebrated and the right date on which it ought to

> > be celebrated as I understand is 23 days.

> >

> > Has the 23.4 degree axial tilt of the earth with

> > respect to the Sun got to do anything with this ?

> >

> > Could anyone throw light ?

> >

> > Needless to say, it doesnt appear to be a 23-23

> > coincidence. The earth takes 1 day to cover 1 degree

> > in orbit. So eventhough March 21 marks Vernal Equinox

> > when the earth comes inline with the Sun but it takes

> > 23 days more .. i.e 14th April ( celebrated as Vishu

> > in states like Kerala ) for its axis to align itself

> > with the Sun.

> >

> > Sorry .. am just a beginner in this area and my

> > inference might sound too naive. But I would

> > appreciate if you could provide some insights for me.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Bejoy C.S.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Kaul ji,

> > > ==>

> > > > It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what they want to

> > > do --

> > > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > > or proceed on the

> > > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > > " jyotishis " to make --

> > > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > > <==

> > > Do you know a cute fact? Go to:

> > > /

> > > Type " Jyotisha " in the search box to search for an

> > > astrology group.

> > > And you see, what will be the result?? ) Your

> > > group, comes second

> > > in the list! And not some astrology group...lol...

> > > And now put " Calendar " in the search box and click

> > > search. Do you

> > > see your group's name anywhere? NO! It is not

> > > there..lol.. )

> > > As a last try put " Calendar reform " and click

> > > search. There is not

> > > even a single group to be listed!! How is that?!!

> > > Conclusion: Your group is more popular for

> > > astrology than for

> > > Calendar reform! All the best!

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > ,

> > > " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > > Krishen Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Prafulla Vaman Mendki ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <You must seperate out those festivals which

> > > depend on seasons

> > > > only. They should be treated seperately.>

> > > >

> > > > Since solar months like Madhu, Madhava etc. in

> > > pre-Surya Sidhanta

> > > > era were related to seasons, as they should

> > > actually be, and lunar

> > > > (synodic)months are subservient to solar months,

> > > there is no

> > > > festival that can be separated from seasons, as

> > > such!

> > > >

> > > > <There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > > which is ancient

> > > > and scietific system.>

> > > >

> > > > Nirayana is actually " niradhar " since there is no

> > > such malady as

> > > > ayanamsha in any of the Vedas or Puranas etc. so

> > > much so that none

> > > > of the sidhantas, prior to Munjala's Laghumanasa,

> > > has even talked

> > > > about it. Besides, had it been really scientifc

> > > " Vedic

> > > astrologers "

> > > > would still not be groping in darkness as to which

> > > Ayanamsha

> > > > is " scientific " . Once they resolve that issue

> > > amongh themselves,

> > > > then they can submit it to scientists and

> > > astronomers for a peer

> > > > review. But " Vedic astrologers " will be able to

> > > resolve the

> > > > ayanamsha issue just like " we may catch larks when

> > > the sky falls " .

> > > > As the sky is not going to fall at least for a

> > > million years, so

> > > you

> > > > can rest asured that Ayanamsha issue is not going

> > > to be resolved

> > > for

> > > > another million years either---since it is

> > > actually " niradhar " --

> > > > i.e. baseless.

> > > >

> > > > <This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.>

> > > >

> > > > I have made it absolutely clear a thousand times:

> > > " you have to

> > > > choose either of the two i.e. either calendar

> > > reform or 'Vedic

> > > > astrology' -- whether the so called sayana or the

> > > so called

> > > > nirayana " . It is for " jyotishsis " to decide what

> > > they want to do --

> > >

> > > > continue to wallow in the so called jyotisha mud

> > > or proceed on the

> > > > path of calendar reform. The choice is for

> > > " jyotishis " to make --

> > >

> > > > not for the calendar reformers/reformists.

> > > > With regards,

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Since the so called

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar , " prafulla

> > > Vaman Mendki "

> > > > <prafulla_mendki@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Avtarji

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > This forum is becoming astrology forum.

> > > > > I think Hindu Calendar is a scientific subject.

> > > > > Also not all festivals are wrong.You must

> > > seperate out those

> > > > > festivals which depend on seasons only. They

> > > should be treated

> > > > > seperately.

> > > > > Also more information about festivals from

> > > ancient times is

> > > > > needed for people to think.

> > > > > There is no point in blaming Nirayana calnedar

> > > which is ancient

> > > > > and scietific system.

> > > > > Prafulla

> > > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar

> > > Krishen Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > > , " Avtar

> > > Krishen

> > > > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shri Venkataraman Hari ji,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > Your analysis of Hindu festivals is quite up

> > > to the mark. The

> > > > > only

> > > > > > problem arises about the months! For example,

> > > when we say

> > > > Bhagwan

> > > > > > Krishna was born in Shravana (Bhadra for

> > > Northern India)

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > Ashtami, the only point is as to when does

> > > Shravana (Bhadra)

> > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > Paksha start!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are quite a few documents from me in

> > > this forum about

> > > such

> > > > > > topics and the most useful ones would be 1999b

> > > and BVB6. Pl.

> > > > > > peruse them and you will realize for yourself

> > > as to how we are

> > > > > > celebrating Krishna Janmashtami in an entirely

> > > different month

> > > > > from

> > > > > > the actual Shravana/Bhadra Krishna ashtami!

> > > > > > Let me quote the translation of Bhagvata

> > > 5/XXI/1-6 by N.

> > > > > Raghunathan

> > > > > > (Vignaswara Publishing House, Chennai)

> > > > > > " ...The all-powerful sun, foremost of all

> > > scorchers, who from

> > > > his

> > > > > > central place warms with his heat and lights

> > > up with his rays

> > > > the

> > > > > > three worlds, goes up and down (the zodiac) at

> > > the appointed

> > > > time

> > > > > > with the accelerated, retarded and even speeds

> > > characteristic

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > different seasons, the Uttarayana (northern

> > > declination), the

> > > > > > Dakshinayana (southern declination) and the

> > > Vaishuvata

> > > > (equinox);

> > > > > > making the days longer, shoter, or equal to

> > > the nights, as he

> > > > > > transits through Makara and the other zodiacal

> > > divisions in

> > > > > > succession. Days and nights are equal during

> > > his transit

> > > > through

> > > > > > Aries and Libra; when he moves through the

> > > five signs, Taurus

> > > > and

> > > > > > the following, the days grow longer, while

> > > every month the

> > > > nights

> > >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>