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Dear sreenadh ji, i came across some mails that refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who rdited ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy ravana. can you please explain my doubt ? if it is so and then dravidian

cultures contribution to the epics are being literally forsaken? regards, KUMAR.

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

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Dear sir,

 

Even as this forum may not be the right place to ask this question. I am glad someone has asked this question

 

You can repost this question in my group on ancient indian history www.

 

(you will have to join the group before posting the same)

 

 

I would be happy to answer your question there in detail.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

On 10/16/07, hit man <hit_man334 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear sreenadh ji,

i came across some mails that refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who rdited ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy ravana.

 

can you please explain my doubt ? if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics are being literally forsaken?

 

regards,

KUMAR.

 

 

Be a better Globetrotter.

Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

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Dear Kumar ji,

You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape brother

of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by Ramayana

as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by Sunga

Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country (Eastern

cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -

i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd century

AD.

==>

can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the

apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

<==

No - because first of all there was no such war happened around 2nd

century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient story

in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with the

help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded that, in

2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime wife

of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical horse

(which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies of

the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same is

put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give children

and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the mother of

Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so

on.

If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place

in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are trying to

shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to

destroy ravana " could be right.

==>

if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics are

being literally forsaken?

<==

Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to BC

3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to BC 2nd

century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used Brahmi

or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian culture

never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but dates

back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South India

and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

* The ancient original Dravidian culture

* The Jain religion and culture

* The Buddist religion and culture

* The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

migrated to south india from Gujarat.

* The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south india.

There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a mixed

culture - the original roots going back to gods such

as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The concept

about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a flat

surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in the

sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A unique

island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone, The

snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the ancient

original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of contributions

of cultural streams mentioned above.

Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

turbulence does not wait for anything and the change continues....

Many things gets forgotten many things not much important...change

and life continues...

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, hit man

<hit_man334 wrote:

>

> Dear sreenadh ji,

> i came across some mails that

refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who rdited

ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

ravana.

> can you please explain my doubt ?

if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics are

being literally forsaken?

>

>

> regards,

> KUMAR.

>

>

>

> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

who knows.

> Answers - Check it out.

>

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Share on other sites

dear friends

 

this is an interesting debate where we can throw more light based on

facts and not views.

 

the tryst with destiny by king (lord) rama from ayodhya in the north

to rameswaram in the south is in the same breadth as the adi

sanakara's journey from kerala to badrinath in himalayas.

 

the entire bharat (india) is equally holy and no part is inferior or

superior. it is a consistent fact over decades that the northern

states like UP, MP and Bihar continue to suffer from illiteracy and

uneducation while the southern states continue to boast of having

more than 90% of total private engineering and medical colleges in

the country. the theory of aryans as superior to dravidians holds no

water in any parameter.

 

let me make it clear that i treat all indians alike and expect all

sane people to treat so.

 

in my two decades of experience in the north, what i found was that

what is most known to all is ramcharit manas and not ramayan. the

author of ramcharit manas was helping hindus unite against the

invading muslims and during his days thousands of hanuman temples

were built where men were taught wrestling etc. slowly ramcharit

manas recital has become a daily practice and it united all hindus

against invading muslims akin to vandemataram united all indians

against british rule.

 

in my last mail i was lamenting that the present government has

accepted both the last invaders (british as well as moghuls) as

history and brushed aside the earlier RULERS as mythology. these

invaders did not invade an empty land but usurped a rich kingdom.

 

even though shivapurana and other holy scriptures mention lord

subrahmanya as the son of shiva, most north indians believe only

ganesha as the son of lord shiva. even today in the north most

photos of shiva, parvati and ganesha are sold and worshipped whereas

in the south shiva,parvati, ganesha and subrahmanya are worshipped.

i dont expect the modern historians to brand lord subrahmanya as a

dravidian.

 

ravana is seen as an evil and some northern people enjoy and

celebrate the burning of ravana. in reality ravana is the son of

visrasrava who is the son of pulastya who is the son of brahma.

ravana wrote a samhita which explains astrology and medicine. ravana

is NOT a rakshasa as is made out by the modern historians.

 

these practices apart, i preach and practice that one shall respect

all indians alike without dividing india into two, based on cultures.

 

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy.com

 

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kumar ji,

> You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

> India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape

brother

> of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by Ramayana

> as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by

Sunga

> Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country (Eastern

> cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -

> i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd

century

> AD.

> ==>

> can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the

> apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

> <==

> No - because first of all there was no such war happened around

2nd

> century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient story

> in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with the

> help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded that,

in

> 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

> rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

> Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

> without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime

wife

> of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical

horse

> (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies

of

> the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same

is

> put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give

children

> and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the mother

of

> Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so

> on.

> If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place

> in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are trying

to

> shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to

> destroy ravana " could be right.

> ==>

> if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics

are

> being literally forsaken?

> <==

> Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to BC

> 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to BC

2nd

> century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used Brahmi

> or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian culture

> never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but dates

> back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South

India

> and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

> * The ancient original Dravidian culture

> * The Jain religion and culture

> * The Buddist religion and culture

> * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

> migrated to south india from Gujarat.

> * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south

india.

> There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

> ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a mixed

> culture - the original roots going back to gods such

> as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

> already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The concept

> about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a flat

> surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in the

> sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A unique

> island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone,

The

> snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

> importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the

ancient

> original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

> considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of contributions

> of cultural streams mentioned above.

> Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

> turbulence does not wait for anything and the change continues....

> Many things gets forgotten many things not much important...change

> and life continues...

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , hit man

> <hit_man334@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear sreenadh ji,

> > i came across some mails that

> refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

> eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

> their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who

rdited

> ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

> hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

> with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

> contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

> ravana.

> > can you please explain my

doubt ?

> if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics

are

> being literally forsaken?

> >

> >

> > regards,

> > KUMAR.

> >

> >

> >

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> who knows.

> > Answers - Check it out.

> >

>

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Dear Arjun ji,

I agree with you - all indians are equal (psychologically) - or

rather all the people in the world are equal and similar in the above

sense.

We are not against anything - but just discussing the subjects

based on facts as revealed by references. I will try uploading some

references with original quotes from Ramayana in coming days.

==>

> even though shivapurana and other holy scriptures mention lord

> subrahmanya as the son of shiva

<==

Dear Arjun ji, things are not that simple always. Do you know that

Subrahmanya, Kartikeya and Muruka are different deities (which merged

in to one in todays view) worshiped by different people in different

periods of time? The same is true for Ganapati and Pillar. The same

is true for Ayyappa and Sasta - the same is true for many others.

Even when the names are same there could be differences - for

example the Tantric Siva and Puranic Siva are entirely different

concepts worshiped by different people; The Rudra of vedas is yet

different. If we want to see all of them as one - it is good - as far

as spirituality is concerned, but not in a search of history.

If we look at the indian culture it is easily noticeable that the

vedic culture merged into the original tantric culture that was

present throughout india. For example

* Tanta promotes temples - but vedic culture does not.

Later day vedic culture even started supporting temple worship, and

created their own new gods - especially vishnava deities. But look at

the number of temples in India - which are most in number? You will

see many -

* Siva temples

* Chandika (Kali or Bhagavati) temples

* Snake worship

* Hanuman temples

But you will note that temples for Rama, Krishna, Vishnu etc are

comparatively few. But what is astonishing the rare number of temples

found for the true Vedic gods - Indra, Mirtra, Varuna and so on.

Temples for Vedic deities are rare - almost to the point of nil!

Yah, that is history - but considering spirituality - we can say

that all gods are one - or that only divinity exists - that is

spirituality. Both are good in their own context.

It is not something about Ram or Ravana or something about religion.

But rather we are just simply checking the background of a literary

text (like any other text), presenting our observations, and

discussing the subject of astrology contained in it.

It is just an impartial, passive discussion of a mere simple text

written by some one at some period of time. I will request the

readers of my post not to take things personally, or religiously. And

what ever I say it is simply just my views - and I have all rights to

hold my views. I am compelling none to follow the same - but simply

presenting my views - on Astrology contained in Ramayana. Some

related views may come - if you like it accept it, if not reject it.

That is all to it.

If someone (of course not you!) wants to go for name calling and so

on... hell with him! He simply does not know - what and which and

where he is responding - or in other words he is simply lacking the

context.

==>

> ravana is the son of visrasrava who is the son of pulastya who is

> the son of brahma. ravana wrote a samhita which explains astrology

> and medicine. ravana is NOT a rakshasa as is made out by the

> modern historians.

<==

Who ever Ravana be (whether he existed or not - I am not bothered)-

I know that -

* Many beautiful Slokas & poems that worship Siva is available whose

authorship is attributed to Ravana.

* There is a book called Ravana Samhita that deals with astrology

and medicine

* Several techniques and details in palmistry is attributed to Ravana

* Several tunes in classical music is attributed to Ravana

Of course I am interested in all these bits of available knowledge,

but not in stupid fights saying 'I am in the side of Ravana' or

that 'I am in the side of Rama'. That is stupid - Rama is good in his

own place and Ravana in his - i.e. as mere characters in a literary

work. Three is no point in trying mix actual history with imaginative

stories - what we should be interested in is the actual knowledge

(whether of astrology, architecture, medicine or what ever it is)

present in those books.

 

==>

> i preach and practice that one shall respect all indians alike

> without dividing india into two, based on cultures.

<==

Dear Arjun ji, it is good to see you taking sudden defense.. :) But

of me I don't preach or practice any such thing, specially about

indians. :) The whole world is one and people are alike - all the

barriers created by religion, caste and national boundaries are

irrelevant. So the respect to indians is the same as respect to

american or african - it all just simply melts down to respect (or

better feeling one with) a fellow human being. :)

But when discussing things it is better to present and discuss

things in their own light. And then may be we may not need such

precautions or defenses - because their does not even arise a need to

say that we are partial or impartial.

Note: Thanks for the good mail. Mostly in the above mail, I was

speaking to the whole group, and not specifically to you – and so

this mail may contain many things that are not at all relevant to

your post. Pardon me for that.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " panditarjun2004 "

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear friends

>

> this is an interesting debate where we can throw more light based

on

> facts and not views.

>

> the tryst with destiny by king (lord) rama from ayodhya in the

north

> to rameswaram in the south is in the same breadth as the adi

> sanakara's journey from kerala to badrinath in himalayas.

>

> the entire bharat (india) is equally holy and no part is inferior

or

> superior. it is a consistent fact over decades that the northern

> states like UP, MP and Bihar continue to suffer from illiteracy and

> uneducation while the southern states continue to boast of having

> more than 90% of total private engineering and medical colleges in

> the country. the theory of aryans as superior to dravidians holds

no

> water in any parameter.

>

> let me make it clear that i treat all indians alike and expect all

> sane people to treat so.

>

> in my two decades of experience in the north, what i found was that

> what is most known to all is ramcharit manas and not ramayan. the

> author of ramcharit manas was helping hindus unite against the

> invading muslims and during his days thousands of hanuman temples

> were built where men were taught wrestling etc. slowly ramcharit

> manas recital has become a daily practice and it united all hindus

> against invading muslims akin to vandemataram united all indians

> against british rule.

>

> in my last mail i was lamenting that the present government has

> accepted both the last invaders (british as well as moghuls) as

> history and brushed aside the earlier RULERS as mythology. these

> invaders did not invade an empty land but usurped a rich kingdom.

>

> even though shivapurana and other holy scriptures mention lord

> subrahmanya as the son of shiva, most north indians believe only

> ganesha as the son of lord shiva. even today in the north most

> photos of shiva, parvati and ganesha are sold and worshipped

whereas

> in the south shiva,parvati, ganesha and subrahmanya are

worshipped.

> i dont expect the modern historians to brand lord subrahmanya as a

> dravidian.

>

> ravana is seen as an evil and some northern people enjoy and

> celebrate the burning of ravana. in reality ravana is the son of

> visrasrava who is the son of pulastya who is the son of brahma.

> ravana wrote a samhita which explains astrology and medicine.

ravana

> is NOT a rakshasa as is made out by the modern historians.

>

> these practices apart, i preach and practice that one shall respect

> all indians alike without dividing india into two, based on

cultures.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy.com

>

>

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kumar ji,

> > You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

> > India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape

> brother

> > of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by

Ramayana

> > as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by

> Sunga

> > Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country

(Eastern

> > cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -

 

> > i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd

> century

> > AD.

> > ==>

> > can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all

the

> > apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

> > <==

> > No - because first of all there was no such war happened around

> 2nd

> > century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient

story

> > in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with

the

> > help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded that,

> in

> > 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

> > rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

> > Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

> > without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> > brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> > culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime

> wife

> > of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical

> horse

> > (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies

> of

> > the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same

> is

> > put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give

> children

> > and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the

mother

> of

> > Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and

so

> > on.

> > If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> > caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took

place

> > in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are trying

> to

> > shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself

to

> > destroy ravana " could be right.

> > ==>

> > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics

> are

> > being literally forsaken?

> > <==

> > Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to

BC

> > 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to BC

> 2nd

> > century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used

Brahmi

> > or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian

culture

> > never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but

dates

> > back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South

> India

> > and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

> > * The ancient original Dravidian culture

> > * The Jain religion and culture

> > * The Buddist religion and culture

> > * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

> > migrated to south india from Gujarat.

> > * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south

> india.

> > There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

> > ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a

mixed

> > culture - the original roots going back to gods such

> > as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

> > already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The

concept

> > about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a

flat

> > surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in

the

> > sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A

unique

> > island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone,

> The

> > snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

> > importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the

> ancient

> > original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

> > considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of

contributions

> > of cultural streams mentioned above.

> > Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

> > turbulence does not wait for anything and the change

continues....

> > Many things gets forgotten many things not much

important...change

> > and life continues...

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , hit man

> > <hit_man334@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear sreenadh ji,

> > > i came across some mails

that

> > refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

> > eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

> > their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who

> rdited

> > ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

> > hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

> > with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

> > contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

> > ravana.

> > > can you please explain my

> doubt ?

> > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics

> are

> > being literally forsaken?

> > >

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > KUMAR.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from

someone

> > who knows.

> > > Answers - Check it out.

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Sreenadh, Is there a history of debates during these time periods you are talking about between the different schools and lineages of Vedic astrology? If so were any of these debates documented? I have read that at times in India that philosophical schools would have debates and that which ever school lost the debates would convert over to the winning schools philosophy. Was this true in Vedic culture too?Thanks for so much history lessons. Peace. Nickie ScottOn Oct 16, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Sreenadh wrote:Dear Arjun ji,I agree with you - all indians are equal (psychologically) - or rather all the people in the world are equal and similar in the above sense. We are not against anything - but just discussing the subjects based on facts as revealed by references. I will try uploading some references with original quotes from Ramayana in coming days.==>> even though shivapurana and other holy scriptures mention lord > subrahmanya as the son of shiva<==Dear Arjun ji, things are not that simple always. Do you know that Subrahmanya, Kartikeya and Muruka are different deities (which merged in to one in todays view) worshiped by different people in different periods of time? The same is true for Ganapati and Pillar. The same is true for Ayyappa and Sasta - the same is true for many others. Even when the names are same there could be differences - for example the Tantric Siva and Puranic Siva are entirely different concepts worshiped by different people; The Rudra of vedas is yet different. If we want to see all of them as one - it is good - as far as spirituality is concerned, but not in a search of history.If we look at the indian culture it is easily noticeable that the vedic culture merged into the original tantric culture that was present throughout india. For example * Tanta promotes temples - but vedic culture does not.Later day vedic culture even started supporting temple worship, and created their own new gods - especially vishnava deities. But look at the number of temples in India - which are most in number? You will see many -* Siva temples * Chandika (Kali or Bhagavati) temples* Snake worship * Hanuman temples But you will note that temples for Rama, Krishna, Vishnu etc are comparatively few. But what is astonishing the rare number of temples found for the true Vedic gods - Indra, Mirtra, Varuna and so on. Temples for Vedic deities are rare - almost to the point of nil!Yah, that is history - but considering spirituality - we can say that all gods are one - or that only divinity exists - that is spirituality. Both are good in their own context. It is not something about Ram or Ravana or something about religion. But rather we are just simply checking the background of a literary text (like any other text), presenting our observations, and discussing the subject of astrology contained in it. It is just an impartial, passive discussion of a mere simple text written by some one at some period of time. I will request the readers of my post not to take things personally, or religiously. And what ever I say it is simply just my views - and I have all rights to hold my views. I am compelling none to follow the same - but simply presenting my views - on Astrology contained in Ramayana. Some related views may come - if you like it accept it, if not reject it. That is all to it. If someone (of course not you!) wants to go for name calling and so on... hell with him! He simply does not know - what and which and where he is responding - or in other words he is simply lacking the context. ==>> ravana is the son of visrasrava who is the son of pulastya who is > the son of brahma. ravana wrote a samhita which explains astrology > and medicine. ravana is NOT a rakshasa as is made out by the > modern historians.<==Who ever Ravana be (whether he existed or not - I am not bothered)- I know that -* Many beautiful Slokas & poems that worship Siva is available whose authorship is attributed to Ravana.* There is a book called Ravana Samhita that deals with astrology and medicine* Several techniques and details in palmistry is attributed to Ravana* Several tunes in classical music is attributed to RavanaOf course I am interested in all these bits of available knowledge, but not in stupid fights saying 'I am in the side of Ravana' or that 'I am in the side of Rama'. That is stupid - Rama is good in his own place and Ravana in his - i.e. as mere characters in a literary work. Three is no point in trying mix actual history with imaginative stories - what we should be interested in is the actual knowledge (whether of astrology, architecture, medicine or what ever it is) present in those books. ==>> i preach and practice that one shall respect all indians alike > without dividing india into two, based on cultures.<== Dear Arjun ji, it is good to see you taking sudden defense.. :) But of me I don't preach or practice any such thing, specially about indians. :) The whole world is one and people are alike - all the barriers created by religion, caste and national boundaries are irrelevant. So the respect to indians is the same as respect to american or african - it all just simply melts down to respect (or better feeling one with) a fellow human being. :) But when discussing things it is better to present and discuss things in their own light. And then may be we may not need such precautions or defenses - because their does not even arise a need to say that we are partial or impartial. Note: Thanks for the good mail. Mostly in the above mail, I was speaking to the whole group, and not specifically to you – and so this mail may contain many things that are not at all relevant to your post. Pardon me for that. Love,Sreenadh--- In  , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote:>> dear friends> > this is an interesting debate where we can throw more light based on > facts and not views.> > the tryst with destiny by king (lord) rama from ayodhya in the north > to rameswaram in the south is in the same breadth as the adi > sanakara's journey from kerala to badrinath in himalayas.> > the entire bharat (india) is equally holy and no part is inferior or > superior. it is a consistent fact over decades that the northern > states like UP, MP and Bihar continue to suffer from illiteracy and > uneducation while the southern states continue to boast of having > more than 90% of total private engineering and medical colleges in > the country. the theory of aryans as superior to dravidians holds no > water in any parameter.> > let me make it clear that i treat all indians alike and expect all > sane people to treat so.> > in my two decades of experience in the north, what i found was that > what is most known to all is ramcharit manas and not ramayan. the > author of ramcharit manas was helping hindus unite against the > invading muslims and during his days thousands of hanuman temples > were built where men were taught wrestling etc. slowly ramcharit > manas recital has become a daily practice and it united all hindus > against invading muslims akin to vandemataram united all indians > against british rule.> > in my last mail i was lamenting that the present government has > accepted both the last invaders (british as well as moghuls) as > history and brushed aside the earlier RULERS as mythology. these > invaders did not invade an empty land but usurped a rich kingdom.> > even though shivapurana and other holy scriptures mention lord > subrahmanya as the son of shiva, most north indians believe only > ganesha as the son of lord shiva. even today in the north most > photos of shiva, parvati and ganesha are sold and worshipped whereas > in the south shiva,parvati, ganesha and subrahmanya are worshipped. > i dont expect the modern historians to brand lord subrahmanya as a > dravidian.> > ravana is seen as an evil and some northern people enjoy and > celebrate the burning of ravana. in reality ravana is the son of > visrasrava who is the son of pulastya who is the son of brahma. > ravana wrote a samhita which explains astrology and medicine. ravana > is NOT a rakshasa as is made out by the modern historians.> > these practices apart, i preach and practice that one shall respect > all indians alike without dividing india into two, based on cultures.> > with best wishes and blessings> pandit arjun> www.rudraksharemedy.com> > > > --- In  , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Kumar ji,> > You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of > > India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape > brother > > of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by Ramayana > > as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by > Sunga > > Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country (Eastern > > cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -> > i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd > century > > AD.> > ==>> > can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the > > apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians. > > <==> > No - because first of all there was no such war happened around > 2nd > > century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient story > > in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with the > > help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded that, > in > > 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and > > rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as > > Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people > > without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste > > brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their > > culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime > wife > > of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical > horse > > (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies > of > > the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same > is > > put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give > children > > and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the mother > of > > Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so > > on. > > If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic > > caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place > > in the post, then your conclusion such as "may be they are trying > to > > shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to > > destroy ravana" could be right.> > ==>> > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics > are > > being literally forsaken?> > <==> > Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to BC > > 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to BC > 2nd > > century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used Brahmi > > or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian culture > > never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but dates > > back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South > India > > and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -> > * The ancient original Dravidian culture > > * The Jain religion and culture> > * The Buddist religion and culture > > * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who > > migrated to south india from Gujarat.> > * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south > india.> > There could be many other contributing factors as well - both > > ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a mixed > > culture - the original roots going back to gods such > > as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost > > already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The concept > > about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a flat > > surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in the > > sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A unique > > island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone, > The > > snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique > > importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the > ancient > > original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days > > considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of contributions > > of cultural streams mentioned above. > > Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and > > turbulence does not wait for anything and the change continues.... > > Many things gets forgotten many things not much important...change > > and life continues... > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- In  , hit man > > <hit_man334@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear sreenadh ji,> > > i came across some mails that > > refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the > > eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in > > their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who > rdited > > ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that > > hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along > > with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the > > contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy > > ravana.> > > can you please explain my > doubt ? > > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics > are > > being literally forsaken?> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > KUMAR. > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone > > who knows.> > > Answers - Check it out.> > >> >>

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Dear Sreenadhji,

It was fascinating to listen that strange rituals were being practised

those times. I am curious to know if there are passages that mention

things that you attributed to Rama's mother.

I found this online version of valmiki ramayana.

 

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm

 

 

Best Rgds

Shiv

 

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kumar ji,

> You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

> India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape brother

> of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by Ramayana

> as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by Sunga

> Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country (Eastern

> cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -

> i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd century

> AD.

> ==>

> can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the

> apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

> <==

> No - because first of all there was no such war happened around 2nd

> century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient story

> in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with the

> help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded that, in

> 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

> rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

> Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

> without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime wife

> of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical horse

> (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies of

> the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same is

> put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give children

> and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the mother of

> Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so

> on.

> If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place

> in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are trying to

> shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to

> destroy ravana " could be right.

> ==>

> if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics are

> being literally forsaken?

> <==

> Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to BC

> 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to BC 2nd

> century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used Brahmi

> or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian culture

> never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but dates

> back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South India

> and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

> * The ancient original Dravidian culture

> * The Jain religion and culture

> * The Buddist religion and culture

> * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

> migrated to south india from Gujarat.

> * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south india.

> There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

> ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a mixed

> culture - the original roots going back to gods such

> as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

> already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The concept

> about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a flat

> surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in the

> sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A unique

> island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone, The

> snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

> importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the ancient

> original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

> considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of contributions

> of cultural streams mentioned above.

> Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

> turbulence does not wait for anything and the change continues....

> Many things gets forgotten many things not much important...change

> and life continues...

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , hit man

> <hit_man334@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear sreenadh ji,

> > i came across some mails that

> refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

> eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

> their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who rdited

> ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

> hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

> with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

> contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

> ravana.

> > can you please explain my doubt ?

> if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the epics are

> being literally forsaken?

> >

> >

> > regards,

> > KUMAR.

> >

> >

> >

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> who knows.

> > Answers - Check it out.

> >

>

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Dear Sreenadh,

 

 

Quote ====>

> without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime wife

> of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical horse

> (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the testacies of

> the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the same is

> put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give children

> and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the mother of

> Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so

> on.

> If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place

> in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are trying to

> shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to

> destroy ravana " could be right.

<========

 

I went through Valmiki Ramayana given in the

site.http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga14/bala_14_frame.htm. The

context you are referring to, If I am not mistaken, is 1-14-34 to

1-14-40. From this what I could make out was that.

 

1. " Queen Kausalya desiring the results of ritual disconcertedly

resided one night with that horse that flew away like a bird.

[1-14-34] " and it was a dead horse!. Please refer to Sloka 1-14-33

" With great delight coming on her Queen Kausalya reverently made

circumambulations to the horse, and symbolically killed the horse with

three knives. [1-14-33] " . In Yaaga the Brahmans doesn't kill the

sacrificial animal, they simbolically perform the killing action and

rest is done by the attendaants.

 

2. And it was not Testicles which was cooked! It is called Vapaa.

Sloka 1-14-36 & 1-14-37. To know about Yaga, this site may be useful.

http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/yajnam.htm & to know about Vapa

http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/paswaalambhanam.htm.

 

Dear Sreenadh, May I know from where you got the above said quoted

information. I would like to keep myself updated.

 

I have heard Sloka 1-14-35 is also interpreted in a different way.

 

My opinion is leave those matters in the book itself and learn the

values prescribed by those fictional/real characters. In real life too

some characters gain larger than life image (e.g. Munnabhai) and it

even sits over the original actor who played the character. There are

many similar examples!

 

 

With warm regards,

Sarman

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Thanks for the message Sreenadhji. Looking forward to see the relevant

verses/ quotes from you.

 

Happy navaratris to all,

Shiv

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Shiv ji,

> Yes, there is - in Balakanda of Valmiki ramayana. I will prepare a

> document and quote it tomorrow. You check the section in Balakanda

> regarding the 'Aswamedha Yaga' conducted by Dasaradha as well, in the

> online version. You will find the quote.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Shiv "

> <theblisswithin@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadhji,

> > It was fascinating to listen that strange rituals were being practised

> > those times. I am curious to know if there are passages that mention

> > things that you attributed to Rama's mother.

> > I found this online version of valmiki ramayana.

> >

> > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm

> >

> >

> > Best Rgds

> > Shiv

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kumar ji,

> > > You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

> > > India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape

brother

> > > of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by Ramayana

> > > as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by

Sunga

> > > Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country (Eastern

> > > cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha & Jain) -

> > > i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd

century

> > > AD.

> > > ==>

> > > can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the

> > > apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

> > > <==

> > > No - because first of all there was no such war happened

around 2nd

> > > century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient story

> > > in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with the

> > > help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded

that, in

> > > 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

> > > rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

> > > Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

> > > without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> > > brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> > > culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime

wife

> > > of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical

horse

> > > (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the

testacies of

> > > the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the

same is

> > > put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give

children

> > > and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the

mother of

> > > Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal and so

> > > on.

> > > If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> > > caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took place

> > > in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are

trying to

> > > shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to

> > > destroy ravana " could be right.

> > > ==>

> > > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the

epics are

> > > being literally forsaken?

> > > <==

> > > Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back to BC

> > > 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to

BC 2nd

> > > century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used Brahmi

> > > or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian culture

> > > never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but dates

> > > back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South

India

> > > and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

> > > * The ancient original Dravidian culture

> > > * The Jain religion and culture

> > > * The Buddist religion and culture

> > > * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

> > > migrated to south india from Gujarat.

> > > * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south

india.

> > > There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

> > > ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a mixed

> > > culture - the original roots going back to gods such

> > > as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

> > > already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The concept

> > > about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a flat

> > > surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping in the

> > > sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A unique

> > > island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone,

The

> > > snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

> > > importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the

ancient

> > > original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

> > > considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of contributions

> > > of cultural streams mentioned above.

> > > Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

> > > turbulence does not wait for anything and the change continues....

> > > Many things gets forgotten many things not much important...change

> > > and life continues...

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , hit man

> > > <hit_man334@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear sreenadh ji,

> > > > i came across some mails that

> > > refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

> > > eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

> > > their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who

rdited

> > > ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

> > > hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

> > > with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

> > > contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

> > > ravana.

> > > > can you please explain my

doubt ?

> > > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the

epics are

> > > being literally forsaken?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > KUMAR.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> > > who knows.

> > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Shiv,

A pdf document prepared by me, discussing the birth and related

astrological chart details of Rama and brothers, you can find in the

following URL.

 

Sreenadh/Birth%20of\

%20Rama%20and%20brothers.pdf

 

This file named " Birth of Rama and brothers.pdf " is present inside

the folder named " Sreenadh " in the files section.

 

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Shiv "

<theblisswithin wrote:

>

> Thanks for the message Sreenadhji. Looking forward to see the relevant

> verses/ quotes from you.

>

> Happy navaratris to all,

> Shiv

>

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shiv ji,

> > Yes, there is - in Balakanda of Valmiki ramayana. I will prepare a

> > document and quote it tomorrow. You check the section in Balakanda

> > regarding the 'Aswamedha Yaga' conducted by Dasaradha as well, in the

> > online version. You will find the quote.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Shiv "

> > <theblisswithin@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sreenadhji,

> > > It was fascinating to listen that strange rituals were being

practised

> > > those times. I am curious to know if there are passages that mention

> > > things that you attributed to Rama's mother.

> > > I found this online version of valmiki ramayana.

> > >

> > > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm

> > >

> > >

> > > Best Rgds

> > > Shiv

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kumar ji,

> > > > You are right. The kings of Bangal and Orissa (Eastern cost of

> > > > India) believed that they are the decedents of Vali (The Ape

> brother

> > > > of Sugreeva as per Ramayana). The Dravidians are blamed by

Ramayana

> > > > as Apes. Thus in short Ramayana is a political text created by

> Sunga

> > > > Brahmanic kings to Disgrace the people outside his country

(Eastern

> > > > cost of India & South India) and other religions (Buddha &

Jain) -

> > > > i.e. It is a political text with a purpose created around 2nd

> century

> > > > AD.

> > > > ==>

> > > > can there be a conclusion that hanuman,vali and sukriv and all

the

> > > > apes warrior who fought along with rama as dravidians.

> > > > <==

> > > > No - because first of all there was no such war happened

> around 2nd

> > > > century AD. If the sunga brahmins were modifying some ancient

story

> > > > in which a North Indian king fought with a SriLankan king with

the

> > > > help of Dravidian people - then too, it should be concluded

> that, in

> > > > 2nd century the original text and story got totally corrupted and

> > > > rewritten - name calling those Dravidian and Eastern people as

> > > > Monkeyes and Buddha Thief - and Buddhists and Jainist as people

> > > > without morel who should be trotured. But note that the caste

> > > > brahmins and caste Kshetriya people who were boasting of their

> > > > culture were following stupid fertility rituals like - the prime

> wife

> > > > of King making sex with (doing intercourse with) the sacrifical

> horse

> > > > (which would be slayed later) in Aswamedha, cooking the

> testacies of

> > > > the horse and the queens inhaling the smoke from it when the

> same is

> > > > put in fire, due to the superstition that the same will give

> children

> > > > and so on. Valmiki Ramayana tells us that even Kausalya the

> mother of

> > > > Rama followed all these rituals such as sleeping with animal

and so

> > > > on.

> > > > If we think that the available ramana is a corrupted (by fanatic

> > > > caste brahmins) version of an ancient actual event which took

place

> > > > in the post, then your conclusion such as " may be they are

> trying to

> > > > shadow the contribution of dravidians to the great lord

himself to

> > > > destroy ravana " could be right.

> > > > ==>

> > > > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the

> epics are

> > > > being literally forsaken?

> > > > <==

> > > > Yes, you are right. The earliest Tamil writings dates back

to BC

> > > > 3rd century and the earliest Devenagari writings dates back to

> BC 2nd

> > > > century only. Of course Vedic culture (which might have used

Brahmi

> > > > or Proto-Brahmi) dates back to BC 3000 or so. The dravidian

culture

> > > > never grow to the heights of non-vedic Harappan culture, but

dates

> > > > back to at least 1st or 2nd millennium BC. The culture of South

> India

> > > > and Dravidians is actually a mix of several groups such as -

> > > > * The ancient original Dravidian culture

> > > > * The Jain religion and culture

> > > > * The Buddist religion and culture

> > > > * The cultural contributions of Naga worshipers (Ahi Kula) who

> > > > migrated to south india from Gujarat.

> > > > * The people with vedic beliefs and culture migrating to south

> india.

> > > > There could be many other contributing factors as well - both

> > > > ancient and medieval. South Indian or Dravidian culture is a

mixed

> > > > culture - the original roots going back to gods such

> > > > as 'Mayon', 'Ayyan', 'Ayiravilli', 'Pilleyar','Muruka' etc almost

> > > > already forgotten or redefined as per invading beliefs. The

concept

> > > > about universe as per the original dravidian culture was as a

flat

> > > > surface with 4 mountains at four sides and 'Vetala' sleeping

in the

> > > > sky above and snakes ruling the world below earth and sea. A

unique

> > > > island in the sea and a silver Deer (Velli man), A silver stone,

> The

> > > > snake stone in the island, the divine goddess are all of unique

> > > > importance. There is yet to happen a detailed research on the

> ancient

> > > > original Dravidian culture and its beliefs. What now a days

> > > > considered as Dravidian is NOT dravidian but a mix of

contributions

> > > > of cultural streams mentioned above.

> > > > Yes, many things gets forsaken in the flow of time; the time and

> > > > turbulence does not wait for anything and the change

continues....

> > > > Many things gets forgotten many things not much

important...change

> > > > and life continues...

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , hit man

> > > > <hit_man334@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear sreenadh ji,

> > > > > i came across some mails

that

> > > > refers to this brahminic kings who adressed the peoples of the

> > > > eastern coast and southern indian coast as monkeys or vanaras in

> > > > their texts, if that is so and these people were the ones who

> rdited

> > > > ramayana in the 2nd century AD , can there be a conclusion that

> > > > hanuman,vali and sukriv and all the apes warrior who fought along

> > > > with rama as dravidians. may be they are trying to shadow the

> > > > contribution of dravidians to the great lord himself to destroy

> > > > ravana.

> > > > > can you please explain my

> doubt ?

> > > > if it is so and then dravidian cultures contribution to the

> epics are

> > > > being literally forsaken?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > KUMAR.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from

someone

> > > > who knows.

> > > > > Answers - Check it out.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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