Fwd: astrological combinations in the Valmiki Ramayana

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

==>

2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in Mina,

Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two days) to

Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina and

that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of them

are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three months to

Bharata!

<==

Neither the available slokas, nor their meaning - supports your

argument. This is an exmple of intentional misinterpretation!! I agree

to the fact that the versed mentioning signs could be an

interpolation, but the meaning you provide for the well known slokas

are nothing but stupidity and charletinism of Tropical system - with

no sincerity in treating the subject at hand involved!! How can it

happen to you?! Please correct this - and let us go by correct and

exact meaning of the sloka.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

>

> Shri Kedarnath ji,

> Namaskar!

>

> You have said

> <Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology has been

> cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the Ramayana

> available to us.>

>

> You are right! Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of

> astrology (actually both astronomy and astrology!) has been cast on

> Valmiki! It is for you to find out as to who has done so!

>

> I am quoting the exact English translation, including the words in

> brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,(Balakandam)

> Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition, as they have not

> printed/published quite a few chapters/cantos in the last " Kanda "

> presuming that they were spurious! Obviously, it means that what

> they have published is without doubt from the original Ramanaya!

> Similarly, it cannot be said that they have made the translations in

> a haphazard manner since the translators were well equipped scholars

> of our shostras!

> Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Gita Press Ramayana (both

> with Hindi and English translations) have already been sold by them!

>

> I may also mention in the passing that the original Sanskrit verses

> of the Gita Press Ramayana more or less tally exactly with the one

> publihed by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, Varanasi, in their 1957

> edition! Thus it gets doubly confirmed that the Gita Press edition

> is quite an quthentic one:

>

> The relevant sholkas are:

> (Verses 8 to 11) " On the ninth lunar day (of the bright fortnight) of

> Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the sacrifices)

> when the asterism Punarvasu (presided over by Aditi) was in the

> ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz. the Sun, Mars, Saturn,

> Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the zodiacal

> signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or Libra, Karka

> or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in

> conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of Karka,

> mother Kausalya (the eldest wife of Dasharatha) gave birth to a

> highly blessed son named Sri Rama " .

> (Verse 13) " (Next) through (the womb of)Kaikeyi (the youngest wife

> of King Dasharatha) was born Bharatha, possessed of true valour, who

> actually represented a quarter of Lord Vishnu and was adorned with

> all (divine) virtues..

> (Verse 15) " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the constellation

> Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the zodiacal

> sing of Pisces; while the twin sons of Sumitra were born when the

> constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had reached

> the meridian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karka (Cancer)

> (Verse 21) " The king further performed the naming ceremony (with

> respect to his sons) on completing eleven days (after the birth of

> Lakshamana and Shatrugana or thirteen days after the advent of Shri

> Rama, which took place two days earlier)

>

> There are quite a few astronomically impossible commbinations in

> these sholkas and these are:

> 1. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and His Moon in Karka, it

> cannot be Shukla paksha Namvmi and also the Moon in Punarvasu

> simultaneously.

> 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in Mina,

> Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two days) to

> Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina and

> that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of them

> are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three months to

> Bharata!

>

> Personally, I would not ascribe such a non-sensensical and

> meaningless astrological or astronomical knowledge to Valmiki Rishi

> but it appears to be the doing of some " followers of Varahamihira

> the greatest charlatan " to introduce such interpolations in the

> Ramayana just to make a common man subservient to their designs by

> telling them that even Shri Rama was " governed " by predctive

> jyotishis! For that matter, only a few days back, in the Hindustan

> (Hindi edition), one of the jyoitishis had said that Shri Rama's

> existence couldnot be doubted since we have His horoscopes in

> several Jantris!

>

> It is thus obvious that as far as Valmiki Rishis himself was

> concerned, he never bothered about the planetary combinations of

> Bhagwan Rama etc. since there was no such fear psychosis then, as

> otherwise, if at all he had mentioned the horoscope or at least even

> the Janma nakshatra of Bhagwan Rama in the Ramayana himself, he

> woulde not have made such a mess!

>

> It all proves beyond all the reasonable (and even unreasonable!)

> doubts that there was no such malady like " Vedic astrology " in India

> at the time of Bhagwan Rama!

> With regards,

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

>

> vedic_research_institute , " prakruthipremi "

> <smartxpark@> wrote:

> >

> > namaste,

> >

> > Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology has been

> > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the Ramayana

> > available to us.

> >

> > One of the aspersion is the the birth star of Bharatha. It is a

> great

> > tribute to the people - Brahmins of India that have preserved this

> > much against possible conflicts with the knowledge they had. They

> did

> > not junk the greatest document of history of the greatest personage

> > we are blesssed to have Sri.Rama.

> >

> > As a result of this preservation without doctoring there is

> > possibility of more truths emanating.

> >

> > One very significant possibility for research:-

> >

> > Is the birth of Bharatha in the southern hemisphere? His mother was

> > Kaikeyi - Was she a Mayan princess? And did she go to her parent's

> > home for delivery?

> >

> > http://www.astroppo.com/historyastronomy.html

> >

> > The following web adresss is that of Valmiki Ramayana put up Sri

> Desi

> > Raju Hanumantha Rao - This site has 6,78,827 visits since October

> 11,

> > 1998.

> >

> > In this - there is thesis that Bharatha was born 12 months later

> > according to a German which is not mentioned in Valmiki Ramayana.

> >

> > Advances can be made only if the base logical premise is Valmiki

> will

> > not lie - He is talking about Sri Rama without an agenda except

> > abuydaya (prosperity) for the future.

> >

> >

> >

> > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga18/bala_18_frame.htm

> >

> >

> > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11

> >

> > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion;

> > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

> > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

> > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye=

> star

> > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu

> graheSu

> > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa

> > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with;

> pra

> > udyamane= when raising – ascending, advancing daytime – abhijit

> > lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord

> > [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya

> > lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH=

> Vishnu's;

> > artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly

> > blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of;

> > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta

> > oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> Rama

> > as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> >

> > On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by and then in

> > the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month [April-May,]

> > when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is Aditi, where

> > the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in the

> > ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun, Mars,

> > Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position, when

> > Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is

> advancing,

> > then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the divine

> > attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate lips, voice

> > like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku dynasty,

> > who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly blessed

> > epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]

> >

> > By this configuration of stars the supreme merits of Rama are

> > indicated. atra saÕvastara mukha utt˜yaõa vasanta caitra m˜sa þukla

> > pakÿa deva nakÿatra diva abhijit lagna puõya nakÿatr˜d utk®ÿ÷a k˜le

> > kark˜÷aka lagne uccasya graha pañcake guru candra yoge þrŸ r˜ma

> > utpatti× | tasya sarva utk®ÿ÷at˜m sakala kaly˜õa guõa abhiramat˜m

> > sakala þiÿ÷a ˜draõŸya sampattim mah˜ par˜kramam ca s¨citam |

> > dharmaakuutam.

> >

> > The words viSNoH artham half of Vishnu- are to be taken as half of

> > the fruit of ritual where Vedic ritual itself is pervaded by

> Vishnu.

> > The fruit of ritual is obtained in the shape of dessert, and

> Kausalya

> > consumed half of it, but it is not half of Vishnu as he is

> > illimitable.

> >

> > Verse Locator

> >

> > kausalyaa shushubhe tena putreNa amita tejasaa |

> > yathaa vareNa devaanaam aditiH vajra paaNinaa || 1-18-12

> >

> > 12. Kausalya; a+mita tejasaa= one with unlimited resplendence; tena

> > putreNa= by that, son; devaanaam vareNa= among gods, the best one;

> > vajra paaNinaa= by Thunderbolt, in hand [wielder - Indra]; adithiH

> > yathaa shushubhe= Lady Aditi, as with, shone forth.

> >

> > Kausalya shone forth with such a son whose resplendence is

> unlimited,

> > as with lady Aditi who once stood out with her son Indra, the best

> > one among gods. [1-18-12]

> >

> > Verse Locator

> >

> > bharato naama kaikeyyaam jaj~ne satya paraakramaH |

> > saakSaat viSNoH caturtha bhaagaH sarvaiH samudito guNaiH || 1-18-13

> >

> > 13. satya paraakramaH= truthfulness, as his valour; saakshaat

> viSNoH=

> > manifest, Vishnu's; chatur bhaagaH= fourth, component; sarvaiH

> guNaiH

> > samuditaH= with all, merits, embodied with ; Bharata; naama

> > kaikeyyaam jaj~ne= named, to Queen Kaikeyi, born to.

> >

> > Queen Kaikeyi gave birth to Bharata, one embodied with all merits,

> > and whose truthfulness itself is his valour and who is fourth

> > component of manifest Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-13]

> >

> > The fraction indicated here like 'one fourth of Vishnu' etc may be

> > reckoned as the share of the dessert consumed by the queens, but

> not

> > as a cleaved portion of Vishnu as he is an indivisible entity. Here

> > it is half of one-fourth i.e., one-eighth of dessert given to

> Kaikeyi.

> >

> > Verse Locator

> >

> > atha laxmaNa shatrughnau sumitraa ajanayat sutau |

> > viirau sarva astra kushalau viSNoH ardha samanvitau | 1-18-14

> >

> > 14. atha= then; Queen Sumitra; viiraau= valiant ones; sarva astra

> > kushalau= all, weaponry, experts; viSNoH= Vishnu's; artha= essence,

> > epitome; samanvitou= those that are embodied with; Lakshmana;

> > Shatrughna; sutou ajanayat= to sons, gave birth.

> >

> > Queen Sumitra then gave birth to two sons who are the embodied

> > epitomes of Vishnu, namely Lakshmana, and Shatrughna, who are

> valiant

> > ones and experts in all kinds of weaponry. [1-18-14]

> >

> > Verse Locator

> >

> > puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |

> > saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15

> >

> > 15. prasanna dhiiH= level, headed one – guileless, fair-minded;

> > Bharata; pushye miina lagne jaataH= under Pushyami star, in Pisces

> > [of Zodiac,] born; saumitrii= sons of Sumitra [Lakshmana,

> > Shatrughna]; saarpe kuliire= under star presided by serpent

> > [aaSreSa,] in Cancer [of Zodiac]; abhyudite ravau= when rising, of

> > Sun- when sun is rising, i.e., on next day of Rama's birth, tenth

> of

> > Chaitra; jaatau= they are born.

> >

> > The fair-minded Bharata is born under Pisces where puSyami is the

> > star of day, and the sons of Sumitra, namely Lakshmana and

> Shatrughna

> > are born under Cancer, where aaSreSa is the star of the day and

> when

> > sun is rising. [1-18-15]

> >

> > Rama is born on the ninth day of Chaitra month, and Bharata is born

> > in the earlier part of next day the tenth of Chaitra, earlier to

> his

> > younger brothers, and then Lakshmana and Shatrughna are born on the

> > later part of the day.

> >

> > 'Pushya is the name of a month; but here it means the eighth

> mansion.

> > The ninth is called Aslesh, or the snake. It is evident from this

> > that Bharata, though his birth is mentioned before that of the

> twins,

> > was the youngest of the four brothers and Rama's junior by eleven

> > months' Schlegel. The eleven-month gap between Rama and Bharata is

> > unapparent in the words of verse. This may be from some other

> version

> > of Ramayana.

> >

> > Verse Locator

> >

> > raaj~naH putraa mahaatmaanaH catvaaro jaj~nire pR^ithak |

> > guNava.ntaH anuruupaaH ca rucyaa proSTha padopamaaH || 1-18-16

> >

> > 16. guNavantaH anuruupaaH cha= virtuous ones, charming, also;

> > ruchyaa= by brilliance; proSTapada upamaaH= [like puurva bhaadra,

> > uttara bhaadra] stars, in simile; mahaatmaanaH= great souls; such;

> > raajnaH putraa= kings', sons; chatvaaraH= four of them; jaj~nire

> > pR^ithak= born, separately.

> >

> > Thus there are four great-souled sons of Dasharatha, born on

> separate

> > instances, who are virtuous, charming, and by brilliance they are

> in

> > similitude with two stars of each of the asterisms called puurva

> > bhadra and uttara bhaadra. [1-18-16]

> >

> > The word proSTa is cow; pada feet; the feet of a cow. It is also

> the

> > name for the asterisms puurvaa bhaadra, uttara baadra , containing

> > stars in the wing of Pegasus, each of which will have two stars,

> and

> > all the four stars make a perfect square. Like the pairs of stars

> the

> > brother also move in pairs – Rama, Lakshmana – Bharata, Shatrughna.

> >

> > The epithet mahaa aatmanaH high-souled ones is though negligible

> for

> > peripheral reading, it is explained as: Rama is one such, as he

> > undertakes sva dharma anuSThaana ; Lakshmana by his sheSatva

> > j~naana ; Bharata by his bhagavat paara tantrya ; and Shatrughna by

> > his bhaagavata paaratantrya.

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Sreenadhji,

Namaskar!

It appears you have not read my post fully. The relevant words are:

< I am quoting the exact English translation, including the words in

brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,(Balakandam)

Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition>

 

Thus the English translation as well has been quoted " word for word "

from the Gita Press edition itself! In other words, these

(translation words) are not my words but the words of Gita Press,

Gorakhkpur, people, who are supposed to be more well versed than a

layman like me!

 

These (Gita Press) editions contain the original sanskrit sholkas as

well but I have not included them since English transliteration

makes a mess of the pronunciation of Sanskrti words!

I have also made it clear in my post that even the Sanskrit shlokas

of the Gita Press edition, which they have translated into English,

are also correct since they tally in to-to with that of Chaukhamba

edition.

Pl. read my post again!

With regards,

AKK

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kaul ji,

> ==>

> 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in Mina,

> Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two days)

to

> Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina and

> that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of them

> are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three months

to

> Bharata!

> <==

> Neither the available slokas, nor their meaning - supports your

> argument. This is an exmple of intentional misinterpretation!! I

agree

> to the fact that the versed mentioning signs could be an

> interpolation, but the meaning you provide for the well known

slokas

> are nothing but stupidity and charletinism of Tropical system -

with

> no sincerity in treating the subject at hand involved!! How can it

> happen to you?! Please correct this - and let us go by correct and

> exact meaning of the sloka.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Kedarnath ji,

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > You have said

> > <Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology has

been

> > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

Ramayana

> > available to us.>

> >

> > You are right! Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of

> > astrology (actually both astronomy and astrology!) has been cast

on

> > Valmiki! It is for you to find out as to who has done so!

> >

> > I am quoting the exact English translation, including the words

in

> > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

(Balakandam)

> > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition, as they have

not

> > printed/published quite a few chapters/cantos in the

last " Kanda "

> > presuming that they were spurious! Obviously, it means that

what

> > they have published is without doubt from the original Ramanaya!

> > Similarly, it cannot be said that they have made the

translations in

> > a haphazard manner since the translators were well equipped

scholars

> > of our shostras!

> > Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Gita Press Ramayana (both

> > with Hindi and English translations) have already been sold by

them!

> >

> > I may also mention in the passing that the original Sanskrit

verses

> > of the Gita Press Ramayana more or less tally exactly with the

one

> > publihed by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, Varanasi, in their 1957

> > edition! Thus it gets doubly confirmed that the Gita Press

edition

> > is quite an quthentic one:

> >

> > The relevant sholkas are:

> > (Verses 8 to 11) " On the ninth lunar day (of the bright

fortnight) of

> > Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the

sacrifices)

> > when the asterism Punarvasu (presided over by Aditi) was in the

> > ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz. the Sun, Mars,

Saturn,

> > Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the

zodiacal

> > signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or Libra,

Karka

> > or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in

> > conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of

Karka,

> > mother Kausalya (the eldest wife of Dasharatha) gave birth to a

> > highly blessed son named Sri Rama " .

> > (Verse 13) " (Next) through (the womb of)Kaikeyi (the youngest

wife

> > of King Dasharatha) was born Bharatha, possessed of true valour,

who

> > actually represented a quarter of Lord Vishnu and was adorned

with

> > all (divine) virtues..

> > (Verse 15) " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the

constellation

> > Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the zodiacal

> > sing of Pisces; while the twin sons of Sumitra were born when

the

> > constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had

reached

> > the meridian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karka (Cancer)

> > (Verse 21) " The king further performed the naming ceremony (with

> > respect to his sons) on completing eleven days (after the birth

of

> > Lakshamana and Shatrugana or thirteen days after the advent of

Shri

> > Rama, which took place two days earlier)

> >

> > There are quite a few astronomically impossible commbinations in

> > these sholkas and these are:

> > 1. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and His Moon in Karka, it

> > cannot be Shukla paksha Namvmi and also the Moon in Punarvasu

> > simultaneously.

> > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in

Mina,

> > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

days) to

> > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina

and

> > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of

them

> > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

months to

> > Bharata!

> >

> > Personally, I would not ascribe such a non-sensensical and

> > meaningless astrological or astronomical knowledge to Valmiki

Rishi

> > but it appears to be the doing of some " followers of

Varahamihira

> > the greatest charlatan " to introduce such interpolations in the

> > Ramayana just to make a common man subservient to their designs

by

> > telling them that even Shri Rama was " governed " by predctive

> > jyotishis! For that matter, only a few days back, in the

Hindustan

> > (Hindi edition), one of the jyoitishis had said that Shri Rama's

> > existence couldnot be doubted since we have His horoscopes in

> > several Jantris!

> >

> > It is thus obvious that as far as Valmiki Rishis himself was

> > concerned, he never bothered about the planetary combinations of

> > Bhagwan Rama etc. since there was no such fear psychosis then,

as

> > otherwise, if at all he had mentioned the horoscope or at least

even

> > the Janma nakshatra of Bhagwan Rama in the Ramayana himself, he

> > woulde not have made such a mess!

> >

> > It all proves beyond all the reasonable (and even unreasonable!)

> > doubts that there was no such malady like " Vedic astrology " in

India

> > at the time of Bhagwan Rama!

> > With regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> > --- In

vedic_research_institute , " prakruthipremi "

> > <smartxpark@> wrote:

> > >

> > > namaste,

> > >

> > > Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology has

been

> > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

Ramayana

> > > available to us.

> > >

> > > One of the aspersion is the the birth star of Bharatha. It is

a

> > great

> > > tribute to the people - Brahmins of India that have preserved

this

> > > much against possible conflicts with the knowledge they had.

They

> > did

> > > not junk the greatest document of history of the greatest

personage

> > > we are blesssed to have Sri.Rama.

> > >

> > > As a result of this preservation without doctoring there is

> > > possibility of more truths emanating.

> > >

> > > One very significant possibility for research:-

> > >

> > > Is the birth of Bharatha in the southern hemisphere? His

mother was

> > > Kaikeyi - Was she a Mayan princess? And did she go to her

parent's

> > > home for delivery?

> > >

> > > http://www.astroppo.com/historyastronomy.html

> > >

> > > The following web adresss is that of Valmiki Ramayana put up

Sri

> > Desi

> > > Raju Hanumantha Rao - This site has 6,78,827 visits since

October

> > 11,

> > > 1998.

> > >

> > > In this - there is thesis that Bharatha was born 12 months

later

> > > according to a German which is not mentioned in Valmiki

Ramayana.

> > >

> > > Advances can be made only if the base logical premise is

Valmiki

> > will

> > > not lie - He is talking about Sri Rama without an agenda except

> > > abuydaya (prosperity) for the future.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga18/bala_18_frame.htm

> > >

> > >

> > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-

18-11

> > >

> > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

completion;

> > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by;

tataH=

> > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike

tithau=

> > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi

daivatye=

> > star

> > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu

> > graheSu

> > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH

indunaa

> > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along

with;

> > pra

> > > udyamane= when raising – ascending, advancing daytime – abhijit

> > > lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord

> > > [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored;

divya

> > > lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH=

> > Vishnu's;

> > > artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly

> > > blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of;

> > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

rakta

> > > oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced;

raamam=

> > Rama

> > > as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > >

> > > On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by and

then in

> > > the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month [April-

May,]

> > > when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is Aditi,

where

> > > the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in the

> > > ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun, Mars,

> > > Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position, when

> > > Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is

> > advancing,

> > > then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the divine

> > > attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate lips,

voice

> > > like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku

dynasty,

> > > who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly blessed

> > > epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]

> > >

> > > By this configuration of stars the supreme merits of Rama are

> > > indicated. atra saÕvastara mukha utt˜yaõa vasanta caitra m˜sa

þukla

> > > pakÿa deva nakÿatra diva abhijit lagna puõya nakÿatr˜d utk®ÿ÷a

k˜le

> > > kark˜÷aka lagne uccasya graha pañcake guru candra yoge þrŸ r˜ma

> > > utpatti× | tasya sarva utk®ÿ÷at˜m sakala kaly˜õa guõa

abhiramat˜m

> > > sakala þiÿ÷a ˜draõŸya sampattim mah˜ par˜kramam ca s¨citam |

> > > dharmaakuutam.

> > >

> > > The words viSNoH artham half of Vishnu- are to be taken as

half of

> > > the fruit of ritual where Vedic ritual itself is pervaded by

> > Vishnu.

> > > The fruit of ritual is obtained in the shape of dessert, and

> > Kausalya

> > > consumed half of it, but it is not half of Vishnu as he is

> > > illimitable.

> > >

> > > Verse Locator

> > >

> > > kausalyaa shushubhe tena putreNa amita tejasaa |

> > > yathaa vareNa devaanaam aditiH vajra paaNinaa || 1-18-12

> > >

> > > 12. Kausalya; a+mita tejasaa= one with unlimited resplendence;

tena

> > > putreNa= by that, son; devaanaam vareNa= among gods, the best

one;

> > > vajra paaNinaa= by Thunderbolt, in hand [wielder - Indra];

adithiH

> > > yathaa shushubhe= Lady Aditi, as with, shone forth.

> > >

> > > Kausalya shone forth with such a son whose resplendence is

> > unlimited,

> > > as with lady Aditi who once stood out with her son Indra, the

best

> > > one among gods. [1-18-12]

> > >

> > > Verse Locator

> > >

> > > bharato naama kaikeyyaam jaj~ne satya paraakramaH |

> > > saakSaat viSNoH caturtha bhaagaH sarvaiH samudito guNaiH || 1-

18-13

> > >

> > > 13. satya paraakramaH= truthfulness, as his valour; saakshaat

> > viSNoH=

> > > manifest, Vishnu's; chatur bhaagaH= fourth, component; sarvaiH

> > guNaiH

> > > samuditaH= with all, merits, embodied with ; Bharata; naama

> > > kaikeyyaam jaj~ne= named, to Queen Kaikeyi, born to.

> > >

> > > Queen Kaikeyi gave birth to Bharata, one embodied with all

merits,

> > > and whose truthfulness itself is his valour and who is fourth

> > > component of manifest Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-13]

> > >

> > > The fraction indicated here like 'one fourth of Vishnu' etc

may be

> > > reckoned as the share of the dessert consumed by the queens,

but

> > not

> > > as a cleaved portion of Vishnu as he is an indivisible entity.

Here

> > > it is half of one-fourth i.e., one-eighth of dessert given to

> > Kaikeyi.

> > >

> > > Verse Locator

> > >

> > > atha laxmaNa shatrughnau sumitraa ajanayat sutau |

> > > viirau sarva astra kushalau viSNoH ardha samanvitau | 1-18-14

> > >

> > > 14. atha= then; Queen Sumitra; viiraau= valiant ones; sarva

astra

> > > kushalau= all, weaponry, experts; viSNoH= Vishnu's; artha=

essence,

> > > epitome; samanvitou= those that are embodied with; Lakshmana;

> > > Shatrughna; sutou ajanayat= to sons, gave birth.

> > >

> > > Queen Sumitra then gave birth to two sons who are the embodied

> > > epitomes of Vishnu, namely Lakshmana, and Shatrughna, who are

> > valiant

> > > ones and experts in all kinds of weaponry. [1-18-14]

> > >

> > > Verse Locator

> > >

> > > puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |

> > > saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15

> > >

> > > 15. prasanna dhiiH= level, headed one – guileless, fair-minded;

> > > Bharata; pushye miina lagne jaataH= under Pushyami star, in

Pisces

> > > [of Zodiac,] born; saumitrii= sons of Sumitra [Lakshmana,

> > > Shatrughna]; saarpe kuliire= under star presided by serpent

> > > [aaSreSa,] in Cancer [of Zodiac]; abhyudite ravau= when

rising, of

> > > Sun- when sun is rising, i.e., on next day of Rama's birth,

tenth

> > of

> > > Chaitra; jaatau= they are born.

> > >

> > > The fair-minded Bharata is born under Pisces where puSyami is

the

> > > star of day, and the sons of Sumitra, namely Lakshmana and

> > Shatrughna

> > > are born under Cancer, where aaSreSa is the star of the day

and

> > when

> > > sun is rising. [1-18-15]

> > >

> > > Rama is born on the ninth day of Chaitra month, and Bharata is

born

> > > in the earlier part of next day the tenth of Chaitra, earlier

to

> > his

> > > younger brothers, and then Lakshmana and Shatrughna are born

on the

> > > later part of the day.

> > >

> > > 'Pushya is the name of a month; but here it means the eighth

> > mansion.

> > > The ninth is called Aslesh, or the snake. It is evident from

this

> > > that Bharata, though his birth is mentioned before that of the

> > twins,

> > > was the youngest of the four brothers and Rama's junior by

eleven

> > > months' Schlegel. The eleven-month gap between Rama and

Bharata is

> > > unapparent in the words of verse. This may be from some other

> > version

> > > of Ramayana.

> > >

> > > Verse Locator

> > >

> > > raaj~naH putraa mahaatmaanaH catvaaro jaj~nire pR^ithak |

> > > guNava.ntaH anuruupaaH ca rucyaa proSTha padopamaaH || 1-18-16

> > >

> > > 16. guNavantaH anuruupaaH cha= virtuous ones, charming, also;

> > > ruchyaa= by brilliance; proSTapada upamaaH= [like puurva

bhaadra,

> > > uttara bhaadra] stars, in simile; mahaatmaanaH= great souls;

such;

> > > raajnaH putraa= kings', sons; chatvaaraH= four of them;

jaj~nire

> > > pR^ithak= born, separately.

> > >

> > > Thus there are four great-souled sons of Dasharatha, born on

> > separate

> > > instances, who are virtuous, charming, and by brilliance they

are

> > in

> > > similitude with two stars of each of the asterisms called

puurva

> > > bhadra and uttara bhaadra. [1-18-16]

> > >

> > > The word proSTa is cow; pada feet; the feet of a cow. It is

also

> > the

> > > name for the asterisms puurvaa bhaadra, uttara baadra ,

containing

> > > stars in the wing of Pegasus, each of which will have two

stars,

> > and

> > > all the four stars make a perfect square. Like the pairs of

stars

> > the

> > > brother also move in pairs – Rama, Lakshmana – Bharata,

Shatrughna.

> > >

> > > The epithet mahaa aatmanaH high-souled ones is though

negligible

> > for

> > > peripheral reading, it is explained as: Rama is one such, as he

> > > undertakes sva dharma anuSThaana ; Lakshmana by his sheSatva

> > > j~naana ; Bharata by his bhagavat paara tantrya ; and

Shatrughna by

> > > his bhaagavata paaratantrya.

> > >

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

Please stop this irrelevant words and type the quote in Sanskrit

with meaning, convert it to a pdf file and upload it in files

section. Of course if you can't do that, wait, I will be doing it for

you in a day or two.

Note: Actually all these sign related discussions, I was amending

to the last. But as usual with your unsystematic approach, this too

you are turning upside down. Please learn to be patient and approach

the subject systematically - instead of quoting a single or two

slokas and projecting - 'I know all' attitude! As of the quotes - I

will try to type them and upload them in the files section possibly

by day after tomorrow.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Sreenadhji,

> Namaskar!

> It appears you have not read my post fully. The relevant words are:

> < I am quoting the exact English translation, including the words

in

> brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,(Balakandam)

> Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition>

>

> Thus the English translation as well has been quoted " word for

word "

> from the Gita Press edition itself! In other words, these

> (translation words) are not my words but the words of Gita Press,

> Gorakhkpur, people, who are supposed to be more well versed than a

> layman like me!

>

> These (Gita Press) editions contain the original sanskrit sholkas

as

> well but I have not included them since English transliteration

> makes a mess of the pronunciation of Sanskrti words!

> I have also made it clear in my post that even the Sanskrit

shlokas

> of the Gita Press edition, which they have translated into English,

> are also correct since they tally in to-to with that of Chaukhamba

> edition.

> Pl. read my post again!

> With regards,

> AKK

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > ==>

> > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in

Mina,

> > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two days)

> to

> > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina

and

> > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of them

> > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three months

> to

> > Bharata!

> > <==

> > Neither the available slokas, nor their meaning - supports your

> > argument. This is an exmple of intentional misinterpretation!! I

> agree

> > to the fact that the versed mentioning signs could be an

> > interpolation, but the meaning you provide for the well known

> slokas

> > are nothing but stupidity and charletinism of Tropical system -

> with

> > no sincerity in treating the subject at hand involved!! How can it

> > happen to you?! Please correct this - and let us go by correct and

> > exact meaning of the sloka.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen

> > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Kedarnath ji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > >

> > > You have said

> > > <Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology has

> been

> > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

> Ramayana

> > > available to us.>

> > >

> > > You are right! Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge

of

> > > astrology (actually both astronomy and astrology!) has been

cast

> on

> > > Valmiki! It is for you to find out as to who has done so!

> > >

> > > I am quoting the exact English translation, including the

words

> in

> > > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

> (Balakandam)

> > > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> > > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition, as they

have

> not

> > > printed/published quite a few chapters/cantos in the

> last " Kanda "

> > > presuming that they were spurious! Obviously, it means that

> what

> > > they have published is without doubt from the original

Ramanaya!

> > > Similarly, it cannot be said that they have made the

> translations in

> > > a haphazard manner since the translators were well equipped

> scholars

> > > of our shostras!

> > > Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Gita Press Ramayana

(both

> > > with Hindi and English translations) have already been sold by

> them!

> > >

> > > I may also mention in the passing that the original Sanskrit

> verses

> > > of the Gita Press Ramayana more or less tally exactly with the

> one

> > > publihed by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, Varanasi, in their 1957

> > > edition! Thus it gets doubly confirmed that the Gita Press

> edition

> > > is quite an quthentic one:

> > >

> > > The relevant sholkas are:

> > > (Verses 8 to 11) " On the ninth lunar day (of the bright

> fortnight) of

> > > Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the

> sacrifices)

> > > when the asterism Punarvasu (presided over by Aditi) was in the

> > > ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz. the Sun, Mars,

> Saturn,

> > > Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the

> zodiacal

> > > signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or Libra,

> Karka

> > > or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in

> > > conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of

> Karka,

> > > mother Kausalya (the eldest wife of Dasharatha) gave birth to a

> > > highly blessed son named Sri Rama " .

> > > (Verse 13) " (Next) through (the womb of)Kaikeyi (the youngest

> wife

> > > of King Dasharatha) was born Bharatha, possessed of true

valour,

> who

> > > actually represented a quarter of Lord Vishnu and was adorned

> with

> > > all (divine) virtues..

> > > (Verse 15) " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the

> constellation

> > > Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the

zodiacal

> > > sing of Pisces; while the twin sons of Sumitra were born when

> the

> > > constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had

> reached

> > > the meridian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karka (Cancer)

> > > (Verse 21) " The king further performed the naming ceremony (with

> > > respect to his sons) on completing eleven days (after the birth

> of

> > > Lakshamana and Shatrugana or thirteen days after the advent of

> Shri

> > > Rama, which took place two days earlier)

> > >

> > > There are quite a few astronomically impossible commbinations

in

> > > these sholkas and these are:

> > > 1. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and His Moon in Karka,

it

> > > cannot be Shukla paksha Namvmi and also the Moon in Punarvasu

> > > simultaneously.

> > > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in

> Mina,

> > > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

> days) to

> > > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in Mina

> and

> > > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of

> them

> > > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

> months to

> > > Bharata!

> > >

> > > Personally, I would not ascribe such a non-sensensical and

> > > meaningless astrological or astronomical knowledge to Valmiki

> Rishi

> > > but it appears to be the doing of some " followers of

> Varahamihira

> > > the greatest charlatan " to introduce such interpolations in the

> > > Ramayana just to make a common man subservient to their designs

> by

> > > telling them that even Shri Rama was " governed " by predctive

> > > jyotishis! For that matter, only a few days back, in the

> Hindustan

> > > (Hindi edition), one of the jyoitishis had said that Shri

Rama's

> > > existence couldnot be doubted since we have His horoscopes in

> > > several Jantris!

> > >

> > > It is thus obvious that as far as Valmiki Rishis himself was

> > > concerned, he never bothered about the planetary combinations

of

> > > Bhagwan Rama etc. since there was no such fear psychosis then,

> as

> > > otherwise, if at all he had mentioned the horoscope or at least

> even

> > > the Janma nakshatra of Bhagwan Rama in the Ramayana himself, he

> > > woulde not have made such a mess!

> > >

> > > It all proves beyond all the reasonable (and even

unreasonable!)

> > > doubts that there was no such malady like " Vedic astrology " in

> India

> > > at the time of Bhagwan Rama!

> > > With regards,

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > >

> > > --- In

> vedic_research_institute , " prakruthipremi "

> > > <smartxpark@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology

has

> been

> > > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

> Ramayana

> > > > available to us.

> > > >

> > > > One of the aspersion is the the birth star of Bharatha. It is

> a

> > > great

> > > > tribute to the people - Brahmins of India that have preserved

> this

> > > > much against possible conflicts with the knowledge they had.

> They

> > > did

> > > > not junk the greatest document of history of the greatest

> personage

> > > > we are blesssed to have Sri.Rama.

> > > >

> > > > As a result of this preservation without doctoring there is

> > > > possibility of more truths emanating.

> > > >

> > > > One very significant possibility for research:-

> > > >

> > > > Is the birth of Bharatha in the southern hemisphere? His

> mother was

> > > > Kaikeyi - Was she a Mayan princess? And did she go to her

> parent's

> > > > home for delivery?

> > > >

> > > > http://www.astroppo.com/historyastronomy.html

> > > >

> > > > The following web adresss is that of Valmiki Ramayana put up

> Sri

> > > Desi

> > > > Raju Hanumantha Rao - This site has 6,78,827 visits since

> October

> > > 11,

> > > > 1998.

> > > >

> > > > In this - there is thesis that Bharatha was born 12 months

> later

> > > > according to a German which is not mentioned in Valmiki

> Ramayana.

> > > >

> > > > Advances can be made only if the base logical premise is

> Valmiki

> > > will

> > > > not lie - He is talking about Sri Rama without an agenda

except

> > > > abuydaya (prosperity) for the future.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga18/bala_18_frame.htm

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-

> 18-11

> > > >

> > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> completion;

> > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by;

> tataH=

> > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike

> tithau=

> > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi

> daivatye=

> > > star

> > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu

> > > graheSu

> > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH

> indunaa

> > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along

> with;

> > > pra

> > > > udyamane= when raising – ascending, advancing daytime –

abhijit

> > > > lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord

> > > > [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored;

> divya

> > > > lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH=

> > > Vishnu's;

> > > > artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam=

greatly

> > > > blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight

of;

> > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

> rakta

> > > > oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced;

> raamam=

> > > Rama

> > > > as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > >

> > > > On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by and

> then in

> > > > the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month [April-

> May,]

> > > > when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is Aditi,

> where

> > > > the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in the

> > > > ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun, Mars,

> > > > Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position, when

> > > > Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is

> > > advancing,

> > > > then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the divine

> > > > attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate lips,

> voice

> > > > like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku

> dynasty,

> > > > who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly

blessed

> > > > epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]

> > > >

> > > > By this configuration of stars the supreme merits of Rama are

> > > > indicated. atra saÕvastara mukha utt˜yaõa vasanta caitra m˜sa

> þukla

> > > > pakÿa deva nakÿatra diva abhijit lagna puõya nakÿatr˜d

utk®ÿ÷a

> k˜le

> > > > kark˜÷aka lagne uccasya graha pañcake guru candra yoge þrŸ

r˜ma

> > > > utpatti× | tasya sarva utk®ÿ÷at˜m sakala kaly˜õa guõa

> abhiramat˜m

> > > > sakala þiÿ÷a ˜draõŸya sampattim mah˜ par˜kramam ca s¨citam |

> > > > dharmaakuutam.

> > > >

> > > > The words viSNoH artham half of Vishnu- are to be taken as

> half of

> > > > the fruit of ritual where Vedic ritual itself is pervaded by

> > > Vishnu.

> > > > The fruit of ritual is obtained in the shape of dessert, and

> > > Kausalya

> > > > consumed half of it, but it is not half of Vishnu as he is

> > > > illimitable.

> > > >

> > > > Verse Locator

> > > >

> > > > kausalyaa shushubhe tena putreNa amita tejasaa |

> > > > yathaa vareNa devaanaam aditiH vajra paaNinaa || 1-18-12

> > > >

> > > > 12. Kausalya; a+mita tejasaa= one with unlimited

resplendence;

> tena

> > > > putreNa= by that, son; devaanaam vareNa= among gods, the best

> one;

> > > > vajra paaNinaa= by Thunderbolt, in hand [wielder - Indra];

> adithiH

> > > > yathaa shushubhe= Lady Aditi, as with, shone forth.

> > > >

> > > > Kausalya shone forth with such a son whose resplendence is

> > > unlimited,

> > > > as with lady Aditi who once stood out with her son Indra, the

> best

> > > > one among gods. [1-18-12]

> > > >

> > > > Verse Locator

> > > >

> > > > bharato naama kaikeyyaam jaj~ne satya paraakramaH |

> > > > saakSaat viSNoH caturtha bhaagaH sarvaiH samudito guNaiH || 1-

> 18-13

> > > >

> > > > 13. satya paraakramaH= truthfulness, as his valour; saakshaat

> > > viSNoH=

> > > > manifest, Vishnu's; chatur bhaagaH= fourth, component;

sarvaiH

> > > guNaiH

> > > > samuditaH= with all, merits, embodied with ; Bharata; naama

> > > > kaikeyyaam jaj~ne= named, to Queen Kaikeyi, born to.

> > > >

> > > > Queen Kaikeyi gave birth to Bharata, one embodied with all

> merits,

> > > > and whose truthfulness itself is his valour and who is fourth

> > > > component of manifest Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-13]

> > > >

> > > > The fraction indicated here like 'one fourth of Vishnu' etc

> may be

> > > > reckoned as the share of the dessert consumed by the queens,

> but

> > > not

> > > > as a cleaved portion of Vishnu as he is an indivisible

entity.

> Here

> > > > it is half of one-fourth i.e., one-eighth of dessert given to

> > > Kaikeyi.

> > > >

> > > > Verse Locator

> > > >

> > > > atha laxmaNa shatrughnau sumitraa ajanayat sutau |

> > > > viirau sarva astra kushalau viSNoH ardha samanvitau | 1-18-14

> > > >

> > > > 14. atha= then; Queen Sumitra; viiraau= valiant ones; sarva

> astra

> > > > kushalau= all, weaponry, experts; viSNoH= Vishnu's; artha=

> essence,

> > > > epitome; samanvitou= those that are embodied with; Lakshmana;

> > > > Shatrughna; sutou ajanayat= to sons, gave birth.

> > > >

> > > > Queen Sumitra then gave birth to two sons who are the embodied

> > > > epitomes of Vishnu, namely Lakshmana, and Shatrughna, who are

> > > valiant

> > > > ones and experts in all kinds of weaponry. [1-18-14]

> > > >

> > > > Verse Locator

> > > >

> > > > puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |

> > > > saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15

> > > >

> > > > 15. prasanna dhiiH= level, headed one – guileless, fair-

minded;

> > > > Bharata; pushye miina lagne jaataH= under Pushyami star, in

> Pisces

> > > > [of Zodiac,] born; saumitrii= sons of Sumitra [Lakshmana,

> > > > Shatrughna]; saarpe kuliire= under star presided by serpent

> > > > [aaSreSa,] in Cancer [of Zodiac]; abhyudite ravau= when

> rising, of

> > > > Sun- when sun is rising, i.e., on next day of Rama's birth,

> tenth

> > > of

> > > > Chaitra; jaatau= they are born.

> > > >

> > > > The fair-minded Bharata is born under Pisces where puSyami is

> the

> > > > star of day, and the sons of Sumitra, namely Lakshmana and

> > > Shatrughna

> > > > are born under Cancer, where aaSreSa is the star of the day

> and

> > > when

> > > > sun is rising. [1-18-15]

> > > >

> > > > Rama is born on the ninth day of Chaitra month, and Bharata

is

> born

> > > > in the earlier part of next day the tenth of Chaitra, earlier

> to

> > > his

> > > > younger brothers, and then Lakshmana and Shatrughna are born

> on the

> > > > later part of the day.

> > > >

> > > > 'Pushya is the name of a month; but here it means the eighth

> > > mansion.

> > > > The ninth is called Aslesh, or the snake. It is evident from

> this

> > > > that Bharata, though his birth is mentioned before that of

the

> > > twins,

> > > > was the youngest of the four brothers and Rama's junior by

> eleven

> > > > months' Schlegel. The eleven-month gap between Rama and

> Bharata is

> > > > unapparent in the words of verse. This may be from some other

> > > version

> > > > of Ramayana.

> > > >

> > > > Verse Locator

> > > >

> > > > raaj~naH putraa mahaatmaanaH catvaaro jaj~nire pR^ithak |

> > > > guNava.ntaH anuruupaaH ca rucyaa proSTha padopamaaH || 1-18-16

> > > >

> > > > 16. guNavantaH anuruupaaH cha= virtuous ones, charming, also;

> > > > ruchyaa= by brilliance; proSTapada upamaaH= [like puurva

> bhaadra,

> > > > uttara bhaadra] stars, in simile; mahaatmaanaH= great souls;

> such;

> > > > raajnaH putraa= kings', sons; chatvaaraH= four of them;

> jaj~nire

> > > > pR^ithak= born, separately.

> > > >

> > > > Thus there are four great-souled sons of Dasharatha, born on

> > > separate

> > > > instances, who are virtuous, charming, and by brilliance they

> are

> > > in

> > > > similitude with two stars of each of the asterisms called

> puurva

> > > > bhadra and uttara bhaadra. [1-18-16]

> > > >

> > > > The word proSTa is cow; pada feet; the feet of a cow. It is

> also

> > > the

> > > > name for the asterisms puurvaa bhaadra, uttara baadra ,

> containing

> > > > stars in the wing of Pegasus, each of which will have two

> stars,

> > > and

> > > > all the four stars make a perfect square. Like the pairs of

> stars

> > > the

> > > > brother also move in pairs – Rama, Lakshmana – Bharata,

> Shatrughna.

> > > >

> > > > The epithet mahaa aatmanaH high-souled ones is though

> negligible

> > > for

> > > > peripheral reading, it is explained as: Rama is one such, as

he

> > > > undertakes sva dharma anuSThaana ; Lakshmana by his sheSatva

> > > > j~naana ; Bharata by his bhagavat paara tantrya ; and

> Shatrughna by

> > > > his bhaagavata paaratantrya.

> > > >

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shjri Sreenadhji,

Namaskar!

1. My post is actually in reply to a post of Shri Kedarntah on a

different forum though he is a member of this forum as well!

Instead of giving him my own translation of the original sholkas of

the Ramayana, it was better to quote to him the translation from the

Gita Press edition, since he could have attributed bias to my

translation whereas he could not level such charges against Gita

Press translators!

2. As and when you upload the original sholkas, please upload the

Gita Press translation as well, so that people can draw their own

conclusions!

Regards,

AKK

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kaul ji,

> Please stop this irrelevant words and type the quote in Sanskrit

> with meaning, convert it to a pdf file and upload it in files

> section. Of course if you can't do that, wait, I will be doing it

for

> you in a day or two.

> Note: Actually all these sign related discussions, I was

amending

> to the last. But as usual with your unsystematic approach, this

too

> you are turning upside down. Please learn to be patient and

approach

> the subject systematically - instead of quoting a single or two

> slokas and projecting - 'I know all' attitude! As of the quotes -

I

> will try to type them and upload them in the files section

possibly

> by day after tomorrow.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Sreenadhji,

> > Namaskar!

> > It appears you have not read my post fully. The relevant words

are:

> > < I am quoting the exact English translation, including the

words

> in

> > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

(Balakandam)

> > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition>

> >

> > Thus the English translation as well has been quoted " word for

> word "

> > from the Gita Press edition itself! In other words, these

> > (translation words) are not my words but the words of Gita

Press,

> > Gorakhkpur, people, who are supposed to be more well versed than

a

> > layman like me!

> >

> > These (Gita Press) editions contain the original sanskrit

sholkas

> as

> > well but I have not included them since English transliteration

> > makes a mess of the pronunciation of Sanskrti words!

> > I have also made it clear in my post that even the Sanskrit

> shlokas

> > of the Gita Press edition, which they have translated into

English,

> > are also correct since they tally in to-to with that of

Chaukhamba

> > edition.

> > Pl. read my post again!

> > With regards,

> > AKK

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kaul ji,

> > > ==>

> > > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in

> Mina,

> > > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

days)

> > to

> > > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in

Mina

> and

> > > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of

them

> > > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

months

> > to

> > > Bharata!

> > > <==

> > > Neither the available slokas, nor their meaning - supports

your

> > > argument. This is an exmple of intentional misinterpretation!!

I

> > agree

> > > to the fact that the versed mentioning signs could be an

> > > interpolation, but the meaning you provide for the well known

> > slokas

> > > are nothing but stupidity and charletinism of Tropical system -

 

> > with

> > > no sincerity in treating the subject at hand involved!! How

can it

> > > happen to you?! Please correct this - and let us go by correct

and

> > > exact meaning of the sloka.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " Avtar

Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > vedic_research_institute , " Avtar

Krishen

> > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Kedarnath ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > >

> > > > You have said

> > > > <Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology

has

> > been

> > > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

> > Ramayana

> > > > available to us.>

> > > >

> > > > You are right! Aspersions of stupidity and lack of

knowledge

> of

> > > > astrology (actually both astronomy and astrology!) has been

> cast

> > on

> > > > Valmiki! It is for you to find out as to who has done so!

> > > >

> > > > I am quoting the exact English translation, including the

> words

> > in

> > > > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

> > (Balakandam)

> > > > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> > > > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition, as they

> have

> > not

> > > > printed/published quite a few chapters/cantos in the

> > last " Kanda "

> > > > presuming that they were spurious! Obviously, it means that

> > what

> > > > they have published is without doubt from the original

> Ramanaya!

> > > > Similarly, it cannot be said that they have made the

> > translations in

> > > > a haphazard manner since the translators were well equipped

> > scholars

> > > > of our shostras!

> > > > Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Gita Press Ramayana

> (both

> > > > with Hindi and English translations) have already been sold

by

> > them!

> > > >

> > > > I may also mention in the passing that the original Sanskrit

> > verses

> > > > of the Gita Press Ramayana more or less tally exactly with

the

> > one

> > > > publihed by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, Varanasi, in their 1957

> > > > edition! Thus it gets doubly confirmed that the Gita Press

> > edition

> > > > is quite an quthentic one:

> > > >

> > > > The relevant sholkas are:

> > > > (Verses 8 to 11) " On the ninth lunar day (of the bright

> > fortnight) of

> > > > Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the

> > sacrifices)

> > > > when the asterism Punarvasu (presided over by Aditi) was in

the

> > > > ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz. the Sun, Mars,

> > Saturn,

> > > > Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the

> > zodiacal

> > > > signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or

Libra,

> > Karka

> > > > or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in

> > > > conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of

> > Karka,

> > > > mother Kausalya (the eldest wife of Dasharatha) gave birth

to a

> > > > highly blessed son named Sri Rama " .

> > > > (Verse 13) " (Next) through (the womb of)Kaikeyi (the

youngest

> > wife

> > > > of King Dasharatha) was born Bharatha, possessed of true

> valour,

> > who

> > > > actually represented a quarter of Lord Vishnu and was

adorned

> > with

> > > > all (divine) virtues..

> > > > (Verse 15) " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the

> > constellation

> > > > Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the

> zodiacal

> > > > sing of Pisces; while the twin sons of Sumitra were born

when

> > the

> > > > constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had

> > reached

> > > > the meridian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karka (Cancer)

> > > > (Verse 21) " The king further performed the naming ceremony

(with

> > > > respect to his sons) on completing eleven days (after the

birth

> > of

> > > > Lakshamana and Shatrugana or thirteen days after the advent

of

> > Shri

> > > > Rama, which took place two days earlier)

> > > >

> > > > There are quite a few astronomically impossible

commbinations

> in

> > > > these sholkas and these are:

> > > > 1. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and His Moon in

Karka,

> it

> > > > cannot be Shukla paksha Namvmi and also the Moon in

Punarvasu

> > > > simultaneously.

> > > > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata

in

> > Mina,

> > > > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

> > days) to

> > > > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > > > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in

Mina

> > and

> > > > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of

> > them

> > > > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

> > months to

> > > > Bharata!

> > > >

> > > > Personally, I would not ascribe such a non-sensensical and

> > > > meaningless astrological or astronomical knowledge to

Valmiki

> > Rishi

> > > > but it appears to be the doing of some " followers of

> > Varahamihira

> > > > the greatest charlatan " to introduce such interpolations in

the

> > > > Ramayana just to make a common man subservient to their

designs

> > by

> > > > telling them that even Shri Rama was " governed " by predctive

> > > > jyotishis! For that matter, only a few days back, in the

> > Hindustan

> > > > (Hindi edition), one of the jyoitishis had said that Shri

> Rama's

> > > > existence couldnot be doubted since we have His horoscopes

in

> > > > several Jantris!

> > > >

> > > > It is thus obvious that as far as Valmiki Rishis himself was

> > > > concerned, he never bothered about the planetary

combinations

> of

> > > > Bhagwan Rama etc. since there was no such fear psychosis

then,

> > as

> > > > otherwise, if at all he had mentioned the horoscope or at

least

> > even

> > > > the Janma nakshatra of Bhagwan Rama in the Ramayana himself,

he

> > > > woulde not have made such a mess!

> > > >

> > > > It all proves beyond all the reasonable (and even

> unreasonable!)

> > > > doubts that there was no such malady like " Vedic astrology "

in

> > India

> > > > at the time of Bhagwan Rama!

> > > > With regards,

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> > vedic_research_institute , " prakruthipremi "

> > > > <smartxpark@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology

> has

> > been

> > > > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

> > Ramayana

> > > > > available to us.

> > > > >

> > > > > One of the aspersion is the the birth star of Bharatha. It

is

> > a

> > > > great

> > > > > tribute to the people - Brahmins of India that have

preserved

> > this

> > > > > much against possible conflicts with the knowledge they

had.

> > They

> > > > did

> > > > > not junk the greatest document of history of the greatest

> > personage

> > > > > we are blesssed to have Sri.Rama.

> > > > >

> > > > > As a result of this preservation without doctoring there is

> > > > > possibility of more truths emanating.

> > > > >

> > > > > One very significant possibility for research:-

> > > > >

> > > > > Is the birth of Bharatha in the southern hemisphere? His

> > mother was

> > > > > Kaikeyi - Was she a Mayan princess? And did she go to her

> > parent's

> > > > > home for delivery?

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.astroppo.com/historyastronomy.html

> > > > >

> > > > > The following web adresss is that of Valmiki Ramayana put

up

> > Sri

> > > > Desi

> > > > > Raju Hanumantha Rao - This site has 6,78,827 visits since

> > October

> > > > 11,

> > > > > 1998.

> > > > >

> > > > > In this - there is thesis that Bharatha was born 12 months

> > later

> > > > > according to a German which is not mentioned in Valmiki

> > Ramayana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Advances can be made only if the base logical premise is

> > Valmiki

> > > > will

> > > > > not lie - He is talking about Sri Rama without an agenda

> except

> > > > > abuydaya (prosperity) for the future.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga18/bala_18_frame.htm

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

10

> > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam ||

1-

> > 18-11

> > > > >

> > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> > completion;

> > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by;

> > tataH=

> > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre

naavamike

> > tithau=

> > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi

> > daivatye=

> > > > star

> > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi;

panchasu

> > > > graheSu

> > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own,

highest,

> > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH

> > indunaa

> > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along

> > with;

> > > > pra

> > > > > udyamane= when raising – ascending, advancing daytime –

> abhijit

> > > > > lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds',

lord

> > > > > [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored;

> > divya

> > > > > lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH=

> > > > Vishnu's;

> > > > > artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam=

> greatly

> > > > > blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

delight

> of;

> > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

armed;

> > rakta

> > > > > oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced;

> > raamam=

> > > > Rama

> > > > > as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by and

> > then in

> > > > > the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month

[April-

> > May,]

> > > > > when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is

Aditi,

> > where

> > > > > the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in the

> > > > > ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun,

Mars,

> > > > > Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position,

when

> > > > > Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is

> > > > advancing,

> > > > > then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the divine

> > > > > attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate

lips,

> > voice

> > > > > like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku

> > dynasty,

> > > > > who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly

> blessed

> > > > > epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]

> > > > >

> > > > > By this configuration of stars the supreme merits of Rama

are

> > > > > indicated. atra saÕvastara mukha utt˜yaõa vasanta caitra

m˜sa

> > þukla

> > > > > pakÿa deva nakÿatra diva abhijit lagna puõya nakÿatr˜d

> utk®ÿ÷a

> > k˜le

> > > > > kark˜÷aka lagne uccasya graha pañcake guru candra yoge þrŸ

> r˜ma

> > > > > utpatti× | tasya sarva utk®ÿ÷at˜m sakala kaly˜õa guõa

> > abhiramat˜m

> > > > > sakala þiÿ÷a ˜draõŸya sampattim mah˜ par˜kramam ca s¨citam

|

> > > > > dharmaakuutam.

> > > > >

> > > > > The words viSNoH artham half of Vishnu- are to be taken as

> > half of

> > > > > the fruit of ritual where Vedic ritual itself is pervaded

by

> > > > Vishnu.

> > > > > The fruit of ritual is obtained in the shape of dessert,

and

> > > > Kausalya

> > > > > consumed half of it, but it is not half of Vishnu as he is

> > > > > illimitable.

> > > > >

> > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > >

> > > > > kausalyaa shushubhe tena putreNa amita tejasaa |

> > > > > yathaa vareNa devaanaam aditiH vajra paaNinaa || 1-18-12

> > > > >

> > > > > 12. Kausalya; a+mita tejasaa= one with unlimited

> resplendence;

> > tena

> > > > > putreNa= by that, son; devaanaam vareNa= among gods, the

best

> > one;

> > > > > vajra paaNinaa= by Thunderbolt, in hand [wielder - Indra];

> > adithiH

> > > > > yathaa shushubhe= Lady Aditi, as with, shone forth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kausalya shone forth with such a son whose resplendence is

> > > > unlimited,

> > > > > as with lady Aditi who once stood out with her son Indra,

the

> > best

> > > > > one among gods. [1-18-12]

> > > > >

> > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > >

> > > > > bharato naama kaikeyyaam jaj~ne satya paraakramaH |

> > > > > saakSaat viSNoH caturtha bhaagaH sarvaiH samudito guNaiH

|| 1-

> > 18-13

> > > > >

> > > > > 13. satya paraakramaH= truthfulness, as his valour;

saakshaat

> > > > viSNoH=

> > > > > manifest, Vishnu's; chatur bhaagaH= fourth, component;

> sarvaiH

> > > > guNaiH

> > > > > samuditaH= with all, merits, embodied with ; Bharata; naama

> > > > > kaikeyyaam jaj~ne= named, to Queen Kaikeyi, born to.

> > > > >

> > > > > Queen Kaikeyi gave birth to Bharata, one embodied with all

> > merits,

> > > > > and whose truthfulness itself is his valour and who is

fourth

> > > > > component of manifest Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-13]

> > > > >

> > > > > The fraction indicated here like 'one fourth of Vishnu'

etc

> > may be

> > > > > reckoned as the share of the dessert consumed by the

queens,

> > but

> > > > not

> > > > > as a cleaved portion of Vishnu as he is an indivisible

> entity.

> > Here

> > > > > it is half of one-fourth i.e., one-eighth of dessert given

to

> > > > Kaikeyi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > >

> > > > > atha laxmaNa shatrughnau sumitraa ajanayat sutau |

> > > > > viirau sarva astra kushalau viSNoH ardha samanvitau | 1-18-

14

> > > > >

> > > > > 14. atha= then; Queen Sumitra; viiraau= valiant ones;

sarva

> > astra

> > > > > kushalau= all, weaponry, experts; viSNoH= Vishnu's; artha=

> > essence,

> > > > > epitome; samanvitou= those that are embodied with;

Lakshmana;

> > > > > Shatrughna; sutou ajanayat= to sons, gave birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Queen Sumitra then gave birth to two sons who are the

embodied

> > > > > epitomes of Vishnu, namely Lakshmana, and Shatrughna, who

are

> > > > valiant

> > > > > ones and experts in all kinds of weaponry. [1-18-14]

> > > > >

> > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > >

> > > > > puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |

> > > > > saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-15

> > > > >

> > > > > 15. prasanna dhiiH= level, headed one – guileless, fair-

> minded;

> > > > > Bharata; pushye miina lagne jaataH= under Pushyami star,

in

> > Pisces

> > > > > [of Zodiac,] born; saumitrii= sons of Sumitra [Lakshmana,

> > > > > Shatrughna]; saarpe kuliire= under star presided by serpent

> > > > > [aaSreSa,] in Cancer [of Zodiac]; abhyudite ravau= when

> > rising, of

> > > > > Sun- when sun is rising, i.e., on next day of Rama's

birth,

> > tenth

> > > > of

> > > > > Chaitra; jaatau= they are born.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fair-minded Bharata is born under Pisces where puSyami

is

> > the

> > > > > star of day, and the sons of Sumitra, namely Lakshmana and

> > > > Shatrughna

> > > > > are born under Cancer, where aaSreSa is the star of the

day

> > and

> > > > when

> > > > > sun is rising. [1-18-15]

> > > > >

> > > > > Rama is born on the ninth day of Chaitra month, and

Bharata

> is

> > born

> > > > > in the earlier part of next day the tenth of Chaitra,

earlier

> > to

> > > > his

> > > > > younger brothers, and then Lakshmana and Shatrughna are

born

> > on the

> > > > > later part of the day.

> > > > >

> > > > > 'Pushya is the name of a month; but here it means the

eighth

> > > > mansion.

> > > > > The ninth is called Aslesh, or the snake. It is evident

from

> > this

> > > > > that Bharata, though his birth is mentioned before that of

> the

> > > > twins,

> > > > > was the youngest of the four brothers and Rama's junior by

> > eleven

> > > > > months' Schlegel. The eleven-month gap between Rama and

> > Bharata is

> > > > > unapparent in the words of verse. This may be from some

other

> > > > version

> > > > > of Ramayana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > >

> > > > > raaj~naH putraa mahaatmaanaH catvaaro jaj~nire pR^ithak |

> > > > > guNava.ntaH anuruupaaH ca rucyaa proSTha padopamaaH || 1-

18-16

> > > > >

> > > > > 16. guNavantaH anuruupaaH cha= virtuous ones, charming,

also;

> > > > > ruchyaa= by brilliance; proSTapada upamaaH= [like puurva

> > bhaadra,

> > > > > uttara bhaadra] stars, in simile; mahaatmaanaH= great

souls;

> > such;

> > > > > raajnaH putraa= kings', sons; chatvaaraH= four of them;

> > jaj~nire

> > > > > pR^ithak= born, separately.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus there are four great-souled sons of Dasharatha, born

on

> > > > separate

> > > > > instances, who are virtuous, charming, and by brilliance

they

> > are

> > > > in

> > > > > similitude with two stars of each of the asterisms called

> > puurva

> > > > > bhadra and uttara bhaadra. [1-18-16]

> > > > >

> > > > > The word proSTa is cow; pada feet; the feet of a cow. It

is

> > also

> > > > the

> > > > > name for the asterisms puurvaa bhaadra, uttara baadra ,

> > containing

> > > > > stars in the wing of Pegasus, each of which will have two

> > stars,

> > > > and

> > > > > all the four stars make a perfect square. Like the pairs

of

> > stars

> > > > the

> > > > > brother also move in pairs – Rama, Lakshmana – Bharata,

> > Shatrughna.

> > > > >

> > > > > The epithet mahaa aatmanaH high-souled ones is though

> > negligible

> > > > for

> > > > > peripheral reading, it is explained as: Rama is one such,

as

> he

> > > > > undertakes sva dharma anuSThaana ; Lakshmana by his

sheSatva

> > > > > j~naana ; Bharata by his bhagavat paara tantrya ; and

> > Shatrughna by

> > > > > his bhaagavata paaratantrya.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

Learn to depend on the originals - and NOT on transilations! Alas -

when will you learn to do this! The transilations has done enough

damage to indian knowledge as a whole - that it is time to go back to

the originals and see things in their own light.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shjri Sreenadhji,

> Namaskar!

> 1. My post is actually in reply to a post of Shri Kedarntah on a

> different forum though he is a member of this forum as well!

> Instead of giving him my own translation of the original sholkas of

> the Ramayana, it was better to quote to him the translation from

the

> Gita Press edition, since he could have attributed bias to my

> translation whereas he could not level such charges against Gita

> Press translators!

> 2. As and when you upload the original sholkas, please upload the

> Gita Press translation as well, so that people can draw their own

> conclusions!

> Regards,

> AKK

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > Please stop this irrelevant words and type the quote in

Sanskrit

> > with meaning, convert it to a pdf file and upload it in files

> > section. Of course if you can't do that, wait, I will be doing it

> for

> > you in a day or two.

> > Note: Actually all these sign related discussions, I was

> amending

> > to the last. But as usual with your unsystematic approach, this

> too

> > you are turning upside down. Please learn to be patient and

> approach

> > the subject systematically - instead of quoting a single or two

> > slokas and projecting - 'I know all' attitude! As of the quotes -

> I

> > will try to type them and upload them in the files section

> possibly

> > by day after tomorrow.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Sreenadhji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > It appears you have not read my post fully. The relevant words

> are:

> > > < I am quoting the exact English translation, including the

> words

> > in

> > > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

> (Balakandam)

> > > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita Press

> > > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition>

> > >

> > > Thus the English translation as well has been quoted " word for

> > word "

> > > from the Gita Press edition itself! In other words, these

> > > (translation words) are not my words but the words of Gita

> Press,

> > > Gorakhkpur, people, who are supposed to be more well versed

than

> a

> > > layman like me!

> > >

> > > These (Gita Press) editions contain the original sanskrit

> sholkas

> > as

> > > well but I have not included them since English transliteration

> > > makes a mess of the pronunciation of Sanskrti words!

> > > I have also made it clear in my post that even the Sanskrit

> > shlokas

> > > of the Gita Press edition, which they have translated into

> English,

> > > are also correct since they tally in to-to with that of

> Chaukhamba

> > > edition.

> > > Pl. read my post again!

> > > With regards,

> > > AKK

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kaul ji,

> > > > ==>

> > > > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata in

> > Mina,

> > > > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

> days)

> > > to

> > > > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > > > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in

> Mina

> > and

> > > > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both of

> them

> > > > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

> months

> > > to

> > > > Bharata!

> > > > <==

> > > > Neither the available slokas, nor their meaning - supports

> your

> > > > argument. This is an exmple of intentional

misinterpretation!!

> I

> > > agree

> > > > to the fact that the versed mentioning signs could be an

> > > > interpolation, but the meaning you provide for the well known

> > > slokas

> > > > are nothing but stupidity and charletinism of Tropical

system -

>

> > > with

> > > > no sincerity in treating the subject at hand involved!! How

> can it

> > > > happen to you?! Please correct this - and let us go by

correct

> and

> > > > exact meaning of the sloka.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar

> Krishen

> > > Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic_research_institute , " Avtar

> Krishen

> > > > > Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Kedarnath ji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > >

> > > > > You have said

> > > > > <Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of astrology

> has

> > > been

> > > > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available the

> > > Ramayana

> > > > > available to us.>

> > > > >

> > > > > You are right! Aspersions of stupidity and lack of

> knowledge

> > of

> > > > > astrology (actually both astronomy and astrology!) has been

> > cast

> > > on

> > > > > Valmiki! It is for you to find out as to who has done so!

> > > > >

> > > > > I am quoting the exact English translation, including the

> > words

> > > in

> > > > > brackets, as it is, of the relevant shlokas of Book I,

> > > (Balakandam)

> > > > > Chapter/canto 18 of the Valmiki Ramayana from the Gita

Press

> > > > > edition, supposed to be the most authentic edition, as they

> > have

> > > not

> > > > > printed/published quite a few chapters/cantos in the

> > > last " Kanda "

> > > > > presuming that they were spurious! Obviously, it means

that

> > > what

> > > > > they have published is without doubt from the original

> > Ramanaya!

> > > > > Similarly, it cannot be said that they have made the

> > > translations in

> > > > > a haphazard manner since the translators were well equipped

> > > scholars

> > > > > of our shostras!

> > > > > Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Gita Press Ramayana

> > (both

> > > > > with Hindi and English translations) have already been sold

> by

> > > them!

> > > > >

> > > > > I may also mention in the passing that the original

Sanskrit

> > > verses

> > > > > of the Gita Press Ramayana more or less tally exactly with

> the

> > > one

> > > > > publihed by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, Varanasi, in their 1957

> > > > > edition! Thus it gets doubly confirmed that the Gita Press

> > > edition

> > > > > is quite an quthentic one:

> > > > >

> > > > > The relevant sholkas are:

> > > > > (Verses 8 to 11) " On the ninth lunar day (of the bright

> > > fortnight) of

> > > > > Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the

> > > sacrifices)

> > > > > when the asterism Punarvasu (presided over by Aditi) was in

> the

> > > > > ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz. the Sun,

Mars,

> > > Saturn,

> > > > > Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the

> > > zodiacal

> > > > > signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or

> Libra,

> > > Karka

> > > > > or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in

> > > > > conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of

> > > Karka,

> > > > > mother Kausalya (the eldest wife of Dasharatha) gave birth

> to a

> > > > > highly blessed son named Sri Rama " .

> > > > > (Verse 13) " (Next) through (the womb of)Kaikeyi (the

> youngest

> > > wife

> > > > > of King Dasharatha) was born Bharatha, possessed of true

> > valour,

> > > who

> > > > > actually represented a quarter of Lord Vishnu and was

> adorned

> > > with

> > > > > all (divine) virtues..

> > > > > (Verse 15) " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the

> > > constellation

> > > > > Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the

> > zodiacal

> > > > > sing of Pisces; while the twin sons of Sumitra were born

> when

> > > the

> > > > > constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had

> > > reached

> > > > > the meridian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karka (Cancer)

> > > > > (Verse 21) " The king further performed the naming ceremony

> (with

> > > > > respect to his sons) on completing eleven days (after the

> birth

> > > of

> > > > > Lakshamana and Shatrugana or thirteen days after the advent

> of

> > > Shri

> > > > > Rama, which took place two days earlier)

> > > > >

> > > > > There are quite a few astronomically impossible

> commbinations

> > in

> > > > > these sholkas and these are:

> > > > > 1. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and His Moon in

> Karka,

> > it

> > > > > cannot be Shukla paksha Namvmi and also the Moon in

> Punarvasu

> > > > > simultaneously.

> > > > > 2. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha and that of Bharata

> in

> > > Mina,

> > > > > Bharata is either younger by eleven months (and not jut two

> > > days) to

> > > > > Shri Rama or elder to Shri Rama!

> > > > > 3. If the sun of Shri Rama is in Mesha, that of Bharata in

> Mina

> > > and

> > > > > that of Lakshamana and Shatrugasna in Karka (Cancer) both

of

> > > them

> > > > > are younger by four months to Shri Rama and at least three

> > > months to

> > > > > Bharata!

> > > > >

> > > > > Personally, I would not ascribe such a non-sensensical and

> > > > > meaningless astrological or astronomical knowledge to

> Valmiki

> > > Rishi

> > > > > but it appears to be the doing of some " followers of

> > > Varahamihira

> > > > > the greatest charlatan " to introduce such interpolations in

> the

> > > > > Ramayana just to make a common man subservient to their

> designs

> > > by

> > > > > telling them that even Shri Rama was " governed " by

predctive

> > > > > jyotishis! For that matter, only a few days back, in the

> > > Hindustan

> > > > > (Hindi edition), one of the jyoitishis had said that Shri

> > Rama's

> > > > > existence couldnot be doubted since we have His horoscopes

> in

> > > > > several Jantris!

> > > > >

> > > > > It is thus obvious that as far as Valmiki Rishis himself

was

> > > > > concerned, he never bothered about the planetary

> combinations

> > of

> > > > > Bhagwan Rama etc. since there was no such fear psychosis

> then,

> > > as

> > > > > otherwise, if at all he had mentioned the horoscope or at

> least

> > > even

> > > > > the Janma nakshatra of Bhagwan Rama in the Ramayana

himself,

> he

> > > > > woulde not have made such a mess!

> > > > >

> > > > > It all proves beyond all the reasonable (and even

> > unreasonable!)

> > > > > doubts that there was no such malady like " Vedic astrology "

> in

> > > India

> > > > > at the time of Bhagwan Rama!

> > > > > With regards,

> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > > vedic_research_institute , " prakruthipremi "

> > > > > <smartxpark@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > namaste,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Aspersions of stupidity and lack of knowledge of

astrology

> > has

> > > been

> > > > > > cast on Valmiki - the blessed soul that made available

the

> > > Ramayana

> > > > > > available to us.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One of the aspersion is the the birth star of Bharatha.

It

> is

> > > a

> > > > > great

> > > > > > tribute to the people - Brahmins of India that have

> preserved

> > > this

> > > > > > much against possible conflicts with the knowledge they

> had.

> > > They

> > > > > did

> > > > > > not junk the greatest document of history of the greatest

> > > personage

> > > > > > we are blesssed to have Sri.Rama.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As a result of this preservation without doctoring there

is

> > > > > > possibility of more truths emanating.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One very significant possibility for research:-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is the birth of Bharatha in the southern hemisphere? His

> > > mother was

> > > > > > Kaikeyi - Was she a Mayan princess? And did she go to her

> > > parent's

> > > > > > home for delivery?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.astroppo.com/historyastronomy.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The following web adresss is that of Valmiki Ramayana put

> up

> > > Sri

> > > > > Desi

> > > > > > Raju Hanumantha Rao - This site has 6,78,827 visits since

> > > October

> > > > > 11,

> > > > > > 1998.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In this - there is thesis that Bharatha was born 12

months

> > > later

> > > > > > according to a German which is not mentioned in Valmiki

> > > Ramayana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Advances can be made only if the base logical premise is

> > > Valmiki

> > > > > will

> > > > > > not lie - He is talking about Sri Rama without an agenda

> > except

> > > > > > abuydaya (prosperity) for the future.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga18/bala_18_frame.htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-

8

> > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

> 10

> > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam

||

> 1-

> > > 18-11

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> > > completion;

> > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed

by;

> > > tataH=

> > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre

> naavamike

> > > tithau=

> > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi

> > > daivatye=

> > > > > star

> > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi;

> panchasu

> > > > > graheSu

> > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own,

> highest,

> > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak

patiH

> > > indunaa

> > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon,

along

> > > with;

> > > > > pra

> > > > > > udyamane= when raising – ascending, advancing daytime –

> > abhijit

> > > > > > lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds',

> lord

> > > > > > [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds,

adored;

> > > divya

> > > > > > lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with;

viSNoH=

> > > > > Vishnu's;

> > > > > > artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam=

> > greatly

> > > > > > blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> delight

> > of;

> > > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

> armed;

> > > rakta

> > > > > > oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced;

> > > raamam=

> > > > > Rama

> > > > > > as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by

and

> > > then in

> > > > > > the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month

> [April-

> > > May,]

> > > > > > when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is

> Aditi,

> > > where

> > > > > > the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in

the

> > > > > > ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun,

> Mars,

> > > > > > Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position,

> when

> > > > > > Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is

> > > > > advancing,

> > > > > > then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the

divine

> > > > > > attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate

> lips,

> > > voice

> > > > > > like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku

> > > dynasty,

> > > > > > who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly

> > blessed

> > > > > > epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By this configuration of stars the supreme merits of Rama

> are

> > > > > > indicated. atra saÕvastara mukha utt˜yaõa vasanta caitra

> m˜sa

> > > þukla

> > > > > > pakÿa deva nakÿatra diva abhijit lagna puõya nakÿatr˜d

> > utk®ÿ÷a

> > > k˜le

> > > > > > kark˜÷aka lagne uccasya graha pañcake guru candra yoge

þrŸ

> > r˜ma

> > > > > > utpatti× | tasya sarva utk®ÿ÷at˜m sakala kaly˜õa guõa

> > > abhiramat˜m

> > > > > > sakala þiÿ÷a ˜draõŸya sampattim mah˜ par˜kramam ca

s¨citam

> |

> > > > > > dharmaakuutam.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The words viSNoH artham half of Vishnu- are to be taken

as

> > > half of

> > > > > > the fruit of ritual where Vedic ritual itself is pervaded

> by

> > > > > Vishnu.

> > > > > > The fruit of ritual is obtained in the shape of dessert,

> and

> > > > > Kausalya

> > > > > > consumed half of it, but it is not half of Vishnu as he is

> > > > > > illimitable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kausalyaa shushubhe tena putreNa amita tejasaa |

> > > > > > yathaa vareNa devaanaam aditiH vajra paaNinaa || 1-18-12

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 12. Kausalya; a+mita tejasaa= one with unlimited

> > resplendence;

> > > tena

> > > > > > putreNa= by that, son; devaanaam vareNa= among gods, the

> best

> > > one;

> > > > > > vajra paaNinaa= by Thunderbolt, in hand [wielder -

Indra];

> > > adithiH

> > > > > > yathaa shushubhe= Lady Aditi, as with, shone forth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kausalya shone forth with such a son whose resplendence

is

> > > > > unlimited,

> > > > > > as with lady Aditi who once stood out with her son Indra,

> the

> > > best

> > > > > > one among gods. [1-18-12]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > > >

> > > > > > bharato naama kaikeyyaam jaj~ne satya paraakramaH |

> > > > > > saakSaat viSNoH caturtha bhaagaH sarvaiH samudito guNaiH

> || 1-

> > > 18-13

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 13. satya paraakramaH= truthfulness, as his valour;

> saakshaat

> > > > > viSNoH=

> > > > > > manifest, Vishnu's; chatur bhaagaH= fourth, component;

> > sarvaiH

> > > > > guNaiH

> > > > > > samuditaH= with all, merits, embodied with ; Bharata;

naama

> > > > > > kaikeyyaam jaj~ne= named, to Queen Kaikeyi, born to.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Queen Kaikeyi gave birth to Bharata, one embodied with

all

> > > merits,

> > > > > > and whose truthfulness itself is his valour and who is

> fourth

> > > > > > component of manifest Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-13]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fraction indicated here like 'one fourth of Vishnu'

> etc

> > > may be

> > > > > > reckoned as the share of the dessert consumed by the

> queens,

> > > but

> > > > > not

> > > > > > as a cleaved portion of Vishnu as he is an indivisible

> > entity.

> > > Here

> > > > > > it is half of one-fourth i.e., one-eighth of dessert

given

> to

> > > > > Kaikeyi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > > >

> > > > > > atha laxmaNa shatrughnau sumitraa ajanayat sutau |

> > > > > > viirau sarva astra kushalau viSNoH ardha samanvitau | 1-

18-

> 14

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 14. atha= then; Queen Sumitra; viiraau= valiant ones;

> sarva

> > > astra

> > > > > > kushalau= all, weaponry, experts; viSNoH= Vishnu's;

artha=

> > > essence,

> > > > > > epitome; samanvitou= those that are embodied with;

> Lakshmana;

> > > > > > Shatrughna; sutou ajanayat= to sons, gave birth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Queen Sumitra then gave birth to two sons who are the

> embodied

> > > > > > epitomes of Vishnu, namely Lakshmana, and Shatrughna, who

> are

> > > > > valiant

> > > > > > ones and experts in all kinds of weaponry. [1-18-14]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > > >

> > > > > > puShye jaataH tu bharato mIna lagne prasanna dhIH |

> > > > > > saarpe jaatau tu saumitrI kuLIre abhyudite ravau || 1-18-

15

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 15. prasanna dhiiH= level, headed one – guileless, fair-

> > minded;

> > > > > > Bharata; pushye miina lagne jaataH= under Pushyami star,

> in

> > > Pisces

> > > > > > [of Zodiac,] born; saumitrii= sons of Sumitra [Lakshmana,

> > > > > > Shatrughna]; saarpe kuliire= under star presided by

serpent

> > > > > > [aaSreSa,] in Cancer [of Zodiac]; abhyudite ravau= when

> > > rising, of

> > > > > > Sun- when sun is rising, i.e., on next day of Rama's

> birth,

> > > tenth

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Chaitra; jaatau= they are born.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fair-minded Bharata is born under Pisces where

puSyami

> is

> > > the

> > > > > > star of day, and the sons of Sumitra, namely Lakshmana

and

> > > > > Shatrughna

> > > > > > are born under Cancer, where aaSreSa is the star of the

> day

> > > and

> > > > > when

> > > > > > sun is rising. [1-18-15]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rama is born on the ninth day of Chaitra month, and

> Bharata

> > is

> > > born

> > > > > > in the earlier part of next day the tenth of Chaitra,

> earlier

> > > to

> > > > > his

> > > > > > younger brothers, and then Lakshmana and Shatrughna are

> born

> > > on the

> > > > > > later part of the day.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 'Pushya is the name of a month; but here it means the

> eighth

> > > > > mansion.

> > > > > > The ninth is called Aslesh, or the snake. It is evident

> from

> > > this

> > > > > > that Bharata, though his birth is mentioned before that

of

> > the

> > > > > twins,

> > > > > > was the youngest of the four brothers and Rama's junior

by

> > > eleven

> > > > > > months' Schlegel. The eleven-month gap between Rama and

> > > Bharata is

> > > > > > unapparent in the words of verse. This may be from some

> other

> > > > > version

> > > > > > of Ramayana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Verse Locator

> > > > > >

> > > > > > raaj~naH putraa mahaatmaanaH catvaaro jaj~nire pR^ithak |

> > > > > > guNava.ntaH anuruupaaH ca rucyaa proSTha padopamaaH || 1-

> 18-16

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 16. guNavantaH anuruupaaH cha= virtuous ones, charming,

> also;

> > > > > > ruchyaa= by brilliance; proSTapada upamaaH= [like puurva

> > > bhaadra,

> > > > > > uttara bhaadra] stars, in simile; mahaatmaanaH= great

> souls;

> > > such;

> > > > > > raajnaH putraa= kings', sons; chatvaaraH= four of them;

> > > jaj~nire

> > > > > > pR^ithak= born, separately.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus there are four great-souled sons of Dasharatha, born

> on

> > > > > separate

> > > > > > instances, who are virtuous, charming, and by brilliance

> they

> > > are

> > > > > in

> > > > > > similitude with two stars of each of the asterisms called

> > > puurva

> > > > > > bhadra and uttara bhaadra. [1-18-16]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The word proSTa is cow; pada feet; the feet of a cow. It

> is

> > > also

> > > > > the

> > > > > > name for the asterisms puurvaa bhaadra, uttara baadra ,

> > > containing

> > > > > > stars in the wing of Pegasus, each of which will have two

> > > stars,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > all the four stars make a perfect square. Like the pairs

> of

> > > stars

> > > > > the

> > > > > > brother also move in pairs – Rama, Lakshmana – Bharata,

> > > Shatrughna.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The epithet mahaa aatmanaH high-souled ones is though

> > > negligible

> > > > > for

> > > > > > peripheral reading, it is explained as: Rama is one such,

> as

> > he

> > > > > > undertakes sva dharma anuSThaana ; Lakshmana by his

> sheSatva

> > > > > > j~naana ; Bharata by his bhagavat paara tantrya ; and

> > > Shatrughna by

> > > > > > his bhaagavata paaratantrya.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>