Lagna lord in 11th House

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on "LL in 11th house" is given below.

 

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Lagna lord in 11th House

--

 

If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many

ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good habits and would be

righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy and would be very

knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be troubled by extra earnings.

He will live a good life. He will have good children - especially male child.

He will never have to worry about anything mentioned above.

If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains

in many ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and habits. He

may have many wives.

- Parasara Hora

11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations

`monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various professions, many jobs,

multiple business, or from properties. Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial

results to 11th as well as 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd

from those houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and

fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association with the house of

love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder 11th is supposed to signify

the second marriage. Since 11th signifies the second marriage, it is natural to

derive the result `many wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in

the above sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It just

indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life comfort, women being

just one of them as per ancient view. Thus for a righteous individual in modern

life, the same may not be of much relevance - in a society that does not

appreciate multiple relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with

a single wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted to him,

and having multiple relations is there. But such relations will never become a

burden or trouble to him, even if the same is present.

Another version of the above sloka of Parasara is also available,

which is quoted earlier as well -

If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would

be troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous; will have

many good qualities and many wives.

- Parasara Hora

Here the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in

11th)-

* He would be troubled by extra earnings!

* He will have many wives.

The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra

earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is wrong, we

should verify this result. Let us see what others have to say about Lagna lord

in 11th house.

If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will

have good children (especially male child), and would be very knowledgeable. He

would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never have to worry (about anything

mentioned above).

- Meenaraja Hora

As mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results

especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the derivation, he will have

a good life. `Good children' is also a natural derivation since the lagna lord

in 11th aspects 5th and bestows good results to the same. In ancient times, son

was considered more auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition

of the family (especially in north India

where paternal hereditary system was popular). Thus good children and happiness

from the same is actually meant to say `good son' and not `good daughters'

under the above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male

nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India,

maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus daughter was

considered equally auspicious. In the current society - this distinction is

irrelevant and we can resort to the derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the

native will have many good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he

want son's he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have them,

if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children results.

Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja

with slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.

If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will

have good children (especially male child), and would be very knowledgeable. He

would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never have to worry (about anything

mentioned above).

- Hora Pradeepam

While going through quotes available related to `House Base'

result derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam,

Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the quotes given by

Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly understandable and logical, since

we have already noticed that even though Parasara reflects more understanding

about the underlying principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its

influence on the native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule

alone but instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an approach

cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is trying to learn `House Base'

result derivation technique in its own context. That is why even though

Parasara is absolutely justified for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are

given more importance. Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations

sticks to the context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach.

Since here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result derivation

technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that of Parasara,

even though the truth remains that Parasara has better understanding of the

context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage of more repute, while Meenaraja is

just an ancient scholar king of Gujarat.

Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to

Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and lived after the

period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to some as `Yavana' as well. Both

of them draw their knowledge from the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or

`Yavaneswara', an ancient scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a

sage and lived prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara'

and we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC 1400 by

Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived prior to BC 1400.

Certainly this period is far prior to that of Greek invasion. Thus it is clear

that the word `Yavana' does not refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we

are going though the texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora'

(AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After AD 250) which are available even

today, we find that -

* There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts

* Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek

gods

* These texts reflect a

good understanding of Upanishads and Sankhya system of knowledge

* Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people well

versed in that language.

* Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT

found in Greece.

* There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of

astrology in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and available

quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the same.

But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but

instead had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who didn't

even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian scholars who neither

studied such texts in depth nor derived their own conclusions (but instead

parroted the words of western scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana

indian astrology is borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead -

Fools! What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true that the

`Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and even BPHS originated

outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident from many of the unique words

used in such texts.

* Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates that

that they must have originated outside current India is present in all these

works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha', `Apoklima' and many more.

We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?;

or Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other possibility? Please

note that -

* This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge

originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary universe.

* The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other

tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow the Vedic system.

 

Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -

Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered

this knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are respected

like sages. If the same is possible, why not the people with the `Sacred

Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and lives within India)?

- Garga Hora

Note that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha',

the ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is on the

other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never followed the Vedic system,

but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The deity symbols found in Harappa are

seated in `Moolabanddha' yogic posture, most scholars agree that it represents

Siva. Further `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per

Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan city happened

around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word `Mlecchha' which originally used to

refer to `Meluhan' people, must have gained some degenerated meaning, due to

the advent of Jain (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be

to the `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who followed their

system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.

Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are

`Yavana Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana Grandha'? Do we

have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text mentioned even in the epic

Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for this word, as quoted below -

Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause

of creation; those texts in which

the difference between Dharma and Adharma is clarified without considering

Sruti or Smriti; such texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a

Dharamic system that is different from the one that is depicted in `Sruti', it

is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.

- Sukra Neeti

`Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama'

and `Nigama' texts; i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later

period the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in the

ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use to refer to the

original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva Agama', the Tantric system

followed in civilizations like Harappa. `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this

side of Sarasvati river, but on the other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its

`Saiva Agama' system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated there

is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the people lived

there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).

 

Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic civilization

(Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the region between the rivers of

Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was already dried out (Around BC 1900) and the

Harappan civilization collapsed. Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of

worshiping Ahur Mazda (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming

popular, and Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of

Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of Nirayana astrology was outside `Vedic stream',

clearly non-vedic. Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the

revered god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain temples,

Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and the turbulence

of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario, if you find words such as

Yavana - to whom it refers to?

* It refers to the people lived

outside India. (In the past this word was used to refer initially to Harappans,

then Persians (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)

* The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic culture

(The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they believed in god,

even though followed non-vedic tradition)

If this is the scenario, and if we could find words of seemingly

Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in astrological

literature of by gone past, in even books of BC 1400 origin such as Garga Hora

and Parasara Hora - to whom these words and knowledge should be attributed to?

To Greeks - who came to India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the

great Asura culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya), Persia

(Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to attribute these

non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the Asura culture. Note how

Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante =>Drekkana and gets adopts

back into Sanskrit in its new form, but with the same original meaning 1/3 rd

of a Sign! Note that the Indian meaning of many of such words are different

from the phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus is

Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in indian astrology

texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for many words. Thus instead

of resorting to feeble theories of Greek origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology'

means `Greek astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility - The

Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and Persia) prior to

the Greece must have contributed much to the knowledge and vocabulary of both

Greeks and Indians. Indians are indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture

for this great knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to

vedic civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama Sastra'

(Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by Saiva Agama tradition

of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many other places from there), then to

Jain with in India, and from them to South India.

Sphujidwaja and

Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian

religion (Gujarat is known as Zourashtra - due to this association with

Persia), the rudiments of Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About

`Sphujidhwaja Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -

* There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks

* These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.

* There is no similar work available or known in Greek

* These books is not written in Greek language.

* These books does not mention any Greek teacher or god

* These books never mention that they are translations (they are

original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)

But still some stupid people argue that these books are

translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing that the whole of

Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above literary evidence regarding

those books and the history of the world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by

western ego - they have to prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came

from Greece to India - and many Indian Vedic fools are with them now! What a catastrophe - to

the knowledge India reveres! Note that the Vedas are revered but not the fools.

Let us try to restate the authority and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of

`Agama Sastra' (Non-Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically

present the same - before those who really want to learn.

We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of

discussion - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth it.

Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.

The 11th house signifies

things such as - gain, elder brother, left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus

the placement of lagna lord in 10th generates special importance to the

derivations related to the same.

- by Sreenadh (sreesog)

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Love,

Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh, Thank you for the history lesson in this thread. It has been very informative and useful. I hope that you will add more of this type of information in the future. When examining the whole tree it is easy to overlook the root that feeds and supports it. Thank you. Peace. NickieOn Oct 4, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Sreenadh wrote:Dear All,   The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on "LL in 11th house" is given below.  ================================================Lagna lord in 11th House--If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good habits and would be righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy and would be very knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be troubled by extra earnings. He will live a good life. He will have good children - especially male child. He will never have to worry about anything mentioned above.If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains in many ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and habits. He may have many wives.- Parasara Hora11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations `monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various professions, many jobs, multiple business, or from properties. Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial results to 11th as well as 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd from those houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association with the house of love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder 11th is supposed to signify the second marriage. Since 11th signifies the second marriage, it is natural to derive the result `many wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in the above sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It just indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life comfort, women being just one of them as per ancient view. Thus for a righteous individual in modern life, the same may not be of much relevance - in a society that does not appreciate multiple relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with a single wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted to him, and having multiple relations is there. But such relations will never become a burden or trouble to him, even if the same is present.Another version of the above sloka of Parasara is also available, which is quoted earlier as well -If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would be troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous; will have many good qualities and many wives.- Parasara HoraHere the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in 11th)-* He would be troubled by extra earnings!* He will have many wives.The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is wrong, we should verify this result. Let us see what others have to say about Lagna lord in 11th house.If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have good children (especially male child), and would be very knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never have to worry (about anything mentioned above).- Meenaraja HoraAs mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the derivation, he will have a good life. `Good children' is also a natural derivation since the lagna lord in 11th aspects 5th and bestows good results to the same. In ancient times, son was considered more auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition of the family (especially in north India where paternal hereditary system was popular). Thus good children and happiness from the same is actually meant to say `good son' and not `good daughters' under the above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India, maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus daughter was considered equally auspicious. In the current society - this distinction is irrelevant and we can resort to the derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the native will have many good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he want son's he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have them, if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children results.Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja with slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have good children (especially male child), and would be very knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never have to worry (about anything mentioned above).- Hora PradeepamWhile going through quotes available related to `House Base' result derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam, Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the quotes given by Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly understandable and logical, since we have already noticed that even though Parasara reflects more understanding about the underlying principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its influence on the native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule alone but instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an approach cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is trying to learn `House Base' result derivation technique in its own context. That is why even though Parasara is absolutely justified for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are given more importance. Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations sticks to the context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach. Since here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result derivation technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that of Parasara, even though the truth remains that Parasara has better understanding of the context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage of more repute, while Meenaraja is just an ancient scholar king of Gujarat.Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and lived after the period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to some as `Yavana' as well. Both of them draw their knowledge from the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or `Yavaneswara', an ancient scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a sage and lived prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara' and we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC 1400 by Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived prior to BC 1400. Certainly this period is far prior to that of Greek invasion. Thus it is clear that the word `Yavana' does not refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we are going though the texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora'  (AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After AD 250) which are available even today, we find that -* There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts* Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek gods*  These texts reflect a good understanding of Upanishads and Sankhya system of knowledge* Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people well versed in that language.* Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT found in Greece.* There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of astrology in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and available quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the same. But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but instead had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who didn't even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian scholars who neither studied such texts in depth nor derived their own conclusions (but instead parroted the words of western scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana indian astrology is borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead - Fools! What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true that the `Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and even BPHS originated outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident from many of the unique words used in such texts.       * Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates that that they must have originated outside current India is present in all these works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha', `Apoklima' and many more.We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?; or Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other possibility? Please note that -* This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary universe.* The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow the Vedic system.Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered this knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are respected like sages. If the same is possible, why not the people with the `Sacred Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and lives within India)?- Garga HoraNote that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha', the ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is on the other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never followed the Vedic system, but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The deity symbols found in Harappa are seated in `Moolabanddha' yogic posture, most scholars agree that it represents Siva. Further `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan city happened around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word `Mlecchha' which originally used to refer to `Meluhan' people, must have gained some degenerated meaning, due to the advent of Jain (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be to the `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who followed their system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are `Yavana Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana Grandha'? Do we have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text mentioned even in the epic Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for this word, as quoted below -Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause of       creation; those texts in which the difference between Dharma and Adharma is clarified without considering Sruti or Smriti; such texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a Dharamic system that is different from the one that is depicted in `Sruti', it is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.- Sukra Neeti`Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama' and `Nigama' texts; i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later period the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in the ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use to refer to the original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva Agama', the Tantric system followed in civilizations like Harappa. `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this side of Sarasvati river, but on the other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its `Saiva Agama' system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated there is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the people lived there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).    Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic civilization (Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the region between the rivers of Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was already dried out (Around BC 1900) and the Harappan civilization collapsed. Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of worshiping Ahur Mazda (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming popular, and Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of  Nirayana astrology was outside `Vedic stream', clearly non-vedic. Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the revered god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain temples, Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and the turbulence of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario, if you find words such as Yavana - to whom it refers to?* It refers to the people lived outside India. (In the past this word was used to refer initially to Harappans, then Persians (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)* The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic culture (The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they believed in god, even though followed non-vedic tradition)If this is the scenario, and if we could find words of seemingly Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in astrological literature of by gone past, in even books of BC 1400 origin such as Garga Hora and Parasara Hora - to whom these words and knowledge should be attributed to? To Greeks - who came to India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the great Asura culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya), Persia (Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to attribute these non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the Asura culture. Note how Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante =>Drekkana and gets adopts back into Sanskrit in its new form, but with the same original meaning 1/3 rd of a Sign! Note that the Indian meaning of many of such words are different from the phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus is Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in indian astrology texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for many words. Thus instead of resorting to feeble theories of Greek origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology' means `Greek astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility - The Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and Persia) prior to the Greece must have contributed much to the knowledge and vocabulary of both Greeks and Indians. Indians are indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture for this great knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to vedic civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama Sastra' (Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by Saiva Agama tradition of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many other places from there), then to Jain with in India, and from them to South India.       Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian religion (Gujarat is known as Zourashtra - due to this association with Persia), the rudiments of Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About `Sphujidhwaja Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -* There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks* These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.* There is no similar work available or known in Greek* These books is not written in Greek language.* These books does not mention any Greek teacher or god* These books never mention that they are translations (they are original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)But still some stupid people argue that these books are translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing that the whole of Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above literary evidence regarding those books and the history of the world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by western ego - they have to prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came from Greece to India - and many Indian Vedic fools   are with them now! What a catastrophe - to the knowledge India reveres! Note that the Vedas are revered but not the fools. Let us try to restate the authority and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of `Agama Sastra' (Non-Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically present the same - before those who really want to learn.We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of discussion - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth it. Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.   The 11th house signifies things such as - gain, elder brother, left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 10th generates special importance to the derivations related to the same.- by Sreenadh (sreesog )================================================Love,Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Nickie ji,

Thanks. Yes, there is much information of this type to be discussed.

I will present and discuss them as the time and context allows.

Note: My worry is - there is much to say, but not enough time and

patience with us. A total re-structuring and re-organizing is

necessary. But we have to hurry, there is not enough time left. Let

us try our best in bit of time we have with us - the story continues -

existence evolves...

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, Nickie Jan Scott

<n.scott wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh,

>

> Thank you for the history lesson in this thread. It has been

very

> informative and useful. I hope that you will add more of this type

of

> information in the future. When examining the whole tree it is

easy

> to overlook the root that feeds and supports it. Thank you. Peace.

> Nickie

> On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Sreenadh wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on " LL in

> > 11th house " is given below.

> >

> > ================================================

> > Lagna lord in 11th House

> > --

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many

> > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good

habits

> > and would be righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy

and

> > would be very knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be

> > troubled by extra earnings. He will live a good life. He will

have

> > good children - especially male child. He will never have to

worry

> > about anything mentioned above.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains in

many

> > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and

habits.

> > He may have many wives.

> >

> > - Parasara Hora

> >

> > 11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations

> > `monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various

> > professions, many jobs, multiple business, or from properties.

> > Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial results to 11th as well as

> > 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd from those

> > houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and

> > fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association

with

> > the house of love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder

11th

> > is supposed to signify the second marriage. Since 11th signifies

> > the second marriage, it is natural to derive the result `many

> > wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in the above

> > sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It

> > just indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life

> > comfort, women being just one of them as per ancient view. Thus

for

> > a righteous individual in modern life, the same may not be of

much

> > relevance - in a society that does not appreciate multiple

> > relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with a

single

> > wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted

to

> > him, and having multiple relations is there. But such relations

> > will never become a burden or trouble to him, even if the same

is

> > present.

> >

> > Another version of the above sloka of Parasara is also

available,

> > which is quoted earlier as well -

> >

> > If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would be

> > troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous;

> > will have many good qualities and many wives.

> >

> > - Parasara Hora

> >

> > Here the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in

> > 11th)-

> >

> > * He would be troubled by extra earnings!

> >

> > * He will have many wives.

> >

> > The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra

> > earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is

> > wrong, we should verify this result. Let us see what others have

to

> > say about Lagna lord in 11th house.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have

> > good children (especially male child), and would be very

> > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will

never

> > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).

> >

> > - Meenaraja Hora

> >

> > As mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results

> > especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the

derivation,

> > he will have a good life. `Good children' is also a natural

> > derivation since the lagna lord in 11th aspects 5th and bestows

> > good results to the same. In ancient times, son was considered

more

> > auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition of

the

> > family (especially in north India where paternal hereditary

system

> > was popular). Thus good children and happiness from the same is

> > actually meant to say `good son' and not `good daughters' under

the

> > above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male

> > nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India,

> > maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus

> > daughter was considered equally auspicious. In the current

society

> > - this distinction is irrelevant and we can resort to the

> > derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the native will have many

> > good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he want

son's

> > he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have

them,

> > if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children

> > results.

> >

> > Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja

with

> > slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have

> > good children (especially male child), and would be very

> > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will

never

> > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).

> >

> > - Hora Pradeepam

> >

> > While going through quotes available related to `House Base'

result

> > derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam,

> > Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the

> > quotes given by Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly

> > understandable and logical, since we have already noticed that

even

> > though Parasara reflects more understanding about the underlying

> > principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its influence on

the

> > native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule

alone

> > but instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an

> > approach cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is

trying

> > to learn `House Base' result derivation technique in its own

> > context. That is why even though Parasara is absolutely

justified

> > for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are given more

importance.

> > Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations sticks to the

> > context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach.

Since

> > here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result

derivation

> > technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that

of

> > Parasara, even though the truth remains that Parasara has better

> > understanding of the context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage

of

> > more repute, while Meenaraja is just an ancient scholar king of

> > Gujarat.

> >

> > Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to

> > Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and

> > lived after the period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to

> > some as `Yavana' as well. Both of them draw their knowledge from

> > the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or `Yavaneswara', an ancient

> > scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a sage and lived

> > prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara'

and

> > we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC

1400

> > by Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived

> > prior to BC 1400. Certainly this period is far prior to that of

> > Greek invasion. Thus it is clear that the word `Yavana' does not

> > refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we are going though

the

> > texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora' (AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After

AD

> > 250) which are available even today, we find that -

> >

> > * There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts

> >

> > * Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek

gods

> >

> > * These texts reflect a good understanding of Upanishads and

> > Sankhya system of knowledge

> >

> > * Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people

well

> > versed in that language.

> >

> > * Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT

found

> > in Greece.

> >

> > * There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of

astrology

> > in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and

available

> > quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the same.

> >

> > But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but

instead

> > had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who

> > didn't even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian

> > scholars who neither studied such texts in depth nor derived

their

> > own conclusions (but instead parroted the words of western

> > scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana indian astrology

is

> > borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead - Fools!

> > What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true

that

> > the `Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and

even

> > BPHS originated outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident

> > from many of the unique words used in such texts.

> >

> > * Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates

that

> > that they must have originated outside current India is present

in

> > all these works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha',

> > `Apoklima' and many more.

> >

> > We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?;

or

> > Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other

possibility?

> > Please note that -

> >

> > * This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge

> > originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary

> > universe.

> >

> > * The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other

> > tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow

the

> > Vedic system.

> >

> > Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -

> >

> > Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered this

> > knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are

> > respected like sages. If the same is possible, why not the

people

> > with the `Sacred Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and

lives

> > within India)?

> >

> > - Garga Hora

> >

> > Note that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha',

the

> > ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is

on

> > the other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never

followed

> > the Vedic system, but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The

> > deity symbols found in Harappa are seated in `Moolabanddha'

yogic

> > posture, most scholars agree that it represents Siva. Further

> > `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per

> > Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan

> > city happened around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word

> > `Mlecchha' which originally used to refer to `Meluhan' people,

must

> > have gained some degenerated meaning, due to the advent of Jain

> > (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be to

the

> > `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who

followed

> > their system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.

> >

> > Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are

`Yavana

> > Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana

Grandha'?

> > Do we have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text

mentioned

> > even in the epic Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for

this

> > word, as quoted below -

> >

> > Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause

of

> > creation; those texts in which the difference between Dharma and

> > Adharma is clarified without considering Sruti or Smriti; such

> > texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a

Dharamic

> > system that is different from the one that is depicted in

`Sruti',

> > it is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.

> >

> > - Sukra Neeti

> >

> > `Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama' and `Nigama'

texts;

> > i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later

period

> > the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in

the

> > ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use

to

> > refer to the original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva

> > Agama', the Tantric system followed in civilizations like

Harappa.

> > `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this side of Sarasvati river,

> > but on the other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its `Saiva Agama'

> > system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated

there

> > is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the

> > people lived there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).

> >

> > Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic

> > civilization (Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the

region

> > between the rivers of Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was

already

> > dried out (Around BC 1900) and the Harappan civilization

collapsed.

> > Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of worshiping Ahur

Mazda

> > (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming popular,

and

> > Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of

> > Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of

> > Nirayana astrology was outside `Vedic stream', clearly non-

vedic.

> > Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the

revered

> > god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain

temples,

> > Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and

the

> > turbulence of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario,

if

> > you find words such as Yavana - to whom it refers to?

> >

> > * It refers to the people lived outside India. (In the past this

> > word was used to refer initially to Harappans, then Persians

> > (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)

> >

> > * The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic

culture

> > (The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they

> > believed in god, even though followed non-vedic tradition)

> >

> > If this is the scenario, and if we could find words of seemingly

> > Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in

> > astrological literature of by gone past, in even books of BC

1400

> > origin such as Garga Hora and Parasara Hora - to whom these

words

> > and knowledge should be attributed to? To Greeks - who came to

> > India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the great Asura

> > culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya),

Persia

> > (Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to

attribute

> > these non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the

Asura

> > culture. Note how Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante

> > =>Drekkana and gets adopts back into Sanskrit in its new form,

but

> > with the same original meaning 1/3 rd of a Sign! Note that the

> > Indian meaning of many of such words are different from the

> > phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus

is

> > Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in

indian

> > astrology texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for

> > many words. Thus instead of resorting to feeble theories of

Greek

> > origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology' means `Greek

> > astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility -

The

> > Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and

> > Persia) prior to the Greece must have contributed much to the

> > knowledge and vocabulary of both Greeks and Indians. Indians are

> > indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture for this great

> > knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to

vedic

> > civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama

> > Sastra' (Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by

> > Saiva Agama tradition of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many

> > other places from there), then to Jain with in India, and from

them

> > to South India.

> >

> > Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great

> > astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian religion (Gujarat is known as

> > Zourashtra - due to this association with Persia), the rudiments

of

> > Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About `Sphujidhwaja

> > Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -

> >

> > * There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks

> >

> > * These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.

> >

> > * There is no similar work available or known in Greek

> >

> > * These books is not written in Greek language.

> >

> > * These books does not mention any Greek teacher or god

> >

> > * These books never mention that they are translations (they are

> > original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)

> >

> > But still some stupid people argue that these books are

> > translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing

that

> > the whole of Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above

> > literary evidence regarding those books and the history of the

> > world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by western ego - they have

to

> > prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came from Greece to

> > India - and many Indian Vedic fools are with them now! What a

> > catastrophe - to the knowledge India reveres! Note that the

Vedas

> > are revered but not the fools. Let us try to restate the

authority

> > and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of `Agama Sastra' (Non-

> > Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically present

the

> > same - before those who really want to learn.

> >

> > We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of

discussion

> > - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth

it.

> > Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.

> >

> > The 11th house signifies things such as - gain, elder

brother,

> > left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus the placement of lagna

> > lord in 10th generates special importance to the derivations

> > related to the same.

> >

> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)

> >

> > ================================================

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

History of Astronomy... The Rigveda refers to the 27 constellations associated with the motions of the sun and also the 12 zodiacal divisions of the sky. In 500 AD, Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the earth to spin on its axis and considered the motions of the planets with respect to the sun.Astronomy was mostly stagnant in medieval Europe, but flourished meanwhile in the Arab world. The late 9th century Islamic astronomer al-Farghani wrote extensively on the motion of celestial bodies. His work was translated into Latin in the 12th century. In the late 10th century, a huge observatory was built near Tehran, Persia (now Iran), by the astronomer al-Khujandi, who observed a series of meridian transits of the Sun, which allowed him to calculate the obliquity of the ecliptic. Also in Persia, Omar Khayyam compiled many tables and performed a reformation of the calendar that was more accurate than the Julian and came close to the Gregorian.During the Renaissance, Copernicus proposed a heliocentric model of the Solar System. His work was defended, expanded upon, and corrected by Galileo Galilei and Johannes Kepler. Galileo added the innovation of using telescopes to enhance his observations. Kepler was the first to devise a system that described

correctly the details of the motion of the planets with the Sun at the center. However, Kepler did not succeed in formulating a theory behind the laws he wrote down. It was left to Newton's invention of celestial dynamics and his law of gravitation to finally explain the motions of the planets. Newton also developed the reflecting telescope to further enhance observations.IndiaThere are astronomical references of chronological significance in the Vedas. Some Vedic notices mark the beginning of the year and that of the vernal equinox in Orion; this was the case around 4500 BC. Fire altars, with astronomical basis, have been found in the third millennium cities of

India. The texts that describe their designs are conservatively dated to the first millennium BC, but their contents appear to be much older.Yajnavalkya (perhaps 1800 BC) advanced a 95-year cycle to synchronize the motions of the sun and the moon. A text on Vedic astrology that has been dated to 1350 BC, was written by Lagadha. In 500 AD, Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the earth to spin on its axis and considered the motions of the planets with respect to the sun. Brahmagupta (598-668) was the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain and during his tenure there wrote a text on astronomy, the Brahmasphutasiddhan ta in 628. Bhaskara (1114-1185) was the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain, continuing the mathematical tradition of Brahmagupta. He wrote the Siddhantasiromani which consists of two parts: Goladhyaya (sphere) and Grahaganita (mathematics of the planets). The other important names of astronomers from India are Madhava and Nilakantha.MayaThe Maya calculated the solar year to somewhat greater accuracy than the Gregorian calendar. They made detailed tables for calculating phases of the Moon and the movements of Venus for centuries in the past or future. Astronomy and the measurement of time were vitally important components of Mayan religion.Ancient GreeceGreek philosophers thought of several models to explain the movements

of stars, planets, the Sun and the Moon. Eratosthenes, using the angles of shadows created at widely-separated regions, estimated the circumference of the Earth with great accuracy. Hipparchus made a number of important contributions, including the first measurement of precession and the compilation of the first star catalog. Ptolemy later referred to this work in his important Almagest, which had a lasting effect on astronomy up to the Renaissance.Middle AgesDuring the Middle Ages, astronomy, as most of the sciences, didn't advance much in Europe, and many important works could have been forgotten but for the work of scholars of the Arabic world. However, astronomy remained a part of the academic curriculum. Priests in distant parishes needed elementary astronomical knowledge for calculating the exact date of the Easter. The Arabic world under

Islam had become higly cultured, and many important works of knowledge from ancient Greece were translated into Arabic, used and stored in libraries throughout the area. New works were also written, and even the name of algebra tells us about its origin. In astronomy, Arab scholars also left a legacy, that is easily seen in the names still used for most of the brilliant stars in the sky (see, e.g. Ursa Major).In the late 9th century the Islamic astronomer al-Farghani (Abu'l-Abbas Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Kathir al-Farghani) wrote extensively on the motion of celestial bodies. In the 12th century, his works were translated into Latin, and it is said that Dante got his astronomical knowledge from al-Farghani' s books.Omar Khayyam (Ghiyath al-Din Abu'l-Fath Umar ibn Ibrahim al-Nisaburi al-Khayyami) was a great Persian scientist,

philosopher, and poet who lived from 1048-1131. He compiled many astronomical tables and performed a reformation of the calendar which was more accurate than the Julian and came close to the Gregorian. An amazing feat was his calculation of the year to be 365.24219858156 days long, which is accurate to the 6th decimal place.Meanwhile in Europe, the model from the Greeks most remembered through the Middle Ages was the geocentric model, in which the Earth was in the center of the Universe, with the Sun, Moon and planets each occupying its own concentric sphere. Stars used the outermost one.The Copernican revolutionCopernicus proposed a heliocentric system, in which the Sun was in the center. The model had some flaws, and did not predict the positions of the planets better that the old Ptolemaic system (the version of the geocentric model that

was most accepted), but had its supporters. Two of the most famous supporters were Johannes Kepler and Galileo Galilei.Kepler, using precise naked-eye observations made by Tycho Brahe, discovered the three laws of planetary movement that carry his name (though he published them mixed with some other not-so-correct ideas, and didn't give them the importance that we do).Galileo was not the first one to use the telescope to observe the sky, although he after constructing a 20x refractor telescope he discovered the moons of Jupiter and introduced sunspots to Europe, He is perhaps most famous for his problems with the Catholic Church (though the real history is more complex than usually believed). Galileo's greatest contribution to knowledge was not in astronomy, but in dynamics, where he studied

the motion of objects, but his effort in popularizing the Copernican model was very significant.Physics Marries AstronomyIsaac Newton was the first scientist to marry physics with astronomy, discovering that the same force that causes objects to fall on Earth, causes the motion of planets and the moon. Using his Law of gravity, the laws of Kepler are explained, and the heliocentric system gained a sound physical basis, celestial mechanics was invented. Newton also found out that the white light from the sun can be decomposed into its component colors; this fact is crucial for most of the 20th-century research.Modern AstronomyAt the end of the 19th century it was discovered that, when decomposing the light from the sun, multitude of spectral lines were observed (regions where there was less or no light).

Experiments with hot gases showed that the same lines could be observed in the spectra of gases, specific lines corresponding to unique elements. It was proved that the chemical elements found in the sun (chiefly hydrogen and helium) were also found on Earth. During the 20th century spectrometry (the study of these lines) advanced, especially because of the advent of quantum physics, that was necessary to understand the observations.Although in previous centuries noted astronomers were exclusively male, at the turn of the 20th century women began to play a role in the great discoveries. In this period prior to modern computers, women at the United States Naval Observatory (USNO), Harvard University, and other astronomy research institutions often served as human "computers," whom performed the tedious calculations while scientists performed research

requiring more background knowledge. Many of the discoveries in this period were originally noted by the women "computers" and reported to their supervisors. For example, Henrietta Swan Leavitt discovered the cepheid variable star period-luminosity relation, Annie Jump Cannon organized the stellar spectral types according to stellar temperature, and Maria Mitchell was the first person to discover a comet using a telescope. Some of these women received little or no recognition during their lives due to their lower professional standing in the field of astronomy. And although their discoveries are taught in classrooms around the world, few students of astronomy can attribute the works to their authors.============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =Brilliant is my comment - A rational look - and keeping open mind is very important. Now Constellations are very

important - these are necaasry for all calculations - geo referencing. Space and NASA bound calculations etc are totally irrelevant for earth bound creatures. (I think I already mentioned this in earlier post.)A great site giving simple descriptions ishttp://www.enchante dlearning. com/subjects/ astronomy/ stars/constellat ions.shtmlThis gives constellations seen from the southern hemisphere also. One very interesting constellation is Draco - ============ =="DRACODraco (from the dragon in Greek mythology) is a constellation in the Northern Hemisphere. It is the radiant of the Quadrantids and Draconids (meteor showers). Draco is near the northern celestial pole; the tail

of Draco is between the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper. The brightest star in the Draco is Thuban; it is located in the dragon's tail. (Thuban means "dragon or serpent" in Arabic. Thuban was the Earth's pole star about 5,000 years ago.) The second-brightest star in the Draco is Rastaban (which means "head of the dragon or serpent")."============ =This thuba mentioned is probably "Dhruva". This constellation and the stars are mentioned in the Ramayana.Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Nickie

ji,Thanks. Yes, there is much information of this type to be discussed. I will present and discuss them as the time and context allows. Note: My worry is - there is much to say, but not enough time and patience with us. A total re-structuring and re-organizing is necessary. But we have to hurry, there is not enough time left. Let us try our best in bit of time we have with us - the story continues -existence evolves... Love,Sreenadh , Nickie Jan Scott <n.scott wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh,> > Thank you for the history lesson in this thread. It has been very > informative and useful. I hope that you will add more of this type of > information in the future. When examining the whole tree it is easy > to overlook the root that feeds and

supports it. Thank you. Peace. > Nickie> On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Sreenadh wrote:> > >> > Dear All,> >> > The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on "LL in > > 11th house" is given below.> >> > ================================================> > Lagna lord in 11th House> > --> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good habits > > and would be righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy and > > would be very knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be > > troubled by extra earnings. He will live a good life. He will have > > good children - especially male child. He will never have to worry >

> about anything mentioned above.> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains in many > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and habits. > > He may have many wives.> >> > - Parasara Hora> >> > 11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations > > `monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various > > professions, many jobs, multiple business, or from properties. > > Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial results to 11th as well as > > 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd from those > > houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and > > fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association with > > the house of love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder 11th > > is supposed to signify the second

marriage. Since 11th signifies > > the second marriage, it is natural to derive the result `many > > wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in the above > > sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It > > just indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life > > comfort, women being just one of them as per ancient view. Thus for > > a righteous individual in modern life, the same may not be of much > > relevance - in a society that does not appreciate multiple > > relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with a single > > wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted to > > him, and having multiple relations is there. But such relations > > will never become a burden or trouble to him, even if the same is > > present.> >> > Another version of the

above sloka of Parasara is also available, > > which is quoted earlier as well -> >> > If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would be > > troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous; > > will have many good qualities and many wives.> >> > - Parasara Hora> >> > Here the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in > > 11th)-> >> > * He would be troubled by extra earnings!> >> > * He will have many wives.> >> > The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra > > earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is > > wrong, we should verify this result. Let us see what others have to > > say about Lagna lord in 11th house.> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He

will have > > good children (especially male child), and would be very > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).> >> > - Meenaraja Hora> >> > As mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results > > especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the derivation, > > he will have a good life. `Good children' is also a natural > > derivation since the lagna lord in 11th aspects 5th and bestows > > good results to the same. In ancient times, son was considered more > > auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition of the > > family (especially in north India where paternal hereditary system > > was popular). Thus good children and happiness from the same is > > actually meant to say `good son' and not

`good daughters' under the > > above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male > > nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India, > > maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus > > daughter was considered equally auspicious. In the current society > > - this distinction is irrelevant and we can resort to the > > derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the native will have many > > good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he want son's > > he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have them, > > if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children > > results.> >> > Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja with > > slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.> >> > If lagna lord is in

11th, he will live a good life. He will have > > good children (especially male child), and would be very > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).> >> > - Hora Pradeepam> >> > While going through quotes available related to `House Base' result > > derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam, > > Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the > > quotes given by Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly > > understandable and logical, since we have already noticed that even > > though Parasara reflects more understanding about the underlying > > principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its influence on the > > native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule alone > > but

instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an > > approach cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is trying > > to learn `House Base' result derivation technique in its own > > context. That is why even though Parasara is absolutely justified > > for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are given more importance. > > Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations sticks to the > > context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach. Since > > here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result derivation > > technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that of > > Parasara, even though the truth remains that Parasara has better > > understanding of the context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage of > > more repute, while Meenaraja is just an ancient scholar king of > >

Gujarat.> >> > Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to > > Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and > > lived after the period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to > > some as `Yavana' as well. Both of them draw their knowledge from > > the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or `Yavaneswara', an ancient > > scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a sage and lived > > prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara' and > > we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC 1400 > > by Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived > > prior to BC 1400. Certainly this period is far prior to that of > > Greek invasion. Thus it is clear that the word `Yavana' does not > > refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we are going though

the > > texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora' (AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After AD > > 250) which are available even today, we find that -> >> > * There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts> >> > * Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek gods> >> > * These texts reflect a good understanding of Upanishads and > > Sankhya system of knowledge> >> > * Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people well > > versed in that language.> >> > * Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT found > > in Greece.> >> > * There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of astrology > > in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and available > > quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the

same.> >> > But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but instead > > had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who > > didn't even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian > > scholars who neither studied such texts in depth nor derived their > > own conclusions (but instead parroted the words of western > > scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana indian astrology is > > borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead - Fools! > > What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true that > > the `Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and even > > BPHS originated outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident > > from many of the unique words used in such texts.> >> > * Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates that

> > that they must have originated outside current India is present in > > all these works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha', > > `Apoklima' and many more.> >> > We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?; or > > Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other possibility? > > Please note that -> >> > * This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge > > originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary > > universe.> >> > * The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other > > tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow the > > Vedic system.> >> > Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -> >> > Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered this >

> knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are > > respected like sages. If the same is possible, why not the people > > with the `Sacred Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and lives > > within India)?> >> > - Garga Hora> >> > Note that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha', the > > ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is on > > the other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never followed > > the Vedic system, but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The > > deity symbols found in Harappa are seated in `Moolabanddha' yogic > > posture, most scholars agree that it represents Siva. Further > > `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per > > Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan > > city

happened around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word > > `Mlecchha' which originally used to refer to `Meluhan' people, must > > have gained some degenerated meaning, due to the advent of Jain > > (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be to the > > `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who followed > > their system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.> >> > Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are `Yavana > > Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana Grandha'? > > Do we have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text mentioned > > even in the epic Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for this > > word, as quoted below -> >> > Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause of > > creation; those texts in which the

difference between Dharma and > > Adharma is clarified without considering Sruti or Smriti; such > > texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a Dharamic > > system that is different from the one that is depicted in `Sruti', > > it is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.> >> > - Sukra Neeti> >> > `Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama' and `Nigama' texts; > > i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later period > > the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in the > > ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use to > > refer to the original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva > > Agama', the Tantric system followed in civilizations like Harappa. > > `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this side of Sarasvati river, > > but on the

other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its `Saiva Agama' > > system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated there > > is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the > > people lived there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).> >> > Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic > > civilization (Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the region > > between the rivers of Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was already > > dried out (Around BC 1900) and the Harappan civilization collapsed. > > Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of worshiping Ahur Mazda > > (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming popular, and > > Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of > > Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of > > Nirayana astrology was

outside `Vedic stream', clearly non-vedic. > > Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the revered > > god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain temples, > > Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and the > > turbulence of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario, if > > you find words such as Yavana - to whom it refers to?> >> > * It refers to the people lived outside India. (In the past this > > word was used to refer initially to Harappans, then Persians > > (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)> >> > * The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic culture > > (The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they > > believed in god, even though followed non-vedic tradition)> >> > If this is the scenario, and if we could

find words of seemingly > > Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in > > astrological literature of by gone past, in even books of BC 1400 > > origin such as Garga Hora and Parasara Hora - to whom these words > > and knowledge should be attributed to? To Greeks - who came to > > India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the great Asura > > culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya), Persia > > (Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to attribute > > these non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the Asura > > culture. Note how Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante > > =>Drekkana and gets adopts back into Sanskrit in its new form, but > > with the same original meaning 1/3 rd of a Sign! Note that the > > Indian meaning of many of such words are different

from the > > phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus is > > Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in indian > > astrology texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for > > many words. Thus instead of resorting to feeble theories of Greek > > origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology' means `Greek > > astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility - The > > Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and > > Persia) prior to the Greece must have contributed much to the > > knowledge and vocabulary of both Greeks and Indians. Indians are > > indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture for this great > > knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to vedic > > civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama > > Sastra'

(Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by > > Saiva Agama tradition of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many > > other places from there), then to Jain with in India, and from them > > to South India.> >> > Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great > > astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian religion (Gujarat is known as > > Zourashtra - due to this association with Persia), the rudiments of > > Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About `Sphujidhwaja > > Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -> >> > * There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks> >> > * These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.> >> > * There is no similar work available or known in Greek> >> > * These books is not written in Greek language.> >> > * These

books does not mention any Greek teacher or god> >> > * These books never mention that they are translations (they are > > original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)> >> > But still some stupid people argue that these books are > > translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing that > > the whole of Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above > > literary evidence regarding those books and the history of the > > world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by western ego - they have to > > prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came from Greece to > > India - and many Indian Vedic fools are with them now! What a > > catastrophe - to the knowledge India reveres! Note that the Vedas > > are revered but not the fools. Let us try to restate the authority > > and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of

`Agama Sastra' (Non- > > Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically present the > > same - before those who really want to learn.> >> > We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of discussion > > - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth it. > > Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.> >> > The 11th house signifies things such as - gain, elder brother, > > left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus the placement of lagna > > lord in 10th generates special importance to the derivations > > related to the same.> >> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)> >> > ================================================> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >>

>>

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Thank you for sharing this information. This group has so much information stored in their minds and I am hoping at some time you will all contribute to a thread that will make this knowledge easily available for beginners. I know that the purpose of this group is noble and that scholarly people can learn through lively, thoughtful interchange of information with each other. At some point I hope you will take the time to look back a little and see how much time and effort it took to get each of you to the point of understanding that you have now. If you could envision a step by step process of how to learn Vedic astrology and culture what would it look like? For those of us that do not have the good fortune to sit at the Guru's feet and receive the oral instruction how could we systematically prepare ourselves to learn this deep and complex subject? Did the Rishis leave us a written guide on how, what, and in what order to study each topic? Peace to you all. NickieOn Oct 4, 2007, at 10:01 PM, vavamenon wrote:History of Astronomy... The Rigveda refers to the 27 constellations associated with the motions of the sun and also the 12 zodiacal divisions of the sky. In 500 AD, Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the earth to spin on its axis and considered the motions of the planets with respect to the sun.Astronomy was mostly stagnant in medieval Europe, but flourished meanwhile in the Arab world. The late 9th century Islamic astronomer al-Farghani wrote extensively on the motion of celestial bodies. His work was translated into Latin in the 12th century. In the late 10th century, a huge observatory was built near Tehran, Persia (now Iran), by the astronomer al-Khujandi, who observed a series of meridian transits of the Sun, which allowed him to calculate the obliquity of the ecliptic. Also in Persia, Omar Khayyam compiled many tables and performed a reformation of the calendar that was more accurate than the Julian and came close to the Gregorian.During the Renaissance, Copernicus proposed a heliocentric model of the Solar System. His work was defended, expanded upon, and corrected by Galileo Galilei and Johannes Kepler. Galileo added the innovation of using telescopes to enhance his observations. Kepler was the first to devise a system that described correctly the details of the motion of the planets with the Sun at the center. However, Kepler did not succeed in formulating a theory behind the laws he wrote down. It was left to Newton's invention of celestial dynamics and his law of gravitation to finally explain the motions of the planets. Newton also developed the reflecting telescope to further enhance observations.IndiaThere are astronomical references of chronological significance in the Vedas. Some Vedic notices mark the beginning of the year and that of the vernal equinox in Orion; this was the case around 4500 BC. Fire altars, with astronomical basis, have been found in the third millennium cities of India. The texts that describe their designs are conservatively dated to the first millennium BC, but their contents appear to be much older.Yajnavalkya (perhaps 1800 BC) advanced a 95-year cycle to synchronize the motions of the sun and the moon. A text on Vedic astrology that has been dated to 1350 BC, was written by Lagadha. In 500 AD, Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the earth to spin on its axis and considered the motions of the planets with respect to the sun. Brahmagupta (598-668) was the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain and during his tenure there wrote a text on astronomy, the Brahmasphutasiddhan ta in 628. Bhaskara (1114-1185) was the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain, continuing the mathematical tradition of Brahmagupta. He wrote the Siddhantasiromani which consists of two parts: Goladhyaya (sphere) and Grahaganita (mathematics of the planets). The other important names of astronomers from India are Madhava and Nilakantha.MayaThe Maya calculated the solar year to somewhat greater accuracy than the Gregorian calendar. They made detailed tables for calculating phases of the Moon and the movements of Venus for centuries in the past or future. Astronomy and the measurement of time were vitally important components of Mayan religion.Ancient GreeceGreek philosophers thought of several models to explain the movements of stars, planets, the Sun and the Moon. Eratosthenes, using the angles of shadows created at widely-separated regions, estimated the circumference of the Earth with great accuracy. Hipparchus made a number of important contributions, including the first measurement of precession and the compilation of the first star catalog. Ptolemy later referred to this work in his important Almagest, which had a lasting effect on astronomy up to the Renaissance.Middle AgesDuring the Middle Ages, astronomy, as most of the sciences, didn't advance much in Europe, and many important works could have been forgotten but for the work of scholars of the Arabic world. However, astronomy remained a part of the academic curriculum. Priests in distant parishes needed elementary astronomical knowledge for calculating the exact date of the Easter. The Arabic world under Islam had become higly cultured, and many important works of knowledge from ancient Greece were translated into Arabic, used and stored in libraries throughout the area. New works were also written, and even the name of algebra tells us about its origin. In astronomy, Arab scholars also left a legacy, that is easily seen in the names still used for most of the brilliant stars in the sky (see, e.g. Ursa Major).In the late 9th century the Islamic astronomer al-Farghani (Abu'l-Abbas Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Kathir al-Farghani) wrote extensively on the motion of celestial bodies. In the 12th century, his works were translated into Latin, and it is said that Dante got his astronomical knowledge from al-Farghani' s books.Omar Khayyam (Ghiyath al-Din Abu'l-Fath Umar ibn Ibrahim al-Nisaburi al-Khayyami) was a great Persian scientist, philosopher, and poet who lived from 1048-1131. He compiled many astronomical tables and performed a reformation of the calendar which was more accurate than the Julian and came close to the Gregorian. An amazing feat was his calculation of the year to be 365.24219858156 days long, which is accurate to the 6th decimal place.Meanwhile in Europe, the model from the Greeks most remembered through the Middle Ages was the geocentric model, in which the Earth was in the center of the Universe, with the Sun, Moon and planets each occupying its own concentric sphere. Stars used the outermost one.The Copernican revolutionCopernicus proposed a heliocentric system, in which the Sun was in the center. The model had some flaws, and did not predict the positions of the planets better that the old Ptolemaic system (the version of the geocentric model that was most accepted), but had its supporters. Two of the most famous supporters were Johannes Kepler and Galileo Galilei.Kepler, using precise naked-eye observations made by Tycho Brahe, discovered the three laws of planetary movement that carry his name (though he published them mixed with some other not-so-correct ideas, and didn't give them the importance that we do).Galileo was not the first one to use the telescope to observe the sky, although he after constructing a 20x refractor telescope he discovered the moons of Jupiter and introduced sunspots to Europe, He is perhaps most famous for his problems with the Catholic Church (though the real history is more complex than usually believed). Galileo's greatest contribution to knowledge was not in astronomy, but in dynamics, where he studied the motion of objects, but his effort in popularizing the Copernican model was very significant.Physics Marries AstronomyIsaac Newton was the first scientist to marry physics with astronomy, discovering that the same force that causes objects to fall on Earth, causes the motion of planets and the moon. Using his Law of gravity, the laws of Kepler are explained, and the heliocentric system gained a sound physical basis, celestial mechanics was invented. Newton also found out that the white light from the sun can be decomposed into its component colors; this fact is crucial for most of the 20th-century research.Modern AstronomyAt the end of the 19th century it was discovered that, when decomposing the light from the sun, multitude of spectral lines were observed (regions where there was less or no light). Experiments with hot gases showed that the same lines could be observed in the spectra of gases, specific lines corresponding to unique elements. It was proved that the chemical elements found in the sun (chiefly hydrogen and helium) were also found on Earth. During the 20th century spectrometry (the study of these lines) advanced, especially because of the advent of quantum physics, that was necessary to understand the observations.Although in previous centuries noted astronomers were exclusively male, at the turn of the 20th century women began to play a role in the great discoveries. In this period prior to modern computers, women at the United States Naval Observatory (USNO), Harvard University, and other astronomy research institutions often served as human "computers," whom performed the tedious calculations while scientists performed research requiring more background knowledge. Many of the discoveries in this period were originally noted by the women "computers" and reported to their supervisors. For example, Henrietta Swan Leavitt discovered the cepheid variable star period-luminosity relation, Annie Jump Cannon organized the stellar spectral types according to stellar temperature, and Maria Mitchell was the first person to discover a comet using a telescope. Some of these women received little or no recognition during their lives due to their lower professional standing in the field of astronomy. And although their discoveries are taught in classrooms around the world, few students of astronomy can attribute the works to their authors.============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =Brilliant is my comment - A rational look - and keeping open mind is very important. Now Constellations are very important - these are necaasry for all calculations - geo referencing. Space and NASA bound calculations etc are totally irrelevant for earth bound creatures. (I think I already mentioned this in earlier post.)A great site giving simple descriptions ishttp://www.enchante dlearning. com/subjects/ astronomy/ stars/constellat ions.shtmlThis gives constellations seen from the southern hemisphere also. One very interesting constellation is Draco - ============ =="DRACODraco (from the dragon in Greek mythology) is a constellation in the Northern Hemisphere. It is the radiant of the Quadrantids and Draconids (meteor showers). Draco is near the northern celestial pole; the tail of Draco is between the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper. The brightest star in the Draco is Thuban; it is located in the dragon's tail. (Thuban means "dragon or serpent" in Arabic. Thuban was the Earth's pole star about 5,000 years ago.) The second-brightest star in the Draco is Rastaban (which means "head of the dragon or serpent")."============ =This thuba mentioned is probably "Dhruva". This constellation and the stars are mentioned in the Ramayana.Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote:Dear Nickie ji,Thanks. Yes, there is much information of this type to be discussed. I will present and discuss them as the time and context allows. Note: My worry is - there is much to say, but not enough time and patience with us. A total re-structuring and re-organizing is necessary. But we have to hurry, there is not enough time left. Let us try our best in bit of time we have with us - the story continues -existence evolves... Love,Sreenadh--- In  , Nickie Jan Scott <n.scott wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh,> > Thank you for the history lesson in this thread. It has been very > informative and useful. I hope that you will add more of this type of > information in the future. When examining the whole tree it is easy > to overlook the root that feeds and supports it. Thank you. Peace. > Nickie> On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Sreenadh wrote:> > >> > Dear All,> >> > The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on "LL in > > 11th house" is given below.> >> > ================================================> > Lagna lord in 11th House> > --> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good habits > > and would be righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy and > > would be very knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be > > troubled by extra earnings. He will live a good life. He will have > > good children - especially male child. He will never have to worry > > about anything mentioned above.> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains in many > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and habits. > > He may have many wives.> >> > - Parasara Hora> >> > 11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations > > `monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various > > professions, many jobs, multiple business, or from properties. > > Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial results to 11th as well as > > 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd from those > > houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and > > fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association with > > the house of love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder 11th > > is supposed to signify the second marriage. Since 11th signifies > > the second marriage, it is natural to derive the result `many > > wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in the above > > sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It > > just indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life > > comfort, women being just one of them as per ancient view. Thus for > > a righteous individual in modern life, the same may not be of much > > relevance - in a society that does not appreciate multiple > > relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with a single > > wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted to > > him, and having multiple relations is there. But such relations > > will never become a burden or trouble to him, even if the same is > > present.> >> > Another version of the above sloka of Parasara is also available, > > which is quoted earlier as well -> >> > If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would be > > troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous; > > will have many good qualities and many wives.> >> > - Parasara Hora> >> > Here the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in > > 11th)-> >> > * He would be troubled by extra earnings!> >> > * He will have many wives.> >> > The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra > > earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is > > wrong, we should verify this result. Let us see what others have to > > say about Lagna lord in 11th house.> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have > > good children (especially male child), and would be very > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).> >> > - Meenaraja Hora> >> > As mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results > > especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the derivation, > > he will have a good life. `Good children' is also a natural > > derivation since the lagna lord in 11th aspects 5th and bestows > > good results to the same. In ancient times, son was considered more > > auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition of the > > family (especially in north India where paternal hereditary system > > was popular). Thus good children and happiness from the same is > > actually meant to say `good son' and not `good daughters' under the > > above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male > > nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India, > > maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus > > daughter was considered equally auspicious. In the current society > > - this distinction is irrelevant and we can resort to the > > derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the native will have many > > good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he want son's > > he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have them, > > if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children > > results.> >> > Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja with > > slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.> >> > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have > > good children (especially male child), and would be very > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will never > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).> >> > - Hora Pradeepam> >> > While going through quotes available related to `House Base' result > > derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam, > > Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the > > quotes given by Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly > > understandable and logical, since we have already noticed that even > > though Parasara reflects more understanding about the underlying > > principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its influence on the > > native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule alone > > but instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an > > approach cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is trying > > to learn `House Base' result derivation technique in its own > > context. That is why even though Parasara is absolutely justified > > for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are given more importance. > > Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations sticks to the > > context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach. Since > > here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result derivation > > technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that of > > Parasara, even though the truth remains that Parasara has better > > understanding of the context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage of > > more repute, while Meenaraja is just an ancient scholar king of > > Gujarat.> >> > Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to > > Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and > > lived after the period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to > > some as `Yavana' as well. Both of them draw their knowledge from > > the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or `Yavaneswara', an ancient > > scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a sage and lived > > prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara' and > > we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC 1400 > > by Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived > > prior to BC 1400. Certainly this period is far prior to that of > > Greek invasion. Thus it is clear that the word `Yavana' does not > > refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we are going though the > > texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora' (AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After AD > > 250) which are available even today, we find that -> >> > * There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts> >> > * Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek gods> >> > * These texts reflect a good understanding of Upanishads and > > Sankhya system of knowledge> >> > * Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people well > > versed in that language.> >> > * Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT found > > in Greece.> >> > * There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of astrology > > in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and available > > quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the same.> >> > But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but instead > > had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who > > didn't even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian > > scholars who neither studied such texts in depth nor derived their > > own conclusions (but instead parroted the words of western > > scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana indian astrology is > > borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead - Fools! > > What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true that > > the `Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and even > > BPHS originated outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident > > from many of the unique words used in such texts.> >> > * Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates that > > that they must have originated outside current India is present in > > all these works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha', > > `Apoklima' and many more.> >> > We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?; or > > Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other possibility? > > Please note that -> >> > * This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge > > originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary > > universe.> >> > * The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other > > tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow the > > Vedic system.> >> > Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -> >> > Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered this > > knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are > > respected like sages. If the same is possible, why not the people > > with the `Sacred Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and lives > > within India)?> >> > - Garga Hora> >> > Note that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha', the > > ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is on > > the other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never followed > > the Vedic system, but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The > > deity symbols found in Harappa are seated in `Moolabanddha' yogic > > posture, most scholars agree that it represents Siva. Further > > `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per > > Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan > > city happened around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word > > `Mlecchha' which originally used to refer to `Meluhan' people, must > > have gained some degenerated meaning, due to the advent of Jain > > (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be to the > > `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who followed > > their system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.> >> > Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are `Yavana > > Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana Grandha'? > > Do we have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text mentioned > > even in the epic Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for this > > word, as quoted below -> >> > Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause of > > creation; those texts in which the difference between Dharma and > > Adharma is clarified without considering Sruti or Smriti; such > > texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a Dharamic > > system that is different from the one that is depicted in `Sruti', > > it is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.> >> > - Sukra Neeti> >> > `Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama' and `Nigama' texts; > > i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later period > > the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in the > > ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use to > > refer to the original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva > > Agama', the Tantric system followed in civilizations like Harappa. > > `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this side of Sarasvati river, > > but on the other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its `Saiva Agama' > > system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated there > > is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the > > people lived there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).> >> > Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic > > civilization (Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the region > > between the rivers of Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was already > > dried out (Around BC 1900) and the Harappan civilization collapsed. > > Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of worshiping Ahur Mazda > > (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming popular, and > > Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of > > Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of > > Nirayana astrology was outside `Vedic stream', clearly non-vedic. > > Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the revered > > god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain temples, > > Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and the > > turbulence of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario, if > > you find words such as Yavana - to whom it refers to?> >> > * It refers to the people lived outside India. (In the past this > > word was used to refer initially to Harappans, then Persians > > (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)> >> > * The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic culture > > (The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they > > believed in god, even though followed non-vedic tradition)> >> > If this is the scenario, and if we could find words of seemingly > > Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in > > astrological literature of by gone past, in even books of BC 1400 > > origin such as Garga Hora and Parasara Hora - to whom these words > > and knowledge should be attributed to? To Greeks - who came to > > India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the great Asura > > culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya), Persia > > (Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to attribute > > these non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the Asura > > culture. Note how Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante > > =>Drekkana and gets adopts back into Sanskrit in its new form, but > > with the same original meaning 1/3 rd of a Sign! Note that the > > Indian meaning of many of such words are different from the > > phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus is > > Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in indian > > astrology texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for > > many words. Thus instead of resorting to feeble theories of Greek > > origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology' means `Greek > > astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility - The > > Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and > > Persia) prior to the Greece must have contributed much to the > > knowledge and vocabulary of both Greeks and Indians. Indians are > > indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture for this great > > knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to vedic > > civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama > > Sastra' (Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by > > Saiva Agama tradition of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many > > other places from there), then to Jain with in India, and from them > > to South India.> >> > Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great > > astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian religion (Gujarat is known as > > Zourashtra - due to this association with Persia), the rudiments of > > Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About `Sphujidhwaja > > Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -> >> > * There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks> >> > * These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.> >> > * There is no similar work available or known in Greek> >> > * These books is not written in Greek language.> >> > * These books does not mention any Greek teacher or god> >> > * These books never mention that they are translations (they are > > original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)> >> > But still some stupid people argue that these books are > > translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing that > > the whole of Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above > > literary evidence regarding those books and the history of the > > world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by western ego - they have to > > prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came from Greece to > > India - and many Indian Vedic fools are with them now! What a > > catastrophe - to the knowledge India reveres! Note that the Vedas > > are revered but not the fools. Let us try to restate the authority > > and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of `Agama Sastra' (Non- > > Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically present the > > same - before those who really want to learn.> >> > We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of discussion > > - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth it. > > Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.> >> > The 11th house signifies things such as - gain, elder brother, > > left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus the placement of lagna > > lord in 10th generates special importance to the derivations > > related to the same.> >> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)> >> > ================================================> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >> >>Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on TV.

[Guest guest]

Dear Nickie ji,

Thanks for the good mail.

==>

> If you could envision a step by step process of how to

> learn Vedic astrology and culture what would it look like? For those

> of us that do not have the good fortune to sit at the Guru's feet

> and receive the oral instruction how could we systematically

> prepare ourselves to learn this deep and complex subject? Did the

> Rishis leave us a written guide on how, what, and in what order to

> study each topic?

<==

Yes, we could envision a step by step process of how learn

astrology (but not vedic astrology or vedic culture). Note that " vedic

astrology " is a subject we are yet to put our hand on. What we are

discussing here is Nirayana astrology, which is basically non-vedic in

nature. Vedic astrology is more about Tropical astrology + Asterisms;

which in this group too we will certainly discuss later.

Hmm..Deep and complex subject..: Nirayana astrology is NOT deep and

complex at all! It is simple and straight forward application of

7-fold system. Nothing else is there in the base - it is so simple.

In what order to study each topic?: That by discussing each subject

in order we are deriving here and learning. When the learning is over,

the system would be in place. Certainly the Rishis provide us a

written framework to do so (such as the 7-fold system) and without

such an outline of subject to be dealt with we would have been in

trouble. Let us all together evolve and re-structure things and

re-create the perfect system in place, which was once present and then

got lost in hay. It is our effort – including you me and all in

this group. We are creative enough - right? So we can do it.

Love and Hugs,

Sreenadh

 

, Nickie Jan Scott

<n.scott wrote:

>

> Thank you for sharing this information. This group has so much

> information stored in their minds and I am hoping at some time you

> will all contribute to a thread that will make this knowledge easily

> available for beginners. I know that the purpose of this group is

> noble and that scholarly people can learn through lively, thoughtful

> interchange of information with each other. At some point I hope you

> will take the time to look back a little and see how much time and

> effort it took to get each of you to the point of understanding that

> you have now. If you could envision a step by step process of how to

> learn Vedic astrology and culture what would it look like? For those

> of us that do not have the good fortune to sit at the Guru's feet and

> receive the oral instruction how could we systematically prepare

> ourselves to learn this deep and complex subject? Did the Rishis

> leave us a written guide on how, what, and in what order to study

> each topic? Peace to you all. Nickie

> On Oct 4, 2007, at 10:01 PM, vavamenon wrote:

>

> >

> > History of Astronomy

> >

> > ... The Rigveda refers to the 27 constellations associated with the

> > motions of the sun and also the 12 zodiacal divisions of the sky.

> >

> > In 500 AD, Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the

> > earth to spin on its axis and considered the motions of the planets

> > with respect to the sun.

> >

> > Astronomy was mostly stagnant in medieval Europe, but flourished

> > meanwhile in the Arab world. The late 9th century Islamic astronomer

> > al-Farghani wrote extensively on the motion of celestial bodies. His

> > work was translated into Latin in the 12th century. In the late 10th

> > century, a huge observatory was built near Tehran, Persia (now Iran),

> > by the astronomer al-Khujandi, who observed a series of meridian

> > transits of the Sun, which allowed him to calculate the obliquity of

> > the ecliptic. Also in Persia, Omar Khayyam compiled many tables and

> > performed a reformation of the calendar that was more accurate than

> > the Julian and came close to the Gregorian.

> >

> > During the Renaissance, Copernicus proposed a heliocentric model of

> > the Solar System. His work was defended, expanded upon, and corrected

> > by Galileo Galilei and Johannes Kepler. Galileo added the innovation

> > of using telescopes to enhance his observations. Kepler was the first

> > to devise a system that described correctly the details of the motion

> > of the planets with the Sun at the center. However, Kepler did not

> > succeed in formulating a theory behind the laws he wrote down. It was

> > left to Newton's invention of celestial dynamics and his law of

> > gravitation to finally explain the motions of the planets. Newton

> > also developed the reflecting telescope to further enhance

> > observations.

> >

> > India

> >

> > There are astronomical references of chronological significance in

> > the Vedas. Some Vedic notices mark the beginning of the year and that

> > of the vernal equinox in Orion; this was the case around 4500 BC.

> > Fire altars, with astronomical basis, have been found in the third

> > millennium cities of India. The texts that describe their designs are

> > conservatively dated to the first millennium BC, but their contents

> > appear to be much older.

> >

> > Yajnavalkya (perhaps 1800 BC) advanced a 95-year cycle to synchronize

> > the motions of the sun and the moon. A text on Vedic astrology that

> > has been dated to 1350 BC, was written by Lagadha. In 500 AD,

> > Aryabhata presented a mathematical system that took the earth to spin

> > on its axis and considered the motions of the planets with respect to

> > the sun. Brahmagupta (598-668) was the head of the astronomical

> > observatory at Ujjain and during his tenure there wrote a text on

> > astronomy, the Brahmasphutasiddhan ta in 628. Bhaskara (1114-1185) was

> > the head of the astronomical observatory at Ujjain, continuing the

> > mathematical tradition of Brahmagupta. He wrote the Siddhantasiromani

> > which consists of two parts: Goladhyaya (sphere) and Grahaganita

> > (mathematics of the planets). The other important names of

> > astronomers from India are Madhava and Nilakantha.

> >

> > Maya

> >

> > The Maya calculated the solar year to somewhat greater accuracy than

> > the Gregorian calendar. They made detailed tables for calculating

> > phases of the Moon and the movements of Venus for centuries in the

> > past or future. Astronomy and the measurement of time were vitally

> > important components of Mayan religion.

> >

> > Ancient Greece

> >

> > Greek philosophers thought of several models to explain the movements

> > of stars, planets, the Sun and the Moon. Eratosthenes, using the

> > angles of shadows created at widely-separated regions, estimated the

> > circumference of the Earth with great accuracy. Hipparchus made a

> > number of important contributions, including the first measurement of

> > precession and the compilation of the first star catalog. Ptolemy

> > later referred to this work in his important Almagest, which had a

> > lasting effect on astronomy up to the Renaissance.

> >

> > Middle Ages

> >

> > During the Middle Ages, astronomy, as most of the sciences, didn't

> > advance much in Europe, and many important works could have been

> > forgotten but for the work of scholars of the Arabic world. However,

> > astronomy remained a part of the academic curriculum. Priests in

> > distant parishes needed elementary astronomical knowledge for

> > calculating the exact date of the Easter. The Arabic world under

> > Islam had become higly cultured, and many important works of

> > knowledge from ancient Greece were translated into Arabic, used and

> > stored in libraries throughout the area. New works were also written,

> > and even the name of algebra tells us about its origin. In astronomy,

> > Arab scholars also left a legacy, that is easily seen in the names

> > still used for most of the brilliant stars in the sky (see, e.g. Ursa

> > Major).

> >

> > In the late 9th century the Islamic astronomer al-Farghani (Abu'l-

> > Abbas Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Kathir al-Farghani) wrote extensively on

> > the motion of celestial bodies. In the 12th century, his works were

> > translated into Latin, and it is said that Dante got his astronomical

> > knowledge from al-Farghani' s books.

> >

> > Omar Khayyam (Ghiyath al-Din Abu'l-Fath Umar ibn Ibrahim al-Nisaburi

> > al-Khayyami) was a great Persian scientist, philosopher, and poet who

> > lived from 1048-1131. He compiled many astronomical tables and

> > performed a reformation of the calendar which was more accurate than

> > the Julian and came close to the Gregorian. An amazing feat was his

> > calculation of the year to be 365.24219858156 days long, which is

> > accurate to the 6th decimal place.

> >

> > Meanwhile in Europe, the model from the Greeks most remembered

> > through the Middle Ages was the geocentric model, in which the Earth

> > was in the center of the Universe, with the Sun, Moon and planets

> > each occupying its own concentric sphere. Stars used the outermost

> > one.

> >

> > The Copernican revolution

> >

> > Copernicus proposed a heliocentric system, in which the Sun was in

> > the center. The model had some flaws, and did not predict the

> > positions of the planets better that the old Ptolemaic system (the

> > version of the geocentric model that was most accepted), but had its

> > supporters. Two of the most famous supporters were Johannes Kepler

> > and Galileo Galilei.

> >

> > Kepler, using precise naked-eye observations made by Tycho Brahe,

> > discovered the three laws of planetary movement that carry his name

> > (though he published them mixed with some other not-so-correct ideas,

> > and didn't give them the importance that we do).

> >

> > Galileo was not the first one to use the telescope to observe the

> > sky, although he after constructing a 20x refractor telescope he

> > discovered the moons of Jupiter and introduced sunspots to Europe, He

> > is perhaps most famous for his problems with the Catholic Church

> > (though the real history is more complex than usually believed).

> > Galileo's greatest contribution to knowledge was not in astronomy,

> > but in dynamics, where he studied the motion of objects, but his

> > effort in popularizing the Copernican model was very significant.

> >

> > Physics Marries Astronomy

> >

> > Isaac Newton was the first scientist to marry physics with astronomy,

> > discovering that the same force that causes objects to fall on Earth,

> > causes the motion of planets and the moon. Using his Law of gravity,

> > the laws of Kepler are explained, and the heliocentric system gained

> > a sound physical basis, celestial mechanics was invented. Newton also

> > found out that the white light from the sun can be decomposed into

> > its component colors; this fact is crucial for most of the 20th-

> > century research.

> >

> > Modern Astronomy

> >

> > At the end of the 19th century it was discovered that, when

> > decomposing the light from the sun, multitude of spectral lines were

> > observed (regions where there was less or no light). Experiments with

> > hot gases showed that the same lines could be observed in the spectra

> > of gases, specific lines corresponding to unique elements. It was

> > proved that the chemical elements found in the sun (chiefly hydrogen

> > and helium) were also found on Earth. During the 20th century

> > spectrometry (the study of these lines) advanced, especially because

> > of the advent of quantum physics, that was necessary to understand

> > the observations.

> >

> > Although in previous centuries noted astronomers were exclusively

> > male, at the turn of the 20th century women began to play a role in

> > the great discoveries. In this period prior to modern computers,

> > women at the United States Naval Observatory (USNO), Harvard

> > University, and other astronomy research institutions often served as

> > human " computers, " whom performed the tedious calculations while

> > scientists performed research requiring more background knowledge.

> > Many of the discoveries in this period were originally noted by the

> > women " computers " and reported to their supervisors. For example,

> > Henrietta Swan Leavitt discovered the cepheid variable star period-

> > luminosity relation, Annie Jump Cannon organized the stellar spectral

> > types according to stellar temperature, and Maria Mitchell was the

> > first person to discover a comet using a telescope. Some of these

> > women received little or no recognition during their lives due to

> > their lower professional standing in the field of astronomy. And

> > although their discoveries are taught in classrooms around the world,

> > few students of astronomy can attribute the works to their authors.

> >

> > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =

> >

> > Brilliant is my comment - A rational look - and keeping open mind is

> > very important.

> >

> > Now Constellations are very important - these are necaasry for all

> > calculations - geo referencing. Space and NASA bound calculations etc

> > are totally irrelevant for earth bound creatures. (I think I already

> > mentioned this in earlier post.)

> >

> > A great site giving simple descriptions is

> >

> > http://www.enchante dlearning. com/subjects/ astronomy/ stars/

> > constellat io

> > ns.shtml

> >

> > This gives constellations seen from the southern hemisphere also. One

> > very interesting constellation is Draco -

> > ============ ==

> > " DRACO

> > Draco (from the dragon in Greek mythology) is a constellation in the

> > Northern Hemisphere. It is the radiant of the Quadrantids and

> > Draconids (meteor showers). Draco is near the northern celestial

> > pole; the tail of Draco is between the Big Dipper and the Little

> > Dipper. The brightest star in the Draco is Thuban; it is located in

> > the dragon's tail. (Thuban means " dragon or serpent " in Arabic.

> > Thuban was the Earth's pole star about 5,000 years ago.) The second-

> > brightest star in the Draco is Rastaban (which means " head of the

> > dragon or serpent " ). "

> > ============ =

> >

> > This thuba mentioned is probably " Dhruva " . This constellation and the

> > stars are mentioned in the Ramayana.

> >

> >

> > Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> > Dear Nickie ji,

> > Thanks. Yes, there is much information of this type to be discussed.

> > I will present and discuss them as the time and context allows.

> > Note: My worry is - there is much to say, but not enough time and

> > patience with us. A total re-structuring and re-organizing is

> > necessary. But we have to hurry, there is not enough time left. Let

> > us try our best in bit of time we have with us - the story continues -

> > existence evolves...

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Nickie Jan Scott

> > <n.scott@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sreenadh,

> > >

> > > Thank you for the history lesson in this thread. It has been

> > very

> > > informative and useful. I hope that you will add more of this type

> > of

> > > information in the future. When examining the whole tree it is

> > easy

> > > to overlook the root that feeds and supports it. Thank you. Peace.

> > > Nickie

> > > On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Sreenadh wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > The intial info necessory for an useful discussion on " LL in

> > > > 11th house " is given below.

> > > >

> > > > ================================================

> > > > Lagna lord in 11th House

> > > > --

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have monetary gains in many

> > > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities, good

> > habits

> > > > and would be righteous. He would be radiant, strong and happy

> > and

> > > > would be very knowledgeable. He may have many wives. He might be

> > > > troubled by extra earnings. He will live a good life. He will

> > have

> > > > good children - especially male child. He will never have to

> > worry

> > > > about anything mentioned above.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 11th house, will have (monetary) gains in

> > many

> > > > ways. He will have good name and fame; good qualities and

> > habits.

> > > > He may have many wives.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > 11th is the house signifying gain. That is why the derivations

> > > > `monetary gains in many ways'. It could be from various

> > > > professions, many jobs, multiple business, or from properties.

> > > > Lagna lord in 11th bestows beneficial results to 11th as well as

> > > > 5th and empowers 9th and 10th (being 3rd and 2nd from those

> > > > houses ) - that is why the derivation he will have good name and

> > > > fame, good qualities and habits. It is has direct association

> > with

> > > > the house of love (i.e. 5th house) and 5th from 7th. No wonder

> > 11th

> > > > is supposed to signify the second marriage. Since 11th signifies

> > > > the second marriage, it is natural to derive the result `many

> > > > wives', if lagna lord is in 11th house. Note that in the above

> > > > sloka, it is given as a good result and not as a bad result. It

> > > > just indicates that the native will enjoy all kinds of life

> > > > comfort, women being just one of them as per ancient view. Thus

> > for

> > > > a righteous individual in modern life, the same may not be of

> > much

> > > > relevance - in a society that does not appreciate multiple

> > > > relations or marriages, he may resort to be satisfied with a

> > single

> > > > wife. But still all the possibility of women getting attracted

> > to

> > > > him, and having multiple relations is there. But such relations

> > > > will never become a burden or trouble to him, even if the same

> > is

> > > > present.

> > > >

> > > > Another version of the above sloka of Parasara is also

> > available,

> > > > which is quoted earlier as well -

> > > >

> > > > If the lagna lord is in 2nd or 11th house, the native would be

> > > > troubled by extra earnings. He will have good habits, righteous;

> > > > will have many good qualities and many wives.

> > > >

> > > > - Parasara Hora

> > > >

> > > > Here the special points are the derivations (if lagna lord is in

> > > > 11th)-

> > > >

> > > > * He would be troubled by extra earnings!

> > > >

> > > > * He will have many wives.

> > > >

> > > > The second point we have already discussed, but why should extra

> > > > earnings trouble the native? May be this version of the sloka is

> > > > wrong, we should verify this result. Let us see what others have

> > to

> > > > say about Lagna lord in 11th house.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have

> > > > good children (especially male child), and would be very

> > > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will

> > never

> > > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).

> > > >

> > > > - Meenaraja Hora

> > > >

> > > > As mentioned earlier, lagna lord in 11th bestows good results

> > > > especially to 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th - that is why the

> > derivation,

> > > > he will have a good life. `Good children' is also a natural

> > > > derivation since the lagna lord in 11th aspects 5th and bestows

> > > > good results to the same. In ancient times, son was considered

> > more

> > > > auspicious since he is the one who continues the tradition of

> > the

> > > > family (especially in north India where paternal hereditary

> > system

> > > > was popular). Thus good children and happiness from the same is

> > > > actually meant to say `good son' and not `good daughters' under

> > the

> > > > above circumstances. 5th and 11th are odd signs, signifying male

> > > > nature, that too supports this. Note that in southern India,

> > > > maternal hereditary system was present at that time, and thus

> > > > daughter was considered equally auspicious. In the current

> > society

> > > > - this distinction is irrelevant and we can resort to the

> > > > derivation - `if lagna lord is in 11th the native will have many

> > > > good children and happiness from them'. That is, if he want

> > son's

> > > > he will have them, if he want to have daughters he will have

> > them,

> > > > if both the same as well - in any case happiness from children

> > > > results.

> > > >

> > > > Horapradeepam also quotes the same sloka provided by Meenaraja

> > with

> > > > slight word differences, but the meaning remains the same.

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 11th, he will live a good life. He will have

> > > > good children (especially male child), and would be very

> > > > knowledgeable. He would be radiant, strong and happy. He will

> > never

> > > > have to worry (about anything mentioned above).

> > > >

> > > > - Hora Pradeepam

> > > >

> > > > While going through quotes available related to `House Base'

> > result

> > > > derivation, we notice that the midlevel texts (like Horaratnam,

> > > > Horapradeepam, Jataka Saradeepam) gives more importance to the

> > > > quotes given by Meenaraja than by Parasara. This is clearly

> > > > understandable and logical, since we have already noticed that

> > even

> > > > though Parasara reflects more understanding about the underlying

> > > > principles and the layout of the zodiacal and its influence on

> > the

> > > > native, at times he does not stick to the `House Base' rule

> > alone

> > > > but instead mixes it with `Sign-House' derivations. Such an

> > > > approach cannot be termed fully systematic, if some one is

> > trying

> > > > to learn `House Base' result derivation technique in its own

> > > > context. That is why even though Parasara is absolutely

> > justified

> > > > for his derivations, Meenaraja's sloka are given more

> > importance.

> > > > Meenaraja considered only `House Base' derivations sticks to the

> > > > context of discussion, which is a better systematic approach.

> > Since

> > > > here we too are trying to understand `House Base' result

> > derivation

> > > > technique, me too appreciate the approach of Meenaraja than that

> > of

> > > > Parasara, even though the truth remains that Parasara has better

> > > > understanding of the context than Meenaraja. Parasara is a sage

> > of

> > > > more repute, while Meenaraja is just an ancient scholar king of

> > > > Gujarat.

> > > >

> > > > Another point of interest is concerning the name attributed to

> > > > Meenaraja. He is usually known by the name `Vridha Yavana' and

> > > > lived after the period `Sphujidhwaja'. Sphujidhwaja was known to

> > > > some as `Yavana' as well. Both of them draw their knowledge from

> > > > the lineage of `Puratana Yavana' or `Yavaneswara', an ancient

> > > > scholar of indian astrology who is respected as a sage and lived

> > > > prior to BC 1400. Even BPHS mentions the name of `Yavaneswara'

> > and

> > > > we know that BPHS and Parasara Samhita were written around BC

> > 1400

> > > > by Parasara. That is why it is said that, sage Yavaneswara lived

> > > > prior to BC 1400. Certainly this period is far prior to that of

> > > > Greek invasion. Thus it is clear that the word `Yavana' does not

> > > > refer to Greeks in this context. Even when we are going though

> > the

> > > > texts `Sphujidhwaja Hora' (AD 250) and `Meenaraja Hora' (After

> > AD

> > > > 250) which are available even today, we find that -

> > > >

> > > > * There is no mention of any Greek gods in these texts

> > > >

> > > > * Indian gods like `Prajapati (Brahma)' is praised but no Greek

> > gods

> > > >

> > > > * These texts reflect a good understanding of Upanishads and

> > > > Sankhya system of knowledge

> > > >

> > > > * Those texts are written in pure Sanskrit written by people

> > well

> > > > versed in that language.

> > > >

> > > > * Astrological knowledge of same level, or same system is NOT

> > found

> > > > in Greece.

> > > >

> > > > * There is almost NILL available evidence (i.e. books) of

> > astrology

> > > > in Greece prior to Ptolemy. But in India many texts and

> > available

> > > > quotes from ancient texts pre-dates Greek knowledge of the same.

> > > >

> > > > But some western scholars who act as if doing research, but

> > instead

> > > > had a vested interest towards projecting Greek astronomy (who

> > > > didn't even knew that earth is round), or some so called indian

> > > > scholars who neither studied such texts in depth nor derived

> > their

> > > > own conclusions (but instead parroted the words of western

> > > > scholars) - started telling that the Nirayana indian astrology

> > is

> > > > borrowed from the Greeks! What else to say but instead - Fools!

> > > > What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. It is true

> > that

> > > > the `Yavana school of astrology' proposed by sage Yavana and

> > even

> > > > BPHS originated outside India, or in Kashmir region, as evident

> > > > from many of the unique words used in such texts.

> > > >

> > > > * Some unique words when considered linguistically indicates

> > that

> > > > that they must have originated outside current India is present

> > in

> > > > all these works. Such words include `Drekkana', `Rippha',

> > > > `Apoklima' and many more.

> > > >

> > > > We should clarify or describe - how and why this could happen?;

> > or

> > > > Are these words of Greek origin or is there any other

> > possibility?

> > > > Please note that -

> > > >

> > > > * This lineage of Yavaneswara's system of astrological knowledge

> > > > originated out side current India; outside the vedic literary

> > > > universe.

> > > >

> > > > * The word `Yavana' does not refer to Greek but to some other

> > > > tradition or people lived out side India, and does not follow

> > the

> > > > Vedic system.

> > > >

> > > > Sage Garga who lived around BC 1400, tells us that -

> > > >

> > > > Even though the Yavana people are `Mlecchha' they mastered this

> > > > knowledge branch of astrology well. Because of this they are

> > > > respected like sages. If the same is possible, why not the

> > people

> > > > with the `Sacred Thread' who have done the `Upanayana' (and

> > lives

> > > > within India)?

> > > >

> > > > - Garga Hora

> > > >

> > > > Note that the word `Mlecchha' refers to the people of `Meluha',

> > the

> > > > ancient name of Harappa city. Harappa was outside India, that is

> > on

> > > > the other side of Sarasvati River. Harappan people never

> > followed

> > > > the Vedic system, but valued Tantra, Yoga and Saiva Agama. The

> > > > deity symbols found in Harappa are seated in `Moolabanddha'

> > yogic

> > > > posture, most scholars agree that it represents Siva. Further

> > > > `Swastika' system, which represents the Nirayana Zodiac as per

> > > > Tantric tradition, is found in Harappa. The downfall of Harappan

> > > > city happened around BC 1900. By around BC 1400, the word

> > > > `Mlecchha' which originally used to refer to `Meluhan' people,

> > must

> > > > have gained some degenerated meaning, due to the advent of Jain

> > > > (Garga was a Jain) and other cultures. Therefore it must be to

> > the

> > > > `Harappan' people and especially to `Sage Yavaneswara' who

> > followed

> > > > their system of astrology, sage Garga is refering to.

> > > >

> > > > Yavaneswara Hora, Sphujidhwaja Hora, Meenaraja Hora etc are

> > `Yavana

> > > > Grandha' (Yavana texts). What is the meaning of `Yavana

> > Grandha'?

> > > > Do we have a clear definition? Yes! Sukra Neeti, a text

> > mentioned

> > > > even in the epic Mahabharata, provides a clear definition for

> > this

> > > > word, as quoted below -

> > > >

> > > > Those texts in which `God' is considered as the root cause

> > of

> > > > creation; those texts in which the difference between Dharma and

> > > > Adharma is clarified without considering Sruti or Smriti; such

> > > > texts are called `Yavana Grandha'. Where there prevails a

> > Dharamic

> > > > system that is different from the one that is depicted in

> > `Sruti',

> > > > it is known as `the opinion of Yavanas'.

> > > >

> > > > - Sukra Neeti

> > > >

> > > > `Sruti' is a word that refers to both `Agama' and `Nigama'

> > texts;

> > > > i.e. both Tantric and Vedic texts. Even though in the later

> > period

> > > > the word `Agama' is used to refer to `Jain texts' as well, in

> > the

> > > > ancient past of the text `Sukra Neeti' it must have been in use

> > to

> > > > refer to the original Agama steam which is nothing but `Saiva

> > > > Agama', the Tantric system followed in civilizations like

> > Harappa.

> > > > `Sruti' and `Smriti' flourished as this side of Sarasvati river,

> > > > but on the other bank `Meluha' (Harappa) and its `Saiva Agama'

> > > > system was revered. Naturally any text or system originated

> > there

> > > > is `Yavana' (text outside the vedic stream; non-vedic), and the

> > > > people lived there `Mlecchha' (residents of Meluha city).

> > > >

> > > > Note that the period is BC 1400. By that time the Vedic

> > > > civilization (Deva worshipers) has fully flourished in the

> > region

> > > > between the rivers of Sarasvati and Ganges. Sarasvati was

> > already

> > > > dried out (Around BC 1900) and the Harappan civilization

> > collapsed.

> > > > Zaratushtra's renaissance to Asura culture of worshiping Ahur

> > Mazda

> > > > (Asura Medha = Asura Intelligence) as god was becoming popular,

> > and

> > > > Zend Avaste recited in Iran and Afghanistan - the remains of

> > > > Harappan knowledge. That Asura culture, and their knowledge of

> > > > Nirayana astrology was outside `Vedic stream', clearly non-

> > vedic.

> > > > Jains acquired or learned much from them, adopted much the

> > revered

> > > > god Siva, degenerated to Bhairava the gate keeper in Jain

> > temples,

> > > > Prajapati (Brahma) was raised to the power of ultimate god, and

> > the

> > > > turbulence of changing cultures continued. In such a scenario,

> > if

> > > > you find words such as Yavana - to whom it refers to?

> > > >

> > > > * It refers to the people lived outside India. (In the past this

> > > > word was used to refer initially to Harappans, then Persians

> > > > (Iran), Afghanistan and finally Greek)

> > > >

> > > > * The people who believed in god but followed a non-vedic

> > culture

> > > > (The vedic people had good respect for Yavana, because they

> > > > believed in god, even though followed non-vedic tradition)

> > > >

> > > > If this is the scenario, and if we could find words of seemingly

> > > > Greek origin like `Apoklima', `Panaphara', `Drekkana' etc in

> > > > astrological literature of by gone past, in even books of BC

> > 1400

> > > > origin such as Garga Hora and Parasara Hora - to whom these

> > words

> > > > and knowledge should be attributed to? To Greeks - who came to

> > > > India with Alexander around BC 350 only? Or to the great Asura

> > > > culture which once spanned Harappa, Assyria (Asura Rajya),

> > Persia

> > > > (Iran) and Gandhara (Afghanistan) once? I would prefer to

> > attribute

> > > > these non-vedic, mostly deteriorated sanscrit, words to the

> > Asura

> > > > culture. Note how Tri-Bhaga turns into Tri-Khanta => Dre-Khante

> > > > =>Drekkana and gets adopts back into Sanskrit in its new form,

> > but

> > > > with the same original meaning 1/3 rd of a Sign! Note that the

> > > > Indian meaning of many of such words are different from the

> > > > phonetically equivalent of their Greek terms. For example Taurus

> > is

> > > > Bull in Greek, but `Tavuru' (the equivalent term popular in

> > indian

> > > > astrology texts) means Camel! Similar comparison holds true for

> > > > many words. Thus instead of resorting to feeble theories of

> > Greek

> > > > origin of such `Yavana (school of) astrology' means `Greek

> > > > astrology'; it is better to understand the other possibility -

> > The

> > > > Asura culture (The culture prevailed in Harappa, Assyria, and

> > > > Persia) prior to the Greece must have contributed much to the

> > > > knowledge and vocabulary of both Greeks and Indians. Indians are

> > > > indebted to that Ancient Asura Tantric culture for this great

> > > > knowledge of Nirayana astrology and neither to Greeks nor to

> > vedic

> > > > civilization. As mentioned by Mihira, astrology is `Agama

> > > > Sastra' (Tantric knowledge) - a treasure maintained initially by

> > > > Saiva Agama tradition of Harappa (and possibly migrated to many

> > > > other places from there), then to Jain with in India, and from

> > them

> > > > to South India.

> > > >

> > > > Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja must be the keepers of this great

> > > > astrological wisdom of Zoroastrian religion (Gujarat is known as

> > > > Zourashtra - due to this association with Persia), the rudiments

> > of

> > > > Asura culture which worshiped Asura Medha. About `Sphujidhwaja

> > > > Hora' and `Meenaraja Hora' -

> > > >

> > > > * There is almost no evidence to show that they were Greeks

> > > >

> > > > * These books in way reflect the belief or culture of Greece.

> > > >

> > > > * There is no similar work available or known in Greek

> > > >

> > > > * These books is not written in Greek language.

> > > >

> > > > * These books does not mention any Greek teacher or god

> > > >

> > > > * These books never mention that they are translations (they are

> > > > original works by two kings lived in Gujarat)

> > > >

> > > > But still some stupid people argue that these books are

> > > > translations of some `unknown' Greek text! They start arguing

> > that

> > > > the whole of Indian astrology is or Greek origin! All the above

> > > > literary evidence regarding those books and the history of the

> > > > world is irrelevant to them! Blinded by western ego - they have

> > to

> > > > prove that that the whole Nirayana astrology came from Greece to

> > > > India - and many Indian Vedic fools are with them now! What a

> > > > catastrophe - to the knowledge India reveres! Note that the

> > Vedas

> > > > are revered but not the fools. Let us try to restate the

> > authority

> > > > and value of Nirayana Astrology a branch of `Agama Sastra' (Non-

> > > > Vedic Tantric knowledge) and study and systematically present

> > the

> > > > same - before those who really want to learn.

> > > >

> > > > We have deviated a lot by now from our major subject of

> > discussion

> > > > - i.e. `Lagna lord in various houses'. But I know it is worth

> > it.

> > > > Now, let us go back to our discussion and continue the same.

> > > >

> > > > The 11th house signifies things such as - gain, elder

> > brother,

> > > > left ear, journey, second wife etc. Thus the placement of lagna

> > > > lord in 10th generates special importance to the derivations

> > > > related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > >

> > > > ================================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the

> > hottest shows on TV.

> >

> >

>