Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 OM Datta GuruDear Sunil Nair,Sorry for the delay, I wonder if my reply would satisfy you but atleast in brief I can address it.> U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> ,absense of that how we can be for sure .SJ: U can refer to books of M.D.Bhatt from Maharashtra for starters one can get some method on how to use them. But to do that or find out any method we need to have an open mind and a still mind. So I wish u well.> May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets> in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> techniqs in astro .SJ: Kerela has given us lot of good astro material and produced brilliant astrologers but that cannot be the basis of our understanding of astrology Exploration. Kerela is not the end or start of astrology other parts of india have contributed a lot too, this is what i meant when i gave example of north and south.> U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r> not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among> them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> proktha knowledgeSJ: Yes they demonstrated to an eager audience, since the audience went to them. My belief is sitting on lists i never gained anything i had to go and meet traditionalists to gather something, so we must go and meet those who use the outer planets or any system if we do not go to them why would they come and teach us. Most of them are not into becoming scholars or Gurus, they are happy with what they are. A true knower of this science will never teach this science to a impure person, this city astrologers will not tell u but sanyasis will surely tell u. They know the sacredness of this science more than we do, we just call it sacred they follow it.> Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on> sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> goods--it is proved by NASASJ: I think we need to travel all over india to find out the answer to ur question whether a person can do astrology without charging and how his bills are paid. I have come across numerous such astrologers, at every district i find them and its not me but its common knowledge, i did not say anything new. There are hundreds and hundreds who do not charge for jyotish. In Delhi itself u would find many like this, they might be having their own other profession by which they sustain. Btw I have nothing against people who charge.All this is non academic discussion though important but pointless as over the years on the lists i have seen it being discussed thousands of times but nothing comes out of it except wastage of time.> I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like> marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from> rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .SJ: That young man has curly hair and is round faced, I met him in my last trip to Delhi while he was at Rao Sahebs house. Had good discussion with him. I have not seen such a good bhakt of Jyotishn n so well cultured, no doubt the Maharishi has blessed him. He deserves to know the secrets. I saw the love for jyotish in his eyes and also he was so serene just pure bliss on his face.Rao Saheb also does not charge money for his jyotish, i guess he gets his pension & also earnings from his books.> And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> --what he got being a spiritual indian .SJ: I fail to understand how come in so many above paragraphs written by you money aspect of jyotish has crept it so strongly. I myself might want donation of money to get translated some rare works but who is going to give me that money, i can cry about it or just improve my karma and wait for Maharishi to bless and he may choose not to, depending on my fate I guess. the way I look at it whether we are to gain money or not from jyotish is again our karma and we should not blame it to people not paying etc. > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u> pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a> right to liv a decent life .SJ: Ofcourse I know there are good pundits and they need money, what needs to be done with them I am already doing by the help of my friends & whatever little i can do.> Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here> ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This> post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .SJ: Ofcourse no hurt taken, I understand u well and am also aware maybe why u took 2 days to write to me.Now due to shortage of time i could only browse some mails on outer planets. those interested can seek it furthera) Jan 2006 Astrological Magazine Kapila Nadi reference is given though we can wish to argue about itb) In Jan 2005 AM issue, there is a mention of a book published from someone from Satara wherein he has reached and used it in dasas etc, whats his basis I do not know but i tried my level best to procure that book and could not. If u or anyone has is interested u can go for it and find out the basis and if it works or not.If anyone knows the detailed diagram of Sushumur Chakra I request them to pls write to me privately at jjnet2000_in Pls allow me to sign out of this list, I have spent 3 weeks on 2 lists and lot of time has been expended, would prefer to go back to my shell of astro studies in whatever little time I get. I hope u understand my love for my jyotish studies is far more than endless non conclusive discussion though if something good comes out of it and inspires the young ones then it has served its purpose.Sunil I am searching for the authentic Dhruva Nadi, if u or anyone who knows a source pls let me know. I shall be grateful.best wishesSunil JohnMumbai , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > Hare ramakrishna,> > dear sunil john and robertji,> >> Now to sri sunil john> > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets> in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> techniqs in astro .> > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r> not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among> them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> proktha knowledge> > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on> sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> goods--it is proved by NASA> > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its> society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and> by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur> expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body> wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and> efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural> death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas.> > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like> marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from> rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> --what he got being a spiritual indian .> > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u> pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a> right to liv a decent life .> > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i demands> every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual approach> and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont worry> abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a> subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside --> > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing> successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body> --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some yogas> and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he> happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my> time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and i> dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped me> .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a business> man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am> not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details or> books> > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was using,they> r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this sloka> business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of> knowledge.> > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here> ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This> post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am only> interested to keep the subjuct alive .> > wishing u all the best> > regrds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalxami namah.> > > > > , "jjnet2000_in"> jjnet2000_in@ wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> >> > Dear Robert,> > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark> but> > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker> of> > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> > should we alter our thinking.> >> > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside> and> > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> >> > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness> first> > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> > predictors of mundane astrology.> >> > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> > sanskrit.> >> > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree> to> > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different> opinions> > among rishis> >> > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used> to> > use the Outer Planets.> >> > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see> his> > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to> take> > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not> have> > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer> Planets.> > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats> the> > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would> learn> > astrology' - he told me.> >> > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya> is> > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my> efforts> > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> >> > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a> certain> > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> >> > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People> on> > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing> and> > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything> that> > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> > hide behind his back.> > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say,> this> > Uranus works and it works too well'.> >> > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can> we> > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not> we> > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> > science.> >> > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the> highest> > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy,> want> > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime.> Even> > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess> they> > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> > face.> >> > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk> or> > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> > 100 charts.> >> > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> > Absurdity'> >> > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I> do> > not have the time or inclination to read it.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> > >> > > Namah Shivaya> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > >> > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > >> > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > >> > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect> (as> > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well> as> > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to> our> > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > >> > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > >> > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming> a> > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > >> > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > >> > > Robert> > >> > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > >> > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > >> > > >dear robertji,> > > >> > > > Thanks for your post.> > > >> > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > > >--line of concerned books.> > > >> > > >my observations.> > > >> > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > >> > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > >> > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of> results.> > > >> > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not> identified> > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > >> > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira> describes> > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this> planets> > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > >> > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or> some> > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > >> > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses> extra> > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > astrologers> > > >> > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > >> > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > >> > > >pls produce textual support.> > > >> > > >regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > >> > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > >> > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on> another> > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > >> > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto> are> > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > >> > > > > Best regards,> > > > > Robert Koch> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > >> > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> > to> > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > >************************************************> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> > Bhava Chart> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > brilliant> > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use> dashas.> > I agree> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to> be> > used to> > > > > > > give> > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ...> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > ancient> > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the> originals.> > That is> > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> > well. But> > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India> use> > bhava> > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> > make> > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > & !> > > >gt;>>> > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> > right to> > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of> Bhava> > Chart> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> > is the> > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> > originated> > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> > misleading> > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate> chart> > not> > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > following file> > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > >>>>> > > >> > Sreenadh/> > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > non-existent things> > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying> to> > > > understand> > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> > any> > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> > is not my> > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > & !> > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna,> Ju> > in> > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the> ancient> > concept;> > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > interpret Sign> > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> > try to> > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava> Chart.> > Do this> > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen> mentioning> > of bhava> > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> > Planetary> > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> > What is> > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > signs in Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; How> > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> > above> > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>> & !> > > >gt;> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, dear sri sunil johnji, Thanks for the reply ,yes your reply did not satisafy me ,as i joined this grp or any other astro groups is not to giv free predictions or get future customers as i am full time into astrology .But to discuss some principles and share and if possible mutualy contribute as i blve sharing and discussing will improve oneself only .Because if some one is very serious this cannot be done by single handed effort or in one s life time may be. My reply regrding outer planets ,yes i do search many and i told u one naadi group who uses successfully and they use some thing like KP system .ONly if planets connected to dasa lords ,as they dont use any outer planets dasa s,yes some yogas with some planets they take as pointers in chart.Not in transits .I dont know if it can be used for mundane as my one full day discussion with guruji ,we just discussed many individual charts only.I was not just sitting in groups and some body to answer me . I never highlighted kerala parampara is end of astrology ,which i know like the lines in my hand ,so i used my experince to share u . AS far as free astrology its a wrong notion and its giving a wrong message ,it has contributed to corrossion of astrology in high level after mechalysation in indian education sistem ,as no future bright guys will come to astro and take it as a profession full time ,i am not mentioning abt hobbyists or who do part time .As they hav option to do or not .Or adress a persons needs or not .I am sitting in holy land of free astrology called delhi where majority of astrologers are doing free and fleecing ,as they r not astrologers (jyothishacharyas ) they r upayacharyas ,U go and tell him ur problem he charges u for only upay and repeat this futile exercise many times with others again free astrologers till ur dasa over and or god realy helps u .All mandirs whether small or big is full of pundits who dont charge any thing for reading the charts ,and who dont know anything abt astro and even mantras which is their primary profession.They open ur charts and say this bad yoga and that bad yoga and say upay karo ,havan karo ,mantra jap karo >and mantras r what --------do vishnu shasranama 21/2 lac times for your bad 7 years mars dasa ,by the time if u sincerly do it u will land in rahu dasa .So cleints will say --punditji aap karo --and he gives 2000 or some amount and both r happy .This is the level of free astro here.i hav 1000 personal examples with proof how free astro is lucrativ than u charge and do your work sincerely.But u shud not think abt your karma .And even ppl of higher intellectual strata also falls for this kind of trap and they also think if u charge ---u r not genuine astrologer. Regrding M D dutts books i will search.But many write ups in many astro magazines r half cooked post mortem theoreys ,which i find when i got a computer and softwares then leav even testing many authors who ever comes out with neo theoreys as i find even the charts used is twisted in many occassions .Many famous and branded are not exception in this cases or they switch birth time in the name of corrections. any way thanks ,dont bother to reply me in otherwise busy shedule of yours. regds sunil nair om shreem mahalamxai namah. Ps .i am closing this thread and i would be thanks full to any body --pls dont take this discussion further. , "jjnet2000_in" <jjnet2000_in wrote:>> OM Datta Guru> > Dear Sunil Nair,> Sorry for the delay, I wonder if my reply would satisfy you but atleast> in brief I can address it.> > > > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> > ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> > SJ: U can refer to books of M.D.Bhatt from Maharashtra for starters one> can get some method on how to use them. But to do that or find out any> method we need to have an open mind and a still mind. So I wish u well.> > > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these> planets> > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> > techniqs in astro .> > SJ: Kerela has given us lot of good astro material and produced> brilliant astrologers but that cannot be the basis of our understanding> of astrology Exploration. Kerela is not the end or start of astrology> other parts of india have contributed a lot too, this is what i meant> when i gave example of north and south.> > > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own> > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they> r> > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge> .Among> > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> > proktha knowledge> > SJ: Yes they demonstrated to an eager audience, since the audience went> to them. My belief is sitting on lists i never gained anything i had to> go and meet traditionalists to gather something, so we must go and meet> those who use the outer planets or any system if we do not go to them> why would they come and teach us. Most of them are not into becoming> scholars or Gurus, they are happy with what they are. A true knower of> this science will never teach this science to a impure person, this city> astrologers will not tell u but sanyasis will surely tell u. They know> the sacredness of this science more than we do, we just call it sacred> they follow it.> > > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> >> > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives> on> > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> > goods--it is proved by NASA> > SJ: I think we need to travel all over india to find out the answer to> ur question whether a person can do astrology without charging and how> his bills are paid. I have come across numerous such astrologers, at> every district i find them and its not me but its common knowledge, i> did not say anything new. There are hundreds and hundreds who do not> charge for jyotish. In Delhi itself u would find many like this, they> might be having their own other profession by which they sustain. Btw I> have nothing against people who charge.> All this is non academic discussion though important but pointless as> over the years on the lists i have seen it being discussed thousands of> times but nothing comes out of it except wastage of time.> > > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life> like> > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is> from> > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> > SJ: That young man has curly hair and is round faced, I met him in my> last trip to Delhi while he was at Rao Sahebs house. Had good discussion> with him. I have not seen such a good bhakt of Jyotishn n so well> cultured, no doubt the Maharishi has blessed him. He deserves to know> the secrets. I saw the love for jyotish in his eyes and also he was so> serene just pure bliss on his face.> Rao Saheb also does not charge money for his jyotish, i guess he gets> his pension & also earnings from his books.> > > > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> > --what he got being a spiritual indian .> > SJ: I fail to understand how come in so many above paragraphs written by> you money aspect of jyotish has crept it so strongly. I myself might> want donation of money to get translated some rare works but who is> going to give me that money, i can cry about it or just improve my karma> and wait for Maharishi to bless and he may choose not to, depending on> my fate I guess. the way I look at it whether we are to gain money or> not from jyotish is again our karma and we should not blame it to people> not paying etc.> > > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only> u> > pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has> a> > right to liv a decent life .> SJ: Ofcourse I know there are good pundits and they need money, what> needs to be done with them I am already doing by the help of my friends> & whatever little i can do.> > > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom> here> > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also> .This> > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> > SJ: Ofcourse no hurt taken, I understand u well and am also aware maybe> why u took 2 days to write to me.> > Now due to shortage of time i could only browse some mails on outer> planets. those interested can seek it further> > a) Jan 2006 Astrological Magazine Kapila Nadi reference is given though> we can wish to argue about it> b) In Jan 2005 AM issue, there is a mention of a book published from> someone from Satara wherein he has reached and used it in dasas etc,> whats his basis I do not know but i tried my level best to procure that> book and could not. If u or anyone has is interested u can go for it and> find out the basis and if it works or not.> > If anyone knows the detailed diagram of Sushumur Chakra I request them> to pls write to me privately at jjnet2000_in > Pls allow me to sign out of this list, I have spent 3 weeks on 2 lists> and lot of time has been expended, would prefer to go back to my shell> of astro studies in whatever little time I get.> > I hope u understand my love for my jyotish studies is far more than> endless non conclusive discussion though if something good comes out of> it and inspires the young ones then it has served its purpose.> > Sunil I am searching for the authentic Dhruva Nadi, if u or anyone who> knows a source pls let me know. I shall be grateful.> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> > > > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> >> > Hare ramakrishna,> >> > dear sunil john and robertji,> >> >> > Now to sri sunil john> >> > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> > ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> >> > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these> planets> > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> > techniqs in astro .> >> > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own> > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they> r> > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge> .Among> > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> > proktha knowledge> >> > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> >> > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives> on> > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> > goods--it is proved by NASA> >> > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its> > society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and> > by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur> > expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body> > wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and> > efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural> > death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas.> >> > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life> like> > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is> from> > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> >> > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> > --what he got being a spiritual indian .> >> > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only> u> > pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has> a> > right to liv a decent life .> >> > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i> demands> > every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual> approach> > and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont> worry> > abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a> > subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside --> >> > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing> > successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body> > --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some> yogas> > and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he> > happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my> > time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and> i> > dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped> me> > .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a> business> > man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am> > not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details> or> > books> >> > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was> using,they> > r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this> sloka> > business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of> > knowledge.> >> > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom> here> > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also> .This> > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> >> > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am> only> > interested to keep the subjuct alive .> >> > wishing u all the best> >> > regrds sunil nair> >> > om shreem mahalxami namah.> >> >> >> >> > , "jjnet2000_in"> > jjnet2000_in@ wrote:> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > >> > > Dear Robert,> > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark> > but> > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine> seeker> > of> > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer> Planets> > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently> in> > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books),> so> > > should we alter our thinking.> > >> > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if> outer> > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet> to> > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though> i> > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished> Bhrigu> > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside> > and> > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > >> > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness> > first> > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the> greatest> > > predictors of mundane astrology.> > >> > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business> see> > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it> is> > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can> anyone> > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> > > sanskrit.> > >> > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have> zero> > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not> agree> > to> > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different> > opinions> > > among rishis> > >> > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used> > to> > > use the Outer Planets.> > >> > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for> 25> > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see> > his> > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I> have> > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met> and> > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to> > take> > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I> always> > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not> > have> > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives> the> > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than> 14> > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer> > Planets.> > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats> > the> > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka> u> > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would> > learn> > > astrology' - he told me.> > >> > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya> > is> > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my> > efforts> > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > >> > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a> > certain> > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > >> > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as> per> > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha> Nadi> > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again.> People> > on> > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100> charts> > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing> > and> > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything> > that> > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is> not> > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless> to> > > hide behind his back.> > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say,> > this> > > Uranus works and it works too well'.> > >> > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs> blah> > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can> > we> > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not> > we> > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth> and> > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> > > science.> > >> > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the> > highest> > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy,> > want> > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting> themselves> > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime.> > Even> > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess> > they> > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man,> anyone> > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will> realise> > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at> his> > > face.> > >> > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk> > or> > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know> on> > > 100 charts.> > >> > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so> getting> > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> > > Absurdity'> > >> > > best wishes> > > Sunil John> > > Mumbai> > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail,> I> > do> > > not have the time or inclination to read it.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , Robert Koch rk@> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Namah Shivaya> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > > >> > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place> within> > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule?> Who> > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these> planets> > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table> as> > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological> practice,> > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort> to> > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and> then> > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or> not> > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > > >> > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling> of> > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune> and> > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect> > (as> > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on> the> > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact> is,> > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart,> you> > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing> it> > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well> > as> > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to> > our> > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > > >> > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > > >> > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To> dismiss> > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of> charts,> > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it> only> > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than> becoming> > a> > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the> astrologer> > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the> science> > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > > >> > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > > >> > > > Robert> > > >> > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > > >> > > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > > >> > > > >dear robertji,> > > > >> > > > > Thanks for your post.> > > > >> > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > > > >--line of concerned books.> > > > >> > > > >my observations.> > > > >> > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > > >> > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > > >> > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of> > results.> > > > >> > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not> > identified> > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > > >> > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira> > describes> > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha> kodi> > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this> > planets> > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > > >> > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method> by> > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could> not> > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or> > some> > > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > > >> > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses> > extra> > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > > astrologers> > > > >> > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > > >> > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > > >> > > > >pls produce textual support.> > > > >> > > > >regrds sunil nair> > > > >> > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > > >> > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do> not> > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on> > another> > > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto> > are> > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Robert Koch> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > >> > > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the> right> > > to> > > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > > >************************************************> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> > > Bhava Chart> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > > brilliant> > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use> > dashas.> > > I agree> > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need> to> > be> > > used to> > > > > > > > give> > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to> go.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ...> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > > ancient> > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the> > originals.> > > That is> > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > \> > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit> as> > > well. But> > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India> > use> > > bhava> > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does> not> > > make> > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > > & !> > > > >gt;>>> > > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include> the> > > right to> > > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > \> > > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of> > Bhava> > > Chart> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart> itself> > > is the> > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate> entity> > > originated> > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It> is> > > misleading> > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate> > chart> > > not> > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > > following file> > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > >> Sreenadh/> > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > > non-existent things> > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying> > to> > > > > understand> > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And> therefore> > > any> > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as> sign,> > > is not my> > > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > & !> > > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava> (own> > > sign).> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna,> > Ju> > > in> > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and> is> > > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the> > ancient> > > concept;> > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde> and> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > > interpret Sign> > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> > next> > > file on> > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I> will> > > try to> > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > \> > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava> > Chart.> > > Do this> > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen> > mentioning> > > of bhava> > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while> mentioning> > > Planetary> > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala> astrologers.> > > What is> > > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > > signs in Rasi> > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava> (own> > > sign).> > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > >t; How> > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > > discussions on> > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde> and> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on> the> > > above> > > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> > next> > > file on> > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>> & !> > > > >gt;> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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