Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Kannan ji, There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not supported by ancient sages. You can find more info regarding the same from the following file present in the file section of the group. URL: Sreenadh/ Signs and Houses.pdf As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my domain] ==> > For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). <== As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; and the result derivation would be as per that. ==> > In continuation to our earlier discussions on > Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > in this case. <== That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. ==> > Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > birth time rectification. <== Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. Love, Sreenadh , " kankan_73 " <kankan_73 wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is the > result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > and Bhava. > > For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). How > do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on > Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign in > this case. > > I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > example. > > Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > birth time rectification. > > Thanks & regards, > Kannan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Sreenadhji, Thanks for the clarifications. Beginners like me are encountering many misleading concepts in the path of learning. Learned men can correct us and route in the right path. You may write more on how to interpret Sign and Navamsa results when you have time. Regards, Kannan , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kannan ji, > There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > supported by ancient sages. > You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > present in the file section of the group. > URL: > Sreenadh / > Signs and Houses.pdf > As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things > which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > domain] > > ==> > > For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > <== > As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > and the result derivation would be as per that. > > ==> > > In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > > in this case. > <== > That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > ==> > > Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > birth time rectification. > <== > Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > , " kankan_73 " > <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > > chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > > position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > > results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > the > > result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > > and Bhava. > > > > For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > How > > do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > in > > this case. > > > > I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > > example. > > > > Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > birth time rectification. > > > > Thanks & regards, > > Kannan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Sreenadh ji I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > sreesog > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > Dear Kannan ji, > There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > supported by ancient sages. > You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > present in the file section of the group. > URL: > Sreenadh/ > Signs and Houses.pdf > As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things > which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > domain] > > ==> >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > <== > As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > and the result derivation would be as per that. > > ==> >> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >> in this case. > <== > That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > ==> >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >> birth time rectification. > <== > Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > , " kankan_73 " > <kankan_73 wrote: >> >> Dear Sreenadh ji, >> >> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this >> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava >> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary >> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > the >> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi >> and Bhava. >> >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > How >> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > in >> this case. >> >> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above >> example. >> >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >> birth time rectification. >> >> Thanks & regards, >> Kannan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji, I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is the only thing I can say. Love, Sreenadh , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > sreesog > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > > > Dear Kannan ji, > > There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > > bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > > after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > > concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > supported by ancient sages. > > You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > > present in the file section of the group. > > URL: > > Sreenadh/ > > Signs and Houses.pdf > > As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things > > which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > > what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > > discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > > domain] > > > > ==> > >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > <== > > As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > > Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > > sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > > and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > ==> > >> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > >> in this case. > > <== > > That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > > and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > ==> > >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > >> birth time rectification. > > <== > > Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > > complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " kankan_73 " > > <kankan_73@> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Sreenadh ji, > >> > >> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > >> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > >> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > >> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > > the > >> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > >> and Bhava. > >> > >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > How > >> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on > >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > > in > >> this case. > >> > >> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > >> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > >> example. > >> > >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > >> birth time rectification. > >> > >> Thanks & regards, > >> Kannan > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Namaste Sreenadh, There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree with you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to give predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. .... On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Prafulla ji,I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancientIndian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That isthe only thing I can say. Love,Sreenadh , Prafulla Gang<jyotish wrote: >> Dear Sreenadh ji> > I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. ButIn my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhavachalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > regards / Prafulla Gang> http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right tobe taken seriously. " > ************************************************> > > > > > sreesog > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > > > Dear Kannan ji,> > There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > > bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated> > after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading> > concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > supported by ancient sages.> > You can find more info regarding the same from the following file> > present in the file section of the group.> > URL:> > Sreenadh/> > Signs and Houses.pdf> > As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things> > which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > > what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any> > discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my> > domain]> > > > ==>> >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > <==> > As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in> > Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > > sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept;> > and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > ==>> >> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> >> in this case.> > <== > > That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign> > and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > ==>> >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > >> birth time rectification.> > <==> > Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to> > complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > Love, > > Sreenadh> > > > > > , " kankan_73 " > > <kankan_73@> wrote:> >> > >> Dear Sreenadh ji,> >> > >> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > >> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava> >> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary> >> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > > the> >> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi> >> and Bhava.> >> > >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > How> >> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on> >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > in> >> this case.> >> > >> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> >> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > >> example.> >> > >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> >> birth time rectification.> >> > >> Thanks & regards, > >> Kannan> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Dear Sir Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another thread in another forum. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > navagraha > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree > with > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to > give > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > ... > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: >> >> Dear Prafulla ji, >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is >> the only thing I can say. >> Love, >> Sreenadh >> >> --- In >> <%40.\ com>, >> Prafulla Gang >> <jyotish wrote: >>> >>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>> >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? >>> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>> http://www.prafulla.net >>> >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to >> be taken seriously. " >>> ************************************************ >>> >>> >>>> >>>> sreesog >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 >>>> To: >>>> <%40.\ com> >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>>> >>>> Dear Kannan ji, >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not >>>> supported by ancient sages. >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file >>>> present in the file section of the group. >>>> URL: >>>> Sreenadh/ >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my >>>> domain] >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>> <== >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>>> in this case. >>>> <== >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>> birth time rectification. >>>> <== >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. >>>> Love, >>>> Sreenadh >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In >>>> <%40.\ com>, >> " kankan_73 " >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, >>>>> >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is >>>> the >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi >>>>> and Bhava. >>>>> >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>> How >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>> in >>>>> this case. >>>>> >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above >>>>> example. >>>>> >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>> Kannan >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Namaste Prafulla, At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: Dear Sir Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another thread in another forum. Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. Best regards, Robert Koch regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > navagraha > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree > with > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to > give > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > ... > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: >> >> Dear Prafulla ji, >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is >> the only thing I can say. >> Love, >> Sreenadh >> >> --- In >> <%40>, >> Prafulla Gang >> <jyotish wrote: >>> >>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>> >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? >>> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>> http://www.prafulla.net >>> >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to >> be taken seriously. " >>> ************************************************ >>> >>> >>>> >>>> sreesog >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 >>>> To: >>>> <%40> >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>>> >>>> Dear Kannan ji, >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not >>>> supported by ancient sages. >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file >>>> present in the file section of the group. >>>> URL: >>>> Sreenadh/ >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my >>>> domain] >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>> <== >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>>> in this case. >>>> <== >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. >>>> >>>> ==> >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>> birth time rectification. >>>> <== >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. >>>> Love, >>>> Sreenadh >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In >>>> <%40>, >> " kankan_73 " >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, >>>>> >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is >>>> the >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi >>>>> and Bhava. >>>>> >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>> How >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>> in >>>>> this case. >>>>> >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above >>>>> example. >>>>> >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>> Kannan >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Pandit ji, There could be hundreds of prediction methods - tarots, cards, sticks, palmistry, face reading, ( or hypnosis, telepathy any body at any moment may come up with new tricks arguing that it is useful for prediction), astrology, intuition, upasana (or there could be many more new arguments)....etc. Astrology is in a real mess - a good subject with a good theoretical foundation messed up due to people who don't go value the sages, and go after all kind of absurdities, just to become popular or to make money. The essence of many minor and major traditional and non-traditional knowledge branches, is at stake due to them. In between there would be some one who mixes the tradition and non-traditional (destroying both), or mixes the various branches of knowledge in the most illogical way (destroying both); but still able to make correct predictions and impress others - it is good for their life and success; but hazardous for that knowledge branch itself. There could be various scenarios. So the point is what we want to be. There could be two paths one may select - 1) Select to be successful, who cares about the knowledge branches and their essence, base etc? (The only thing is - my prediction should come true) 2) It is the knowledge branches that is important, their essence and foundation should be projected - if valuable, and useful to posterity - in an uncorrupted way; why bother about own success of failure? (that is not important; i got other livelihood) Then it all depends on which path we select - and the choice is important. If we don't know this distinction, if we don't see our choice and path clear...then it could cause confusion. Now for me the choice is clear - and that makes the difference. Some English poet said - " The two roads diverged in an wood, I took the one less traveled by and that has made all the difference " Yes, it is our choice - which path to select and which not; and the choice makes all the difference. Everybody has their own choice - and it decides and answers the question - " was this individual valuable; should his works be saved to posterity? " - it is time who asks and asks and decides on this question; and the results we can see all around us. Love, Sreenadh , Panditji <navagraha wrote: > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree with > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to give > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > ... > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla ji, > > I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient > > Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is > > the only thing I can say. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > Prafulla Gang > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But > > In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava > > chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make > > sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > > be taken seriously. " > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreesog@ > > > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > To: <% 40> > > > > Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > Dear Kannan ji, > > > > There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > > > > bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > > > > after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > > > > concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > > > supported by ancient sages. > > > > You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > > > > present in the file section of the group. > > > > URL: > > > > Sreenadh / > > > > Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > As you could see there is no point in discussing non- existent things > > > > which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > > > > what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > > > > discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > > > > domain] > > > > > > > > ==> > > > >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > > > <== > > > > As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > > > > Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > > > > sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > > > > and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > > > ==> > > > >> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > > >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > > > >> in this case. > > > > <== > > > > That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > > > > and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > > > > ==> > > > >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > > >> birth time rectification. > > > > <== > > > > Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > > > > complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " kankan_73 " > > > > <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > >> > > > >> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > > > >> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > > > >> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > > > >> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > > > > the > > > >> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > > > >> and Bhava. > > > >> > > > >> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > > >> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > > > How > > > >> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > >> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > > >> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > > > > in > > > >> this case. > > > >> > > > >> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > >> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > > > >> example. > > > >> > > > >> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > > >> birth time rectification. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks & regards, > > > >> Kannan > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji, ==> > Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > remember.. <== I don't think it would be there in nadi texts - if not made up. If you go by the originals (ask for the source and quote in Sanskrit or Tamil), you may find that those are made up stories. If you don't want to...then that is another case..By the way, I am yet to see any such reference. The knowledgeable may help me by providing the actual quote with reference. Love, Sreenadh , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sir > > Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another thread in another forum. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > navagraha > > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree > > with > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to > > give > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > ... > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > >> > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is > >> the only thing I can say. > >> Love, > >> Sreenadh > >> > >> --- In > >> <% 40>, > >> Prafulla Gang > >> <jyotish@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > >>> > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > >>> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > >>> > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > >> be taken seriously. " > >>> ************************************************ > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> sreesog@ > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > >>>> To: > >>>> <% 40> > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > >>>> > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > >>>> URL: > >>>> Sreenadh / > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > >>>> domain] > >>>> > >>>> ==> > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > >>>> <== > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > >>>> > >>>> ==> > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > >>>>> in this case. > >>>> <== > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > >>>> > >>>> ==> > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > >>>>> birth time rectification. > >>>> <== > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > >>>> Love, > >>>> Sreenadh > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --- In > >>>> <% 40>, > >> " kankan_73 " > >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > >>>>> > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > >>>> the > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > >>>>> and Bhava. > >>>>> > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > >>>> How > >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > >>>> in > >>>>> this case. > >>>>> > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > >>>>> example. > >>>>> > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > >>>>> birth time rectification. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > >>>>> Kannan > >>>>> > >>>> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Robert, Many thanks for the reference. Yes - Vasishta Nadi was referred on the thread. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > rk > Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:35:08 -0700 > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > Namaste Prafulla, > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > >Dear Sir >> > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > >thread in another forum. > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > Best regards, > Robert Koch > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > >http://www.prafulla.net >> > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > >be taken seriously. " > >************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> navagraha >>> Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 >>> >>> Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>> >>> Namaste Sreenadh, >>> >>> There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant >>> predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree >>> with >>> you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. >>> >>> I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to >>> give >>> predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> On 7/4/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Prafulla ji, >>>> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient >>>> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is >>>> the only thing I can say. >>>> Love, >>>> Sreenadh >>>> >>>> --- In >>>> >> <%40.\ com>, >>>> Prafulla Gang >>>> <jyotish wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>>> >>>>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But >>>> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava >>>> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make >>>> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? >>>>> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>>> >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to >>>> be taken seriously. " >>>>> ************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> sreesog >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 >>>>>> To: >>>>>> >> <%40.\ com> >>>>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Kannan ji, >>>>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the >>>>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated >>>>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading >>>>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not >>>>>> supported by ancient sages. >>>>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file >>>>>> present in the file section of the group. >>>>>> URL: >>>>>> Sreenadh/ >>>>>> Signs and Houses.pdf >>>>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things >>>>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to >>>>>> understand >>>>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any >>>>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my >>>>>> domain] >>>>>> >>>>>> ==> >>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>>>> <== >>>>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in >>>>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in >>>>>> Capricorn >>>>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; >>>>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. >>>>>> >>>>>> ==> >>>>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>>>>> in this case. >>>>>> <== >>>>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign >>>>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. >>>>>> >>>>>> ==> >>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>> <== >>>>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to >>>>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. >>>>>> Love, >>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In >>>>>> >> <%40.\ com>, >>>> " kankan_73 " >>>>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this >>>>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava >>>>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary >>>>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is >>>>>> the >>>>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi >>>>>>> and Bhava. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>>>> How >>>>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in >>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>>>> in >>>>>>> this case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >>>>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above >>>>>>> example. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>>>> Kannan >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hare rama krishna, dear robertji, Thanks for your post. But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page --line of concerned books. my observations. 1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . 3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. 4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified again important in vedic style of delination of results. And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes --there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi ---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets can influence in ecliptical path of earth . Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some for software ,so i leav it Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. pls produce textual support. regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , Robert Koch <rk wrote:>> Namaste Prafulla,> > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> >Dear Sir> >> >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > >thread in another forum.> > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > Best regards,> Robert Koch> > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> >http://www.prafulla.net> >> >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > >be taken seriously."> >************************************************> >> >> > > > > > navagraha > > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > >> > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > >> > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant> > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree> > > with> > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > >> > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to> > > give> > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > >> > > ...> > >> > >> > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog wrote:> > >>> > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient> > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is> > >> the only thing I can say.> > >> Love,> > >> Sreenadh> > >>> > >> --- In> > >> > > <%40>,> > >> Prafulla Gang> > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > >>>> > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > >>>> > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But> > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava> > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make> > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > >>>> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > >>>> > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to> > >> be taken seriously."> > >>> ************************************************> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> sreesog@> > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > >>>> To:> > >>>> > > <%40>> > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > >>>>> > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself is the> > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated> > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading> > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not> > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file> > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > >>>> URL:> > >>>> Sreenadh/> > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things> > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand> > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any> > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my> > >>>> domain]> > >>>>> > >>>> ==>> > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > >>>> <==> > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in> > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn> > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept;> > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > >>>>> > >>>> ==>> > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > >>>>> in this case.> > >>>> <==> > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign> > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > >>>>> > >>>> ==>> > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > >>>> <==> > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to> > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > >>>> Love,> > >>>> Sreenadh> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> --- In> > >>>> > > <%40>,> > >> "kankan_73"> > >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote:> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this> > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava> > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary> > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is> > >>>> the> > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi> > >>>>> and Bhava.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > >>>> How> > >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > >>>> in> > >>>>> this case.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above> > >>>>> example.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > >>>>> Kannan> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, As I know you have recently been to tamil nadu, you must have seen the ultra-modern-nadi readers in viteeswaran coil (the birth place of nadi readings). I know that you must have noticed the the modern nadi names - * Critu Nadi (Nadi by Christ!) * Nabi Nadi (Nadi by Md. Nabi!) etc as well. I have a complete text (but of modern origin), which gives predictions for Hershel, Neptune, Pluto in chaste Sanskrit (i am copying somebody's words); but you might have guessed it is a translation effort by a recently lived good scholar from English to Sanskrit. I can foresee somebody taking it up to argue that the prediction for all these is given by ancient Indian astrological texts; or to say that the sages considered these planets as well. So don't worry; anything can happen. There is only one hope - it is pretty difficult to make up Sanskrit slokas - it needs scholarly knowledge. But it is easy to resort to and make up some nadi slokas - because still the language is in use; and a good training of 4 years make instant nadi verses for reading purpose can be of great use in creating 'ancient' Nabi nadi'.. Ha..Ha.. You know if it could happen, no wonder you may see 'Vasishta Nadi', 'Kapil Nadi' or (who is there in the rishi list to whom a Nadi is not ascribed to? catch him and let us put my nadi in his name!) and all the other kinds of nadis in 'chaste Tamil' (I don't know whether the usage is correct) with all kinds of reference. And the poor original Tamil scholar will start crying - and the poor modern scholars who can neither understand 'Sanskrit' not 'Tamil' will refer to them from groups to groups (why? there should be a reason) - spread the word! spead the word! - here I found! and it is useful. And the life continues... as usual... A story: Think that somebody wants to find and use a system to predict event on earth at all longitudes and latitudes. Let us see what would happen - if some of our friends are assigned the task. * Krishnal Koul ji will reject the idea itself as absurd because there is no Vedic reference for the same, and also because the methods described in ancient texts is not perfect, seem to conflict, and does not go with the modern knowledge. He will form a committee to spread the word - and stat arguing fiercely against this absurd, illogical, ignorant, 'so called' astrologers who deviate people from the truly scientific path shown by the vedic sages. He will say - " You should know that there could be no latitude and longitudes', nether the vedas refer them, nor the texts that mention them are consistent. You go and see at the locations mentioned in Brihat samhita, dear people you could see by your own eyes that there is no latitude or longitudes there - it is just plane earth just like I see all around! " Don't worry - what he says would be the innermost essence - the fearful skeleton of the ancient oldest past; and better to keep away from it. There is no life; the skeleton is fearful. * Patricia ji will - easily make up a theory with sum Jung archetypes, some of the rudiments of here past readings, news paper reports, some blavisky theories, filling the gaps well with good imagination. And for sure the theory will look perfect from outside. (Don't go inside - it is all messy cut past confusion). Well done! She won't even take 2 days to makeup the system! Good work - better than a fiction writer! But what you get would be a jelly fish with no borne inside. Try digesting - it will dissolve into thin air. It is beautiful, commercial, showpiece to be put in show case with the warning - " Not for use! " . These are two extremes as you can see - one ripping off everything and the other creating things from thin air. Good that they are neither archeologists nor scientists - otherwise many peoples life had become troublesome; and the Harappa (No harappa existed - Kaul; Harppa had created the rocket science - Patricia) a truly lost civilization. It is good that they have limited there effort one to vedic calendar and the other to cosmic astrology. It is very difficult to find the true researches whose path is somewhere beyond these two extremes. Searching collecting, studying, co-relating, finding supporting evidence from all branches of knowledge, and poor man - he will fail to produce the perfect " comprehensive theory to predict the future of earth " But as you could see - he is better dependable and sincere - even though he may not have answers to many questions. Neither can he create the complete theories in 2 days nor can he reject everything completely. He is in the middle, uncertain, still searching, still seeking...I think at least some of the true seekers fall into this group. Look at Panditji, even after all these years of study, he don't have a conclusive answer in many things. He can't be - because he is sincere. The same goes true for Chandra Hari, the same is true for .... I know most of the members in this group will see them selves in one of these categories or the gap in-between. But you see life is like that .. The verity makes life enjoyable...and they are all our friends.. Let some come up with the Nadi reference about Quantum physics, relativity, and hydrogen bomb; and let some others argue that the ALL nadi texts are made-up and created 10 years back... Some body with proper balance will come up and straighten thinks later.. and the life continues.. Enjoy! It is the world of astrology! P.S: Prafulla ji, and Robert ji and ok - because they are yet to see viteeswaran coil, yet to read the original reference from Tamil or Sanskrit; they are yet to fall into the great confusion of too many references and lack of references - and has good imagination. It is good if your could give them a ready solution (or they will make up one) And you see Ramdas ji is there to support. Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare rama krishna, > > dear robertji, > > Thanks for your post. > > But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha should we > go by some stray references which quoted by some one in some group or we > shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or sanskrit ,as most of > naadis in this laungage and quote the page --line of concerned books. > > my observations. > > 1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is negligible > as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > 3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. > > 4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > --there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 planets > and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi ---- like > this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets can influence > in ecliptical path of earth . > > Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of delhi > uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by one J C > LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not test it as > they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some for software > ,so i leav it > > Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN rao > challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers > > i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring the > time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > pls produce textual support. > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > >Dear Sir > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > >thread in another forum. > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > Best regards, > > Robert Koch > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > > >be taken seriously. " > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > brilliant > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I > agree > > > > with > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > used to > > > > give > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That > is > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > >> Love, > > > >> Sreenadh > > > >> > > > >> --- In > > > >> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > >>> > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. > But > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > bhava > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > >>> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > >>> > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > >>>> To: > > > >>>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com> > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is > the > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > originated > > > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > misleading > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following > file > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > >>>> URL: > > > >>>> > Sreenadh/ > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non- existent > things > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > understand > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is > not my > > > >>>> domain] > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed > in > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in > Capricorn > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > concept; > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own > sign > > > >>>>> in this case. > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret > Sign > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file > on > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try > to > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > >>>> Love, > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --- In > > > >>>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do > this > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of > bhava > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > Planetary > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What > is > > > >>>> the > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in > Rasi > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed > in > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > >>>> How > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions > on > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own > sign > > > >>>> in > > > >>>>> this case. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > > > >>>>> example. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file > on > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Namah Shivaya ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Mr. Nair, Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets has changed due to undeniable experience of their affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our awareness referencing these outer planets as well. However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then the latter should have come forward to prove their point. Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a person with that attitude toward his practice. With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - Robert At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: Hare rama krishna, dear robertji, Thanks for your post. But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page --line of concerned books. my observations. 1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . 3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. 4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified again important in vedic style of delination of results. And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes --there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi ---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets can influence in ecliptical path of earth . Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some for software ,so i leav it Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. pls produce textual support. regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , Robert Koch <rk wrote: > > Namaste Prafulla, > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > >Dear Sir > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > >thread in another forum. > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > Best regards, > Robert Koch > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > >be taken seriously. " > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > navagraha > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree > > > with > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to > > > give > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after ancient > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is > > >> the only thing I can say. > > >> Love, > > >> Sreenadh > > >> > > >> --- In > > >> > > <%40>, > > >> Prafulla Gang > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > >>> > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > >>> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > & ! gt;>> > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > > >> be taken seriously. " > > >>> ************************************************ > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> sreesog@ > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > >>>> To: > > >>>> > > <%40> > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart > > >>>> > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > >>>> URL: > > >>>> Sreenadh/ > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to understand > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my > > >>>> domain] > > >>>> > & ! gt; >>>> ==> > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > >>>> <== > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in Capricorn > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept; > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > >>>> > > >>>> ==> > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > >>>> <== > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > >>>> > > >>>> ==> > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > >>>> <== > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > >>>> Love, > > >>>> Sreenadh > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> --- In > > >>>> > > <%40>, > > >> " kankan_73 " > > >>> & g! t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is > > >>>> the > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). > > >>> & g! t; How > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier discussions on > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign > > >>>> in > > >>>>> this case. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > > >>>>> example. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > >>>>> Kannan > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> & ! gt; > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Sreenadh-ji, So, in three sentences or less, what in God's name are you trying to say, sir? Kind regards, Robert At 04:33 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: Dear Sunil ji, As I know you have recently been to tamil nadu, you must have seen the ultra-modern-nadi readers in viteeswaran coil (the birth place of nadi readings). I know that you must have noticed the the modern nadi names - * Critu Nadi (Nadi by Christ!) * Nabi Nadi (Nadi by Md. Nabi!) etc as well. I have a complete text (but of modern origin), which gives predictions for Hershel, Neptune, Pluto in chaste Sanskrit (i am copying somebody's words); but you might have guessed it is a translation effort by a recently lived good scholar from English to Sanskrit. I can foresee somebody taking it up to argue that the prediction for all these is given by ancient Indian astrological texts; or to say that the sages considered these planets as well. So don't worry; anything can happen. There is only one hope - it is pretty difficult to make up Sanskrit slokas - it needs scholarly knowledge. But it is easy to resort to and make up some nadi slokas - because still the language is in use; and a good training of 4 years make instant nadi verses for reading purpose can be of great use in creating 'ancient' Nabi nadi'.. Ha..Ha.. You know if it could happen, no wonder you may see 'Vasishta Nadi', 'Kapil Nadi' or (who is there in the rishi list to whom a Nadi is not ascribed to? catch him and let us put my nadi in his name!) and all the other kinds of nadis in 'chaste Tamil' (I don't know whether the usage is correct) with all kinds of reference. And the poor original Tamil scholar will start crying - and the poor modern scholars who can neither understand 'Sanskrit' not 'Tamil' will refer to them from groups to groups (why? there should be a reason) - spread the word! spead the word! - here I found! and it is useful. And the life continues... as usual... A story: Think that somebody wants to find and use a system to predict event on earth at all longitudes and latitudes. Let us see what would happen - if some of our friends are assigned the task. * Krishnal Koul ji will reject the idea itself as absurd because there is no Vedic reference for the same, and also because the methods described in ancient texts is not perfect, seem to conflict, and does not go with the modern knowledge. He will form a committee to spread the word - and stat arguing fiercely against this absurd, illogical, ignorant, 'so called' astrologers who deviate people from the truly scientific path shown by the vedic sages. He will say - " You should know that there could be no latitude and longitudes', nether the vedas refer them, nor the texts that mention them are consistent. You go and see at the locations mentioned in Brihat samhita, dear people you could see by your own eyes that there is no latitude or longitudes there - it is just plane earth just like I see all around! " Don't worry - what he says would be the innermost essence - the fearful skeleton of the ancient oldest past; and better to keep away from it. There is no life; the skeleton is fearful. * Patricia ji will - easily make up a theory with sum Jung archetypes, some of the rudiments of here past readings, news paper reports, some blavisky theories, filling the gaps well with good imagination. And for sure the theory will look perfect from outside. (Don't go inside - it is all messy cut past confusion). Well done! She won't even take 2 days to makeup the system! Good work - better than a fiction writer! But what you get would be a jelly fish with no borne inside. Try digesting - it will dissolve into thin air. It is beautiful, commercial, showpiece to be put in show case with the warning - " Not for use! " . These are two extremes as you can see - one ripping off everything and the other creating things from thin air. Good that they are neither archeologists nor scientists - otherwise many peoples life had become troublesome; and the Harappa (No harappa existed - Kaul; Harppa had created the rocket science - Patricia) a truly lost civilization. It is good that they have limited there effort one to vedic calendar and the other to cosmic astrology. It is very difficult to find the true researches whose path is somewhere beyond these two extremes. Searching collecting, studying, co-relating, finding supporting evidence from all branches of knowledge, and poor man - he will fail to produce the perfect " comprehensive theory to predict the future of earth " But as you could see - he is better dependable and sincere - even though he may not have answers to many questions. Neither can he create the complete theories in 2 days nor can he reject everything completely. He is in the middle, uncertain, still searching, still seeking...I think at least some of the true seekers fall into this group. Look at Panditji, even after all these years of study, he don't have a conclusive answer in many things. He can't be - because he is sincere. The same goes true for Chandra Hari, the same is true for .... I know most of the members in this group will see them selves in one of these categories or the gap in-between. But you see life is like that .. The verity makes life enjoyable...and they are all our friends.. Let some come up with the Nadi reference about Quantum physics, relativity, and hydrogen bomb; and let some others argue that the ALL nadi texts are made-up and created 10 years back... Some body with proper balance will come up and straighten thinks later.. and the life continues.. Enjoy! It is the world of astrology! P.S: Prafulla ji, and Robert ji and ok - because they are yet to see viteeswaran coil, yet to read the original reference from Tamil or Sanskrit; they are yet to fall into the great confusion of too many references and lack of references - and has good imagination. It is good if your could give them a ready solution (or they will make up one) And you see Ramdas ji is there to support. Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare rama krishna, > > dear robertji, > > Thanks for your post. > > But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha should we > go by some stray references which quoted by some one in some group or we > shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or sanskrit ,as most of > naadis in this laungage and quote the page --line of concerned books. > > my observations. > > 1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is negligible > as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > 3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. > > 4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > --there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 planets > and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi ---- like > this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets can influence > in ecliptical path of earth . > > Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of delhi > uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by one J C > LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not test it as > they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some for software > ,so i leav it > > Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN rao > challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers > > i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring the > time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > pls produce textual support. > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > >Dear Sir > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > >thread in another forum. > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > Best regards, > > Robert Koch > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > > >be taken seriously. " > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > brilliant > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I > agree > > > > with > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > used to > > > > give > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after ancient > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That > is > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > >> Love, > > > >> Sreenadh > > > >> > > > >> --- In > > > >> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > >>> > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. > But > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > bhava > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > >>> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > >>> > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > >>>> To: > > > >>>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com> > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is > the > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > originated > > > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > misleading > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following > file > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > >>>> URL: > > > >>>> > Sreenadh/ > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non- existent > things > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > understand > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is > not my > > > >>>> domain] > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed > in > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in > Capricorn > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > concept; > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own > sign > > > >>>>> in this case. > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret > Sign > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ==> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file > on > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > >>>> <== > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try > to > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > >>>> Love, > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --- In > > > >>>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do > this > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of > bhava > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > Planetary > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What > is > > > >>>> the > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in > Rasi > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed > in > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > >>>> How > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier discussions > on > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own > sign > > > >>>> in > > > >>>>> this case. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above > > > >>>>> example. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file > on > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hare rama krishna dear sreenathji and robertji , first to sreenath;- u expressed my concern that naadis can manufactured in some name ,as i hav lot of experince in my travels to south .There are lot of tricks of the trade and trying get noticed in crowd techniqs employed by readers .Even i could smell the techniqs ,now they r increasing like flies and now every city and corner in world has this suitcase naadi readers. So producing some words in some laungage wont be help ful as jagat guru adi sankara who was re established theorey of adwaita and u can find some books like apashudradhikaranm and sankara smriti which totaly contradicitng his messages and it was like bible of caste based hindu society once .Where adwaita see man and god as one . So the bookish or sanskrit shlokas will not solve the purpose --u beautifully said with your words. Now to sri-robertji sir i fully support your views for modernisation and bringing new thoughts and ideas to this science ,but my concern is in one human life --is it enough to propound one theorey and establish it in jyothisha.Another thing is that who has mastered all the techniqs which in disclosed and undisclosed and lying with parampara can only do further reserch and devlpment --i hope u may agree for it .Though i am not against any reserch on extra saturnian planets . U said pluto in lagna or in moon sign of a person will feel the change --i dont know what it is ,whether positiv or negetiv change In that case 1/6 of the total world population ( though i am not good in mathematics) will sufferring or enjoying and as pluto and this kind of planets stays more than 100 years (roughly or more --i hav to check it ) and do u think god is that liberal to some or cruel to others that gives a transit effect of 100 years and no chance of survival in case of this is giving negetiv effects in this present birth .Again i am ready to agree to mundane charts as present state of iraq who ever born there may not realy enjoy what they were enjoying --in next 100 years Also readers can double check with their known persons chart with this new theorey as if it is working pls let me know . Also ur reference to c s patel or any nadi literature --i am yet to find some one who givs a realy working model or if some one is so confident let them demonstrate it tru this forum.As i spent lot of money on books and dakshinas with lot of tis self proclaimed masters and who says holding the secrets ,off course here i must mention that i never interacted with c s patel personaly only tru books only .But i hav worst experince with many who wrote books in the name of naadis. hope u wont be objected regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , Robert Koch <rk wrote:>> Namah Shivaya> ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > Dear Mr. Nair,> > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > Robert> > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > >Hare rama krishna,> >> >dear robertji,> >> > Thanks for your post.> >> >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > >--line of concerned books.> >> >my observations.> >> >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> >> > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> >> >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> >> >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> >> >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> >> >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some > >for software ,so i leav it> >> >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers> >> >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> >> >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> >> >pls produce textual support.> >> >regrds sunil nair> >> >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , Robert Koch rk@ wrote:> > >> > > Namaste Prafulla,> > >> > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > >Dear Sir> > > >> > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> > > >thread in another forum.> > >> > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > >> > > Best regards,> > > Robert Koch> > >> > >> > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > >> > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to> > > >be taken seriously."> > > >************************************************> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > >> > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant> > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree> > > > > with> > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > >> > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to> > > > > give> > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > >> > > > > ...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > >>> > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after ancient> > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is> > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > >> Love,> > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > >>> > > > >> --- In> > > > >>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > >>>> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > >>>> > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But> > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava> > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make> > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > >>>> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > & !> >gt;>>> > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to> > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > >>>> To:> > > > >>>>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself is the> > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated> > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading> > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not> > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file> > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > >>>> URL:> > > > >>>> > > Sreenadh/> > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things> > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > understand> > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any> > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my> > > > >>>> domain]> > > > >>>>> > > & !> >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in> > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > in Capricorn> > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept;> > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign> > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to> > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> --- In> > > > >>>>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > >>> & g!> >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this> > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava> > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary> > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is> > > > >>>> the> > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi> > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > > > >>> & g!> >t; How> > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier discussions on> > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > > > >>>> in> > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above> > > > >>>>> example.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> & !> >gt;> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Robert, > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > affects. [Prafulla] Interesting. When time permits, please share some experiences. > Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > [Prafulla] Very well said. That is the only way - research scholars can work, unless they want to be just translators. Any method / interpretation has to be seen working in reasonable number of charts. > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > person with that attitude toward his practice. > [Prafulla] - very well said. I thoroughly enjoyed your mail. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " Men who never get carried away should be. " ************************************************ > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > >Hare rama krishna, >> > >dear robertji, >> >> Thanks for your post. >> > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > >--line of concerned books. >> > >my observations. >> > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi >> >> 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic >> seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . >> > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. >> > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. >> > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . >> > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some > >for software ,so i leav it >> > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers >> > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now >> > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. >> > >pls produce textual support. >> > >regrds sunil nair >> > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > , Robert Koch <rk > wrote: >>> >>> Namaste Prafulla, >>> >>> At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: >>> >Dear Sir >>>> >>> >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not >>> >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another >>> >thread in another forum. >>> >>> Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are >>> taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Robert Koch >>> >>> >>> >regards / Prafulla Gang >>> >http://www.prafulla.net >>>> >>> > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to >>> >be taken seriously. " >>> >************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> navagraha >>>>> ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 >>>>> >>>>> Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>>>> >>>>> Namaste Sreenadh, >>>>> >>>>> There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant >>>>> predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I >>>>> agree >>>>> with >>>>> you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. >>>>> >>>>> I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used >>>>> to >>>>> give >>>>> predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, >>>>>> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after ancient >>>>>> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is >>>>>> the only thing I can say. >>>>>> Love, >>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In >>>>>> >>>> >> <%40.\ com>, >>>>>> Prafulla Gang >>>>>> jyotish@ wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But >>>>>> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava >>>>>> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make >>>>>> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>> & ! > >gt;>> >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to >>>>>> be taken seriously. " >>>>>>> ************************************************ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> sreesog@ >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> >>>> >> <%40.\ com> >>>>>>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Kannan ji, >>>>>>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself is the >>>>>>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity >>>>>>>> originated >>> ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is >>> misleading >>>>>>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not >>>>>>>> supported by ancient sages. >>>>>>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file >>>>>>>> present in the file section of the group. >>>>>>>> URL: >>>>>>>> >> Sreenadh/ >>>>>>>> Signs and Houses.pdf >>>>>>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent >>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to >> understand >>>>>>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any >>>>>>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> domain] >>>>>>>> >>> & ! > >gt; >>>> ==> >>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in >>>>>>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is >> in Capricorn >>>>>>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient >>>>>>>> concept; >>>>>>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>> ! > >>>>> in this case. >>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign >>>>>>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to >>>>>>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. >>>>>>>> Love, >>>>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- In >>>>>>>> >>>> >> <%40.\ com>, >>>>>> " kankan_73 " >>>> >>> & g! > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of >>>>>>>>> bhava >>>>>>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning >>>>>>>>> Planetary >>>>>>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in >>>>>>>>> Rasi >>>>>>>>> and Bhava. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in >>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign). >>>> >>> & g! > >t; How >>>>>>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier discussions >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> this case. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >>>>>>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above >>>>>>>>> example. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on >>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>>>>>> Kannan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> & ! > >gt; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Sunil Nair ji > > Now to sri-robertji sir i fully support your views for modernisation > and bringing new thoughts and ideas to this science ,but my concern is > in one human life --is it enough to propound one theorey and establish > it in jyothisha.Another thing is that who has mastered all the techniqs > which in disclosed and undisclosed and lying with parampara can only do > further reserch and devlpment --i hope u may agree for it .Though i am > not against any reserch on extra saturnian planets . > [Prafulla] Yes time becomes the constraint..and more so, in the absence of complete knowledge (hidden in parampara). regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " Men who never get carried away should be. " ************************************************ > > > , Robert Koch <rk > wrote: >> >> Namah Shivaya >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Dear Mr. Nair, >> >> Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical >> than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too >> have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of >> Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within >> the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who >> is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets >> has changed due to undeniable experience of their >> affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as >> to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, >> rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to >> dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore >> new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then >> there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not >> or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. >> >> Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and >> enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various >> methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of >> reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and >> Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as >> an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the >> use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands >> until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, >> that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you >> will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that >> such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it >> in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various >> progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as >> western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our >> awareness referencing these outer planets as well. >> >> However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi >> astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then >> the latter should have come forward to prove their point. >> >> Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss >> or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and >> error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition >> of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and >> practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my >> technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not >> practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, >> then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only >> serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a >> vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer >> continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science >> alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a >> person with that attitude toward his practice. >> >> With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - >> >> Robert >> >> At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: >> >> >Hare rama krishna, >>> >> >dear robertji, >>> >>> Thanks for your post. >>> >> >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha >> >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in >> >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or >> >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page >> >--line of concerned books. >>> >> >my observations. >>> >> >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is >> >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi >>> >>> 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic >>> seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . >>> >> >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. >>> >> >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified >> >again important in vedic style of delination of results. >>> >> >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes >> >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 >> >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi >> >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets >> >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . >>> >> >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of >> >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by >> >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not >> >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some >> >for software ,so i leav it >>> >> >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN >> >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra >> >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > astrologers >>> >> >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring >> >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now >>> >> >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. >>> >> >pls produce textual support. >>> >> >regrds sunil nair >>> >> >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > , Robert Koch rk@ > wrote: >>>> >>>> Namaste Prafulla, >>>> >>>> At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: >>>> >Dear Sir >>>>> >>>> >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not >>>> >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another >>>> >thread in another forum. >>>> >>>> Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are >>>> taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Robert Koch >>>> >>>> >>>> >regards / Prafulla Gang >>>> >http://www.prafulla.net >>>>> >>>> > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to >>>> >be taken seriously. " >>>> >************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> navagraha@ >>>>>> ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 >>>>>> >>>>>> Re: Re: Importance of > Bhava Chart >>>>>> >>>>>> Namaste Sreenadh, >>>>>> >>>>>> There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > brilliant >>>>>> predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. > I agree >>>>>> with >>>>>> you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > used to >>>>>> give >>>>>> predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. >>>>>> >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, >>>>>>> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > ancient >>>>>>> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. > That is >>>>>>> the only thing I can say. >>>>>>> Love, >>>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- In >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, >>>>>>> Prafulla Gang >>>>>>> jyotish@ wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > well. But >>>>>>> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > bhava >>>>>>> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > make >>>>>>> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>>> & ! >> >gt;>> >>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right to >>>>>>> be taken seriously. " >>>>>>>> ************************************************ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sreesog@ >>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 >>>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Kannan ji, >>>>>>>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > is the >>>>>>>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > originated >>>> ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > misleading >>>>>>>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart > not >>>>>>>>> supported by ancient sages. >>>>>>>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > following file >>>>>>>>> present in the file section of the group. >>>>>>>>> URL: >>>>>>>>> >>> > Sreenadh/ >>>>>>>>> Signs and Houses.pdf >>>>>>>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > non-existent things >>>>>>>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to >>> understand >>>>>>>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > any >>>>>>>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > is not my >>>>>>>>> domain] >>>>>>>>> >>>> & ! >> >gt; >>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). >>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju > in >>>>>>>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is >>> in Capricorn >>>>>>>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > concept; >>>>>>>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign >>>> ! > >>>>> in this case. >>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > interpret Sign >>>>>>>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > try to >>>>>>>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. >>>>>>>>> Love, >>>>>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- In >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, >>>>>>> " kankan_73 " >>>>> >>> & g! >> >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. > Do this >>>>>>>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning > of bhava >>>>>>>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > Planetary >>>>>>>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > What is >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > signs in Rasi >>>>>>>>>> and Bhava. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). >>>>> >>> & g! >> >t; How >>>>>>>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > discussions on >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> this case. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi >>>>>>>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > above >>>>>>>>>> example. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>>>>>>> Kannan >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> & ! >> >gt; >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Robart ji, Simply in one sentence - " Don't jump into conclusions " If elaborated a bit - " Don't jump into conclusions, based on some got deleted or forgotten post somebody posted in some group; which you don't remember where and when and who; and least have any idea about what is the evidence and reference they depended upon. When we `study' a subject the `first step' is trying to view the subject itself through the eyes of the masters who created it; and were the original propagators. While in this stage a disciplined student of any learning tradition (I know that I am of that category, hope you too would be) should not mix-up neither different traditions, nor own ideas into the system – this is a prime rule any kind of sincere study. (Personally he can do such home work as part of his homework and play; but he don't have the right to mislead others or to textual view) Once this stage is over, and the individual is in par with the master's status in ability, he can try new methods, perfect them by constant testing through many years, and once convinced about the new system and its usefulness, start teaching it as his own – avoiding shedding the credit or discredit of it on ancient masters. Putting forward immature theories at learning stage and mixing and matching system before having a proper view of the basics itself is just immaturity and lack of sincerity – which we should avoid " P.S.: Remember that we (you, me and all this group) are just students of astrology; and yet to become masters – so it is our duty to be humble, and know the possible pit falls we may commit, or encounter. Love, Sreenadh , Robert Koch <rk wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh-ji, > > So, in three sentences or less, what in God's name are you trying to > say, sir? > > Kind regards, > Robert > > At 04:33 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > >Dear Sunil ji, > > As I know you have recently been to tamil nadu, you must have seen > >the ultra-modern-nadi readers in viteeswaran coil (the birth place of > >nadi readings). > > I know that you must have noticed the the modern nadi names - > > * Critu Nadi (Nadi by Christ!) > > * Nabi Nadi (Nadi by Md. Nabi!) > > etc as well. > > > > I have a complete text (but of modern origin), which gives > >predictions for Hershel, Neptune, Pluto in chaste Sanskrit (i am > >copying somebody's words); but you might have guessed it is a > >translation effort by a recently lived good scholar from English to > >Sanskrit. I can foresee somebody taking it up to argue that the > >prediction for all these is given by ancient Indian astrological > >texts; or to say that the sages considered these planets as well. > >So don't worry; anything can happen. > > There is only one hope - it is pretty difficult to make up Sanskrit > >slokas - it needs scholarly knowledge. But it is easy to resort to > >and make up some nadi slokas - because still the language is in use; > >and a good training of 4 years make instant nadi verses for reading > >purpose can be of great use in creating 'ancient' Nabi nadi'.. > >Ha..Ha.. You know if it could happen, no wonder you may see 'Vasishta > >Nadi', 'Kapil Nadi' or (who is there in the rishi list to whom a Nadi > >is not ascribed to? catch him and let us put my nadi in his name!) > >and all the other kinds of nadis in 'chaste Tamil' (I don't know > >whether the usage is correct) with all kinds of reference. And the > >poor original Tamil scholar will start crying - and the poor modern > >scholars who can neither understand 'Sanskrit' not 'Tamil' will refer > >to them from groups to groups (why? there should be a reason) - > >spread the word! spead the word! - here I found! and it is useful. > > > > And the life continues... as usual... > > > >A story: Think that somebody wants to find and use a system to > >predict event on earth at all longitudes and latitudes. Let us see > >what would happen - if some of our friends are assigned the task. > > * Krishnal Koul ji will reject the idea itself as absurd because > >there is no Vedic reference for the same, and also because the > >methods described in ancient texts is not perfect, seem to conflict, > >and does not go with the modern knowledge. He will form a committee > >to spread the word - and stat arguing fiercely against this absurd, > >illogical, ignorant, 'so called' astrologers who deviate people from > >the truly scientific path shown by the vedic sages. He will say - > > " You should know that there could be no latitude and longitudes', > >nether the vedas refer them, nor the texts that mention them are > >consistent. You go and see at the locations mentioned in Brihat > >samhita, dear people you could see by your own eyes that there is no > >latitude or longitudes there - it is just plane earth just like I see > >all around! " Don't worry - what he says would be the innermost > >essence - the fearful skeleton of the ancient oldest past; and better > >to keep away from it. There is no life; the skeleton is fearful. > > * Patricia ji will - easily make up a theory with sum Jung > >archetypes, some of the rudiments of here past readings, news paper > >reports, some blavisky theories, filling the gaps well with good > >imagination. And for sure the theory will look perfect from outside. > >(Don't go inside - it is all messy cut past confusion). Well done! > >She won't even take 2 days to makeup the system! Good work - better > >than a fiction writer! But what you get would be a jelly fish with no > >borne inside. Try digesting - it will dissolve into thin air. It is > >beautiful, commercial, showpiece to be put in show case with the > >warning - " Not for use! " . > > > > These are two extremes as you can see - one ripping off everything > >and the other creating things from thin air. Good that they are > >neither archeologists nor scientists - otherwise many peoples life > >had become troublesome; and the Harappa (No harappa existed - Kaul; > >Harppa had created the rocket science - Patricia) a truly lost > >civilization. It is good that they have limited there effort one > >to vedic calendar and the other to cosmic astrology. > > > > It is very difficult to find the true researches whose path is > >somewhere beyond these two extremes. Searching collecting, studying, > >co-relating, finding supporting evidence from all branches of > >knowledge, and poor man - he will fail to produce the > >perfect " comprehensive theory to predict the future of earth " But > >as you could see - he is better dependable and sincere - even though > >he may not have answers to many questions. Neither can he create the > >complete theories in 2 days nor can he reject everything completely. > >He is in the middle, uncertain, still searching, still seeking...I > >think at least some of the true seekers fall into this group. Look at > >Panditji, even after all these years of study, he don't have a > >conclusive answer in many things. He can't be - because he is > >sincere. The same goes true for Chandra Hari, the same is true > >for .... I know most of the members in this group will see them > >selves in one of these categories or the gap in-between. > > But you see life is like that .. The verity makes life > >enjoyable...and they are all our friends.. > > Let some come up with the Nadi reference about Quantum physics, > >relativity, and hydrogen bomb; and let some others argue that the ALL > >nadi texts are made-up and created 10 years back... Some body with > >proper balance will come up and straighten thinks later.. and the > >life continues.. Enjoy! It is the world of astrology! > > P.S: Prafulla ji, and Robert ji and ok - because they are yet to see > >viteeswaran coil, yet to read the original reference from Tamil or > >Sanskrit; they are yet to fall into the great confusion of too many > >references and lack of references - and has good imagination. It is > >good if your could give them a ready solution (or they will make up > >one) And you see Ramdas ji is there to support. > > > >Love, > >Sreenadh > > > > , " sunil nair " > ><astro_tellerkerala@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > dear robertji, > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > > But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > >should we > > > go by some stray references which quoted by some one in some group > >or we > > > shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or sanskrit ,as most of > > > naadis in this laungage and quote the page --line of concerned > >books. > > > > > > my observations. > > > > > > 1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > >negligible > > > as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > > 3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > >results. > > > > > > 4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > > > again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > > And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > > > --there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > >planets > > > and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi ---- > >like > > > this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets can > >influence > > > in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > > Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > >delhi > > > uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by one J C > > > LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not test > >it as > > > they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some for > >software > > > ,so i leav it > > > > > > Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > >rao > > > challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > > > sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > >astrologers > > > > > > i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > >the > > > time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > > But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > > pls produce textual support. > > > > > > regrds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > >to > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > >Bhava > > > Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > > > brilliant > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use > >dashas. I > > > agree > > > > > > with > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > > > used to > > > > > > give > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domain as well. I am after > >ancient > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. > >That > > > is > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > <% > >40yaho\ > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > >well. > > > But > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > > > bhava > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > >make > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > >right > > > to > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > <% > >40yaho\ > > > ogroups.com> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > > > Chart > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > >is > > > the > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > > > originated > > > > > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > > > misleading > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart > >not > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > >following > > > file > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > >>>> > > > > >Sreenadh / > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non- > >existent > > > things > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > > understand > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > >any > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > >is > > > not my > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > >placed > > > in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > > sign). > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju > >in > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is in > > > Capricorn > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > > > concept; > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > >debilitation/own > > > sign > > > > > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > >interpret > > > Sign > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > >file > > > on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > >try > > > to > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > <% > >40yaho\ > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > >>>> <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava > >Chart. Do > > > this > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning > >of > > > bhava > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > > > Planetary > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > >What > > > is > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > >signs in > > > Rasi > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > >placed > > > in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > > sign). > > > > > >>>> How > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In continuation to our earlier > >discussions > > > on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > >debilitation/own > > > sign > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > >above > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > >file > > > on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, You understood the truth of what I said because you have experience with those situations. But usually my words fall on deaf ears, which lack the direct experience with similar situations. There is no point in being against the modern methods; if they independent and unique; and NOT the weak painted theories to look good - but lean on and search all around to find some support from all around; but hopelessly miss to find some authentic reference. We should remember that the whole Prasnamarga was an effort to collect useful and practical astrological theories that were present and in use at that period - i.e. 16th century; which Edakkattu Nambootiri perfected with practice, taking help from his own parampara advice starting from Prasananushtana Padhati (Prasnamarga quotes more than 1000 slokas from Prasnanushtana Padhati). Yes, the book Prasnamarga was good, unique, authentic - but remember 'Edakkattu Nambootiri' was a master, a scholar, authentic in his own right! But is the modern so-called masters we find all around of the same or at least 1000 steps down credibility? If they have – why do they need to lean and depend on the stray, translated, references of Indian astrology to propagate their new pet theories? Can't it stand alone in its own right? Why try corrupting the ancient references of its purity – whether right or wrong? If some modern astrological theories lack the inner strength and is trying to hijack the ancient references, trying to manipulate it just to suit their purpose, then it is not worth listening to. Yes, good and unique modern astrological theories with its own inner strength are surely worth listening to – I agree with you in that regard. It is up to the learner to sort and select the one which he should accept and which not; yes, the true learner should at least have the sense to identify which could lead in right direction and which in wrong direction – which usually he gains from learning and understanding the fundamentals. Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare rama krishna > > dear sreenathji and robertji , > > first to sreenath;- u expressed my concern that naadis can manufactured > in some name ,as i hav lot of experince in my travels to south .There > are lot of tricks of the trade and trying get noticed in crowd techniqs > employed by readers .Even i could smell the techniqs ,now they r > increasing like flies and now every city and corner in world has this > suitcase naadi readers. > > So producing some words in some laungage wont be help ful as jagat guru > adi sankara who was re established theorey of adwaita and u can find > some books like apashudradhikaranm and sankara smriti which totaly > contradicitng his messages and it was like bible of caste based hindu > society once .Where adwaita see man and god as one . > > So the bookish or sanskrit shlokas will not solve the purpose --u > beautifully said with your words. > > Now to sri-robertji sir i fully support your views for modernisation > and bringing new thoughts and ideas to this science ,but my concern is > in one human life --is it enough to propound one theorey and establish > it in jyothisha.Another thing is that who has mastered all the techniqs > which in disclosed and undisclosed and lying with parampara can only do > further reserch and devlpment --i hope u may agree for it .Though i am > not against any reserch on extra saturnian planets . > > U said pluto in lagna or in moon sign of a person will feel the change > --i dont know what it is ,whether positiv or negetiv change > > In that case 1/6 of the total world population ( though i am not good > in mathematics) will sufferring or enjoying and as pluto and this kind > of planets stays more than 100 years (roughly or more --i hav to check > it ) and do u think god is that liberal to some or cruel to others that > gives a transit effect of 100 years and no chance of survival in case of > this is giving negetiv effects in this present birth .Again i am ready > to agree to mundane charts as present state of iraq who ever born there > may not realy enjoy what they were enjoying --in next 100 years > > Also readers can double check with their known persons chart with this > new theorey as if it is working pls let me know . > > Also ur reference to c s patel or any nadi literature --i am yet to find > some one who givs a realy working model or if some one is so confident > let them demonstrate it tru this forum.As i spent lot of money on books > and dakshinas with lot of tis self proclaimed masters and who says > holding the secrets ,off course here i must mention that i never > interacted with c s patel personaly only tru books only .But i hav worst > experince with many who wrote books in the name of naadis. > > > > hope u wont be objected > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > wrote: > > > > Namah Shivaya > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > Robert > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > astrologers > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > brilliant > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. > I agree > > > > > > with > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > used to > > > > > > give > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > ancient > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. > That is > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > well. But > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > bhava > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > make > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > & ! > > >gt;>> > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right to > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > is the > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > originated > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > misleading > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart > not > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > following file > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > >>>> > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > non-existent things > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > > understand > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > any > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > is not my > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > >>>> > > > > & ! > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju > in > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > > in Capricorn > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > concept; > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > interpret Sign > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > try to > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > >>> & g! > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. > Do this > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning > of bhava > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > Planetary > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > What is > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > signs in Rasi > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > > > >>> & g! > > >t; How > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > discussions on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > above > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> & ! > > >gt; > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, Dear prafullaji, Thanks for the supporting mail on the views and concerns expressed by me. Here i think people confuse between graha and the english word planet ,there so many planets ,but the word graha ,our seers used to say that which can influence u or grab u ,catch u (i am not a scholar in sanskrit) so whenevr we find out a planet some on will try to include in astrology forgetting that rishis clearly mentioned that this planets r indicators and givers of your karma (not own their own),they just point it to u like a sign board or traffic lite which is programmed to control the traffic --so y all this hue and cry >Many in the rat race and absence of basic understanding --what rishis thinking when included it --offcourse parasari describes lot of combinations for one event --like say koteeswara yoga ( great money yoga )and no body know the rational behind it (may be with parampara),so what is our option simply parrot it or try to understand the rishi at par with his level of intelligentia or float new theoreys?as may be none of this combination is in bill gates chart . Yes ,i hav one concern for example 1000 years back where no hindu was allowed to travel to a foreign country and now u can see every alternate house hold is got foreign connection by way of job or migration .B4 u need strong yogas to travel and now may be feeble yogas helping or may be time change reflecting it ,this are the gaps to be fillled --in predictiv astrology . So again how this change of time we can read tru individual kundalies or did the energy field of a place one born is also should be considered .for ex- may be a afgani child could not attent schools ( not their madrassa) for may be last few years or a iraqi kid sufferring mal nutrician irrespectiv of wealth the country has or iran is rationing petrol. Or i dont know proper mastering of samhitas of astrology (which deals with mundane and national effects ) will solve this problem. So my request to all is b4 jumping and adopting new techniqs we shud able to decipher that none of the already existing theorey s r support the purticular event .Here again the proplem is poor astrologer or enthusiast has to fight this battle lonely with his own resourses and no public or governmental support.And also no body is co operating with him with atleast honest sharing of events. some thoughts of mine ,sorry regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nair ji> > > > > Now to sri-robertji sir i fully support your views for modernisation> > and bringing new thoughts and ideas to this science ,but my concern is> > in one human life --is it enough to propound one theorey and establish> > it in jyothisha.Another thing is that who has mastered all the techniqs> > which in disclosed and undisclosed and lying with parampara can only do> > further reserch and devlpment --i hope u may agree for it .Though i am> > not against any reserch on extra saturnian planets .> > > [Prafulla] Yes time becomes the constraint..and more so, in the absence of complete knowledge (hidden in parampara).> > > > regards / Prafulla Gang> http://www.prafulla.net> > "Men who never get carried away should be."> ************************************************> > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> >> > >> Namah Shivaya> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> > >> Dear Mr. Nair,> >> > >> Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> >> than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> >> have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> >> Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> >> the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> >> is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> >> has changed due to undeniable experience of their> >> affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> >> to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> >> rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> >> dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> >> new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> >> there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> >> or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> >> > >> Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> >> enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> >> methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> >> reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> >> Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as> >> an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> >> use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> >> until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> >> that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> >> will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> >> such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> >> in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> >> progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as> >> western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our> >> awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> >> > >> However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> >> astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> >> the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> >> > >> Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> >> or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> >> error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> >> of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> >> practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> >> technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> >> practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> >> then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> >> serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a> >> vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> >> continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> >> alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> >> person with that attitude toward his practice.> >> > >> With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> >> > >> Robert> >> > >> At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> >> > >> >Hare rama krishna,> >>> > >> >dear robertji,> >>> > >>> Thanks for your post.> >>> > >> >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> >> >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> >> >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> >> >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> >> >--line of concerned books.> >>> > >> >my observations.> >>> > >> >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> >> >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> >>> > >>> 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> >>> seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> >>> > >> >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> >>> > >> >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified> >> >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> >>> > >> >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes> >> >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> >> >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> >> >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets> >> >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> >>> > >> >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> >> >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> >> >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> >> >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some> >> >for software ,so i leav it> >>> > >> >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> >> >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra> >> >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > astrologers> >>> > >> >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> >> >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> >>> > >> >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> >>> > >> >pls produce textual support.> >>> > >> >regrds sunil nair> >>> > >> >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> >>>> > >>>> Namaste Prafulla,> >>>> > >>>> At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> >>>> >Dear Sir> >>>>> > >>>> >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> >>>> >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> >>>> >thread in another forum.> >>>> > >>>> Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> >>>> taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> >>>> > >>>> Best regards,> >>>> Robert Koch> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >regards / Prafulla Gang> >>>> >http://www.prafulla.net> >>>>> > >>>> >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> > to> >>>> >be taken seriously."> >>>> >************************************************> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> navagraha@> >>>>>> ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> >>>>>> > >>>>>> Re: Re: Importance of> > Bhava Chart> >>>>>> > >>>>>> Namaste Sreenadh,> >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > brilliant> >>>>>> predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas.> > I agree> >>>>>> with> >>>>>> you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> >>>>>> > >>>>>> I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be> > used to> >>>>>> give> >>>>>> predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> >>>>>> > >>>>>> ...> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,> >>>>>>> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > ancient> >>>>>>> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals.> > That is> >>>>>>> the only thing I can say.> >>>>>>> Love,> >>>>>>> Sreenadh> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- In> >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> >>>>>>> Prafulla Gang> >>>>>>> jyotish@ wrote:> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> > well. But> >>>>>>> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use> > bhava> >>>>>>> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> > make> >>>>>>> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang> >>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net> >>>>> & !> >> >gt;>>> >>>>>>>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> > right to> >>>>>>> be taken seriously."> >>>>>>>> ************************************************> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> sreesog@> >>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> >>>>>>>>> To:> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>> >>>>>>>>> Re: Importance of Bhava> > Chart> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kannan ji,> >>>>>>>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> > is the> >>>>>>>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> > originated> >>>> ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> > misleading> >>>>>>>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart> > not> >>>>>>>>> supported by ancient sages.> >>>>>>>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > following file> >>>>>>>>> present in the file section of the group.> >>>>>>>>> URL:> >>>>>>>>> > >>> > > Sreenadh/> >>>>>>>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> >>>>>>>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > non-existent things> >>>>>>>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to> >>> understand> >>>>>>>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> > any> >>>>>>>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> > is not my> >>>>>>>>> domain]> >>>>>>>>> > >>>> & !> >> >gt; >>>> ==>> >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> >>>>>>>>> <==> >>>>>>>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju> > in> >>>>>>>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> >>> in Capricorn> >>>>>>>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient> > concept;> >>>>>>>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ==>> >>>>>>>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> >>>> ! > >>>>> in this case.> >>>>>>>>> <==> >>>>>>>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > interpret Sign> >>>>>>>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ==>> >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> > file on> >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification.> >>>>>>>>> <==> >>>>>>>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> > try to> >>>>>>>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > >>>>>>>>> Love,> >>>>>>>>> Sreenadh> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- In> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> >>>>>>> "kankan_73"> >>>>> >>> & g!> >> >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart.> > Do this> >>>>>>>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning> > of bhava> >>>>>>>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> > Planetary> >>>>>>>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> > What is> >>>>>>>>> the> >>>>>>>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > signs in Rasi> >>>>>>>>>> and Bhava.> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> >>>>> >>> & g!> >> >t; How> >>>>>>>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > discussions on> >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> >>>>>>>>> in> >>>>>>>>>> this case.> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> >>>>>>>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> > above> >>>>>>>>>> example.> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> > file on> >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification.> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards,> >>>>>>>>>> Kannan> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>> & !> >> >gt;> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, Thanks for the good post. Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > Dear prafullaji, > > Thanks for the supporting mail on the views and concerns > expressed by me. > > Here i think people confuse between graha and the english word planet > ,there so many planets ,but the word graha ,our seers used to say that > which can influence u or grab u ,catch u (i am not a scholar in > sanskrit) > > so whenevr we find out a planet some on will try to include in > astrology forgetting that rishis clearly mentioned that this planets r > indicators and givers of your karma (not own their own),they just point > it to u like a sign board or traffic lite which is programmed to control > the traffic --so y all this hue and cry >Many in the rat race and > absence of basic understanding --what rishis thinking when included it > --offcourse parasari describes lot of combinations for one event -- like > say koteeswara yoga ( great money yoga )and no body know the rational > behind it (may be with parampara),so what is our option simply parrot it > or try to understand the rishi at par with his level of intelligentia > or float new theoreys?as may be none of this combination is in bill > gates chart . > > Yes ,i hav one concern > > for example 1000 years back where no hindu was allowed to travel to a > foreign country and now u can see every alternate house hold is got > foreign connection by way of job or migration .B4 u need strong yogas to > travel and now may be feeble yogas helping or may be time change > reflecting it ,this are the gaps to be fillled --in predictiv astrology > . > > So again how this change of time we can read tru individual kundalies or > did the energy field of a place one born is also should be considered > .for ex- may be a afgani child could not attent schools ( not their > madrassa) for may be last few years or a iraqi kid sufferring mal > nutrician irrespectiv of wealth the country has or iran is rationing > petrol. > > Or i dont know proper mastering of samhitas of astrology (which deals > with mundane and national effects ) will solve this problem. > > So my request to all is b4 jumping and adopting new techniqs we shud > able to decipher that none of the already existing theorey s r support > the purticular event .Here again the proplem is poor astrologer or > enthusiast has to fight this battle lonely with his own resourses and no > public or governmental support.And also no body is co operating with him > with atleast honest sharing of events. > > > > some thoughts of mine ,sorry > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > , Prafulla Gang > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil Nair ji > > > > > > > > Now to sri-robertji sir i fully support your views for modernisation > > > and bringing new thoughts and ideas to this science ,but my concern > is > > > in one human life --is it enough to propound one theorey and > establish > > > it in jyothisha.Another thing is that who has mastered all the > techniqs > > > which in disclosed and undisclosed and lying with parampara can only > do > > > further reserch and devlpment --i hope u may agree for it .Though i > am > > > not against any reserch on extra saturnian planets . > > > > > [Prafulla] Yes time becomes the constraint..and more so, in the > absence of complete knowledge (hidden in parampara). > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Namah Shivaya > > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >> > > >> Dear Mr. Nair, > > >> > > >> Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > >> than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > >> have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > >> Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > > >> the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > > >> is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these > planets > > >> has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > >> affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table > as > > >> to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > > >> rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > > >> dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > >> new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and > then > > >> there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or > not > > >> or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > >> > > >> Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > >> enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > >> methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling > of > > >> reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune > and > > >> Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect > (as > > >> an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on > the > > >> use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > >> until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > > >> that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, > you > > >> will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > >> such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing > it > > >> in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > >> progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well > as > > >> western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to > our > > >> awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > >> > > >> However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > >> astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > >> the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > >> > > >> Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > > >> or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > >> error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > > >> of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > >> practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > >> technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > >> practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > > >> then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it > only > > >> serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming > a > > >> vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > > >> continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > > >> alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > >> person with that attitude toward his practice. > > >> > > >> With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > >> > > >> Robert > > >> > > >> At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > >> > > >> >Hare rama krishna, > > >>> > > >> >dear robertji, > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for your post. > > >>> > > >> >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > >> >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > >> >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > >> >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > >> >--line of concerned books. > > >>> > > >> >my observations. > > >>> > > >> >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > >> >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > >>> > > >>> 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > >>> seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > >>> > > >> >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > results. > > >>> > > >> >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not > identified > > >> >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > >>> > > >> >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira > describes > > >> >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > >> >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha > kodi > > >> >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this > planets > > >> >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > >>> > > >> >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > >> >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > > >> >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could > not > > >> >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or > some > > >> >for software ,so i leav it > > >>> > > >> >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > >> >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses > extra > > >> >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > > > astrologers > > >>> > > >> >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > >> >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > >>> > > >> >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > >>> > > >> >pls produce textual support. > > >>> > > >> >regrds sunil nair > > >>> > > >> >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > , Robert Koch rk@ > > > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Namaste Prafulla, > > >>>> > > >>>> At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > >>>> >Dear Sir > > >>>>> > > >>>> >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > >>>> >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > >>>> >thread in another forum. > > >>>> > > >>>> Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > >>>> taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > >>>> > > >>>> Best regards, > > >>>> Robert Koch > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >regards / Prafulla Gang > > >>>> >http://www.prafulla.net > > >>>>> > > >>>> > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > > > to > > >>>> >be taken seriously. " > > >>>> >************************************************ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> navagraha@ > > >>>>>> ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Re: Re: Importance of > > > Bhava Chart > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Namaste Sreenadh, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > > > brilliant > > >>>>>> predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. > > > I agree > > >>>>>> with > > >>>>>> you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > > > used to > > >>>>>> give > > >>>>>> predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, > > >>>>>>> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > > > ancient > > >>>>>>> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. > > > That is > > >>>>>>> the only thing I can say. > > >>>>>>> Love, > > >>>>>>> Sreenadh > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> --- In > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com>, > > >>>>>>> Prafulla Gang > > >>>>>>> jyotish@ wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > > > well. But > > >>>>>>> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > > > bhava > > >>>>>>> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > > > make > > >>>>>>> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > >>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net > > >>>>> & ! > > >> >gt;>> > > >>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > > > right to > > >>>>>>> be taken seriously. " > > >>>>>>>> ************************************************ > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> sreesog@ > > >>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > >>>>>>>>> To: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > > > Chart > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > >>>>>>>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > > > is the > > >>>>>>>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > > > originated > > >>>> ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > > > misleading > > >>>>>>>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart > > > not > > >>>>>>>>> supported by ancient sages. > > >>>>>>>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > > > following file > > >>>>>>>>> present in the file section of the group. > > >>>>>>>>> URL: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > > > Sreenadh/ > > >>>>>>>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > >>>>>>>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > > > non-existent things > > >>>>>>>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > >>> understand > > >>>>>>>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > > > any > > >>>>>>>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > > > is not my > > >>>>>>>>> domain] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>> & ! > > >> >gt; >>>> ==> > > >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > > placed in > > >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > > sign). > > >>>>>>>>> <== > > >>>>>>>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju > > > in > > >>>>>>>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > >>> in Capricorn > > >>>>>>>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > > > concept; > > >>>>>>>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> ==> > > >>>>>>>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > > placed in > > >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > debilitation/own sign > > >>>> ! > >>>>> in this case. > > >>>>>>>>> <== > > >>>>>>>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > > > interpret Sign > > >>>>>>>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> ==> > > >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > > > file on > > >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. > > >>>>>>>>> <== > > >>>>>>>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > > > try to > > >>>>>>>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > >>>>>>>>> Love, > > >>>>>>>>> Sreenadh > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --- In > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com>, > > >>>>>>> " kankan_73 " > > >>>>> >>> & g! > > >> >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. > > > Do this > > >>>>>>>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning > > > of bhava > > >>>>>>>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > > > Planetary > > >>>>>>>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > > > What is > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > > > signs in Rasi > > >>>>>>>>>> and Bhava. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > > placed in > > >>>>>>>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > > sign). > > >>>>> >>> & g! > > >> >t; How > > >>>>>>>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > > > discussions on > > >>>>>>>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > > placed in > > >>>>>>>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > debilitation/own sign > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>>> this case. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > >>>>>>>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > > > above > > >>>>>>>>>> example. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > > > file on > > >>>>>>>>>> birth time rectification. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards, > > >>>>>>>>>> Kannan > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> >>> & ! > > >> >gt; > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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