Kaul ji, Can you tell me something about Sukra Neeti ?

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

Thanks for a really informative mail. It was great!

 

I have slight objection about your retort, rejection, and hatred

against astrology and the related name calling used - if the same was

avoided the article would have been more beautiful.

 

==>

> The only tragic part of all these festivals -- whether solar or

> lunar --and muhurtas is that instead of the Vedic Madhu, Madhava

> etc. solar ingresses, we are going by Lahiri Sankrantis like

> (Lahiri) Makar Sankranti, (Lahiri) Kumbha sanranti and so son.

> These have no sanction either astronomically or as per our

> dharmashastras! The only sanction those snakrantis have is from

> " Vedic jyotishis " like overseas " Vamadevas " and local " Abhinav

> Parasharas " and " Varahamihiras " . In other words, we are going by

> what our Vedic jyotishis advise us even about our fairs, festivals

> and muhurtas instead of as to what our dahrmashastras say!

<==

The above part does not sound good - ok, still it is your opinion.

Some side thought makes request some particular information.

 

Kaul ji, what is your opinion about the text 'Sukra Neeti'? What is

the period you attribute to it? The question is important because of

some unique info this text contains.

As per a sloka in Mahabharata Santiparva, the first Neeti sastra

text is 'Vaisalaksha Neeti sastra' written by Siva containing 1000

sloka. After that Indra wrote 'Bahu Dantaka Neeti sastra' containing

1000 sloka. Then sage Brihaspati wrote 'Brahaspatya Neeti sastra'

containing 1000 sloka and Sukracharya wrote 'Sukra Neeti' containing

1200 sloka. This much info we get from Mahabharata. The cute thing is

that 'Sukra Neeti' is still available, and contains 1200 slokas

itself!

 

What is your opinion about this text? Is it one written after the

Greek invasion or Prior to that? I am waiting for your reply.

 

To those who don't have any info regarding this book, you can get it

from the following publisher.

 

Manoj Pocket Books,

761, Main Road, Khuradi, Delhi -110084

 

Note: I have some thing to show about the existance of astrology in

vedic period based on 'Sukra Neeti' and that is why the question.

 

 

P.S.:

 

Something about my standpoint and search

-----------------

About my stand point and search: I value Siva, Sakti, Adharva Veda,

Sukracharya, Ravana, unique Tantric heritage of Kashmir-Orissa-

Kerala, Sanaka, Sant Kumara, Budha, Jain, Patanjali (Naga!), Kapila,

Panini, Krishna (Yadava!), Vyasa (born to Matsya gandhi: Auther of

Mahabharata epic) etc. If the tradition is termed 'Asura' (Non-

brahmanic) tradition. Then it to it is ok and then I would love to be

an 'Asura'.

It is the Brahmins who migrated from Sindhu-Saraswati to Ganges,

that contaminated the tradition and interpolated and corrupted every

text. It is only some scholars of Kashmir (remember Yogavasishta),

and Orissa (remember Kalinga), Gujerat (Remember their original

serpent worshipers who were part of the original sidhu-saraswati

tradition and migrated southwards), Kerala (It was the place where

the Saiva tantrics took resort; in an effort to protect their

knowledge) who tried hard to protect the original stream of

knowledge.

Look at today's India - what do you find? Can you find any temples

for Indra, Varuna, Mitra etc? Even temples for Rama, Lakshmi etc too

is very few in number. What you find most? Siva temples,

Kalika/Chandhika temples(don't mislead by puranic stories of Kali-

daughter of Siva; but Kalika is the wife of Siva; Sakti/Parvati

itself), Snake worship (Kundalini! Yogaic/Tantric Tradition), and at

last now Hanuman worship! Is it that Vedic culture prevailed in

india, or is it that the Vedic culture got submerged in the original

Tantric culture of India? The term Non-Vedic is wrong. It should be

Non-Brahmanic; because most of the Available Vedic literature is that

which got preserved by those who migrated to ganges (Later day

Brahmins!: Suras!); and Adharva Veda, Krishna Yejurveda all got

neglected by them and much of it lost - the original tradition of

Sindhu-Saraswati (Non-Brahmanic !: Asuras!). Why the emphasis on

archeology? It is because archeological evidences are better in

revealing the true story than the already corrupted/interpolated

texts that are passed to generations by these so ganges brahmins and

stories made by later day aryan invasion theorists.

By the way one more simple question - which is the most read

spiritual text in India? Bhagavt gita? ha ha... you are wrong - it

is 'Hanuman Chaleesa'! Is it not curious? Even current day

culture and archeological/cultural remaining/rudiments can show as a

better picture of the past than that imagined based on the half

corrupted, half preserved so called vedic/puranic literature. I am in

no way against Vedas; but instead had a high regard for them; but

more after my lost tradition; which worshiped Siva-Sakti-Saraswati-

Naga. Is it not evident that it is the Tantric culture which too is

Vedic and lived in Sindhu-Saraswati region?

Dear Kaul ji, just making my stand point and search direction clear

for your information; because that may help you in assessing my

statements if they get biased by this stand point.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " jyotirved "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

>

> Shri Raviji,

> Namaskar!

> I know I am late in responding to your post of May 28. My

apologies.

>

> You have said:

> < meanwhile regarding preference of Solar over Lunar or vise versa -

what

> are the implications?>

>

> Raviji, honestly, the Vedic/Hindu Calendar is really unique and the

most

> scientific! Astronomically, the phenomena that we attribute to the

sun are

> actually attributable to the earth since the former is stationary

and it is

> the latter that is moving. Moon is a satellite of the earth, as

everybody

> knows.

>

> The solar/earth movement generates all the phenomena. Whether it is

> uttarayana or dakshinayana or Vasanta or Varsha ritu, all these

phenomena

> depend on the movement of the sun/earth. Moon has absolutely no

role to

> play in those phenomena.

> But what is unique about the Vedic/Hindu calendar is the importance

of about

> ninety percent of the festivals etc. almost exclusively because of

the moon.

> Tithi like Purnima, Amavasya or ashtami etc. etc. are an inseparable

> phenomena from any karmakanda of the Vedas, puranas or other

shastras. Apart

> from solar ingress, known as sankrantis, which were and are known

as Madhu,

> Madhava etc and/or dakshinayana/uttarayana etc, the solar ingress

to the

> exclusion of the lunar involvement played no role in the Vedic or

Pauranic

> times, though all these (solar) ingress timings were extolled in

all the

> shastras, especially those of the Ayanas and Sampats.

> Tithis, however, played and still play a dominant role after those

solar

> phenomena. For example, when we say that Vasanti Navratras have

started,

> what we mean to say is that since the sun has had the ingress into

the month

> of Madhu (the first month of Vasanta ritu), and since now it is the

first

> New Moon after that, it is vasanta navratra. As such, though the

season of

> Vasanta i.e. Spring started with the ingress of the sun into the

month of

> Madhu, and though it was/is celebrated in its own way (like thal-

bharun in

> Kashmir!), yet the real vasanti puja will start only after the moon

conjoins

> the sun in that Madhumasa!

>

> Similarly, Sharadiya navratras start only with the first New Moon

after the

> Sharat Ritu has started with the ingress of the sun into the month

of Vedic

> Isha. Durgapuja, especially Durga Saptami/Ashtami and

Dashahra/Vijaya

> Dashmi etc. festivals are tied with luni-solar phenomena i.e. tithis

> following the start of Sharadiya Navratras.

>

> In India, we never celebrate birthdays or punya tithis either as

per solar

> days, though of late this phenomenon has become a rage! For

example, for

> us, Bhadra Krishna Ashtami (Shrvana Krishna in South India etc.) is

the

> Janmashtami of Bhagwan Krishna! Similarly, Chaitra Shukla Navmi

i.e. the

> last tithi of vasanti navratras known as Ramanavmi is the janma

tithi of

> Bhagwan Rama! Same is the case with the jayantis of all the other

avatars

> etc. etc.

>

> In our day to day life also, we celebrate our birthdays etc. on

lunar

> tithis. For example, instead of July 2, my date of birth, in

Kashmir, I

> used to celebrate my birthday on Ashada Krsihna Dwadashi since that

was the

> lunar tithi when I was born!

>

> Same is the case with deciding the punya-tithis (shradhas) of our

departed

> souls. We do not take into account, for that purpose, the solar or

Gregorian

> date but the lunar tithi that was prevailing at the time of demise

of the

> person concerned. For example, we celebrate Bishma Ashtami because

Bhishma

> Pitamaha is supposed to have shed off his mortal coil on Shukla

Paksha

> Ashtami in the month of Magha i.e. the lunar month following

Uttarayana.

> Similarly, whenever we have to decide a muhurta about anything,

whether

> marriage or tonsure or upanayana etc., the first consideration is

that it

> must be a suitable/auspicious tithi of a suitable month.

>

> Thus we can say that all the Hindu samskaras (rites and rituals),

right from

> birth to death, revolve around lunar tithis. But the lunar tithis

have no

> existence or importance without the solar phenomena! Even

astronomically, a

> tithi is a distance of multiples of twelve degrees the moon has

gained over

> the sun. e.g., when the moon is conjunct i.e. when it is away by 0

or 360

> degrees from the sun, we say it is Amavasya (New Moon) and shukla

pratipat

> starts immediately after that. When the moon gains a distance of

twelve

> degrees over the sun, that shukla pratipat is over and so on till

it is at

> an exact distance of 180 degrees from the sun. That is the exact

time of

> Purnima (Full Moon), after which Krishna paksha starts, Krishna

pratipat

> ranging from 180 degrees to 192 degrees of the moon gaining over

the sun.

> The names of lunar months also are dependent on the solar ingress.

If the

> sun has crossed Uttarayana it will be Magha shukla paksha on the

first New

> Moon day after that and so on as per the Vedanga Jyotisha. Lunar

months

> i.e. synodic months always follow solar months but it is never the

other way

> round! Thus if there are two New Moons in between two solar

ingresses, we

> have an adhika masa and if there is no new moon between two solar

ingresses,

> there is a kshyaya-masa. Te latter phenomenon is not likely to

happen over

> the next couple of centuries, at least. This adhika-masa is also a

unique

> phenomenon referred to in the Rigveda as well.

>

> Nakshatra is an independent phenomenon as far as the lunar sojourn

is

> concerned. As is clear from the MBh etc., in ancient times, the

lunar

> nakshatra was taken into account only when the moon was in that

particular

> nakshatra. Nakshatra names were determined as per prominent stars,

known as

> mile posts, of those names. E.g., when it was said

that " Krittikiasu agnim

> adadeeta " i.e. one should get consecrated in krittikas, what it

meant was

> that it should be a day when the Moon was in that particular

nakshatra --

> conjunct the starry group of krittikas.

>

> These days there are three other phenomena of a panchanga, which

means

> literally, a book of five limbs. These are, apart from tithi and

nakshatra,

> yoga, karna and var. Of these remaining three limbs, Karna is half

of a

> tithi whereas yoga is said to be multiple of 13 degrees 20 minutes

of the

> sum of the moon and the sun at a particular point of time. Var is

a week

> day, which is definitely a phenomenon imported into India from

overseas.

>

> During the Vedic period, Madhu, Chaitra etc. months, Amavasya etc.

tithis

> and krittika etc. Nakshatras only were considered for muhurtas

etc. We find

> the mention of 27 yogas for the first time in the Surya Sidhanta,

though

> that sidhanta also does not say anything about week days. However,

there

> are also two other types of yogas detailed in the SS viz. the

Vaidhriti and

> the Vyatipata, which are more or less dependent on the declinations

of the

> sun and the moon.

>

> The only tragic part of all these festivals -- whether solar or

lunar --and

> muhurtas is that instead of the Vedic Madhu, Madhava etc. solar

ingresses,

> we are going by Lahiri Sankrantis like (Lahiri) Makar Sankranti,

(Lahiri)

> Kumbha sanranti and so son. These have no sanction either

astronomically or

> as per our dharmashastras! The only sanction those snakrantis have

is from

> " Vedic jyotishis " like overseas " Vamadevas " and local " Abhinav

Parasharas "

> and " Varahamihiras " . In other words, we are going by what our Vedic

> jyotishis advise us even about our fairs, festivals and muhurtas

instead of

> as to what our dahrmashastras say!

> Since lunar months follow solar ingresses, all the lunar festivals

also get

> skewed, so much so that we celebrate Pitramavasya on the day of

actual

> Dipavali and shradhas during a period that may actually be

auspicious for

> marriages etc. etc.

>

> We should not take such insults by " Vedic jyotishis " to our

dharmashastras

> in s supine condition!

> With regards,

> AKK

>

> PS I really appreciate your humility when you say

> < Sorry for being so rudimentary in such questions.>

> AKK

>

> hinducivilization , " RAVI " <ravi7640@>

> wrote:

>

> Thank you Avatarji. Let me digest this. In the meanwhile regarding

> preference of Solar over Lunar or vise versa - what are the

> implications? Do you recommend our government should prefer one of

them or

> both while formulating a national calendar? Sorry for being so

rudimentary

> in such questions.

> Ravi

> -

> " jyotirved " <jyotirved@>

> <hinducivilization >

> Cc: <HinduCalendar >

> Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:09 PM

> RE: [hc] RE: [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Re: The Veda, India, and

> the

> Sacred Map Symbol - Capricorn

>

>

> >

> > Shri Raviji,

> > Namaskar!

> > < Could you please describe how the modern calendar should be?>

> >

>