Guest guest Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Dear all, It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha stotram that there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of kaliyuga that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring for them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or simply do not know how to raise a child. However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in others. For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act as Yoga karaka b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 Dear Shree Patnaik, Bright idea indeed to test the fundamentals. So let's clear the deck for a good launch: ONE Let's take your proposition b). Your say to Taurus Sat is YK. To Capricorn lagna, the 5th lord Venus also acts as yogakaraka. It is a give and take. Where is compensation arising? Many such whys and wherefores remain unresolved. One example is the why of kendradhipati dosha. Nobody has found a convincing explanation. I am with you on such forays though. TWO You say Cancer is a selfish sign ("most selfish cancerians"). Then comes "cancerians gives to children"; "capricorn takes from their children" Of the two, which is a selfish sign? RK Dash kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: Dear all, It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha stotram that there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of kaliyuga that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring for them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or simply do not know how to raise a child. However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in others. For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act as Yoga karaka b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 Dear Kishore, There is nothing personal in this as neither I nor any of my near and dear ones have those two lagnas. Even if that were the case, I would never take principles going in favour or against one's understanding of a person, personally in Jyotish discussions. What I was trying to point out was that there appeared to be no basis in astrological texts for the statement that Cancer ascendant people give to children and neither is there anything in the texts to show that Capricorn people take from children. The examples of Sonia or Deve Gowda only tell what is general and that is every politician of the Indian origin wants her/his dynasty to be established through bringing his/her progeny into politics. There was no sacrifice involved in both cases, only political compulsions masquerading as sacrifice. In the first case no sacrifice had entered the mind when claiming to form a government with her as the leader during the earlier failed attempt at forming the Government, courtesy Mulayamsingh, and in later case it was a face saving exercise, in view of the total revolt by party members that could have led to the worthy's imminent expulsion from his party. I do not think all dictum are generalizations and even when they appear to be so, they have some basis in established principles of astrology. But as I said sometime back I am a bit orthodox in matters astrological, and those more knowledgeable than me might hold a different view. Chandrashekhar. kishore patnaik wrote: > > dear chandra sekhar, > > please show me one dictum which is not a generalization! We are only > discussing the general nature of the lagna and obviously, in some > cases this > will find its full bloom and in some cases, it may even show reverse > effects. You should not and can not predict anything unless you see the > chart in its entirity. > > This is the refrain-that you shud read in its entirity- I always have > taken > and repeated tirelessly in my posts. > > We can discuss only the generalizations in academic circles which can get > ruthlessly modified when applied to individual charts. > > please do not take things so personal. > > regards, > > Kishore patnaik > > On 05 Apr 2007 11:43:38 -0700, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> > wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore, > > > > I hope you do not mind, but this is generalization at its extreme. If I > > remember right, and I could be wrong as age does not spare anyone, > > Indira Gandhi also had cancer lagna and there were all sorts of rumors > > about Sanjay Gandhi's accident. Is there any large scale data to support > > this theory, like charts of mothers who have abandoned their children > > and who reared even their illegitimate children having Capricorn and > > Cancer lagnas respectively? Otherwise this must remain a speculation at > > its best. > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others more knowledgeable than > > me might have a different opinion. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha > stotram that > > > there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of > kaliyuga > > > that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring > > for > > > them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or > > > simply do > > > not know how to raise a child. > > > > > > However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in > > > others. > > > > > > For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for > > > the sake > > > of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern > > > politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. > > > > > > On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his > > own > > > children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. > > > > > > It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- > > > > > > a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie > > > mars act > > > as Yoga karaka > > > b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna > > lord > > > saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna > > > > > > I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Dear chandra sekhar, 1. There is nothing personal in this as neither I nor any of my near and dear ones have those two lagnas. Even if that were the case, I would never take principles going in favour or against one's understanding of a person, personally in Jyotish discussions. My comments: Your response was very untypically sharp and with the preamble not to mind your words, your sharpness was indeed deliberate. Hence, it was my perception that it was personal. It does not matter whether it is personal or not, so long as I learn a new point (or, if god is great, a good lot of them) from your posts. In fact, it would have been better if it were personal, since you would have quoted examples you knew intimately. . What I was trying to point out was that there appeared to be no basis in astrological texts for the statement that Cancer ascendant people give to children and neither is there anything in the texts to show that Capricorn people take from children. My comments: How can you say that? Kindly post your astrological basis to discuss the selfishness towards children of various signs. So be it, if it is established that capricorn people are the most tear jerking sacrificing parents in the world. I have nothing personal in it, too The examples of Sonia or Deve Gowda only tell what is general and that is every politician of the Indian origin wants her/his dynasty to be established through bringing his/her progeny into politics. There was no sacrifice involved in both cases, only political compulsions masquerading as sacrifice. In the first case no sacrifice had entered the mind when claiming to form a government with her as the leader during the earlier failed attempt at forming the Government, courtesy Mulayamsingh, and in later case it was a face saving exercise, in view of the total revolt by party members that could have led to the worthy's imminent expulsion from his party. My comments: I am not talking of sonia gandhi or deve gowda are not selfish. In spite of their selfish thinking, when it comes to the children, they have sacrificed. Sonia gandhi shunned politics till her children were out of danger and it is inner story that deve gowda had to sacrifice a lot for his son to become chief minister. I do not think all dictum are generalizations and even when they appear to be so, they have some basis in established principles of astrology. But as I said sometime back I am a bit orthodox in matters astrological, and those more knowledgeable than me might hold a different view. My comments: I am orthodox too and I condemn anyone who do not follow dictums or try to make up their own rules. Not that I am against new dictums but I am not sure that the modern man can makeup the right dictums. I once again request you to kindly share your knowledge on the subject, debating the points either for or against, as your knowledge and experiences be, for the benefit of the group in general and for my benefit in particular. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 dear dash, ONE Let's take your proposition b). Your say to Taurus Sat is YK. To Capricorn lagna, the 5th lord Venus also acts as yogakaraka. It is a give and take. Where is compensation arising? What I was discussing is in comparision. Please read again and if I were not clear, I would discuss the same again. TWO You say Cancer is a selfish sign ( " most selfish cancerians " ). Then comes " cancerians gives to children " ; " capricorn takes from their children " Of the two, which is a selfish sign? I did not say cancerian is a selfish sign. If cancerians are otherwise selfish, they would sacrifice when it comes to the children. Hope I am clear. Kishore patanik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Kishore, This is what you wrote. For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act as Yoga karaka b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna NOW Am I to understand that the string of words "even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice..." means this? That cancerians are neither selfish nor unselfish; and even if they are selfish because of their having nothing to do with the (ascending) sign that some cancerians can be most selfish, notwithstanding other planetary placement in the chart. Or because of other planetary placement? Pls throw more light Do you also mean Sonia Gandhi is a Cancer lagna and Deve Gowda is a Capri lagna...? You should have supplied those four-five words. NEXT "Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna" In light of this I can say: Venus has to act as YK to Capricorn langa and Aqu lagna. But what explains Venus's debt? kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: dear dash, ONE Let's take your proposition b). Your say to Taurus Sat is YK. To Capricorn lagna, the 5th lord Venus also acts as yogakaraka. It is a give and take. Where is compensation arising? What I was discussing is in comparision. Please read again and if I were not clear, I would discuss the same again. TWO You say Cancer is a selfish sign ("most selfish cancerians"). Then comes "cancerians gives to children"; "capricorn takes from their children" Of the two, which is a selfish sign? I did not say cancerian is a selfish sign. If cancerians are otherwise selfish, they would sacrifice when it comes to the children. Hope I am clear. Kishore patanik Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dear Kishore ji, Take any period of time - * There will be good children and bad children (stress is on their habits) * There will be good mothers and bad mothers (stress is on their attitude towards their own children) * There will be good fathers and bad fathers (stress is on their attitude towards their own children) No body can denay this truth. But ofcourse one should take care in clarifying what he means by 'good' or 'bad' You want to co-relating it with astrology?! Cancer: The chidren of cancer is known to eat its mother i heard. If the same is applied to Cancer sign, then we can't expect children of cancer doing good to their mother. Note that the 5th lord from cancer sign, Ma (lord of Sc) is debilitated in Cancer. The same goes for lord of cancer (Mo) towards her children (5th sign - Sc) as well. Note that Mo is debilitated in Sc. The relation is more or less based on own selfishness for both the mother and children in case of Cn. Capricon: Capricon is water snake?!! As per ancient indian astrology, it is half dear, half crocodile i heard. Some say that it is a big fish - something like a big Shark. The 5th lord of Cp is Ve and it does not have any direct relationship with Cp. But being the 5th and 10th lord Ve becomes the Yogakaraka for Cp, and theirfore for Cp her children should be beneficial to her. By the same logic Cp should be benificial to her children as well - because Sa lord of Cp is Yogakaraka for Ta, the 5th house from Cp. So more or less the relation between Cp and her children is that of mutual help rather than one coming out of selfishness. So your conclusion seems logical - even though i don't have any ready refference examples. But of course these are just generalations based on the nature of signs - which almost always gets over ridden by house,planets and aspects. Love, Sreenadh , " kishore patnaik " <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear all, > > It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha stotram that > there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of kaliyuga > that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring for > them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or simply do > not know how to raise a child. > > However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in > others. > > For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake > of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern > politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. > > On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own > children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. > > It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- > > a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act > as Yoga karaka > b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord > saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna > > I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. > > regards, > > Kishore patnaik > > 98492 70729 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dear RK ji, " What ever you say- don't speak of russia and china! " - says a marxist (for sure then his blood will become hot!). This is a joke in my native place. In the same way, what ever you may say, " but don't speak of Kendradhipati dosha, Kuja dosha, Kala sarpa daha!! " - I would say. ) Which is the saint who spoke about Kendradhipati dosha?!! - I could see none! The same goes for all those other famous doshas as well. All such Doshas are wasting the time of astrolgers and others more than anything else now a days. Love, Sreenadh , rk dash <arkaydash wrote: > > Dear Shree Patnaik, > Bright idea indeed to test the fundamentals. So let's clear the deck for a good launch: > > ONE > Let's take your proposition b). Your say to Taurus Sat is YK. To Capricorn lagna, the 5th lord Venus also acts as yogakaraka. It is a give and take. Where is compensation arising? > > Many such whys and wherefores remain unresolved. One example is the why of kendradhipati dosha. Nobody has found a convincing explanation. I am with you on such forays though. > > TWO > You say Cancer is a selfish sign ( " most selfish cancerians " ). > Then comes " cancerians gives to children " ; " capricorn takes from their children " > Of the two, which is a selfish sign? > > RK Dash > > > kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > Dear all, > > It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha stotram that there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of kaliyuga that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring for them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or simply do not know how to raise a child. > > However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in others. > > For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. > > On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. > > It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- > > a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act as Yoga karaka > b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna > > I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. > > regards, > > Kishore patnaik > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 sreenadhji, thanks for the reply and you have explained well. When I said capricorn is selfish towards its children, i meant that interest of children may not be the first preference from capricorn parents. For eg., if there is an urgent meeting and a kid is suffering from fever, cancer parents goes out of his/her head and will possibly stay back, no matter what are the stakes involving the meeting. A capricorn parent would not do that even when the fever is really high and he/she needs to stay back but he would feel that the meeting is really more important and feels his/her hands are tied from attending his/her child. Of course, it depends upon other planetary combinations to accentuate or alleviate this situation. I hope i am clear and you agree with me. Kishore patnaik On 09 Apr 2007 10:01:16 -0700, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Kishore ji, Take any period of time - * There will be good children and bad children (stress is on their habits) * There will be good mothers and bad mothers (stress is on their attitude towards their own children) * There will be good fathers and bad fathers (stress is on their attitude towards their own children) No body can denay this truth. But ofcourse one should take care in clarifying what he means by 'good' or 'bad' You want to co-relating it with astrology?! Cancer: The chidren of cancer is known to eat its mother i heard. If the same is applied to Cancer sign, then we can't expect children of cancer doing good to their mother. Note that the 5th lord from cancer sign, Ma (lord of Sc) is debilitated in Cancer. The same goes for lord of cancer (Mo) towards her children (5th sign - Sc) as well. Note that Mo is debilitated in Sc. The relation is more or less based on own selfishness for both the mother and children in case of Cn. Capricon: Capricon is water snake?!! As per ancient indian astrology, it is half dear, half crocodile i heard. Some say that it is a big fish - something like a big Shark. The 5th lord of Cp is Ve and it does not have any direct relationship with Cp. But being the 5th and 10th lord Ve becomes the Yogakaraka for Cp, and theirfore for Cp her children should be beneficial to her. By the same logic Cp should be benificial to her children as well - because Sa lord of Cp is Yogakaraka for Ta, the 5th house from Cp. So more or less the relation between Cp and her children is that of mutual help rather than one coming out of selfishness. So your conclusion seems logical - even though i don't have any ready refference examples. But of course these are just generalations based on the nature of signs - which almost always gets over ridden by house,planets and aspects. Love, Sreenadh , " kishore patnaik " <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear all, > > It is Sankaracarya who said in his all famous Devi aparatha stotram that > there are bad sons but not bad mothers. But it is the effect of kaliyuga > that we find mothers and fathers abandoning their children, not caring for > them in their eternal search for more and more carnal pleasures or simply do > not know how to raise a child. > > However, these tendencies are more in some lagna people and less in > others. > > For eg, even the most selfish cancerians can sacrifice anything for the sake > of their children Two fantastic examples can be seen from the modern > politics- Sonia gandhi and Deve gowda. > > On the other hand, capricorn, the sign of water snake can eat away his own > children to quench their own hunger for more materialistic gains. > > It is interesting to see how the yoga karakas work in these lagnas- > > a) Cancerian gives to children To compensate this, the 5th lord ie mars act > as Yoga karaka > b) Capricorn takes from their children. To compensate this, the lagna lord > saturn has to act as Yoga karaka to the 5th lagna ie Tarus lagna > > I appreciate if the group can kindly discuss on these with examples. > > regards, > > Kishore patnaik > > 98492 70729 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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