Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Dear Surya ji, > history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts > with, it is said that god delivered it to four > rishis ......................., or it is said that > brighu son of brahma, got it from > brahma............., The above statements essentially reflect you lack of direct interaction with the original books. 1) As per Skanda Hora (Arsha school of astrology) Skanda taught this knowledge to Brahma, and this first book of astrology, which is also known as Jyothishmati Upanishad, is written by Lord Brahma himself. Brahama taught Daksha Prajapati and the book written by him is known as Brihath Prajapatyam. Daksha taught Saptarshis (7 sages) and they others. Thus the story given in Sounaka in Sounaka hora by Rishi Sounaka goes... 2) As per Garga Hora (Jain school of astrology), Brahma taught Garga Rishi, and he in tern taught all other Saptarshis (7 Sages). Those Rishis also wrote books to preserve this knowledge and thus knowledge spread. This is the story as per Garga Hora. 3) As per Yavana Hora (Yavana school of astrology), Brahma taught Sage Yavaneswara and he in tern taught all others. This is the story as per Yavaneswara hora. Astrology is Vedanga - beause it is used for fixing auspicious muhoortha for Yajnja. For fixing of Muhoortha (Proper time), astronomy and ephemeris part of astrology is necessory, and the concept of Muhurta becomes relevant only when we accept the importance of Predictive astrology. This indicate that whole of astrology (both mathametical and predictive parts of astrology) is Vedanga. Both these parts of astrology is well supported by Vedic culture, and in Vedas we could find the existence of Astrology existing in that period itself. Nirayana astrology is related to Tantiric culture and the breath structure of time. 21600 min in the zodiac circle and 21600 breaths makes a human day! This indicate that Nirayana system of astrology is more related to Sindhu-Sarswaty Tantiric culture than to Vedic culture which promoted Sayana system of astrology. This essentially indicate that astrology could even be older than vedas even though it is also a Vedanga! or rather Sayana Astrology is Vedanga and Nirayana astrology could be older than Vedas and it is part of Non-Vedic culture. My question is from where you got Bhrigu as the first acharya of astrology?! Why you are confusion the use 'Vedanga' and guru-sishya parampara told in astrology?! These things essentially point to the fact that you neither have direct interaction with extracts from these books nor have a systematic method in approaching such issues. " if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500 BC etc " This is what we were telling to you, and you again and again asks the same fooling question, 'how old is Jyothisha?' as if we could give you the birth chart and life details of astrology itself!! :-) But the questions is good - in the sense that it will help us in disusing the proofs available in some of the ancient texts, which could help us in fixing the epochs of at least some original references. But are you asking the question - 1) How old is Jyothisha? OR 2) Are you seeking the list of books originated in Kerala? You seemed to sink in the projected ego of yourself at times. But ok, we will try our best (even though it is not our duty, or something to which we are committed to) to help by providing at least some references to the 'list of books originated in Kerala' and 'Some passing thoughts on the history of astrology'. As you could see, as far as the foolish question 'How old is Jyotisha?' is concerned, we can't help much. But rather you should toil, and try to get some thing out of the box, and in due course of time, your thoughts related to it may become balanced and realistic or hope that the akashik records related to it will become revealed to you. Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar, > I agree with you that nothing should be added or > deleted from the original, but how do you know that > what you have is the original and not a developed > one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras. > history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts > with, it is said that god delivered it to four > rishis ......................., or it is said that > brighu son of brahma, got it from > brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or > vedanta, > rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by > parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes > on and on. > you can not say as a practitioner, the history > part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the > science. If today we are worried that new research > will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was > true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so > which is original, the true text without any > additions. > So, I asked, " how old is jyotish vidya " , here I am > not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to > find out , if anyone added things like uranus and > pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to > contribute what ever information they have with > regard to history. > Thanks! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > Sre_eram <sreeram64 wrote: > Sorry, to left out a question of yours > unanswered in my previous mail > Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of > earth years:-)) > Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians, > only practioners > of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is > the subject is > immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is > centuries old > subject and to " put a figure " of its starting date > is beyond my > knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also. > > The groups- identity as " " > is intended to be > broad intrepretations / outline of subject > discussion strictly on > the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add > or innovate the > subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or > Neptune or Uranus > or new techniques - new dasha systems or house > division systems..... > > Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and > redefine > astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus > acts like > Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated > example of current > research topics - kindly to not take in literal > sense ) > > with regards, > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Dear Vinita ji, Those were nice thoughts. I share the same ... Thanks for the good mail. P.S: When we start to settle down... We begin to wonder, why these doubts...! This moment!!! Let us float in love! Existence! No words! I can't describe it! When we see how small we are... Time, God and the real vastness!! Me in wonder - Oh! I don't know!!! Wonder stuck, I say calm, Oh!! Questions? Answers? I don't have them both!!! Mouth opened, I stay wonder struck! Doubts?! I don't know where they are! I know you too don't..... Ok. Ok. You want to play the logic game. right? Then make the questions and catch the logic ladder. I too would like to play. There is an answer! Catch him, and don’t let him go!! Here is another! And other one there!!! Love, Sreenadh --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, > > Pranam! > > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted > to respond to a > few statements in your message: > > " discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > come to the > truth " > > Now what is the " truth " for such a search? The > seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on? > Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient > fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha > vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know > knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the > knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at > the truth??? > Only God knows! :) > > " Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there > is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing > Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in > contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can > only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our > existence and > existence of jyotish vidya. " > > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in > all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and > therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the > Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including > persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS > PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness > within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the > memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with > brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth > but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and > not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters > for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into > pure > consciousness. > > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us > search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of > Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end > of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal > existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not > that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when > jyotish began > would help :) > > Love, > > Vinita > > Love, > > Vinita > > > , > surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Vinita jee, pranam, > > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only > god > knows ....... " , > > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in > Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and > acharya, Arjuna > and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup. > > So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge > came from god, > and so did jyotish vidya. > > Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe > there is some form > of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the > feet, otherwise, > all these discoveries etc would not have been there. > > So, here we are not cursing Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, > and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither > can we visit, the > lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down > the memory lane > with regards to our existence and existence of > jyotish vidya. > > Thanks for the comments!:-) > > So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or > human years? > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > > Dear Suryaji, > > > > Pranam! > > > > This is also just for discussion's sake. History > of > astrology....how > > old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind > it is not > > strictly correct....because man may not have known > astrology when > he > > first evolved or was created on this earth....but > the rythms of > time > > and the cycles it creates existed from the time of > CREATION > itself. > > But when did knowledge about TIME first come into > being? There are > > mythical stories about time and its power on > physical existence. > > There are also mythical stories about moving back > and forth in > time > > to understand the nature of Maya. For instance > there is the story > of > > sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time > of his son > > Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse > him.Kala took a > > physical form and explained, " I have not been > burnt up by the > > conflagrations even during the times of deluge. > Are you going to > > harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds > have been gulped by > > me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been > swallowed up. We > > are the devourers and others are > eatable....Without understanding > > the course of events caused by one's own karma how > like an > ignorant > > person do you desire to curse me?... There is > neither doer nor > > enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth. " Sage > Bhrigu at the end of > a > > long dialogue with Kala had to concede, " O divine > lord, Ruler of > the > > past and the present universe we are indeed > adoloscents with > > imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like > thee have perfect > > vision of the past, present and future " . > > > > So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect > knowledge about > time > > can we seek to know the history of > time???;)....or history of > > knowledge of time??? > > > > As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. > Only God knows > > when knowledge of astrology first came into being > on this very > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Logic ladder thrown here and there Why can't I catch in a game so fair? But suspended in mid air before the fall One moment of truth; one answer to the call If only I could have…. That would be all! This falling, this floating, This agony, this doubt Life's gory battles we fought; The silly games we lost…. Don't u think it will then be worth it all? So let me fall, let me fall! , sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Vinita ji, > Those were nice thoughts. I share the same ... > Thanks for the good mail. > > P.S: > When we start to settle down... > We begin to wonder, why these doubts...! > This moment!!! Let us float in love! > Existence! No words! I can't describe it! > When we see how small we are... > Time, God and the real vastness!! > Me in wonder - Oh! I don't know!!! > > Wonder stuck, I say calm, Oh!! > Questions? Answers? > I don't have them both!!! > Mouth opened, I stay wonder struck! > > Doubts?! I don't know where they are! > I know you too don't..... > > Ok. Ok. You want to play the logic game. right? > Then make the questions and catch the logic ladder. > I too would like to play. > There is an answer! Catch him, and don't let him > go!! > Here is another! And other one there!!! > Love, > Sreenadh > > > --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > > > Dear Suryaji, > > > > Pranam! > > > > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted > > to respond to a > > few statements in your message: > > > > " discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > > come to the > > truth " > > > > Now what is the " truth " for such a search? The > > seeker of truth wants > > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on? > > Fossils/texts which > > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient > > fossil/text as yet > > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha > > vidya? What if the > > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know > > knowledge was > > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the > > knowledge occured > > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at > > the truth??? > > Only God knows! :) > > > > " Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there > > is some form of > > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing > > Kala or even > > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in > > contact with us, > > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can > > only try to > > travel down the memory lane with regards to our > > existence and > > existence of jyotish vidya. " > > > > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in > > all of us why > > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and > > therefore we > > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the > > Masters of the past > > and the present say the same thing...including > > persons like Deepak > > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS > > PRESENT MOMENT? > > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness > > within us we can > > get the answers without having to walk down the > > memory lane. But > > since we are not really concsious / in contact with > > brighu or a > > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth > > but never ever > > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and > > not in history, > > or so say the great masters.....the great masters > > for whom TIME > > stands still or does not exist when they delve into > > pure > > consciousness. > > > > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us > > search and let > > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of > > Jyotish > > began......;) > > > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end > > of such a search > > what will be its relevance to our personal > > existence? Ooops does > > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not > > that. I too > > would like to know how knowledge of the date when > > jyotish began > > would help :) > > > > Love, > > > > Vinita > > > > Love, > > > > Vinita > > > > > > , > > surya ianala > > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Vinita jee, pranam, > > > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only > > god > > knows ....... " , > > > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > > come to the > > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in > > Bhagwat Geeta there > > is great discussion/argument between disciple and > > acharya, Arjuna > > and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup. > > > So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge > > came from god, > > and so did jyotish vidya. > > > Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe > > there is some form > > of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the > > feet, otherwise, > > all these discoveries etc would not have been there. > > > So, here we are not cursing Kala or even > > behaving like bhrigu, > > and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither > > can we visit, the > > lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down > > the memory lane > > with regards to our existence and existence of > > jyotish vidya. > > > Thanks for the comments!:-) > > > So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or > > human years? > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > > Dear Suryaji, > > > > > > Pranam! > > > > > > This is also just for discussion's sake. History > > of > > astrology....how > > > old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind > > it is not > > > strictly correct....because man may not have known > > astrology when > > he > > > first evolved or was created on this earth....but > > the rythms of > > time > > > and the cycles it creates existed from the time of > > CREATION > > itself. > > > But when did knowledge about TIME first come into > > being? There are > > > mythical stories about time and its power on > > physical existence. > > > There are also mythical stories about moving back > > and forth in > > time > > > to understand the nature of Maya. For instance > > there is the story > > of > > > sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time > > of his son > > > Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse > > him.Kala took a > > > physical form and explained, " I have not been > > burnt up by the > > > conflagrations even during the times of deluge. > > Are you going to > > > harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds > > have been gulped by > > > me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been > > swallowed up. We > > > are the devourers and others are > > eatable....Without understanding > > > the course of events caused by one's own karma how > > like an > > ignorant > > > person do you desire to curse me?... There is > > neither doer nor > > > enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth. " Sage > > Bhrigu at the end of > > a > > > long dialogue with Kala had to concede, " O divine > > lord, Ruler of > > the > > > past and the present universe we are indeed > > adoloscents with > > > imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like > > thee have perfect > > > vision of the past, present and future " . > > > > > > So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect > > knowledge about > > time > > > can we seek to know the history of > > time???;)....or history of > > > knowledge of time??? > > > > > > As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. > > Only God knows > > > when knowledge of astrology first came into being > > on this very > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! Thanks! for such beautiful words, and regarding ego, it is a relative factor, if you see ego in me, it is because you are having ego problems, :-) If you see a true seeker in me, you are a true seeker yourself, if you see a good guy in me, it is because you are a good guy, everything is just a reflection only, :-), we do not like those who reflect our image. I do not know from where you are dragging all this, ego, sarcasm, lesson, all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Probable answers could be: I know it, I can attempt it, I do not know, I am sorry, I can not attempt it, I have no idea, etc. etc. but not ego, sarcasm, lesson etc etc. this is really getting beautiful, :-))))) Please akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvani, and cosmic mind does not reveal anything, it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person, I am just using your tone.ha..ha hugs..............:-) hope you will understand, do not take everything personally, take it as a point of discussion. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,All good, but decrease the ego, and be realistic. :)These people whom you are talking to such as Sreeram,Vinita, RK etc are toiling with this subject for longand is for sure spiritually elite. :)Rather than sarcasm here people are more interestedin learning and being friendly to each other. Isthere any lesson in that? :)Now, coming to the point:Logic can not lead one to the ultimate, but logic isvery useful in systematic studies. The ultimate isbeyond logic and thoughts - and the better path inspirituality is meditation than argument, or ratherargument is not a path at all! In systematic study ofsubjects for a doctorate of the like, or to publish aresearch paper, arguments will help, and of coursethere logic leads the way.Akashik records (knowledge revealed by the cosmicmind) is something you can access without violatingthe logical limit of BC 5000 - BC 10000 period originfor Ancient Indian Astrology. 1) Meditate to know the truth about Akashik records.2) Study History to know truth about Origin ofancient Indian knowledge on astrology and ancientIndian culture.Neither exaggeration nor neglecting will show us thecorrect path as Budha says take the well balancedmiddle path. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah> Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar!> I think you answered your own questions, :-)> It is true that god only knows the truth, and the> truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to> lack of true seekers for truth is currently present> as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is> dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around> 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500> BC etc, I think the discussion in>http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> tells the story why?> Reason why, > I have put god- its creator as a starting point.> Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is> the end of the rope of the memory lane.> Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to> fill it with one stroke, right,> first we have to put available markers, history,> reach to a point maximum possible, then there are> facts, vedas were passed on to the following > generations verbally, from time immemorial, > A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link> the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology,> brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc.> One day the fossils, artefacts everything will> comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a> theory, and one day it will be taught in schools.> how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of> education in west, in india it is still a topic of> discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west> called india as a country of superstitions and snake> charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and> there are more vedic astrology research centres,> yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was> only IQ and EQ,> Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a> long time or time immemorial.> Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it> is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but> everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like> brighu,> and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the> time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact> brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is> jyotish please.:-) No.> It is true the once you reach that point in super> concious or the cosmic mind, which records every> time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic> records, we will know every truth. it is not a> fantasy for me:-)> Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the> cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you> convince people about it, it is very difficult, it> will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or> creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The> importance will catch it after certain time not> immediately, like today we take a treatise or a> scriptual text and use it without validating it. we> believe it to be true of its content.> As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have> to dig, toil.......:-)> Your last point, how it will help our personal> existence.> Why do we read history: It is an account of past> mistakes, and one should read history to avoid> already committed mistakes, well it does not> guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but> then we have to create history for our descendents.> Why do you think so much research is carried out> to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology,> etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how> things shaped up in the past, so that we can> extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind> or future of our nature.> Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one> day in big corporates there will be resident> astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a> profile of the person being recruited, so that the> managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in> exact areas of work sphere.> Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind> almost everything, I can go on and on like this for> pages, but before we reach that point, we have to> consolidate our position as an astrologer, with> correct history, its development, its application,> and for its predictive abilities. so that the future> generations who take up this science, take up with> pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice.> So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-)> Thanks> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji,> > Pranam!> > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted> to respond to a > few statements in your message:> > "discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth"> > Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The> seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on?> Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient> fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha> vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know> knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the> knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at> the truth??? > Only God knows! :)> > "Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there> is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing> Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in> contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can> only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our> existence and > existence of jyotish vidya."> > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in> all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and> therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the> Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including> persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS> PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness> within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the> memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with> brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth> but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and> not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters> for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into> pure > consciousness.> > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us> search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of> Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end> of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal> existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not> that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when> jyotish began > would help :)> > Love,> > Vinita> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only> god > knows .......",> > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in> Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and> acharya, Arjuna > === message truncated === Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, Excellant! :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,K V Sarma has published a detailed bibliography ofastrology books originated in Kerala. It was publishedby Hoshiyarpur University, Punjab. (You can get a copyof the book by writing to them) I will try to providedthe name of the book by tomorrow. You will get thelist of 'Kerala sastras' related to astrology fromthat. :-)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar,> Thanks for pulling some interesting sites, no 2,> has a very interesting discussion, which clearly> tells the story behind dating, there is a big> possibility that most of dates were fixed with or> without any actual evidence, and during that time,> no one from india could have been in a position to> guard the indian interest, given the fact that india> was under foreign rule for almost 10 centuries.> One interesting site is :> http://www.hindureligions.com/Astro/Astro_1.htm> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> Dear Surya ji and All other friends,> Here are some links that may increase your thirst> for> knowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge.> >1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html>2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> 3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html> 4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html>5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm>6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm> 7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm > > Actually there could be many such sites. Even a> small search shows me that there could be hundreds> of> sites from where you could get valuable martial,> that> could guide you in your search to find > 1) a common link between "Precession and History of> Ancient India".> 2) Similarly you could find many sites which lists> the contributions of ancient Keralaites to> mathematics> and astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the> search> of knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture.> > Best wishes in your endeavors,> Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas,> > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology,> > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near> > each other, I have already presented them.> > So, since this forum is called> > "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the> first> > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient"> > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million,> 5> > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-)> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> > may be discovered > > next?> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > ,> > surya ianala > > <suri_allam wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat> me> > like a kid :-> > )) please.> > > It is really getting beautiful, as per> > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40> > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there> are> > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only> we> > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> > extinct, > > knowledge wise.> > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame> projected> > by fossils.> > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast.> > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of> human> > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human> years.> > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human> years> > old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002> => > 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle> of> > creation- > > destruction-> > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years=> > One > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> > years, or human > > years.> > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that> the> > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory> based> > on> > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> > human> > > years!> > > If you want to learn more read the articles in> > files> > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better> not> > to> > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try> to> > > understand them as they are!> > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> > an> > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me -> > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> > contained> > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as> the> === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Srenadh Jee, Namaskar! There you go again!, personal attacks will not do any good to you, me or jyotish or the poor question, It is a question which needs to be addressed, not my personal attributes, if you keep your traits in check, mine will automatically vanish. All you have to do is answer a question if possible for you, or do not attempt it, it is not necessary that you have to attempt it, if you think it is a foolish question leave it, do not write all that $#$$#%$^%^. remember ego, sarcasm, and lesson your words! :-) and not mine. See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) It is your prerogative to keep the tone of the email with in respectable limits, hope you undestand. question remains? :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma.............,The above statements essentially reflect you lack ofdirect interaction with the original books. :)1) As per Skanda Hora (Arsha school of astrology)Skanda taught this knowledge to Brahma, and this firstbook of astrology, which is also known as JyothishmatiUpanishad, is written by Lord Brahma himself. Brahamataught Daksha Prajapati and the book written by him isknown as Brihath Prajapatyam. Daksha taught Saptarshis(7 sages) and they others. Thus the story given inSounaka in Sounaka hora by Rishi Sounaka goes...2) As per Garga Hora (Jain school of astrology),Brahma taught Garga Rishi, and he in tern taught allother Saptarshis (7 Sages). Those Rishis also wrotebooks to preserve this knowledge and thus knowledgespread. This is the story as per Garga Hora.3) As per Yavana Hora (Yavana school of astrology),Brahma taught Sage Yavaneswara and he in tern taughtall others. This is the story as per Yavaneswara hora.Astrology is Vedanga - beause it is used for fixingauspicious muhoortha for Yajnja. For fixing ofMuhoortha (Proper time), astronomy and ephemeris partof astrology is necessory, and the concept of Muhurtabecomes relevant only when we accept the importance ofPredictive astrology. This indicate that whole ofastrology (both mathametical and predictive parts ofastrology) is Vedanga. Both these parts of astrologyis well supported by Vedic culture, and in Vedas wecould find the existence of Astrology existing in thatperiod itself. Nirayana astrology is related toTantiric culture and the breath structure of time.21600 min in the zodiac circle and 21600 breaths makesa human day! This indicate that Nirayana system ofastrology is more related to Sindhu-Sarswaty Tantiricculture than to Vedic culture which promoted Sayanasystem of astrology.This essentially indicate that astrology could evenbe older than vedas even though it is also a Vedanga!or rather Sayana Astrology is Vedanga and Nirayanaastrology could be older than Vedas and it is part ofNon-Vedic culture.My question is from where you got Bhrigu as the firstacharya of astrology?! Why you are confusion the use'Vedanga' and guru-sishya parampara told inastrology?! These things essentially point to the factthat you neither have direct interaction with extractsfrom these books nor have a systematic method inapproaching such issues. "if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now someare saying it is around 7500 BC etc"This is what we were telling to you, and you againand again asks the same fooling question, 'how old isJyothisha?' as if we could give you the birth chartand life details of astrology itself!! :-):)But the questions is good - in the sense that itwill help us in disusing the proofs available in someof the ancient texts, which could help us in fixingthe epochs of at least some original references. But are you asking the question -1) How old is Jyothisha? OR2) Are you seeking the list of books originated inKerala?You seemed to sink in the projected ego of yourselfat times. But ok, we will try our best (even though itis not our duty, or something to which we arecommitted to) to help by providing at least somereferences to the 'list of books originated in Kerala'and 'Some passing thoughts on the history ofastrology'. As you could see, as far as the foolishquestion 'How old is Jyotisha?' is concerned, we can'thelp much. But rather you should toil, and try to getsome thing out of the box, and in due course of time,your thoughts related to it may become balanced andrealistic or hope that the akashik records related toit will become revealed to you. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar,> I agree with you that nothing should be added or> deleted from the original, but how do you know that> what you have is the original and not a developed> one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras.> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or> vedanta,> rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by> parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes> on and on.> you can not say as a practitioner, the history> part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the> science. If today we are worried that new research> will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was> true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so> which is original, the true text without any> additions.> So, I asked," how old is jyotish vidya", here I am> not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to> find out , if anyone added things like uranus and> pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to> contribute what ever information they have with> regard to history.> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > Sre_eram <sreeram64 (AT) satyam (DOT) net.in> wrote:> Sorry, to left out a question of yours> unanswered in my previous mail> Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of> earth years:-))> Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians,> only practioners > of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is> the subject is > immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is> centuries old > subject and to "put a figure" of its starting date> is beyond my > knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also.> > The groups- identity as ""> is intended to be > broad intrepretations / outline of subject> discussion strictly on > the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add> or innovate the > subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or> Neptune or Uranus > or new techniques - new dasha systems or house> division systems.....> > Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and> redefine > astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus> acts like > Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated> example of current > research topics - kindly to not take in literal> sense )> > with regards,> sreeram srinivas> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Dear Surya ji, The book's name is "A History of the Kerala School of Astronomy" by K.V.Sarma. Viswaswaranantha Institure, Hoshiyarpur.Love,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, Excellant! :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,K V Sarma has published a detailed bibliography ofastrology books originated in Kerala. It was publishedby Hoshiyarpur University, Punjab. (You can get a copyof the book by writing to them) I will try to providedthe name of the book by tomorrow. You will get thelist of 'Kerala sastras' related to astrology fromthat. :-)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar,> Thanks for pulling some interesting sites, no 2,> has a very interesting discussion, which clearly> tells the story behind dating, there is a big> possibility that most of dates were fixed with or> without any actual evidence, and during that time,> no one from india could have been in a position to> guard the indian interest, given the fact that india> was under foreign rule for almost 10 centuries.> One interesting site is :> http://www.hindureligions.com/Astro/Astro_1.htm> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> Dear Surya ji and All other friends,> Here are some links that may increase your thirst> for> knowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge.> >1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html>2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> 3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html> 4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html>5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm>6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm> 7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm > > Actually there could be many such sites. Even a> small search shows me that there could be hundreds> of> sites from where you could get valuable martial,> that> could guide you in your search to find > 1) a common link between "Precession and History of> Ancient India".> 2) Similarly you could find many sites which lists> the contributions of ancient Keralaites to> mathematics> and astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the> search> of knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture.> > Best wishes in your endeavors,> Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas,> > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology,> > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near> > each other, I have already presented them.> > So, since this forum is called> > "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the> first> > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient"> > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million,> 5> > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-)> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> > may be discovered > > next?> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > ,> > surya ianala > > <suri_allam wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat> me> > like a kid :-> > )) please.> > > It is really getting beautiful, as per> > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40> > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there> are> > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only> we> > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> > extinct, > > knowledge wise.> > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame> projected> > by fossils.> > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast.> > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of> human> > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human> years.> > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human> years> > old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002> => > 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle> of> > creation- > > destruction-> > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years=> > One > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> > years, or human > > years.> > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that> the> > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory> based> > on> > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> > human> > > years!> > > If you want to learn more read the articles in> > files> > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better> not> > to> > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try> to> > > understand them as they are!> > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> > an> > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me -> > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> > contained> > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as> the> === message truncated === Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Dear Surya ji, First of all everything is not a reflection. Do you mean we can't be objective at all? ok. I don't force an answer - just think of this question, that is all. > all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Is it a question answer session?! Somebody is 'demanding' answer, and others 'should' answer?!! What kind of attitude is this?! - I wonder. Is it not kid like?!! > akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvani Phew..! Do you mean in 'akashic' (meaning, from the sky) and akash-vani (words from the sky) matches? ok. right. But I would better like to transilate the word akash used in the current context, as cosmic rather than sky. By the way 'akashvani' is a term used for 'All India Radio' in India. :-) > cosmic mind does not reveal anything !!!! I don't have anything to say.......! As far as I know, the cosmic mind reveals many things! I would like to know, what others tell about this opinion of Surya ji. The heart felt prayer of a Yogi, true Astrologer, truly spiritual person etc is - "Let the earth, water, wind, fire, sky, vacuum, education, mind, the waves and the sea ....... and what not, let this whole world be felt by me like an awakened oneness and let it all give the true knowledge to me" . Or when it happens, (normally in meditation), I won't be there but only the vibrant reality. I really don't know, these words could reach upto you or not. Yes, I am speaking of the feeling and communication that happens between the cosmic mind and the true seeker. As far I know, the cosmic mind does reveal many things......... >it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. It is not a book shelf from which some one can take the akashik records and read! There are 2 biggest books one can have - 1) The Universe (Cosmic reality - Outer world) 2) Our selves (The Mind - Inner world) They do communicate each other : 1) Through the 5 senses 2) Through some subtle ways (may be thought waves.. or who knows what ...) > Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person. Yes, you are absolutely right - but please use reflection as well, me too will do the same. Yes, it is the subject that is important and not the persons. The word person comes from the word 'persona' meaning 'mask'. Therefore normally it is better to use the word 'individual'. All the individuals in this group, like the dicussion of the subject in a respectable and friendly atmosphere I feel. Keep up the curiosity - all the best. Love and Hugs, Sreenadh surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! Thanks! for such beautiful words, and regarding ego, it is a relative factor, if you see ego in me, it is because you are having ego problems, :-) If you see a true seeker in me, you are a true seeker yourself, if you see a good guy in me, it is because you are a good guy, everything is just a reflection only, :-), we do not like those who reflect our image. I do not know from where you are dragging all this, ego, sarcasm, lesson, all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Probable answers could be: I know it, I can attempt it, I do not know, I am sorry, I can not attempt it, I have no idea, etc. etc. but not ego, sarcasm, lesson etc etc. this is really getting beautiful, :-))))) Please akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvani, and cosmic mind does not reveal anything, it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person, I am just using your tone.ha..ha hugs..............:-) hope you will understand, do not take everything personally, take it as a point of discussion. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,All good, but decrease the ego, and be realistic. :)These people whom you are talking to such as Sreeram,Vinita, RK etc are toiling with this subject for longand is for sure spiritually elite. :)Rather than sarcasm here people are more interestedin learning and being friendly to each other. Isthere any lesson in that? :)Now, coming to the point:Logic can not lead one to the ultimate, but logic isvery useful in systematic studies. The ultimate isbeyond logic and thoughts - and the better path inspirituality is meditation than argument, or ratherargument is not a path at all! In systematic study ofsubjects for a doctorate of the like, or to publish aresearch paper, arguments will help, and of coursethere logic leads the way.Akashik records (knowledge revealed by the cosmicmind) is something you can access without violatingthe logical limit of BC 5000 - BC 10000 period originfor Ancient Indian Astrology. 1) Meditate to know the truth about Akashik records.2) Study History to know truth about Origin ofancient Indian knowledge on astrology and ancientIndian culture.Neither exaggeration nor neglecting will show us thecorrect path as Budha says take the well balancedmiddle path. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah> Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar!> I think you answered your own questions, :-)> It is true that god only knows the truth, and the> truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to> lack of true seekers for truth is currently present> as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is> dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around> 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500> BC etc, I think the discussion in>http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> tells the story why?> Reason why, > I have put god- its creator as a starting point.> Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is> the end of the rope of the memory lane.> Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to> fill it with one stroke, right,> first we have to put available markers, history,> reach to a point maximum possible, then there are> facts, vedas were passed on to the following > generations verbally, from time immemorial, > A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link> the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology,> brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc.> One day the fossils, artefacts everything will> comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a> theory, and one day it will be taught in schools.> how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of> education in west, in india it is still a topic of> discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west> called india as a country of superstitions and snake> charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and> there are more vedic astrology research centres,> yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was> only IQ and EQ,> Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a> long time or time immemorial.> Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it> is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but> everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like> brighu,> and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the> time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact> brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is> jyotish please.:-) No.> It is true the once you reach that point in super> concious or the cosmic mind, which records every> time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic> records, we will know every truth. it is not a> fantasy for me:-)> Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the> cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you> convince people about it, it is very difficult, it> will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or> creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The> importance will catch it after certain time not> immediately, like today we take a treatise or a> scriptual text and use it without validating it. we> believe it to be true of its content.> As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have> to dig, toil.......:-)> Your last point, how it will help our personal> existence.> Why do we read history: It is an account of past> mistakes, and one should read history to avoid> already committed mistakes, well it does not> guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but> then we have to create history for our descendents.> Why do you think so much research is carried out> to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology,> etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how> things shaped up in the past, so that we can> extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind> or future of our nature.> Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one> day in big corporates there will be resident> astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a> profile of the person being recruited, so that the> managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in> exact areas of work sphere.> Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind> almost everything, I can go on and on like this for> pages, but before we reach that point, we have to> consolidate our position as an astrologer, with> correct history, its development, its application,> and for its predictive abilities. so that the future> generations who take up this science, take up with> pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice.> So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-)> Thanks> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji,> > Pranam!> > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted> to respond to a > few statements in your message:> > "discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth"> > Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The> seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on?> Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient> fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha> vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know> knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the> knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at> the truth??? > Only God knows! :)> > "Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there> is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing> Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in> contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can> only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our> existence and > existence of jyotish vidya."> > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in> all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and> therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the> Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including> persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS> PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness> within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the> memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with> brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth> but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and> not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters> for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into> pure > consciousness.> > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us> search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of> Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end> of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal> existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not> that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when> jyotish began > would help :)> > Love,> > Vinita> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only> god > knows .......",> > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in> Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and> acharya, Arjuna > === message truncated === Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 >Life's gory battles we fought; >The silly games we lost…. Beautiful !!! > Don't u think it will then be worth it all? > So let me fall, let me fall! Yes, I too would love to loss and fall ....... than win..and then what....? Only to know that we lost the most beautiful thing that is life...the moment! Yes, it is rather better to be in the subtle joys.. and embrace the failure that is sure to happen.... and then too be happy... Weird is the ways of god! Worldly way --> Survival of the fittest --> The way of win and ultimate loss! Godly way --> Be with love --> The path to failure and ultimate win! Why the evolution outwardly supports 'power' and innately supports 'subtle qualities like love'? Who is the winner and who is loser? Christ got crucified (failed) and won the world! Buddha born as a king died in a small village known by none at that time (failed) and then too won the world! Socrates had to drink poison (failed) and still won the world! Osho was poisoned to death (failed) and still won the world! Am I using improper words? Won the world, or won the god, or is it that they won them selves... or is it that they choose to lose..(by utterly discarding the false notion that life is a competition and they are fighters) and later the world realized that they are true winners.........Who knows! Yes, I would love to echo the words - Life's gory battles we fought; The silly games we lost…. Don't u think it will then be worth it all? So let me fall, let me fall! Love, Sreenadh vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: Logic ladder thrown here and thereWhy can't I catch in a game so fair?But suspended in mid air before the fall One moment of truth; one answer to the callIf only I could have….That would be all!This falling, this floating, This agony, this doubtLife's gory battles we fought; The silly games we lost…. Don't u think it will then be worth it all?So let me fall, let me fall! , sree nadh wrote:>> Dear Vinita ji,> Those were nice thoughts. I share the same ... > Thanks for the good mail. > > P.S: > When we start to settle down...> We begin to wonder, why these doubts...!> This moment!!! Let us float in love! > Existence! No words! I can't describe it! > When we see how small we are... > Time, God and the real vastness!!> Me in wonder - Oh! I don't know!!!> > Wonder stuck, I say calm, Oh!!> Questions? Answers?> I don't have them both!!!> Mouth opened, I stay wonder struck!> > Doubts?! I don't know where they are!> I know you too don't.....> > Ok. Ok. You want to play the logic game. right? > Then make the questions and catch the logic ladder.> I too would like to play. > There is an answer! Catch him, and don't let him> go!!> Here is another! And other one there!!!> Love,> Sreenadh> > > --- vinita kumar wrote:> > > Dear Suryaji,> > > > Pranam!> > > > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted> > to respond to a > > few statements in your message:> > > > "discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> > come to the > > truth"> > > > Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The> > seeker of truth wants > > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on?> > Fossils/texts which > > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient> > fossil/text as yet > > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha> > vidya? What if the > > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know> > knowledge was > > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the> > knowledge occured > > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at> > the truth??? > > Only God knows! :)> > > > "Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there> > is some form of > > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing> > Kala or even > > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in> > contact with us, > > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can> > only try to > > travel down the memory lane with regards to our> > existence and > > existence of jyotish vidya."> > > > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in> > all of us why > > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and> > therefore we > > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the> > Masters of the past > > and the present say the same thing...including> > persons like Deepak > > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS> > PRESENT MOMENT? > > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness> > within us we can > > get the answers without having to walk down the> > memory lane. But > > since we are not really concsious / in contact with> > brighu or a > > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth> > but never ever > > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and> > not in history, > > or so say the great masters.....the great masters> > for whom TIME > > stands still or does not exist when they delve into> > pure > > consciousness.> > > > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us> > search and let > > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of> > Jyotish > > began......;) > > > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end> > of such a search > > what will be its relevance to our personal> > existence? Ooops does > > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not> > that. I too > > would like to know how knowledge of the date when> > jyotish began > > would help :)> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > > > ,> > surya ianala > > wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> > > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only> > god > > knows .......",> > > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> > come to the > > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in> > Bhagwat Geeta there > > is great discussion/argument between disciple and> > acharya, Arjuna > > and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup.> > > So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge> > came from god, > > and so did jyotish vidya.> > > Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe> > there is some form > > of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the> > feet, otherwise, > > all these discoveries etc would not have been there.> > > So, here we are not cursing Kala or even> > behaving like bhrigu, > > and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither> > can we visit, the > > lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down > > the memory lane > > with regards to our existence and existence of> > jyotish vidya. > > > Thanks for the comments!:-)> > > So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or> > human years?> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > vinita kumar wrote:> > > Dear Suryaji,> > > > > > Pranam!> > > > > > This is also just for discussion's sake. History> > of > > astrology....how > > > old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind> > it is not > > > strictly correct....because man may not have known> > astrology when > > he > > > first evolved or was created on this earth....but> > the rythms of > > time > > > and the cycles it creates existed from the time of> > CREATION > > itself. > > > But when did knowledge about TIME first come into> > being? There are > > > mythical stories about time and its power on> > physical existence. > > > There are also mythical stories about moving back> > and forth in > > time > > > to understand the nature of Maya. For instance> > there is the story > > of > > > sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time> > of his son > > > Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse> > him.Kala took a > > > physical form and explained, "I have not been> > burnt up by the > > > conflagrations even during the times of deluge.> > Are you going to > > > harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds> > have been gulped by > > > me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been> > swallowed up. We > > > are the devourers and others are> > eatable....Without understanding > > > the course of events caused by one's own karma how> > like an > > ignorant > > > person do you desire to curse me?... There is> > neither doer nor > > > enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth." Sage> > Bhrigu at the end of > > a > > > long dialogue with Kala had to concede, "O divine> > lord, Ruler of > > the > > > past and the present universe we are indeed> > adoloscents with > > > imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like> > thee have perfect > > > vision of the past, present and future".> > > > > > So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect> > knowledge about > > time > > > can we seek to know the history of> > time???;)....or history of > > > knowledge of time???> > > > > > As i said this is only for the sake of discussion.> > Only God knows > > > when knowledge of astrology first came into being> > on this very > > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Dear Surya ji, > See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) That sounds good...! I am praised.. I would love to be with them, because one should know that his at least some of his fore fathers were really knowledgeable persons. In India we are proud of our fore fathers and as you know the whole of Vedic knowledge and astrology and many more subjects given to us by those gifted scholars - the great Rishis. We love, respect and value our fore fathers and event the stories they told. Just see Mahabharata, Ramayana or the Puranas. Either the stories had some special hidden knowledge or some lessens to taught about human behavior and worldly situations. They were really wise, and the stories really good. Actually in astrology we are trying to understand the wise stories told to us by our fore fathers. They hide most of the knowledge in stories, because they know that most there ancestors will be fools who will not value their knowledge and loss it in the way. So they encoded it metaphorically in stories so that at least someone of the posterity will understand its value and decipher it. May be you too is part of that decoding process - the rhythm continues...as always........ Love, Sreenadh surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Srenadh Jee, Namaskar! There you go again!, personal attacks will not do any good to you, me or jyotish or the poor question, It is a question which needs to be addressed, not my personal attributes, if you keep your traits in check, mine will automatically vanish. All you have to do is answer a question if possible for you, or do not attempt it, it is not necessary that you have to attempt it, if you think it is a foolish question leave it, do not write all that $#$$#%$^%^. remember ego, sarcasm, and lesson your words! :-) and not mine. See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) It is your prerogative to keep the tone of the email with in respectable limits, hope you undestand. question remains? :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma.............,The above statements essentially reflect you lack ofdirect interaction with the original books. :)1) As per Skanda Hora (Arsha school of astrology)Skanda taught this knowledge to Brahma, and this firstbook of astrology, which is also known as JyothishmatiUpanishad, is written by Lord Brahma himself. Brahamataught Daksha Prajapati and the book written by him isknown as Brihath Prajapatyam. Daksha taught Saptarshis(7 sages) and they others. Thus the story given inSounaka in Sounaka hora by Rishi Sounaka goes...2) As per Garga Hora (Jain school of astrology),Brahma taught Garga Rishi, and he in tern taught allother Saptarshis (7 Sages). Those Rishis also wrotebooks to preserve this knowledge and thus knowledgespread. This is the story as per Garga Hora.3) As per Yavana Hora (Yavana school of astrology),Brahma taught Sage Yavaneswara and he in tern taughtall others. This is the story as per Yavaneswara hora.Astrology is Vedanga - beause it is used for fixingauspicious muhoortha for Yajnja. For fixing ofMuhoortha (Proper time), astronomy and ephemeris partof astrology is necessory, and the concept of Muhurtabecomes relevant only when we accept the importance ofPredictive astrology. This indicate that whole ofastrology (both mathametical and predictive parts ofastrology) is Vedanga. Both these parts of astrologyis well supported by Vedic culture, and in Vedas wecould find the existence of Astrology existing in thatperiod itself. Nirayana astrology is related toTantiric culture and the breath structure of time.21600 min in the zodiac circle and 21600 breaths makesa human day! This indicate that Nirayana system ofastrology is more related to Sindhu-Sarswaty Tantiricculture than to Vedic culture which promoted Sayanasystem of astrology.This essentially indicate that astrology could evenbe older than vedas even though it is also a Vedanga!or rather Sayana Astrology is Vedanga and Nirayanaastrology could be older than Vedas and it is part ofNon-Vedic culture.My question is from where you got Bhrigu as the firstacharya of astrology?! Why you are confusion the use'Vedanga' and guru-sishya parampara told inastrology?! These things essentially point to the factthat you neither have direct interaction with extractsfrom these books nor have a systematic method inapproaching such issues. "if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now someare saying it is around 7500 BC etc"This is what we were telling to you, and you againand again asks the same fooling question, 'how old isJyothisha?' as if we could give you the birth chartand life details of astrology itself!! :-):)But the questions is good - in the sense that itwill help us in disusing the proofs available in someof the ancient texts, which could help us in fixingthe epochs of at least some original references. But are you asking the question -1) How old is Jyothisha? OR2) Are you seeking the list of books originated inKerala?You seemed to sink in the projected ego of yourselfat times. But ok, we will try our best (even though itis not our duty, or something to which we arecommitted to) to help by providing at least somereferences to the 'list of books originated in Kerala'and 'Some passing thoughts on the history ofastrology'. As you could see, as far as the foolishquestion 'How old is Jyotisha?' is concerned, we can'thelp much. But rather you should toil, and try to getsome thing out of the box, and in due course of time,your thoughts related to it may become balanced andrealistic or hope that the akashik records related toit will become revealed to you. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar,> I agree with you that nothing should be added or> deleted from the original, but how do you know that> what you have is the original and not a developed> one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras.> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or> vedanta,> rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by> parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes> on and on.> you can not say as a practitioner, the history> part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the> science. If today we are worried that new research> will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was> true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so> which is original, the true text without any> additions.> So, I asked," how old is jyotish vidya", here I am> not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to> find out , if anyone added things like uranus and> pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to> contribute what ever information they have with> regard to history.> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > Sre_eram <sreeram64 (AT) satyam (DOT) net.in> wrote:> Sorry, to left out a question of yours> unanswered in my previous mail> Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of> earth years:-))> Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians,> only practioners > of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is> the subject is > immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is> centuries old > subject and to "put a figure" of its starting date> is beyond my > knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also.> > The groups- identity as ""> is intended to be > broad intrepretations / outline of subject> discussion strictly on > the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add> or innovate the > subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or> Neptune or Uranus > or new techniques - new dasha systems or house> division systems.....> > Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and> redefine > astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus> acts like > Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated> example of current > research topics - kindly to not take in literal> sense )> > with regards,> sreeram srinivas> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Thanks for info! Om Namah Shivai! SPIsree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji, The book's name is "A History of the Kerala School of Astronomy" by K.V.Sarma. Viswaswaranantha Institure, Hoshiyarpur.Love,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, Excellant! :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Surya ji,K V Sarma has published a detailed bibliography ofastrology books originated in Kerala. It was publishedby Hoshiyarpur University, Punjab. (You can get a copyof the book by writing to them) I will try to providedthe name of the book by tomorrow. You will get thelist of 'Kerala sastras' related to astrology fromthat. :-)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar,> Thanks for pulling some interesting sites, no 2,> has a very interesting discussion, which clearly> tells the story behind dating, there is a big> possibility that most of dates were fixed with or> without any actual evidence, and during that time,> no one from india could have been in a position to> guard the indian interest, given the fact that india> was under foreign rule for almost 10 centuries.> One interesting site is :> http://www.hindureligions.com/Astro/Astro_1.htm> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> Dear Surya ji and All other friends,> Here are some links that may increase your thirst> for> knowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge.> >1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html>2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> 3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html> 4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html>5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm>6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm> 7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm > > Actually there could be many such sites. Even a> small search shows me that there could be hundreds> of> sites from where you could get valuable martial,> that> could guide you in your search to find > 1) a common link between "Precession and History of> Ancient India".> 2) Similarly you could find many sites which lists> the contributions of ancient Keralaites to> mathematics> and astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the> search> of knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture.> > Best wishes in your endeavors,> Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas,> > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology,> > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near> > each other, I have already presented them.> > So, since this forum is called> > "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the> first> > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient"> > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million,> 5> > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-)> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> > may be discovered > > next?> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > ,> > surya ianala > > <suri_allam wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat> me> > like a kid :-> > )) please.> > > It is really getting beautiful, as per> > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40> > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there> are> > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only> we> > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> > extinct, > > knowledge wise.> > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame> projected> > by fossils.> > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast.> > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of> human> > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human> years.> > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human> years> > old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002> => > 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle> of> > creation- > > destruction-> > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years=> > One > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> > years, or human > > years.> > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that> the> > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory> based> > on> > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> > human> > > years!> > > If you want to learn more read the articles in> > files> > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better> not> > to> > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try> to> > > understand them as they are!> > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> > an> > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me -> > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> > contained> > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as> the> === message truncated === Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, It seems, you look at things from one angle only, and you take everything very personally, it is not a good attitude my dear! Asking a question, is a way of gaining knowledge, or to put things in proper perspective, the answer could be from the people who are open to share their knowledge, or it could be from the questionor himself. As I said before, it is normal for any person visiting to this forum or any other forum to ask a question, it is up to the people involved in the forum to answer it or not, depending on their time, and knowledge also their attitude towards society. Let me remind you, the first time I contacted you for Kerala shastras, your response was, why not ask this question in Ancient_indian _astrology? :-)) Why did you do that, is it because, you wanted to play or you wanted other members to answer it, fine I am a good sport, I like playing and I said throw?:-) now you say " foul"?:-) Akash is sky, akashvani is voice of sky, akashic records is a term used by Edger casey (a modern prophet), now one thing common in all these is sky, ok let us take your All india radio also, it is also from sky, my dear, the radio waves. so doesn't they all match, sky, sky, sky :-| What is your problem here to express it " phew", in fact you have to view:-) from all angles and cultivate a habit, listen to everybody with out being rude or attacking personally, be humble and knowledgeable:-), god will love you. Cosmic mind whether it reveals or not, it is up to the seeker to harness it, it does not depend on you or me or anybody else's opinion, and infact once you are able to reach this bookshelf, you can pick up any book you need and read :-)), it all depends on your interest and curiosty. When you say meditation, communication between cosmic mind and the true seeker, etc. etc, well, while you meditate, you do not communicate, you just reach into the silence, surpassing all senses, the whole purpose of meditating is to reach beyond senses and not to communicate using them, the basic principle of meditation is: do not create a thought,do not follow a thought, do not wait for a thought, but thought is something which is passed by the unknown from deep inside, once a person is lost in to a thought, a mantra brings him back into the process of reaching the silence, there is no communication my dear :-) and also there is no feelings involved, it is something you can not explain in terms of sensual attributes. It is travel into the eternal silence, It is a vision linking the soul with the cosmic soul, a travel into unknown, Deepak chopra has explained it better, I only experience it, normally I do not discuss it, but sometimes it is OK, to be a kid:-))) When you say it is not a book shelf, ..............then you say, there are two big books.............etc.,I am sorry it is totally out of my kid size brain. forgive me for not able to understand.:-) Again you said: do you mean we can't be objective at all, then you say, it is the subject which is important and not the persons, you say everything is not reflection, then you say, please use reflection as well, I will do the same, welcome to the kid's world. bien venu!:-) Your points are contradicting and interesting, your way of writing is sarcastic but I would suggest use sarcasm in a very subtle way, it will be well taken, instead of being direct. direct sarcasm is good when two people meet each other in person and they are friends at least acquainted, we are email acquainted. Be a true seeker! :-) Thanks for your comments, Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji, First of all everything is not a reflection. Do you mean we can't be objective at all? ok. I don't force an answer - just think of this question, that is all.> all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Is it a question answer session?! Somebody is 'demanding' answer, and others 'should' answer?!! What kind of attitude is this?! - I wonder. Is it not kid like?!!> akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvaniPhew..! Do you mean in 'akashic' (meaning, from the sky) and akash-vani (words from the sky) matches? ok. right. But I would better like to transilate the word akash used in the current context, as cosmic rather than sky. By the way 'akashvani' is a term used for 'All India Radio' in India. :-)> cosmic mind does not reveal anything!!!! I don't have anything to say.......! As far as I know, the cosmic mind reveals many things! I would like to know, what others tell about this opinion of Surya ji. The heart felt prayer of a Yogi, true Astrologer, truly spiritual person etc is -"Let the earth, water, wind, fire, sky, vacuum, education, mind, the waves and the sea ....... and what not, let this whole world be felt by me like an awakened oneness and let it all give the true knowledge to me" . Or when it happens, (normally in meditation), I won't be there but only the vibrant reality. I really don't know, these words could reach upto you or not. Yes, I am speaking of the feeling and communication that happens between the cosmic mind and the true seeker. As far I know, the cosmic mind does reveal many things.........>it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. It is not a book shelf from which some one can take the akashik records and read! There are 2 biggest books one can have - 1) The Universe (Cosmic reality - Outer world) 2) Our selves (The Mind - Inner world) They do communicate each other : 1) Through the 5 senses 2) Through some subtle ways (may be thought waves.. or who knows what ...)> Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person. Yes, you are absolutely right - but please use reflection as well, me too will do the same. Yes, it is the subject that is important and not the persons. The word person comes from the word 'persona' meaning 'mask'. Therefore normally it is better to use the word 'individual'. All the individuals in this group, like the dicussion of the subject in a respectable and friendly atmosphere I feel. Keep up the curiosity - all the best.Love and Hugs,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! Thanks! for such beautiful words, and regarding ego, it is a relative factor, if you see ego in me, it is because you are having ego problems, :-) If you see a true seeker in me, you are a true seeker yourself, if you see a good guy in me, it is because you are a good guy, everything is just a reflection only, :-), we do not like those who reflect our image. I do not know from where you are dragging all this, ego, sarcasm, lesson, all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Probable answers could be: I know it, I can attempt it, I do not know, I am sorry, I can not attempt it, I have no idea, etc. etc. but not ego, sarcasm, lesson etc etc. this is really getting beautiful, :-))))) Please akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvani, and cosmic mind does not reveal anything, it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person, I am just using your tone.ha..ha hugs..............:-) hope you will understand, do not take everything personally, take it as a point of discussion. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Surya ji,All good, but decrease the ego, and be realistic. :)These people whom you are talking to such as Sreeram,Vinita, RK etc are toiling with this subject for longand is for sure spiritually elite. :)Rather than sarcasm here people are more interestedin learning and being friendly to each other. Isthere any lesson in that? :)Now, coming to the point:Logic can not lead one to the ultimate, but logic isvery useful in systematic studies. The ultimate isbeyond logic and thoughts - and the better path inspirituality is meditation than argument, or ratherargument is not a path at all! In systematic study ofsubjects for a doctorate of the like, or to publish aresearch paper, arguments will help, and of coursethere logic leads the way.Akashik records (knowledge revealed by the cosmicmind) is something you can access without violatingthe logical limit of BC 5000 - BC 10000 period originfor Ancient Indian Astrology. 1) Meditate to know the truth about Akashik records.2) Study History to know truth about Origin ofancient Indian knowledge on astrology and ancientIndian culture.Neither exaggeration nor neglecting will show us thecorrect path as Budha says take the well balancedmiddle path. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah> Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar!> I think you answered your own questions, :-)> It is true that god only knows the truth, and the> truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to> lack of true seekers for truth is currently present> as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is> dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around> 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500> BC etc, I think the discussion in>http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> tells the story why?> Reason why, > I have put god- its creator as a starting point.> Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is> the end of the rope of the memory lane.> Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to> fill it with one stroke, right,> first we have to put available markers, history,> reach to a point maximum possible, then there are> facts, vedas were passed on to the following > generations verbally, from time immemorial, > A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link> the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology,> brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc.> One day the fossils, artefacts everything will> comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a> theory, and one day it will be taught in schools.> how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of> education in west, in india it is still a topic of> discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west> called india as a country of superstitions and snake> charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and> there are more vedic astrology research centres,> yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was> only IQ and EQ,> Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a> long time or time immemorial.> Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it> is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but> everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like> brighu,> and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the> time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact> brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is> jyotish please.:-) No.> It is true the once you reach that point in super> concious or the cosmic mind, which records every> time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic> records, we will know every truth. it is not a> fantasy for me:-)> Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the> cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you> convince people about it, it is very difficult, it> will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or> creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The> importance will catch it after certain time not> immediately, like today we take a treatise or a> scriptual text and use it without validating it. we> believe it to be true of its content.> As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have> to dig, toil.......:-)> Your last point, how it will help our personal> existence.> Why do we read history: It is an account of past> mistakes, and one should read history to avoid> already committed mistakes, well it does not> guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but> then we have to create history for our descendents.> Why do you think so much research is carried out> to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology,> etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how> things shaped up in the past, so that we can> extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind> or future of our nature.> Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one> day in big corporates there will be resident> astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a> profile of the person being recruited, so that the> managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in> exact areas of work sphere.> Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind> almost everything, I can go on and on like this for> pages, but before we reach that point, we have to> consolidate our position as an astrologer, with> correct history, its development, its application,> and for its predictive abilities. so that the future> generations who take up this science, take up with> pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice.> So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-)> Thanks> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji,> > Pranam!> > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted> to respond to a > few statements in your message:> > "discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth"> > Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The> seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on?> Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient> fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha> vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know> knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the> knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at> the truth??? > Only God knows! :)> > "Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there> is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing> Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in> contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can> only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our> existence and > existence of jyotish vidya."> > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in> all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and> therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the> Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including> persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS> PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness> within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the> memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with> brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth> but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and> not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters> for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into> pure > consciousness.> > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us> search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of> Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end> of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal> existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not> that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when> jyotish began > would help :)> > Love,> > Vinita> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only> god > knows .......",> > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in> Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and> acharya, Arjuna > === message truncated === Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! I would not like you to be with them, they all are dead, I would like you to live a long life and it is very important to have a person with your attitude for good results, particularly, in research, I always like failure first, because it opens up multiple avenues, so thanks for your comments. If possible please give me your birth details, may be I can help you:-) Thanks! Fore father! Om Namah Shivai! SPIsree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,> See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) That sounds good...! I am praised.. I would love to be with them, because one should know that his at least some of his fore fathers were really knowledgeable persons. In India we are proud of our fore fathers and as you know the whole of Vedic knowledge and astrology and many more subjects given to us by those gifted scholars - the great Rishis. We love, respect and value our fore fathers and event the stories they told. Just see Mahabharata, Ramayana or the Puranas. Either the stories had some special hidden knowledge or some lessens to taught about human behavior and worldly situations. They were really wise, and the stories really good. Actually in astrology we are trying to understand the wise stories told to us by our fore fathers. They hide most of the knowledge in stories, because they know that most there ancestors will be fools who will not value their knowledge and loss it in the way. So they encoded it metaphorically in stories so that at least someone of the posterity will understand its value and decipher it. May be you too is part of that decoding process - the rhythm continues...as always........ :)Love,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Srenadh Jee, Namaskar! There you go again!, personal attacks will not do any good to you, me or jyotish or the poor question, It is a question which needs to be addressed, not my personal attributes, if you keep your traits in check, mine will automatically vanish. All you have to do is answer a question if possible for you, or do not attempt it, it is not necessary that you have to attempt it, if you think it is a foolish question leave it, do not write all that $#$$#%$^%^. remember ego, sarcasm, and lesson your words! :-) and not mine. See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) It is your prerogative to keep the tone of the email with in respectable limits, hope you undestand. question remains? :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Surya ji,> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma.............,The above statements essentially reflect you lack ofdirect interaction with the original books. :)1) As per Skanda Hora (Arsha school of astrology)Skanda taught this knowledge to Brahma, and this firstbook of astrology, which is also known as JyothishmatiUpanishad, is written by Lord Brahma himself. Brahamataught Daksha Prajapati and the book written by him isknown as Brihath Prajapatyam. Daksha taught Saptarshis(7 sages) and they others. Thus the story given inSounaka in Sounaka hora by Rishi Sounaka goes...2) As per Garga Hora (Jain school of astrology),Brahma taught Garga Rishi, and he in tern taught allother Saptarshis (7 Sages). Those Rishis also wrotebooks to preserve this knowledge and thus knowledgespread. This is the story as per Garga Hora.3) As per Yavana Hora (Yavana school of astrology),Brahma taught Sage Yavaneswara and he in tern taughtall others. This is the story as per Yavaneswara hora.Astrology is Vedanga - beause it is used for fixingauspicious muhoortha for Yajnja. For fixing ofMuhoortha (Proper time), astronomy and ephemeris partof astrology is necessory, and the concept of Muhurtabecomes relevant only when we accept the importance ofPredictive astrology. This indicate that whole ofastrology (both mathametical and predictive parts ofastrology) is Vedanga. Both these parts of astrologyis well supported by Vedic culture, and in Vedas wecould find the existence of Astrology existing in thatperiod itself. Nirayana astrology is related toTantiric culture and the breath structure of time.21600 min in the zodiac circle and 21600 breaths makesa human day! This indicate that Nirayana system ofastrology is more related to Sindhu-Sarswaty Tantiricculture than to Vedic culture which promoted Sayanasystem of astrology.This essentially indicate that astrology could evenbe older than vedas even though it is also a Vedanga!or rather Sayana Astrology is Vedanga and Nirayanaastrology could be older than Vedas and it is part ofNon-Vedic culture.My question is from where you got Bhrigu as the firstacharya of astrology?! Why you are confusion the use'Vedanga' and guru-sishya parampara told inastrology?! These things essentially point to the factthat you neither have direct interaction with extractsfrom these books nor have a systematic method inapproaching such issues. "if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now someare saying it is around 7500 BC etc"This is what we were telling to you, and you againand again asks the same fooling question, 'how old isJyothisha?' as if we could give you the birth chartand life details of astrology itself!! :-):)But the questions is good - in the sense that itwill help us in disusing the proofs available in someof the ancient texts, which could help us in fixingthe epochs of at least some original references. But are you asking the question -1) How old is Jyothisha? OR2) Are you seeking the list of books originated inKerala?You seemed to sink in the projected ego of yourselfat times. But ok, we will try our best (even though itis not our duty, or something to which we arecommitted to) to help by providing at least somereferences to the 'list of books originated in Kerala'and 'Some passing thoughts on the history ofastrology'. As you could see, as far as the foolishquestion 'How old is Jyotisha?' is concerned, we can'thelp much. But rather you should toil, and try to getsome thing out of the box, and in due course of time,your thoughts related to it may become balanced andrealistic or hope that the akashik records related toit will become revealed to you. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar,> I agree with you that nothing should be added or> deleted from the original, but how do you know that> what you have is the original and not a developed> one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras.> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or> vedanta,> rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by> parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes> on and on.> you can not say as a practitioner, the history> part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the> science. If today we are worried that new research> will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was> true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so> which is original, the true text without any> additions.> So, I asked," how old is jyotish vidya", here I am> not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to> find out , if anyone added things like uranus and> pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to> contribute what ever information they have with> regard to history.> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > Sre_eram <sreeram64 (AT) satyam (DOT) net.in> wrote:> Sorry, to left out a question of yours> unanswered in my previous mail> Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of> earth years:-))> Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians,> only practioners > of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is> the subject is > immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is> centuries old > subject and to "put a figure" of its starting date> is beyond my > knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also.> > The groups- identity as ""> is intended to be > broad intrepretations / outline of subject> discussion strictly on > the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add> or innovate the > subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or> Neptune or Uranus > or new techniques - new dasha systems or house> division systems.....> > Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and> redefine > astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus> acts like > Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated> example of current > research topics - kindly to not take in literal> sense )> > with regards,> sreeram srinivas> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 my dear :-) ha..ha... Of course for most part of it an answer it not necessary. > When you say it is not a book shelf, ..............then you say, there are two big > books.............etc. I said it is not a book shelf, and the other two 'biggest books one can have' is not the books present in the 'akashik records book shelf' (your view). But rather they are as everybody knows 'the two biggest books one can have'. > Again you said: do you mean we can't be objective at all, then you say, it is > the subject which is important and not the persons, Can't you see that the word 'subject' used in the above sentence is not the opposite of the word objective (objective x subjective) but rather it means 'A course or area of study' (Eg: Math is her best subject). Friend context is always important in understanding the meaning of every word. > you say everything is not reflection, then you say, please use reflection as > well, As as you could see I said - 'everything' is not reflection and please use reflection 'as well'. Don't you see that the second part of the above sentence also has the meaning 'everything is not reflection' inherent in it?! > Your points are contradicting and interesting Yes, I could see that :-) See it all depends on the subject. Please don't get confused here the word subject means 'one that experiences or is subjected to something'. Yes, a word can have multiple meaning depending on the context. > it is not a good attitude my dear! > Your points are contradicting > Be a true seeker! :-) Thanks for tha advice :-) But friend, I am a normal human being and neither a individual having that good an attitude, nor a true seeker. As a simple human being I may commit errors as well. May be, it is the actions than the words that can speak better for me. Sorry for the fact that I couldn't rise up to your expectation. If at all others think that I am a seeker (devoid of 'good') it is ok. why even if they think that I am not even a seeker, that is ok. Because why should I be worried of all these things! Ok. what ever that be thanks for the advice. They (our ancestors) say that 'advice is something we give freely to everyone and would never like to take'. May be they are right. > Let me remind you, the first time I contacted you for Kerala shastras, your > response was, why not ask this question in Ancient_indian _astrology? :-)) Yes, that was a right suggestion, and I am not regretting it. I am happy that I gave such a suggestion, pearls which can trap light start shining and it is good to see. Every astrology group needs some catalysts, and it is always good to harvest from the natural circumstances. Love and Hugs, Sreenadh surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, It seems, you look at things from one angle only, and you take everything very personally, it is not a good attitude my dear! Asking a question, is a way of gaining knowledge, or to put things in proper perspective, the answer could be from the people who are open to share their knowledge, or it could be from the questionor himself. As I said before, it is normal for any person visiting to this forum or any other forum to ask a question, it is up to the people involved in the forum to answer it or not, depending on their time, and knowledge also their attitude towards society. Let me remind you, the first time I contacted you for Kerala shastras, your response was, why not ask this question in Ancient_indian _astrology? :-)) Why did you do that, is it because, you wanted to play or you wanted other members to answer it, fine I am a good sport, I like playing and I said throw?:-) now you say " foul"?:-) Akash is sky, akashvani is voice of sky, akashic records is a term used by Edger casey (a modern prophet), now one thing common in all these is sky, ok let us take your All india radio also, it is also from sky, my dear, the radio waves. so doesn't they all match, sky, sky, sky :-| What is your problem here to express it " phew", in fact you have to view:-) from all angles and cultivate a habit, listen to everybody with out being rude or attacking personally, be humble and knowledgeable:-), god will love you. Cosmic mind whether it reveals or not, it is up to the seeker to harness it, it does not depend on you or me or anybody else's opinion, and infact once you are able to reach this bookshelf, you can pick up any book you need and read :-)), it all depends on your interest and curiosty. When you say meditation, communication between cosmic mind and the true seeker, etc. etc, well, while you meditate, you do not communicate, you just reach into the silence, surpassing all senses, the whole purpose of meditating is to reach beyond senses and not to communicate using them, the basic principle of meditation is: do not create a thought,do not follow a thought, do not wait for a thought, but thought is something which is passed by the unknown from deep inside, once a person is lost in to a thought, a mantra brings him back into the process of reaching the silence, there is no communication my dear :-) and also there is no feelings involved, it is something you can not explain in terms of sensual attributes. It is travel into the eternal silence, It is a vision linking the soul with the cosmic soul, a travel into unknown, Deepak chopra has explained it better, I only experience it, normally I do not discuss it, but sometimes it is OK, to be a kid:-))) When you say it is not a book shelf, ..............then you say, there are two big books.............etc.,I am sorry it is totally out of my kid size brain. forgive me for not able to understand.:-) Again you said: do you mean we can't be objective at all, then you say, it is the subject which is important and not the persons, you say everything is not reflection, then you say, please use reflection as well, I will do the same, welcome to the kid's world. bien venu!:-) Your points are contradicting and interesting, your way of writing is sarcastic but I would suggest use sarcasm in a very subtle way, it will be well taken, instead of being direct. direct sarcasm is good when two people meet each other in person and they are friends at least acquainted, we are email acquainted. Be a true seeker! :-) Thanks for your comments, Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji, First of all everything is not a reflection. Do you mean we can't be objective at all? ok. I don't force an answer - just think of this question, that is all.> all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Is it a question answer session?! Somebody is 'demanding' answer, and others 'should' answer?!! What kind of attitude is this?! - I wonder. Is it not kid like?!!> akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvaniPhew..! Do you mean in 'akashic' (meaning, from the sky) and akash-vani (words from the sky) matches? ok. right. But I would better like to transilate the word akash used in the current context, as cosmic rather than sky. By the way 'akashvani' is a term used for 'All India Radio' in India. :-)> cosmic mind does not reveal anything!!!! I don't have anything to say.......! As far as I know, the cosmic mind reveals many things! I would like to know, what others tell about this opinion of Surya ji. The heart felt prayer of a Yogi, true Astrologer, truly spiritual person etc is -"Let the earth, water, wind, fire, sky, vacuum, education, mind, the waves and the sea ....... and what not, let this whole world be felt by me like an awakened oneness and let it all give the true knowledge to me" . Or when it happens, (normally in meditation), I won't be there but only the vibrant reality. I really don't know, these words could reach upto you or not. Yes, I am speaking of the feeling and communication that happens between the cosmic mind and the true seeker. As far I know, the cosmic mind does reveal many things.........>it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. It is not a book shelf from which some one can take the akashik records and read! There are 2 biggest books one can have - 1) The Universe (Cosmic reality - Outer world) 2) Our selves (The Mind - Inner world) They do communicate each other : 1) Through the 5 senses 2) Through some subtle ways (may be thought waves.. or who knows what ...)> Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person. Yes, you are absolutely right - but please use reflection as well, me too will do the same. Yes, it is the subject that is important and not the persons. The word person comes from the word 'persona' meaning 'mask'. Therefore normally it is better to use the word 'individual'. All the individuals in this group, like the dicussion of the subject in a respectable and friendly atmosphere I feel. Keep up the curiosity - all the best.Love and Hugs,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! Thanks! for such beautiful words, and regarding ego, it is a relative factor, if you see ego in me, it is because you are having ego problems, :-) If you see a true seeker in me, you are a true seeker yourself, if you see a good guy in me, it is because you are a good guy, everything is just a reflection only, :-), we do not like those who reflect our image. I do not know from where you are dragging all this, ego, sarcasm, lesson, all you guys have to do is answer a simple question: how old is jyotish vidya? Probable answers could be: I know it, I can attempt it, I do not know, I am sorry, I can not attempt it, I have no idea, etc. etc. but not ego, sarcasm, lesson etc etc. this is really getting beautiful, :-))))) Please akashic records is a term used by Edger casey, and it match's with akashvani, and cosmic mind does not reveal anything, it is few lucky people who are able to tap that knowledge. Tone of an email or a letter, or a post tells about a person, I am just using your tone.ha..ha hugs..............:-) hope you will understand, do not take everything personally, take it as a point of discussion. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Surya ji,All good, but decrease the ego, and be realistic. :)These people whom you are talking to such as Sreeram,Vinita, RK etc are toiling with this subject for longand is for sure spiritually elite. :)Rather than sarcasm here people are more interestedin learning and being friendly to each other. Isthere any lesson in that? :)Now, coming to the point:Logic can not lead one to the ultimate, but logic isvery useful in systematic studies. The ultimate isbeyond logic and thoughts - and the better path inspirituality is meditation than argument, or ratherargument is not a path at all! In systematic study ofsubjects for a doctorate of the like, or to publish aresearch paper, arguments will help, and of coursethere logic leads the way.Akashik records (knowledge revealed by the cosmicmind) is something you can access without violatingthe logical limit of BC 5000 - BC 10000 period originfor Ancient Indian Astrology. 1) Meditate to know the truth about Akashik records.2) Study History to know truth about Origin ofancient Indian knowledge on astrology and ancientIndian culture.Neither exaggeration nor neglecting will show us thecorrect path as Budha says take the well balancedmiddle path. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah> Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar!> I think you answered your own questions, :-)> It is true that god only knows the truth, and the> truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to> lack of true seekers for truth is currently present> as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is> dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around> 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500> BC etc, I think the discussion in>http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm> tells the story why?> Reason why, > I have put god- its creator as a starting point.> Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is> the end of the rope of the memory lane.> Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to> fill it with one stroke, right,> first we have to put available markers, history,> reach to a point maximum possible, then there are> facts, vedas were passed on to the following > generations verbally, from time immemorial, > A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link> the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology,> brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc.> One day the fossils, artefacts everything will> comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a> theory, and one day it will be taught in schools.> how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of> education in west, in india it is still a topic of> discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west> called india as a country of superstitions and snake> charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and> there are more vedic astrology research centres,> yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was> only IQ and EQ,> Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a> long time or time immemorial.> Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it> is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but> everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like> brighu,> and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the> time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact> brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is> jyotish please.:-) No.> It is true the once you reach that point in super> concious or the cosmic mind, which records every> time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic> records, we will know every truth. it is not a> fantasy for me:-)> Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the> cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you> convince people about it, it is very difficult, it> will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or> creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The> importance will catch it after certain time not> immediately, like today we take a treatise or a> scriptual text and use it without validating it. we> believe it to be true of its content.> As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have> to dig, toil.......:-)> Your last point, how it will help our personal> existence.> Why do we read history: It is an account of past> mistakes, and one should read history to avoid> already committed mistakes, well it does not> guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but> then we have to create history for our descendents.> Why do you think so much research is carried out> to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology,> etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how> things shaped up in the past, so that we can> extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind> or future of our nature.> Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one> day in big corporates there will be resident> astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a> profile of the person being recruited, so that the> managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in> exact areas of work sphere.> Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind> almost everything, I can go on and on like this for> pages, but before we reach that point, we have to> consolidate our position as an astrologer, with> correct history, its development, its application,> and for its predictive abilities. so that the future> generations who take up this science, take up with> pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice.> So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-)> Thanks> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji,> > Pranam!> > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted> to respond to a > few statements in your message:> > "discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth"> > Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The> seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on?> Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient> fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha> vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know> knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the> knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at> the truth??? > Only God knows! :)> > "Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there> is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing> Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in> contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can> only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our> existence and > existence of jyotish vidya."> > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in> all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and> therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the> Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including> persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS> PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness> within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the> memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with> brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth> but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and> not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters> for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into> pure > consciousness.> > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us> search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of> Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end> of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal> existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not> that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when> jyotish began > would help :)> > Love,> > Vinita> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only> god > knows .......",> > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to> come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in> Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and> acharya, Arjuna > === message truncated === Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Dear Surya ji, > I would not like you to be with them, they all are dead, Ha..Ha.. You and me too also will. > I would like you to live a long life and it is very important to have a person with > your attitude for good results, particularly, in research, I always like failure first, > because it opens up multiple avenues, so thanks for your comments. Wish you a very long life - Ayushman bhav! Failures opens up multiple avenues - rightly said. Hi dear, you are really into positive spirits! All the best. By the way, Thanks. > If possible please give me your birth details, may be I can help you:-) My DOB is 18-11-1971; 2.52 AM Trivandrum, Kerala. But please don't try to help me, and please avoid making coments about the horoscope. > Thanks! Fore father!> Om Namah Shivai! Ha...Ha..Sounds good. "Thanks! Fore father!" You are not calling me "Monkey" I hope. Ha.. Ha..Nama Sivaya!Love, Sreenadh surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! I would not like you to be with them, they all are dead, I would like you to live a long life and it is very important to have a person with your attitude for good results, particularly, in research, I always like failure first, because it opens up multiple avenues, so thanks for your comments. If possible please give me your birth details, may be I can help you:-) Thanks! Fore father! Om Namah Shivai! SPIsree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,> See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) That sounds good...! I am praised.. I would love to be with them, because one should know that his at least some of his fore fathers were really knowledgeable persons. In India we are proud of our fore fathers and as you know the whole of Vedic knowledge and astrology and many more subjects given to us by those gifted scholars - the great Rishis. We love, respect and value our fore fathers and event the stories they told. Just see Mahabharata, Ramayana or the Puranas. Either the stories had some special hidden knowledge or some lessens to taught about human behavior and worldly situations. They were really wise, and the stories really good. Actually in astrology we are trying to understand the wise stories told to us by our fore fathers. They hide most of the knowledge in stories, because they know that most there ancestors will be fools who will not value their knowledge and loss it in the way. So they encoded it metaphorically in stories so that at least someone of the posterity will understand its value and decipher it. May be you too is part of that decoding process - the rhythm continues...as always........ :)Love,Sreenadhsurya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote: Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Srenadh Jee, Namaskar! There you go again!, personal attacks will not do any good to you, me or jyotish or the poor question, It is a question which needs to be addressed, not my personal attributes, if you keep your traits in check, mine will automatically vanish. All you have to do is answer a question if possible for you, or do not attempt it, it is not necessary that you have to attempt it, if you think it is a foolish question leave it, do not write all that $#$$#%$^%^. remember ego, sarcasm, and lesson your words! :-) and not mine. See! now you are telling me stories like my fore fathers, :-) It is your prerogative to keep the tone of the email with in respectable limits, hope you undestand. question remains? :-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Surya ji,> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma.............,The above statements essentially reflect you lack ofdirect interaction with the original books. :)1) As per Skanda Hora (Arsha school of astrology)Skanda taught this knowledge to Brahma, and this firstbook of astrology, which is also known as JyothishmatiUpanishad, is written by Lord Brahma himself. Brahamataught Daksha Prajapati and the book written by him isknown as Brihath Prajapatyam. Daksha taught Saptarshis(7 sages) and they others. Thus the story given inSounaka in Sounaka hora by Rishi Sounaka goes...2) As per Garga Hora (Jain school of astrology),Brahma taught Garga Rishi, and he in tern taught allother Saptarshis (7 Sages). Those Rishis also wrotebooks to preserve this knowledge and thus knowledgespread. This is the story as per Garga Hora.3) As per Yavana Hora (Yavana school of astrology),Brahma taught Sage Yavaneswara and he in tern taughtall others. This is the story as per Yavaneswara hora.Astrology is Vedanga - beause it is used for fixingauspicious muhoortha for Yajnja. For fixing ofMuhoortha (Proper time), astronomy and ephemeris partof astrology is necessory, and the concept of Muhurtabecomes relevant only when we accept the importance ofPredictive astrology. This indicate that whole ofastrology (both mathametical and predictive parts ofastrology) is Vedanga. Both these parts of astrologyis well supported by Vedic culture, and in Vedas wecould find the existence of Astrology existing in thatperiod itself. Nirayana astrology is related toTantiric culture and the breath structure of time.21600 min in the zodiac circle and 21600 breaths makesa human day! This indicate that Nirayana system ofastrology is more related to Sindhu-Sarswaty Tantiricculture than to Vedic culture which promoted Sayanasystem of astrology.This essentially indicate that astrology could evenbe older than vedas even though it is also a Vedanga!or rather Sayana Astrology is Vedanga and Nirayanaastrology could be older than Vedas and it is part ofNon-Vedic culture.My question is from where you got Bhrigu as the firstacharya of astrology?! Why you are confusion the use'Vedanga' and guru-sishya parampara told inastrology?! These things essentially point to the factthat you neither have direct interaction with extractsfrom these books nor have a systematic method inapproaching such issues. "if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now someare saying it is around 7500 BC etc"This is what we were telling to you, and you againand again asks the same fooling question, 'how old isJyothisha?' as if we could give you the birth chartand life details of astrology itself!! :-):)But the questions is good - in the sense that itwill help us in disusing the proofs available in someof the ancient texts, which could help us in fixingthe epochs of at least some original references. But are you asking the question -1) How old is Jyothisha? OR2) Are you seeking the list of books originated inKerala?You seemed to sink in the projected ego of yourselfat times. But ok, we will try our best (even though itis not our duty, or something to which we arecommitted to) to help by providing at least somereferences to the 'list of books originated in Kerala'and 'Some passing thoughts on the history ofastrology'. As you could see, as far as the foolishquestion 'How old is Jyotisha?' is concerned, we can'thelp much. But rather you should toil, and try to getsome thing out of the box, and in due course of time,your thoughts related to it may become balanced andrealistic or hope that the akashik records related toit will become revealed to you. :)Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar,> I agree with you that nothing should be added or> deleted from the original, but how do you know that> what you have is the original and not a developed> one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras.> history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts> with, it is said that god delivered it to four> rishis ......................., or it is said that> brighu son of brahma, got it from> brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or> vedanta,> rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by> parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes> on and on.> you can not say as a practitioner, the history> part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the> science. If today we are worried that new research> will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was> true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so> which is original, the true text without any> additions.> So, I asked," how old is jyotish vidya", here I am> not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to> find out , if anyone added things like uranus and> pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to> contribute what ever information they have with> regard to history.> Thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > Sre_eram <sreeram64 (AT) satyam (DOT) net.in> wrote:> Sorry, to left out a question of yours> unanswered in my previous mail> Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of> earth years:-))> Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians,> only practioners > of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is> the subject is > immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is> centuries old > subject and to "put a figure" of its starting date> is beyond my > knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also.> > The groups- identity as ""> is intended to be > broad intrepretations / outline of subject> discussion strictly on > the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add> or innovate the > subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or> Neptune or Uranus > or new techniques - new dasha systems or house> division systems.....> > Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and> redefine > astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus> acts like > Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated> example of current > research topics - kindly to not take in literal> sense )> > with regards,> sreeram srinivas> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.