Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :-)) please. It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is believed that human species originated around 40 million human years i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the knowledge based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, knowledge wise. So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils. goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic in culture in india atleast. As you said let us start from the begining, 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat it till we get hold of all and then consolidate. 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. 4,56,70,00,000 human years. 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 human years are still to account for. 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- destruction- The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One creation - destruction or one cycle 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human years. 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,The Rishis were not fools and because of that theYuga system is really a mathematical theory based onthe precession of equinox and not a measure of humanyears!If you want to learn more read the articles in filessection. If we respect the Rishis it is better not tounder estimate or over estimate them. Just try tounderstand them as they are!>'How old is Jyothisha?' Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking anoutlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? ;)Both way, you are welcome. :)Tell me -Which is the first book of astrology? If it is Skanda hora at which period this textoriginated?If it is Rig veda at which period this textoriginated?If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology containedin it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the goditself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' isviolating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha iseternal, and still using the question as a tool forhis ego fullfillment!! :)If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on theoriginal text 'Skanda hora' then such a person willnot ask such a question, because he knows that it isdifficult to ascertain the period of texts withoutenough evidences. :)All these are getting very beautiful!If somebody understands Yuga system in its properway, then he won't argue based on that, because thenhe knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposedthe Yuga system!If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, thenalso he won't argue based on that, because then heknows that these huge numbers essentially escape hisunderstanding and therefore shouldn't use them asargument base!Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is thatasks questions and seeks for answers based on partialor false understanding!! But any way, how could we know that the knowledgebit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strongbefore hand?! When the doubts prevail even about thebasics, how to catch the chains that are really linkedto the original, and not give the false illusion andmake us fall?! The only way is start from theoriginals. Learning is a direct process, evidencesshould be direct as far as possible. Let it beSpirituality or History this rule remains the same!!!P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old isJyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughtsthat comes after that related to this subject. Ananswer to that qn is not expected (because an answeris not possible) but I request others to share theirbeautiful thoughts. Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee,> One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is> as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say> that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> delivered by god at the time of creation of earth.> Manu smariti Cp 1> Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> calculation: > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > Kaliyug.> 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years> 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years> 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years> Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years> Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 => 30,67,20,000 years> 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters> passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200> years of current Kaliyuga> = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8> lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this> old and so is earth.> Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17.> So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per> archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to> 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late> phase, it is true that these people were vedic in> culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's> started here, possibility is veda's could have been> revived or documented in this period, If you depend> on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are> not reaching anywhere. > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then> they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by> absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then> The present form is around 3000 years old.> Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur> yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta> yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I> think yes.> hypothesis: There could be other older> civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us> to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > final.> So how old is jyotisha! :-))> Thanks> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> Dear Surya ji,> Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how> old is Vedic culture?!> Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and> some> consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000.> Where will we put us in this controversy?!> The better suggestion would be study history and> reach your own conclusion. > * Then you will have an answer to the question, "How> old is vedas, and Vedic astrology".> But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of> ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag> 'vedic'!> * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of> astrology, may be in existence even from the period> of> Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period.> * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence> from Vedic period itself.> Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and> gave> more importance to stellar divisions whereas> Non-Vedic> astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave> more> importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern.> The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact> that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic!> As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty> civilization period was the same as or prior to> Vedic> period. So if you ask the question "How old is> ancient> Indian astrology?" then the answer could be at least> as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now "How> old> is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization?" It is your> trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > There> too a lot of controversy regarding this.> Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave namah!> > Dear Members,> > how old is vedic astrology?> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > Mail page.> > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> Mail page. The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be discovered next? Love, Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Sreenadh jee, > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :- )) please. > It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is believed that human species originated around 40 million human years i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the knowledge based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, knowledge wise. > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils. > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic in culture in india atleast. > As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat it till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 human years are still to account for. > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- destruction- > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One creation - destruction or one cycle > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human years. > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Surya ji, > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human > years! > If you want to learn more read the articles in files > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > understand them as they are! > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > Both way, you are welcome. > Tell me - > Which is the first book of astrology? > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > originated? > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > originated? > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for > his ego fullfillment!! > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > enough evidences. > All these are getting very beautiful! > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed > the Yuga system! > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > argument base! > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial > or false understanding!! > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the > basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked > to the original, and not give the false illusion and > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!! > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts > that comes after that related to this subject. An > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer > is not possible) but I request others to share their > beautiful thoughts. > Love, > Sreenadh > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth. > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > calculation: > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > Kaliyug. > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 = > > 30,67,20,000 years > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200 > > years of current Kaliyuga > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this > > old and so is earth. > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17. > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's > > started here, possibility is veda's could have been > > revived or documented in this period, If you depend > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are > > not reaching anywhere. > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then > > The present form is around 3000 years old. > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I > > think yes. > > hypothesis: There could be other older > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > final. > > So how old is jyotisha! :-)) > > Thanks > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how > > old is Vedic culture?! > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and > > some > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000. > > Where will we put us in this controversy?! > > The better suggestion would be study history and > > reach your own conclusion. > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, " How > > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology " . > > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of > > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag > > 'vedic'! > > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of > > astrology, may be in existence even from the period > > of > > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period. > > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence > > from Vedic period itself. > > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and > > gave > > more importance to stellar divisions whereas > > Non-Vedic > > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave > > more > > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern. > > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact > > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic! > > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty > > civilization period was the same as or prior to > > Vedic > > period. So if you ask the question " How old is > > ancient > > Indian astrology? " then the answer could be at least > > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now " How > > old > > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization? " It is your > > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > There > > too a lot of controversy regarding this. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > > > Om Sri gurave namah! > > > Dear Members, > > > how old is vedic astrology? > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Dear Surya ji, Discussion forums are not for learning-teaching, but for discussion. And so there is no chance of treating like a kid or master, but rather it is individuals who are the controllers of their own attitudes. There are masters here, but only friends. ==> > how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > specified based on precision etc. and the possible > time frame projected by fossils. <== 1) Time frame as specified based precision etc --> It is a mathematical model to measure time based on the rhythmic movement of the total solar system. The starting point of Aries indicate the point where all the 7 planets coincide at the beginning of the Mahayuga as per this mathematical model. (Read the Article C.hari's research. You will find it in Files section of this forum, in the folder named 'Sreenadh') It is a theory based on Astronomical evidence and mathematics. 2) Time frame as projected by fossils etc --> It represent the current understanding of human beings about the time frame of human evolution. This knowledge is not final and may get modified based on further evidence. It is a theory based on Fossil evidence and normal logic. As you may know all the theories have existence only in the human mind. The " TIME " by itself is not bound to its human understanding such as second-Minute-Hour-Year etc, or nadi-vinadi-manuantara etc of Indian system. Even if all these division does not exist (even if all thinking being like human beings does not exist) time would be there, flowing without divisions, as far movements are there. Time is essentially bound to movement. If there is no movement, then there is no importance to time. Even thought is a movement. In the eternal reference frame probably time itself is an illusion felt by fragments (read beings) trapped within specific frames. " how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils. " The first is a theory based on Astronomical evidence and mathematics. The second is a theory based on Fissile evidence and normal logic. In the current state the linking of the two is impossible because there is no common thread. If someone wants to link these two, then he should find evidences that branches and links both astronomy and fossils, or mathematics used and the normal logic. There is no alternate way. Any one can try a true research and find or invent the links. It is a possible research field. ==> > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > million human years, and jyotisha existed before > this time and humans were vedic in culture in india > atleast. <== Nop. Pre-defined assumptions distort the true research. Especially false notions set as goals can distort the research and make the whole effort a waste of time and energy. The path should be directed/determined by the new evidences and facts that come to light and become accessible and not by the pre-conceived notions. Then our intentions and ambitions will force us to discard valuable data, give undue importance to invalid data, and essentially cause us to collapse into a wrong conclusion. I think it is a big mistake in research path, which any researcher is aware of. Please don't fall pray to it. ==> > As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > rishis. <== That is not a logical beginning based on facts, but a story told to you by your for fathers. Neither do you know god, nor have any evidence concerning such a handover. Faith and science (call it research or sastra) take different paths. Faith essentially means that there is not enough evidence available. It is always better to start from the basics. But god is not the basic but the ultimate for the human thought. Points 2,3,4 : Please go and read those notes by chandrahari on Yuga system first. You will find it in the files section. Those calculations done by you are essentially wrong. Time is not yet ripe to discuss such points. Hope soon it would be. 5- Brahma vidya = Spirituality = The knowledge of the ultimate = The knowledge of the oneness. Brahman and Brahma are different. Brahman is the ultimate, the stuff with which the universes and the beyond is made up of, ruled by, exist, and nothing lies beyond. It does not have a life span. It was always and will be, unchanged, beyond discussion. That is the concept. It is not time bound. If you draw 2 axes, x and y, y being the imaginary axis, the reality exist only in one quadrant, there also only in the plane of x axis. Veda also says that the universe is only 1/4th of what really is! Brahma = The personification of creative power. This concept is a small circle with in the first. As you know Vishnu, Maheswara are 2 other major personifications. Please don't confuse, Brahman and Brhma even in conceptual discussions. ==> > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! <== Now where are we?! You in kanada and I am in Delhi. Lollzzz...... Ha..Ha.. Hugs.. There is no throwing and catching...It is no competition, but just a discussion, knowledge flying here and there... Enjoy! Thanks for all the valuable knowledge, info and understanding you shared with me. Om NamaH Sivaya Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Sreenadh jee, > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me > like a kid :-)) please. > It is really getting beautiful, as per > paleontology, it is believed that human species > originated around 40 million human years i.e. > 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the > knowledge based on fossils, which does not mean that > there are no fossils lying unearthed and also no > human species existed before that, and if a species > is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > extinct, knowledge wise. > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > specified based on precision etc. and the possible > time frame projected by fossils. > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > million human years, and jyotisha existed before > this time and humans were vedic in culture in india > atleast. > As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > rishis. skanda hora or jyotishmati created by > brahama, the first, so is manu smiriti the first. > but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > such question- this is ancient philosophy, how will > we reach the truth, we need some chain to hang on > first, then we slowly move inwards, till we reach > the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, > repeat it till we get hold of all and then > consolidate. > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > equinox is one way to calculate astrological age in > terms of human years, one sideral year is about > 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years > old, i.e. 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = > 2606146998 human years are still to account for. > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of > creation- destruction- > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth > years= One creation - destruction or one cycle > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > years, or human years. > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Surya ji, > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human > years! > If you want to learn more read the articles in files > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not > to > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > understand them as they are! > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > > Both way, you are welcome. > Tell me - > Which is the first book of astrology? > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > originated? > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > originated? > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the > god > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha > is > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for > his ego fullfillment!! > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > enough evidences. > All these are getting very beautiful! > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he > proposed > the Yuga system! > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, > then > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > argument base! > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > asks questions and seeks for answers based on > partial > or false understanding!! > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the > basics, how to catch the chains that are really > linked > to the original, and not give the false illusion and > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > originals. Learning is a direct process, > evidences > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > Spirituality or History this rule remains the > same!!! > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the > thoughts > that comes after that related to this subject. An > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer > is not possible) but I request others to share their > beautiful thoughts. > Love, > Sreenadh > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, > say > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth. > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > calculation: > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > Kaliyug. > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 = > > 30,67,20,000 years > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200 > > years of current Kaliyuga > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this > > old and so is earth. > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17. > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that > veda's > > started here, possibility is veda's could have > been > > revived or documented in this period, If you > depend > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we > are > > not reaching anywhere. > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed > by > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then > > The present form is around 3000 years old. > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, > I > > think yes. > > hypothesis: There could be other older > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for > us > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > final. > > So how old is jyotisha! :-)) > > Thanks > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how > > old is Vedic culture?! > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and > > some > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000. > > Where will we put us in this controversy?! > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Hai vinita ji, It is many days I have seen one of your mails! It is a pleasant surprise! I know that, you will say the same about me as well. Dear Vinita ji, Your question is absolutely right. But I don't think I am the proper person to answer that question. Actually I don't know. My approach is to take it simply as just a question, a question put forward by surya ji. A question that can be used as a tool to share knowledge and invoke other valuable ideas. What is there in a question? It is the beautiful thoughts comes along with it, and caused by it, is what is really important, I think. What is your opinion? Of course we got one more dear good friend, Surya ji. right? It is his doubt and qn and let him be worried about it, and let us play with it. If he comes up with something new and beautiful, let us also share it, let us fuel him with info bits so that he shine like sun producing light and energy in our group. Love, Sreenadh --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? > Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text > may be discovered > next? > > Love, > > Vinita > > , > surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat > me like a kid :- > )) please. > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40 > million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on > the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are > no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed > before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we > can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > extinct, > knowledge wise. > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected > by fossils. > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast. > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, > so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the > truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human > years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. > hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human > years old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 > = 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle > of creation- > destruction- > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth > years= One > creation - destruction or one cycle > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > years, or human > years. > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based > on > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > human > > years! > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > files > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not > to > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > understand them as they are! > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking > an > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the > same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me - > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > originated? > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > originated? > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology > contained > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the > god > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' > is > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha > is > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool > for > > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on > the > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person > will > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it > is > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because > then > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he > proposed > > the Yuga system! > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, > then > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape > his > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > argument base! > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on > partial > > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about > the > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really > linked > > to the original, and not give the false illusion > and > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > originals. Learning is a direct process, > evidences > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the > same!!! > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the > thoughts > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an > answer > > is not possible) but I request others to share > their > > beautiful thoughts. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup > is > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, > say > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of > earth. > > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > > calculation: > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, > & > > > Kaliyug. > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Okay, okay, folks, it is very, very old. Say, a trillion years. I thought, I could step in to sharpen the rough-hewn statements of two points. One: Brahma as different from Brahman -- which Sree has rightly points out -- stands for 'cosmic in scale' as in 'Brahmaanda' Two: ....the universe is only 1/4th of what really is! Quite it. But a small exegetical expansion will be helpful in better appreciating what Sree is driving at. Thus: We see (perceive) only 1/4th of what IS. Only 1/4th of the universe is MANIFEST (Vyakta), 3/4ths Klupta. Cheerio, RK , sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > > Hai vinita ji, > It is many days I have seen one of your mails! It is > a pleasant surprise! I know that, you will say the > same about me as well. > Dear Vinita ji, Your question is absolutely right. > But I don't think I am the proper person to answer > that question. Actually I don't know. > My approach is to take it simply as just a question, > a question put forward by surya ji. A question that > can be used as a tool to share knowledge and invoke > other valuable ideas. What is there in a question? It > is the beautiful thoughts comes along with it, and > caused by it, is what is really important, I think. > What is your opinion? > Of course we got one more dear good friend, Surya ji. > right? > It is his doubt and qn and let him be worried about > it, and let us play with it. If he comes up with > something new and beautiful, let us also share it, let > us fuel him with info bits so that he shine like sun > producing light and energy in our group. > Love, > Sreenadh > > --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? > > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text > > may be discovered > > next? > > > > Love, > > > > Vinita > > > > , > > surya ianala > > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat > > me like a kid :- > > )) please. > > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40 > > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on > > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are > > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed > > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we > > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > > extinct, > > knowledge wise. > > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected > > by fossils. > > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast. > > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, > > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the > > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human > > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. > > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human > > years old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 > > = 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle > > of creation- > > destruction- > > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth > > years= One > > creation - destruction or one cycle > > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > > years, or human > > years. > > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based > > on > > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > > human > > > years! > > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > > files > > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not > > to > > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > > understand them as they are! > > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking > > an > > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the > > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me - > > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology > > contained > > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the > > god > > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' > > is > > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha > > is > > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool > > for > > > his ego fullfillment!! > > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on > > the > > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person > > will > > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it > > is > > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > > enough evidences. > > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because > > then > > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he > > proposed > > > the Yuga system! > > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, > > then > > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape > > his > > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > > argument base! > > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on > > partial > > > or false understanding!! > > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about > > the > > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really > > linked > > > to the original, and not give the false illusion > > and > > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > > originals. Learning is a direct process, > > evidences > > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the > > same!!! > > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the > > thoughts > > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an > > answer > > > is not possible) but I request others to share > > their > > > beautiful thoughts. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup > > is > > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, > > say > > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of > > earth. > > > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > > > calculation: > > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, > > & > > > > Kaliyug. > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear vinita jee, namaskar! For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near each other, I have already presented them. So, since this forum is called "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the first question that comes to your mind is " how ancient" or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 billion etc. it is just a discussion.:-) Om Namah Shivai! SPI vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be discovered next?Love,Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:>> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee, > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :-)) please.> It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is believed that human species originated around 40 million human years i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the knowledge based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, knowledge wise.> So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils.> goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic in culture in india atleast.> As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat it till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 human years are still to account for. > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- destruction-> The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One creation - destruction or one cycle> 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human years.> 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> Dear Surya ji,> The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on> the precession of equinox and not a measure of human> years!> If you want to learn more read the articles in files> section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to> under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> understand them as they are!> >'How old is Jyothisha?' > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an> outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > Both way, you are welcome. > Tell me -> Which is the first book of astrology? > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> originated?> If it is Rig veda at which period this text> originated?> If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained> in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god> itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is> violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is> eternal, and still using the question as a tool for> his ego fullfillment!! > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the> original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will> not ask such a question, because he knows that it is> difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> enough evidences. > All these are getting very beautiful!> > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> way, then he won't argue based on that, because then> he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed> the Yuga system!> If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then> also he won't argue based on that, because then he> knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his> understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> argument base!> Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial> or false understanding!! > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the> basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked> to the original, and not give the false illusion and> make us fall?! The only way is start from the> originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences> should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!!> P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts> that comes after that related to this subject. An> answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer> is not possible) but I request others to share their> beautiful thoughts. > Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Sreenadh jee,> > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is> > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say> > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth.> > Manu smariti Cp 1> > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> > calculation: > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > Kaliyug.> > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years> > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years> > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years> > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years> > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 => > 30,67,20,000 years> > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters> > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200> > years of current Kaliyuga> > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8> > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this> > old and so is earth.> > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17.> > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per> > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to> > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late> > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in> > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's> > started here, possibility is veda's could have been> > revived or documented in this period, If you depend> > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are> > not reaching anywhere. > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then> > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by> > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then> > The present form is around 3000 years old.> > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur> > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta> > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I> > think yes.> > hypothesis: There could be other older> > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us> > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > final.> > So how old is jyotisha! :-))> > Thanks> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > Dear Surya ji,> > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how> > old is Vedic culture?!> > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and> > some> > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000.> > Where will we put us in this controversy?!> > The better suggestion would be study history and> > reach your own conclusion. > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, "How> > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology".> > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of> > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag> > 'vedic'!> > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of> > astrology, may be in existence even from the period> > of> > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period.> > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence> > from Vedic period itself.> > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and> > gave> > more importance to stellar divisions whereas> > Non-Vedic> > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave> > more> > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern.> > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact> > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic!> > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty> > civilization period was the same as or prior to> > Vedic> > period. So if you ask the question "How old is> > ancient> > Indian astrology?" then the answer could be at least> > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now "How> > old> > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization?" It is your> > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > There> > too a lot of controversy regarding this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:> > > > > Om Sri gurave namah!> > > Dear Members,> > > how old is vedic astrology?> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > > Mail page.> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > Mail page.> > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail.> Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada Messenger with Voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear RK jee, Thanks for jumping in, let us discuss, Brahma and Brahman, 1/4 is vyakta, 3/4 is klupta, please elaborate. thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPIarkaydash <arkaydash wrote: Okay, okay, folks, it is very, very old. Say, a trillion years.I thought, I could step in to sharpen the rough-hewn statements of two points. One:Brahma as different from Brahman -- which Sree has rightly points out -- stands for 'cosmic in scale' as in 'Brahmaanda'Two:...the universe isonly 1/4th of what really is!Quite it. But a small exegetical expansion will be helpful in better appreciating what Sree is driving at.Thus: We see (perceive) only 1/4th of what IS. Only 1/4th of the universe is MANIFEST (Vyakta), 3/4ths Klupta.Cheerio,RK , sree nadh <sreesog wrote:>> > Hai vinita ji,> It is many days I have seen one of your mails! It is> a pleasant surprise! I know that, you will say the> same about me as well. > Dear Vinita ji, Your question is absolutely right.> But I don't think I am the proper person to answer> that question. Actually I don't know. > My approach is to take it simply as just a question,> a question put forward by surya ji. A question that> can be used as a tool to share knowledge and invoke> other valuable ideas. What is there in a question? It> is the beautiful thoughts comes along with it, and> caused by it, is what is really important, I think. > What is your opinion?> Of course we got one more dear good friend, Surya ji.> right? > It is his doubt and qn and let him be worried about> it, and let us play with it. If he comes up with> something new and beautiful, let us also share it, let> us fuel him with info bits so that he shine like sun> producing light and energy in our group. > Love,> Sreenadh> > --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:> > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> > may be discovered > > next?> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > ,> > surya ianala > > <suri_allam@> wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat> > me like a kid :-> > )) please.> > > It is really getting beautiful, as per> > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40> > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are> > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we> > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> > extinct, > > knowledge wise.> > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected> > by fossils.> > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast.> > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human> > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years.> > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human> > years old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002> > = 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle> > of creation- > > destruction-> > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth> > years= One > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> > years, or human > > years.> > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based> > on> > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> > human> > > years!> > > If you want to learn more read the articles in> > files> > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not> > to> > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> > > understand them as they are!> > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> > an> > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me -> > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> > contained> > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the> > god> > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha'> > is> > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha> > is> > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool> > for> > > his ego fullfillment!! > > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on> > the> > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person> > will> > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it> > is> > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> > > enough evidences. > > > All these are getting very beautiful!> > > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because> > then> > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he> > proposed> > > the Yuga system!> > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system,> > then> > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he> > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape> > his> > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> > > argument base!> > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on> > partial> > > or false understanding!! > > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about> > the> > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really> > linked> > > to the original, and not give the false illusion> > and> > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the> > > originals. Learning is a direct process,> > evidences> > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the> > same!!!> > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the> > thoughts> > > that comes after that related to this subject. An> > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an> > answer> > > is not possible) but I request others to share> > their> > > beautiful thoughts. > > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > > Dear Sreenadh jee,> > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup> > is> > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617,> > say> > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of> > earth.> > > > Manu smariti Cp 1> > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> > > > calculation: > > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur,> > & > > > > Kaliyug.> > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > > Do You ?Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Dear Suryaji, Pranam! This is also just for discussion's sake. History of astrology....how old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind it is not strictly correct....because man may not have known astrology when he first evolved or was created on this earth....but the rythms of time and the cycles it creates existed from the time of CREATION itself. But when did knowledge about TIME first come into being? There are mythical stories about time and its power on physical existence. There are also mythical stories about moving back and forth in time to understand the nature of Maya. For instance there is the story of sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time of his son Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse him.Kala took a physical form and explained, " I have not been burnt up by the conflagrations even during the times of deluge. Are you going to harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds have been gulped by me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been swallowed up. We are the devourers and others are eatable....Without understanding the course of events caused by one's own karma how like an ignorant person do you desire to curse me?... There is neither doer nor enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth. " Sage Bhrigu at the end of a long dialogue with Kala had to concede, " O divine lord, Ruler of the past and the present universe we are indeed adoloscents with imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like thee have perfect vision of the past, present and future " . So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect knowledge about time can we seek to know the history of time???;)....or history of knowledge of time??? As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. Only God knows when knowledge of astrology first came into being on this very tiny planet called the earth.... Love, Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear vinita jee, namaskar! > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near each other, I have already presented them. > So, since this forum is called " Ancient_indian_astrology " , dont you think the first question that comes to your mind is " how ancient " or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-) > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be discovered > next? > > Love, > > Vinita > > , surya ianala > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :- > )) please. > > It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40 million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, > knowledge wise. > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils. > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast. > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- > destruction- > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One > creation - destruction or one cycle > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human > years. > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human > > years! > > If you want to learn more read the articles in files > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > understand them as they are! > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me - > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > originated? > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > originated? > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for > > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed > > the Yuga system! > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > argument base! > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial > > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked > > to the original, and not give the false illusion and > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!! > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer > > is not possible) but I request others to share their > > beautiful thoughts. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth. > > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > > calculation: > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > > Kaliyug. > > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years > > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years > > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years > > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years > > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 = > > > 30,67,20,000 years > > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters > > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200 > > > years of current Kaliyuga > > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 > > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this > > > old and so is earth. > > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17. > > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per > > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to > > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late > > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in > > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's > > > started here, possibility is veda's could have been > > > revived or documented in this period, If you depend > > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are > > > not reaching anywhere. > > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then > > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by > > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then > > > The present form is around 3000 years old. > > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur > > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta > > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I > > > think yes. > > > hypothesis: There could be other older > > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us > > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > > final. > > > So how old is jyotisha! :-)) > > > Thanks > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how > > > old is Vedic culture?! > > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and > > > some > > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000. > > > Where will we put us in this controversy?! > > > The better suggestion would be study history and > > > reach your own conclusion. > > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, " How > > > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology " . > > > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of > > > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag > > > 'vedic'! > > > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of > > > astrology, may be in existence even from the period > > > of > > > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period. > > > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence > > > from Vedic period itself. > > > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and > > > gave > > > more importance to stellar divisions whereas > > > Non-Vedic > > > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave > > > more > > > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern. > > > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact > > > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic! > > > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty > > > civilization period was the same as or prior to > > > Vedic > > > period. So if you ask the question " How old is > > > ancient > > > Indian astrology? " then the answer could be at least > > > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now " How > > > old > > > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization? " It is your > > > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > > There > > > too a lot of controversy regarding this. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave namah! > > > > Dear Members, > > > > how old is vedic astrology? > > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > > SPI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All- new > Mail. > > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada Messenger with Voice > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Dear Friend, First of all be sincere and say, Are you a real sincere student of history? Or of the manuantara maths and calculating the origin of everything from the god theorist? First of all know that to systematically study any thing, one should select a small frame of time. Historians are not fools and so they don't start everything from god. They know of there pre-set borders in every study. Are you a historian? From the above basics, you can't be! The question is - 1) Are you interested in getting a list of astrology books originated in Kerala? OR 2) Are you interested in Astrology? OR 3) Are you interested in History? OR 4) Are you interested in Riligion and spirituality? OR 5) Are you just interested in questioning? Just sincerely real the purpose of this sequence? What do you want? Really I fail to understand! Please elaborate. P.s.: Of course this forum is called 'Ancient_Indian_astrology'. But I don't think it is a history forum. But rather it is an astrology forum. But of course genuine discussion can branch to any subjects including history - but yes, it should be genuine and sincere. Then only the somebody may take pains to answer those questions. Otherwise why should he/she?! No one gives any guaranty to anybody that, somebody is sitting in this forum with answers to all the questionnaires somebody else brings along with!! Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear vinita jee, namaskar! > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near > each other, I have already presented them. > So, since this forum is called > " Ancient_indian_astrology " , dont you think the first > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient " > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 > billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-) > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? > Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text > may be discovered > next? > > Love, > > Vinita > > , > surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me > like a kid :- > )) please. > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40 > million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on > the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are > no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed > before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we > can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > extinct, > knowledge wise. > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected > by fossils. > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast. > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, > so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the > truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human > years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. > hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years > old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = > 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of > creation- > destruction- > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= > One > creation - destruction or one cycle > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > years, or human > years. > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based > on > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > human > > years! > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > files > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not > to > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > understand them as they are! > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking > an > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the > same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me - > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > originated? > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > originated? > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology > contained > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the > god > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' > is > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha > is > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool > for > > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on > the > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person > will > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it > is > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because > then > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he > proposed > > the Yuga system! > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, > then > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape > his > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > argument base! > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on > partial > > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about > the > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really > linked > > to the original, and not give the false illusion > and > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > originals. Learning is a direct process, > evidences > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the > same!!! > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the > thoughts > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an > answer > > is not possible) but I request others to share > their > > beautiful thoughts. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Dear Surya ji, Again! please don't confuse! Brahaman = The whole. 1/4 = Vyakta = Real or visible. 3/4 = Klupta = Hidden or imaginary. [it is a conceptual finding presented by the Vedic Rishi, which is in tune with the modern maths and science] Braha: No one is speaking here about the 1/4 or 3/4 or Brahma, nor mean that 1/4 of Brhman is Brahma! You words gave me the feeling that you got it wrong. If not, please parden me. I think RK ji can shed more light on the same. Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear RK jee, > Thanks for jumping in, let us discuss, > Brahma and Brahman, 1/4 is vyakta, 3/4 is klupta, > please elaborate. > thanks! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > arkaydash <arkaydash wrote: > > Okay, okay, folks, it is very, very old. Say, a > trillion years. > > I thought, I could step in to sharpen the rough-hewn > statements of > two points. > > One: > Brahma as different from Brahman -- which Sree has > rightly points > out -- stands for 'cosmic in scale' as in > 'Brahmaanda' > > Two: > ...the universe is > only 1/4th of what really is! > > Quite it. But a small exegetical expansion will be > helpful in better > appreciating what Sree is driving at. > > Thus: We see (perceive) only 1/4th of what IS. Only > 1/4th of the > universe is MANIFEST (Vyakta), 3/4ths Klupta. > > Cheerio, > RK > > , > sree nadh > <sreesog wrote: > > > > > > Hai vinita ji, > > It is many days I have seen one of your mails! It > is > > a pleasant surprise! I know that, you will say > the > > same about me as well. > > Dear Vinita ji, Your question is absolutely right. > > But I don't think I am the proper person to > answer > > that question. Actually I don't know. > > My approach is to take it simply as just a > question, > > a question put forward by surya ji. A question > that > > can be used as a tool to share knowledge and > invoke > > other valuable ideas. What is there in a question? > It > > is the beautiful thoughts comes along with it, and > > caused by it, is what is really important, I > think. > > What is your opinion? > > Of course we got one more dear good friend, Surya > ji. > > right? > > It is his doubt and qn and let him be worried > about > > it, and let us play with it. If he comes up with > > something new and beautiful, let us also share it, > let > > us fuel him with info bits so that he shine like > sun > > producing light and energy in our group. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > > > > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > > > > > Why is it important to know how old is > astrology? > > > Specially since > > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / > text > > > may be discovered > > > next? > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Vinita > > > > > > , > > > surya ianala > > > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat > > > me like a kid :- > > > )) please. > > > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > > > paleontology, it is > > > believed that human species originated around 40 > > > million human years > > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based > on > > > the the knowledge > > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there > are > > > no fossils > > > lying unearthed and also no human species > existed > > > before that, and > > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only > we > > > can get some > > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it > becomes > > > extinct, > > > knowledge wise. > > > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > > > specified based on > > > precision etc. and the possible time frame > projected > > > by fossils. > > > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > > > million human > > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > > > humans were vedic > > > in culture in india atleast. > > > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > > > rishis. skanda > > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the > first, > > > so is manu > > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > > > simply saying, it is > > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such > an > > > such question- > > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach > the > > > truth, we need > > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > > > inwards, till we > > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > > > another one, repeat it > > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision > of > > > equinox is one > > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of > human > > > years, one > > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human > years. > > > hence rishis > > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human > years. > > > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human > > > years old, i.e. > > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - > 1960853002 > > > = 2606146998 > > > human years are still to account for. > > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one > cycle > > > of creation- > > > destruction- > > > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth > > > years= One > > > creation - destruction or one cycle > > > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > > > years, or human > > > years. > > > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? > :-))) > > > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting > beautiful!!! > > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > > SPI > > > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that > the > > > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory > based > > > on > > > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > > > human > > > > years! > > > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > > > files > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Dear Surya ji and All other friends, Here are some links that may increase your thirst for knowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge. 1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html 2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm 3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html 4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html 5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm 6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm 7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm Actually there could be many such sites. Even a small search shows me that there could be hundreds of sites from where you could get valuable martial, that could guide you in your search to find 1) a common link between " Precession and History of Ancient India " . 2) Similarly you could find many sites which lists the contributions of ancient Keralaites to mathematics and astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the search of knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture. Best wishes in your endeavors, Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear vinita jee, namaskar! > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near > each other, I have already presented them. > So, since this forum is called > " Ancient_indian_astrology " , dont you think the first > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient " > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 > billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-) > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? > Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text > may be discovered > next? > > Love, > > Vinita > > , > surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me > like a kid :- > )) please. > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40 > million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on > the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are > no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed > before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we > can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > extinct, > knowledge wise. > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected > by fossils. > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast. > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, > so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the > truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human > years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. > hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years > old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = > 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of > creation- > destruction- > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= > One > creation - destruction or one cycle > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > years, or human > years. > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Surya ji, > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based > on > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > human > > years! > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > files > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not > to > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > understand them as they are! > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking > an > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the > same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me - > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > originated? > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > originated? > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology > contained > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the > god > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' > is > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha > is > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool > for > > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on > the > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person > will > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it > is > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because > then > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he > proposed > > the Yuga system! > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, > then > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape > his > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > argument base! > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on > partial > > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about > the > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really > linked > > to the original, and not give the false illusion > and > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > originals. Learning is a direct process, > evidences > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the > same!!! > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the > thoughts > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an > answer > > is not possible) but I request others to share > their > > beautiful thoughts. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Vinita jee, pranam, Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only god knows .......", Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to come to the truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in Bhagwat Geeta there is great discussion/argument between disciple and acharya, Arjuna and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup. So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge came from god, and so did jyotish vidya. Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there is some form of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the feet, otherwise, all these discoveries etc would not have been there. So, here we are not cursing Kala or even behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down the memory lane with regards to our existence and existence of jyotish vidya. Thanks for the comments!:-) So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or human years? Om Namah Shivai! SPI vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: Dear Suryaji,Pranam!This is also just for discussion's sake. History of astrology....how old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind it is not strictly correct....because man may not have known astrology when he first evolved or was created on this earth....but the rythms of time and the cycles it creates existed from the time of CREATION itself. But when did knowledge about TIME first come into being? There are mythical stories about time and its power on physical existence. There are also mythical stories about moving back and forth in time to understand the nature of Maya. For instance there is the story of sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time of his son Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse him.Kala took a physical form and explained, "I have not been burnt up by the conflagrations even during the times of deluge. Are you going to harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds have been gulped by me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been swallowed up. We are the devourers and others are eatable....Without understanding the course of events caused by one's own karma how like an ignorant person do you desire to curse me?... There is neither doer nor enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth." Sage Bhrigu at the end of a long dialogue with Kala had to concede, "O divine lord, Ruler of the past and the present universe we are indeed adoloscents with imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like thee have perfect vision of the past, present and future".So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect knowledge about time can we seek to know the history of time???;)....or history of knowledge of time???As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. Only God knows when knowledge of astrology first came into being on this very tiny planet called the earth....Love, Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:>> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near each other, I have already presented them.> So, since this forum is called "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the first question that comes to your mind is " how ancient" or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-)> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:> Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be discovered > next?> > Love,> > Vinita> > , surya ianala > <suri_allam@> wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :-> )) please.> > It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40 million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, > knowledge wise.> > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils.> > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast.> > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- > destruction-> > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One > creation - destruction or one cycle> > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human > years.> > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > Dear Surya ji,> > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on> > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human> > years!> > If you want to learn more read the articles in files> > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to> > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> > understand them as they are!> > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an> > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me -> > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > originated?> > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > originated?> > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained> > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god> > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is> > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is> > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for> > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the> > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will> > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is> > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful!> > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then> > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed> > the Yuga system!> > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then> > also he won't argue based on that, because then he> > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his> > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> > argument base!> > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> > asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial> > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the> > basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked> > to the original, and not give the false illusion and> > make us fall?! The only way is start from the> > originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences> > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> > Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!!> > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts> > that comes after that related to this subject. An> > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer> > is not possible) but I request others to share their> > beautiful thoughts. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee,> > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is> > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say> > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth.> > > Manu smariti Cp 1> > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> > > calculation: > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > > Kaliyug.> > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years> > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years> > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years> > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years> > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 => > > 30,67,20,000 years> > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters> > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200> > > years of current Kaliyuga> > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8> > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this> > > old and so is earth.> > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17.> > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per> > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to> > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late> > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in> > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's> > > started here, possibility is veda's could have been> > > revived or documented in this period, If you depend> > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are> > > not reaching anywhere. > > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then> > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by> > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then> > > The present form is around 3000 years old.> > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur> > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta> > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I> > > think yes.> > > hypothesis: There could be other older> > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us> > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > > final.> > > So how old is jyotisha! :-))> > > Thanks> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how> > > old is Vedic culture?!> > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and> > > some> > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000.> > > Where will we put us in this controversy?!> > > The better suggestion would be study history and> > > reach your own conclusion. > > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, "How> > > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology".> > > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of> > > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag> > > 'vedic'!> > > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of> > > astrology, may be in existence even from the period> > > of> > > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period.> > > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence> > > from Vedic period itself.> > > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and> > > gave> > > more importance to stellar divisions whereas> > > Non-Vedic> > > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave> > > more> > > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern.> > > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact> > > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic!> > > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty> > > civilization period was the same as or prior to> > > Vedic> > > period. So if you ask the question "How old is> > > ancient> > > Indian astrology?" then the answer could be at least> > > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now "How> > > old> > > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization?" It is your> > > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > > There> > > too a lot of controversy regarding this.> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > > > > > Om Sri gurave namah!> > > > Dear Members,> > > > how old is vedic astrology?> > > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > > SPI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > > > Mail page.> > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > > Mail page.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new > Mail.> >> > > > > > > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada Messenger with Voice> The best gets better. 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Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar, how does it matter if I am a historian, astrologer, religious or spiritual person,question is simple, how old is jyotish vidya in terms of earth years. but in fact I am interested in all, listed by you, mostly in kerala shastras and astrology, see if you can give me the list of all astro documents originated in kerala, I would really appreciate that, :-))))) Why? is a very difficult question, but here I am asking "how", so insead of worrying about the questioner, we should worry about answering the question, in what ever way, though I like your way.:-)) Lord krishna did not ask arjuna, oh please stop it, who are you, historian, astrologer, warrior, etc. etc., he just answered each and every question. Do not imagine that I am arjuna,I can not hold the bow and arrow, leave alone, hitting bullseye ;-) . So the question is " how old is jyotish vidya in terms of earth years:-)) thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPIsree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Friend,First of all be sincere and say, Are you a real sincere student of history? Or of themanuantara maths and calculating the origin ofeverything from the god theorist? :)First of all know that to systematically study anything, one should select a small frame of time.Historians are not fools and so they don't starteverything from god. They know of there pre-setborders in every study. Are you a historian? From the above basics, youcan't be! The question is -1) Are you interested in getting a list of astrologybooks originated in Kerala? OR2) Are you interested in Astrology? OR3) Are you interested in History? OR4) Are you interested in Riligion and spirituality?OR5) Are you just interested in questioning?Just sincerely real the purpose of this sequence?What do you want? Really I fail to understand!Please elaborate.P.s.: Of course this forum is called'Ancient_Indian_astrology'. But I don't think it is ahistory forum. But rather it is an astrology forum.But of course genuine discussion can branch to anysubjects including history - but yes, it should begenuine and sincere. Then only the somebody may takepains to answer those questions. Otherwise why shouldhe/she?! No one gives any guaranty to anybody that,somebody is sitting in this forum with answers to allthe questionnaires somebody else brings along with!!Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> given that, we have so many pointers, vedas,> precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology,> sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near> each other, I have already presented them.> So, since this forum is called> "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the first> question that comes to your mind is " how ancient"> or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5> billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-)> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> may be discovered > next?> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me> like a kid :-> )) please.> > It is really getting beautiful, as per> paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40> million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are> no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we> can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> extinct, > knowledge wise.> > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected> by fossils.> > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast.> > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human> years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years.> hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years> old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 => 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of> creation- > destruction-> > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years=> One > creation - destruction or one cycle> > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> years, or human > years.> > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > Dear Surya ji,> > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based> on> > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> human> > years!> > If you want to learn more read the articles in> files> > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not> to> > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> > understand them as they are!> > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> an> > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me -> > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > originated?> > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > originated?> > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> contained> > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the> god> > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha'> is> > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha> is> > eternal, and still using the question as a tool> for> > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on> the> > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person> will> > not ask such a question, because he knows that it> is> > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful!> > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> > way, then he won't argue based on that, because> then> > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he> proposed> > the Yuga system!> > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system,> then> > also he won't argue based on that, because then he> > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape> his> > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> > argument base!> > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> > asks questions and seeks for answers based on> partial> > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about> the> > basics, how to catch the chains that are really> linked> > to the original, and not give the false illusion> and> > make us fall?! The only way is start from the> > originals. Learning is a direct process,> evidences> > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> > Spirituality or History this rule remains the> same!!!> > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the> thoughts> > that comes after that related to this subject. An> > answer to that qn is not expected (because an> answer> > is not possible) but I request others to share> their> > beautiful thoughts. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:> > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee,> === message truncated === All new Mail - Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar, There is no confusion, see a comma, "," after brahman, then 1/4 vyakta, and 3/4 klupta. and when you say braha, you mean James braha who defined god in terms of physics or is it a typo. so brahma? Brahman? 1/4 vyakta? 3/4 klupta? OK, now!, I thought, email is an informal media! Om Namah Shivai! SPIsree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,Again! please don't confuse! Brahaman = The whole.1/4 = Vyakta = Real or visible.3/4 = Klupta = Hidden or imaginary.[it is a conceptual finding presented by the VedicRishi, which is in tune with the modern maths andscience]Braha: No one is speaking here about the 1/4 or 3/4or Brahma, nor mean that 1/4 of Brhman is Brahma! Youwords gave me the feeling that you got it wrong. Ifnot, please parden me. I think RK ji can shed more light on the same. Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear RK jee,> Thanks for jumping in, let us discuss,> Brahma and Brahman, 1/4 is vyakta, 3/4 is klupta,> please elaborate.> thanks!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > arkaydash <arkaydash (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > Okay, okay, folks, it is very, very old. Say, a> trillion years.> > I thought, I could step in to sharpen the rough-hewn> statements of > two points. > > One:> Brahma as different from Brahman -- which Sree has> rightly points > out -- stands for 'cosmic in scale' as in> 'Brahmaanda'> > Two:> ...the universe is> only 1/4th of what really is!> > Quite it. But a small exegetical expansion will be> helpful in better > appreciating what Sree is driving at.> > Thus: We see (perceive) only 1/4th of what IS. Only> 1/4th of the > universe is MANIFEST (Vyakta), 3/4ths Klupta.> > Cheerio,> RK> > ,> sree nadh > <sreesog wrote:> >> > > > Hai vinita ji,> > It is many days I have seen one of your mails! It> is> > a pleasant surprise! I know that, you will say> the> > same about me as well. > > Dear Vinita ji, Your question is absolutely right.> > But I don't think I am the proper person to> answer> > that question. Actually I don't know. > > My approach is to take it simply as just a> question,> > a question put forward by surya ji. A question> that> > can be used as a tool to share knowledge and> invoke> > other valuable ideas. What is there in a question?> It> > is the beautiful thoughts comes along with it, and> > caused by it, is what is really important, I> think. > > What is your opinion?> > Of course we got one more dear good friend, Surya> ji.> > right? > > It is his doubt and qn and let him be worried> about> > it, and let us play with it. If he comes up with> > something new and beautiful, let us also share it,> let> > us fuel him with info bits so that he shine like> sun> > producing light and energy in our group. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:> > > > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > > > Why is it important to know how old is> astrology?> > > Specially since > > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil /> text> > > may be discovered > > > next?> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Vinita> > > > > > ,> > > surya ianala > > > <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat> > > me like a kid :-> > > )) please.> > > > It is really getting beautiful, as per> > > paleontology, it is > > > believed that human species originated around 40> > > million human years > > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based> on> > > the the knowledge > > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there> are> > > no fossils > > > lying unearthed and also no human species> existed> > > before that, and > > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only> we> > > can get some > > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it> becomes> > > extinct, > > > knowledge wise.> > > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> > > specified based on > > > precision etc. and the possible time frame> projected> > > by fossils.> > > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> > > million human > > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> > > humans were vedic > > > in culture in india atleast.> > > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> > > rishis. skanda > > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the> first,> > > so is manu > > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> > > simply saying, it is > > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such> an> > > such question- > > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach> the> > > truth, we need > > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> > > inwards, till we > > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> > > another one, repeat it > > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision> of> > > equinox is one > > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of> human> > > years, one > > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human> years.> > > hence rishis > > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human> years.> > > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human> > > years old, i.e. > > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 -> 1960853002> > > = 2606146998 > > > human years are still to account for. > > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one> cycle> > > of creation- > > > destruction-> > > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth> > > years= One > > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> > > years, or human > > > years.> > > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha?> :-)))> > > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting> beautiful!!!> > > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > > SPI> > > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > Dear Surya ji,> > > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that> the> > > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory> based> > > on> > > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> > > human> > > > years!> > > > If you want to learn more read the articles in> > > files> === message truncated === Be smarter than spam. 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Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, Namaskar! So, it is a discussion forum, where people share and also learn, it does not matter if one is a kid or a master, right.:-) Time frame as specified by Precision of equinox and based on fossils- agreed- You said it is impossible to link these two. time is a relative thought, if, not related to any division, or a point in space, it is irrelevent, time and space are two relative points, like coordinates. e.g I am a point of existence, to mark it I am using a label, sep30, 2006, and a space point, montreal, this point has a significance relative to my existence, time becomes a reality with the space I am occupying at this moment. so precision of equinox is a imaginary point in space at a particular point of time which can be labelled, and depending on its movement, time can be calculated relative to its movement, but at some point it will coincide, due to one full circle. if it does not coincide, then another calculation begins. So, the thread between, these two is a linear scale of time. which again can be labelled. I did not get it when you say " NOP", for a goal, it is a goal to reach with some backing, without a goal there is no research, for carrying out a research, the first and foremost requirement is a goal, e.g. To reach moon, to reach mars, to discover aliens, to fly, to swim like fish, to cure cancer, to reach north pole etc. etc. So, goal is: To prove that vedic jyotish-humans existed before 40 million years ........etc. As we move forward in a research, it is not necessary that we follow only one lead, we might me distracted, we might face failures, might face discouraging thoughts, but the goal remains, during which we might stumble on something interesting. Eureka! a new Einstein is born :-) To begin with, we need the loose end, either it could be the begining or the end. as long as it serves the purpose, it is fine. So here, we have scriptual evidence that Vedas are delivered by gods directly to four rishis, so it is the begining, and end of this rope is a time and space event " me or you occupying it", now fill in the gap. god is a reality, whether told by my fore fathers or not, I see god every moment of my existence, without which I can not imagine or create or survive. Listen to lectures by Deepak chopra, mind, body and soul and more for some insight, :-) I my calculations are not correct, please present the correct calculations,:-) time never ripes or starts, it is we who divide it and label it, so for a discussion we need not wait for ripening of time, which will never happen, yes!. there will be a space and time point, when we will be in a position to apply brahmavidya etc. but to reach there some where we have to begin! so, where are we, me in montreal, you in delhi! ha...hugs, :-))please do not refer some articles, books, etc, just discuss. it is getting beautiful! So the question remains - how old is jyotish? :-)) years please. Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji,Discussion forums are not for learning-teaching, butfor discussion. And so there is no chance oftreating like a kid or master, but rather it isindividuals who are the controllers of their ownattitudes. There are masters here, but onlyfriends. ==>> how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> specified based on precision etc. and the possible> time frame projected by fossils.<==1) Time frame as specified based precision etc --> Itis a mathematical model to measure time based on therhythmic movement of the total solar system. Thestarting point of Aries indicate the point where allthe 7 planets coincide at the beginning of theMahayuga as per this mathematical model. (Read theArticle C.hari's research. You will find it in Filessection of this forum, in the folder named 'Sreenadh')It is a theory based on Astronomical evidence andmathematics.2) Time frame as projected by fossils etc --> Itrepresent the current understanding of human beingsabout the time frame of human evolution. Thisknowledge is not final and may get modified based onfurther evidence. It is a theory based on Fossilevidence and normal logic.As you may know all the theories have existence onlyin the human mind. The "TIME" by itself is not boundto its human understanding such assecond-Minute-Hour-Year etc, or nadi-vinadi-manuantaraetc of Indian system. Even if all these division doesnot exist (even if all thinking being like humanbeings does not exist) time would be there, flowingwithout divisions, as far movements are there. Time isessentially bound to movement. If there is nomovement, then there is no importance to time. Eventhought is a movement. In the eternal reference frameprobably time itself is an illusion felt by fragments(read beings) trapped within specific frames."how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specifiedbased on precision etc. and the possible time frameprojected by fossils."The first is a theory based on Astronomical evidenceand mathematics. The second is a theory based onFissile evidence and normal logic. In the currentstate the linking of the two is impossible becausethere is no common thread. If someone wants to linkthese two, then he should find evidences that branchesand links both astronomy and fossils, or mathematicsused and the normal logic. There is no alternate way.Any one can try a true research and find or invent thelinks. It is a possible research field.==>> goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> million human years, and jyotisha existed before> this time and humans were vedic in culture in india> atleast.<==Nop. Pre-defined assumptions distort the trueresearch. Especially false notions set as goals candistort the research and make the whole effort a wasteof time and energy. The path should bedirected/determined by the new evidences and factsthat come to light and become accessible and not bythe pre-conceived notions. Then our intentions andambitions will force us to discard valuable data, giveundue importance to invalid data, and essentiallycause us to collapse into a wrong conclusion. Ithink it is a big mistake in research path, which anyresearcher is aware of. Please don't fall pray toit. ==>> As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> rishis.<==That is not a logical beginning based on facts, buta story told to you by your for fathers. Neitherdo you know god, nor have any evidence concerning sucha handover. Faith and science (call it research orsastra) take different paths. Faith essentially meansthat there is not enough evidence available. It isalways better to start from the basics. But god is notthe basic but the ultimate for the human thought. :)Points 2,3,4 : Please go and read those notes bychandrahari on Yuga system first. You will find it inthe files section. Those calculations done by you areessentially wrong. Time is not yet ripe to discusssuch points. Hope soon it would be.5- Brahma vidya = Spirituality = The knowledge of theultimate = The knowledge of the oneness. Brahman and Brahma are different. Brahman is theultimate, the stuff with which the universes and thebeyond is made up of, ruled by, exist, and nothinglies beyond. It does not have a life span. It wasalways and will be, unchanged, beyond discussion. Thatis the concept. It is not time bound. If you draw 2axes, x and y, y being the imaginary axis, the realityexist only in one quadrant, there also only in theplane of x axis. Veda also says that the universe isonly 1/4th of what really is!Brahma = The personification of creative power. Thisconcept is a small circle with in the first. As youknow Vishnu, Maheswara are 2 other majorpersonifications. Please don't confuse, Brahman and Brhma even inconceptual discussions. ==>> 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!<==Now where are we?! You in kanada and I am in Delhi. Lollzzz...... Ha..Ha.. Hugs.. There is no throwingand catching...It is no competition, but just adiscussion, knowledge flying here and there... Enjoy! Thanks for all the valuable knowledge, info andunderstanding you shared with me. :)Om NamaH SivayaLove,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Sreenadh jee, > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me> like a kid :-)) please.> It is really getting beautiful, as per> paleontology, it is believed that human species> originated around 40 million human years i.e.> 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the> knowledge based on fossils, which does not mean that> there are no fossils lying unearthed and also no> human species existed before that, and if a species> is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some> knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> extinct, knowledge wise.> So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> specified based on precision etc. and the possible> time frame projected by fossils.> goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> million human years, and jyotisha existed before> this time and humans were vedic in culture in india> atleast.> As you said let us start from the begining, > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> rishis. skanda hora or jyotishmati created by> brahama, the first, so is manu smiriti the first.> but we do not know when, by simply saying, it is> eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> such question- this is ancient philosophy, how will> we reach the truth, we need some chain to hang on> first, then we slowly move inwards, till we reach> the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one,> repeat it till we get hold of all and then> consolidate.> 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> equinox is one way to calculate astrological age in> terms of human years, one sideral year is about> 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis> calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years> old, i.e. 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 => 2606146998 human years are still to account for. > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of> creation- destruction-> The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth> years= One creation - destruction or one cycle> 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> years, or human years.> 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> Dear Surya ji,> The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on> the precession of equinox and not a measure of human> years!> If you want to learn more read the articles in files> section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not> to> under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> understand them as they are!> >'How old is Jyothisha?' > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an> outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same?> > > Both way, you are welcome. > Tell me -> Which is the first book of astrology? > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> originated?> If it is Rig veda at which period this text> originated?> If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained> in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the> god> itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is> violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha> is> eternal, and still using the question as a tool for> his ego fullfillment!! > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the> original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will> not ask such a question, because he knows that it is> difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> enough evidences. > All these are getting very beautiful!> > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> way, then he won't argue based on that, because then> he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he> proposed> the Yuga system!> If somebody does not understand the Yuga system,> then> also he won't argue based on that, because then he> knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his> understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> argument base!> Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> asks questions and seeks for answers based on> partial> or false understanding!! > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the> basics, how to catch the chains that are really> linked> to the original, and not give the false illusion and> make us fall?! The only way is start from the> originals. Learning is a direct process,> evidences> should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> Spirituality or History this rule remains the> same!!!> P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the> thoughts> that comes after that related to this subject. An> answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer> is not possible) but I request others to share their> beautiful thoughts. > Love,> Sreenadh> > --- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Sreenadh jee,> > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is> > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617,> say> > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth.> > Manu smariti Cp 1> > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> > calculation: > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > Kaliyug.> > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years> > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years> > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years> > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years> > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 => > 30,67,20,000 years> > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters> > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200> > years of current Kaliyuga> > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8> > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this> > old and so is earth.> > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17.> > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per> > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to> > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late> > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in> > culture, but it does not say or confirm that> veda's> > started here, possibility is veda's could have> been> > revived or documented in this period, If you> depend> > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we> are> > not reaching anywhere. > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then> > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed> by> > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then> > The present form is around 3000 years old.> > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur> > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta> > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic,> I> > think yes.> > hypothesis: There could be other older> > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for> us> > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > final.> > So how old is jyotisha! :-))> > Thanks> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > sree nadh <sreesog > wrote:> > Dear Surya ji,> > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how> > old is Vedic culture?!> > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and> > some> > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000.> > Where will we put us in this controversy?!> === message truncated === The best gets better. 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Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Dear Suryaji, Pranam! Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted to respond to a few statements in your message: " discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to come to the truth " Now what is the " truth " for such a search? The seeker of truth wants to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on? Fossils/texts which tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient fossil/text as yet so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha vidya? What if the knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know knowledge was there since time immemorial - the scripting of the knowledge occured much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at the truth??? Only God knows! :) " Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there is some form of bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing Kala or even behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down the memory lane with regards to our existence and existence of jyotish vidya. " After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in all of us why do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and therefore we have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the Masters of the past and the present say the same thing...including persons like Deepak Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS PRESENT MOMENT? So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness within us we can get the answers without having to walk down the memory lane. But since we are not really concsious / in contact with brighu or a brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth but never ever finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and not in history, or so say the great masters.....the great masters for whom TIME stands still or does not exist when they delve into pure consciousness. But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us search and let us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of Jyotish began......;) My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end of such a search what will be its relevance to our personal existence? Ooops does this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not that. I too would like to know how knowledge of the date when jyotish began would help :) Love, Vinita Love, Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Vinita jee, pranam, > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only god knows ....... " , > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to come to the truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in Bhagwat Geeta there is great discussion/argument between disciple and acharya, Arjuna and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup. > So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge came from god, and so did jyotish vidya. > Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there is some form of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the feet, otherwise, all these discoveries etc would not have been there. > So, here we are not cursing Kala or even behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down the memory lane with regards to our existence and existence of jyotish vidya. > Thanks for the comments!:-) > So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or human years? > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, > > Pranam! > > This is also just for discussion's sake. History of astrology....how > old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind it is not > strictly correct....because man may not have known astrology when he > first evolved or was created on this earth....but the rythms of time > and the cycles it creates existed from the time of CREATION itself. > But when did knowledge about TIME first come into being? There are > mythical stories about time and its power on physical existence. > There are also mythical stories about moving back and forth in time > to understand the nature of Maya. For instance there is the story of > sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time of his son > Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse him.Kala took a > physical form and explained, " I have not been burnt up by the > conflagrations even during the times of deluge. Are you going to > harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds have been gulped by > me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been swallowed up. We > are the devourers and others are eatable....Without understanding > the course of events caused by one's own karma how like an ignorant > person do you desire to curse me?... There is neither doer nor > enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth. " Sage Bhrigu at the end of a > long dialogue with Kala had to concede, " O divine lord, Ruler of the > past and the present universe we are indeed adoloscents with > imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like thee have perfect > vision of the past, present and future " . > > So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect knowledge about time > can we seek to know the history of time???;)....or history of > knowledge of time??? > > As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. Only God knows > when knowledge of astrology first came into being on this very tiny > planet called the earth.... > > Love, > > Vinita > > , surya ianala > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear vinita jee, namaskar! > > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! > > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, precision of > equinox, brahma vidya, geology, sreenadh jee but none of them come > anywhere near each other, I have already presented them. > > So, since this forum is called " Ancient_indian_astrology " , dont > you think the first question that comes to your mind is " how > ancient " or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-) > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta@> wrote: > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be > discovered > > next? > > > > Love, > > > > Vinita > > > > , surya ianala > > <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :- > > )) please. > > > It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40 million human > years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the > knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, > > knowledge wise. > > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils. > > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast. > > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it > is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat > it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- > > destruction- > > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One > > creation - destruction or one cycle > > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human > > years. > > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the > > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on > > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human > > > years! > > > If you want to learn more read the articles in files > > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to > > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to > > > understand them as they are! > > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an > > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me - > > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained > > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god > > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is > > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is > > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for > > > his ego fullfillment!! > > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the > > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will > > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is > > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without > > > enough evidences. > > > All these are getting very beautiful! > > > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper > > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then > > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed > > > the Yuga system! > > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then > > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he > > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his > > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as > > > argument base! > > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that > > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial > > > or false understanding!! > > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge > > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong > > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the > > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked > > > to the original, and not give the false illusion and > > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the > > > originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences > > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be > > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!! > > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is > > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts > > > that comes after that related to this subject. An > > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer > > > is not possible) but I request others to share their > > > beautiful thoughts. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is > > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10 > > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say > > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly > > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth. > > > > Manu smariti Cp 1 > > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28 > > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002 > > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar, > > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash. > > > > calculation: > > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi > > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > > > Kaliyug. > > > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years > > > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years > > > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years > > > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years > > > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 = > > > > 30,67,20,000 years > > > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters > > > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200 > > > > years of current Kaliyuga > > > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 > > > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this > > > > old and so is earth. > > > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17. > > > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per > > > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to > > > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late > > > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in > > > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's > > > > started here, possibility is veda's could have been > > > > revived or documented in this period, If you depend > > > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are > > > > not reaching anywhere. > > > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then > > > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by > > > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then > > > > The present form is around 3000 years old. > > > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur > > > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta > > > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I > > > > think yes. > > > > hypothesis: There could be other older > > > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us > > > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > > > final. > > > > So how old is jyotisha! :-)) > > > > Thanks > > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > > SPI > > > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how > > > > old is Vedic culture?! > > > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and > > > > some > > > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000. > > > > Where will we put us in this controversy?! > > > > The better suggestion would be study history and > > > > reach your own conclusion. > > > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, " How > > > > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology " . > > > > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of > > > > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag > > > > 'vedic'! > > > > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of > > > > astrology, may be in existence even from the period > > > > of > > > > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period. > > > > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence > > > > from Vedic period itself. > > > > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and > > > > gave > > > > more importance to stellar divisions whereas > > > > Non-Vedic > > > > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave > > > > more > > > > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern. > > > > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact > > > > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic! > > > > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty > > > > civilization period was the same as or prior to > > > > Vedic > > > > period. So if you ask the question " How old is > > > > ancient > > > > Indian astrology? " then the answer could be at least > > > > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now " How > > > > old > > > > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization? " It is your > > > > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > > > There > > > > too a lot of controversy regarding this. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave namah! > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > how old is vedic astrology? > > > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > > > SPI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > > > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your > > > > Mail page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All- > new > > Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada > Messenger with Voice > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Dear Suryaji I am not sure if anyone has the LIST of " Kerala " shastras ( in your words) complete or incomplete list. But for your inquisitiveness, let me clarify that most of the revival of " today's " astrology is from South India - i.e. primarily Kerala & neighbouring states Some of Astrology shastras which have Kerala base - Prasna Marga, Krishneeya. There may be many other scriptures, but we are not aware of.......you need to wait for some more time, till I complete my own study on it & compile them in one place. I hope you heard or read about Sri C.S. Patel who has given the exhaustive list of scriptures complete it availability in various libraries in India......in the bibliography of his books....kindly refer to the first few editions....later the publishers have changed the format of providing the bibliography........ with regards, sreeram srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Sorry, to left out a question of yours unanswered in my previous mail Question : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of earth years:-)) Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians, only practioners of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is the subject is immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is centuries old subject and to " put a figure " of its starting date is beyond my knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also. The groups- identity as " " is intended to be broad intrepretations / outline of subject discussion strictly on the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add or innovate the subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or Neptune or Uranus or new techniques - new dasha systems or house division systems..... Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and redefine astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus acts like Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated example of current research topics - kindly to not take in literal sense ) with regards, sreeram srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar, Thanks for pulling some interesting sites, no 2, has a very interesting discussion, which clearly tells the story behind dating, there is a big possibility that most of dates were fixed with or without any actual evidence, and during that time, no one from india could have been in a position to guard the indian interest, given the fact that india was under foreign rule for almost 10 centuries. One interesting site is : http://www.hindureligions.com/Astro/Astro_1.htm Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI sree nadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Surya ji and All other friends,Here are some links that may increase your thirst forknowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge.1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm Actually there could be many such sites. Even asmall search shows me that there could be hundreds ofsites from where you could get valuable martial, thatcould guide you in your search to find 1) a common link between "Precession and History ofAncient India".2) Similarly you could find many sites which liststhe contributions of ancient Keralaites to mathematicsand astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the searchof knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture.Best wishes in your endeavors,Love,Sreenadh--- surya ianala <suri_allam (AT) (DOT) ca> wrote:> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> given that, we have so many pointers, vedas,> precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology,> sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near> each other, I have already presented them.> So, since this forum is called> "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont you think the first> question that comes to your mind is " how ancient"> or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5> billion etc. > it is just a discussion.:-)> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > Why is it important to know how old is astrology?> Specially since > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text> may be discovered > next?> > Love,> > Vinita> > ,> surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me> like a kid :-> )) please.> > It is really getting beautiful, as per> paleontology, it is > believed that human species originated around 40> million human years > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on> the the knowledge > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are> no fossils > lying unearthed and also no human species existed> before that, and > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we> can get some > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes> extinct, > knowledge wise.> > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as> specified based on > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected> by fossils.> > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40> million human > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and> humans were vedic > in culture in india atleast.> > As you said let us start from the begining, > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to> rishis. skanda > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first,> so is manu > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by> simply saying, it is > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an> such question- > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the> truth, we need > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move> inwards, till we > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch> another one, repeat it > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of> equinox is one > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human> years, one > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years.> hence rishis > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years> old, i.e. > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 => 2606146998 > human years are still to account for. > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of> creation- > destruction-> > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years=> One > creation - destruction or one cycle> > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth> years, or human > years.> > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote:> > Dear Surya ji,> > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based> on> > the precession of equinox and not a measure of> human> > years!> > If you want to learn more read the articles in> files> > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not> to> > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> > understand them as they are!> > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking> an> > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the> same? > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > Tell me -> > Which is the first book of astrology? > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > originated?> > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > originated?> > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology> contained> > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the> god> > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha'> is> > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha> is> > eternal, and still using the question as a tool> for> > his ego fullfillment!! > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on> the> > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person> will> > not ask such a question, because he knows that it> is> > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> > enough evidences. > > All these are getting very beautiful!> > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> > way, then he won't argue based on that, because> then> > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he> proposed> > the Yuga system!> > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system,> then> > also he won't argue based on that, because then he> > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape> his> > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> > argument base!> > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> > asks questions and seeks for answers based on> partial> > or false understanding!! > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about> the> > basics, how to catch the chains that are really> linked> > to the original, and not give the false illusion> and> > make us fall?! The only way is start from the> > originals. Learning is a direct process,> evidences> > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> > Spirituality or History this rule remains the> same!!!> > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the> thoughts> > that comes after that related to this subject. An> > answer to that qn is not expected (because an> answer> > is not possible) but I request others to share> their> > beautiful thoughts. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:> > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee,> === message truncated === Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar! I think you answered your own questions, :-) It is true that god only knows the truth, and the truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to lack of true seekers for truth is currently present as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500 BC etc, I think the discussion in http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm tells the story why? Reason why, I have put god- its creator as a starting point. Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is the end of the rope of the memory lane. Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to fill it with one stroke, right, first we have to put available markers, history, reach to a point maximum possible, then there are facts, vedas were passed on to the following generations verbally, from time immemorial, A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology, brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc. One day the fossils, artefacts everything will comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a theory, and one day it will be taught in schools. how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of education in west, in india it is still a topic of discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west called india as a country of superstitions and snake charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and there are more vedic astrology research centres, yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was only IQ and EQ, Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a long time or time immemorial. Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like brighu, and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is jyotish please.:-) No. It is true the once you reach that point in super concious or the cosmic mind, which records every time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic records, we will know every truth. it is not a fantasy for me:-) Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you convince people about it, it is very difficult, it will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The importance will catch it after certain time not immediately, like today we take a treatise or a scriptual text and use it without validating it. we believe it to be true of its content. As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have to dig, toil.......:-) Your last point, how it will help our personal existence. Why do we read history: It is an account of past mistakes, and one should read history to avoid already committed mistakes, well it does not guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but then we have to create history for our descendents. Why do you think so much research is carried out to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology, etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how things shaped up in the past, so that we can extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind or future of our nature. Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one day in big corporates there will be resident astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a profile of the person being recruited, so that the managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in exact areas of work sphere. Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind almost everything, I can go on and on like this for pages, but before we reach that point, we have to consolidate our position as an astrologer, with correct history, its development, its application, and for its predictive abilities. so that the future generations who take up this science, take up with pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice. So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-) Thanks Om Namah Shivai! SPIvinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: Dear Suryaji,Pranam!Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted to respond to a few statements in your message:"discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to come to the truth"Now what is the "truth" for such a search? The seeker of truth wants to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on? Fossils/texts which tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient fossil/text as yet so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha vidya? What if the knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know knowledge was there since time immemorial - the scripting of the knowledge occured much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at the truth??? Only God knows! :):)"Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there is some form of bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing Kala or even behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down the memory lane with regards to our existence and existence of jyotish vidya."After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in all of us why do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and therefore we have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the Masters of the past and the present say the same thing...including persons like Deepak Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS PRESENT MOMENT? So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness within us we can get the answers without having to walk down the memory lane. But since we are not really concsious / in contact with brighu or a brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth but never ever finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and not in history, or so say the great masters.....the great masters for whom TIME stands still or does not exist when they delve into pure consciousness.But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us search and let us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of Jyotish began......;) My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end of such a search what will be its relevance to our personal existence? Ooops does this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not that. I too would like to know how knowledge of the date when jyotish began would help :):)Love,VinitaLove,Vinita , surya ianala <suri_allam wrote:>> Om Sri gurave Namah!> Dear Vinita jee, pranam,> Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only god knows ........",> Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to come to the truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in Bhagwat Geeta there is great discussion/argument between disciple and acharya, Arjuna and Shri Krishna . swami ramaswarup.> So, one thing is very clear that, all knowledge came from god, and so did jyotish vidya.> Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there is some form of bhrigu in every one of us without the eye in the feet, otherwise, all these discoveries etc would not have been there.> So, here we are not cursing Kala or even behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in contact with us, neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can only try to travel down the memory lane with regards to our existence and existence of jyotish vidya. > Thanks for the comments!:-)> So how old is Jyotish vidya in terms of earth or human years?> Om Namah Shivai!> SPI> > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:> Dear Suryaji,> > Pranam!> > This is also just for discussion's sake. History of astrology....how > old is it....Now if we say it is as old as mankind it is not > strictly correct....because man may not have known astrology when he > first evolved or was created on this earth....but the rythms of time > and the cycles it creates existed from the time of CREATION itself. > But when did knowledge about TIME first come into being? There are > mythical stories about time and its power on physical existence. > There are also mythical stories about moving back and forth in time > to understand the nature of Maya. For instance there is the story of > sage Bhrigu and how he confronted Kala at the time of his son > Bhargava's (Sukra's) death and wanted to curse him.Kala took a > physical form and explained, "I have not been burnt up by the > conflagrations even during the times of deluge. Are you going to > harm me by your curse? Several Brahmas, worlds have been gulped by > me, several Rudras and several Vishnus have been swallowed up. We > are the devourers and others are eatable....Without understanding > the course of events caused by one's own karma how like an ignorant > person do you desire to curse me?... There is neither doer nor > enjoyer, seen from the point of Truth." Sage Bhrigu at the end of a > long dialogue with Kala had to concede, "O divine lord, Ruler of the > past and the present universe we are indeed adoloscents with > imperfect minds. Only the minds of persons like thee have perfect > vision of the past, present and future".> > So if a sage like Bhrigu can confess imperfect knowledge about time > can we seek to know the history of time???;)....or history of > knowledge of time???> > As i said this is only for the sake of discussion. Only God knows > when knowledge of astrology first came into being on this very tiny > planet called the earth....> > Love, > > Vinita> > , surya ianala > <suri_allam@> wrote:> >> > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > Dear vinita jee, namaskar!> > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY!> > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, precision of > equinox, brahma vidya, geology, sreenadh jee but none of them come > anywhere near each other, I have already presented them.> > So, since this forum is called "Ancient_indian_astrology", dont > you think the first question that comes to your mind is " how > ancient" or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, 5 > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-)> > Om Namah Shivai!> > SPI> > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta@> wrote:> > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji,> > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text may be > discovered > > next?> > > > Love,> > > > Vinita> > > > , surya ianala > > <suri_allam@> wrote:> > >> > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat me like a kid :-> > )) please.> > > It is really getting beautiful, as per paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40 million human > years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on the the > knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there are no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only we can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes extinct, > > knowledge wise.> > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame projected by fossils.> > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast.> > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by simply saying, it > is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an such question-> > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch another one, repeat > it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate.> > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of human years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human years. hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years.> > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human years old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years.> > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 = 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle of creation- > > destruction-> > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= One > > creation - destruction or one cycle> > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth years, or human > > years.> > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-)))> > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!!> > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > SPI> > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > Dear Surya ji,> > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that the> > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory based on> > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of human> > > years!> > > If you want to learn more read the articles in files> > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better not to> > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try to> > > understand them as they are!> > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking an> > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me -> > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text> > > originated?> > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology contained> > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as the god> > > itself, and anybody asking 'How old is Jyothisha' is> > > violating the god, beacuase he knows that Jyotisha is> > > eternal, and still using the question as a tool for> > > his ego fullfillment!! > > > If he knows that Nirayana astrology is based on the> > > original text 'Skanda hora' then such a person will> > > not ask such a question, because he knows that it is> > > difficult to ascertain the period of texts without> > > enough evidences. > > > All these are getting very beautiful!> > > > > > If somebody understands Yuga system in its proper> > > way, then he won't argue based on that, because then> > > he knows what and why the Rishi meant when he proposed> > > the Yuga system!> > > If somebody does not understand the Yuga system, then> > > also he won't argue based on that, because then he> > > knows that these huge numbers essentially escape his> > > understanding and therefore shouldn't use them as> > > argument base!> > > Yes, it is half baked knowledge like mine is that> > > asks questions and seeks for answers based on partial> > > or false understanding!! > > > But any way, how could we know that the knowledge> > > bit were we placed our foot upon is soft or strong> > > before hand?! When the doubts prevail even about the> > > basics, how to catch the chains that are really linked> > > to the original, and not give the false illusion and> > > make us fall?! The only way is start from the> > > originals. Learning is a direct process, evidences> > > should be direct as far as possible. Let it be> > > Spirituality or History this rule remains the same!!!> > > P.S.:- A qn for all to meditate 'How old is> > > Jyotisha?'. Just meditate and write down the thoughts> > > that comes after that related to this subject. An> > > answer to that qn is not expected (because an answer> > > is not possible) but I request others to share their> > > beautiful thoughts. > > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah!> > > > Dear Sreenadh jee,> > > > One evidence for veda's as per swami ramaswarup is> > > > as following.Yajur veda cp 31, Rigveda Mandal 10> > > > sukta 129, Atharvaveda 8/11/3-6 & Samaveda 617, say> > > > that the knowledge of four veda's were directly> > > > delivered by god at the time of creation of earth.> > > > Manu smariti Cp 1> > > > Current age of the earth is: 7 manvanter, 28> > > > chaturyugi, i.e.1 Arab, 96 crore, 8 lakh, 53002> > > > years. Names of passed manvanters, Swayambhar,> > > > Swarochish, Ottmi, Tamas, Ryivat & Chakshash.> > > > calculation: > > > > 1 Manvanter = 71 Chaturyugi> > > > 1 Chaturyugi= four yugas, Satya, Treta, Dwapur, & > > > > Kaliyug.> > > > 1 Satya yuga = 17,28,000 years> > > > 1 Treta yuga = 12,96,000 years> > > > 1 Dwapur yuga = 8,64,000 years> > > > Kaliyuga = 4,32,000 years> > > > Total = 43,20,000 years = 1 chatruyuga x 71 => > > > 30,67,20,000 years> > > > 1 Manvanter = 30,67,20,000 years x 6 manvanters> > > > passed + 28 chaturyugas of 7th manvanter, + 5200> > > > years of current Kaliyuga> > > > = 1,96,08,53,002 years i.e. 1 Arab, 96 crore, 8> > > > lakhs, 53 thousand and two years. Veda's are this> > > > old and so is earth.> > > > Another reference is Bhagvad geeta shloka 8/17.> > > > So sindhu saraswathy civilization, as per> > > > archeaological evidence dates back to 3100 BC to> > > > 1400 BC, in three phases, early , mature and late> > > > phase, it is true that these people were vedic in> > > > culture, but it does not say or confirm that veda's> > > > started here, possibility is veda's could have been> > > > revived or documented in this period, If you depend> > > > on science alone e.g. carbon dating etc, then we are> > > > not reaching anywhere. > > > > So if vedic astrology is a part of veda's then> > > > they are as old as earth and veda's, if developed by> > > > absorbing all the other streams of astrology, then> > > > The present form is around 3000 years old.> > > > Lord Vishnu reincarnated as Lord Krishna in dwapur> > > > yuga, i.e.before 5200 years, Lord rama in treta> > > > yuga, i.e. before 8,69,000 years. were they vedic, I> > > > think yes.> > > > hypothesis: There could be other older> > > > civilizations with or without evidence, it is for us> > > > to excavate, what ever we found till now is not > > > > final.> > > > So how old is jyotisha! :-))> > > > Thanks> > > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > > SPI> > > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > Dear Surya ji,> > > > Do we have any clear cut evidence even to say how> > > > old is Vedic culture?!> > > > Some consider vedas of as recent as BC 1500, and> > > > some> > > > consider vedas to be as old as at least BC 10,000.> > > > Where will we put us in this controversy?!> > > > The better suggestion would be study history and> > > > reach your own conclusion. > > > > * Then you will have an answer to the question, "How> > > > old is vedas, and Vedic astrology".> > > > But now there is a twist!! Only a small part of> > > > ancient Indian astrology comes under the tag> > > > 'vedic'!> > > > * There was a Non-Vedic (Tantric) stream of> > > > astrology, may be in existence even from the period> > > > of> > > > Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period.> > > > * There was a Jain stream of astrology in existence> > > > from Vedic period itself.> > > > Vedic astrology was mainly Sayana in nature, and> > > > gave> > > > more importance to stellar divisions whereas> > > > Non-Vedic> > > > astrology was mainly Nirayana in nature, and gave> > > > more> > > > importance to Sign divisions and the breath pattern.> > > > The Yogic foundation of astrology points to the fact> > > > that it is more of Non-Vedic in nature than Vedic!> > > > As you may know, probably the Sindhu-Saraswaty> > > > civilization period was the same as or prior to> > > > Vedic> > > > period. So if you ask the question "How old is> > > > ancient> > > > Indian astrology?" then the answer could be at least> > > > as old as Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization!! Now "How> > > > old> > > > is Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization?" It is your> > > > trouble.. Study history and try to locate. > > > > There> > > > too a lot of controversy regarding this.> > > > Love,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Om Sri gurave namah!> > > > > Dear Members,> > > > > how old is vedic astrology?> > > > > Om Namah Shivai!> > > > > SPI> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > > > > Mail page.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All new Mail > > > > > > > > Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your> > > > Mail page.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-> new > > Mail.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Canada > Messenger with Voice> >> > > > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Mail.> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar, Thanks for the information, OK I got your email id, I am aware of prasna marga in 2 volumes translated by B.V. Raman Synopsis: An exhaustive treatise on Prasna, or horary astrology. Authorship is attributed to a Namboodiri Brahmin of Kerala, who wrote in 1649 at a place called Edakad, near Talasseri. Motilal Banarsidass. then there is this site: www.Scientificastrology.com, here they are trying to consolidate astrology based on each state of india. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPI Sre_eram <sreeram64 wrote: Dear SuryajiI am not sure if anyone has the LIST of "Kerala" shastras ( in your words) complete or incomplete list. But for your inquisitiveness, let me clarify that most of the revival of "today's" astrology is from South India - i.e. primarily Kerala & neighbouring statesSome of Astrology shastras which have Kerala base - Prasna Marga, Krishneeya. There may be many other scriptures, but we are not aware of.......you need to wait for some more time, till I complete my own study on it & compile them in one place.I hope you heard or read about Sri C.S. Patel who has given the exhaustive list of scriptures complete it availability in various libraries in India......in the bibliography of his books....kindly refer to the first few editions....later the publishers have changed the format of providing the bibliography........with regards,sreeram srinivas Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Om Sri gurave Namah! Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar, I agree with you that nothing should be added or deleted from the original, but how do you know that what you have is the original and not a developed one, given the history of jyotish vidya or shastras. history of jyotish; almost in any document Starts with, it is said that god delivered it to four rishis ......................., or it is said that brighu son of brahma, got it from brahma............., or it is part of vedas, or vedanta, rigveda is 1200 bc, another one says BPhS by parasara was written in 3102 bc. etc. etc. it goes on and on. you can not say as a practitioner, the history part of it is immaterial, it is as important as the science. If today we are worried that new research will add or innovate new ideas, this fear is/was true for all the ages, since jyotish was created. so which is original, the true text without any additions. So, I asked," how old is jyotish vidya", here I am not adding any thing new, infact we are trying to find out , if anyone added things like uranus and pluto in the past etc. so I expect people to contribute what ever information they have with regard to history. Thanks! Om Namah Shivai! SPISre_eram <sreeram64 wrote: Sorry, to left out a question of yours unanswered in my previous mailQuestion : how old is jyotish vidya in terms of earth years:-))Response : Kindly appreciate we are not historians, only practioners of the great subject Astrology, how old or new is the subject is immaterial, however, the astrology subject perse is centuries old subject and to "put a figure" of its starting date is beyond my knowledgebase. Trust the same with you also.The groups- identity as "" is intended to be broad intrepretations / outline of subject discussion strictly on the lines of original scriptures.....i.e. not to add or innovate the subject with new found discoveries like Pluto or Neptune or Uranus or new techniques - new dasha systems or house division systems.....Nowadays it is a fashion to carryout research and redefine astrology - like Jupiter will act like Venus, Venus acts like Mars...etc..( this is an deliberately exaggerated example of current research topics - kindly to not take in literal sense )with regards,sreeram srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Hi, > www.Scientificastrology.com, here they are trying to > consolidate astrology based on each state of india. " consolidate astrology based on each state of india " ?!! It is just an astrology site by some person from kerala, and I couldn't find any book index based on state there! Are you too related to that site :-) Ok. Good to know that you are search of Kerala astrology. Have a good day. Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Sreeram jee, namaskar, > Thanks for the information, OK I got your email > id, I am aware of prasna marga in 2 volumes > translated by B.V. Raman > Synopsis: An exhaustive treatise on Prasna, or > horary astrology. Authorship is attributed to a > Namboodiri Brahmin of Kerala, who wrote in 1649 at a > place called Edakad, near Talasseri. Motilal > Banarsidass. then there is this site: > www.Scientificastrology.com, here they are trying to > consolidate astrology based on each state of india. > Thanks! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > Sre_eram <sreeram64 wrote: > Dear Suryaji > > I am not sure if anyone has the LIST of " Kerala " > shastras ( in your > words) complete or incomplete list. But for your > inquisitiveness, > let me clarify that most of the revival of " today's " > astrology is > from South India - i.e. primarily Kerala & > neighbouring states > > Some of Astrology shastras which have Kerala base - > Prasna Marga, > Krishneeya. There may be many other scriptures, but > we are not > aware of.......you need to wait for some more time, > till I complete > my own study on it & compile them in one place. > > I hope you heard or read about Sri C.S. Patel who > has given the > exhaustive list of scriptures complete it > availability in various > libraries in India......in the bibliography of his > books....kindly > refer to the first few editions....later the > publishers have changed > the format of providing the bibliography........ > > with regards, > sreeram srinivas > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at > giving junk email the boot with the All-new > Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Dear Surya ji, All good, but decrease the ego, and be realistic. These people whom you are talking to such as Sreeram, Vinita, RK etc are toiling with this subject for long and is for sure spiritually elite. Rather than sarcasm here people are more interested in learning and being friendly to each other. Is there any lesson in that? Now, coming to the point: Logic can not lead one to the ultimate, but logic is very useful in systematic studies. The ultimate is beyond logic and thoughts - and the better path in spirituality is meditation than argument, or rather argument is not a path at all! In systematic study of subjects for a doctorate of the like, or to publish a research paper, arguments will help, and of course there logic leads the way. Akashik records (knowledge revealed by the cosmic mind) is something you can access without violating the logical limit of BC 5000 - BC 10000 period origin for Ancient Indian Astrology. 1) Meditate to know the truth about Akashik records. 2) Study History to know truth about Origin of ancient Indian knowledge on astrology and ancient Indian culture. Neither exaggeration nor neglecting will show us the correct path as Budha says take the well balanced middle path. Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah > Dear Vinita Jee, Namaskar! > I think you answered your own questions, :-) > It is true that god only knows the truth, and the > truth we are seeking also is a fact, which due to > lack of true seekers for truth is currently present > as an untruth. if you see dating of vedas, it is > dated around 1500 BC etc, some have dated around > 3900 BC, and now some are saying it is around 7500 > BC etc, I think the discussion in > http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm > tells the story why? > Reason why, > I have put god- its creator as a starting point. > Seeker, if it is me, or you or this forum, it is > the end of the rope of the memory lane. > Fill up the gap.:-) It is almost impossible to > fill it with one stroke, right, > first we have to put available markers, history, > reach to a point maximum possible, then there are > facts, vedas were passed on to the following > generations verbally, from time immemorial, > A hypothesis based on these facts, and try to link > the theory of yugas, epoch, life of earth, geology, > brahmavidya all on a linear sacle of time etc. > One day the fossils, artefacts everything will > comeout to support this hypothesis, it becomes a > theory, and one day it will be taught in schools. > how is it?, vedic astrology is becomming a part of > education in west, in india it is still a topic of > discussion, and acceptance.see, once same west > called india as a country of superstitions and snake > charmers, today deepak chopra is in great demand and > there are more vedic astrology research centres, > yoga centres, here than in india, till now it was > only IQ and EQ, > Now it is SQ, and SQ has been there in india for a > long time or time immemorial. > Regarding Brighu and brahma, let me correct it, it > is true that there is brighu in every one of us, but > everyone is not bramha's son or daughter,like > brighu, > and brahma is definetly in contact with us all the > time, but we are not blessed like brighu to contact > brahma when ever we want or need. hello how old is > jyotish please.:-) No. > It is true the once you reach that point in super > concious or the cosmic mind, which records every > time and space event, Edger casey called it akashic > records, we will know every truth. it is not a > fantasy for me:-) > Ok once I reach this akashic records, or the > cosmic mind, and I know the truth now, how do you > convince people about it, it is very difficult, it > will remain as my prophecy or my imagination, or > creation, or hypothesis, or some other name. The > importance will catch it after certain time not > immediately, like today we take a treatise or a > scriptual text and use it without validating it. we > believe it to be true of its content. > As you said, to prove it in normal terms , we have > to dig, toil.......:-) > Your last point, how it will help our personal > existence. > Why do we read history: It is an account of past > mistakes, and one should read history to avoid > already committed mistakes, well it does not > guarantee that we will not make new mistakes, but > then we have to create history for our descendents. > Why do you think so much research is carried out > to know, life of earth, its creation, paleantology, > etc. it is for knowledge, it is for knowing how > things shaped up in the past, so that we can > extrapolate a tentative future, existence of mankind > or future of our nature. > Jyotish vidya as on today is gaining momentum, one > day in big corporates there will be resident > astrologers, whose main job will be to draw a > profile of the person being recruited, so that the > managemnet can exactly use his/her potential in > exact areas of work sphere. > Jyotish vidya will be the guiding force behind > almost everything, I can go on and on like this for > pages, but before we reach that point, we have to > consolidate our position as an astrologer, with > correct history, its development, its application, > and for its predictive abilities. so that the future > generations who take up this science, take up with > pride and honour and not with guilt and prejudice. > So is'nt it getting beautiful! keep adding:-) > Thanks > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > Dear Suryaji, > > Pranam! > > Again just for the sake of discussion i feel tempted > to respond to a > few statements in your message: > > " discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > come to the > truth " > > Now what is the " truth " for such a search? The > seeker of truth wants > to know how old is Jyotisha. What do we rely on? > Fossils/texts which > tell a story. Have we discovered the most ancient > fossil/text as yet > so that we can do some carbon dating of jyotisha > vidya? What if the > knowledge preceded writing of texts? As we all know > knowledge was > there since time immemorial - the scripting of the > knowledge occured > much later. So how do we date jyotish.....arrive at > the truth??? > Only God knows! :) > > " Kala is someting unfathomable, and I believe there > is some form of > bhrigu in every one of us....Here we are not cursing > Kala or even > behaving like bhrigu, and also brhama is not in > contact with us, > neither can we visit, the lords like bhrigu, we can > only try to > travel down the memory lane with regards to our > existence and > existence of jyotish vidya. " > > After declaring that there is some form of Bhrigu in > all of us why > do you say that Brahma is not in contact with us and > therefore we > have to travel down the memory lane? Dont the > Masters of the past > and the present say the same thing...including > persons like Deepak > Chopra....that realisation/consciousness is IN THIS > PRESENT MOMENT? > So if we all have Bhrigu or Brahma or consciousness > within us we can > get the answers without having to walk down the > memory lane. But > since we are not really concsious / in contact with > brighu or a > brahma within us...we will keep on groping for Truth > but never ever > finding it because Truth is here an Now perhaps and > not in history, > or so say the great masters.....the great masters > for whom TIME > stands still or does not exist when they delve into > pure > consciousness. > > But this is just a fantasy for you and me. So let us > search and let > us dig and let us toil to find out when the story of > Jyotish > began......;) > > My only quarrel is that even if we come to the end > of such a search > what will be its relevance to our personal > existence? Ooops does > this sound offensive? No dear, the intention is not > that. I too > would like to know how knowledge of the date when > jyotish began > would help :) > > Love, > > Vinita > > Love, > > Vinita > > , > surya ianala > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear Vinita jee, pranam, > > Well said! and I totally agree with you, " Only > god > knows ....... " , > > Yaskacharya's Nirukta Granth clearly state that > discussion/arguments are hundred percent needed to > come to the > truth. That is why Upanishad and especially in > Bhagwat Geeta there > is great discussion/argument between disciple and > acharya, Arjuna > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Dear Surya ji, K V Sarma has published a detailed bibliography of astrology books originated in Kerala. It was published by Hoshiyarpur University, Punjab. (You can get a copy of the book by writing to them) I will try to provided the name of the book by tomorrow. You will get the list of 'Kerala sastras' related to astrology from that. :-) Love, Sreenadh --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > Om Sri gurave Namah! > Dear Sreenadh jee, namaskar, > Thanks for pulling some interesting sites, no 2, > has a very interesting discussion, which clearly > tells the story behind dating, there is a big > possibility that most of dates were fixed with or > without any actual evidence, and during that time, > no one from india could have been in a position to > guard the indian interest, given the fact that india > was under foreign rule for almost 10 centuries. > One interesting site is : > http://www.hindureligions.com/Astro/Astro_1.htm > Thanks! > Om Namah Shivai! > SPI > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Surya ji and All other friends, > Here are some links that may increase your thirst > for > knowledge and reverence to ancient Indian knowledge. > > 1)http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html > 2)http://users.skynet.be/Astrologie-Vedique/english.htm > 3)http://www.harappa.com/har/har0.html > 4)http://www.harappa.com/indus2/index.html > 5)http://www.namboothiri.com/articles/contributions.htm > 6)http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/books/ait/ch24.htm > 7)http://www.hinduism.co.za/oldest.htm > > Actually there could be many such sites. Even a > small search shows me that there could be hundreds > of > sites from where you could get valuable martial, > that > could guide you in your search to find > 1) a common link between " Precession and History of > Ancient India " . > 2) Similarly you could find many sites which lists > the contributions of ancient Keralaites to > mathematics > and astronomy. Kerala derives the power for the > search > of knowledge from Ancient Indian Culture. > > Best wishes in your endeavors, > Love, > Sreenadh > > --- surya ianala <suri_allam wrote: > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > Dear vinita jee, namaskar! > > For the sake of history! OBVIOUSLY! > > given that, we have so many pointers, vedas, > > precision of equinox, brahma vidya, geology, > > sreenadh jee but none of them come anywhere near > > each other, I have already presented them. > > So, since this forum is called > > " Ancient_indian_astrology " , dont you think the > first > > question that comes to your mind is " how ancient " > > or how long ago, 500 years, 5000 years, 5 million, > 5 > > billion etc. > > it is just a discussion.:-) > > Om Namah Shivai! > > SPI > > > > > > vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote: > > Dear Suryaji, Shreenadhji, > > > > Why is it important to know how old is astrology? > > Specially since > > one dosn't know when a more ancient fossil / text > > may be discovered > > next? > > > > Love, > > > > Vinita > > > > , > > surya ianala > > <suri_allam wrote: > > > > > > Om Sri gurave Namah! > > > Dear Sreenadh jee, > > > I am definetly interested in answer, and treat > me > > like a kid :- > > )) please. > > > It is really getting beautiful, as per > > paleontology, it is > > believed that human species originated around 40 > > million human years > > i.e. 40,000,000, human years but this is based on > > the the knowledge > > based on fossils, which does not mean that there > are > > no fossils > > lying unearthed and also no human species existed > > before that, and > > if a species is preserved as a fossil, then only > we > > can get some > > knowledge about it, if nothing is left, it becomes > > extinct, > > knowledge wise. > > > So how do we link these two, 1- Time frame as > > specified based on > > precision etc. and the possible time frame > projected > > by fossils. > > > goal is to prove that humans existed before 40 > > million human > > years, and jyotisha existed before this time and > > humans were vedic > > in culture in india atleast. > > > As you said let us start from the begining, > > > 1- gods created earth, and vedas- delivered to > > rishis. skanda > > hora or jyotishmati created by brahama, the first, > > so is manu > > smiriti the first. but we do not know when, by > > simply saying, it is > > eternal or you are violating god by asking such an > > such question- > > this is ancient philosophy, how will we reach the > > truth, we need > > some chain to hang on first, then we slowly move > > inwards, till we > > reach the dead end, we mark it, go back catch > > another one, repeat it > > till we get hold of all and then consolidate. > > > 2- To calculate the life of earth, precision of > > equinox is one > > way to calculate astrological age in terms of > human > > years, one > > sideral year is about 25,800 to 25,920 human > years. > > hence rishis > > calculated.creation is 1,96,08,53,002 human years. > > > 3- geologists- Earth is 4.567 billion human > years > > old, i.e. > > 4,56,70,00,000 human years. > > > 4- Scope for hypothesis- 4567000000 - 1960853002 > = > > 2606146998 > > human years are still to account for. > > > 5- Brahma vidya- one cycle of brahma- one cycle > of > > creation- > > destruction- > > > The Life of Brahma is 311 Trillion Earth years= > > One > > creation - destruction or one cycle > > > 6- Time is a human measure only call it earth > > years, or human > > years. > > > 7- Now where are we, how old is jyotisha? :-))) > > > Thanks! keep throwing.it is getting beautiful!!! > > > Om Namah Shivai! > > > SPI > > > > > > sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > > Dear Surya ji, > > > The Rishis were not fools and because of that > the > > > Yuga system is really a mathematical theory > based > > on > > > the precession of equinox and not a measure of > > human > > > years! > > > If you want to learn more read the articles in > > files > > > section. If we respect the Rishis it is better > not > > to > > > under estimate or over estimate them. Just try > to > > > understand them as they are! > > > >'How old is Jyothisha?' > > > Are you interested in an answer, or just seeking > > an > > > outlet chance to expose your knowledge on the > > same? > > > > > > Both way, you are welcome. > > > Tell me - > > > Which is the first book of astrology? > > > If it is Skanda hora at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If it is Rig veda at which period this text > > > originated? > > > If God gave the Rig veda and the astrology > > contained > > > in it to the seers, then Jotisha is as old as > the > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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