Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Dear Shree... Panditji's question is ok. My answer: I just meant natural, and not as yet functional, benefic. The issue of functional malefics were to come later, but you have already hastened on to that: Ju for Li lagna. Well. How do we steer the discussion? The idea was to go into the peculiarities of Trika and Trisadaaya. I opened with sharing what I understand of it, ie malefics in debility in 3,6,11th. And we'll have to tarry a while, till we get every aspect of the issue clear (or clarified) And it is Sthhaanabala that is implied, in a general sense; I've used the word 'enfeeblement'. I could have trotted out Mars in Cancer for Aqu Lagna. And what do we have? A benefic or malefic, lordship-wise? The 3rd lordship to overrule the 10th lordship? And in Cancer. That is no ordinary sign even if debility sign for Mars. But are we concerned at this stage with that? We have to stay GENERAL, to begin with -- I belive. May I request members to share citations from classics about malefics in 3,6,11 in debility are...etc RK , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Pandit ji, > This good/bad, benefic/malefic classification of planets, houses and > significance is part of something which I would like to term as > " General Approach " , which I won't appreciate much. All such > benefic/malefic classifications are essentially wrong, and causes > confusion, even though helpful at the beginning. There seems to be > only two basic rules at work in the example put forwarded by Srinivas > ji (For Li Lagna 3rd and 6th lord Ju debilitated in 4th and is in > Vargottam). They are- > 1) Debilitated planets losses Stanabala. [Neeche graha bala vivargita > : Planet in debilitation losses strength related to placement]. This > causes a weakening of significance of the planet that is associated to > its lordship houses. > 2) Vargottam causes amplification of Significance of the planet. > [Vargottame swach phalam vidadyal: If the planet is in vargottam then > predict result as if it is in exaltation (since the significance gets > amplified)]. Here the amplification of significance is mainly > associated with the natural significance of the planet. > Thus in essence these rules mean that - > Debilitated planet in Vargottam = Significance associated with house > lordship decreases/weakens and natural significance of the planet gets > amplified. > Exalted planet in Vargottam = Significance associated with house > lordship and natural significance of the planet gets amplified. > If we look into the problems, > 1) The example provided by Srinivas ji > 2) The general question on placement of debilitated planets on 3-6-8-11 > On the basis real predictions given for such placements in > astrological classics, (let me term it as " Specific approach " ), may be > more light may fall in this dark area. I will try to do it in my > next mail. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Pandit ji, > > When we speak of debilitated planets, I think it is better to keep in > > mind that we are considering 'STANA BALA' (The strength due to > placement). > > Debilitation causes 'stana bala' to decrease; thus causing the > > decrease (-ve effects) for the significance (items, qualities etc) of > > the house they own. > > Thus, > > *3-6-8-12 House lords debilitated > > - Significance (whether malefic or benefic) indicated by these > > houses are weakened. Most of those significance are malefic, > > and so in essence it means that malefic influence or > > significance of these malefic houses, indicated by the planet > > through lordship gets weakened. This indirectly means that, > > benefic results are felt to the native, even though benefic > > results (indicated by those houses) is not specially > > strengthened! > > *1-2-4-5-7-9-10-10-11 House lords debilitated > > - Significance indicated by these houses gets weakened. These are > > benefic houses and thus here debilitation indicates that benefic > > results in indicated by the planet through lordship are weakened. > > Indirectly means that the malefic results gets felt for sure! > > *3-6-10-11 House lords debilitated. > > -The normal result indicated by the house though significance, > > or planets placed in those house are increased. These are > > Upachaya houses indicating " increase " . > > For 3rd HL: Results in equally benefic and malefic results. > > For 6 HL : Increase in benefic results like Service. > > Decrease in disease. Indirectly means health! > > That means debilitated 6th lord can give good > > results. > > For 10th HL: Not a good job. Extra effort, being a servant to > > others. Equal possibility of good or bad income > > through that, depending on other planets in 10th. > > For 11th HL: Decrease in income. But if somehow related to Lagna > > or lagna lord 'less but constant' income may follow. > > Or if benefics are present in 11th good income may > > follow. But no healp from elder brothers, and > > scolding at workplace. > > > > Note:- In Srinivas ji's example, for Li Lagna 3rd and 6th lord Ju > > was debilitated in Cp (4th house) and was in Vargottam. > > * 3rd lord debilitated - Stanabala decreased. > > Both benefic and malefic significance indicated by 3rd house > > decreased. Cruelty decreased, but will and effort shows > > its presence. > > * 6th lord debilitated - Stanabala decreased. Both benefic and > > malefic significance indicated by 3rd house decreased. > > But for 6th malefic results are more and benefic results less. > > Thus in essence bad results like disease, hindrance, obstacle > > etc become unimportant, and service and effort become important. > > * Vargottam - The significance of the planet amplified. When > > debilitated 3rd and 6th lord gets vargottam, its stanabala and > > thus significance due to house lordship is already weakened. > > Thus here Vargottam indicates the amplification of the natural > > significance. > > Or in essence it is the Vargottam placement of Ju is the one that > > played the twist. > > The debilitation of 3rd and 6th lord Ju : Neutralized the bad effects. > > The Vargottam of Ju : Amplified the natural significance of Ju. > > > > Again the qn is: Is there a special theory necessary to explain the > > effect of " debilitated planets in 3-6-8-11?. I think not. > > > > P.S. : This good/bad, benefic/malefic classification of planets and > > houses are causing a whole lot of trouble than the benefits provided > > by such a division and understanding. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , Panditji > > <navagraha@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > When you speak of malefic, do you mean naturally malefic or malefic > > due to > > > lordships ? > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/06, arkaydash <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > There are more informed and experienced members on the group to help > > > > the matter forward, the matter Shree Shreenadh wants me to initiate > > > > discussion on. I am qualified to do so only on one count: I'm more > > > > confused than most. (Meanwhile a member - Ramesh Ch Ojha - wants to > > > > know, What of retro planets in 3,6,11? Huu!) > > > > > > > > 3,6,11 are upachaya. (I keep 10th, another upachaya, out.) The > > > > planets therein will become more and more malefic or benefic with > > > > time, depending on whether the planet is benefic or malefic. > > > > > > > > If malefics occupy them, the house indications turn further malefic. > > > > And the planets will take on the maleficence of the houses (the sign > > > > concerned will modify that, though); to that extent malefic planets' > > > > enhfeeblement thru debilty is welcome. > > > > > > > > There are differences though. We cannot lump the malefics planets > > > > together vis-a-vis these houses. Rahu in 11th and Sun in 11th are > > > > two different propositions. Rahu in strength is worse than Sun > > > > (irrespective of strength). This Rahu will give favourable and so- > > > > called good results, but will (at the end of its dasha) prove to be > > > > bad. It will have left the native a worse person, particularly in > > > > the absence of other counterveiling factors in the horoscope, > > > > factors that grant lifelong nobility and dharmic rectitude. > > > > > > > > I will take up more (of my confusion) later. > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Dear RK ji, ==> > May I request members to share citations from classics about > malefics in 3,6,11 in debility are...etc <== Yap, that is what I termed Specific approach. What I said was - ==> > On the basis real predictions given for such placements in > astrological classics, (let me term it as " Specific approach " ), > may be more light may fall in this dark area. <== We are talking of the same thing. Same opinion but different words, and expressions. By the way, I will post my mail on the same tomorrow. [Phew!... How many times I am postponing things! Not my fault, it is the scarcity of time and facilities. I am typing this mail from the office computer ] Dear All, Have a happy day. Love, Sreenadh , " arkaydash " <arkaydash wrote: > > Dear Shree... > Panditji's question is ok. > > My answer: I just meant natural, and not as yet functional, benefic. > > The issue of functional malefics were to come later, but you have > already hastened on to that: Ju for Li lagna. Well. > > How do we steer the discussion? The idea was to go into the > peculiarities of Trika and Trisadaaya. I opened with sharing what I > understand of it, ie malefics in debility in 3,6,11th. > > And we'll have to tarry a while, till we get every aspect of the > issue clear (or clarified) > > And it is Sthhaanabala that is implied, in a general sense; I've > used the word 'enfeeblement'. > > I could have trotted out Mars in Cancer for Aqu Lagna. And what do > we have? A benefic or malefic, lordship-wise? The 3rd lordship to > overrule the 10th lordship? And in Cancer. That is no ordinary sign > even if debility sign for Mars. But are we concerned at this stage > with that? We have to stay GENERAL, to begin with -- I belive. > > May I request members to share citations from classics about > malefics in 3,6,11 in debility are...etc > > RK > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Pandit ji, > > This good/bad, benefic/malefic classification of planets, houses > and > > significance is part of something which I would like to term as > > " General Approach " , which I won't appreciate much. All such > > benefic/malefic classifications are essentially wrong, and causes > > confusion, even though helpful at the beginning. There seems to be > > only two basic rules at work in the example put forwarded by > Srinivas > > ji (For Li Lagna 3rd and 6th lord Ju debilitated in 4th and is in > > Vargottam). They are- > > 1) Debilitated planets losses Stanabala. [Neeche graha bala > vivargita > > : Planet in debilitation losses strength related to placement]. > This > > causes a weakening of significance of the planet that is > associated to > > its lordship houses. > > 2) Vargottam causes amplification of Significance of the planet. > > [Vargottame swach phalam vidadyal: If the planet is in vargottam > then > > predict result as if it is in exaltation (since the significance > gets > > amplified)]. Here the amplification of significance is mainly > > associated with the natural significance of the planet. > > Thus in essence these rules mean that - > > Debilitated planet in Vargottam = Significance associated with > house > > lordship decreases/weakens and natural significance of the planet > gets > > amplified. > > Exalted planet in Vargottam = Significance associated with house > > lordship and natural significance of the planet gets amplified. > > If we look into the problems, > > 1) The example provided by Srinivas ji > > 2) The general question on placement of debilitated planets on > 3-6-8-11 > > On the basis real predictions given for such placements in > > astrological classics, (let me term it as " Specific approach " ), > may be > > more light may fall in this dark area. I will try to do it in my > > next mail. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pandit ji, > > > When we speak of debilitated planets, I think it is better to > keep in > > > mind that we are considering 'STANA BALA' (The strength due to > > placement). > > > Debilitation causes 'stana bala' to decrease; thus causing the > > > decrease (-ve effects) for the significance (items, qualities > etc) of > > > the house they own. > > > Thus, > > > *3-6-8-12 House lords debilitated > > > - Significance (whether malefic or benefic) indicated by > these > > > houses are weakened. Most of those significance are > malefic, > > > and so in essence it means that malefic influence or > > > significance of these malefic houses, indicated by the > planet > > > through lordship gets weakened. This indirectly means > that, > > > benefic results are felt to the native, even though > benefic > > > results (indicated by those houses) is not specially > > > strengthened! > > > *1-2-4-5-7-9-10-10-11 House lords debilitated > > > - Significance indicated by these houses gets weakened. > These are > > > benefic houses and thus here debilitation indicates that benefic > > > results in indicated by the planet through lordship are weakened. > > > Indirectly means that the malefic results gets felt for sure! > > > *3-6-10-11 House lords debilitated. > > > -The normal result indicated by the house though > significance, > > > or planets placed in those house are increased. These are > > > Upachaya houses indicating " increase " . > > > For 3rd HL: Results in equally benefic and malefic results. > > > For 6 HL : Increase in benefic results like Service. > > > Decrease in disease. Indirectly means health! > > > That means debilitated 6th lord can give good > > > results. > > > For 10th HL: Not a good job. Extra effort, being a servant > to > > > others. Equal possibility of good or bad income > > > through that, depending on other planets in > 10th. > > > For 11th HL: Decrease in income. But if somehow related to > Lagna > > > or lagna lord 'less but constant' income may > follow. > > > Or if benefics are present in 11th good income > may > > > follow. But no healp from elder brothers, and > > > scolding at workplace. > > > > > > Note:- In Srinivas ji's example, for Li Lagna 3rd and 6th > lord Ju > > > was debilitated in Cp (4th house) and was in Vargottam. > > > * 3rd lord debilitated - Stanabala decreased. > > > Both benefic and malefic significance indicated by 3rd > house > > > decreased. Cruelty decreased, but will and effort shows > > > its presence. > > > * 6th lord debilitated - Stanabala decreased. Both benefic > and > > > malefic significance indicated by 3rd house decreased. > > > But for 6th malefic results are more and benefic results > less. > > > Thus in essence bad results like disease, hindrance, > obstacle > > > etc become unimportant, and service and effort become > important. > > > * Vargottam - The significance of the planet amplified. When > > > debilitated 3rd and 6th lord gets vargottam, its stanabala > and > > > thus significance due to house lordship is already > weakened. > > > Thus here Vargottam indicates the amplification of the > natural > > > significance. > > > Or in essence it is the Vargottam placement of Ju is the one > that > > > played the twist. > > > The debilitation of 3rd and 6th lord Ju : Neutralized the bad > effects. > > > The Vargottam of Ju : Amplified the natural significance of Ju. > > > > > > Again the qn is: Is there a special theory necessary to explain > the > > > effect of " debilitated planets in 3-6-8-11?. I think not. > > > > > > P.S. : This good/bad, benefic/malefic classification of planets > and > > > houses are causing a whole lot of trouble than the benefits > provided > > > by such a division and understanding. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > , Panditji > > > <navagraha@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > When you speak of malefic, do you mean naturally malefic or > malefic > > > due to > > > > lordships ? > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/06, arkaydash <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > There are more informed and experienced members on the group > to help > > > > > the matter forward, the matter Shree Shreenadh wants me to > initiate > > > > > discussion on. I am qualified to do so only on one count: > I'm more > > > > > confused than most. (Meanwhile a member - Ramesh Ch Ojha - > wants to > > > > > know, What of retro planets in 3,6,11? Huu!) > > > > > > > > > > 3,6,11 are upachaya. (I keep 10th, another upachaya, out.) > The > > > > > planets therein will become more and more malefic or benefic > with > > > > > time, depending on whether the planet is benefic or malefic. > > > > > > > > > > If malefics occupy them, the house indications turn further > malefic. > > > > > And the planets will take on the maleficence of the houses > (the sign > > > > > concerned will modify that, though); to that extent malefic > planets' > > > > > enhfeeblement thru debilty is welcome. > > > > > > > > > > There are differences though. We cannot lump the malefics > planets > > > > > together vis-a-vis these houses. Rahu in 11th and Sun in > 11th are > > > > > two different propositions. Rahu in strength is worse than > Sun > > > > > (irrespective of strength). This Rahu will give favourable > and so- > > > > > called good results, but will (at the end of its dasha) > prove to be > > > > > bad. It will have left the native a worse person, > particularly in > > > > > the absence of other counterveiling factors in the horoscope, > > > > > factors that grant lifelong nobility and dharmic rectitude. > > > > > > > > > > I will take up more (of my confusion) later. > > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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