Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Dear RK ji and Pandit ji, ==> The 'bhaavanashaaya thing' do you for one really apply in your phalaadesha? Tell me. <== I would joyously like to quote your line – ==> Let's go about it baby step by baby step. <== Because, before I state anything about my own stands, I should clarify what the classics say, and also there is a prior example of Ju in 7th (bhavanasakara or not ?) as provided by panditji. Brihat Jatakam states – " Lagnal Putra kalatrabhe subhapati prapteadhavalokite chadradwa yedi sampadasti hi tayo " One of the meanings of this sloka bit is that, if the 5th and 7th from Lagna is aspected (Drishti) or conjoined by Ju then children and wife (vridhi of 5th and 7th house) results. The same can be considered from Moon sign as well. From this sloka it is evident that Mihira is against the " Karako bhavanasaka " concept. Ju is significator of 5th house and Mihira says that if Ju is in 5th house then for sure children will result. Also remember that while speaking about the placement of Ve in 7th Mihira says " priya kalahostagethe suratepsu " meaning an increase (vridhi) in sexual urge. My guru says that Ju in 5th or Ve in 7th is like an over voltage bulb. I have seen horoscope with Ju in 5th. Usually that native would be very bright with many capabilities (Ju is significator of intelligence) but in later stages of life (even by half way through life) they behave almost like lunatics! Their mind become too unstable! Presnamarga give the same combination to judge lunatics!!! It is really over voltage causing damage to the bulb! In essence every karaka amplifies the results the Bhava can produce. May be, It would be right to say " Karako Bhava vridhikara " , but may be at the end if the native can not stand it (due to his inner strength), the fuse of the bulb burns!! Like Mihira I would like to stand against the " Bhava nasakaro " concept at the same time accepting the slokas like the one given in texts like Prasanmarga in the light of the advice given by my guru. Let us take the example provided by Panditji and try to understand it in the light of the above knowledge and the words of Rishis. Yap, we are going into the details. Problem: • Ju in 7th in its own house or exaltation should give many wives or increase in sexual urge. • But is it seen that they are satisfied with only one wife! • Is it that " Bhava nasakaro jeeva " concept (not supported by Mihira and Rishi horas) at work here or something else? • Should we consider and correlate " Bhava vridhikaro Sani " along with it or not? Study: • Ju in 7th cause an increase in sexual urge and beauty of the native. How can I say that?! Because - " Pitro gunadhiko jeeve saptame suhrdanvita rati geeta priyaH khalvadanaH kalahavargitaH " Says Hora Pradeepam. Meaning, If Ju is in 7th he would have more good talents than his father, many friends, would like sex and music, love to travel, won't like to quarrel with any. Look at the statement " rati geeta priyaH " (would like sex and music) in this sloka. Now let us see what Garga hora says about the placement of Ju in 7th – " Gauri suroopam sphuta pankajakshim sitaH subharkshe subhadrishtiyuktaH chirayusham Bhagyayutam naram cha kuryad gurur darpakavasavasi " Meaning, If Ju is in 7th placed in good sign with the benefic aspects then, his wife would be young, beautiful, with beautiful eyes, fair skin. If Ju is in 7th then he would have longevity, luck, and he would be handsome like Kamadeva (the god of sex). Look at the statement " darpakavasavasi " (handsome with good sex urge like the god of sex) in this sloka. From the above due to " Dwi tri samvada bhaval " (since 2 or 3 arguments indicate the same) I conclude that Ju in 7th cause an increase in sexual urge of the native. • If 7th lord is in its own house then the native would be good natured and handsome and will have many abilities. The following two statements substantiate this – " Saptamage saptamape paramayuH preetivatsalaH purushaH Nirmala seela sametastejaswee jayate satatam " Says Vridha Yavana. Meaning, If the 7th lord is in 7th house then the native would have longevity, compaction, good nature, smartness and brightness. This applies to Ju in 7th in its own house as well, as said by Kasyapa Rishi - " Ati guna Jurou jaya dunastite " Says Kasyapa Hora. Meaning, if Ju is in its own house in 7th then, he would have many capabilities (and would be handsome). • But alas! Even though the native have good sexual urge and handsome, women won't show much interest in him! Why?! But before answering that question, let understand who says so. Look at the following sloka from the text Chamatkara Chintamani – " Matistasya bahwee vibhootischa bahwee Rathirvai bhavad bhaminee nama bahwee gurur garva kridyasya jamitra bhave saprindadhikoakhanda kandarpa eva " Meaning, if Ju is in 7th he would be intelligent, will live a good (luxurious) life, but women will not show much interest in him. He would be handsome (and would have good sex urge) like Kamdeva, and would be proud of his own abilities and beuty. He will have many relatives and friends born of his own clan and would be powerful because of this. Just look at the words " Rathirvai bhavad bhaminee nama bahwee " (women will not show much interest in him, and there fore he won't have much girl friends and much sexual life) and " akhanda kandarpa eva " (He would be handsome and would have good sex urge like the god of sex). Is it not interesting?! This is specially true if Ju is in its own house in Sg or Pi. Ok. Now I think it is time to answer the question, why ladies are not showing much interested in such a personality with good contacts, beauty and sexual urge. Even if the ladies are not showing much interest in him, if he is ready to execute his power and abilities, it would be very very easy for him to get or seduce women! Why he is not doing it? Yap, you guessed it, due to his very own nature! He is guru, he is respectable, then how can he do that?! Women are not showing interest in him due to the very fact that he is respectable and serene. Don't you believe me? Let us look at the predictions given for Ju in Cn (exaltation sign of Ju), Sg (own house of Ju) and Pi (own house of Ju). If Ju is in Cn, then - " Vidvan suroopa dehaH prajchaH priya dharma swabhavascha sumahalbalo yesaswi prabhuta dhanyakara dhanesaH satya Samadhi sametaH stiratmajo lokasalkritaH khayataH nripatir jeeve sasibhe visishta karma suhrijjatanurataH " Says Saravali. Meaning, if Ju is in Cn then, the native would be knowledgeable, intelligent, powerful, famous, with good wealth, will stand for truth, will be interested in meditation, stable mind, good children, will do good for the world and would be famous due to that, will live/behave like a king, will follow good deeds, and will have many friends and relatives. Dear women, he is highly respectable, and it is better not to go near him seeking sex!! Even if he want to play with you, he won't violate the etiquette!! It seems that he is not going to fall for you (women really like that), then why fall for him. Probably not! It is better not to go after him seeking sex, and it seems that he won't come after you as well, though he may like to enjoy high grade sex with his wife. If Ju is in Sg then – Acharyo vrata deeksha yejchadeenamsu samstitarthascha Data suhril swapakshaH priyoparasrutadi rataH Mandaliko mantri va dhanurdharasthe bhavet sada jeeve Nana desa nivasee vivikta teerthayatana budhiH " Says Saravali. Meaning, if Ju is in Sg then, the native would be interested in doing Vrata, Yaga, Mantra worship etc. He will advice to do such thing to others (common people) as well. He will acquire much wealth, will be kind and companionate, helping relatives and friends, will be a member of committees or social organizations. He will visit many countries, many sacred places and sacred buildings like temples. Hay man! He is a guru and adviser! It is better to consult him asking for suggestions. Dear women will you dare to make him fall in immoral sex with you?! Or will he like to do so? Probably not! It is better not to go after him seeking sex, and it seems that he won't come after you as well. If Ju is in Pi then – " Vedartha sastra vetta suhridam poojyassatam cha nripaneta slakhyassadhano adhrisho hyaheena darpasthirambhaH rajchassuneeti siksha vyavahara rana prayoga vetta cha khyataH prasanta cheshata sthirasatwayutascha ménage geeve " Says Saravali. Meaing, if Ju is in Pi then, the native would be very knowledgeable in the etymology meaning of Vedic texts (he would be very knowledgeable and interested in grammar and linguistics), respected by friends, a person with leadership quality, perfect (interested in perfection in every field), egotic, will stick to his aim in all his endeavors, will have good knowledge about law-training- teaching etc, will have good understanding about the use of weapons, famous, steady and quit mind, stable, he is not worried about what may come and keeps the stability of mind both in hardships and happiness. Dear women, he is too respectable, steady, able and seems dangerous with his contacts and abilities – it is better to keep away from him! With that much interest in ethics do you think he will come after you, even if there is a huge amount of sex urge in him! Impossible, better to stay away from him and for sure he is not going to hurt you. See how the situation turns out to be! Ju is not destroying anything! Ju is not destroying the normal tendencies of the 7th house, but only enriches it! But when the natural tendencies of Ju takes hold, and strengthens the inner nature of the individual, then some results like many wives becomes almost an impossibility. But we should know that if willing for a person with such a placement of Ju in 7th it is very easy to get 2 or more wives or many sexual relations. That means the result is there – but it becomes yapya (hidden/suppressed) due to the very nature of the native. Or due to the very nature Ju in 7th (in exaltation or own house) imparts to the native. It is very clear that the " Karaka bhavanasaya " short cut is not at all necessary to explain or understand the situation. That is all about Ju, " Bhava vridhikaro Sani " is another beautiful story. I will tell about it and will explain why it is irrelevant in the context of ancient classics in another mail. P.S.1) Dear RK ji, I think my answer is clear by now. I don't use the " Bhava vridhi karo " or " Bhava nasakaro " `thing'. It is better to go the straight but long way, than to take shortcuts that which can not be applied in a generalized manner. If anyone try to do so, he/she will end up standing against the classics, in many situations. 2) Don't ask me to explain how and why " karako bahava…. " Rule does not apply to each and every Bhava. That will make me type many such long mails, which I don't want to do. Instead taking the similar path you can explore and understand why it is invalid for each of the situations pointed out. 3) By the way what is the name of the father of Vaidyanadha suri? I don't have that info. Love, Sreenadh , " arkaydash " <arkaydash wrote: > > Dear Shreenadh, > Let's go about it baby step by baby step. > > First, Ju. Must be in Jataka Parijaata, where I have come across the > rule: Ju in 2nd alone (ie singly) makes for poverty. Exception can > be allowed for its lordship of the said hse. That too comes under > karako...doesn't that? > > You mean to say: BJ doesn't follow the tenet and would like us to > cross-check with Moon lagna. Meaning from Moon lagna? But what > difference wil that make. What kind of countervailing effects will > Moon lagna provide. Anyway, if we check from Moon we are subscribing > to the rule whether 'this' kaaraka is destroying the signinfication. > No getting away from it, by our this lunal resort on Varah's say- so. > > Vidyanaadh Suri's line is less self-contradictory. He acquiesces, > but wants a peep into the stellar sub-mansion. [btw what do you > think of his father's classic?] > > Similarly, JP. It supports, but with the rider that the > Nakshatra lordship will finally decide whether a particular planet > as a karaka will destroy the bhaava. How? > > Have you found the exact parameters of application of the rider? > > Now, Saturn when has Saturn promoted the bhava it occupies? And > where has this Sa as karaka destroyed (or dented) the longevity when > in 8th. We know there is a double apavaada here (Sa in 8th). But > when has Me in 4th made for poor intellect, and Ju in 9th > impoverished the higher mind (or made one irreverent towrds > tradition and deviant from conduct praised in tradition)? Or for > that matter Ve in 7th denied sexual pleasure, Sun in 1st created a > feeble body, Ma in 3rd makes one timorous, without sibling? > > The 'bhaavanashaaya thing' do you for one really apply in your > phalaadesha? Tell me. > > But we have Ju/Sa 'inverse effect' (folksy) tenet to test. Remember > baby steps? > > Remember, there are many learners like me and possibly Vinita [who > despairs astrology is not for her; I couldn't make out her chart > from what you sent me in diagram (it got fragged); I see so much of > her chart being discussed yet nobody reassures her that it is for > her too.] > > > RK > > , sree nadh > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear RK ji, > > You said: > > ==> > > The (awareness of) rule (paradigm) Panditji braoched -- Saturn's > > aspect/Ju's presence -- is widespread but its classic hinterland > is > > murky. Let's search. > > <== > > There is a rule " Karako bhava nasaka " > > Brihat Jataka stands against it; Jataka Parijata supports it. > > Depend on Lagna or Moon sign says Brihat Jataka; Depend on > many (Adhana Nakshatra, Lagna Nakshatra etc) states (in one or two > slokas) Jataka Parijata. > > > > The people who popularize such exception rules generally depend > mainly on BPHS, Jaimini Sutra and Jataka Parijata. Most of them are > familiar with BPHS and Jaimini Sutra and know well what is told in > it and what not. But most of them are not familiar with Jataka > Parijata and it is an uncertain ground for them. > > Summing it all, when ever you encounter such popular > statements search for there root in Jataka Parijata. Probably you > will find it there. Just some thoughts, I need to check. > > > > By the way, Jataka parijata is a good text, if not > misinterpreted, and mixed with other systems like Jaimini. > Vidyanadha Suri (The auther of Jataka Parijata) says that he is > trying to brief the rules put forward in Saravali, which > fundamentally tries to compliment Brihat Jataka. Thus the same > applies to Jataka Parijata as well. Since Vidyanadha Suri depends on > the Authentic books Brihat Jataka and Saravali the text should be > valued and studied in the right sprit, with out violating the > basics, and understanding the base from which he derived the > arguments. We should know that if a previous text didn't said or > indicated the same, Vidyanadha Suri wouldn't have made those > statements. > > Just giving a pointer to the untold question, " where to look > for such slokas " . > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > arkaydash <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shreenadh, > > > > Merely touching upon them will not do. (Forums like astrology > > magazines and journals have done so in the second half of the past > > century.) Our half-hearted subscription to folksy paradigm has > > blunted our predictive edge, I think. > > > > Saturn's aspects promotes a house, tenancy hinders the growth. The > > reverse holds for Jupiter. Which gives us: Ju's aspect promotes > and > > tenancy hampers. > > > > Are we to take it to be so. Ju in 7th will restrict the joy of > sex, > > in 8th will short-circuit longevity, in 5th will delimit happniess > > from children (which is another paradigm waiting to be tested) and > > so on. > > > > Is it true from 'our experience' that Ju's tenancy hampers a > house? > > Has the aspect of Sa promoted a house? We should be clear how we > > have to go about applying tenets like this except when the hse in > Q > > is the hse owned by them (Or else, according to this rule even > > exalted Ju stunt the tenanted hse) > > > > Panditji says: > > > > " I meant Guru in 7th will give one good relationship but not a > > motivation to seek out more hence will stunt the growth of that > > house " > > > > Ju in madana sthhaana should not dent it as long as it is its own, > > exaltation, or even a friendly sign. Ju in strength in 7th will > not > > be causative of variegated -- or king's -- sexual enjoyment, > because > > the planet's essential nature will rein in promiscuous tendency. > And > > that is because of the tenet of 'gunasaadrushya' (your > Presnamaarga, > > my dear Shree...) > > > > Call it its beauty or the thrill that is Jyotisha. Which, in fact, > > lies as much in sifting through the plethora as in summoning the > apt > > rule and subsuming it under the relevant 'arc rule'. > > > > The (awareness of) rule (paradigm) Panditji braoched -- Saturn's > > aspect/Ju's presence -- is widespread but its classic hinterland > is > > murky. Let's search. And test. > > > > RK > > > > > > > > , sree nadh > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pandit ji, > > > > > > ==> > > > I also wanted you touch upon the paradigm that is in vougue > > that " Guru hampers the significations of house he is in and Shani > > extends the results of house he is in " . Do you know of any classic > > that supports such a view. Lets say that there is classical > support. > > Even then how to read the real meaning in this statement ? > > > <== > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > ==> > > > What kind of a Mahapurusha yoga will a planet in > > > exaltation or in own sign in 7th will generate even if it is > Hamsa > > > Yoga or Bhadra Yoga for that matter? Malavya Yoga is > > understandable. > > > And then Sasa Yoga in 7th? > > > <== > > > > > > I will write back in detail. > > > > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > Panditji wrote: > > > Thanks Sreenadh, > > > > > > Thats why jyotish is so facinating. > > > > > > Lets look at the 1st house and follow the 2 times 3 times > > pleasure from house if graha is exalted/own house etc. Tula lagna > > Shukra in 6th. Now shukra as lagna lord is exalted but also lagna > > lord in 6th is not good from health standpoint. Also in this case > it > > is 8th lord in 6th. This will test quite a few jyotish paradigms. > > > > > > I also wanted you touch upon the paradigm that is in vougue > > that " Guru hampers the significations of house he is in and Shani > > extends the results of house he is in " . Do you know of any classic > > that supports such a view. Lets say that there is classical > support. > > Even then how to read the real meaning in this statement ? > > > > > > Lets say Shani is in 7th. The way shani will give " vriddhi " ( > > growth) to the house is by giving a native motivation toward the > > signification of the house ( Many relationships) but never happy > > with them. Lets say Guru is there, then the way Guru will stunty > the > > growtgh of the house is by not giving a good relationship with one > > and as the person is happy with it he won't go around seeking > many. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > P.S. May be we should start a new thread for discussion on > > different topics > > > > > > > > > > > > arkaydash wrote: > > > Dear Shreenadh, > > > That's some secret sharing on your munificent part. I was > curious > > > which Varaha Hora you are happily citing every now and then. I > > asked > > > you to share them. You kept the ubiquitous Vrihat Jatak close to > > > your chest. Okay. Now your Jyotishmati! I will go and raid your > > Kota > > > residence. > > > * * * > > > > > > Lucid understanding, this: > > > > > > " ... Yes, of course, if it was ancient times. An exalted > graha > > > or graha > > > > in own house in 7th indicates too much pleasure from ladies, > and > > > not a > > > > frustrated married life. Such things are suited for kings > or > > > persons > > > > who live a luxurious life (with many wives or girlfriends) and > > at > > > the > > > > same time a successful married life. That is why it becomes a > > Maha > > > > Purusha Yoga. But it wrong to predict troubles related to > > > married > > > > life, or divorce or the like, if malefics are not aspecting > 7th. > > > By the > > > > way an graha in own house though primarily indicate two and > three > > > > respectively, they can indicate the number `many' as well... " > > > > > > > > > Would like to modify the word 'many' to 'plenty', > > > The idea being sufficiency. Wotsay, Panditji? > > > > > > Now another aspect. What kind of a Mahapurusha yoga will a > planet > > in > > > exaltation or in own sign in 7th will generate even if it is > Hamsa > > > Yoga or Bhadra Yoga for that matter? Malavya Yoga is > > understandable. > > > And then Sasa Yoga in 7th? > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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