Group Discussion Classes on Vedic Astrology

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri ArjunYour comments are commendable and this is what I had in mind. A few weeks ago, I had discussed the same with Sri Sreenadh and had sent email to others. A guided group discussion has amazing quality of friendliness and teaching. This cannot be achieved in a formal setup. Furthermore, there is a problem I see with institutionalized teaching. The students start swearing by their teachers and oneupmanship can creep in. Even in some of the forums, I do recognize groupisms and favoritism. I choose to ignore it. When we are doing collective research, does it matter who is right and who is wrong? Mature efforts are required to not let these divisions rust the entire structure of Astrology. If each one of us keeps a watch over oneself (not others) and see what tendencies are making him or her more involved with this effect of Maya, it would make our groups a very healthy place. My family has created 5 ashrams across north india where meditation and spiritual teaching takes place. We are associated with Gurudev Sri Swami Dayananda, Sri Swami Bhoomananda, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sri Swami Tejomayananda, Ramakrishna Mission, and Vedanta Academy.

If there is spirit and want of learning, we can think of arranging a Jyotish Retreat at our Farmhouse-Ashram in Chatterpur Delhi. It is made in 13 acres of quietude and 100 plus people can stay there. We have lecture room and a kitchen. There are so many ideas if one wants to do something despite all odds, etc. All one needs is God's blessings. I am posting this message in a few other groups to get their ideas as well. Thanks and Regards

BharatOn 5/26/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote:

 

namaste bharat ji

 

before we talk of sreenadh ji's classes, i wish to put few of my

observations:

 

1. institutions like ICAS, Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan and SJC have

contributed a lot in spreading the light of jyotish to aspiring

astro students since ages. however, they are institutes and lessons

are taught like a curriculum. few individual heroes of modern

jyotish too have produced thousands of students on their own.

 

2. jyotish is such a kind of subject that it cannot be taught like

other subjects or read from books. it is best learnt in a two way

interface or in a open house discussion between many students. in

such manner a student get answers to all his 1001 doubts and learn

the subject FULLY without any gaps.

 

3. sreenadh ji and his group is found as one such source where there

is no nonsense which creeps in other groups and jyotish alone is

discussed here SERIOUSLY in a friendly manner with everyone trying

to be as humble a student to learn as much. there is another such

serious group but i found so much sycophancy and if the so called

gurus does not have answers, the queries are just ignored and even

the reminders are just ignored whereas in this group, all queries

get answered and if one does not have an answer members strive to

search for an answer and if he fails to find one, he would go to the

extent of exploring new logics/answers or invent new logics/answers

and put before the audience.

 

unlike the gurukool system, unlike the school type sysem, this free

open house way of spreading jyotish or learning jyotish is ideal for

today's man.

 

in case sreenadh ji cant find time for your noble idea of a free

class in delhi, it would be a better idea if we all collectively

start learning the jyotish again " from scratch " with all our 1001

doubts getting cleared in that learning process.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

, " Bharat Hindu

 

Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Arjun

>

> I have offered place for starting of classes in Delhi whenever Sri

Sreenadh

> is back here. He still waits for everyone's response.

>

> I hope the classes can start.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

> On 5/25/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote:

> >

> > dear sreenadh ji

> >

> > the way you explain rules in simple and easily understandable way

> > makes you an ideal teacher. if and when you decide to teach

> > astrology, i would be your first student.

> >

> > could you please advise is there any way to figure out the total

> > number of children for a 'man' from one wife or two wives or how

> > many children from each wife.

> >

> > for example, one person has two wives. he begets three children

> > from 1st wife and two children from the second wife. does his

chart

> > suggests that he would be having a total of five children along

with

> > the genders of the children. what if a person like osama bin

laden

> > having a dozen wives and several dozens of children. does that

big

> > figure fits in the formulae mentioned by you.

> >

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> >

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji,

> > > Any amsa should be a continuous counting from Aries. As you

can

> > see

> > > in the case of Navamsa it is clear.

> > > =>

> > > > Is this kind of counting done anywhere where the use of the

> > navashas

> > > > traversed is mentioned in tha classics ?

> > > <=

> > > You mean the countining mentioning Chara-sthira-dwiswabhava

> > > variation. I thik there is probably a sloka in Prasnamarga.

(Have

> > to

> > > check)

> > > The counting is just a technique to get Navamsa position in an

> > easy

> > > method and it is not necessory that Rishi horas should mention

> > them,

> > > even after stating that is 1/9th of a sign (Navamsa).

> > > We can see planty of places where navamsa is used in Rishi

horas.

> > I

> > > will give some examples in some other mail, quoting those

slokas.

> > >

> > > =>

> > > > P.S. Lets do the same exercise for number of siblings.

> > > <=

> > > Not much difference - It is the same method used to find the

> > number

> > > of children. One just need to change the significator, house

etc -

> > > that is all.

> > >

> > > =>

> > > > Also,lets discuss the

> > > > SAV points to do the same calculations

> > > <=

> > >

> > > I am not an expert in SAV and is still in search, who created

> > this

> > > Ashtavarga system? If you discuss it I will listen.

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > > , Panditji

> > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, Navansha in each sign starts

> > > >

> > > > Same sign for chara

> > > > 9th from the sign in sthir and

> > > > 5th from the sign in dwiswabaha.

> > > >

> > > > Is this kind of counting done anywhere where the use of the

> > navashas

> > > > traversed is mentioned in tha classics ?

> > > >

> > > > This technique like you said is not foolproof, and will not

work

> > if

> > > one had

> > > > more than 7-8 kids. As number of navashas traversed will be

12

> > max

> > > and then

> > > > when one takes out malefic signs and malefic planets out of

it,

> > it

> > > would be

> > > > tough to get more than a few kids.

> > > >

> > > > P.S. Lets do the same exercise for number of siblings.

Also,lets

> > > discuss the

> > > > SAV points to do the same calculations

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 5/25/06, sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > =>

> > > > > > In your example of navansh, you said 2 male children (

Li

> > and

> > > Sg) is it

> > > > > because li

> > > > > > and Sg are odd and hence male signs ?

> > > > > <=

> > > > > Yes.

> > > > >

> > > > > =>

> > > > > > Secondly, For sthir sign the counting starts from 9th (

Is

> > it

> > > because

> > > > > of badhaka sign

> > > > > > for sthir rashi is 9th from it ? What the logic behind

this

> > > counting ?)

> > > > > <=

> > > > >

> > > > > No - it is not conected to the badhaka concept. Navamsa

> > couting

> > > technique

> > > > > is a simplefied version of Rx9 maths that is fundamental to

> > > Navamsa. I will

> > > > > explain.

> > > > > For Aries how many Navamsas are there? 9 right? For Aries

> > > Navamsha count

> > > > > starts from Aries and ends in Sg. So where shold the

counting

> > of

> > > Navamsha

> > > > > for Tarus should start? From the next sign Cp right? This

Cp

> > is

> > > the 9th from

> > > > > Tarus, that is just co-insidance. So for Tarus the

conting

> > > starts from Cp

> > > > > and ends in Virgo, sice only 9 amsas are there. The next

sign

> > is

> > > Ge. For

> > > > > geminy from where the counting should start? The sign next

to

> > > Virgo - right?

> > > > > So fo Ge the counting starts from Libra. Now Libra is the

5th

> > > from Gemini,

> > > > > that is just co-insidance. So the actual concept behind

is :

> > > > > Navamsa is the 9th paripriti (harmonic) of Rasi.

> > > > > If anyone what to find in which sign navamsa falls he

can

> > > simply use

> > > > > the formula

> > > > > R x9 as well.

> > > > > Fro example, If Mo is in 7th degree of Aries, then,

> > > > > 7 deg x 9 = 63 deg

> > > > > Every body knows that a sign is 30 deg and there fore 63

deg

> > > should fall

> > > > > in Gemini. Or in otherwords 7 deg aries is the 3rd

Navamsa

> > and

> > > it, ranges

> > > > > from 6 deg 40 min to 10 deg 00 min in Aries, and is

alotted to

> > > Gemini

> > > > > for navamsa rulership.

> > > > >

> > > > > This kind of mixing of the charecteristics of the signs is

the

> > > fundamental

> > > > > concept behind astrology. That is why parasara said about

> > Hora -

> > > > > " Parivritti dwayam tesham meshadou kremaso vadet "

> > > > > Hora is the second harmonic of Rasi (R x 2)

> > > > > And about Drekkana -

> > > > > " Parivritti treyam tesham meshadou kremaso vadet "

> > > > > Drekkana is the third harmonic of Rasi (R x 3)

> > > > > Yes, this kind of mixing of the charecteristics of Rasis

is

> > the

> > > concept

> > > > > behind Dwadasa varga system.And Navamsa is the 9th Varga

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > *Panditji <navagraha@>* wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks Sreenadhji,

> > > > >

> > > > > In your example of navansh, you said 2 male children ( Li

and

> > Sg)

> > > is it

> > > > > because li and Sg are odd and hence male signs ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Secondly, For sthir sign the counting starts from 9th ( Is

it

> > > because of

> > > > > badhaka sign for sthir rashi is 9th from it ? What the

logic

> > > behind this

> > > > > counting ?)

> > > > >

> > > > > What about counting for Char and dwiswabhav rashis ? Where

> > does

> > > the

> > > > > counting begin ?

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 5/24/06, sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > When you say navansha of 5th lord, meaning the

number

> > of

> > > signs

> > > > > > traversed by 5th

> > > > > > > lord from the rashi position ? i.e. If 5th lord is in

> > cancer

> > > and in

> > > > > > dhanu navansha, it

> > > > > > > has traversed 6 placed.

> > > > > > <=

> > > > > > Yes. But well I would calrify. Think that for Ta

Lagna

> > the

> > > 5th lord

> > > > > > Me is in Aq, and the Me Navamsa is in Cp. Since Aq is a

> > sthira

> > > sign Navamsa

> > > > > > counting starts from 9th sign Li, which means that Me is

in

> > the

> > > 4th Navamsa.

> > > > > > So the navamsa that should be considered are total 4 in

> > number -

> > > Li, Sc, Sg

> > > > > > and Cp. Out of this Sc and Cp are owned by malifics and

> > should

> > > be

> > > > > > discarded. The remaining are Li and Sg navamsas which

> > indicates

> > > 2 male

> > > > > > children.(We need to see Li and Sg, if any malifics are

> > placed

> > > in those

> > > > > > signs that also discarded)

> > > > > > I think this method is pretty simple and clear. This

is

> > the

> > > normal

> > > > > > using style of this method. (If you want to use this

method

> > > this much is the

> > > > > > authentic portion. What is given below is part of some

> > > traditional advice)

> > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > But there is some thing special as well. Which can

make

> > it

> > > complex.

> > > > > > Normally it is discarded. It is given below.

> > > > > > The problem with this method is - The ancients (don't

> > know

> > > the exact

> > > > > > ref) give a single rule for counting of Navmsa. Apart

from

> > the

> > > two ancient

> > > > > > methods -

> > > > > > 1) Normal number of Navamsa (If planet in 9th degree it

is

> > in

> > > 3rd

> > > > > > Navamsa etc) - Well agreed and standard method

> > > > > > 2) Always strarting from Aries

> > > > > > They give the following possibilities also for counting -

> > > > > > They say - " Sweche va, swaketre va, swa skane va, swa

neecha

> > > > > > va " , meaning this counting of of Navasa can be -

> > > > > > 1) From its sign of exaltation

> > > > > > 2) From its own sign

> > > > > > 3) From the sign in which the planet is placed.

> > > > > > 4) From its sign of debilitation.

> > > > > > If the standard method fails or seems to fail we are

> > adviced

> > > to follow

> > > > > > this, as per the situation and intution.

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > =>

> > > > > > When you say if the graha is in own sign multiply the

> > number

> > > by 2 , if

> > > > > > in exaltation multiply by 3. Do you mean multiply the

number

> > > contributed by

> > > > > > itself by 2 or 3. That is any planet can at most give 3

> > issues

> > > if in 5th

> > > > > > house or aspecting the 5th house.

> > > > > > <=

> > > > > > Yes. An exalted planet aspecting 3 can give a maximum

of 3

> > > issues - it

> > > > > > is the normal meaning. But the other meaning is also

present

> > > there. In some

> > > > > > situations, we may have to multiply the the total number

of

> > > children we

> > > > > > calculated with 2 or 3, depending on own house placemnet

or

> > > exaltation of

> > > > > > planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > If an exalted natural malefic is in 5th house he does

not

> > > contribute

> > > > > > to the total, is

> > > > > > > this what you mean.

> > > > > > <=

> > > > > > Yes. But this benefic malific clasification is a

problem.

> > > Think of the

> > > > > > situation when Su is in Leo (its own house) for Aries

Lagna

> > can

> > > we say that

> > > > > > no children would be born? But the exalted Ma in 5th

sign Cp

> > > for Virgoa

> > > > > > Lagna it is true. The exalted Ma in 5th sign Cp for

Virgoa

> > > Lagna will cause

> > > > > > untimely death of child (since it is 8th lord as well),

but

> > it

> > > can give

> > > > > > issues as well (Ma is consider karaka for son by some!).

> > What

> > > would be your

> > > > > > openion about exalted Sa placed in 5th for Ge Lagna?

That Sa

> > > neither will

> > > > > > contribute to the total nor will cause death of child

even

> > > though it is 8th

> > > > > > lord. Thus it goes. Too many specila rules.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *Panditji <navagraha@>* wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When you say navansha of 5th lord, meaning the number of

> > signs

> > > traversed

> > > > > > by 5th lord from the rashi position ? i.e. If 5th lord

is in

> > > cancer and

> > > > > > in dhanu navansha, it has traversed 6 placed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When you say if the graha is in own sign multiply the

number

> > by

> > > 2 , if

> > > > > > in exaltation multiply by 3. Do you mean multiply the

number

> > > contributed by

> > > > > > itself by 2 or 3. That is any planet can at most give 3

> > issues

> > > if in 5th

> > > > > > house or aspecting the 5th house. If an exalted natural

> > malefic

> > > is in 5th

> > > > > > house he does not contribute to the total, is this what

you

> > > mean.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 5/24/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > > There are many methods, but most of them does not

seems to

> > > give the

> > > > > > > correct result, may be also due to the influence of

will,

> > > because we

> > > > > > > can stop preganacy at any time. But still I will try to

> > state

> > > some of

> > > > > > > the popular methods that are in use.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Number of children

> > > > > > > ------------------

> > > > > > > 1) Count the navamsa of the 5th lord. Avoid the signs

> > owned by

> > > > > > > malific planets, and the signs in which malifics are

> > placed.

> > > The

> > > > > > > remaining number will give the number of children.

> > > > > > > 2) The same method as told above taking the Ju instead

of

> > 5th

> > > lord.

> > > > > > > 3) The total number of bebefic planets that aspects

> > (Drishti)

> > > the 5th

> > > > > > > house + the total number of benefic planets that is

placed

> > in

> > > the 5th

> > > > > > > house can give the total number of children. But if the

> > > planet is in

> > > > > > > own house you need to multiply the number by two and

if it

> > is

> > > in

> > > > > > > exaltation you need to multiply the number by three.

[This

> > > method is

> > > > > > > very difficult to apply properly, due to many special

> > rules

> > > connected

> > > > > > > with]. But as arjun ji pointed out, the planets placed

in

> > 5th

> > > and

> > > > > > > aspecting 5th has much importance in determining the

> > number of

> > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > 4) The number of planets placed between 5th house

(=sign)

> > and

> > > 5th

> > > > > > > lord can indicate the number of children.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But in general, in total astrology, there does not

seems

> > to

> > > be any

> > > > > > > systematic and generally applied to calculate numbers,

> > > amounts,

> > > > > > > persentage etc, that gives correct results.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Male/Female determination

> > > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > > > We have to depend on Male/Female classification of

signs

> > and

> > > planets.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear pandit ji

> > > > > > > > namaste

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > my understanding (open to correction or addition) is

as

> > > follows:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. all odd signs are male signs and all even signs

are

> > > female

> > > > > > > > signs. so the 5th house is first seen whether it

has a

> > > male or

> > > > > > > > female sign.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2. sun, mars, jupiter are reckoned as male giving

> > planets.

> > > moon,

> > > > > > > > venus, mercury and saturn are reckoned as female

giving

> > > planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3. taurus, leo, virgo and scorpio signs in 5th house

are

> > > considered

> > > > > > > > giving less and delayed children.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4. the number of children is obtained by finding out

> > which

> > > planet

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > in 5th house. for example sun in 5H gives one son.

> > moon

> > > in 5H

> > > > > > > > gives one daughter. mars in 5H gives three sons.

> > mercury

> > > in 5H

> > > > > > > > gives two daughters. jupiter in 5H can give up to 5

> > sons.

> > > venus

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5H can give up to 7 daughters. saturn in 5H can give

> > > maximum

> > > > > > > number

> > > > > > > > of 8 daughters. in rare cases, saturn in 5H also

gives

> > son

> > > if the

> > > > > > > > 5th lord is a male planet and is aspected by a male

> > planet.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5. rahu can cause miscarriages while ketu can give

> > premature

> > > > > > > > (underdeveloped) babies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 6. to arrive at the total number of children the

sign of

> > > 5H, number

> > > > > > > > of planets in 5H, number of planets aspecting 5H and

> > lastly

> > > number

> > > > > > > > of planets in conjunction with 5th lord are reckoned.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 7. first child is seen from 5H, second child from 7H,

> > third

> > > child

> > > > > > > > from 9H etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 8. some researchers have written books stating that

3rd

> > > house also

> > > > > > > > denotes children and have given how many children

each

> > > planet in

> > > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > house gives. but i dont know the logic behind this

and

> > > hence not

> > > > > > > > mentioning them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 9. D-7 or saptamamsha is also seen for calculating

the

> > > number of

> > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10. lastly, in my experience all the above are to be

> > seen

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > mother's chart for it is the mother who gives

children

> > and

> > > not the

> > > > > > > > father. this is based on various reasons. also in

> > bigamy

> > > and

> > > > > > > > polygamy a man begets children from several wives

and in

> > > those

> > > > > > > cases

> > > > > > > > also each mother's chart is seen for the number of

> > children

> > > and

> > > > > > > > their gender.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > pandit arjun

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

,

Panditji

> > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I wanted start a new discussion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > How can we judge from a kundali how many issues

will

> > be

> > > there.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have never gotten a good reading of this vexing

> > issue.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There are things like looking at influence on 5th

> > house

> > > and 5th

> > > > > > > > lord. # male

> > > > > > > > > graha influence = # male issues, etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Has anyoner done a comprehensive study of this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > P.S. It may be a moot point in this day and age

when

> > most

> > > middel

> > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > people have no more than two.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

namaste bharat ji

 

as is the wont of delhites, any such participations on weekends i.e.

saturdays and sundays would be convenient for most. am ready to

enrol myself as the 1st student.

 

with best wishes

arjun

 

, " Bharat Hindu

Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Arjun

>

> Your comments are commendable and this is what I had in mind. A

few weeks

> ago, I had discussed the same with Sri Sreenadh and had sent email

to

> others. A guided group discussion has amazing quality of

friendliness and

> teaching. This cannot be achieved in a formal setup.

>

> Furthermore, there is a problem I see with institutionalized

teaching. The

> students start swearing by their teachers and oneupmanship can

creep in.

> Even in some of the forums, I do recognize groupisms and

favoritism. I

> choose to ignore it. When we are doing collective research, does

it matter

> who is right and who is wrong?

>

> Mature efforts are required to not let these divisions rust the

entire

> structure of Astrology. If each one of us keeps a watch over

oneself (not

> others) and see what tendencies are making him or her more

involved with

> this effect of Maya, it would make our groups a very healthy place.

>

> My family has created 5 ashrams across north india where

meditation and

> spiritual teaching takes place. We are associated with Gurudev Sri

Swami

> Dayananda, Sri Swami Bhoomananda, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sri Swami

> Tejomayananda, Ramakrishna Mission, and Vedanta Academy.

>

> If there is spirit and want of learning, we can think of arranging

a Jyotish

> Retreat at our Farmhouse-Ashram in Chatterpur Delhi. It is made in

13 acres

> of quietude and 100 plus people can stay there. We have lecture

room and a

> kitchen.

>

> There are so many ideas if one wants to do something despite all

odds, etc.

> All one needs is God's blessings.

>

> I am posting this message in a few other groups to get their ideas

as well.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

>

> On 5/26/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote:

> >

> > namaste bharat ji

> >

> > before we talk of sreenadh ji's classes, i wish to put few of my

> > observations:

> >

> > 1. institutions like ICAS, Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan and SJC have

> > contributed a lot in spreading the light of jyotish to aspiring

> > astro students since ages. however, they are institutes and

lessons

> > are taught like a curriculum. few individual heroes of modern

> > jyotish too have produced thousands of students on their own.

> >

> > 2. jyotish is such a kind of subject that it cannot be taught

like

> > other subjects or read from books. it is best learnt in a two

way

> > interface or in a open house discussion between many students.

in

> > such manner a student get answers to all his 1001 doubts and

learn

> > the subject FULLY without any gaps.

> >

> > 3. sreenadh ji and his group is found as one such source where

there

> > is no nonsense which creeps in other groups and jyotish alone is

> > discussed here SERIOUSLY in a friendly manner with everyone

trying

> > to be as humble a student to learn as much. there is another such

> > serious group but i found so much sycophancy and if the so called

> > gurus does not have answers, the queries are just ignored and

even

> > the reminders are just ignored whereas in this group, all queries

> > get answered and if one does not have an answer members strive to

> > search for an answer and if he fails to find one, he would go to

the

> > extent of exploring new logics/answers or invent new

logics/answers

> > and put before the audience.

> >

> > unlike the gurukool system, unlike the school type sysem, this

free

> > open house way of spreading jyotish or learning jyotish is ideal

for

> > today's man.

> >

> > in case sreenadh ji cant find time for your noble idea of a free

> > class in delhi, it would be a better idea if we all collectively

> > start learning the jyotish again " from scratch " with all our 1001

> > doubts getting cleared in that learning process.

> >

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> > , " Bharat Hindu

> >

> > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun

> > >

> > > I have offered place for starting of classes in Delhi whenever

Sri

> > Sreenadh

> > > is back here. He still waits for everyone's response.

> > >

> > > I hope the classes can start.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 5/25/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear sreenadh ji

> > > >

> > > > the way you explain rules in simple and easily

understandable way

> > > > makes you an ideal teacher. if and when you decide to teach

> > > > astrology, i would be your first student.

> > > >

> > > > could you please advise is there any way to figure out the

total

> > > > number of children for a 'man' from one wife or two wives or

how

> > > > many children from each wife.

> > > >

> > > > for example, one person has two wives. he begets three

children

> > > > from 1st wife and two children from the second wife. does

his

> > chart

> > > > suggests that he would be having a total of five children

along

> > with

> > > > the genders of the children. what if a person like osama bin

> > laden

> > > > having a dozen wives and several dozens of children. does

that

> > big

> > > > figure fits in the formulae mentioned by you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes

> > > > pandit arjun

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > >

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > Any amsa should be a continuous counting from Aries. As

you

> > can

> > > > see

> > > > > in the case of Navamsa it is clear.

> > > > > =>

> > > > > > Is this kind of counting done anywhere where the use of

the

> > > > navashas

> > > > > > traversed is mentioned in tha classics ?

> > > > > <=

> > > > > You mean the countining mentioning Chara-sthira-

dwiswabhava

> > > > > variation. I thik there is probably a sloka in Prasnamarga.

> > (Have

> > > > to

> > > > > check)

> > > > > The counting is just a technique to get Navamsa position

in an

> > > > easy

> > > > > method and it is not necessory that Rishi horas should

mention

> > > > them,

> > > > > even after stating that is 1/9th of a sign (Navamsa).

> > > > > We can see planty of places where navamsa is used in Rishi

> > horas.

> > > > I

> > > > > will give some examples in some other mail, quoting those

> > slokas.

> > > > >

> > > > > =>

> > > > > > P.S. Lets do the same exercise for number of siblings.

> > > > > <=

> > > > > Not much difference - It is the same method used to find

the

> > > > number

> > > > > of children. One just need to change the significator,

house

> > etc -

> > > > > that is all.

> > > > >

> > > > > =>

> > > > > > Also,lets discuss the

> > > > > > SAV points to do the same calculations

> > > > > <=

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not an expert in SAV and is still in search, who

created

> > > > this

> > > > > Ashtavarga system? If you discuss it I will listen.

> > > > >

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > , Panditji

> > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, Navansha in each sign starts

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Same sign for chara

> > > > > > 9th from the sign in sthir and

> > > > > > 5th from the sign in dwiswabaha.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is this kind of counting done anywhere where the use of

the

> > > > navashas

> > > > > > traversed is mentioned in tha classics ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This technique like you said is not foolproof, and will

not

> > work

> > > > if

> > > > > one had

> > > > > > more than 7-8 kids. As number of navashas traversed will

be

> > 12

> > > > max

> > > > > and then

> > > > > > when one takes out malefic signs and malefic planets out

of

> > it,

> > > > it

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > tough to get more than a few kids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > P.S. Lets do the same exercise for number of siblings.

> > Also,lets

> > > > > discuss the

> > > > > > SAV points to do the same calculations

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 5/25/06, sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > > In your example of navansh, you said 2 male

children (

> > Li

> > > > and

> > > > > Sg) is it

> > > > > > > because li

> > > > > > > > and Sg are odd and hence male signs ?

> > > > > > > <=

> > > > > > > Yes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > > Secondly, For sthir sign the counting starts from

9th (

> > Is

> > > > it

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > of badhaka sign

> > > > > > > > for sthir rashi is 9th from it ? What the logic

behind

> > this

> > > > > counting ?)

> > > > > > > <=

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No - it is not conected to the badhaka concept.

Navamsa

> > > > couting

> > > > > technique

> > > > > > > is a simplefied version of Rx9 maths that is

fundamental to

> > > > > Navamsa. I will

> > > > > > > explain.

> > > > > > > For Aries how many Navamsas are there? 9 right? For

Aries

> > > > > Navamsha count

> > > > > > > starts from Aries and ends in Sg. So where shold the

> > counting

> > > > of

> > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > for Tarus should start? From the next sign Cp right?

This

> > Cp

> > > > is

> > > > > the 9th from

> > > > > > > Tarus, that is just co-insidance. So for Tarus the

> > conting

> > > > > starts from Cp

> > > > > > > and ends in Virgo, sice only 9 amsas are there. The

next

> > sign

> > > > is

> > > > > Ge. For

> > > > > > > geminy from where the counting should start? The sign

next

> > to

> > > > > Virgo - right?

> > > > > > > So fo Ge the counting starts from Libra. Now Libra is

the

> > 5th

> > > > > from Gemini,

> > > > > > > that is just co-insidance. So the actual concept

behind

> > is :

> > > > > > > Navamsa is the 9th paripriti (harmonic) of Rasi.

> > > > > > > If anyone what to find in which sign navamsa falls

he

> > can

> > > > > simply use

> > > > > > > the formula

> > > > > > > R x9 as well.

> > > > > > > Fro example, If Mo is in 7th degree of Aries, then,

> > > > > > > 7 deg x 9 = 63 deg

> > > > > > > Every body knows that a sign is 30 deg and there fore

63

> > deg

> > > > > should fall

> > > > > > > in Gemini. Or in otherwords 7 deg aries is the 3rd

> > Navamsa

> > > > and

> > > > > it, ranges

> > > > > > > from 6 deg 40 min to 10 deg 00 min in Aries, and is

> > alotted to

> > > > > Gemini

> > > > > > > for navamsa rulership.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This kind of mixing of the charecteristics of the

signs is

> > the

> > > > > fundamental

> > > > > > > concept behind astrology. That is why parasara said

about

> > > > Hora -

> > > > > > > " Parivritti dwayam tesham meshadou kremaso vadet "

> > > > > > > Hora is the second harmonic of Rasi (R x 2)

> > > > > > > And about Drekkana -

> > > > > > > " Parivritti treyam tesham meshadou kremaso vadet "

> > > > > > > Drekkana is the third harmonic of Rasi (R x 3)

> > > > > > > Yes, this kind of mixing of the charecteristics of

Rasis

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > concept

> > > > > > > behind Dwadasa varga system.And Navamsa is the 9th

Varga

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *Panditji <navagraha@>* wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks Sreenadhji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In your example of navansh, you said 2 male children (

Li

> > and

> > > > Sg)

> > > > > is it

> > > > > > > because li and Sg are odd and hence male signs ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Secondly, For sthir sign the counting starts from 9th

( Is

> > it

> > > > > because of

> > > > > > > badhaka sign for sthir rashi is 9th from it ? What the

> > logic

> > > > > behind this

> > > > > > > counting ?)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What about counting for Char and dwiswabhav rashis ?

Where

> > > > does

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > counting begin ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 5/24/06, sree nadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > > > When you say navansha of 5th lord, meaning the

> > number

> > > > of

> > > > > signs

> > > > > > > > traversed by 5th

> > > > > > > > > lord from the rashi position ? i.e. If 5th lord is

in

> > > > cancer

> > > > > and in

> > > > > > > > dhanu navansha, it

> > > > > > > > > has traversed 6 placed.

> > > > > > > > <=

> > > > > > > > Yes. But well I would calrify. Think that for Ta

> > Lagna

> > > > the

> > > > > 5th lord

> > > > > > > > Me is in Aq, and the Me Navamsa is in Cp. Since Aq

is a

> > > > sthira

> > > > > sign Navamsa

> > > > > > > > counting starts from 9th sign Li, which means that

Me is

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > 4th Navamsa.

> > > > > > > > So the navamsa that should be considered are total 4

in

> > > > number -

> > > > > Li, Sc, Sg

> > > > > > > > and Cp. Out of this Sc and Cp are owned by malifics

and

> > > > should

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > discarded. The remaining are Li and Sg navamsas which

> > > > indicates

> > > > > 2 male

> > > > > > > > children.(We need to see Li and Sg, if any malifics

are

> > > > placed

> > > > > in those

> > > > > > > > signs that also discarded)

> > > > > > > > I think this method is pretty simple and clear.

This

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > normal

> > > > > > > > using style of this method. (If you want to use this

> > method

> > > > > this much is the

> > > > > > > > authentic portion. What is given below is part of

some

> > > > > traditional advice)

> > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > > But there is some thing special as well. Which can

> > make

> > > > it

> > > > > complex.

> > > > > > > > Normally it is discarded. It is given below.

> > > > > > > > The problem with this method is - The ancients

(don't

> > > > know

> > > > > the exact

> > > > > > > > ref) give a single rule for counting of Navmsa. Apart

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > two ancient

> > > > > > > > methods -

> > > > > > > > 1) Normal number of Navamsa (If planet in 9th

degree it

> > is

> > > > in

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > Navamsa etc) - Well agreed and standard method

> > > > > > > > 2) Always strarting from Aries

> > > > > > > > They give the following possibilities also for

counting -

> > > > > > > > They say - " Sweche va, swaketre va, swa skane va, swa

> > neecha

> > > > > > > > va " , meaning this counting of of Navasa can be -

> > > > > > > > 1) From its sign of exaltation

> > > > > > > > 2) From its own sign

> > > > > > > > 3) From the sign in which the planet is placed.

> > > > > > > > 4) From its sign of debilitation.

> > > > > > > > If the standard method fails or seems to fail we are

> > > > adviced

> > > > > to follow

> > > > > > > > this, as per the situation and intution.

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > > When you say if the graha is in own sign multiply

the

> > > > number

> > > > > by 2 , if

> > > > > > > > in exaltation multiply by 3. Do you mean multiply the

> > number

> > > > > contributed by

> > > > > > > > itself by 2 or 3. That is any planet can at most

give 3

> > > > issues

> > > > > if in 5th

> > > > > > > > house or aspecting the 5th house.

> > > > > > > > <=

> > > > > > > > Yes. An exalted planet aspecting 3 can give a

maximum

> > of 3

> > > > > issues - it

> > > > > > > > is the normal meaning. But the other meaning is also

> > present

> > > > > there. In some

> > > > > > > > situations, we may have to multiply the the total

number

> > of

> > > > > children we

> > > > > > > > calculated with 2 or 3, depending on own house

placemnet

> > or

> > > > > exaltation of

> > > > > > > > planets.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > =>

> > > > > > > > > If an exalted natural malefic is in 5th house he

does

> > not

> > > > > contribute

> > > > > > > > to the total, is

> > > > > > > > > this what you mean.

> > > > > > > > <=

> > > > > > > > Yes. But this benefic malific clasification is a

> > problem.

> > > > > Think of the

> > > > > > > > situation when Su is in Leo (its own house) for Aries

> > Lagna

> > > > can

> > > > > we say that

> > > > > > > > no children would be born? But the exalted Ma in 5th

> > sign Cp

> > > > > for Virgoa

> > > > > > > > Lagna it is true. The exalted Ma in 5th sign Cp for

> > Virgoa

> > > > > Lagna will cause

> > > > > > > > untimely death of child (since it is 8th lord as

well),

> > but

> > > > it

> > > > > can give

> > > > > > > > issues as well (Ma is consider karaka for son by

some!).

> > > > What

> > > > > would be your

> > > > > > > > openion about exalted Sa placed in 5th for Ge Lagna?

> > That Sa

> > > > > neither will

> > > > > > > > contribute to the total nor will cause death of child

> > even

> > > > > though it is 8th

> > > > > > > > lord. Thus it goes. Too many specila rules.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *Panditji <navagraha@>* wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When you say navansha of 5th lord, meaning the

number of

> > > > signs

> > > > > traversed

> > > > > > > > by 5th lord from the rashi position ? i.e. If 5th

lord

> > is in

> > > > > cancer and

> > > > > > > > in dhanu navansha, it has traversed 6 placed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When you say if the graha is in own sign multiply the

> > number

> > > > by

> > > > > 2 , if

> > > > > > > > in exaltation multiply by 3. Do you mean multiply the

> > number

> > > > > contributed by

> > > > > > > > itself by 2 or 3. That is any planet can at most

give 3

> > > > issues

> > > > > if in 5th

> > > > > > > > house or aspecting the 5th house. If an exalted

natural

> > > > malefic

> > > > > is in 5th

> > > > > > > > house he does not contribute to the total, is this

what

> > you

> > > > > mean.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 5/24/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > > > > There are many methods, but most of them does not

> > seems to

> > > > > give the

> > > > > > > > > correct result, may be also due to the influence of

> > will,

> > > > > because we

> > > > > > > > > can stop preganacy at any time. But still I will

try to

> > > > state

> > > > > some of

> > > > > > > > > the popular methods that are in use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Number of children

> > > > > > > > > ------------------

> > > > > > > > > 1) Count the navamsa of the 5th lord. Avoid the

signs

> > > > owned by

> > > > > > > > > malific planets, and the signs in which malifics

are

> > > > placed.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > remaining number will give the number of children.

> > > > > > > > > 2) The same method as told above taking the Ju

instead

> > of

> > > > 5th

> > > > > lord.

> > > > > > > > > 3) The total number of bebefic planets that aspects

> > > > (Drishti)

> > > > > the 5th

> > > > > > > > > house + the total number of benefic planets that is

> > placed

> > > > in

> > > > > the 5th

> > > > > > > > > house can give the total number of children. But

if the

> > > > > planet is in

> > > > > > > > > own house you need to multiply the number by two

and

> > if it

> > > > is

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > exaltation you need to multiply the number by

three.

> > [This

> > > > > method is

> > > > > > > > > very difficult to apply properly, due to many

special

> > > > rules

> > > > > connected

> > > > > > > > > with]. But as arjun ji pointed out, the planets

placed

> > in

> > > > 5th

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > aspecting 5th has much importance in determining

the

> > > > number of

> > > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > 4) The number of planets placed between 5th house

> > (=sign)

> > > > and

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > lord can indicate the number of children.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But in general, in total astrology, there does not

> > seems

> > > > to

> > > > > be any

> > > > > > > > > systematic and generally applied to calculate

numbers,

> > > > > amounts,

> > > > > > > > > persentage etc, that gives correct results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Male/Female determination

> > > > > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > > > > > We have to depend on Male/Female classification of

> > signs

> > > > and

> > > > > planets.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > dear pandit ji

> > > > > > > > > > namaste

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > my understanding (open to correction or

addition) is

> > as

> > > > > follows:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1. all odd signs are male signs and all even

signs

> > are

> > > > > female

> > > > > > > > > > signs. so the 5th house is first seen whether it

> > has a

> > > > > male or

> > > > > > > > > > female sign.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2. sun, mars, jupiter are reckoned as male giving

> > > > planets.

> > > > > moon,

> > > > > > > > > > venus, mercury and saturn are reckoned as female

> > giving

> > > > > planets.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3. taurus, leo, virgo and scorpio signs in 5th

house

> > are

> > > > > considered

> > > > > > > > > > giving less and delayed children.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4. the number of children is obtained by finding

out

> > > > which

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > in 5th house. for example sun in 5H gives one

son.

> > > > moon

> > > > > in 5H

> > > > > > > > > > gives one daughter. mars in 5H gives three sons.

> > > > mercury

> > > > > in 5H

> > > > > > > > > > gives two daughters. jupiter in 5H can give up

to 5

> > > > sons.

> > > > > venus

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 5H can give up to 7 daughters. saturn in 5H can

give

> > > > > maximum

> > > > > > > > > number

> > > > > > > > > > of 8 daughters. in rare cases, saturn in 5H also

> > gives

> > > > son

> > > > > if the

> > > > > > > > > > 5th lord is a male planet and is aspected by a

male

> > > > planet.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 5. rahu can cause miscarriages while ketu can

give

> > > > premature

> > > > > > > > > > (underdeveloped) babies.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 6. to arrive at the total number of children the

> > sign of

> > > > > 5H, number

> > > > > > > > > > of planets in 5H, number of planets aspecting 5H

and

> > > > lastly

> > > > > number

> > > > > > > > > > of planets in conjunction with 5th lord are

reckoned.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 7. first child is seen from 5H, second child

from 7H,

> > > > third

> > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > from 9H etc.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 8. some researchers have written books stating

that

> > 3rd

> > > > > house also

> > > > > > > > > > denotes children and have given how many children

> > each

> > > > > planet in

> > > > > > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > house gives. but i dont know the logic behind

this

> > and

> > > > > hence not

> > > > > > > > > > mentioning them.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 9. D-7 or saptamamsha is also seen for

calculating

> > the

> > > > > number of

> > > > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 10. lastly, in my experience all the above are

to be

> > > > seen

> > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > mother's chart for it is the mother who gives

> > children

> > > > and

> > > > > not the

> > > > > > > > > > father. this is based on various reasons. also

in

> > > > bigamy

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > polygamy a man begets children from several wives

> > and in

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > cases

> > > > > > > > > > also each mother's chart is seen for the number

of

> > > > children

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > their gender.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ,

> > Panditji

> > > > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I wanted start a new discussion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > How can we judge from a kundali how many issues

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > there.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have never gotten a good reading of this

vexing

> > > > issue.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There are things like looking at influence on

5th

> > > > house

> > > > > and 5th

> > > > > > > > > > lord. # male

> > > > > > > > > > > graha influence = # male issues, etc.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Has anyoner done a comprehensive study of this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > P.S. It may be a moot point in this day and age

> > when

> > > > most

> > > > > middel

> > > > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > > > people have no more than two.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >