Retro Lagna!!!

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

I am furnishing below an edited version of a personal conversaion,

with the permission of concerned persons. Read, try and expect more

info and discussions on the same in coming days. Chandra hari ji

also agreed to participate in this discussion, once he is back from

the tour. i.e. By around Sunday or monday. As you know, he is the

Astronomy specialist of my astrolgy friends. . I am none to comment

on this issue. But it is a beutiful subject - Follow it with

attention. For reading conveniance, I am giving the converation from

top, to bottom order. Expect the flashing light on some unexplored

corners of Pancha sidhantika by Mihira, in comming days. And

enjoy!!!

------------------------------

<vernalagnia wrote (to Sreenadh)

Dear Sree,

 

You'll probably remember my mentioning that I'd broached the retro

lagna topic, somewhat unwittingly, in another forum. Expectedly, the

air there has descended to the personal. When I chucked astrology

itself more than a year ago, it had as much to do with the people in

it as much as my apathy towards it.

 

Anyway, you come as a whiff of welcome fresh air and I'll potter

around in your Group, .....

 

.............., just cast a chart for a native born, say, today the

12th of May 2006 in that same place Murmansk at about 1.40 am. I'm

attaching the said file, presuming you're using Jagannatha Hora too,

like I do. If you keep increasing the birth time, you'll actually

find the lagna moving backwards, which is all purely astronomical and

correct too...

 

Keep the good work going, buddy. .........

 

Yours respectfully,

++

 

 

 

Birth Data

Ritro_Lagna

 

Natal Chart

 

May 12, 2006

Time: 1:40:00 am

Time Zone: 3:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 32 E 26' 00 " , 69 N 23' 00 "

Murmansk-150, Russia

Altitude: 5.00 meters

 

Lunar Yr-Mo: Vyaya - Vaisakha

Tithi: Sukla Chaturdasi (Ve) (31.35% left)

Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

Nakshatra: Swaati (Ra) (64.58% left)

Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (60.95% left)

Karana: Vanija (Ve) (62.70% left)

Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sg)

Mahakala Hora: Mercury (5 min sign: Pi)

Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Mercury)

 

Sunrise: 5:42:24 am (May 9)

Sunset: 1:42:24 am (June 7)

Janma Ghatis: 169.9002

 

Ayanamsa: 23-56-44.17

Sidereal Time: 16:08:01

 

 

====================================== File in Jhd format given below

5

12

2006

1.400000

-3.000000

-32.260000

69.230000

5.000000

-3.000000

-3.000000

0

186

Murmansk-150

Russia

1

 

 

" sree nadh " <sreesog worte (to vernalagnia)

Re: That retro lagna thing

" Energumen " <vernalagnia

 

Dear Friend,

Now you need to teach me!! I was awe stuck when I saw that between

5.30 and 5.31 the lagna is jumping the whole 180 deg in a flash!! I

hope it is not the problem with JHora since you mentioned that " which

is all purely astronomical and correct too... " . But how and why it is

happening, could you explain the astronomical reasons to me?

.......................

Love,

Sreenadh

 

" sree nadh " <sreesog wrote (to Chandra Hari)

 

Dear Hari,

See the letter that came to me and the attached charts. In the

same chart, put BT as 5.30 AM and 5.31 AM and see how in JHora the

Lagna jumps diagonally 180 deg in a flash!! What is the problem? If

the software is right, what is the astronomical reason. Please

educate.

Love,

Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar All

 

I'll give you a clue. During Northern Hemisphere Summer if you stand at

the North Pole, what will be the rising sign? During Summer in Southern

Hemisphere is you stand at the South Pole, what will be the rising sign?

 

Think about it. More later.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

Dear all,

I am furnishing below an edited version of a personal conversaion,

with the permission of concerned persons. Read, try and expect more

info and discussions on the same in coming days. Chandra hari ji

also agreed to participate in this discussion, once he is back from

the tour. i.e. By around Sunday or monday. As you know, he is the

Astronomy specialist of my astrolgy friends. . I am none to comment

on this issue. But it is a beutiful subject - Follow it with

attention. For reading conveniance, I am giving the converation from

top, to bottom order. Expect the flashing light on some unexplored

corners of Pancha sidhantika by Mihira, in comming days. And

enjoy!!!

------------------------------

<vernalagnia wrote (to Sreenadh)

Dear Sree,

 

You'll probably remember my mentioning that I'd broached the retro

lagna topic, somewhat unwittingly, in another forum. Expectedly, the

air there has descended to the personal. When I chucked astrology

itself more than a year ago, it had as much to do with the people in

it as much as my apathy towards it.

 

Anyway, you come as a whiff of welcome fresh air and I'll potter

around in your Group, .....

 

.............., just cast a chart for a native born, say, today the

12th of May 2006 in that same place Murmansk at about 1.40 am. I'm

attaching the said file, presuming you're using Jagannatha Hora too,

like I do. If you keep increasing the birth time, you'll actually

find the lagna moving backwards, which is all purely astronomical and

correct too...

 

Keep the good work going, buddy. .........

 

Yours respectfully,

++

 

 

 

Birth Data

Ritro_Lagna

 

Natal Chart

 

May 12, 2006

Time: 1:40:00 am

Time Zone: 3:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 32 E 26' 00 " , 69 N 23' 00 "

Murmansk-150, Russia

Altitude: 5.00 meters

 

Lunar Yr-Mo: Vyaya - Vaisakha

Tithi: Sukla Chaturdasi (Ve) (31.35% left)

Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

Nakshatra: Swaati (Ra) (64.58% left)

Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (60.95% left)

Karana: Vanija (Ve) (62.70% left)

Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sg)

Mahakala Hora: Mercury (5 min sign: Pi)

Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Mercury)

 

Sunrise: 5:42:24 am (May 9)

Sunset: 1:42:24 am (June 7)

Janma Ghatis: 169.9002

 

Ayanamsa: 23-56-44.17

Sidereal Time: 16:08:01

 

 

====================================== File in Jhd format given below

5

12

2006

1.400000

-3.000000

-32.260000

69.230000

5.000000

-3.000000

-3.000000

0

186

Murmansk-150

Russia

1

 

 

" sree nadh " <sreesog worte (to vernalagnia)

Re: That retro lagna thing

" Energumen " <vernalagnia

Dear Friend,

Now you need to teach me!! I was awe stuck when I saw that between

5.30 and 5.31 the lagna is jumping the whole 180 deg in a flash!! I

hope it is not the problem with JHora since you mentioned that " which

is all purely astronomical and correct too... " . But how and why it is

happening, could you explain the astronomical reasons to me?

.......................

Love,

Sreenadh

 

" sree nadh " <sreesog wrote (to Chandra Hari)

 

Dear Hari,

See the letter that came to me and the attached charts. In the

same chart, put BT as 5.30 AM and 5.31 AM and see how in JHora the

Lagna jumps diagonally 180 deg in a flash!! What is the problem? If

the software is right, what is the astronomical reason. Please

educate.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

I am posting this message he wrote to me on the forum with his

permission.[edited version]

===================================================================

 

vernalagnia. wrote to Sreenadh

===================================

Hi Sree,

 

Please feel free to post it on a forum. .........you'll recall that

post on East

 

......... your response, led to a study trip on the lagna. I chose

three locations for the observations †" Kampala in Uganda, Ushuaia

in Chile and Inuvit in Canada. Kampala is chosen because it's on the

equator, and Inuvik and Ushuaia are the the northernmost and

southernmost pockets of civilization that I've heard of.

 

I picked the two solstices for study †" June 21st and the popular

marriage date of December 21st

 

Let's just run through the times of the lagnas in the various houses

on these two dates, for each of the three locations chosen.

 

Kampala:

 

a. June 21st

 

Sunrise †" 06:50, with Sun in Gemini

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Gemini 06:26 to 08.35 2:09

Cancer 08:35 to 10:35 2:00

Leo 10:35 to 12:28 1:53

Virgo 12:28 to 14:18 1:50

Libra 14:18 to 16:15 1:57

Scorpio 16:15 to 18:22 2:07

Sagittarius 18:22 to 20.31 2:09

Capricorn 20.31 to 22:33 2:02

Aquarius 22:33 to 00:25 1:52 (22nd June)

Pisces 00:25 to 02:16 1:51

Aries 02:16 to 04:14 1:58

Taurus 04:14 to 06:21 2:07

 

b. December 21st:

 

Sunrise †" 06:45, with Sun in Sagittarius

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Sagittarius 06:22 to 08:31 2:09

Capricorn 08:31 to 10:33 2:02

Aquarius 10:33 to 12:26 1:53

Pisces 12:26 to 14:17 1:51

Aries 14:17 to 16:14 1:57

Taurus 16:14 to 18:21 2:07

Gemini 18:21 to 20.30 2:09

Cancer 20:30 to 22:32 2:02

Leo 22:32 to 00:24 1:52 (22nd December)

Virgo 00:24 to 02:14 1:50

Libra 02:14 to 04:11 1:57

Scorpio 04:11 to 06:18 2:07

 

Ushuaia:

 

a. June 21st

 

Sunrise †" 10:05, with Sun in Gemini

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Gemini 09:37 to 11.30 1:53

Cancer 11:30 to 12:39 1:09

Leo 12:39 to 13:27 0:48

Virgo 13:27 to 14:12 0:45

Libra 14:12 to 15:10 0:58

Scorpio 15:10 to 16:43 1:33

Sagittarius 16:43 to 19.07 2:24

Capricorn 19:07 to 22:02 2:55

Aquarius 22:02 to 00:59 2:57 (22nd June)

Pisces 00:59 to 03:55 2:56

Aries 03:55 to 06:52 2:57

Taurus 06:52 to 09:33 2:41

 

b. December 21st:

 

Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Sagittarius 04:43 to 07:08 2:25

Capricorn 07:08 to 10:02 2:54

Aquarius 10:02 to 12:59 2:57

Pisces 12:59 to 15:55 2:56

Aries 15:55 to 18:52 2:57

Taurus 18:52 to 21:33 2:41

Gemini 21:33 to 23.27 1:54

Cancer 23:27 to 00:36 1:09 (22nd December)

Leo 00:36 to 01:24 0:48

Virgo 01:24 to 02:09 0:45

Libra 02:09 to 03:06 0:57

Scorpio 03:06 to 04:39 1:33

 

Inuvik:

 

a. June 21st

 

Sunrise †" 02:45, with Sun in Gemini

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Gemini 04:30 to 05.20 0:50

Cancer 05:20 to 10:10 3:50

Leo 10:10 to 14:07 3:57

Virgo 14:07 to 17:59 3:52

Libra 17:59 to 22:14 4:15

Scorpio 22:14 to 01:17 2:57 (22nd June) (the lagna

progresses only until 14 Sc)

Taurus 01:17 to 02.23 1:06 (the lagna retrogrades from 14

Ta)

Aries 02:23 to 02:43 0:20 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Pisces 02:43 to 02:53 0:10 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Aquarius 02:53 to 03:05 0:12 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Capricorn 03:05 to 03:52 0:47 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Sagittarius 03:52 to 04:25 0:33 (retrogrades till 28 Sg,

virtually stationary)

 

b. December 21st:

 

Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

 

 

Sign Time Duration

Gemini 15:30 to 16:21 0:51 (20th December) (from 28 Gemini,

virtually stationary)

Cancer 16:21 to 21:10 4:49

Leo 21:10 to 01:08 3:58 (21st December)

Virgo 01:08 to 05:00 3:52

Libra 05:00 to 09:14 4:14

Scorpio 09:14 to 12:18 3:04 (the lagna progresses only until

14 Scorpio)

Taurus 12:18 to 13.23 1:05 (the lagna retrogrades from 14

Taurus)

Aries 13:23 to 13:44 0:21 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Pisces 13:44 to 13:54 0:10 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Aquarius 13:54 to 14:07 0:13 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Capricorn 14:07 to 14:53 0:46 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

 

Sagittarius 14:53 to 15:26 0:33 (retrogrades till 28

Sagittarius, virtually stationary)

 

That the problem is accentuated towards the northern hemisphere is

clear and easy to see. The southern hemisphere is generally hotter in

summers because it is about 6% closer to the Sun; hence more prone to

stuff like melanoma and ozone layer ruptures.

 

The retrogression of the lagna in Inuvik was what I was referring to.

I've magnified what I was trying to say by selecting for observation

the winter solstice, because that solstice will be occurring in the

southern hemisphere and the northern portion at the head of the

sphere will have the ecliptic nearly matching the horizon. Now you

know why the lagna does a three-zodiac retrograde run in about fifty

minutes shortly after the jump from southern Scorpio to northern

Taurus, almost like in bheeta avastha

 

One other small feature you'll infer is that about 30 degrees of the

zodiac †" the latter halves of Scorpio and Taurus, and nearly the

whole of Gemini and Sagittarius can never be the lagna

 

This discontinuity of the lagna at a certain moment can only occur in

polar regions that are deeply tilted. Initially, the ecliptic is in

the east. In the course of the day, it will move southwards along the

horizon, until it is eventually situated in the south. At the very

next moment, it will then " jump " to the north. If you consider the

ecliptic as a 16â€`degree strip, you'll probably agree that at any

point of time, there will be one part of the ecliptic rising, with a

diametrically opposite part of the ecliptic setting. There will be a

turning point when the rising part begins to set, and the setting

part begins to rise (this will be the intersection points of the

central meridian with the horizontal horizon). These two properties

cause the discontinuity: the lagna can " jump " to the opposite part of

the sky, instantaneously, as indeed you can see in the table for

Inuvik

 

If you concur that at any moment, there are two intersection points

of the ecliptic with the horizon, you'll see where my Q of the other

day, of what exactly East was, came from. East could be the distance

between the vernal equinox and intersection of the ecliptic with the

horizon, but then that'll throw up a whole can of worms on what we

should consider the lagna.

 

The lagna in Inuvik has very varied durations in the various rasis. A

larger figure I think indicates that more of the ecliptic is above

the horizon. If the figure increases with time, my surmise is that

more of the ecliptic goes above the horizon. This means that the

intersection point of the ecliptic is being considered is rising.

Likewise, if the figure decreases, more of the ecliptic goes below

the horizon, and the point is setting. Mathematically, there will be

a point when the rising and setting portions coincide equally, before

rising turns into setting. If I'm not mistaken, this should occur at

the point where the ecliptic, the horizon and the central meridian

intersect. If this intersection point in the south begins to set, the

mirror point in the north should start to rise. Ultimately, this

would mean that the lagna has " jumped " from the south to the north;

hence, the discontinuity of lagna… or so I think

 

Sorry that this turned out to be more discursive than planned

............

 

++

===================================================================

 

, " Bharat Hindu

Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar All

>

> I'll give you a clue. During Northern Hemisphere Summer if you

stand at the

> North Pole, what will be the rising sign? During Summer in Southern

> Hemisphere is you stand at the South Pole, what will be the rising

sign?

>

> Think about it. More later.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> > I am furnishing below an edited version of a personal conversaion,

> > with the permission of concerned persons. Read, try and expect

more

> > info and discussions on the same in coming days. Chandra hari

ji

> > also agreed to participate in this discussion, once he is back

from

> > the tour. i.e. By around Sunday or monday. As you know, he is the

> > Astronomy specialist of my astrolgy friends. . I am none to

comment

> > on this issue. But it is a beutiful subject - Follow it with

> > attention. For reading conveniance, I am giving the converation

from

> > top, to bottom order. Expect the flashing light on some unexplored

> > corners of Pancha sidhantika by Mihira, in comming days. And

> > enjoy!!!

> > ------------------------------

> > <vernalagnia wrote (to Sreenadh)

> > Dear Sree,

> >

> > You'll probably remember my mentioning that I'd broached the retro

> > lagna topic, somewhat unwittingly, in another forum. Expectedly,

the

> > air there has descended to the personal. When I chucked astrology

> > itself more than a year ago, it had as much to do with the people

in

> > it as much as my apathy towards it.

> >

> > Anyway, you come as a whiff of welcome fresh air and I'll potter

> > around in your Group, .....

> >

> > ............., just cast a chart for a native born, say, today the

> > 12th of May 2006 in that same place Murmansk at about 1.40 am. I'm

> > attaching the said file, presuming you're using Jagannatha Hora

too,

> > like I do. If you keep increasing the birth time, you'll actually

> > find the lagna moving backwards, which is all purely astronomical

and

> > correct too...

> >

> > Keep the good work going, buddy. .........

> >

> > Yours respectfully,

> > ++

> >

> >

> >

> > Birth Data

> > Ritro_Lagna

> >

> > Natal Chart

> >

> > May 12, 2006

> > Time: 1:40:00 am

> > Time Zone: 3:00:00 (East of GMT)

> > Place: 32 E 26' 00 " , 69 N 23' 00 "

> > Murmansk-150, Russia

> > Altitude: 5.00 meters

> >

> > Lunar Yr-Mo: Vyaya - Vaisakha

> > Tithi: Sukla Chaturdasi (Ve) (31.35% left)

> > Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

> > Nakshatra: Swaati (Ra) (64.58% left)

> > Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (60.95% left)

> > Karana: Vanija (Ve) (62.70% left)

> > Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sg)

> > Mahakala Hora: Mercury (5 min sign: Pi)

> > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Mercury)

> >

> > Sunrise: 5:42:24 am (May 9)

> > Sunset: 1:42:24 am (June 7)

> > Janma Ghatis: 169.9002

> >

> > Ayanamsa: 23-56-44.17

> > Sidereal Time: 16:08:01

> >

> >

> > ====================================== File in Jhd format given

below

> > 5

> > 12

> > 2006

> > 1.400000

> > -3.000000

> > -32.260000

> > 69.230000

> > 5.000000

> > -3.000000

> > -3.000000

> > 0

> > 186

> > Murmansk-150

> > Russia

> > 1

> >

> >

> > " sree nadh " <sreesog worte (to vernalagnia)

> > Re: That retro lagna thing

> > " Energumen " <vernalagnia

> >

> > Dear Friend,

> > Now you need to teach me!! I was awe stuck when I saw that

between

> > 5.30 and 5.31 the lagna is jumping the whole 180 deg in a flash!!

I

> > hope it is not the problem with JHora since you mentioned

that " which

> > is all purely astronomical and correct too... " . But how and why

it is

> > happening, could you explain the astronomical reasons to me?

> > ......................

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > " sree nadh " <sreesog wrote (to Chandra Hari)

> >

> > Dear Hari,

> > See the letter that came to me and the attached charts. In

the

> > same chart, put BT as 5.30 AM and 5.31 AM and see how in JHora the

> > Lagna jumps diagonally 180 deg in a flash!! What is the problem?

If

> > the software is right, what is the astronomical reason. Please

> > educate.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Wow!

 

Sometime back on Souvik's forum this question was raised, i.e., what

would happen if birth took place on the north pole? How would one

determine the lagna?

 

This was in the context of rotation of the earth, why lagna is

determined as the sign rising on the eastern horizon, etc.

 

The speed of rotation of the earth is obviously maximum at the

equator - but is it stationary at the poles?

 

And then 21st June and 21st January has special significance because

the sun never sets and the sun never rises...on the eastern horizon.

 

The answers that i was given for this were as follows:

 

1.East is a mathematical point - it does not have anything to do

with sun or a sign rising in the east.

 

2. Births do not take place at the poles - it would be very

difficult to caste horoscope of such persons!!!;)

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear All,

> I am posting this message he wrote to me on the forum with his

> permission.[edited version]

> ===================================================================

>

> vernalagnia@ wrote to Sreenadh

> ===================================

> Hi Sree,

>

> Please feel free to post it on a forum. .........you'll recall

that

> post on East

>

> ........ your response, led to a study trip on the lagna. I chose

> three locations for the observations †" Kampala in Uganda,

Ushuaia

> in Chile and Inuvit in Canada. Kampala is chosen because it's on

the

> equator, and Inuvik and Ushuaia are the the northernmost and

> southernmost pockets of civilization that I've heard of.

>  

> I picked the two solstices for study †" June 21st and the popular

> marriage date of December 21st

>  

> Let's just run through the times of the lagnas in the various

houses

> on these two dates, for each of the three locations chosen.

>  

> Kampala:

>  

> a. June 21st

>  

> Sunrise †" 06:50, with Sun in Gemini

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 06:26 to 08.35 2:09

> Cancer 08:35 to 10:35 2:00

> Leo 10:35 to 12:28 1:53

> Virgo 12:28 to 14:18 1:50

> Libra 14:18 to 16:15 1:57

> Scorpio 16:15 to 18:22 2:07

> Sagittarius 18:22 to 20.31 2:09

> Capricorn 20.31 to 22:33 2:02

> Aquarius 22:33 to 00:25 1:52 (22nd June)

> Pisces 00:25 to 02:16 1:51

> Aries 02:16 to 04:14 1:58

> Taurus 04:14 to 06:21 2:07

>  

> b. December 21st:

>  

> Sunrise †" 06:45, with Sun in Sagittarius

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Sagittarius 06:22 to 08:31 2:09

> Capricorn 08:31 to 10:33 2:02

> Aquarius 10:33 to 12:26 1:53

> Pisces 12:26 to 14:17 1:51

> Aries 14:17 to 16:14 1:57

> Taurus 16:14 to 18:21 2:07

> Gemini 18:21 to 20.30 2:09

> Cancer 20:30 to 22:32 2:02

> Leo 22:32 to 00:24 1:52 (22nd December)

> Virgo 00:24 to 02:14 1:50

> Libra 02:14 to 04:11 1:57

> Scorpio 04:11 to 06:18 2:07

>  

> Ushuaia:

>  

> a. June 21st

>  

> Sunrise †" 10:05, with Sun in Gemini

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 09:37 to 11.30 1:53

> Cancer 11:30 to 12:39 1:09

> Leo 12:39 to 13:27 0:48

> Virgo 13:27 to 14:12 0:45

> Libra 14:12 to 15:10 0:58

> Scorpio 15:10 to 16:43 1:33

> Sagittarius 16:43 to 19.07 2:24

> Capricorn 19:07 to 22:02 2:55

> Aquarius 22:02 to 00:59 2:57 (22nd June)

> Pisces 00:59 to 03:55 2:56

> Aries 03:55 to 06:52 2:57

> Taurus 06:52 to 09:33 2:41

>  

> b. December 21st:

>  

> Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Sagittarius 04:43 to 07:08 2:25

> Capricorn 07:08 to 10:02 2:54

> Aquarius 10:02 to 12:59 2:57

> Pisces 12:59 to 15:55 2:56

> Aries 15:55 to 18:52 2:57

> Taurus 18:52 to 21:33 2:41

> Gemini 21:33 to 23.27 1:54

> Cancer 23:27 to 00:36 1:09 (22nd December)

> Leo 00:36 to 01:24 0:48

> Virgo 01:24 to 02:09 0:45

> Libra 02:09 to 03:06 0:57

> Scorpio 03:06 to 04:39 1:33

>  

> Inuvik:

>  

> a. June 21st

>  

> Sunrise †" 02:45, with Sun in Gemini

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 04:30 to 05.20 0:50

> Cancer 05:20 to 10:10 3:50

> Leo 10:10 to 14:07 3:57

> Virgo 14:07 to 17:59 3:52

> Libra 17:59 to 22:14 4:15

> Scorpio 22:14 to 01:17 2:57 (22nd June) (the lagna

> progresses only until 14 Sc)

> Taurus 01:17 to 02.23 1:06 (the lagna retrogrades

from 14

> Ta)

> Aries 02:23 to 02:43 0:20 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Pisces 02:43 to 02:53 0:10 (retrogrades the 30

degrees)

>

> Aquarius 02:53 to 03:05 0:12 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Capricorn 03:05 to 03:52 0:47 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Sagittarius 03:52 to 04:25 0:33 (retrogrades till 28 Sg,

> virtually stationary)

>  

> b. December 21st:

>  

> Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

>  

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 15:30 to 16:21 0:51 (20th December) (from

28 Gemini,

> virtually stationary)

> Cancer 16:21 to 21:10 4:49

> Leo 21:10 to 01:08 3:58 (21st December)

> Virgo 01:08 to 05:00 3:52

> Libra 05:00 to 09:14 4:14

> Scorpio 09:14 to 12:18 3:04 (the lagna progresses

only until

> 14 Scorpio)

> Taurus 12:18 to 13.23 1:05 (the lagna retrogrades

from 14

> Taurus)

> Aries 13:23 to 13:44 0:21 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Pisces 13:44 to 13:54 0:10 (retrogrades the 30

degrees)

>

> Aquarius 13:54 to 14:07 0:13 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Capricorn 14:07 to 14:53 0:46 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Sagittarius 14:53 to 15:26 0:33 (retrogrades till 28

> Sagittarius, virtually stationary)

>  

> That the problem is accentuated towards the northern hemisphere is

> clear and easy to see. The southern hemisphere is generally hotter

in

> summers because it is about 6% closer to the Sun; hence more prone

to

> stuff like melanoma and ozone layer ruptures.

>  

> The retrogression of the lagna in Inuvik was what I was referring

to.

> I've magnified what I was trying to say by selecting for

observation

> the winter solstice, because that solstice will be occurring in

the

> southern hemisphere and the northern portion at the head of the

> sphere will have the ecliptic nearly matching the horizon. Now you

> know why the lagna does a three-zodiac retrograde run in about

fifty

> minutes shortly after the jump from southern Scorpio to northern

> Taurus, almost like in bheeta avastha

>  

> One other small feature you'll infer is that about 30 degrees of

the

> zodiac †" the latter halves of Scorpio and Taurus, and nearly the

> whole of Gemini and Sagittarius can never be the lagna

>  

> This discontinuity of the lagna at a certain moment can only occur

in

> polar regions that are deeply tilted. Initially, the ecliptic is

in

> the east. In the course of the day, it will move southwards along

the

> horizon, until it is eventually situated in the south. At the very

> next moment, it will then " jump " to the north. If you consider the

> ecliptic as a 16â€`degree strip, you'll probably agree that at any

> point of time, there will be one part of the ecliptic rising, with

a

> diametrically opposite part of the ecliptic setting. There will be

a

> turning point when the rising part begins to set, and the setting

> part begins to rise (this will be the intersection points of the

> central meridian with the horizontal horizon). These two

properties

> cause the discontinuity: the lagna can " jump " to the opposite part

of

> the sky, instantaneously, as indeed you can see in the table for

> Inuvik

>

> If you concur that at any moment, there are two intersection

points

> of the ecliptic with the horizon, you'll see where my Q of the

other

> day, of what exactly East was, came from. East could be the

distance

> between the vernal equinox and intersection of the ecliptic with

the

> horizon, but then that'll throw up a whole can of worms on what we

> should consider the lagna.

>

> The lagna in Inuvik has very varied durations in the various

rasis. A

> larger figure I think indicates that more of the ecliptic is above

> the horizon. If the figure increases with time, my surmise is that

> more of the ecliptic goes above the horizon. This means that the

> intersection point of the ecliptic is being considered is rising.

> Likewise, if the figure decreases, more of the ecliptic goes below

> the horizon, and the point is setting. Mathematically, there will

be

> a point when the rising and setting portions coincide equally,

before

> rising turns into setting. If I'm not mistaken, this should occur

at

> the point where the ecliptic, the horizon and the central meridian

> intersect. If this intersection point in the south begins to set,

the

> mirror point in the north should start to rise. Ultimately, this

> would mean that the lagna has " jumped " from the south to the

north;

> hence, the discontinuity of lagna… or so I think

>  

> Sorry that this turned out to be more discursive than planned

> ...........

>

> ++

> ===================================================================

>

> , " Bharat Hindu

> Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaskaar All

> >

> > I'll give you a clue. During Northern Hemisphere Summer if you

> stand at the

> > North Pole, what will be the rising sign? During Summer in

Southern

> > Hemisphere is you stand at the South Pole, what will be the

rising

> sign?

> >

> > Think about it. More later.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > > I am furnishing below an edited version of a personal

conversaion,

> > > with the permission of concerned persons. Read, try and expect

> more

> > > info and discussions on the same in coming days. Chandra

hari

> ji

> > > also agreed to participate in this discussion, once he is back

> from

> > > the tour. i.e. By around Sunday or monday. As you know, he is

the

> > > Astronomy specialist of my astrolgy friends. . I am none to

> comment

> > > on this issue. But it is a beutiful subject - Follow it with

> > > attention. For reading conveniance, I am giving the

converation

> from

> > > top, to bottom order. Expect the flashing light on some

unexplored

> > > corners of Pancha sidhantika by Mihira, in comming days. And

> > > enjoy!!!

> > > ------------------------------

> > > <vernalagnia@> wrote (to Sreenadh)

> > > Dear Sree,

> > >

> > > You'll probably remember my mentioning that I'd broached the

retro

> > > lagna topic, somewhat unwittingly, in another forum.

Expectedly,

> the

> > > air there has descended to the personal. When I chucked

astrology

> > > itself more than a year ago, it had as much to do with the

people

> in

> > > it as much as my apathy towards it.

> > >

> > > Anyway, you come as a whiff of welcome fresh air and I'll

potter

> > > around in your Group, .....

> > >

> > > ............., just cast a chart for a native born, say, today

the

> > > 12th of May 2006 in that same place Murmansk at about 1.40 am.

I'm

> > > attaching the said file, presuming you're using Jagannatha

Hora

> too,

> > > like I do. If you keep increasing the birth time, you'll

actually

> > > find the lagna moving backwards, which is all purely

astronomical

> and

> > > correct too...

> > >

> > > Keep the good work going, buddy. .........

> > >

> > > Yours respectfully,

> > > ++

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Birth Data

> > > Ritro_Lagna

> > >

> > > Natal Chart

> > >

> > > May 12, 2006

> > > Time: 1:40:00 am

> > > Time Zone: 3:00:00 (East of GMT)

> > > Place: 32 E 26' 00 " , 69 N 23' 00 "

> > > Murmansk-150, Russia

> > > Altitude: 5.00 meters

> > >

> > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Vyaya - Vaisakha

> > > Tithi: Sukla Chaturdasi (Ve) (31.35% left)

> > > Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

> > > Nakshatra: Swaati (Ra) (64.58% left)

> > > Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (60.95% left)

> > > Karana: Vanija (Ve) (62.70% left)

> > > Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sg)

> > > Mahakala Hora: Mercury (5 min sign: Pi)

> > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Mercury)

> > >

> > > Sunrise: 5:42:24 am (May 9)

> > > Sunset: 1:42:24 am (June 7)

> > > Janma Ghatis: 169.9002

> > >

> > > Ayanamsa: 23-56-44.17

> > > Sidereal Time: 16:08:01

> > >

> > >

> > > ====================================== File in Jhd format

given

> below

> > > 5

> > > 12

> > > 2006

> > > 1.400000

> > > -3.000000

> > > -32.260000

> > > 69.230000

> > > 5.000000

> > > -3.000000

> > > -3.000000

> > > 0

> > > 186

> > > Murmansk-150

> > > Russia

> > > 1

> > >

> > >

> > > " sree nadh " <sreesog@> worte (to vernalagnia)

> > > Re: That retro lagna thing

> > > " Energumen " <vernalagnia@>

> > >

> > > Dear Friend,

> > > Now you need to teach me!! I was awe stuck when I saw that

> between

> > > 5.30 and 5.31 the lagna is jumping the whole 180 deg in a

flash!!

> I

> > > hope it is not the problem with JHora since you mentioned

> that " which

> > > is all purely astronomical and correct too... " . But how and

why

> it is

> > > happening, could you explain the astronomical reasons to me?

> > > ......................

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > " sree nadh " <sreesog@> wrote (to Chandra Hari)

> > >

> > > Dear Hari,

> > > See the letter that came to me and the attached charts.

In

> the

> > > same chart, put BT as 5.30 AM and 5.31 AM and see how in JHora

the

> > > Lagna jumps diagonally 180 deg in a flash!! What is the

problem?

> If

> > > the software is right, what is the astronomical reason. Please

> > > educate.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Sometime back on Souvik's forum this question was raised,

 

 

The first time that this was brought up in an astro Group was in mine,

in 2004, but that's unrelated to the subject at hand

 

> would happen if birth took place on the north pole? How would one

> determine the lagna?

 

 

Not many have thought of this situation simply because there aren't

many out there beyond 64N

(http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/money_politics_law/world_population_distribution.\

htm).

And the ones that are, aren't much fascinated by astro

 

 

But I want you to get even more out of the box. What if one of those

Russian cosmonauts who hang around for months in orbiting space

stations did something silly and went on to deliver a child there? I

wouldn't want to draw up that horrorscope

 

 

> This was in the context of rotation of the earth, why lagna is

> determined as the sign rising on the eastern horizon, etc.

 

If at all... the ecliptic is but a 22-degree band although it can be

argued that the limits of the zodiac can be extended infinitely. I

don't know whether that line would or wouldn't be tenuous since no

planet can ever figure in portions beyond the 22-degree band.

 

 

 

> The speed of rotation of the earth is obviously maximum at the

> equator - but is it stationary at the poles?

 

It is. It has to be. The concept of a sphere and our life on the

surface of such sphere is often lost on us living in Mumbai or Kochi.

 

If you walked five steps south from the north pole, turned west and

did the same and then turned north for another five steps, you'll be

back at the north pole. Do that where you are and you'll end up at

your neighbor's place

 

 

> And then 21st June and 21st January has special significance because

> the sun never sets and the sun never rises...on the eastern horizon.

 

Yep, 21st June is the longest day, which is why Dec 21st is such a

popular wedding date

 

 

> The answers that i was given for this were as follows:

>

> 2. Births do not take place at the poles - it would be very

> difficult to caste horoscope of such persons!!!;)

 

Say that in seriousness and astrology's credibility would be massively

eroded. Reminds me of a career that I had in my youth as a sport

referee, when I couldn't stop thinking of all possible situations,

driving my seniors up the wall. Result? I got two laws of the game

changed

 

Understanding improbable situations pushes the envelop of

understanding itself

 

+++

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri VinitaEven on the North Pole due to the slight tilt of the Axis of the Earth, two signs will rise in the whole day. They will be totally opposite to each other. Try this small exercise..Use this data:

June 21, 2006, O West, 90 NTime: 6 hrs 2 minutes 47 secondsThen change the time to 6 hours 2 minutes 48 seconds. Enjoy the difference :)Sri VernaOn earth, we can still think of a horoscope. But when we go out in space, what should we do. What I would probably do is, 1. take the orbit of the spacecraft and measure its altitude or distance from the orbit of Earth. 2. Take the perspective view based on the distance of the orbit of the spacecraft vis-a-vis the diameter of the Earth

and position of the Sun. 3. If the spacecraft is not over the Artic region and the distance of the orbit is not greater than the diameter of Earth, then it would not be difficult to draw the horoscope. However, if it is flying over the Artic Circle the Earth will not cast must of a shadow and cause retrogression of the Lagna.

I do not know if Jhora can do this properly, if we increase the Altitude to let's say 700,000 Kms. It'll be an interesting exercise. Now, what if a person is born on Mars? If that happens, I guess new rules will have to be formulated for Earth as a graha. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 5/18/06, vinita kumar <shankar_mamta wrote:

 

Wow!

 

Sometime back on Souvik's forum this question was raised, i.e., what

would happen if birth took place on the north pole? How would one

determine the lagna?

 

This was in the context of rotation of the earth, why lagna is

determined as the sign rising on the eastern horizon, etc.

 

The speed of rotation of the earth is obviously maximum at the

equator - but is it stationary at the poles?

 

And then 21st June and 21st January has special significance because

the sun never sets and the sun never rises...on the eastern horizon.

 

The answers that i was given for this were as follows:

 

1.East is a mathematical point - it does not have anything to do

with sun or a sign rising in the east.

 

2. Births do not take place at the poles - it would be very

difficult to caste horoscope of such persons!!!;)

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

 

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear All,

> I am posting this message he wrote to me on the forum with his

> permission.[edited version]

> ===================================================================

>

> vernalagnia@ wrote to Sreenadh

> ===================================

> Hi Sree,

>

> Please feel free to post it on a forum. .........you'll recall

that

> post on East

>

> ........ your response, led to a study trip on the lagna. I chose

> three locations for the observations †" Kampala in Uganda,

Ushuaia

> in Chile and Inuvit in Canada. Kampala is chosen because it's on

the

> equator, and Inuvik and Ushuaia are the the northernmost and

> southernmost pockets of civilization that I've heard of.

>

> I picked the two solstices for study †" June 21st and the popular

> marriage date of December 21st

>

> Let's just run through the times of the lagnas in the various

houses

> on these two dates, for each of the three locations chosen.

>

> Kampala:

>

> a. June 21st

>

> Sunrise †" 06:50, with Sun in Gemini

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 06:26 to 08.35 2:09

> Cancer 08:35 to 10:35 2:00

> Leo 10:35 to 12:28 1:53

> Virgo 12:28 to 14:18 1:50

> Libra 14:18 to 16:15 1:57

> Scorpio 16:15 to 18:22 2:07

> Sagittarius 18:22 to 20.31 2:09

> Capricorn 20.31 to 22:33 2:02

> Aquarius 22:33 to 00:25 1:52 (22nd June)

> Pisces 00:25 to 02:16 1:51

> Aries 02:16 to 04:14 1:58

> Taurus 04:14 to 06:21 2:07

>

> b. December 21st:

>

> Sunrise †" 06:45, with Sun in Sagittarius

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Sagittarius 06:22 to 08:31 2:09

> Capricorn 08:31 to 10:33 2:02

> Aquarius 10:33 to 12:26 1:53

> Pisces 12:26 to 14:17 1:51

> Aries 14:17 to 16:14 1:57

> Taurus 16:14 to 18:21 2:07

> Gemini 18:21 to 20.30 2:09

> Cancer 20:30 to 22:32 2:02

> Leo 22:32 to 00:24 1:52 (22nd December)

> Virgo 00:24 to 02:14 1:50

> Libra 02:14 to 04:11 1:57

> Scorpio 04:11 to 06:18 2:07

>

> Ushuaia:

>

> a. June 21st

>

> Sunrise †" 10:05, with Sun in Gemini

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 09:37 to 11.30 1:53

> Cancer 11:30 to 12:39 1:09

> Leo 12:39 to 13:27 0:48

> Virgo 13:27 to 14:12 0:45

> Libra 14:12 to 15:10 0:58

> Scorpio 15:10 to 16:43 1:33

> Sagittarius 16:43 to 19.07 2:24

> Capricorn 19:07 to 22:02 2:55

> Aquarius 22:02 to 00:59 2:57 (22nd June)

> Pisces 00:59 to 03:55 2:56

> Aries 03:55 to 06:52 2:57

> Taurus 06:52 to 09:33 2:41

>

> b. December 21st:

>

> Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Sagittarius 04:43 to 07:08 2:25

> Capricorn 07:08 to 10:02 2:54

> Aquarius 10:02 to 12:59 2:57

> Pisces 12:59 to 15:55 2:56

> Aries 15:55 to 18:52 2:57

> Taurus 18:52 to 21:33 2:41

> Gemini 21:33 to 23.27 1:54

> Cancer 23:27 to 00:36 1:09 (22nd December)

> Leo 00:36 to 01:24 0:48

> Virgo 01:24 to 02:09 0:45

> Libra 02:09 to 03:06 0:57

> Scorpio 03:06 to 04:39 1:33

>

> Inuvik:

>

> a. June 21st

>

> Sunrise †" 02:45, with Sun in Gemini

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 04:30 to 05.20 0:50

> Cancer 05:20 to 10:10 3:50

> Leo 10:10 to 14:07 3:57

> Virgo 14:07 to 17:59 3:52

> Libra 17:59 to 22:14 4:15

> Scorpio 22:14 to 01:17 2:57 (22nd June) (the lagna

> progresses only until 14 Sc)

> Taurus 01:17 to 02.23 1:06 (the lagna retrogrades

from 14

> Ta)

> Aries 02:23 to 02:43 0:20 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Pisces 02:43 to 02:53 0:10 (retrogrades the 30

degrees)

>

> Aquarius 02:53 to 03:05 0:12 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Capricorn 03:05 to 03:52 0:47 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Sagittarius 03:52 to 04:25 0:33 (retrogrades till 28 Sg,

> virtually stationary)

>

> b. December 21st:

>

> Sunrise †" 12:05, with Sun in Sagittarius

>

>

> Sign Time Duration

> Gemini 15:30 to 16:21 0:51 (20th December) (from

28 Gemini,

> virtually stationary)

> Cancer 16:21 to 21:10 4:49

> Leo 21:10 to 01:08 3:58 (21st December)

> Virgo 01:08 to 05:00 3:52

> Libra 05:00 to 09:14 4:14

> Scorpio 09:14 to 12:18 3:04 (the lagna progresses

only until

> 14 Scorpio)

> Taurus 12:18 to 13.23 1:05 (the lagna retrogrades

from 14

> Taurus)

> Aries 13:23 to 13:44 0:21 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Pisces 13:44 to 13:54 0:10 (retrogrades the 30

degrees)

>

> Aquarius 13:54 to 14:07 0:13 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Capricorn 14:07 to 14:53 0:46 (retrogrades the 30 degrees)

>

> Sagittarius 14:53 to 15:26 0:33 (retrogrades till 28

> Sagittarius, virtually stationary)

>

> That the problem is accentuated towards the northern hemisphere is

> clear and easy to see. The southern hemisphere is generally hotter

in

> summers because it is about 6% closer to the Sun; hence more prone

to

> stuff like melanoma and ozone layer ruptures.

>

> The retrogression of the lagna in Inuvik was what I was referring

to.

> I've magnified what I was trying to say by selecting for

observation

> the winter solstice, because that solstice will be occurring in

the

> southern hemisphere and the northern portion at the head of the

> sphere will have the ecliptic nearly matching the horizon. Now you

> know why the lagna does a three-zodiac retrograde run in about

fifty

> minutes shortly after the jump from southern Scorpio to northern

> Taurus, almost like in bheeta avastha

>

> One other small feature you'll infer is that about 30 degrees of

the

> zodiac †" the latter halves of Scorpio and Taurus, and nearly the

> whole of Gemini and Sagittarius can never be the lagna

>

> This discontinuity of the lagna at a certain moment can only occur

in

> polar regions that are deeply tilted. Initially, the ecliptic is

in

> the east. In the course of the day, it will move southwards along

the

> horizon, until it is eventually situated in the south. At the very

> next moment, it will then " jump " to the north. If you consider the

> ecliptic as a 16â€`degree strip, you'll probably agree that at any

> point of time, there will be one part of the ecliptic rising, with

a

> diametrically opposite part of the ecliptic setting. There will be

a

> turning point when the rising part begins to set, and the setting

> part begins to rise (this will be the intersection points of the

> central meridian with the horizontal horizon). These two

properties

> cause the discontinuity: the lagna can " jump " to the opposite part

of

> the sky, instantaneously, as indeed you can see in the table for

> Inuvik

>

> If you concur that at any moment, there are two intersection

points

> of the ecliptic with the horizon, you'll see where my Q of the

other

> day, of what exactly East was, came from. East could be the

distance

> between the vernal equinox and intersection of the ecliptic with

the

> horizon, but then that'll throw up a whole can of worms on what we

> should consider the lagna.

>

> The lagna in Inuvik has very varied durations in the various

rasis. A

> larger figure I think indicates that more of the ecliptic is above

> the horizon. If the figure increases with time, my surmise is that

> more of the ecliptic goes above the horizon. This means that the

> intersection point of the ecliptic is being considered is rising.

> Likewise, if the figure decreases, more of the ecliptic goes below

> the horizon, and the point is setting. Mathematically, there will

be

> a point when the rising and setting portions coincide equally,

before

> rising turns into setting. If I'm not mistaken, this should occur

at

> the point where the ecliptic, the horizon and the central meridian

> intersect. If this intersection point in the south begins to set,

the

> mirror point in the north should start to rise. Ultimately, this

> would mean that the lagna has " jumped " from the south to the

north;

> hence, the discontinuity of lagna… or so I think

>

> Sorry that this turned out to be more discursive than planned

> ...........

>

> ++

> ===================================================================

>

> , " Bharat Hindu

> Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaskaar All

> >

> > I'll give you a clue. During Northern Hemisphere Summer if you

> stand at the

> > North Pole, what will be the rising sign? During Summer in

Southern

> > Hemisphere is you stand at the South Pole, what will be the

rising

> sign?

> >

> > Think about it. More later.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > > I am furnishing below an edited version of a personal

conversaion,

> > > with the permission of concerned persons. Read, try and expect

> more

> > > info and discussions on the same in coming days. Chandra

hari

> ji

> > > also agreed to participate in this discussion, once he is back

> from

> > > the tour. i.e. By around Sunday or monday. As you know, he is

the

> > > Astronomy specialist of my astrolgy friends. . I am none to

> comment

> > > on this issue. But it is a beutiful subject - Follow it with

> > > attention. For reading conveniance, I am giving the

converation

> from

> > > top, to bottom order. Expect the flashing light on some

unexplored

> > > corners of Pancha sidhantika by Mihira, in comming days. And

> > > enjoy!!!

> > > ------------------------------

> > > <vernalagnia@> wrote (to Sreenadh)

> > > Dear Sree,

> > >

> > > You'll probably remember my mentioning that I'd broached the

retro

> > > lagna topic, somewhat unwittingly, in another forum.

Expectedly,

> the

> > > air there has descended to the personal. When I chucked

astrology

> > > itself more than a year ago, it had as much to do with the

people

> in

> > > it as much as my apathy towards it.

> > >

> > > Anyway, you come as a whiff of welcome fresh air and I'll

potter

> > > around in your Group, .....

> > >

> > > ............., just cast a chart for a native born, say, today

the

> > > 12th of May 2006 in that same place Murmansk at about 1.40 am.

I'm

> > > attaching the said file, presuming you're using Jagannatha

Hora

> too,

> > > like I do. If you keep increasing the birth time, you'll

actually

> > > find the lagna moving backwards, which is all purely

astronomical

> and

> > > correct too...

> > >

> > > Keep the good work going, buddy. .........

> > >

> > > Yours respectfully,

> > > ++

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Birth Data

> > > Ritro_Lagna

> > >

> > > Natal Chart

> > >

> > > May 12, 2006

> > > Time: 1:40:00 am

> > > Time Zone: 3:00:00 (East of GMT)

> > > Place: 32 E 26' 00 " , 69 N 23' 00 "

> > > Murmansk-150, Russia

> > > Altitude: 5.00 meters

> > >

> > > Lunar Yr-Mo: Vyaya - Vaisakha

> > > Tithi: Sukla Chaturdasi (Ve) (31.35% left)

> > > Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

> > > Nakshatra: Swaati (Ra) (64.58% left)

> > > Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (60.95% left)

> > > Karana: Vanija (Ve) (62.70% left)

> > > Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sg)

> > > Mahakala Hora: Mercury (5 min sign: Pi)

> > > Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Mercury)

> > >

> > > Sunrise: 5:42:24 am (May 9)

> > > Sunset: 1:42:24 am (June 7)

> > > Janma Ghatis: 169.9002

> > >

> > > Ayanamsa: 23-56-44.17

> > > Sidereal Time: 16:08:01

> > >

> > >

> > > ====================================== File in Jhd format

given

> below

> > > 5

> > > 12

> > > 2006

> > > 1.400000

> > > -3.000000

> > > -32.260000

> > > 69.230000

> > > 5.000000

> > > -3.000000

> > > -3.000000

> > > 0

> > > 186

> > > Murmansk-150

> > > Russia

> > > 1

> > >

> > >

> > > " sree nadh " <sreesog@> worte (to vernalagnia)

> > > Re: That retro lagna thing

> > > " Energumen " <vernalagnia@>

> > >

> > > Dear Friend,

> > > Now you need to teach me!! I was awe stuck when I saw that

> between

> > > 5.30 and 5.31 the lagna is jumping the whole 180 deg in a

flash!!

> I

> > > hope it is not the problem with JHora since you mentioned

> that " which

> > > is all purely astronomical and correct too... " . But how and

why

> it is

> > > happening, could you explain the astronomical reasons to me?

> > > ......................

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > " sree nadh " <sreesog@> wrote (to Chandra Hari)

> > >

> > > Dear Hari,

> > > See the letter that came to me and the attached charts.

In

> the

> > > same chart, put BT as 5.30 AM and 5.31 AM and see how in JHora

the

> > > Lagna jumps diagonally 180 deg in a flash!! What is the

problem?

> If

> > > the software is right, what is the astronomical reason. Please

> > > educate.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

, " Bharat Hindu

Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote:

>

> It'll be an interesting exercise. Now, what if a person is born on

Mars? If

> that happens, I guess new rules will have to be formulated for Earth

as a

> graha.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

 

 

Dear Bharat,

 

The astro bug came near me first sometime in 2002. The second or the

third post of mine then was on how to interpret gochara results if I

lived on the Moon. There was understandably only silence in response,

of course.

 

Your conjecture is getting closer to what I want an answer to, and

understanding of

 

+++

[Guest guest]

Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation there

looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world, did the ancient

astrologers not foresee this?

 

Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which are

currently populated?

 

So it may not have have universal application to the future race of

human beings???!

 

, " vernalagnia "

<vernalagnia wrote:

>

> , " Bharat Hindu

> Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> >

> > It'll be an interesting exercise. Now, what if a person is born

on

> Mars? If

> > that happens, I guess new rules will have to be formulated for

Earth

> as a

> > graha.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

>

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> The astro bug came near me first sometime in 2002. The second or

the

> third post of mine then was on how to interpret gochara results if

I

> lived on the Moon. There was understandably only silence in

response,

> of course.

>

> Your conjecture is getting closer to what I want an answer to, and

> understanding of

>

> +++

>

[Guest guest]

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation there

> looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world

 

 

Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the superpowers for

a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of time.

 

Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile environment

of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal radiation

once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises: where

are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then

what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for Pluto

would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with their

great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune with

their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so, we are

left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons

of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in enclosed

space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to

travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But

even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?

Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would still

take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming we

could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for

human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very

improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was

suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are designed for

earth and not elsewhere.

 

Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that

exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's psyche, and

thus not really worthwhile at all.

 

 

, did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?

 

They did. And wrote astro for the earth

 

> Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which are

> currently populated?

 

 

Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a science.

 

 

> So it may not have have universal application to the future race of

> human beings???!

 

 

Is this one of those days or are you really serious?

 

+++

[Guest guest]

Dear verna / ayirpamar,

 

I am never serious about such things

 

Love,

Vinita

 

, " vernalagnia "

<vernalagnia wrote:

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation

there

> > looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world

>

>

> Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the superpowers

for

> a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of time.

>

> Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile

environment

> of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal

radiation

> once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises: where

> are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then

> what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for Pluto

> would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with

their

> great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune

with

> their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so, we

are

> left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons

> of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in

enclosed

> space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to

> travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But

> even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?

> Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would

still

> take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming we

> could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for

> human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very

> improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was

> suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are designed

for

> earth and not elsewhere.

>

> Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that

> exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's psyche,

and

> thus not really worthwhile at all.

>

>

> , did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?

>

> They did. And wrote astro for the earth

>

> > Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which

are

> > currently populated?

>

>

> Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a

science.

>

>

> > So it may not have have universal application to the future race

of

> > human beings???!

>

>

> Is this one of those days or are you really serious?

>

> +++

>

[Guest guest]

BTW, space stations exist even now in outer space inhabited not just

by the Americans and the Russians....the team has become more

cosmopolitan now. They spend months out there in space. One need not

necessarily settle on a planet.

 

According to one theory we are descendants of beings from outer

space.

 

The ancient myths...chariots descending from the sky...were nothing

but space ships.

 

The theory of evolution versus intermingling of the gods with the

lesser mortals of the earth?

 

Umpteen examples....in Greek, Roman, Hindu mythology....

 

e.g. in reverse: how did Kunti beget her children?

, " vernalagnia "

<vernalagnia wrote:

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation

there

> > looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world

>

>

> Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the superpowers

for

> a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of time.

>

> Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile

environment

> of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal

radiation

> once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises: where

> are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then

> what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for Pluto

> would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with

their

> great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune

with

> their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so, we

are

> left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons

> of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in

enclosed

> space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to

> travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But

> even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?

> Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would

still

> take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming we

> could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for

> human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very

> improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was

> suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are designed

for

> earth and not elsewhere.

>

> Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that

> exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's psyche,

and

> thus not really worthwhile at all.

>

>

> , did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?

>

> They did. And wrote astro for the earth

>

> > Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which

are

> > currently populated?

>

>

> Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a

science.

>

>

> > So it may not have have universal application to the future race

of

> > human beings???!

>

>

> Is this one of those days or are you really serious?

>

> +++

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

Be slow and study in approaching this retro lagna question. I have a

feeling that it has some fruitful results to give. Many groups might

have discussed this issue - but remember 'we are different', and

a 'true study group'. Inquisitiveness is its foundation - and true

quest never goes unrewarded (by its own destiny).

So be patient, relax, approach questions one by one - and try to

make it a fruitful exercise.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

 

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> BTW, space stations exist even now in outer space inhabited not

just

> by the Americans and the Russians....the team has become more

> cosmopolitan now. They spend months out there in space. One need

not

> necessarily settle on a planet.

>

> According to one theory we are descendants of beings from outer

> space.

>

> The ancient myths...chariots descending from the sky...were nothing

> but space ships.

>

> The theory of evolution versus intermingling of the gods with the

> lesser mortals of the earth?

>

> Umpteen examples....in Greek, Roman, Hindu mythology....

>

> e.g. in reverse: how did Kunti beget her children?

> , " vernalagnia "

> <vernalagnia@> wrote:

> >

> > , " vinita kumar "

> > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation

> there

> > > looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world

> >

> >

> > Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the

superpowers

> for

> > a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of

time.

> >

> > Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile

> environment

> > of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal

> radiation

> > once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises:

where

> > are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then

> > what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for

Pluto

> > would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with

> their

> > great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune

> with

> > their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so,

we

> are

> > left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons

> > of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in

> enclosed

> > space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to

> > travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But

> > even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?

> > Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would

> still

> > take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming

we

> > could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for

> > human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very

> > improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was

> > suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are

designed

> for

> > earth and not elsewhere.

> >

> > Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that

> > exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's

psyche,

> and

> > thus not really worthwhile at all.

> >

> >

> > , did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?

> >

> > They did. And wrote astro for the earth

> >

> > > Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which

> are

> > > currently populated?

> >

> >

> > Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a

> science.

> >

> >

> > > So it may not have have universal application to the future

race

> of

> > > human beings???!

> >

> >

> > Is this one of those days or are you really serious?

> >

> > +++

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh and Pradeep,

 

Relevant details and formula are given below. This can be a case of the routine method of fixing the Lagna failing. But still there must be some way out to fix the Lagna. May be quite easy too. Think over and try...

 

Sky at Higher Latitudes

 

1. There are no directions at the North Pole as East cannot be fixed. Day is decided by the declination of Sun (North or +) and it appears above horizon, circles the sky and then disappears at the same point. So East = West.

2. At the poles altitude of the sun never exceeds the maximum declination of Sun or the obliquity of the Earth's axis = 23.45 degrees now. With 0 declination at Vishu, Sun just touches the horizon and then it spirals round the sky as the altitude goes on increasing to reach maximum height at 23.45 on summer solstice.

3. For all the places in the Polar circle with latitude above 660-33' degrees – the expressions used in astrological software may fail – this is the maximu latitude at which the trigonometry works and it is because of the obliquity of the Earth's axis. See that 90 – 23.45 (obliquity) = 66.55. As the Earth's axis is tilted in space colatitude (90-latitude) = Obliquity.

4. For Lagna see the _expression given in Rasichakram– if you compute Lagna for say 66.55, for Sun at 23.45 degrees and with obliquity as 23.45, u will get Sayana Lagna =89.990. Now if you increase the latitude the Lagna will depend upon the variation of the Tan function and as you increase Latitude to 67, 70, 75, 85, 89.9999 the Lagna will become 89.9999999999999999. It can never give 90 as tan = Sin/Cos and so at 90 Cos 90 = 0 and so Tan = indeterminate. Aryabhata has called the situation as "Asanna_90" means "approaching" 90 = 89.9999999999.

5. After 90 the Tan function is –ve in the 2nd and 4th quadrant so 92 and 272 are the same in terms of function values. So the software has to avoid bugs possible in choosing the quadrants. Bugs can arise due to various reasons. Aries to Kanya, tropical when Sun is north of the Equator, it will be spiraling in the horizon to reach 23.45 altitude at Sayana 90 and then in next three months the altitude goes down to zero.

 

6. Apart from what is said above the rising of signs in the polar circle can be looked at directly in terms of the declination. Ecliptic – sun's path, has declinations like (-)23.45 degrees at Sayana Makara = Nirayana Dhanu 5-6 degrees. So from Vrschikam to Makaram, the sidereal signs have greater south declination which makes the Zenith distance greater than 90 degrees and so they will never rise at certain Latitudes as we go North of 90 – 23.45 = 66.55. (90 – Latitude) is called co-latitude and when declination is greater than this colatitude the body never sets. This is true in both the hemispheres and the one that does not set cannot rise in the other side. So when sun is having a negative declination it does not rise at the Pole. When sun is (-) 23.45 in declination it will be 113.45 in zenith distance at North Pole and it will just graze over the horizon in North Hemisphere when the declination becomes zero at the vernal equinox. As the declination becomes +23.45 with summer solstice, it can be see at 23.45 degree altitude (zenith distance = 66.55) at the pole. So at the pole Sun can be seen only for tropical Aries to Virgo. So other Lagnas cannot be possible. At 66.55 Latitude to have a body to be seen at the horizon we need a zenith distance = or less than 90 and so south or negative declination has to be less than Colatitude 90 – 66.55 = 23.45. Sidereal Dhanu and Makara has south declinations around 20 degree and so beyond 70 degree latitudes, they cannot be seen. Likewise, broadly speaking Vrscika to Kumba has south declination around 12 degrees and so they never rise at latitudes above 90 – 12 = 78 degrees.

 

7. Latitude – Zenith distance = Declination. Pole has an altitude = 90 and zenith distance =0. At Pole where latitude 90, we see the pole at 90 degree. So at latitude F we see the pole at an altitude of F.

 

This is the astronomy behind Lagna computation.

 

· Inuvik is at 68_21 North. Date taken is 21st June when Sun is very near to 90 degree tropical. Sunrise in Jagannatha Hora is 04:08 for 6 hour West of GMT. How he is giving sunrise as 0245, I have no idea. Even the local time cannot be 0245, as I tried to figure out. When someone is giving an astronomical problem he must be specific as what time is indicated and Lat, Long etc. Date given is also wrong when checked with Jhora. What is his reference for the rising time, Lagna and all that he has given?

· Data he gives is true only for 22nd June (Ayanamsa affects when we speak of sidereal and English dates). See on 21st June when Sun was less than 90 degrees, the Lagna given at sunrise was Sagittarius and 22nd June when Sun is 90+ Lagna becomes + by 180. This can be a bug in the software. With positive declination of the Sun, I don't see any reason for such a strange behaviour.

· See why the Lagna progresses only up to 14 Sc = 224 degree = 224+24 = 248 = this is the tropical Longitude. Declination at this point is (–)21.65 = 21039'. See that this declination is 90 – Latitude of Inuvik. At Inuvik the rest of Scorpio cannot rise.

· Now take Taurus 14 = 68 degrees. Here declination is +21.65. But the jump is not correct to my mind. When the point of 90 – South Declination limit is reached say 14 Sc – may be the sun sets there and rises at 180 opposite – in fact east and west can exist only mathematically in polar circle.

· With the formula Tan-(-Cos R/(Cos w*SinR+Sinw*Tan Latitude) where R = 15Xstob, you can workout the details and see how the Tan function influences the computations. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear All,> Be slow and study in approaching this retro lagna question. I have a > feeling that it has some fruitful results to give. Many groups might > have discussed this issue - but remember 'we are different', and > a 'true study group'. Inquisitiveness is its foundation - and true > quest never goes unrewarded (by its own destiny). > So be patient, relax, approach questions one by one - and try to > make it a fruitful exercise. > Love,> Sreenadh> > > , "vinita kumar" > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> >> > BTW, space stations exist even now in outer space inhabited not > just > > by the Americans and the Russians....the team has become more > > cosmopolitan now. They spend months out there in space. One need > not > > necessarily settle on a planet.> > > > According to one theory we are descendants of beings from outer > > space.> > > > The ancient myths...chariots descending from the sky...were nothing > > but space ships.> > > > The theory of evolution versus intermingling of the gods with the > > lesser mortals of the earth?> > > > Umpteen examples....in Greek, Roman, Hindu mythology....> > > > e.g. in reverse: how did Kunti beget her children?> > , "vernalagnia" > > <vernalagnia@> wrote:> > >> > > , "vinita kumar"> > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation > > there > > > > looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world> > > > > > > > > Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the > superpowers > > for> > > a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of > time. > > > > > > Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile > > environment> > > of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal > > radiation> > > once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises: > where> > > are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then> > > what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for > Pluto > > > would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with > > their> > > great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune > > with> > > their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so, > we > > are> > > left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons> > > of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in > > enclosed> > > space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to> > > travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But> > > even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?> > > Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would > > still> > > take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming > we> > > could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for> > > human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very > > > improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was> > > suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are > designed > > for> > > earth and not elsewhere.> > > > > > Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that> > > exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's > psyche, > > and> > > thus not really worthwhile at all.> > > > > > > > > , did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?> > > > > > They did. And wrote astro for the earth > > > > > > > Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which > > are > > > > currently populated? > > > > > > > > > Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a > > science.> > > > > > > > > > So it may not have have universal application to the future > race > > of > > > > human beings???!> > > > > > > > > Is this one of those days or are you really serious? > > > > > > +++> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandra ji ,Sreenadh ji and other learned members

Sorry for the delayed reply.Was busy as mentioned in another mail.Thanks for the detailed explanations. As the Earth's axis is tilted in space colatitude (90-latitude) = Obliquity. Pradeep:Similarly what we consider as East is differing from True east by ''value of Obliquity''. Thus it is interesting to study the geometry and its realms - as mentioned in your mail - trigonometry failing(indeterminate) at Cos 90. After 90 the Tan function is -ve in the 2nd and 4th quadrant so 92 and 272 are the same in terms of function values. So the software has to avoid bugs possible in choosing the quadrants Pradeep:In 1st and 3rd quadrants tan will be positive & 2 nd 4th tan will be negative, because of sin & cos,values.I hope we are referring to the longitude of ascendant here.Thus do you mean for latitudes above polar circle,longitude has to be calculated with quadrants and signs in mind.Do you mean declinations greater than that of polar circle,has to be studied along with right ascenscions,so that signs and quadrants are in sync.Generally,this is applicable only for declinations greater then 90 degrees(adding ,subtracting 180 degrees) .As i am not very clear here,kindly correct,if you were having something else in mind.

Declinations like (-)23.45 degrees at Sayana Makara = Nirayana Dhanu 5-6 degrees. So from Vrschikam to Makaram, the sidereal signs have greater south declination which makes the Zenith distance greater than 90 degrees and so they will never rise at certain Latitudes as we go North of 90 - 23.45 = 66.55. (90 - Latitude) is called co-latitude and when declination is greater than this colatitude the body never sets. Pradeep:This is a fact and brings many questions to mind.Is Horizon setting limits for the astrological system(Purposefully).Earth moves from west to east,and hence udaya or rising of the ascendant is naturally seen from the east.But if certain signs and sun cannot rise during certain periods,what is the significance of astrology in those regions. Jyotish has been designed with Earth as reference point,and hence doubts regarding space/moon etc are beyond,is my humble opinion.

Thanks Pradeep , "K Chandra Hari" <chandrahari81 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh and Pradeep, Relevant details and formula> are given below. This can be a case of the routine method of fixing> the Lagna failing. But still there must be some way out to fix the> Lagna. May be quite easy too. Think over and try... Sky at> Higher Latitudes 1. There are no directions at the North Pole as> East cannot be fixed. Day is decided by the declination of Sun (North or> +) and it appears above horizon, circles the sky and then disappears at> the same point. So East = West. 2. At the poles altitude of the> sun never exceeds the maximum declination of Sun or the obliquity of the> Earth's axis = 23.45 degrees now. With 0 declination at Vishu, Sun> just touches the horizon and then it spirals round the sky as the> altitude goes on increasing to reach maximum height at 23.45 on summer> solstice. 3. For all the places in the Polar circle with latitude> above 660-33' degrees – the expressions used in astrological> software may fail – this is the maximu latitude at which the> trigonometry works and it is because of the obliquity of the Earth's> axis. See that 90 – 23.45 (obliquity) = 66.55. As the Earth's> axis is tilted in space colatitude (90-latitude) = Obliquity. 4. > For Lagna see the _expression given in Rasichakram– if you compute> Lagna for say 66.55, for Sun at 23.45 degrees and with obliquity as> 23.45, u will get Sayana Lagna =89.990. Now if you increase the latitude> the Lagna will depend upon the variation of the Tan function and as you> increase Latitude to 67, 70, 75, 85, 89.9999 the Lagna will become> 89.9999999999999999. It can never give 90 as tan = Sin/Cos and so at 90> Cos 90 = 0 and so Tan = indeterminate. Aryabhata has called the> situation as "Asanna_90" means "approaching" 90 => 89.9999999999. 5. After 90 the Tan function is –ve in the 2nd> and 4th quadrant so 92 and 272 are the same in terms of function values.> So the software has to avoid bugs possible in choosing the quadrants.> Bugs can arise due to various reasons. Aries to Kanya, tropical when Sun> is north of the Equator, it will be spiraling in the horizon to reach> 23.45 altitude at Sayana 90 and then in next three months the altitude> goes down to zero. 6. Apart from what is said above the rising> of signs in the polar circle can be looked at directly in terms of the> declination. Ecliptic – sun's path, has declinations like > (-)23.45 degrees at Sayana Makara = Nirayana Dhanu 5-6 degrees. So from> Vrschikam to Makaram, the sidereal signs have greater south declination> which makes the Zenith distance greater than 90 degrees and so they will> never rise at certain Latitudes as we go North of 90 – 23.45 => 66.55. (90 – Latitude) is called co-latitude and when declination is> greater than this colatitude the body never sets. This is true in both> the hemispheres and the one that does not set cannot rise in the other> side. So when sun is having a negative declination it does not rise at> the Pole. When sun is (-) 23.45 in declination it will be 113.45 in> zenith distance at North Pole and it will just graze over the horizon in> North Hemisphere when the declination becomes zero at the vernal> equinox. As the declination becomes +23.45 with summer solstice, it can> be see at 23.45 degree altitude (zenith distance = 66.55) at the pole.> So at the pole Sun can be seen only for tropical Aries to Virgo. So> other Lagnas cannot be possible. At 66.55 Latitude to have a body to be> seen at the horizon we need a zenith distance = or less than 90 and so> south or negative declination has to be less than Colatitude 90 –> 66.55 = 23.45. Sidereal Dhanu and Makara has south declinations around> 20 degree and so beyond 70 degree latitudes, they cannot be seen.> Likewise, broadly speaking Vrscika to Kumba has south declination around> 12 degrees and so they never rise at latitudes above 90 – 12 = 78> degrees. 7. Latitude – Zenith distance = Declination. Pole> has an altitude = 90 and zenith distance =0. At Pole where latitude 90,> we see the pole at 90 degree. So at latitude F we see the pole at an> altitude of F. This is the astronomy behind Lagna computation. > · Inuvik is at 68_21 North. Date taken is 21st June when Sun> is very near to 90 degree tropical. Sunrise in Jagannatha Hora is 04:08> for 6 hour West of GMT. How he is giving sunrise as 0245, I have no> idea. Even the local time cannot be 0245, as I tried to figure out. When> someone is giving an astronomical problem he must be specific as what> time is indicated and Lat, Long etc. Date given is also wrong when> checked with Jhora. What is his reference for the rising time, Lagna > and all that he has given? · Data he gives is true only for> 22nd June (Ayanamsa affects when we speak of sidereal and English> dates). See on 21st June when Sun was less than 90 degrees, the Lagna> given at sunrise was Sagittarius and 22nd June when Sun is 90+ Lagna> becomes + by 180. This can be a bug in the software. With positive> declination of the Sun, I don't see any reason for such a strange> behaviour. · See why the Lagna progresses only up to 14 Sc => 224 degree = 224+24 = 248 = this is the tropical Longitude. Declination> at this point is (–)21.65 = 21039'. See that this declination is> 90 – Latitude of Inuvik. At Inuvik the rest of Scorpio cannot rise. > · Now take Taurus 14 = 68 degrees. Here declination is +21.65.> But the jump is not correct to my mind. When the point of 90 – South> Declination limit is reached say 14 Sc – may be the sun sets there> and rises at 180 opposite – in fact east and west can exist only> mathematically in polar circle. · With the formula Tan-(-Cos> R/(Cos w*SinR+Sinw*Tan Latitude) where R = 15Xstob, you can workout the> details and see how the Tan function influences the computations.> , "Sreenadh"> sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > Be slow and study in approaching this retro lagna question. I have a> > feeling that it has some fruitful results to give. Many groups might> > have discussed this issue - but remember 'we are different', and> > a 'true study group'. Inquisitiveness is its foundation - and true> > quest never goes unrewarded (by its own destiny). > > So be patient, relax, approach questions one by one - and try to> > make it a fruitful exercise.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >> >> > , "vinita kumar"> > shankar_mamta@ wrote:> > >> > > BTW, space stations exist even now in outer space inhabited not> > just> > > by the Americans and the Russians....the team has become more> > > cosmopolitan now. They spend months out there in space. One need> > not> > > necessarily settle on a planet.> > >> > > According to one theory we are descendants of beings from outer> > > space.> > >> > > The ancient myths...chariots descending from the sky...were nothing> > > but space ships.> > >> > > The theory of evolution versus intermingling of the gods with the> > > lesser mortals of the earth?> > >> > > Umpteen examples....in Greek, Roman, Hindu mythology....> > >> > > e.g. in reverse: how did Kunti beget her children?> > > , "vernalagnia"> > > <vernalagnia@> wrote:> > > >> > > > , "vinita kumar"> > > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Though stations in outer space and habitation / co-habitation> > > there> > > > > looks to be a distinct possibility in today's world> > > >> > > >> > > > Not a chance. Space was always a vanity project of the> > superpowers> > > for> > > > a long while and a few others hopped in at varying points of> > time.> > > >> > > > Even assuming that the problems of the incredible hostile> > > environment> > > > of space can be reduced to manageable levels - eg the lethal> > > radiation> > > > once one moves away from the earth - a great question arises:> > where> > > > are we going to go? To the moon, yes. To Mars, probably. But then> > > > what? No other planet in the solar system apart possibly for> > Pluto> > > > would allow us to land. Mercury and Venus would destroy us with> > > their> > > > great heat, the gas giants Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune> > > with> > > > their gravity not long after we entered their atmospheres.. so,> > we> > > are> > > > left with the moon and Mars, plus Pluto and some of the moons> > > > of gas giants. None of those will be habitable other than in> > > enclosed> > > > space stations. Then there is the question of distance. Even to> > > > travel to Pluto would take many years with present technology. But> > > > even if we could greatly improve on that, where would it leave us?> > > > Suppose we could travel at 90% of the speed of light, it would> > > still> > > > take us around six years to travel to the nearest star. Assuming> > we> > > > could do that, what would we be likely to find? Planets unfit for> > > > human beings. To take just one parameter gravity. It is very> > > > improbable that a planet the size of earth would be found that was> > > > suitable for colonization or politics Human beings are> > designed> > > for> > > > earth and not elsewhere.> > > >> > > > Space is actually dead end except for those who believe that> > > > exploration is an end in itself, a representation of Man's> > psyche,> > > and> > > > thus not really worthwhile at all.> > > >> > > >> > > > , did the ancient astrologers not foresee this?> > > >> > > > They did. And wrote astro for the earth > > > >> > > > > Doesn't astrology then apply only to those areas on earth which> > > are> > > > > currently populated?> > > >> > > >> > > > Hmmmmm, delineating within a planet itself is way dicey for a> > > science.> > > >> > > >> > > > > So it may not have have universal application to the future> > race> > > of> > > > > human beings???!> > > >> > > >> > > > Is this one of those days or are you really serious? > > > >> > > > +++> > > >> > >> >>