Experiments - Male/Female Verification from Horoscope

May 14, 2006

Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity

involved.

Panditji said:

==>

> Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ?

> If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of basic

> principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.

<==

I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of the

basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this

group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female?

Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is

of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a

male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here

itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive

power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws given for

verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will

compare it with the actual.

As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " ,

but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we fail,

we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules

selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point of

time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

experiments.

Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)

---

* All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.

* The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided here'.

* The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope is of a

male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for

validation.

* Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT

rectification. [That means the given BT would be corrected only to

a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

* The validation done by all participant would be summarized at the

end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules provided

would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but the

rules selected]

Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)

------------------------------

* Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should inform

the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male or

female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private mail.

[before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the

trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e. trustee)

will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and

should not make any comments about this experiment or horoscopes]

* Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided as

far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of

youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

* Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned. (otherwise it

is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or female.

Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given would be

ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

* Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its

Latitude and Longitude.

I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants. I

won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual data),

since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment. Now

the pre-requisites are -

1) Selection of the trustee.

2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will provide, at

the end of the this mail]

3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide, once

the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in the

group that he got the details of the horoscope, the participants

should start to validate it]

+=============================================================+

|Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

+=============================================================+

The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules

that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in

this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

I] Male.

--------

1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets

in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the

logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.

[4+4=8 points]

3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets

in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]

II] Female.

--------

1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female

planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck

is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

well. [4+4=8 points]

3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female

planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.

[3 points]

Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority

points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2

points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

13+2= 15 points

I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about

such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the

actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before proceeding.

P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even

though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses

classics consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as

well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is

said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is

said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates

male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it clarifies.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " panditarjun2004 "

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear panditji

>

> agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern "

> astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or

prediction

> purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every

> ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a hospital

and

> the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible and

> invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and other

> reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives an

> indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is

above

> or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even

though

> thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million

> rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these doctors

> are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores,

whenever

> a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a

> declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies, there

is

> no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like

> apollo, several people keep dying.

>

> whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take

refuge

> in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired, earned

> and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or

happiness

> of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the

> karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an

> astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that this

is

> what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native and

> not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the report

> which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

responsibility,

> answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and

> fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " .

>

> it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop taking

> credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail even

> once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation

with

> his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE IS

IN

> YOUR OWN HANDS " .

>

> with best wishes

> arjun

> , Panditji

> <navagraha@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and won't

> be the

> > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility. There

> are very

> > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close they

can

> read

> > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of it

is what

> > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and

> ofcourse

> > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The

conclusion is

> > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> >

> > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers

predicted

> > victory for the current president, very close to election time. If

> astrology

> > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of

residence

> ? Thats

> > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had

lost the

> > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need

all the

> > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict

> whether a

> > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a serious

lack of

> > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not

> repeatable or

> > both.

> >

> > ...

> >

> > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > >

> > > dear pradeep ji

> > >

> > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > >

> > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to

share

> > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all

willing

> > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and blind

> > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in this

group

> > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open

discussion

> > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very

healthy

> > > for the progress of this group.

> > >

> > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to astrology

so

> > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > >

> > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > ANI

> > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > Email Email Print Print

> > >

> > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his

last on

> > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D

Hinduja

> > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > >

> > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only

created a

> > > shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers on

the

> > > wrong foot.

> > >

> > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had

predicted

> > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime

> > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > >

> > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be

> > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once again. "

> > >

> > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in Indian

> > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > >

> > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009,

which

> > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > >

> > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that

Mahajan

> > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite

fluctuating

> > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > >

> > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a

period of

> > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of

Jupiter it

> > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not

poised

> > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > >

> > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good

> > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would be

> > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), "

> > > Sharma had said.

> > >

> > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had

added

> > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of the

> > > country.

> > >

> > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that

Mahajan and

> > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > ----

> > >

> > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he

was

> > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took place,

every

> > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as

simple as

> > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers jumped

to

> > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF

PRAMOD "

> > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when

parliament of

> > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a different

date

> > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama

further

> > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ PRAMOD'S

> > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's

changing

> > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad or

> > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future,

before

> > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall take

place

> > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > >

> > > with best wishes

> > > arjun

> > > --- In

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > >

> > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has

reported,a

> > > news

> > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only

come on

> > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of

birth

> > > time

> > > > authentic.

> > > >

> > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have

rightly

> > > said

> > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling themselves,by

> > > giving

> > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > >

> > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from

> > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > >

> > > > Kind Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > >

May 16, 2006

Dear All,

I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from

me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?'

There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the curiosity for

objective verification of rules. Determining wether the horoscope is

of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a

systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the

suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message I

addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji in the

beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before all.

If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not proper

and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to

implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we will

continue with our normal discussions.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity

> involved.

> Panditji said:

> ==>

> > Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ?

> > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of basic

> > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.

> <==

> I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of the

> basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this

> group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female?

> Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is

> of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a

> male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here

> itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive

> power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws given

for

> verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will

> compare it with the actual.

> As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " ,

> but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we

fail,

> we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules

> selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point

of

> time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

> experiments.

> Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from

horoscope)

> --

-

> * All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.

> * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided here'.

> * The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope is of

a

> male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for

> validation.

> * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT

> rectification. [That means the given BT would be corrected only

to

> a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> * The validation done by all participant would be summarized at

the

> end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules

provided

> would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but the

> rules selected]

> Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)

> ------------------------------

> * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should inform

> the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male or

> female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private

mail.

> [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the

> trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e.

trustee)

> will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and

> should not make any comments about this experiment or horoscopes]

> * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided as

> far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of

> youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned. (otherwise

it

> is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or

female.

> Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given would be

> ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its

> Latitude and Longitude.

> I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

> predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants. I

> won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual data),

> since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment. Now

> the pre-requisites are -

> 1) Selection of the trustee.

> 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will provide,

at

> the end of the this mail]

> 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide,

once

> the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in the

> group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

participants

> should start to validate it]

> +=============================================================+

> |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

> +=============================================================+

> The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

> female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only

rules

> that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED

in

> this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

> I] Male.

> --------

> 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male

planets

> in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

> Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the

> logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.

> [4+4=8 points]

> 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male

planets

> in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]

> II] Female.

> --------

> 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.

Female

> planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

luck

> is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

> well. [4+4=8 points]

> 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female

> planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.

> [3 points]

>

> Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

> determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority

> points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2

> points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

> Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> 13+2= 15 points

> I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about

> such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the

> actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

proceeding.

> P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even

> though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses

> classics consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as

> well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is

> said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is

> said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates

> male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it

clarifies.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " panditarjun2004 "

> <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> >

> > dear panditji

> >

> > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern "

> > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or

> prediction

> > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every

> > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a

hospital

> and

> > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible and

> > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and

other

> > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives

an

> > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is

> above

> > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even

> though

> > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million

> > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these

doctors

> > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores,

> whenever

> > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a

> > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies,

there

> is

> > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like

> > apollo, several people keep dying.

> >

> > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take

> refuge

> > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired,

earned

> > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or

> happiness

> > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the

> > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an

> > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that

this

> is

> > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native

and

> > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the

report

> > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> responsibility,

> > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and

> > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " .

> >

> > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop

taking

> > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail

even

> > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation

> with

> > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE

IS

> IN

> > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> >

> > with best wishes

> > arjun

> > , Panditji

> > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and

won't

> > be the

> > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility.

There

> > are very

> > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close

they

> can

> > read

> > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of

it

> is what

> > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and

> > ofcourse

> > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The

> conclusion is

> > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > >

> > > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers

> predicted

> > > victory for the current president, very close to election time.

If

> > astrology

> > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of

> residence

> > ? Thats

> > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had

> lost the

> > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need

> all the

> > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict

> > whether a

> > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a

serious

> lack of

> > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not

> > repeatable or

> > > both.

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > >

> > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > >

> > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to

> share

> > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all

> willing

> > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and

blind

> > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in

this

> group

> > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open

> discussion

> > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very

> healthy

> > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > >

> > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to

astrology

> so

> > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > >

> > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > ANI

> > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > >

> > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his

> last on

> > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D

> Hinduja

> > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > >

> > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only

> created a

> > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers

on

> the

> > > > wrong foot.

> > > >

> > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had

> predicted

> > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime

> > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > >

> > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be

> > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once

again. "

> > > >

> > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in

Indian

> > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > >

> > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009,

> which

> > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > >

> > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that

> Mahajan

> > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite

> fluctuating

> > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > >

> > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a

> period of

> > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of

> Jupiter it

> > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not

> poised

> > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > >

> > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good

> > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would

be

> > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), "

> > > > Sharma had said.

> > > >

> > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had

> added

> > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of

the

> > > > country.

> > > >

> > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that

> Mahajan and

> > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > ----

> > > >

> > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he

> was

> > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took

place,

> every

> > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as

> simple as

> > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers

jumped

> to

> > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF

> PRAMOD "

> > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when

> parliament of

> > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a

different

> date

> > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama

> further

> > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ

PRAMOD'S

> > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's

> changing

> > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad

or

> > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future,

> before

> > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall

take

> place

> > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes

> > > > arjun

> > > > --- In

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has

> reported,a

> > > > news

> > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only

> come on

> > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of

> birth

> > > > time

> > > > > authentic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have

> rightly

> > > > said

> > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

themselves,by

> > > > giving

> > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > >

> > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from

> > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > >

May 16, 2006

Namaste Sreenadhji,

I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do not recall exactly how it was done.

This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big pandora box of general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we should ask people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share their findings.

What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

....

On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

Dear All,I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?' :)There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the curiosity for

objective verification of rules. Determining wether the horoscope is of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message I addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji in the beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before all. If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not proper

and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to implement such an exersise, even at a later date. But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we will continue with our normal discussions.

Love,Sreenadh , " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:>> Dear Panditji, Arjunji,> I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity > involved. > Panditji said:

> ==>> > Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ? > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of basic > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.

> <==> I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of the > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female?

> Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws given for > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will > compare it with the actual.> As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " , > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we fail, > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point of > time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar > experiments. > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)> ---> * All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.> * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided here'.

> * The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope is of a > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for > validation.> * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT > rectification. [That means the given BT would be corrected only to > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].> * The validation done by all participant would be summarized at the > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules provided > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but the > rules selected]> Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)> ------------------------------

> * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should inform > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male or > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private mail. > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e. trustee) > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and > should not make any comments about this experiment or horoscopes]> * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided as > far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.> * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned. (otherwise it > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or female. > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given would be > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)> * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its> Latitude and Longitude. > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the > predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants. I > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual data), > since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment. Now > the pre-requisites are -> 1) Selection of the trustee.> 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will provide, at > the end of the this mail]> 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide, once > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in the > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the participants > should start to validate it]> +=============================================================+

> |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|> +=============================================================+> The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

> female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

> I] Male.> --------> 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well. > [4+4=8 points] > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]> II] Female.> --------> 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as > well. [4+4=8 points] > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. > [3 points]> > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2 > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house, > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).> So the maximum point either male or female can get is:> 13+2= 15 points

> I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

proceeding. > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses > classics consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it clarifies.> Love,> Sreenadh> >

, " panditarjun2004 " > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> >> > dear panditji> > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern "

> > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or > prediction> > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every> > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a hospital > and> > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible and> > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and other> > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives an> > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is > above> > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even > though> > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million

> > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these doctors> > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores, > whenever> > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a

> > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies, there > is> > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like> > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take > refuge > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired, earned> > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or > happiness> > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the> > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an> > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that this > is> > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native and> > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the report> > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own > responsibility,> > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and> > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " .> >

> > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop taking> > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail even> > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation > with> > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE IS > IN> > YOUR OWN HANDS " .> > > > with best wishes> > arjun> > , Panditji> > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > >> > > Namaste,> > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and won't> > be the> > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility. There> > are very> > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close they > can> > read> > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of it > is what> > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and> > ofcourse> > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The > conclusion is

> > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.> > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers > predicted> > > victory for the current president, very close to election time. If> > astrology> > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of > residence> > ? Thats> > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had > lost the> > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need > all the> > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict> > whether a

> > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a serious > lack of> > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not> > repeatable or> > > both.

> > > > > > ...> > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> > > >> > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > >> > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as> > > >> > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to > share> > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all > willing> > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and blind> > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in this > group

> > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open > discussion> > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very > healthy> > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > >> > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to astrology > so> > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:> > > >

> > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered> > > > ANI> > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54> > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54> > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > >> > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his > last on> > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D > Hinduja

> > > > Hospital in Mumbai.> > > >> > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only > created a> > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers on > the> > > > wrong foot.> > > >> > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had > predicted> > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime

> > > > ministership after the year 2009.> > > >> > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be> > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once again. " > > > >> > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in Indian> > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " > > > >

> > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009, > which> > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. " > > > >> > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that > Mahajan> > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite > fluctuating> > > > fortunes till December 2006.> > > >> > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a > period of> > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of > Jupiter it> > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not > poised

> > > > for as good result as in 11th house. " > > > >> > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good> > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would be> > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), " > > > > Sharma had said.> > > >> > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had > added> > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of the> > > > country.> > > >> > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that > Mahajan and> > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .> > > > ----> > > >> > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he > was> > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took place, > every> > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as > simple as

> > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers jumped > to> > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF > PRAMOD "

> > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when > parliament of> > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a different > date> > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama > further> > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ PRAMOD'S> > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's > changing> > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad or> > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future, > before> > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall take > place> > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > >> > > > with best wishes> > > > arjun> > > > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Madhu ji> > > > >

> > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has > reported,a> > > > news> > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only

> come on> > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of > birth> > > > time> > > > > authentic.> > > > >> > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have > rightly> > > > said> > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling themselves,by

> > > > giving> > > > > predictions after exit polls .> > > > >> > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from> > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > and Madhu ji.> > > > >> > > > > Kind Regds> > > > > Pradeep> > > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

May 17, 2006

Dear Sreenadh ji, I don't think anyone has deliberately ignored your message. I for one can sincerely attest to the fact of careful reading of every message you post as they contain gems of inestimable value. I have yet to read your lengthy message on the above subject. I will certainly be reading it as it is something anyone who aspires to learn vedic astrology would love to know. Astrologers in Tamil Nadu use certain gatis and vigatis to differentiate between a male and female. Is that not followed by astrologers in Kerala ? I am writing to you to inform you that your efforts here in this list is not wasted. It is surely appreciated. Please carry on the good work. Thank you. David

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

May 17, 2006

Dear Panditji,

Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna

logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will prefer

to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized form)

i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and

nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters instead

of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava Navamsa. Nava

= 9.

The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native

or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered

correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the

Kunda longitude which is accurate.

In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in which star

it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda longitude

falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error

JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and

the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is an

erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of

multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has already

admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per

JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

Love,

Sreenadh

, Panditji

<navagraha wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadhji,

>

> I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do not

recall

> exactly how it was done.

>

> This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big pandora

box of

> general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we should

ask

> people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share

their

> findings.

>

> What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

>

> ...

>

> On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from

> > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?'

> > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the curiosity

for

> > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the horoscope

is

> > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a

> > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the

> > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message I

> > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji in

the

> > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before

all.

> > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not

proper

> > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to

> > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we

will

> > continue with our normal discussions.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> >

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity

> > > involved.

> > > Panditji said:

> > > ==>

> > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ?

> > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of

basic

> > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.

> > > <==

> > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of

the

> > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this

> > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or

female?

> > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether

it is

> > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is

of a

> > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here

> > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive

> > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws

given

> > for

> > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we

will

> > > compare it with the actual.

> > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID

SO " ,

> > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we

> > fail,

> > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules

> > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some

point

> > of

> > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

> > > experiments.

> > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from

> > horoscope)

> > > -------------------------------

----

> > -

> > > * All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.

> > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided

here'.

> > > * The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope

is of

> > a

> > > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for

> > > validation.

> > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT

> > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be corrected

only

> > to

> > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > * The validation done by all participant would be summarized at

> > the

> > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules

> > provided

> > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but

the

> > > rules selected]

> > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)

> > > ------------------------------

> > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should

inform

> > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male

or

> > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private

> > mail.

> > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the

> > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e.

> > trustee)

> > > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and

> > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

horoscopes]

> > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided

as

> > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of

> > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.

(otherwise

> > it

> > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or

> > female.

> > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given

would be

> > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its

> > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

> > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants.

I

> > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual

data),

> > > since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment.

Now

> > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will

provide,

> > at

> > > the end of the this mail]

> > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide,

> > once

> > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in

the

> > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > participants

> > > should start to validate it]

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

> > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only

> > rules

> > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

CONSIDERED

> > in

> > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

> > > I] Male.

> > > --------

> > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male

> > planets

> > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

male.

> > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is

the

> > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

well.

> > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male

> > planets

> > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3

points]

> > > II] Female.

> > > --------

> > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.

> > Female

> > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

> > luck

> > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa

as

> > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female.

Female

> > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic

behind.

> > > [3 points]

> > >

> > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

> > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the

majority

> > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign

2

> > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

> > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion

about

> > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep

the

> > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > proceeding.

> > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics.

Even

> > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses

> > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of female

birth as

> > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations.

Sa is

> > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it

is

> > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11

indicates

> > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it

> > clarifies.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > --- In

, " panditarjun2004 "

> > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear panditji

> > > >

> > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

of " modern "

> > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or

> > > prediction

> > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with

every

> > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a

> > hospital

> > > and

> > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible

and

> > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and

> > other

> > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor

gives

> > an

> > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count

is

> > > above

> > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that.

even

> > > though

> > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a

million

> > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these

> > doctors

> > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores,

> > > whenever

> > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a

> > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies,

> > there

> > > is

> > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals

like

> > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > >

> > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take

> > > refuge

> > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired,

> > earned

> > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or

> > > happiness

> > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role,

for the

> > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases,

an

> > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that

> > this

> > > is

> > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the

native

> > and

> > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the

> > report

> > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > responsibility,

> > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name

and

> > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID

SO " .

> > > >

> > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop

> > taking

> > > > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail

> > even

> > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own

reputation

> > > with

> > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR

FUTURE

> > IS

> > > IN

> > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes

> > > > arjun

> > > > , Panditji

> > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and

> > won't

> > > > be the

> > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility.

> > There

> > > > are very

> > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close

> > they

> > > can

> > > > read

> > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most

of

> > it

> > > is what

> > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in

rashi and

> > > > ofcourse

> > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The

> > > conclusion is

> > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known

astrologers

> > > predicted

> > > > > victory for the current president, very close to election

time.

> > If

> > > > astrology

> > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of

> > > residence

> > > > ? Thats

> > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush

had

> > > lost the

> > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we

need

> > > all the

> > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not

predict

> > > > whether a

> > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a

> > serious

> > > lack of

> > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not

> > > > repeatable or

> > > > > both.

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

willing to

> > > share

> > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all

> > > willing

> > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and

> > blind

> > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in

> > this

> > > group

> > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open

> > > discussion

> > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very

> > > healthy

> > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to

> > astrology

> > > so

> > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > >

> > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed

his

> > > last on

> > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D

> > > Hinduja

> > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only

> > > created a

> > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

astrologers

> > on

> > > the

> > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had

> > > predicted

> > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime

> > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to

be

> > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once

> > again. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in

> > Indian

> > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from

2009,

> > > which

> > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted

that

> > > Mahajan

> > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite

> > > fluctuating

> > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a

> > > period of

> > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of

> > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus

not

> > > poised

> > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a

good

> > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he

would

> > be

> > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven

(1/3), "

> > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee

had

> > > added

> > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader

of

> > the

> > > > > > country.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that

> > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > >

> > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT

before he

> > > was

> > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took

> > place,

> > > every

> > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as

> > > simple as

> > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers

> > jumped

> > > to

> > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF

> > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when

> > > parliament of

> > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a

> > different

> > > date

> > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the

drama

> > > further

> > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ

> > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's

> > > changing

> > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place

(hyderabad

> > or

> > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in

future,

> > > before

> > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall

> > take

> > > place

> > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > --- In

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has

> > > reported,a

> > > > > > news

> > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will

only

> > > come on

> > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source

of

> > > birth

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have

> > > rightly

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

> > themselves,by

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna

from

> > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

May 17, 2006

Dear David ji,

Thanks for the encouragement and the thoughts shared.

Almost no method in astrology is specific to Kerala or Tamil nadu or

for that reason to any other region in India. We are here in search

of different systems of ancient indian astrology - that is all to it.

Yes, some astrologers in Kerala follows that as well. I found more

than 10 methods for correcting the BT and 5-6 for verifying BT and

the like used by various astrologers which are supported by classics

as well.

As you may know, the gati-vigati method for dertermining male-female

from horoscope is supported by Uttara Kalamrita, a text originated in

North India. Probably some of the Tamil astrologers are follwing it

as per that text only.

Love,

Sreenadh

, David Andrews

<andrews635 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

> I don't think anyone has deliberately ignored your message. I for

one can sincerely attest to the fact of careful reading of every

message you post as they contain gems of inestimable value.

> I have yet to read your lengthy message on the above subject. I

will certainly be reading it as it is something anyone who aspires to

learn vedic astrology would love to know.

> Astrologers in Tamil Nadu use certain gatis and vigatis to

differentiate between a male and female. Is that not followed by

astrologers in Kerala ?

> I am writing to you to inform you that your efforts here in this

list is not wasted. It is surely appreciated.

> Please carry on the good work.

> Thank you.

>

> David

>

> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone

call rates.

>

May 17, 2006

Namaste,

Thanks for this info.

When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right ?

Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, correct ?

Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly defined.

There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not sure exactly what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to verify whether the method works unfailingly ?

Thanks as always

....

On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

Dear Panditji,Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will prefer to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized form)

i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters instead of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava Navamsa. Nava = 9.The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the Kunda longitude which is accurate. In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in which star it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda longitude falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is an erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has already admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.Love,Sreenadh

, Panditji

<navagraha wrote:>> Namaste Sreenadhji,> > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do not recall> exactly how it was done.> > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big pandora box of> general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we should ask> people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share their> findings.> > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.> > ...> >

> On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from> > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?'

> > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the curiosity for> > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the horoscope is> > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a

> > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the> > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message I> > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji in the> > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before all.> > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not proper> > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to

> > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.> > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we will> > continue with our normal discussions.> > Love,

> > Sreenadh> >> >

, " Sreenadh " > >> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,> > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity

> > > involved.> > > Panditji said:> > > ==>> > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ?> > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of basic> > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.> > > <==> > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of the> > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this

> > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or female?> > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether it is> > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is of a> > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here> > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive> > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws given> > for> > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we will> > > compare it with the actual.> > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " ,> > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we> > fail,> > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules> > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some point> > of> > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar> > > experiments.> > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from> > horoscope)

> > > --> > -> > > * All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.> > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided here'.> > > * The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope is of> > a> > > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for> > > validation.

> > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT> > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be corrected only> > to> > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > * The validation done by all participant would be summarized at> > the> > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules> > provided> > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but the> > > rules selected]> > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)> > > ------------------------------> > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should inform> > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male or> > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private> > mail.> > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the

> > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e.> > trustee)> > > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and> > > should not make any comments about this experiment or horoscopes]> > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided as> > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of> > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned. (otherwise> > it> > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or> > female.> > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given would be> > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)> > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its> > > Latitude and Longitude.> > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

> > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants. I> > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual data),> > > since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment. Now> > > the pre-requisites are -> > > 1) Selection of the trustee.> > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will provide,> > at> > > the end of the this mail]

> > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide,> > once> > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in the> > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > participants> > > should start to validate it]> > > +=============================================================+> > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

> > > +=============================================================+> > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or> > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only

> > rules> > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED> > in> > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets> > > I] Male.

> > > --------> > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male> > planets> > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.> > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the> > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.> > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male> > planets> > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]> > > II] Female.

> > > --------> > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.> > Female> > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and> > luck> > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as> > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female> > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.> > > [3 points]> > >

> > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is> > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority> > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2> > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,> > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).> > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > 13+2= 15 points> > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion about> > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep the> > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > proceeding.> > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics. Even> > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses> > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of female birth as> > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations. Sa is> > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it is> > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11 indicates> > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it> > clarifies.> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > >

, " panditarjun2004 " > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> > > >> > > > dear panditji> > > >> > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern " > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or> > > prediction> > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every> > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a> > hospital> > > and> > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible

and> > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and> > other> > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives> > an> > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is> > > above> > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even> > > though> > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million> > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these> > doctors> > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores,> > > whenever

> > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a> > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies,> > there> > > is> > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like> > > > apollo, several people keep dying.> > > >> > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take> > > refuge> > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired,

> > earned> > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or> > > happiness> > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the

> > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an> > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that> > this> > > is> > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native> > and> > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the> > report> > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > responsibility,> > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and> > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " .> > > >> > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop> > taking> > > > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail

> > even> > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation> > > with> > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR

FUTURE> > IS> > > IN> > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .> > > >> > > > with best wishes> > > > arjun> > > >

, Panditji> > > > <navagraha@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste,> > > > >> > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and

> > won't> > > > be the> > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility.> > There> > > > are very> > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close

> > they> > > can> > > > read> > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of> > it> > > is what> > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and> > > > ofcourse> > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The> > > conclusion is> > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > >> > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers> > > predicted> > > > > victory for the current president, very close to election time.> > If> > > > astrology> > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of> > > residence> > > > ? Thats> > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had> > > lost the> > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need> > > all the> > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict> > > > whether a> > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a> > serious> > > lack of> > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not

> > > > repeatable or> > > > > both.> > > > >> > > > > ...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > >> > > > > > dear pradeep ji> > > > > >> > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as> > > > > >

> > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to> > > share> > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all> > > willing

> > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and> > blind> > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in> > this

> > > group> > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open> > > discussion> > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very

> > > healthy> > > > > > for the progress of this group.> > > > > >> > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to> > astrology

> > > so> > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:> > > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > ANI> > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54> > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54> > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > >> > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his> > > last on> > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D

> > > Hinduja> > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.> > > > > >> > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only> > > created a

> > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers> > on> > > the> > > > > > wrong foot.> > > > > >> > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had

> > > predicted> > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime> > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be> > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once> > again. " > > > > > >

> > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in> > Indian> > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " > > > > > >

> > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009,> > > which> > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. " > > > > > >

> > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that> > > Mahajan> > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite

> > > fluctuating> > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.> > > > > >> > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a

> > > period of> > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of> > > Jupiter it> > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not> > > poised> > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. " > > > > > >> > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good> > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would> > be> > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), "

> > > > > > Sharma had said.> > > > > >> > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had> > > added> > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of> > the> > > > > > country.> > > > > >> > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that> > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .> > > > > > ----> > > > > >> > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he> > > was> > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took> > place,> > > every> > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as> > > simple as> > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers> > jumped> > > to> > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF

> > > PRAMOD " > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when> > > parliament of> > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a

> > different> > > date> > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama> > > further> > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ

> > PRAMOD'S> > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's> > > changing> > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad> > or> > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future,> > > before> > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall

> > take> > > place> > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.> > > > > >> > > > > > with best wishes> > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > --- In> > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has> > > reported,a> > > > > > news> > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only> > > come on> > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of> > > birth> > > > > > time> > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji> > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have> > > rightly> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling> > themselves,by> > > > > > giving> > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from> > > > > > Sreenadh ji> > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kind Regds> > > > > > > Pradeep> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

May 17, 2006

Dear Panditji,

> When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right ?

As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa

(Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are also

mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But that

is not relevent here.

> Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, correct ?

Yes.

The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth

to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda)

should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> Have you done this on known charts to verify

> whether the method works unfailingly ?

This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the

maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or

minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora, Brihal

prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra hari

is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are

going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like, when

the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported

method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the only

thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth

time, this method is not going to help.

There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files

section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look at it

to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known as 'Varga

chtushtaya methods'.

P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora because,

JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9) and

Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is

calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected, Kunda

and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is

made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method followed

JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.

I hope it clarifies.

Love,

Sreenadh

, Panditji

<navagraha wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Thanks for this info.

>

> When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right ?

>

> Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, correct ?

>

> Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly defined.

>

> There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not sure

exactly

> what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to

verify

> whether the method works unfailingly ?

>

> Thanks as always

>

> ...

>

> On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Panditji,

> > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna

> > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will

prefer

> > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized

form)

> > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and

> > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

instead

> > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava Navamsa.

Nava

> > = 9.

> >

> > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native

> > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered

> > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the

> > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in which

star

> > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda longitude

> > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

> > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error

> > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and

> > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is

an

> > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of

> > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has

already

> > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per

> > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Panditji

> >

> > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > >

> > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do not

> > recall

> > > exactly how it was done.

> > >

> > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big

pandora

> > box of

> > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we

should

> > ask

> > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share

> > their

> > > findings.

> > >

> > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from

> > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

know?'

> > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

curiosity

> > for

> > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

horoscope

> > is

> > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct

in a

> > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the

> > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message

I

> > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji

in

> > the

> > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before

> > all.

> > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not

> > proper

> > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to

> > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and

we

> > will

> > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > >

> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

sincerity

> > > > > involved.

> > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > ==>

> > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

residence ?

> > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of

> > basic

> > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.

> > > > > <==

> > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification'

of

> > the

> > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in

this

> > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or

> > female?

> > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

whether

> > it is

> > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it

is

> > of a

> > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here

> > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the

predictive

> > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws

> > given

> > > > for

> > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes,

we

> > will

> > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I

SAID

> > SO " ,

> > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool.

It we

> > > > fail,

> > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime

rules

> > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some

> > point

> > > > of

> > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

> > > > > experiments.

> > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from

> > > > horoscope)

> > > > > ---------------------------

----

> > ----

> > > > -

> > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

horoscopes.

> > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided

> > here'.

> > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

horoscope

> > is of

> > > > a

> > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for

> > > > > validation.

> > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for

BT

> > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

corrected

> > only

> > > > to

> > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

summarized at

> > > > the

> > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules

> > > > provided

> > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none

but

> > the

> > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from

horoscope)

> > > > > ---------------------------

---

> > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should

> > inform

> > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a

male

> > or

> > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his

private

> > > > mail.

> > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to

become the

> > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e.

> > > > trustee)

> > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and

> > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

> > horoscopes]

> > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time

provided

> > as

> > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope

of

> > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.

> > (otherwise

> > > > it

> > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or

> > > > female.

> > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given

> > would be

> > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and

its

> > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

> > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

participants.

> > I

> > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual

> > data),

> > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

experiment.

> > Now

> > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will

> > provide,

> > > > at

> > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience

provide,

> > > > once

> > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs

in

> > the

> > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > > > participants

> > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > >

+=============================================================+

> > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

horoscope)|

> > > > >

+=============================================================+

> > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a

male or

> > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are

the 'only

> > > > rules

> > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

> > CONSIDERED

> > > > in

> > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in

brackets

> > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > --------

> > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

Male

> > > > planets

> > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

> > male.

> > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

luck is

> > the

> > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

> > well.

> > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male.

Male

> > > > planets

> > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3

> > points]

> > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > --------

> > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is

female.

> > > > Female

> > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then

it is

> > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul

and

> > > > luck

> > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

Navamsa

> > as

> > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female.

> > Female

> > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic

> > behind.

> > > > > [3 points]

> > > > >

> > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It

is

> > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the

> > majority

> > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to

assign

> > 2

> > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own

house,

> > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion

> > about

> > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will

keep

> > the

> > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > > > proceeding.

> > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

classics.

> > Even

> > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates

menses

> > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of female

> > birth as

> > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

considerations.

> > Sa is

> > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But

it

> > is

> > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11

> > indicates

> > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it

> > > > clarifies.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

> > of " modern "

> > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or

> > > > > prediction

> > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically

with

> > every

> > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a

> > > > hospital

> > > > > and

> > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various

visible

> > and

> > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan

and

> > > > other

> > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor

> > gives

> > > > an

> > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the

count

> > is

> > > > > above

> > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that.

> > even

> > > > > though

> > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a

> > million

> > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then

these

> > > > doctors

> > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning

crores,

> > > > > whenever

> > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to

sign a

> > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient

dies,

> > > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best

hospitals

> > like

> > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers

take

> > > > > refuge

> > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

acquired,

> > > > earned

> > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering

or

> > > > > happiness

> > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role,

> > for the

> > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such

cases,

> > an

> > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself

that

> > > > this

> > > > > is

> > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the

> > native

> > > > and

> > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is

the

> > > > report

> > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting

name

> > and

> > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I

SAID

> > SO " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and

stop

> > > > taking

> > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions

fail

> > > > even

> > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own

> > reputation

> > > > > with

> > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR

> > FUTURE

> > > > IS

> > > > > IN

> > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > , Panditji

> > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

happened and

> > > > won't

> > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

credibility.

> > > > There

> > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is

close

> > > > they

> > > > > can

> > > > > > read

> > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading.

Most

> > of

> > > > it

> > > > > is what

> > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in

> > rashi and

> > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The

> > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known

> > astrologers

> > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

election

> > time.

> > > > If

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change

of

> > > > > residence

> > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If

bush

> > had

> > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do

we

> > need

> > > > > all the

> > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not

> > predict

> > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a

> > > > serious

> > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are

not

> > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

> > willing to

> > > > > share

> > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to

all

> > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy

and

> > > > blind

> > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

visible. in

> > > > this

> > > > > group

> > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and

open

> > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is

very

> > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to

> > > > astrology

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan

breathed

> > his

> > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at

P D

> > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not

only

> > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > astrologers

> > > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan,

had

> > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or

prime

> > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

continue to

> > be

> > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected

once

> > > > again. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post

in

> > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding

from

> > 2009,

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

predicted

> > that

> > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007

despite

> > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would

be a

> > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under

aspect of

> > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and

thus

> > not

> > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to

occupy a

> > good

> > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he

> > would

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven

> > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

Vajpayee

> > had

> > > > > added

> > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future

leader

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said

that

> > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT

> > before he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting

took

> > > > place,

> > > > > every

> > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not

i.e. as

> > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

astrologers

> > > > jumped

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL

CHART OF

> > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when

> > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a

> > > > different

> > > > > date

> > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the

> > drama

> > > > > further

> > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ

> > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

astrologer's

> > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place

> > (hyderabad

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in

> > future,

> > > > > before

> > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion

shall

> > > > take

> > > > > place

> > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet

has

> > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will

> > only

> > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the

source

> > of

> > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you

have

> > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

> > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding

Prashna

> > from

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

May 17, 2006

Dear Shreenadhji,

What a wonderful post!

U have written:

The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth

to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda)

should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

My question is how much time does it take to be born?

Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is

there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

They say that death is not instantaneous - but may take some time

(for the body to be disengaged from the mind...or for the mind to

dissolve?)....so I suppose birth should also take some time to

happen. So then how does one determine the birth time? Isn't there a

range of time for birth too?

And then how does one determine this range of time (if it is a range

of time and not a very precise second or a fraction of a second)?Is

it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head

first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)???.

Now i am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not

minutes for such things to happen.

What do the ancient texts say about this???

The reason i am asking this is that with my very limited

understanding i tried the exercise on the kunda. Earlier i had

rectified my birth time by 2 minutes and 15 seconds because this

meant a change in the Navamsa lagna which matched the 7th house of

my husband just like my 7th house matched with his (exact to the

rasi and planets in the rasi). With the kunda method the trine of

the birth nakshatra matches with the kunda if i move the time

backward by 15 seconds. This made me wonder whether birth takes a

while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

BTW, many, many thanks for the Vyasa sign post. U have taken great

pains typing such a detailed message......it definetely deserves a

lot more time and attention on my part to understand what it means

Love,

Vinita

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Panditji,

> > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

right ?

> As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa

> (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are

also

> mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But

that

> is not relevent here.

> > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

correct ?

> Yes.

> The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

birth

> to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

(Kunda)

> should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and

the

> maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or

> minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora,

Brihal

> prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra

hari

> is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are

> going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like,

when

> the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported

> method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the

only

> thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth

> time, this method is not going to help.

> There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files

> section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look at

it

> to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

as 'Varga

> chtushtaya methods'.

> P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

because,

> JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9)

and

> Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is

> calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

> seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected,

Kunda

> and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is

> made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

followed

> JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.

> I hope it clarifies.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , Panditji

> <navagraha@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Thanks for this info.

> >

> > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

right ?

> >

> > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

correct ?

> >

> > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly defined.

> >

> > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not

sure

> exactly

> > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to

> verify

> > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> >

> > Thanks as always

> >

> > ...

> >

> > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji,

> > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to

Lagna

> > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will

> prefer

> > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

generalized

> form)

> > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and

> > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

> instead

> > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

Navamsa.

> Nava

> > > = 9.

> > >

> > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the

native

> > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered

> > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides

the

> > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in

which

> star

> > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

longitude

> > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

> > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By

error

> > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and

> > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and

is

> an

> > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

expunging of

> > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has

> already

> > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as

per

> > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Panditji

> > >

> > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > >

> > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do

not

> > > recall

> > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > >

> > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big

> pandora

> > > box of

> > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we

> should

> > > ask

> > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to

share

> > > their

> > > > findings.

> > > >

> > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message

from

> > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> know?'

> > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

> curiosity

> > > for

> > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

> horoscope

> > > is

> > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

conduct

> in a

> > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the

> > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the

message

> I

> > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

Arjunji

> in

> > > the

> > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented

before

> > > all.

> > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are

not

> > > proper

> > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try

to

> > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message,

and

> we

> > > will

> > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > >

> > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

> sincerity

> > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> residence ?

> > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

understanding of

> > > basic

> > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or

both.

> > > > > > <==

> > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

verification'

> of

> > > the

> > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here

in

> this

> > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male

or

> > > female?

> > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

> whether

> > > it is

> > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether

it

> is

> > > of a

> > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given

here

> > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the

> predictive

> > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime

laws

> > > given

> > > > > for

> > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

horoscopes,

> we

> > > will

> > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I

> SAID

> > > SO " ,

> > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the

tool.

> It we

> > > > > fail,

> > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime

> rules

> > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at

some

> > > point

> > > > > of

> > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct

similar

> > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification

from

> > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > ------------------------

---

> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > -

> > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> horoscopes.

> > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws

provided

> > > here'.

> > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> horoscope

> > > is of

> > > > > a

> > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes

for

> > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used

for

> BT

> > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> corrected

> > > only

> > > > > to

> > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> summarized at

> > > > > the

> > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic

rules

> > > > > provided

> > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to

none

> but

> > > the

> > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from

> horoscope)

> > > > > > ------------------------

---

> ---

> > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope

should

> > > inform

> > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of

a

> male

> > > or

> > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his

> private

> > > > > mail.

> > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to

> become the

> > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact

(i.e.

> > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment,

and

> > > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

> > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time

> provided

> > > as

> > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

horoscope

> of

> > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.

> > > (otherwise

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a

male or

> > > > > female.

> > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is

given

> > > would be

> > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth

and

> its

> > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize

the

> > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> participants.

> > > I

> > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the

actual

> > > data),

> > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> experiment.

> > > Now

> > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will

> > > provide,

> > > > > at

> > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience

> provide,

> > > > > once

> > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee

informs

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > > > > participants

> > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > >

> +=============================================================+

> > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> horoscope)|

> > > > > >

> +=============================================================+

> > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a

> male or

> > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are

> the 'only

> > > > > rules

> > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

> > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > in

> > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in

> brackets

> > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > --------

> > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

> Male

> > > > > planets

> > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then

it is

> > > male.

> > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

> luck is

> > > the

> > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa

as

> > > well.

> > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male.

> Male

> > > > > planets

> > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.

[3

> > > points]

> > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > --------

> > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is

> female.

> > > > > Female

> > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

points]

> > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign,

then

> it is

> > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind,

soul

> and

> > > > > luck

> > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> Navamsa

> > > as

> > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a

female.

> > > Female

> > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the

logic

> > > behind.

> > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female.

It

> is

> > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the

> > > majority

> > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to

> assign

> > > 2

> > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own

> house,

> > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your

opinion

> > > about

> > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who

will

> keep

> > > the

> > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

> classics.

> > > Even

> > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

indicates

> menses

> > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of

female

> > > birth as

> > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> considerations.

> > > Sa is

> > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent.

But

> it

> > > is

> > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11

> > > indicates

> > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think

it

> > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

> > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

dasas) or

> > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

drastrically

> with

> > > every

> > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes

to a

> > > > > hospital

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various

> visible

> > > and

> > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray,

scan

> and

> > > > > other

> > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the

doctor

> > > gives

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if

the

> count

> > > is

> > > > > > above

> > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or

that.

> > > even

> > > > > > though

> > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more

than a

> > > million

> > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then

> these

> > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning

> crores,

> > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to

> sign a

> > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

patient

> dies,

> > > > > there

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best

> hospitals

> > > like

> > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

astrologers

> take

> > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

> acquired,

> > > > > earned

> > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

suffering

> or

> > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no

role,

> > > for the

> > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such

> cases,

> > > an

> > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction

itself

> that

> > > > > this

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by

the

> > > native

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it

is

> the

> > > > > report

> > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

getting

> name

> > > and

> > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED "

or " I

> SAID

> > > SO " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims

and

> stop

> > > > > taking

> > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

predictions

> fail

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own

> > > reputation

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

true " YOUR

> > > FUTURE

> > > > > IS

> > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > ,

Panditji

> > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

> happened and

> > > > > won't

> > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

> credibility.

> > > > > There

> > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election

is

> close

> > > > > they

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

reading.

> Most

> > > of

> > > > > it

> > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where

in

> > > rashi and

> > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts.

The

> > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known

> > > astrologers

> > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

> election

> > > time.

> > > > > If

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict

change

> of

> > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections.

If

> bush

> > > had

> > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why

do

> we

> > > need

> > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we

not

> > > predict

> > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there

is a

> > > > > serious

> > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles

are

> not

> > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

> > > willing to

> > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely

to

> all

> > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

sycophancy

> and

> > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> visible. in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views

and

> open

> > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which

is

> very

> > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute

to

> > > > > astrology

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan

> breathed

> > > his

> > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life

at

> P D

> > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister

not

> only

> > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > > astrologers

> > > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

Gopalakrishnan,

> had

> > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or

> prime

> > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> continue to

> > > be

> > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

elected

> once

> > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest

post

> in

> > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding

> from

> > > 2009,

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

> predicted

> > > that

> > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007

> despite

> > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006

would

> be a

> > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under

> aspect of

> > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house

and

> thus

> > > not

> > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to

> occupy a

> > > good

> > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these

years he

> > > would

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-

Ven

> > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

> Vajpayee

> > > had

> > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future

> leader

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically

said

> that

> > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT

> > > before he

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting

> took

> > > > > place,

> > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not

> i.e. as

> > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> astrologers

> > > > > jumped

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL

> CHART OF

> > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that

when

> > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing

a

> > > > > different

> > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government.

the

> > > drama

> > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO

READ

> > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> astrologer's

> > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place

> > > (hyderabad

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in

> > > future,

> > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

discussion

> shall

> > > > > take

> > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > >

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

Asianet

> has

> > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement

will

> > > only

> > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the

> source

> > > of

> > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As

you

> have

> > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

> > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding

> Prashna

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

May 17, 2006

Namaste,

Thanks for the post. We still need to answer whether a chart is male or female ? Assuming that the TOB is correct how will you know whether the chart in front of you is male or female ? Can Nav Navansha or Kunda answer this question ? If it falls in male sign then male in female sign female ?

....

On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

Dear Panditji,

> When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right ?

As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are also mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But that

is not relevent here.

> Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, correct ?

Yes.The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda) should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> Have you done this on known charts to verify> whether the method works unfailingly ?

This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora, Brihal prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra hari is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like, when the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the only thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth time, this method is not going to help.There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look at it to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known as 'Varga chtushtaya methods'.P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora because, JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9) and Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected, Kunda and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method followed JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.I hope it clarifies.Love,Sreenadh

, Panditji

<navagraha wrote:>> Namaste,> > Thanks for this info.> > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, right ?> > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, correct ?

> > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly defined.> > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not sure exactly> what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to verify> whether the method works unfailingly ?> > Thanks as always> > ...> >

> On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:> >> > Dear Panditji,> > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha> > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to Lagna

> > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will prefer> > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the generalized form)> > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.> > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 and

> > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters instead> > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava Navamsa. Nava> > = 9.> >> > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the native

> > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered> > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora provides the> > Kunda longitude which is accurate.> > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in which star> > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda longitude> > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.> > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By error

> > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and> > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and is an> > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of expunging of

> > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has already> > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given as per> > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >> >

, Panditji> >> > <navagraha@> wrote:> > >> > > Namaste Sreenadhji,> > >> > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do not

> > recall> > > exactly how it was done.> > >> > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big pandora> > box of> > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we should> > ask> > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to share> > their> > > findings.> > >> > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > >> > > ...> > >> > >> > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message from

> > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I know?' > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the curiosity> > for> > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the horoscope> > is> > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can conduct in a> > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting the> > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the message I> > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and Arjunji in> > the> > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented before> > all.

> > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are not> > proper> > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and try to> > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, and we> > will> > > > continue with our normal discussions.> > > > Love,> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >> > > >

, " Sreenadh " > > > >> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,> > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the sincerity> > > > > involved.> > > > > Panditji said:> > > > > ==>> > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ?

> > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of> > basic> > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or both.> > > > > <==

> > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective verification' of> > the> > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we (here in this> > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male or

> > female?> > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing whether> > it is> > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether it is> > of a> > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given here> > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the predictive> > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime laws

> > given> > > > for> > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 horoscopes, we> > will> > > > > compare it with the actual.> > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID> > SO " ,> > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the tool. It we> > > > fail,> > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime rules> > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at some> > point> > > > of> > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct similar

> > > > > experiments.> > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification from> > > > horoscope)> > > > > ---------------------------

----> > ----> > > > -> > > > > * All participants should validate all the given horoscopes.> > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws provided

> > here'.> > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the horoscope> > is of> > > > a> > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide horoscopes for

> > > > > validation.> > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used for BT> > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

corrected> > only> > > > to> > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].> > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be summarized at> > > > the

> > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic rules> > > > provided> > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to none but> > the

> > > > > rules selected]> > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)> > > > > ---------------------------

---> > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope should> > inform> > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of a male> > or

> > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his private> > > > mail.> > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to become the

> > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact (i.e.> > > > trustee)> > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the experiment, and> > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

> > horoscopes]> > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time provided> > as> > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the horoscope of> > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.> > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.> > (otherwise> > > > it> > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a male or

> > > > female.> > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is given> > would be> > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth and its> > > > > Latitude and Longitude.> > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize the

> > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the participants.> > I> > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the actual> > data),

> > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the experiment. > > Now> > > > > the pre-requisites are -> > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I will> > provide,> > > > at> > > > > the end of the this mail]> > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience provide,> > > > once> > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee informs in> > the> > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > > > participants> > > > > should start to validate it]> > > > > +=============================================================+> > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|> > > > > +=============================================================+> > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or> > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only> > > > rules> > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE> > CONSIDERED> > > > in> > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets> > > > > I] Male.> > > > > --------> > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male> > > > planets> > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is> > male.> > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is> > the

> > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as> > well.> > > > > [4+4=8 points]> > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male> > > > planets> > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3> > points]> > > > > II] Female.> > > > > --------

> > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.> > > > Female> > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is> > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and> > > > luck> > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

Navamsa> > as> > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]> > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female.> > Female> > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic

> > behind.> > > > > [3 points]> > > > >> > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is> > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the

> > majority> > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign> > 2> > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own

house,> > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).> > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:> > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your opinion> > about> > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who will keep> > the

> > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before> > > > proceeding.> > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the classics.> > Even

> > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it indicates menses> > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of female> > birth as> > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these considerations.> > Sa is> > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. But it> > is> > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-11

> > indicates> > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I think it> > > > clarifies.> > > > > Love,> > > > > Sreenadh> > > > >

> > > > > --- In> >

, " panditarjun2004 " > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > dear panditji> > > > > >> > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

> > of " modern " > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or> > > > > prediction> > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with> > every> > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a> > > > hospital> > > > > and> > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible> > and> > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and> > > > other> > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor

> > gives> > > > an> > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count> > is> > > > > above> > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that.

> > even> > > > > though> > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a> > million> > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these> > > > doctors> > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores,> > > > > whenever> > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a> > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies,> > > > there> > > > > is> > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals> > like> > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.> > > > > >> > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take> > > > > refuge> > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired,> > > > earned> > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or> > > > > happiness> > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role,> > for the> > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases,> > an> > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that> > > > this> > > > > is> > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the

> > native> > > > and> > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the> > > > report> > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > > > responsibility,> > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name> > and> > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID> > SO " .> > > > > >> > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop> > > > taking> > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail> > > > even> > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own> > reputation> > > > > with> > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR

> > FUTURE> > > > IS> > > > > IN> > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .> > > > > >> > > > > > with best wishes> > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > , Panditji

> > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and> > > > won't> > > > > > be the> > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility.> > > > There

> > > > > > are very> > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close> > > > they> > > > > can> > > > > > read

> > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most> > of> > > > it> > > > > is what> > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in

> > rashi and> > > > > > ofcourse> > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The> > > > > conclusion is> > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known> > astrologers> > > > > predicted> > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to election> > time.> > > > If> > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of> > > > > residence

> > > > > > ? Thats> > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush> > had> > > > > lost the> > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we> > need> > > > > all the> > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not> > predict> > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a> > > > serious> > > > > lack of> > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not> > > > > > repeatable or> > > > > > > both.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ...> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

> > willing to> > > > > share> > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all> > > > > willing> > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and> > > > blind> > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in> > > > this> > > > > group> > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open> > > > > discussion> > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very> > > > > healthy> > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to> > > > astrology> > > > > so> > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered> > > > > > > > ANI> > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54> > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed> > his> > > > > last on> > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D> > > > > Hinduja> > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only> > > > > created a> > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > astrologers> > > > on> > > > > the> > > > > > > > wrong foot.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had> > > > > predicted> > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime> > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to> > be> > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once> > > > again. " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in> > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from> > 2009,> > > > > which> > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted> > that> > > > > Mahajan> > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite> > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would

be a> > > > > period of> > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of> > > > > Jupiter it> > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus> > not> > > > > poised> > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. " > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a> > good> > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he> > would> > > > be> > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven

> > (1/3), " > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

Vajpayee> > had> > > > > added> > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader> > of> > > > the> > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that> > > > > Mahajan and> > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > ----> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT

> > before he> > > > > was> > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took> > > > place,> > > > > every

> > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as> > > > > simple as> > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers> > > > jumped> > > > > to> > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF> > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when> > > > > parliament of> > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a

> > > > different> > > > > date> > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the> > drama> > > > > further

> > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ> > > > PRAMOD'S> > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

astrologer's> > > > > changing> > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place> > (hyderabad> > > > or> > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in

> > future,> > > > > before> > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall> > > > take> > > > > place

> > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > with best wishes> > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > --- In> > > > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has> > > > > reported,a> > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will> > only> > > > > come on> > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source> > of> > > > > birth> > > > > > > > time> > > > > > > > > authentic.> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji> > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have> > > > > rightly> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling> > > > themselves,by> > > > > > > > giving> > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna> > from> > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Kind Regds> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

May 18, 2006

Dear Pandit ji,

In every chart both male and female nature (male and female

indications) are present. It is the majority points that determine

whether a chart is of a male or female as per astrology. I have

detailed it in the last portion of my first message on this issue.

Please read it again. For your conveniance I am pasting that here

again.

+=============================================================+

|Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

+=============================================================+

The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules

that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in

this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

I] Male.

--------

1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets

in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the

logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.

[4+4=8 points]

3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets

in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]

II] Female.

--------

1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female

planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck

is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

well. [4+4=8 points]

3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female

planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.

[3 points]

Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority

points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2

points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

13+2= 15 points

I hope the rules are clear. The rules I laid out are well supported

by the classics. Even though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

indicates menses classics consider its placement to be indicative of

female birth as well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

considerations. Sa is said to indicate male impotent, and Me female

impotent. But it is said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-

5-7-9-11 indicates male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

think it clarifies.

Love,

Sreenadh

, Panditji

<navagraha wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Thanks for the post. We still need to answer whether a chart is

male or

> female ? Assuming that the TOB is correct how will you know whether

the

> chart in front of you is male or female ? Can Nav Navansha or

Kunda answer

> this question ? If it falls in male sign then male in female sign

female ?

>

> ...

>

> On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Panditji,

> >

> > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

right ?

> > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa

> > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are

also

> > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But

that

> > is not relevent here.

> >

> > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

correct ?

> > Yes.

> > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

birth

> > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

(Kunda)

> > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> >

> > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the

> > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or

> > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora,

Brihal

> > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra

hari

> > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are

> > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like,

when

> > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported

> > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the

only

> > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth

> > time, this method is not going to help.

> > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files

> > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look

at it

> > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

as 'Varga

> > chtushtaya methods'.

> > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

because,

> > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9)

and

> > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is

> > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

> > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected,

Kunda

> > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is

> > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

followed

> > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.

> > I hope it clarifies.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Panditji

> >

> > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Thanks for this info.

> > >

> > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

right ?

> > >

> > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

correct ?

> > >

> > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly

defined.

> > >

> > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not

sure

> > exactly

> > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to

> > verify

> > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > >

> > > Thanks as always

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to

Lagna

> > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will

> > prefer

> > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

generalized

> > form)

> > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1

and

> > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

> > instead

> > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

Navamsa.

> > Nava

> > > > = 9.

> > > >

> > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the

native

> > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered

> > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora

provides the

> > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in

which

> > star

> > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

longitude

> > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

> > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By

error

> > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and

> > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and

is

> > an

> > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

expunging of

> > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has

> > already

> > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given

as per

> > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , Panditji

> > > >

> > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do

not

> > > > recall

> > > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big

> > pandora

> > > > box of

> > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we

> > should

> > > > ask

> > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to

share

> > > > their

> > > > > findings.

> > > > >

> > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message

from

> > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> > know?'

> > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

> > curiosity

> > > > for

> > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

> > horoscope

> > > > is

> > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

conduct

> > in a

> > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting

the

> > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the

message

> > I

> > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

Arjunji

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented

before

> > > > all.

> > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are

not

> > > > proper

> > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and

try to

> > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message,

and

> > we

> > > > will

> > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

> > sincerity

> > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> > residence ?

> > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

understanding of

> > > > basic

> > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or

both.

> > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

verification'

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we

(here in

> > this

> > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male

or

> > > > female?

> > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

> > whether

> > > > it is

> > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether

it

> > is

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given

here

> > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the

> > predictive

> > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime

laws

> > > > given

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

horoscopes,

> > we

> > > > will

> > > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I

> > SAID

> > > > SO " ,

> > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the

tool.

> > It we

> > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime

> > rules

> > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at

some

> > > > point

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct

similar

> > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification

from

> > > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > -----------------------

----

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws

provided

> > > > here'.

> > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> > horoscope

> > > > is of

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide

horoscopes for

> > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used

for

> > BT

> > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> > corrected

> > > > only

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > summarized at

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic

rules

> > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to

none

> > but

> > > > the

> > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from

> > horoscope)

> > > > > > > -----------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope

should

> > > > inform

> > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of

a

> > male

> > > > or

> > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his

> > private

> > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to

> > become the

> > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact

(i.e.

> > > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the

experiment, and

> > > > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

> > > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time

> > provided

> > > > as

> > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

horoscope

> > of

> > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.

> > > > (otherwise

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a

male or

> > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is

given

> > > > would be

> > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth

and

> > its

> > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize

the

> > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> > participants.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the

actual

> > > > data),

> > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > experiment.

> > > > Now

> > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I

will

> > > > provide,

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience

> > provide,

> > > > > > once

> > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee

informs

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > > > > > participants

> > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > >

> > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> > horoscope)|

> > > > > > >

> > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a

> > male or

> > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are

> > the 'only

> > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

> > > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in

> > brackets

> > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

> > Male

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then

it is

> > > > male.

> > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

> > luck is

> > > > the

> > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

Navamsa as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male.

> > Male

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic

behind. [3

> > > > points]

> > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is

> > female.

> > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

points]

> > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign,

then

> > it is

> > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind,

soul

> > and

> > > > > > luck

> > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> > Navamsa

> > > > as

> > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a

female.

> > > > Female

> > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the

logic

> > > > behind.

> > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for

Female. It

> > is

> > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on

the

> > > > majority

> > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to

> > assign

> > > > 2

> > > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own

> > house,

> > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your

opinion

> > > > about

> > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who

will

> > keep

> > > > the

> > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

> > classics.

> > > > Even

> > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

indicates

> > menses

> > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of

female

> > > > birth as

> > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > considerations.

> > > > Sa is

> > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent.

But

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-

11

> > > > indicates

> > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

think it

> > > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

> > > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

dasas) or

> > > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

drastrically

> > with

> > > > every

> > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes

to a

> > > > > > hospital

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various

> > visible

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray,

scan

> > and

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the

doctor

> > > > gives

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if

the

> > count

> > > > is

> > > > > > > above

> > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or

that.

> > > > even

> > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more

than a

> > > > million

> > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then

> > these

> > > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning

> > crores,

> > > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to

> > sign a

> > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

patient

> > dies,

> > > > > > there

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best

> > hospitals

> > > > like

> > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

astrologers

> > take

> > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

> > acquired,

> > > > > > earned

> > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

suffering

> > or

> > > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no

role,

> > > > for the

> > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such

> > cases,

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction

itself

> > that

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by

the

> > > > native

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes,

it is

> > the

> > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

getting

> > name

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED "

or " I

> > SAID

> > > > SO " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims

and

> > stop

> > > > > > taking

> > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

predictions

> > fail

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own

> > > > reputation

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

true " YOUR

> > > > FUTURE

> > > > > > IS

> > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > ,

Panditji

> > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

> > happened and

> > > > > > won't

> > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

> > credibility.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election

is

> > close

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

reading.

> > Most

> > > > of

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where

in

> > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional

charts. The

> > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

> > election

> > > > time.

> > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict

change

> > of

> > > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections.

If

> > bush

> > > > had

> > > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now

why do

> > we

> > > > need

> > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can

we not

> > > > predict

> > > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there

is a

> > > > > > serious

> > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles

are

> > not

> > > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

> > > > willing to

> > > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt

freely to

> > all

> > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

sycophancy

> > and

> > > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > visible. in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views

and

> > open

> > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed

which is

> > very

> > > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute

to

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan

> > breathed

> > > > his

> > > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for

life at

> > P D

> > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister

not

> > only

> > > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

Gopalakrishnan,

> > had

> > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or

> > prime

> > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> > continue to

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

elected

> > once

> > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest

post

> > in

> > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding

> > from

> > > > 2009,

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

> > predicted

> > > > that

> > > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007

> > despite

> > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006

would

> > be a

> > > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under

> > aspect of

> > > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house

and

> > thus

> > > > not

> > > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to

> > occupy a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these

years he

> > > > would

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu,

Merc-Ven

> > > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

> > Vajpayee

> > > > had

> > > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future

> > leader

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically

said

> > that

> > > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT

AT

> > > > before he

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting

> > took

> > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not

> > i.e. as

> > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> > astrologers

> > > > > > jumped

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL

> > CHART OF

> > > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that

when

> > > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is

showing a

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government.

the

> > > > drama

> > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO

READ

> > > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > astrologer's

> > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place

> > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas.

in

> > > > future,

> > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

discussion

> > shall

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

Asianet

> > has

> > > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement

will

> > > > only

> > > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the

> > source

> > > > of

> > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As

you

> > have

> > > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

> > > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding

> > Prashna

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

May 18, 2006

Dear Vinita ji,

You and RK ji always make me write long mails, by posting some

simple, small but indepth queries always. My response to RK ji is

still pending and to this I respond now.

You said:

=>

My question is how much time does it take to be born?

Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is

there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

<=

Birth does not take place in a moment – you and me know. I don't

think any explanation is necessary on that. But the horoscope is cast

based on some exact moment (correct to seconds), that is supposed to

reflect the rhythm of destiny – I think some explanation is necessary

on that.

Let us start from the first question

Which is the correct Birth Time?

-----------

=>

Is it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head

first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)???.

Now i am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not

minutes for such things to happen.

<=

Yes, you are right – and also right in judging what I can say –

" What do the ancient texts say about this??? "

Of course I should agree that even the Rishis have different opinion

on this – but luckily their basic opinion is not different.

The Birth time is -

1) The time at which head, feet or hand comes out – supported by

Saravali, Garga Jataka

2) The time at which placenta breaks (Gerbhodaka sruti) –

supported by Brihat Sounaka hora, Saravali

3) The time at which umbilical cord is cut – supported by none.

4) The time of first breath - supported by none.

5) The time of first cry – supported by none.

6) Time of union of sperm with ovum (Aadhana) – supported by

Saravali, Leghu Jatakam

7) The time at which forehead is seen – Saravali

8) The time of first touching the earth – Saravali

Note that Saravali itself supports 5 of this methods. There is a

sloka in Saravali that explicitly states the same as well. Destiny is

also predicted based on – Time of marriage, Time of first menses for

girls etc. So what is the generalization? Let us give it as no.9

9) Based on any moment that very closely related to an

individual, based on any moment that is very important in his life,

the pattern of destiny can be predicted.

I think that last option clearly depicts the actual view of the

Rishis. Now it is not possible to collect the exact moment of any of

the above - so even in that period they had no other option but to

resort to the mathematical methods for determining the exact moment

that depicts destiny, once the approximate BT is got. Therefore the

mathematical methods given below gets more importance than the above

points. All of them just gives the approximate birth time, since

birth is a process that takes many minutes.

Now the question to be answered is – does, Rishi horas support the

use of such mathematical methods? Yes. Vasishta hora says –

Sastrokta margena sulegnakalam samaneyam

Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should

be corrected following the ancient advice.

Kasyapa hora says –

Sidhantoktena margena lagnakalam presadhayet

Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant) should

be corrected following mathematical methods.

There fore we need to search for the mathematical methods that were

in use to find the precious moment (exact to the seconds) that

depicts the rhythm of destiny for that person. (Could it be there

more than one such points for a single person? OK. I live it for you

to think) Such methods I got from ancient texts are –

1) Pancha Tatwa method – partially supported by Uttara

kalamrita, Yajcha valkya smriti

2) Kunda method – supported by Sounaka hora, Brihal prajapatya,

Varaha hora

3) Navams Dwadasamsa – Brihat Prajapatya

4) Varga chatushtaya method – Skanda hora, Brihat prajaptyam,

Sounaka hora, Prasna ratna, Prasnamarga.

5) Birth time ghati-vighati - Uttara kalamrita.

I thinks these are the most important methods that are available.

* The first method has the advantage that it helps for BT

rectification for even more than 10 min at times. But this method is

not well supported by classics.

* The 2nd and 3rd are just part of the 4th method. So I reject them.

* The Varga chatushtaya method is well supported by Rishi horas and

seems to have been in use for long. This is the most authentic

method.

* The 5th method does not find any support in Rishi horas.

So the conclusion is that,

• We need to know the approximate birth time. (take any)

• To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and

Pancha tatwa method.

This is the conclusion I got.

Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna

sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasna sara, phaladeepika unanimously.

=>

This made me wonder whether birth takes a

while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

<=

As per ancient definitions, birth takes a while, but the horoscope is

created based on a mathematically corrected moment within that span,

which is supposed to depict the destiny more accurately for that

individual.

P.S: Dear Vinita ji, now don't come up with asking – what is Varga

chatushtaya method? Etc – first go and see that `Birth rectification'

file in the filese section. It is said that a ripple creates

thousand ripples. Similar is a questions – the result is thousands of

questions. ) But yes, that is the right way of learning.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Dear Shreenadhji,

>

> What a wonderful post!

>

> U have written:

> The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for birth

> to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa (Kunda)

> should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

>

> My question is how much time does it take to be born?

> Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is

> there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

>

> They say that death is not instantaneous - but may take some time

> (for the body to be disengaged from the mind...or for the mind to

> dissolve?)....so I suppose birth should also take some time to

> happen. So then how does one determine the birth time? Isn't there

a

> range of time for birth too?

>

> And then how does one determine this range of time (if it is a

range

> of time and not a very precise second or a fraction of a second)?Is

> it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head

> first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)???.

> Now i am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not

> minutes for such things to happen.

>

> What do the ancient texts say about this???

>

> The reason i am asking this is that with my very limited

> understanding i tried the exercise on the kunda. Earlier i had

> rectified my birth time by 2 minutes and 15 seconds because this

> meant a change in the Navamsa lagna which matched the 7th house of

> my husband just like my 7th house matched with his (exact to the

> rasi and planets in the rasi). With the kunda method the trine of

> the birth nakshatra matches with the kunda if i move the time

> backward by 15 seconds. This made me wonder whether birth takes a

> while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

>

> BTW, many, many thanks for the Vyasa sign post. U have taken great

> pains typing such a detailed message......it definetely deserves a

> lot more time and attention on my part to understand what it

means

>

> Love,

>

> Vinita

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Panditji,

> > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> right ?

> > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava

navamsa

> > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are

> also

> > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But

> that

> > is not relevent here.

> > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> correct ?

> > Yes.

> > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

> birth

> > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

> (Kunda)

> > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and

> the

> > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or

> > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora,

> Brihal

> > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra

> hari

> > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are

> > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like,

> when

> > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported

> > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the

> only

> > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth

> > time, this method is not going to help.

> > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files

> > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look

at

> it

> > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

> as 'Varga

> > chtushtaya methods'.

> > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

> because,

> > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9)

> and

> > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is

> > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

> > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected,

> Kunda

> > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is

> > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

> followed

> > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.

> > I hope it clarifies.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , Panditji

> > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Thanks for this info.

> > >

> > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> right ?

> > >

> > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> correct ?

> > >

> > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly

defined.

> > >

> > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not

> sure

> > exactly

> > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts

to

> > verify

> > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > >

> > > Thanks as always

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to

> Lagna

> > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will

> > prefer

> > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

> generalized

> > form)

> > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1

and

> > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

> > instead

> > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

> Navamsa.

> > Nava

> > > > = 9.

> > > >

> > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the

> native

> > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered

> > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora

provides

> the

> > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in

> which

> > star

> > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

> longitude

> > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.

> > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By

> error

> > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and

> > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and

> is

> > an

> > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

> expunging of

> > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has

> > already

> > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given

as

> per

> > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , Panditji

> > > >

> > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do

> not

> > > > recall

> > > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big

> > pandora

> > > > box of

> > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we

> > should

> > > > ask

> > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to

> share

> > > > their

> > > > > findings.

> > > > >

> > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message

> from

> > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> > know?'

> > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

> > curiosity

> > > > for

> > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

> > horoscope

> > > > is

> > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

> conduct

> > in a

> > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting

the

> > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the

> message

> > I

> > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

> Arjunji

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented

> before

> > > > all.

> > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are

> not

> > > > proper

> > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and

try

> to

> > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message,

> and

> > we

> > > > will

> > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

> > sincerity

> > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> > residence ?

> > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

> understanding of

> > > > basic

> > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or

> both.

> > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

> verification'

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we

(here

> in

> > this

> > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male

> or

> > > > female?

> > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

> > whether

> > > > it is

> > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether

> it

> > is

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given

> here

> > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the

> > predictive

> > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime

> laws

> > > > given

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

> horoscopes,

> > we

> > > > will

> > > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED "

or " I

> > SAID

> > > > SO " ,

> > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the

> tool.

> > It we

> > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime

> > rules

> > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at

> some

> > > > point

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct

> similar

> > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification

> from

> > > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > -----------------------

-

> ---

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws

> provided

> > > > here'.

> > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> > horoscope

> > > > is of

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide

horoscopes

> for

> > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used

> for

> > BT

> > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> > corrected

> > > > only

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > summarized at

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic

> rules

> > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to

> none

> > but

> > > > the

> > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from

> > horoscope)

> > > > > > > -----------------------

-

> ---

> > ---

> > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope

> should

> > > > inform

> > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is of

> a

> > male

> > > > or

> > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his

> > private

> > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to

> > become the

> > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact

> (i.e.

> > > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the

experiment,

> and

> > > > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or

> > > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time

> > provided

> > > > as

> > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

> horoscope

> > of

> > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.

> > > > (otherwise

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a

> male or

> > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is

> given

> > > > would be

> > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)

> > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth

> and

> > its

> > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize

> the

> > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> > participants.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the

> actual

> > > > data),

> > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > experiment.

> > > > Now

> > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I

will

> > > > provide,

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience

> > provide,

> > > > > > once

> > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee

> informs

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the

> > > > > > participants

> > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > >

> > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> > horoscope)|

> > > > > > >

> > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a

> > male or

> > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are

> > the 'only

> > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

> > > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in

> > brackets

> > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

male.

> > Male

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then

> it is

> > > > male.

> > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

> > luck is

> > > > the

> > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

Navamsa

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a

male.

> > Male

> > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic

behind.

> [3

> > > > points]

> > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is

> > female.

> > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

> points]

> > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign,

> then

> > it is

> > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind,

> soul

> > and

> > > > > > luck

> > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> > Navamsa

> > > > as

> > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a

> female.

> > > > Female

> > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the

> logic

> > > > behind.

> > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for

Female.

> It

> > is

> > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on

the

> > > > majority

> > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty

to

> > assign

> > > > 2

> > > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own

> > house,

> > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your

> opinion

> > > > about

> > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who

> will

> > keep

> > > > the

> > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before

> > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

> > classics.

> > > > Even

> > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

> indicates

> > menses

> > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of

> female

> > > > birth as

> > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > considerations.

> > > > Sa is

> > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent.

> But

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-

11

> > > > indicates

> > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

think

> it

> > > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding

> > > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

> dasas) or

> > > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

> drastrically

> > with

> > > > every

> > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes

> to a

> > > > > > hospital

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various

> > visible

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray,

> scan

> > and

> > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the

> doctor

> > > > gives

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if

> the

> > count

> > > > is

> > > > > > > above

> > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or

> that.

> > > > even

> > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more

> than a

> > > > million

> > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and

then

> > these

> > > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning

> > crores,

> > > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to

> > sign a

> > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

> patient

> > dies,

> > > > > > there

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best

> > hospitals

> > > > like

> > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

> astrologers

> > take

> > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

> > acquired,

> > > > > > earned

> > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

> suffering

> > or

> > > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no

> role,

> > > > for the

> > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such

> > cases,

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction

> itself

> > that

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by

> the

> > > > native

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes,

it

> is

> > the

> > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own

> > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

> getting

> > name

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED "

> or " I

> > SAID

> > > > SO " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims

> and

> > stop

> > > > > > taking

> > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

> predictions

> > fail

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own

> > > > reputation

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

> true " YOUR

> > > > FUTURE

> > > > > > IS

> > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > ,

> Panditji

> > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

> > happened and

> > > > > > won't

> > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

> > credibility.

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election

> is

> > close

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

> reading.

> > Most

> > > > of

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where

> in

> > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional

charts.

> The

> > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

> > election

> > > > time.

> > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict

> change

> > of

> > > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections.

> If

> > bush

> > > > had

> > > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now

why

> do

> > we

> > > > need

> > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can

we

> not

> > > > predict

> > > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there

> is a

> > > > > > serious

> > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles

> are

> > not

> > > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is

> > > > willing to

> > > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt

freely

> to

> > all

> > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

> sycophancy

> > and

> > > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > visible. in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views

> and

> > open

> > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed

which

> is

> > very

> > > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute

> to

> > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan

> > breathed

> > > > his

> > > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for

life

> at

> > P D

> > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister

> not

> > only

> > > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

> Gopalakrishnan,

> > had

> > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency

or

> > prime

> > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> > continue to

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

> elected

> > once

> > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest

> post

> > in

> > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is

unfolding

> > from

> > > > 2009,

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

> > predicted

> > > > that

> > > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007

> > despite

> > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006

> would

> > be a

> > > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under

> > aspect of

> > > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house

> and

> > thus

> > > > not

> > > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to

> > occupy a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these

> years he

> > > > would

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu,

Merc-

> Ven

> > > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

> > Vajpayee

> > > > had

> > > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a

future

> > leader

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically

> said

> > that

> > > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT

AT

> > > > before he

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the

shooting

> > took

> > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or

not

> > i.e. as

> > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> > astrologers

> > > > > > jumped

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL

> > CHART OF

> > > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that

> when

> > > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is

showing

> a

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government.

> the

> > > > drama

> > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO

> READ

> > > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > astrologer's

> > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place

> > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas.

in

> > > > future,

> > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

> discussion

> > shall

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

> Asianet

> > has

> > > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement

> will

> > > > only

> > > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the

> > source

> > > > of

> > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As

> you

> > have

> > > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling

> > > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding

> > Prashna

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

May 19, 2006

dear sreenadhji

firstly i regret for missing lot of action as my laptop and internet

connection both were under repair for four days. also for the first

time, it gave me immense satisfaction that here is a group where

true astrology (no nonsense) is discussed supported by classics and

this group is fast becoming a treasurehouse of astro knowledge as

pressure is put on the head of each astrologer member (self claimed

or declared) to show is knowledge and subject the same to

improvement or correction. only matured astros would participate in

such exercises and i wish this group all the success in spreading

the light of jyotish as laid in our classics but presented in a

languaged understandable to a modern man.

even while appreciating your principles of male planets in male

signs and female planets in female signs from a birthchart for

deciphering the gender, in my experience it is not foolproof even in

correct birthcharts. here comes the role of prashna chart. though

am not an expert in prashna chart, under the prashna principles, the

result is amazingly precise in deciphering the native's gender.

need few more days to read and respond to so many important threads

going on simultaneously and learn as much as i can and also add as

little value as i can.

with best wishes for the group in general and you in particular

pandit arjun

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Pandit ji,

> In every chart both male and female nature (male and female

> indications) are present. It is the majority points that determine

> whether a chart is of a male or female as per astrology. I have

> detailed it in the last portion of my first message on this issue.

> Please read it again. For your conveniance I am pasting that here

> again.

>

> +=============================================================+

> |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

> +=============================================================+

> The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

> female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only

rules

> that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED

in

> this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

> I] Male.

> --------

> 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male

planets

> in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.

> Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is

the

> logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.

> [4+4=8 points]

> 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male

planets

> in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3

points]

> II] Female.

> --------

> 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.

Female

> planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

luck

> is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

> well. [4+4=8 points]

> 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female

> planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic

behind.

> [3 points]

>

> Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

> determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority

> points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2

> points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

> Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> 13+2= 15 points

> I hope the rules are clear. The rules I laid out are well

supported

> by the classics. Even though Ma is said to be a male planet, since

it

> indicates menses classics consider its placement to be indicative

of

> female birth as well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> considerations. Sa is said to indicate male impotent, and Me

female

> impotent. But it is said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-

3-

> 5-7-9-11 indicates male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female

birth. I

> think it clarifies.

>

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , Panditji

> <navagraha@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Thanks for the post. We still need to answer whether a chart is

> male or

> > female ? Assuming that the TOB is correct how will you know

whether

> the

> > chart in front of you is male or female ? Can Nav Navansha or

> Kunda answer

> > this question ? If it falls in male sign then male in female

sign

> female ?

> >

> > ...

> >

> > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji,

> > >

> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> right ?

> > > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava

navamsa

> > > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are

> also

> > > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes.

But

> that

> > > is not relevent here.

> > >

> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> correct ?

> > > Yes.

> > > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

> birth

> > > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

> (Kunda)

> > > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> > >

> > > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and

the

> > > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus

or

> > > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora,

> Brihal

> > > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra

> hari

> > > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we

are

> > > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the

like,

> when

> > > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well

supported

> > > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the

> only

> > > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in

birth

> > > time, this method is not going to help.

> > > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the

files

> > > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a

look

> at it

> > > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

> as 'Varga

> > > chtushtaya methods'.

> > > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

> because,

> > > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R

x9)

> and

> > > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa

is

> > > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

> > > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected,

> Kunda

> > > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation

is

> > > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

> followed

> > > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is

OK.

> > > I hope it clarifies.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Panditji

> > >

> > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for this info.

> > > >

> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> right ?

> > > >

> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> correct ?

> > > >

> > > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly

> defined.

> > > >

> > > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,.

Not

> sure

> > > exactly

> > > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known

charts to

> > > verify

> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks as always

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to

> Lagna

> > > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I

will

> > > prefer

> > > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

> generalized

> > > form)

> > > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since,

Ku=1

> and

> > > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

> > > instead

> > > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

> Navamsa.

> > > Nava

> > > > > = 9.

> > > > >

> > > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of

the

> native

> > > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be

considered

> > > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora

> provides the

> > > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in

> which

> > > star

> > > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

> longitude

> > > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that

simple.

> > > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By

> error

> > > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both,

and

> > > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda

and

> is

> > > an

> > > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

> expunging of

> > > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has

> > > already

> > > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda

given

> as per

> > > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , Panditji

> > > > >

> > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but

do

> not

> > > > > recall

> > > > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a

big

> > > pandora

> > > > > box of

> > > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think

we

> > > should

> > > > > ask

> > > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques

to

> share

> > > > > their

> > > > > > findings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this

message

> from

> > > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> > > know?'

> > > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

> > > curiosity

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

> > > horoscope

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

> conduct

> > > in a

> > > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for

presenting

> the

> > > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the

> message

> > > I

> > > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

> Arjunji

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion

presented

> before

> > > > > all.

> > > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward

are

> not

> > > > > proper

> > > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and

> try to

> > > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this

message,

> and

> > > we

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

> > > sincerity

> > > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> > > residence ?

> > > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

> understanding of

> > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or

> both.

> > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

> verification'

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we

> (here in

> > > this

> > > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a

male

> or

> > > > > female?

> > > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

> > > whether

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify

whether

> it

> > > is

> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws

given

> here

> > > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the

> > > predictive

> > > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those

prime

> laws

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

> horoscopes,

> > > we

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED "

or " I

> > > SAID

> > > > > SO " ,

> > > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the

> tool.

> > > It we

> > > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of

the 'prime

> > > rules

> > > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later

at

> some

> > > > > point

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct

> similar

> > > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female

verification

> from

> > > > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > --------------------

---

> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> > > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws

> provided

> > > > > here'.

> > > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> > > horoscope

> > > > > is of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide

> horoscopes for

> > > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be

used

> for

> > > BT

> > > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> > > corrected

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > > summarized at

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the

basic

> rules

> > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to

> none

> > > but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from

> > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > --------------------

---

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope

> should

> > > > > inform

> > > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is

of

> a

> > > male

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through

his

> > > private

> > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to

> > > become the

> > > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the

fact

> (i.e.

> > > > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the

> experiment, and

> > > > > > > > should not make any comments about this

experiment or

> > > > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and

time

> > > provided

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

> horoscope

> > > of

> > > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not

mentioned.

> > > > > (otherwise

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a

> male or

> > > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is

> given

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the

experiment)

> > > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of

Birth

> and

> > > its

> > > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will

summarize

> the

> > > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> > > participants.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the

> actual

> > > > > data),

> > > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > > experiment.

> > > > > Now

> > > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I

> will

> > > > > provide,

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the

audience

> > > provide,

> > > > > > > once

> > > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee

> informs

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope,

the

> > > > > > > participants

> > > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > > >

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> > > horoscope)|

> > > > > > > >

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is

of a

> > > male or

> > > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are

> > > the 'only

> > > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD

BE

> > > > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given

in

> > > brackets

> > > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

male.

> > > Male

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign,

then

> it is

> > > > > male.

> > > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul

and

> > > luck is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> Navamsa as

> > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a

male.

> > > Male

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic

> behind. [3

> > > > > points]

> > > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it

is

> > > female.

> > > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

> points]

> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign,

> then

> > > it is

> > > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body,

mind,

> soul

> > > and

> > > > > > > luck

> > > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied

to

> > > Navamsa

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a

> female.

> > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is

the

> logic

> > > > > behind.

> > > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for

> Female. It

> > > is

> > > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based

on

> the

> > > > > majority

> > > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the

liberty to

> > > assign

> > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation,

Own

> > > house,

> > > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or

female).

> > > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get

is:

> > > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your

> opinion

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee

(who

> will

> > > keep

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end),

before

> > > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

> > > classics.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

> indicates

> > > menses

> > > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of

> female

> > > > > birth as

> > > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > > considerations.

> > > > > Sa is

> > > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female

impotent.

> But

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-

9-

> 11

> > > > > indicates

> > > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

> think it

> > > > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my

understanding

> > > > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

> dasas) or

> > > > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

> drastrically

> > > with

> > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient

goes

> to a

> > > > > > > hospital

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of

various

> > > visible

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine,

xray,

> scan

> > > and

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports,

the

> doctor

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that

if

> the

> > > count

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > above

> > > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this

or

> that.

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more

> than a

> > > > > million

> > > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and

then

> > > these

> > > > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by

earning

> > > crores,

> > > > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient

to

> > > sign a

> > > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

> patient

> > > dies,

> > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best

> > > hospitals

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

> astrologers

> > > take

> > > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

> > > acquired,

> > > > > > > earned

> > > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

> suffering

> > > or

> > > > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has

no

> role,

> > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in

such

> > > cases,

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction

> itself

> > > that

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished

by

> the

> > > > > native

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report

comes,

> it is

> > > the

> > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to

own

> > > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

> getting

> > > name

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED "

> or " I

> > > SAID

> > > > > SO " .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall

claims

> and

> > > stop

> > > > > > > taking

> > > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

> predictions

> > > fail

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his

own

> > > > > reputation

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

> true " YOUR

> > > > > FUTURE

> > > > > > > IS

> > > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > ,

> Panditji

> > > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

> > > happened and

> > > > > > > won't

> > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

> > > credibility.

> > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the

election

> is

> > > close

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

> reading.

> > > Most

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is

where

> in

> > > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional

> charts. The

> > > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well

known

> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

> > > election

> > > > > time.

> > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict

> change

> > > of

> > > > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US

elections.

> If

> > > bush

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now

> why do

> > > we

> > > > > need

> > > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ?

Can

> we not

> > > > > predict

> > > > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not,

there

> is a

> > > > > > > serious

> > > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the

principles

> are

> > > not

> > > > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont

deserve as

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh

ji is

> > > > > willing to

> > > > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt

> freely to

> > > all

> > > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

> sycophancy

> > > and

> > > > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > > visible. in

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to

views

> and

> > > open

> > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed

> which is

> > > very

> > > > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought

disrepute

> to

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan

> > > breathed

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for

> life at

> > > P D

> > > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union

minister

> not

> > > only

> > > > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

> Gopalakrishnan,

> > > had

> > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of

presidency or

> > > prime

> > > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> > > continue to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

> elected

> > > once

> > > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the

highest

> post

> > > in

> > > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is

unfolding

> > > from

> > > > > 2009,

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

> > > predicted

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in

2007

> > > despite

> > > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-

2006

> would

> > > be a

> > > > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under

> > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th

house

> and

> > > thus

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him

to

> > > occupy a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these

> years he

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu,

> Merc-Ven

> > > > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

> > > Vajpayee

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a

future

> > > leader

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically

> said

> > > that

> > > > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be

SHOT

> AT

> > > > > before he

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the

shooting

> > > took

> > > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or

not

> > > i.e. as

> > > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> > > astrologers

> > > > > > > jumped

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE

REAL

> > > CHART OF

> > > > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is

that

> when

> > > > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is

> showing a

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the

government.

> the

> > > > > drama

> > > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER

WHO

> READ

> > > > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > > astrologer's

> > > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the

place

> > > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are

lagnas.

> in

> > > > > future,

> > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

> discussion

> > > shall

> > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

> Asianet

> > > has

> > > > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial

announcement

> will

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is

the

> > > source

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related

prediction.As

> you

> > > have

> > > > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are

belittling

> > > > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts

regarding

> > > Prashna

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

May 19, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Arjuna and Sri Sreenadh

I fully confer with the views of Sri Arjuna. I have some suggestions for this group. One the them being, that all the messages of Sri Sreenadh including the topics of Aries as a lagna, etc. should be forwarded to this group. Secondly, text files be slowly made ready for a structured course in Astrology.

I'd really wish if we can start some classes in Delhi. Maybe for a small group and then, add members slowly. We need not have a formal setup. Space can be provided by my office.

My family owns a farm in Delhi which we have converted into an Ashram. It is a 13 acre farm. Many spiritual organizations including Chinmaya Mission, Vipassana, Sri Sri Ravi Shankarji, Ramakrishna Mission hold 2 to 10 day retreats over there. We charge nothing for providing this service. Perhaps we can have an Astrology retreat one day.

Just few of my thoughts.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 5/19/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote:

dear sreenadhjifirstly i regret for missing lot of action as my laptop and internet connection both were under repair for four days. also for the first time, it gave me immense satisfaction that here is a group where true astrology (no nonsense) is discussed supported by classics and this group is fast becoming a treasurehouse of astro knowledge as pressure is put on the head of each astrologer member (self claimed or declared) to show is knowledge and subject the same to improvement or correction. only matured astros would participate in such exercises and i wish this group all the success in spreading the light of jyotish as laid in our classics but presented in a languaged understandable to a modern man.

even while appreciating your principles of male planets in male signs and female planets in female signs from a birthchart for deciphering the gender, in my experience it is not foolproof even in correct birthcharts. here comes the role of prashna chart. though am not an expert in prashna chart, under the prashna principles, the result is amazingly precise in deciphering the native's gender.need few more days to read and respond to so many important threads going on simultaneously and learn as much as i can and also add as little value as i can.with best wishes for the group in general and you in particularpandit arjun

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:>> Dear Pandit ji,> In every chart both male and female nature (male and female > indications) are present. It is the majority points that determine > whether a chart is of a male or female as per astrology. I have > detailed it in the last portion of my first message on this issue. > Please read it again. For your conveniance I am pasting that here > again. > > +=============================================================+> |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|> +=============================================================+

> The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or> female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only rules> that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED in> this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets> I] Male.> --------> 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male planets> in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.> Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is the> logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as well.

> [4+4=8 points]> 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male planets> in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3 points]> II] Female.> --------

> 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female. Female> planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck> is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as> well. [4+4=8 points]> 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female. Female

> planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic behind.> [3 points]> > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is> determined whether it is of a male or female based on the majority

> points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign 2> points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,> Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).> So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> 13+2= 15 points> I hope the rules are clear. The rules I laid out are well supported > by the classics. Even though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it > indicates menses classics consider its placement to be indicative of > female birth as well, that is why Ma is left out in all these > considerations. Sa is said to indicate male impotent, and Me female > impotent. But it is said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-

3-> 5-7-9-11 indicates male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I > think it clarifies.> > Love,> Sreenadh> >

, Panditji > <navagraha@> wrote:> >> > Namaste,> > > > Thanks for the post. We still need to answer whether a chart is > male or

> > female ? Assuming that the TOB is correct how will you know whether > the> > chart in front of you is male or female ? Can Nav Navansha or > Kunda answer> > this question ? If it falls in male sign then male in female sign > female ?> > > > ...> > > > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Panditji,> > >> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, > right ?> > > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava navamsa> > > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are > also> > > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes. But > that> > > is not relevent here.> > >> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, > correct ?> > > Yes.> > > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for > birth> > > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa > (Kunda)> > > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.> > >> > > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?> > > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth, and the> > > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus or> > > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora, > Brihal> > > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra > hari> > > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we are> > > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the like, > when> > > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well supported> > > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the > only> > > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in birth> > > time, this method is not going to help.> > > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the files> > > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a look > at it> > > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known > as 'Varga> > > chtushtaya methods'.

> > > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora > because,> > > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R x9) > and> > > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa is> > > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a> > > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected, > Kunda> > > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation is> > > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method > followed> > > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is OK.> > > I hope it clarifies.

> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > >> > >

, Panditji> > >> > > <navagraha@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Namaste,> > > >> > > > Thanks for this info.

> > > >> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude, > right ?> > > >> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed, > correct ?> > > >> > > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly > defined.> > > >> > > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,. Not > sure> > > exactly> > > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known charts to> > > verify> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > >> > > > Thanks as always> > > >> > > > ...> > > >> > > >> > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >> > > > > Dear Panditji,> > > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha> > > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to > Lagna> > > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I will> > > prefer> > > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the > generalized

> > > form)> > > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.> > > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since, Ku=1 > and> > > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using letters

> > > instead> > > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava > Navamsa.> > > Nava> > > > > = 9.> > > > >> > > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of the > native> > > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be considered> > > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora > provides the

> > > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.> > > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in > which> > > star> > > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda > longitude> > > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that simple.> > > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By > error> > > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both, and> > > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda and > is> > > an> > > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

> expunging of> > > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he has> > > already> > > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda given > as per> > > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.> > > > > Love,> > > > > Sreenadh> > > > >> > > > > , Panditji> > > > >> > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,> > > > > >> > > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but do > not

> > > > > recall> > > > > > exactly how it was done.> > > > > >> > > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a big

> > > pandora> > > > > box of> > > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think we> > > should> > > > > ask> > > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques to > share> > > > > their> > > > > > findings.> > > > > >> > > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this message > from> > > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> > > know?' > > > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the> > > curiosity> > > > > for> > > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether the

> > > horoscope> > > > > is> > > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can > conduct> > > in a> > > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for presenting > the> > > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the > message> > > I> > > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and > Arjunji> > > in> > > > > the> > > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion presented > before> > > > > all.> > > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward are > not> > > > > proper> > > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and > try to> > > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this message, > and> > > we> > > > > will> > > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

, " Sreenadh " > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the> > > sincerity> > > > > > > > involved.> > > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > > ==>> > > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change> > > residence ?> > > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of > understanding of> > > > > basic> > > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or > both.> > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective > verification'> > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we > (here in> > > this> > > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a male > or> > > > > female?> > > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without revealing

> > > whether> > > > > it is> > > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify whether > it> > > is> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws given > here> > > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of the> > > predictive

> > > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those prime > laws> > > > > given> > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20 > horoscopes,> > > we> > > > > will> > > > > > > > compare it with the actual.> > > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED " or " I> > > SAID> > > > > SO " ,> > > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the > tool.> > > It we> > > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of the 'prime> > > rules> > > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later at > some> > > > > point> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct > similar> > > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female verification > from> > > > > > > horoscope)> > > > > > > > --------------------

---> ----> > > ----> > > > > ----> > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given> > > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws > provided> > > > > here'.> > > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> > > horoscope> > > > > is of> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide > horoscopes for> > > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be used > for> > > BT> > > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> > > corrected> > > > > only> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].> > > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > > summarized at> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the basic > rules> > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to > none> > > but> > > > > the> > > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification from> > > horoscope)> > > > > > > > --------------------

---> ----> > > ---> > > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope > should> > > > > inform> > > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (

i.e. whether it is of > a> > > male> > > > > or> > > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through his> > > private

> > > > > > > mail.> > > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one to> > > become the> > > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the fact > (i.e.> > > > > > > trustee)> > > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the > experiment, and> > > > > > > > should not make any comments about this experiment or> > > > > horoscopes]> > > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and time> > > provided> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the > horoscope> > > of> > > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.> > > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not mentioned.> > > > > (otherwise> > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a > male or> > > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is > given> > > > > would be> > > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the experiment)> > > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of Birth > and> > > its> > > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will summarize > the> > > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the> > > participants.

> > > > > I> > > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the > actual> > > > > data),> > > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > > experiment. > > > > > Now> > > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -> > > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.> > > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I > will> > > > > provide,> > > > > > > at> > > > > > > > the end of the this mail]> > > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the audience> > > provide,> > > > > > > once> > > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee > informs> > > in> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope, the> > > > > > > participants> > > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > > >> > > +=============================================================+> > > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> > > horoscope)|> > > > > > > >> > > +=============================================================+> > > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a> > > male or> > > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are> > > the 'only> > > > > > > rules> > > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE> > > > > CONSIDERED> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in> > > brackets> > > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > > --------> > > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male.> > > Male> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then > it is> > > > > male.

> > > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and> > > luck is> > > > > the> > > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to > Navamsa as> > > > > well.> > > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]> > > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male.

> > > Male> > > > > > > planets> > > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic > behind. [3> > > > > points]> > > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > > --------> > > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is> > > female.> > > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 > points]> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, > then

> > > it is> > > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, > soul> > > and> > > > > > > luck> > > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to> > > Navamsa> > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]> > > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a > female.> > > > > Female> > > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the > logic> > > > > behind.> > > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for > Female. It> > > is> > > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on > the> > > > > majority> > > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to> > > assign> > > > > 2> > > > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own> > > house,> > > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).> > > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:> > > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points> > > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your > opinion> > > > > about> > > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee (who > will> > > keep> > > > > the> > > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end), before> > > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the> > > classics.> > > > > Even> > > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it > indicates> > > menses> > > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of > female> > > > > birth as> > > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > > considerations.> > > > > Sa is> > > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female impotent. > But> > > it> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-9-> 11> > > > > indicates> > > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I > think it> > > > > > > clarifies.> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > dear panditji> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding> > > > > of " modern " > > > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and > dasas) or> > > > > > > > prediction> > > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes > drastrically> > > with> > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes > to a> > > > > > > hospital> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various> > > visible> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, > scan> > > and> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports, the > doctor> > > > > gives> > > > > > > an> > > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if > the> > > count> > > > > is> > > > > > > > above> > > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or > that.> > > > > even> > > > > > > > though> > > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more > than a

> > > > > million> > > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then> > > these> > > > > > > doctors> > > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning> > > crores,> > > > > > > > whenever> > > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to> > > sign a

> > > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the > patient> > > dies,> > > > > > > there> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best> > > hospitals> > > > > like> > > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern > astrologers> > > take> > > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like> > > acquired,> > > > > > > earned> > > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the > suffering> > > or> > > > > > > > happiness> > > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no > role,> > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such> > > cases,> > > > > an> > > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction > itself> > > that> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished by > the> > > > > native> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, > it is

> > > the> > > > > > > report> > > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own> > > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for > getting> > > name> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " > or " I> > > SAID> > > > > SO " .> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims > and> > > stop> > > > > > > taking> > > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their > predictions> > > fail

> > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own> > > > > reputation> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes > true " YOUR> > > > > FUTURE> > > > > > > IS> > > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > with best wishes> > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > >

, > Panditji> > > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Namaste,> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has> > > happened and> > > > > > > won't> > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low> > > credibility.> > > > > > > There> > > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election > is> > > close> > > > > > > they> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > read> > > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo > reading.> > > Most> > > > > of

> > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > is what> > > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where > in> > > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > > ofcourse> > > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional > charts. The> > > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known> > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > predicted> > > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to> > > election

> > > > > time.> > > > > > > If> > > > > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict > change> > > of> > > > > > > > residence> > > > > > > > > ? Thats> > > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. > If> > > bush> > > > > had> > > > > > > > lost the> > > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now > why do> > > we> > > > > need> > > > > > > > all the> > > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ?

Can > we not> > > > > predict> > > > > > > > > whether a> > > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there > is a> > > > > > > serious> > > > > > > > lack of> > > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the principles

> are> > > not> > > > > > > > > repeatable or> > > > > > > > > > both.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is> > > > > willing to

> > > > > > > > share> > > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt > freely to> > > all> > > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of > sycophancy> > > and> > > > > > > blind> > > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > > visible. in> > > > > > > this> > > > > > > > group> > > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views > and> > > open> > > > > > > > discussion> > > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed > which is

> > > very> > > > > > > > healthy> > > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute > to> > > > > > > astrology> > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered> > > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54> > > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54> > > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan> > > breathed> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > last on> > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for > life at> > > P D> > > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister > not> > > only> > > > > > > > created a> > > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K > Gopalakrishnan,> > > had> > > > > > > > predicted> > > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or> > > prime

> > > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> > > continue to> > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get > elected> > > once> > > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest > post> > > in> > > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding> > > from> > > > > 2009,> > > > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had> > > predicted> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Mahajan> > > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007> > > despite> > > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-

2006 > would> > > be a> > > > > > > > period of> > > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under> > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > Jupiter it> > > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house > and> > > thus> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > poised> > > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. " > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to> > > occupy a> > > > > good> > > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these > years he> > > > > would

> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, > Merc-Ven> > > > > (1/3), " > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari> > > Vajpayee> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > added> > > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future> > > leader> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > country.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically > said> > > that> > > > > > > > Mahajan and> > > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .> > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT > AT> > > > > before he

> > > > > > > > was> > > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting> > > took> > > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > > every> > > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not> > > i.e. as> > > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry> > > astrologers> > > > > > > jumped> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL> > > CHART OF> > > > > > > > PRAMOD " > > > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that > when> > > > > > > > parliament of> > > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is > showing a> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > date> > > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. > the> > > > > drama> > > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO > READ> > > > > > > PRAMOD'S> > > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > > astrologer's> > > > > > > > changing> > > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place> > > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. > in> > > > > future,> > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a > discussion> > > shall> > > > > > > take> > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > > arjun> > > > > > > > > > > --- In> > > > > > > >> > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today > Asianet> > > has> > > > > > > > reported,a> > > > > > > > > > > news> > > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement > will> > > > > only> > > > > > > > come on> > > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is

the> > > source> > > > > of> > > > > > > > birth> > > > > > > > > > > time> > > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As > you> > > have> > > > > > > > rightly> > > > > > > > > > > said> > > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling> > > > > > > themselves,by> > > > > > > > > > > giving> > > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding> > > Prashna> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji> > > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

May 19, 2006

Dear S-ji,

Am I to understand that I am making the most use of you. Look, sir,

you asked me over, here. Now you can't grumble. If I draw on you so

much with small hooks, you must be feeling relieved.

RK

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Vinita ji,

> You and RK ji always make me write long mails, by posting some

> simple, small but indepth queries always. My response to RK ji

is

> still pending and to this I respond now.

> You said:

> =>

> My question is how much time does it take to be born?

> Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is

> there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to unite?

> <=

> Birth does not take place in a moment – you and me know. I don't

> think any explanation is necessary on that. But the horoscope is

cast

> based on some exact moment (correct to seconds), that is supposed

to

> reflect the rhythm of destiny – I think some explanation is

necessary

> on that.

> Let us start from the first question

> Which is the correct Birth Time?

> -----------

> =>

> Is it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head

> first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time (cries?)???.

> Now i am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not

> minutes for such things to happen.

> <=

> Yes, you are right – and also right in judging what I can say –

> " What do the ancient texts say about this??? "

> Of course I should agree that even the Rishis have different

opinion

> on this – but luckily their basic opinion is not different.

> The Birth time is -

> 1) The time at which head, feet or hand comes out – supported

by

> Saravali, Garga Jataka

> 2) The time at which placenta breaks (Gerbhodaka sruti) –

> supported by Brihat Sounaka hora, Saravali

> 3) The time at which umbilical cord is cut – supported by none.

> 4) The time of first breath - supported by none.

> 5) The time of first cry – supported by none.

> 6) Time of union of sperm with ovum (Aadhana) – supported by

> Saravali, Leghu Jatakam

> 7) The time at which forehead is seen – Saravali

> 8) The time of first touching the earth – Saravali

> Note that Saravali itself supports 5 of this methods. There is a

> sloka in Saravali that explicitly states the same as well. Destiny

is

> also predicted based on – Time of marriage, Time of first menses

for

> girls etc. So what is the generalization? Let us give it as no.9

> 9) Based on any moment that very closely related to an

> individual, based on any moment that is very important in his

life,

> the pattern of destiny can be predicted.

> I think that last option clearly depicts the actual view of the

> Rishis. Now it is not possible to collect the exact moment of any

of

> the above - so even in that period they had no other option but

to

> resort to the mathematical methods for determining the exact

moment

> that depicts destiny, once the approximate BT is got. Therefore

the

> mathematical methods given below gets more importance than the

above

> points. All of them just gives the approximate birth time, since

> birth is a process that takes many minutes.

> Now the question to be answered is – does, Rishi horas support the

> use of such mathematical methods? Yes. Vasishta hora says –

> Sastrokta margena sulegnakalam samaneyam

> Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant)

should

> be corrected following the ancient advice.

> Kasyapa hora says –

> Sidhantoktena margena lagnakalam presadhayet

> Meaning, the birth time (and the longitude of the ascendant)

should

> be corrected following mathematical methods.

> There fore we need to search for the mathematical methods that

were

> in use to find the precious moment (exact to the seconds) that

> depicts the rhythm of destiny for that person. (Could it be there

> more than one such points for a single person? OK. I live it for

you

> to think) Such methods I got from ancient texts are –

> 1) Pancha Tatwa method – partially supported by Uttara

> kalamrita, Yajcha valkya smriti

> 2) Kunda method – supported by Sounaka hora, Brihal prajapatya,

> Varaha hora

> 3) Navams Dwadasamsa – Brihat Prajapatya

> 4) Varga chatushtaya method – Skanda hora, Brihat prajaptyam,

> Sounaka hora, Prasna ratna, Prasnamarga.

> 5) Birth time ghati-vighati - Uttara kalamrita.

> I thinks these are the most important methods that are available.

> * The first method has the advantage that it helps for BT

> rectification for even more than 10 min at times. But this method

is

> not well supported by classics.

> * The 2nd and 3rd are just part of the 4th method. So I reject

them.

> * The Varga chatushtaya method is well supported by Rishi horas

and

> seems to have been in use for long. This is the most authentic

> method.

> * The 5th method does not find any support in Rishi horas.

> So the conclusion is that,

> • We need to know the approximate birth time. (take any)

> • To correct it we can use the Varga chatushtaya method and

> Pancha tatwa method.

> This is the conclusion I got.

> Birth lagna verification – Use Gk – says Prasna Ratna, Prasna

> sangraha, Jataka parijata, prasna sara, phaladeepika unanimously.

> =>

> This made me wonder whether birth takes a

> while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a second.

> <=

> As per ancient definitions, birth takes a while, but the horoscope

is

> created based on a mathematically corrected moment within that

span,

> which is supposed to depict the destiny more accurately for that

> individual.

>

> P.S: Dear Vinita ji, now don't come up with asking – what is Varga

> chatushtaya method? Etc – first go and see that `Birth

rectification'

> file in the filese section. It is said that a ripple creates

> thousand ripples. Similar is a questions – the result is thousands

of

> questions. ) But yes, that is the right way of learning.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shreenadhji,

> >

> > What a wonderful post!

> >

> > U have written:

> > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

birth

> > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

(Kunda)

> > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> >

> > My question is how much time does it take to be born?

> > Is one born exact to the second, or a fraction of a second or is

> > there a wider window for the Lagna (body) and Mind (Moon) to

unite?

> >

> > They say that death is not instantaneous - but may take some

time

> > (for the body to be disengaged from the mind...or for the mind

to

> > dissolve?)....so I suppose birth should also take some time to

> > happen. So then how does one determine the birth time? Isn't

there

> a

> > range of time for birth too?

> >

> > And then how does one determine this range of time (if it is a

> range

> > of time and not a very precise second or a fraction of a second)?

Is

> > it when the umbilical chord is severed? Or when the baby's head

> > first emerges, or when it breathes for the first time

(cries?)???.

> > Now i am sure there would be difference of some seconds if not

> > minutes for such things to happen.

> >

> > What do the ancient texts say about this???

> >

> > The reason i am asking this is that with my very limited

> > understanding i tried the exercise on the kunda. Earlier i had

> > rectified my birth time by 2 minutes and 15 seconds because this

> > meant a change in the Navamsa lagna which matched the 7th house

of

> > my husband just like my 7th house matched with his (exact to the

> > rasi and planets in the rasi). With the kunda method the trine

of

> > the birth nakshatra matches with the kunda if i move the time

> > backward by 15 seconds. This made me wonder whether birth takes

a

> > while or if it is exact to the second or the fraction of a

second.

> >

> > BTW, many, many thanks for the Vyasa sign post. U have taken

great

> > pains typing such a detailed message......it definetely deserves

a

> > lot more time and attention on my part to understand what it

> means

> >

> > Love,

> >

> > Vinita

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> > right ?

> > > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava

> navamsa

> > > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes are

> > also

> > > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes.

But

> > that

> > > is not relevent here.

> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> > correct ?

> > > Yes.

> > > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must for

> > birth

> > > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

> > (Kunda)

> > > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> > > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth,

and

> > the

> > > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is plus

or

> > > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda Hora,

> > Brihal

> > > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga. Chandra

> > hari

> > > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we

are

> > > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the

like,

> > when

> > > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well

supported

> > > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is the

> > only

> > > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in

birth

> > > time, this method is not going to help.

> > > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the

files

> > > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a

look

> at

> > it

> > > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

> > as 'Varga

> > > chtushtaya methods'.

> > > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

> > because,

> > > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R

x9)

> > and

> > > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava navamsa

is

> > > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it a

> > > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is selected,

> > Kunda

> > > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a seperation

is

> > > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

> > followed

> > > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation is

OK.

> > > I hope it clarifies.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Panditji

> > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for this info.

> > > >

> > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna longitude,

> > right ?

> > > >

> > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> > correct ?

> > > >

> > > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly

> defined.

> > > >

> > > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,.

Not

> > sure

> > > exactly

> > > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known

charts

> to

> > > verify

> > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks as always

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer to

> > Lagna

> > > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I

will

> > > prefer

> > > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

> > generalized

> > > form)

> > > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since,

Ku=1

> and

> > > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using

letters

> > > instead

> > > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

> > Navamsa.

> > > Nava

> > > > > = 9.

> > > > >

> > > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of

the

> > native

> > > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be

considered

> > > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora

> provides

> > the

> > > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and in

> > which

> > > star

> > > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

> > longitude

> > > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that

simple.

> > > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same. By

> > error

> > > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the both,

and

> > > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from Kunda

and

> > is

> > > an

> > > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

> > expunging of

> > > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he

has

> > > already

> > > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda

given

> as

> > per

> > > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , Panditji

> > > > >

> > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago, but

do

> > not

> > > > > recall

> > > > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a

big

> > > pandora

> > > > > box of

> > > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I think

we

> > > should

> > > > > ask

> > > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these techniques

to

> > share

> > > > > their

> > > > > > findings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this

message

> > from

> > > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall I

> > > know?'

> > > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But the

> > > curiosity

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether

the

> > > horoscope

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

> > conduct

> > > in a

> > > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for

presenting

> the

> > > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in the

> > message

> > > I

> > > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

> > Arjunji

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion

presented

> > before

> > > > > all.

> > > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put forward

are

> > not

> > > > > proper

> > > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments, and

> try

> > to

> > > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this

message,

> > and

> > > we

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate the

> > > sincerity

> > > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> > > residence ?

> > > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

> > understanding of

> > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable or

> > both.

> > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

> > verification'

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we

> (here

> > in

> > > this

> > > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a

male

> > or

> > > > > female?

> > > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without

revealing

> > > whether

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify

whether

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws

given

> > here

> > > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of

the

> > > predictive

> > > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those

prime

> > laws

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

> > horoscopes,

> > > we

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED "

> or " I

> > > SAID

> > > > > SO " ,

> > > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate the

> > tool.

> > > It we

> > > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of

the 'prime

> > > rules

> > > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then later

at

> > some

> > > > > point

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and conduct

> > similar

> > > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female

verification

> > from

> > > > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > --------------------

---

> -

> > ---

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> > > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the laws

> > provided

> > > > > here'.

> > > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether the

> > > horoscope

> > > > > is of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide

> horoscopes

> > for

> > > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be

used

> > for

> > > BT

> > > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would be

> > > corrected

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > > summarized at

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the

basic

> > rules

> > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes to

> > none

> > > but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification

from

> > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > --------------------

---

> -

> > ---

> > > ---

> > > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the horoscope

> > should

> > > > > inform

> > > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it is

of

> > a

> > > male

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through

his

> > > private

> > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some one

to

> > > become the

> > > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the

fact

> > (i.e.

> > > > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the

> experiment,

> > and

> > > > > > > > should not make any comments about this

experiment or

> > > > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and

time

> > > provided

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

> > horoscope

> > > of

> > > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not

mentioned.

> > > > > (otherwise

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is of a

> > male or

> > > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native is

> > given

> > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the

experiment)

> > > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of

Birth

> > and

> > > its

> > > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will

summarize

> > the

> > > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> > > participants.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps the

> > actual

> > > > > data),

> > > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > > experiment.

> > > > > Now

> > > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification. [This I

> will

> > > > > provide,

> > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the

audience

> > > provide,

> > > > > > > once

> > > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the trustee

> > informs

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > group that he got the details of the horoscope,

the

> > > > > > > participants

> > > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > > >

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from

> > > horoscope)|

> > > > > > > >

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is

of a

> > > male or

> > > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They

are

> > > the 'only

> > > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD

BE

> > > > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given

in

> > > brackets

> > > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

> male.

> > > Male

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign,

then

> > it is

> > > > > male.

> > > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul

and

> > > luck is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> Navamsa

> > as

> > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a

> male.

> > > Male

> > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic

> behind.

> > [3

> > > > > points]

> > > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it

is

> > > female.

> > > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

> > points]

> > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign,

> > then

> > > it is

> > > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body,

mind,

> > soul

> > > and

> > > > > > > luck

> > > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied

to

> > > Navamsa

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a

> > female.

> > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is

the

> > logic

> > > > > behind.

> > > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for

> Female.

> > It

> > > is

> > > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based

on

> the

> > > > > majority

> > > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the

liberty

> to

> > > assign

> > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation,

Own

> > > house,

> > > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or

female).

> > > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can get

is:

> > > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about your

> > opinion

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee

(who

> > will

> > > keep

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end),

before

> > > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by the

> > > classics.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

> > indicates

> > > menses

> > > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative of

> > female

> > > > > birth as

> > > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > > considerations.

> > > > > Sa is

> > > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female

impotent.

> > But

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-5-7-

9-

> 11

> > > > > indicates

> > > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

> think

> > it

> > > > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my

understanding

> > > > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

> > dasas) or

> > > > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

> > drastrically

> > > with

> > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient

goes

> > to a

> > > > > > > hospital

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of

various

> > > visible

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine,

xray,

> > scan

> > > and

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports,

the

> > doctor

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that

if

> > the

> > > count

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > above

> > > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this

or

> > that.

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect more

> > than a

> > > > > million

> > > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and

> then

> > > these

> > > > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by

earning

> > > crores,

> > > > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient

to

> > > sign a

> > > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

> > patient

> > > dies,

> > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the

best

> > > hospitals

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

> > astrologers

> > > take

> > > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like

> > > acquired,

> > > > > > > earned

> > > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

> > suffering

> > > or

> > > > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has

no

> > role,

> > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in

such

> > > cases,

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction

> > itself

> > > that

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details furnished

by

> > the

> > > > > native

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report

comes,

> it

> > is

> > > the

> > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to

own

> > > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

> > getting

> > > name

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED "

> > or " I

> > > SAID

> > > > > SO " .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall

claims

> > and

> > > stop

> > > > > > > taking

> > > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

> > predictions

> > > fail

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his

own

> > > > > reputation

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

> > true " YOUR

> > > > > FUTURE

> > > > > > > IS

> > > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > ,

> > Panditji

> > > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has

> > > happened and

> > > > > > > won't

> > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low

> > > credibility.

> > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the

election

> > is

> > > close

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

> > reading.

> > > Most

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is

where

> > in

> > > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional

> charts.

> > The

> > > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well

known

> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close to

> > > election

> > > > > time.

> > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict

> > change

> > > of

> > > > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US

elections.

> > If

> > > bush

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now

> why

> > do

> > > we

> > > > > need

> > > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ?

Can

> we

> > not

> > > > > predict

> > > > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not,

there

> > is a

> > > > > > > serious

> > > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the

principles

> > are

> > > not

> > > > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont

deserve as

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh

ji is

> > > > > willing to

> > > > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt

> freely

> > to

> > > all

> > > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

> > sycophancy

> > > and

> > > > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > > visible. in

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to

views

> > and

> > > open

> > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed

> which

> > is

> > > very

> > > > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought

disrepute

> > to

> > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod

Mahajan

> > > breathed

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for

> life

> > at

> > > P D

> > > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union

minister

> > not

> > > only

> > > > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also caught

> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

> > Gopalakrishnan,

> > > had

> > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of

presidency

> or

> > > prime

> > > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will

> > > continue to

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

> > elected

> > > once

> > > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the

highest

> > post

> > > in

> > > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is

> unfolding

> > > from

> > > > > 2009,

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had

> > > predicted

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in

2007

> > > despite

> > > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-

2006

> > would

> > > be a

> > > > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and

under

> > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th

house

> > and

> > > thus

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him

to

> > > occupy a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these

> > years he

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu,

> Merc-

> > Ven

> > > > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari

> > > Vajpayee

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a

> future

> > > leader

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically

> > said

> > > that

> > > > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be

SHOT

> AT

> > > > > before he

> > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the

> shooting

> > > took

> > > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives or

> not

> > > i.e. as

> > > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> > > astrologers

> > > > > > > jumped

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE

REAL

> > > CHART OF

> > > > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is

that

> > when

> > > > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is

> showing

> > a

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the

government.

> > the

> > > > > drama

> > > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER

WHO

> > READ

> > > > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > > astrologer's

> > > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the

place

> > > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are

lagnas.

> in

> > > > > future,

> > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

> > discussion

> > > shall

> > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

> > Asianet

> > > has

> > > > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial

announcement

> > will

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is

the

> > > source

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related

prediction.As

> > you

> > > have

> > > > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are

belittling

> > > > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts

regarding

> > > Prashna

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

May 19, 2006

Dear Bharat ji,

Thank you very much for your true dedication and good will towards

spreading astrological knowledge and study.

Concerning the topics you mentioned -

1) Forwarding of messages to this group

---

Any member of this group can (and has full freedom to) forward

messages (especially of article type) if they finds that it would be

valuable in our studies. It is my messages or of anybody else is not

a thing of importance.

P.S. : My messages – I would be happy. Don't you know I am selfish?

They are my children. )

But the student in me says – aree yar, those are the things you

know. Try to learn from others. I think that sounds better.

2)Text files be slowly made ready for a structured course in Astrology

-

That is a big task! But I think collective effort can implement this.

3) Starting some classes in Delhi

------------------------------

Thank you very much for putting forward such a great offer of

providing free space, for a good cause before this community. I would

love to be part of such a group. But as far as I am concerned I am

currently in Rajas tan, and don't know by what time I would get

transferred to Delhi. May be, I hope, with in 3 months It could

happen. But before starting a class we should find the Teachers,

Students, and the Curriculum that would be discussed. And how many

of the members of this group are from/in Delhi? I am yet to know.

I think Arjun ji, Panditji, Srinivas ji, Bharat ji, RK ji etc are

now in Delhi. Am I right? I am not sure. Formal or informal a class

is always good - at least to shed the mystory that surrounds the

teachers.

It is said that stars and lamps are good to view from distance. If

we go near by we are sure to find smoke as well. May be even for the

stars it is true, and when faced with the smoke around, we may

outright reject them. They say it is good to see everything from a

distance. We should be ready to face and accept the smoke first,

if we intend to start such an attempt, and should accept and

appreciate people for their own merits. If not it is always easy for

great loves to get converted into great hatreds! I have seen it many

times around!! It is a task through - trouble. One should be ready to

face the difficulties.

Formal or informal a setup is always good. And I think that is

why we are in this group I think. All suggestions appreciated, and

approved as far as I am concerned. We would patiently wait to hear

what others say.

Love,

Sreenadh

Dear Arjun ji,

You wrote:

==>

>>also for the first

> > time, it gave me immense satisfaction that here is a group where

> > true astrology (no nonsense) is discussed supported by classics

and

> > this group is fast becoming a treasurehouse of astro knowledge....

<==

Thanks for the good words.

==>

>> as pressure is put on the head of each astrologer member (self

>> claimed or declared) to show is knowledge and subject the same to

> > improvement or correction. only matured astros would participate

>> in such exercises

<==

No pressure!! It is just a game - and we friends just play!

==>

>> and i wish this group all the success in spreading

> > the light of jyotish as laid in our classics but presented in a

> > languaged understandable to a modern man.

<==

Yes, let us all unanimously try to do the same.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " Bharat Hindu

Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Arjuna and Sri Sreenadh

>

> I fully confer with the views of Sri Arjuna. I have some

suggestions for

> this group. One the them being, that all the messages of Sri

Sreenadh

> including the topics of Aries as a lagna, etc. should be forwarded

to this

> group. Secondly, text files be slowly made ready for a structured

course in

> Astrology.

>

> I'd really wish if we can start some classes in Delhi. Maybe for a

small

> group and then, add members slowly. We need not have a formal

setup. Space

> can be provided by my office.

>

> My family owns a farm in Delhi which we have converted into an

Ashram. It is

> a 13 acre farm. Many spiritual organizations including Chinmaya

Mission,

> Vipassana, Sri Sri Ravi Shankarji, Ramakrishna Mission hold 2 to 10

day

> retreats over there. We charge nothing for providing this service.

Perhaps

> we can have an Astrology retreat one day.

>

> Just few of my thoughts.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 5/19/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote:

> >

> > dear sreenadhji

> >

> > firstly i regret for missing lot of action as my laptop and

internet

> > connection both were under repair for four days. also for the

first

> > time, it gave me immense satisfaction that here is a group where

> > true astrology (no nonsense) is discussed supported by classics

and

> > this group is fast becoming a treasurehouse of astro knowledge as

> > pressure is put on the head of each astrologer member (self

claimed

> > or declared) to show is knowledge and subject the same to

> > improvement or correction. only matured astros would participate

in

> > such exercises and i wish this group all the success in spreading

> > the light of jyotish as laid in our classics but presented in a

> > languaged understandable to a modern man.

> >

> > even while appreciating your principles of male planets in male

> > signs and female planets in female signs from a birthchart for

> > deciphering the gender, in my experience it is not foolproof even

in

> > correct birthcharts. here comes the role of prashna chart.

though

> > am not an expert in prashna chart, under the prashna principles,

the

> > result is amazingly precise in deciphering the native's gender.

> >

> > need few more days to read and respond to so many important

threads

> > going on simultaneously and learn as much as i can and also add as

> > little value as i can.

> >

> > with best wishes for the group in general and you in particular

> > pandit arjun

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> >

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pandit ji,

> > > In every chart both male and female nature (male and female

> > > indications) are present. It is the majority points that

determine

> > > whether a chart is of a male or female as per astrology. I have

> > > detailed it in the last portion of my first message on this

issue.

> > > Please read it again. For your conveniance I am pasting that

here

> > > again.

> > >

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification from horoscope)|

> > > +=============================================================+

> > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is of a male or

> > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They are the 'only

> > rules

> > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES SHOULD BE

CONSIDERED

> > in

> > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are given in brackets

> > > I] Male.

> > > --------

> > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is male. Male

> > planets

> > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

male.

> > > Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and luck is

> > the

> > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to Navamsa as

well.

> > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a male. Male

> > planets

> > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic behind. [3

> > points]

> > > II] Female.

> > > --------

> > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then it is female.

> > Female

> > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female) sign, then it is

> > > female. Placement of significators for body, mind, soul and

> > luck

> > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

Navamsa as

> > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is a female.

Female

> > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is the logic

> > behind.

> > > [3 points]

> > >

> > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for Female. It is

> > > determined whether it is of a male or female based on the

majority

> > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the liberty to assign

2

> > > points considering the placement power (Exaltation, Own house,

> > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or female).

> > > So the maximum point either male or female can get is:

> > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > I hope the rules are clear. The rules I laid out are well

> > supported

> > > by the classics. Even though Ma is said to be a male planet,

since

> > it

> > > indicates menses classics consider its placement to be

indicative

> > of

> > > female birth as well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > > considerations. Sa is said to indicate male impotent, and Me

> > female

> > > impotent. But it is said in classics that the placement of Sa

in 1-

> > 3-

> > > 5-7-9-11 indicates male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female

> > birth. I

> > > think it clarifies.

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , Panditji

> > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the post. We still need to answer whether a chart

is

> > > male or

> > > > female ? Assuming that the TOB is correct how will you know

> > whether

> > > the

> > > > chart in front of you is male or female ? Can Nav Navansha or

> > > Kunda answer

> > > > this question ? If it falls in male sign then male in female

> > sign

> > > female ?

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > >

> > > > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna

longitude,

> > > right ?

> > > > > As far as Kunda verification is concerned - Yes. But Nava

> > navamsa

> > > > > (Kunda) of other planetary longitudes, or other longitudes

are

> > > also

> > > > > mentioned/used in texts like prasnamarga for other purposes.

> > But

> > > that

> > > > > is not relevent here.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> > > correct ?

> > > > > Yes.

> > > > > The relation between Body (Lagna) and Mind (Mo) is a must

for

> > > birth

> > > > > to take place. That is why, it is said that the Nava navamsa

> > > (Kunda)

> > > > > should fall in the birth star or its trine stars.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Have you done this on known charts to verify

> > > > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > > > This is a method that gives the possible moments of birth,

and

> > the

> > > > > maximum correction that can be applied by this method is

plus

> > or

> > > > > minus 3 minutes only. It is a method supported by Skanda

Hora,

> > > Brihal

> > > > > prajatyam, Varaha hora, Prasna Ratna and Prasna marga.

Chandra

> > > hari

> > > > > is speaking about some rhythem of time based on this. How we

> > are

> > > > > going to be sure that, this is an unfailing method, or the

> > like,

> > > when

> > > > > the correction applied is just 3 min max? It is a well

> > supported

> > > > > method by authentic texts and is logically correct that is

the

> > > only

> > > > > thing I can say. If there is an error of more than 6 min in

> > birth

> > > > > time, this method is not going to help.

> > > > > There is a file with the name 'Birth Rectification' in the

> > files

> > > > > section of the group, inside the folder 'Sreenadh'. Have a

> > look

> > > at it

> > > > > to see how it is applied. It is one of the 4 methods known

> > > as 'Varga

> > > > > chtushtaya methods'.

> > > > > P.S. : PVR gives Kunda and Nava navamsa seperately in JHora

> > > because,

> > > > > JHora gives Navamsa of 2 types - Parasara (general system; R

> > x9)

> > > and

> > > > > Kalachakra navamsa (I don't knw what it is). The nava

navamsa

> > is

> > > > > calculated differently for both. And that is why he made it

a

> > > > > seperate option from Kunda. When Parasara navamsa is

selected,

> > > Kunda

> > > > > and Nava navamsa should be the same even if such a

seperation

> > is

> > > > > made. But due to erronious nava navamsa calculation method

> > > followed

> > > > > JHora is not giving this result. But its Kunda calculation

is

> > OK.

> > > > > I hope it clarifies.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , Panditji

> > > > >

> > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for this info.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When you say Rashi longitude, you mean the lagna

longitude,

> > > right ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Birth Star means the Nakshtra in which chandra is placed,

> > > correct ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just tyrying to make sure that all the lingo is properly

> > > defined.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There was a note from Chadra Hari regarding this method,.

> > Not

> > > sure

> > > > > exactly

> > > > > > what his conclusions were. Have you done this on known

> > charts to

> > > > > verify

> > > > > > whether the method works unfailingly ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks as always

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 5/17/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Panditji,

> > > > > > > Lagna Longitude X 81 = Nava Navamsha

> > > > > > > Nava Navamsha is also known as Kunda. I used to refer

to

> > > Lagna

> > > > > > > logitude or any rasi longitude using the letter R. So I

> > will

> > > > > prefer

> > > > > > > to write R. where R=Rasi longitude. (It is just the

> > > generalized

> > > > > form)

> > > > > > > i.e. Nava Navamsa = R x 81.

> > > > > > > It is also known as Kunda Multiplication method since,

> > Ku=1

> > > and

> > > > > > > nda=8 as per katayadi notation (the system of using

letters

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > of numbers). 81 = 9 x 9, and that is why the word Nava

> > > Navamsa.

> > > > > Nava

> > > > > > > = 9.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The concept is that R x 81 should fall in birth star of

> > the

> > > native

> > > > > > > or its trine stars. Then only the birth time can be

> > considered

> > > > > > > correct, they (ancient astrological texts) say. JHora

> > > provides the

> > > > > > > Kunda longitude which is accurate.

> > > > > > > In the basics tab just look at the Kunda longitude and

in

> > > which

> > > > > star

> > > > > > > it falls and correct the time slightly so that the Kunda

> > > longitude

> > > > > > > falls in the Birth star or its trine stars. It is that

> > simple.

> > > > > > > By the way, Kunda method and Nava navamsa are the same.

By

> > > error

> > > > > > > JHora follows different calculations methods for the

both,

> > and

> > > > > > > the 'Nava Navamsa' given in JHora is different from

Kunda

> > and

> > > is

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > erroneous value. PVR uses some the round about way of

> > > expunging of

> > > > > > > multiples of 360 or the like for Nava navamsa, which he

has

> > > > > already

> > > > > > > admitted that gives an erroneous value. But the Kunda

> > given

> > > as per

> > > > > > > JHora is ok. It is one and the same as Nava Navamsa.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ,

Panditji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadhji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I had heard of nav navansh technique long time ago,

but

> > do

> > > not

> > > > > > > recall

> > > > > > > > exactly how it was done.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is a great discussion and actually will open up a

> > big

> > > > > pandora

> > > > > > > box of

> > > > > > > > general techniques of birth time rectifications. I

think

> > we

> > > > > should

> > > > > > > ask

> > > > > > > > people who have a lot of experience in these

techniques

> > to

> > > share

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > findings.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What about Kunda method, Nav navansh, etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 5/16/06, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > I seems that everybody brilliantly ignored this

> > message

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > me! 'Why, shall i know?' or should I say 'Why shall

I

> > > > > know?'

> > > > > > > > > There was no mal-intentions, in this message. But

the

> > > > > curiosity

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > objective verification of rules. Determining wether

the

> > > > > horoscope

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > of a male or female is one of the basic tests we can

> > > conduct

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > systamatic way. That was the only reason for

> > presenting

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > suggestion for such an experiment. Even though in

the

> > > message

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > addressed the well learned members like Panditji and

> > > Arjunji

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > beginning of the message, it was a suggestion

> > presented

> > > before

> > > > > > > all.

> > > > > > > > > If anybody has the feeling that the rules put

forward

> > are

> > > not

> > > > > > > proper

> > > > > > > > > and good enough, together we will make amendments,

and

> > > try to

> > > > > > > > > implement such an exersise, even at a later date.

> > > > > > > > > But if nobody is interested, please ignore this

> > message,

> > > and

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > continue with our normal discussions.

> > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Panditji, Arjunji,

> > > > > > > > > > I really agree with your views - and appreciate

the

> > > > > sincerity

> > > > > > > > > > involved.

> > > > > > > > > > Panditji said:

> > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > Can we not predict whether a person will change

> > > > > residence ?

> > > > > > > > > > > If we can not, there is a serious lack of

> > > understanding of

> > > > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > > > principles or the principles are not repeatable

or

> > > both.

> > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > I think he is hinting at need of 'objective

> > > verification'

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > basic methods. I have a suggestion - Why can we

> > > (here in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > group) try to evaluate whether a horoscope is of a

> > male

> > > or

> > > > > > > female?

> > > > > > > > > > Let anybody provide the horoscope, without

revealing

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > of a male or female, and shall we try to verify

> > whether

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > male or female, yes 'only based on the prime laws

> > given

> > > here

> > > > > > > > > > itself'. :)Because we will make it 'NOT a test of

the

> > > > > predictive

> > > > > > > > > > power of the participants', but 'a test of those

> > prime

> > > laws

> > > > > > > given

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > verification'. After verifying around 10 or 20

> > > horoscopes,

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > compare it with the actual.

> > > > > > > > > > As Arjun ji said: please don't say, " I PREDICTED "

> > or " I

> > > > > SAID

> > > > > > > SO " ,

> > > > > > > > > > but let us stop making tall claims and validate

the

> > > tool.

> > > > > It we

> > > > > > > > > fail,

> > > > > > > > > > we will understand that it is the failure of

> > the 'prime

> > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > > > selected for validation' and 'not ours'. Then

later

> > at

> > > some

> > > > > > > point

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > time we will select another set of rules and

conduct

> > > similar

> > > > > > > > > > experiments.

> > > > > > > > > > Rules for participants: (for Male/Female

> > verification

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > > > -----------------

---

> > ---

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > * All participants should validate all the given

> > > > > horoscopes.

> > > > > > > > > > * The validation should be only based on 'the

laws

> > > provided

> > > > > > > here'.

> > > > > > > > > > * The participants (those who validate whether

the

> > > > > horoscope

> > > > > > > is of

> > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > male or female) are not allowed to provide

> > > horoscopes for

> > > > > > > > > > validation.

> > > > > > > > > > * Except Kunda method, no other method should be

> > used

> > > for

> > > > > BT

> > > > > > > > > > rectification. [That means the given BT would

be

> > > > > corrected

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > a maximum of plus or minus 3 min].

> > > > > > > > > > * The validation done by all participant would be

> > > > > summarized at

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > end, and from this the trustworthiness of the

> > basic

> > > rules

> > > > > > > > > provided

> > > > > > > > > > would be observed. [The credit or failure goes

to

> > > none

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > rules selected]

> > > > > > > > > > Rules for Audience (for Male/Female verification

from

> > > > > horoscope)

> > > > > > > > > > -----------------

---

> > ---

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > * Any one (the audience) who provides the

horoscope

> > > should

> > > > > > > inform

> > > > > > > > > > the truth about the horoscope (i.e. whether it

is

> > of

> > > a

> > > > > male

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > female) to a selected person (trustee), through

> > his

> > > > > private

> > > > > > > > > mail.

> > > > > > > > > > [before the experiment starts, suggest some

one to

> > > > > become the

> > > > > > > > > > trustee. By the way, that person who knows the

> > fact

> > > (i.e.

> > > > > > > > > trustee)

> > > > > > > > > > will not be allowed to participate in the

> > > experiment, and

> > > > > > > > > > should not make any comments about this

> > experiment or

> > > > > > > horoscopes]

> > > > > > > > > > * Try to ensure the authenticity of the date and

> > time

> > > > > provided

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > far as possible. As far as possible, give the

> > > horoscope

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > youngsters whose BT you know exactly.

> > > > > > > > > > * Ensure that the name of the native is not

> > mentioned.

> > > > > > > (otherwise

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > is easy to judge from the name whether it is

of a

> > > male or

> > > > > > > > > female.

> > > > > > > > > > Any horoscope for which the name of the native

is

> > > given

> > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > ignored, and won't be considered for the

> > experiment)

> > > > > > > > > > * Provide exact Birth date, Birth Time, Place of

> > Birth

> > > and

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > Latitude and Longitude.

> > > > > > > > > > I will play the role, of the person who will

> > summarize

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > predictions, and also would like to be one of the

> > > > > participants.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > won't like to be the trustee (the one who keeps

the

> > > actual

> > > > > > > data),

> > > > > > > > > > since then I won't be able to participate in the

> > > > > experiment.

> > > > > > > Now

> > > > > > > > > > the pre-requisites are -

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Selection of the trustee.

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Selection of the rules for verification.

[This I

> > > will

> > > > > > > provide,

> > > > > > > > > at

> > > > > > > > > > the end of the this mail]

> > > > > > > > > > 3) Horoscopes for verification [This let the

> > audience

> > > > > provide,

> > > > > > > > > once

> > > > > > > > > > the trustee is selected. Only after the

trustee

> > > informs

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > group that he got the details of the

horoscope,

> > the

> > > > > > > > > participants

> > > > > > > > > > should start to validate it]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

+=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > > > |Astrology rules (for Male/Female verification

from

> > > > > horoscope)|

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

+=============================================================+

> > > > > > > > > > The horoscope verified to determine whether it is

> > of a

> > > > > male or

> > > > > > > > > > female against the following 7 Basic rules. [They

are

> > > > > the 'only

> > > > > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > > > that would be considered' and NO OTHER RULES

SHOULD

> > BE

> > > > > > > CONSIDERED

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > this exercise] The MAXIMUM points (marks) are

given

> > in

> > > > > brackets

> > > > > > > > > > I] Male.

> > > > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > > > 1) If Su and Ju are in Oja(Male) sign, then it is

> > male.

> > > > > Male

> > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > in male sign is the logic behind. [2 points]

> > > > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Oja(Male) sign,

> > then

> > > it is

> > > > > > > male.

> > > > > > > > > > Placement of significators for body, mind,

soul

> > and

> > > > > luck is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > logic behind. Same rule should be applied to

> > > Navamsa as

> > > > > > > well.

> > > > > > > > > > [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If Su, Ju, Sa are in 1-3-5-7-9-11 then it is a

> > male.

> > > > > Male

> > > > > > > > > planets

> > > > > > > > > > in Oja (male) houses from Lagna is the logic

> > > behind. [3

> > > > > > > points]

> > > > > > > > > > II] Female.

> > > > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > > > 1) If Ve and Mo are in Ugma (Female) sign, then

it

> > is

> > > > > female.

> > > > > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > > > planets in female sign is the logic behind. [2

> > > points]

> > > > > > > > > > 2) If Lagna, Moon, Su, Ju are in Ugma(Female)

sign,

> > > then

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > female. Placement of significators for body,

> > mind,

> > > soul

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > luck

> > > > > > > > > > is the logic behind. Same rule should be

applied

> > to

> > > > > Navamsa

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > well. [4+4=8 points]

> > > > > > > > > > 3) If Ve, Mo, Me are in 2-4-6-8-10-12 then it is

a

> > > female.

> > > > > > > Female

> > > > > > > > > > planets in Ugma (Female) houses from Lagna is

> > the

> > > logic

> > > > > > > behind.

> > > > > > > > > > [3 points]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Total 13 points are considered for Male and for

> > > Female. It

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > determined whether it is of a male or female based

> > on

> > > the

> > > > > > > majority

> > > > > > > > > > points. The astrologer (participant), has the

> > liberty to

> > > > > assign

> > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > points considering the placement power

(Exaltation,

> > Own

> > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > > Vargottama etc of planets in favor or male or

> > female).

> > > > > > > > > > So the maximum point either male or female can

get

> > is:

> > > > > > > > > > 13+2= 15 points

> > > > > > > > > > I hope the rules are clear. Let me know, about

your

> > > opinion

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > such an experiment. Also let us select a trustee

> > (who

> > > will

> > > > > keep

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > actual data supplied, and reveal it at the end),

> > before

> > > > > > > > > proceeding.

> > > > > > > > > > P.s: The rules I laid out are well supported by

the

> > > > > classics.

> > > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > > > though Ma is said to be a male planet, since it

> > > indicates

> > > > > menses

> > > > > > > > > > classics consider its placement to be indicative

of

> > > female

> > > > > > > birth as

> > > > > > > > > > well, that is why Ma is left out in all these

> > > > > considerations.

> > > > > > > Sa is

> > > > > > > > > > said to indicate male impotent, and Me female

> > impotent.

> > > But

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > said in classics that the placement of Sa in 1-3-

5-7-

> > 9-

> > > 11

> > > > > > > indicates

> > > > > > > > > > male birth and Me in 2-4-6-8-10-12 female birth. I

> > > think it

> > > > > > > > > clarifies.

> > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > >

, " panditarjun2004 "

> > > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dear panditji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my

> > understanding

> > > > > > > of " modern "

> > > > > > > > > > > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and

> > > dasas) or

> > > > > > > > > > prediction

> > > > > > > > > > > purely based on a horoscope (which changes

> > > drastrically

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient

> > goes

> > > to a

> > > > > > > > > hospital

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of

> > various

> > > > > visible

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > invisible parameters and several blood, urine,

> > xray,

> > > scan

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > reports are generated. based on these reports,

> > the

> > > doctor

> > > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > indication that too based on a fixed theory that

> > if

> > > the

> > > > > count

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > above

> > > > > > > > > > > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this

> > or

> > > that.

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > thousands of private medical colleges collect

more

> > > than a

> > > > > > > million

> > > > > > > > > > > rupees as donation just for studying medicine

and

> > then

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > > > doctors

> > > > > > > > > > > are on the prowl to recover their million by

> > earning

> > > > > crores,

> > > > > > > > > > whenever

> > > > > > > > > > > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the

patient

> > to

> > > > > sign a

> > > > > > > > > > > declaration that if the operation fails and the

> > > patient

> > > > > dies,

> > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the

best

> > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > apollo, several people keep dying.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern

> > > astrologers

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > refuge

> > > > > > > > > > > in karmic theory that too of different karmas

like

> > > > > acquired,

> > > > > > > > > earned

> > > > > > > > > > > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the

> > > suffering

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > happiness

> > > > > > > > > > > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology

has

> > no

> > > role,

> > > > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > > > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in

> > such

> > > > > cases,

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > astrologer shall admit while making the

prediction

> > > itself

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > what the chart says based on the details

furnished

> > by

> > > the

> > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report

> > comes,

> > > it is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > which says and not the pathologist. by trying

to

> > own

> > > > > > > > > > responsibility,

> > > > > > > > > > > answerability, accountability and tall claim for

> > > getting

> > > > > name

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I

PREDICTED "

> > > or " I

> > > > > SAID

> > > > > > > SO " .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall

> > claims

> > > and

> > > > > stop

> > > > > > > > > taking

> > > > > > > > > > > credit for their predictions so that if their

> > > predictions

> > > > > fail

> > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils

his

> > own

> > > > > > > reputation

> > > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes

> > > true " YOUR

> > > > > > > FUTURE

> > > > > > > > > IS

> > > > > > > > > > IN

> > > > > > > > > > > YOUR OWN HANDS " .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > > ,

> > > Panditji

> > > > > > > > > > > <navagraha@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing

has

> > > > > happened and

> > > > > > > > > won't

> > > > > > > > > > > be the

> > > > > > > > > > > > last. This is the reason astrology has very

low

> > > > > credibility.

> > > > > > > > > There

> > > > > > > > > > > are very

> > > > > > > > > > > > few who actually do predictions. Once the

> > election

> > > is

> > > > > close

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > read

> > > > > > > > > > > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo

> > > reading.

> > > > > Most

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > is what

> > > > > > > > > > > > dasha is the native running or what planet is

> > where

> > > in

> > > > > > > rashi and

> > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > > > > > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional

> > > charts. The

> > > > > > > > > > conclusion is

> > > > > > > > > > > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well

> > known

> > > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > victory for the current president, very close

to

> > > > > election

> > > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > > > If

> > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > is such a wonderful science, can we not

predict

> > > change

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > residence

> > > > > > > > > > > ? Thats

> > > > > > > > > > > > was the point I was harping on in the US

> > elections.

> > > If

> > > > > bush

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > lost the

> > > > > > > > > > > > election, he would have moved back to Texas.

Now

> > > why do

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > need

> > > > > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > > > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ?

> > Can

> > > we not

> > > > > > > predict

> > > > > > > > > > > whether a

> > > > > > > > > > > > person will change residence ? If we can not,

> > there

> > > is a

> > > > > > > > > serious

> > > > > > > > > > lack of

> > > > > > > > > > > > understanding of basic principles or the

> > principles

> > > are

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > repeatable or

> > > > > > > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ...

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont

> > deserve as

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh

> > ji is

> > > > > > > willing to

> > > > > > > > > > share

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt

> > > freely to

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > willing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > seekers. in other groups, some element of

> > > sycophancy

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > blind

> > > > > > > > > > > > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is

> > > > > visible. in

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > > > > constructive criticism and disagreement to

> > views

> > > and

> > > > > open

> > > > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a free but respectable manner is observed

> > > which is

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > healthy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for the progress of this group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought

> > disrepute

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > much so that CNN-IBN said this:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ANI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Email Email Print Print

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod

Mahajan

> > > > > breathed

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > last on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle

for

> > > life at

> > > > > P D

> > > > > > > > > > Hinduja

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hospital in Mumbai.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union

> > minister

> > > not

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > created a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shock wave in political circles but also

caught

> > > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong foot.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K

> > > Gopalakrishnan,

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of

> > presidency or

> > > > > prime

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ministership after the year 2009.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan

will

> > > > > continue to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > successful in Indian politics, and will get

> > > elected

> > > > > once

> > > > > > > > > again. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the

> > highest

> > > post

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > > > > polity - like Prime Minister or the

President. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is

> > unfolding

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > 2009,

> > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will give him a great lift in BJP. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma,

had

> > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > Mahajan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in

> > 2007

> > > > > despite

> > > > > > > > > > fluctuating

> > > > > > > > > > > > > fortunes till December 2006.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-

> > 2006

> > > would

> > > > > be a

> > > > > > > > > > period of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and

under

> > > > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > Jupiter it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th

> > house

> > > and

> > > > > thus

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > poised

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for as good result as in 11th house. "

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for

him

> > to

> > > > > occupy a

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during

these

> > > years he

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-

Ketu,

> > > Merc-Ven

> > > > > > > (1/3), "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharma had said.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal

Behari

> > > > > Vajpayee

> > > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > added

> > > > > > > > > > > > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a

> > future

> > > > > leader

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > country.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had

enigmatically

> > > said

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > Mahajan and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be

> > SHOT

> > > AT

> > > > > > > before he

> > > > > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the

> > shooting

> > > > > took

> > > > > > > > > place,

> > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > one was betting only on whether he survives

or

> > not

> > > > > i.e. as

> > > > > > > > > > simple as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry

> > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > > jumped

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE

> > REAL

> > > > > CHART OF

> > > > > > > > > > PRAMOD "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is

> > that

> > > when

> > > > > > > > > > parliament of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > india and PTI which is the highest body is

> > > showing a

> > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > date

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth, how can they disbelive the

> > government.

> > > the

> > > > > > > drama

> > > > > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > > > > turned comic when someone said 'AN

ASTROLOGER

> > WHO

> > > READ

> > > > > > > > > PRAMOD'S

> > > > > > > > > > > > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each

> > > > > astrologer's

> > > > > > > > > > changing

> > > > > > > > > > > > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the

> > place

> > > > > > > (hyderabad

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are

> > lagnas.

> > > in

> > > > > > > future,

> > > > > > > > > > before

> > > > > > > > > > > > > such pubic predictions are made, first a

> > > discussion

> > > > > shall

> > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > place

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to find out the authentic birth details.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today

> > > Asianet

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > reported,a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > news

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > confirming this,though the offcial

> > announcement

> > > will

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > come on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monday,after the State committee

meeting.Is

> > the

> > > > > source

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > authentic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related

> > prediction.As

> > > you

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > rightly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are

> > belittling

> > > > > > > > > themselves,by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > giving

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > predictions after exit polls .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts

> > regarding

> > > > > Prashna

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Madhu ji.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

May 19, 2006

Namaste,

What are these unfailing principles, could you elaborate with an example.

Sreenadhji,

In your earlier mail you referred to 1-3-5-7-9-11 for Shani and 2-4-6-8-10-12 for Budh.

These are houses not signs I presume. It still a very braod definition. So if Shani is in karka now , so for kanya lagna right now shani will be 11 the house thats two hours aprrox every day. Need some finer measures to have it a unfailing technique