astrological reading

[Guest guest]

Dear Rama ji,

You asked:

> When any native consults an astrologer, how sure can the

> astrologer / native be of the outcome that astrologer predicts?

No surety!! It is a risk the native is taking! ) For the

astrologer as well, (except his belief in the words of the Rishis and

the belief in the methods he follow), the uncertanity remains, till

the event reveals itself!! He would be happy, if the prediction turns

true, and would be sad and try to rectify his methods if the

prediction fails.

> So it is as good as waiting for the

> event itself to unfold the result.

That is your personal opinion.

You said:

> If 80% success in prediction cannot spell which 80%, is n't

> that 100% failure?

Do you know one cute thing - percentage maths is almost always used

now a days while talking with things we are not at all sure off!!!

Just watch some conversations and you will see the truth of this

statement. So for the wise, except in maths and statistics it is

better to avoid the 100% maths. But people use it universally even

while talking about things they don't know a bit - because then it

would sound authentic!!!

For a prediction how you are going to calculate the percentage?!! I

don't know how to do it! Of course we can mark some predictions as

success and some as failures, and going by the statistical methods we

can say classify that -

1) x % of predictions where success.

2) y % of predictions failed

3) z % of predictions undeterminable (i.e whether success or failure)

But how to determine the percentage of a single prediction?!! It

sounds absurd - and used by persons who just wants to sound

authentic, and does not know where to use the percentage maths! (Let

it be astrologers or anybody else)

Are they providing this percentage maths after doing some

statistical analysis - No, not at all. Look at the politicians, the

business man, or even the common man, they are all now talking about

percentage!!

You asked:

> Where does astrology stand w.r.t karma?

It is pretty difficult question to answer, due to several reasons.

First I should ask you to clarify by the word Karma you mean Karma

(Actions of an individual) or Karma theory (that binds everything

with karma and speaks about past birth, future birth etc and also

about Prarabtha Karma etc). If if is assured that you are speaking

about Karma theory and its relation to astrology, then also this

question is difficult to answer for me, due to the following reasons:

1) I am no man to authentically speak about karma theory as i know

nothing about my or anybody else past birth and future birth.

2) I can speak something only on the basis of the books I read, but

that cannot be assured truth coming to the concept of Karma and its

results.

3) Ancient astrological classics speaks nothing about the

association of Karma theory with astrology.

4) But in the texts probably after the period of Mihira (6th century)

speak about Karma and Karma theory as if it is part of astrology.

5) As far as I am concerned I am doubtful about the importance of

Karma theory in astrology and yet to reach any conclusion. Belief in

Karma theory demands the belief in Past and Previous births, which I

find difficult to accept completely. (It is a personal opinion and I

don't want to argue anything about it to anyone) But yes, this

previous birth concept finds strong grounds in ancient Indian

literature, though we can be doubtful about its existence in Veda,

Upanishads, and ancient astrological texts.

6) Karma theory finds strong support by a very large number of

astrologers now a days though and that kind of determinism is against

optimism, free will, and positive thinking. I will get less support

or may be no support if I say anything against Karma theory. Also, I

have no authority neither to accept nor to deny it.

Due to all these I find that I am an improper person to talk about

Karma. It is better to be satisfied with and talk about the little

astrology we know - that is my personal view. Or in other words, it

is not good to talk or preach about the things we don't know - that

is not sincerity - so I don't want to do that. There would be others

who would like to discuss such things.

Belief/Non-belief in Karma (or should I say any belief?), Following

of Upasana methods, Meditation etc are personal things I feel - which

should not be discussed in public. It will be something like a

journalistic report of Meditation - which does not convey much about

the reality. Beliefs and practices that direct subjective experience

is one thing, and discussion of the theoretical aspect of the belief

systems and descriptions of the practices that would give direct

subjective experience is another thing. Yes, " discussion of the

theoretical aspect of the belief systems and descriptions of the

practices that would give direct subjective experience " can be done

in any public forum - but not the questioning of it (that makes it

journalistic, as told earlier. i.e. Journalistic validation of a

purely subjective and personal thing - and that would surely miss the

essence of that practice and the personal experience it gives to its

follower).

In essence if the Karma discussion follows, and if it turns in the

first direction, then I will keep away from it, and if it is in the

second direction I may put forward some inputs as well.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " RAma Vootla "

<vsra_prasad wrote:

>

> When any native consults an astrologer, how sure can the

astrologer /

> native be of the outcome that astrologer predicts?

>

> I ask this Q as anyone who sees an astrologer is not sure of the

> outcome until the event happens. So it is as good as waiting for

the

> event itself to unfold the result.

>

> Ex: Can I start preparing to go abroad the day astrologer tells me

> that I would go abroad in a few months?

>

> One of a known native was told by an reputed astrologer that he

would

> get back to his good financial status that he enjoyed before. That

> made him quite happy and he waited for the time to see that nothing

> happened. If 80% success in prediction cannot spell which 80%, is

n't

> that 100% failure?

> Where does astrology stand w.r.t karma?

> Again to take an example, in west (general cases) if someone is

> divorced they might not attach much of value and might get into

> another relation. Whereas for someone who believes in astrology

he/she

> would have to go thru the pain of finding out why it happened and

any

> realisation that a weak planet in their 7/8 house can always make

> him /her more insecure.

>

> -rAm

>

[Guest guest]

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Rama ji,

> You asked:

> > When any native consults an astrologer, how sure can the

> > astrologer / native be of the outcome that astrologer predicts?

> No surety!! It is a risk the native is taking! ) For the

> astrologer as well, (except his belief in the words of the Rishis

and

> the belief in the methods he follow), the uncertanity remains,

till

> the event reveals itself!! He would be happy, if the prediction

turns

> true, and would be sad and try to rectify his methods if the

> prediction fails.

<SNIP>

 

That gets me to a basic Q. What is the purpose of astrology?

 

> 3) Ancient astrological classics speaks nothing about the

> association of Karma theory with astrology.

> 4) But in the texts probably after the period of Mihira (6th

century)

> speak about Karma and Karma theory as if it is part of astrology.

<SNIP>

 

Oh, is that true? Could you let me know which is the first known

book on astrology? Is it not BPHS?

 

Do we have any mentions of astrology / astrologers in ramayan /

mahabharat?

 

When did people start taking astrology seriously, as divine subject?

and as mundane subject? (for predictions, etc....)

 

Thanks for your patient reply.

-rAm

P.S.: I see that you have authored books on astrology, could I know

how many years have you been learning / interested in this subject?

[Guest guest]

Dear Rama ji,

You asked:

> That gets me to a basic Q. What is the purpose of astrology?

As far as I know:

1) It is to help the weak minds, by the ones who have a strong will

using all the tools they can collect and being sincere to the extreme

possible extend to themselves.

2) It is (a tool) to the search of the unknown (here future and

destiny)- directed by quest for knowledge.

3) It is (a tool) to guide the society, when they find it difficult

to pull along.

4) Its main purpose is to know the trend of future and modify and

improve our will and efforts in such a way to reap the maximum reward

from the evolving situations created by destiny, will and environment.

5)..... (Yes, you can extend this list)

 

<SNIP>

> Could you let me know which is the first known

> book on astrology? Is it not BPHS?

</SNIP>

[Tagging seems like HTML or XML but it is a good idea. Thank you.]

 

No. It is not.

It is -

As per Arsha school - Skanda Hora [it was also known as Jyotishmati

upanishad]

As per Jyne school - Garga Hora (Garga leaned this knowledge from

Brahma it is said. Is there a text by Brahma for this school of

thought, before Garga? I don't know)

As per Yavana school of thought - May be Yawaneswara Hora (I don't

know)

It is only that the oldest text (I won't say the oldest reference)

available in North India is BPHS. So BPHS is NOT the oldest book on

astrology.

 

<SNIP>

> Do we have any mentions of astrology / astrologers in ramayan /

> mahabharat?

</SNIP>

Yes, we have, and in plenty. But no where in Ramayan and

Mhabharat the Signs are mentioned. It seems that only Stellar

astrology (Nakshatra chakra) was prevalent on those days. But can't

be sure. It needs more research to reach a conclusion.

But you forgot one thing. The Vedas and possibly the Agamas (Tantric

texts, or should I say the Tantric tradition) are older than the

Epics. In Vedas we could find the clear Sayana (Tropical Zodiac) and

Nirayana (Sidereal Zodiac) classification. But it seems that the

Vedas gave more importance to Sayana system - but here also, more

research is necessary. The Tantric tradition seems to gave more

importance to Nirayana system, and associate and correlate astrology

with Yoga system. [More research necessary]

<SNIP>

> When did people start taking astrology seriously, as divine

subject?

> and as mundane subject? (for predictions, etc....)

</SNIP>

From the Vedic period itself for sure. Or may be far before that

from the Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period itself - Many argue

that it followed Tantric Tradition. [More research necessary]

 

<SNIP>

> P.S.: I see that you have authored books on astrology, could I know

> how many years have you been learning / interested in this subject?

<SNIP>

Now I am 35, I started around the age of 18, but still

nowhere. )

There are far better astrologers that Chandrahari, Madhu or Me in

Kerala, as far as astrological predictive ability, or 'predictive

astrological knowledge base' is concerned in astrology. We are just

children before them. We used to enjoy it, and learn from them.

But yes, we are specialized in several fields - like :

1) Chandrahari in - Astronomy, Tantric and Yogic foundations of

astrology, Ayanamsa, Mathametical foundations and History of

Astrological calculations, Ephemeris etc [The list is vast]

2) Me in - Astrology depicted as per ancient astrological classics,

Astrology as part of the Holistic system, Logical foundations etc

[Nothing much]

3) Madhu in - Transit forecast, Mundane astrology, Celebrity

horoscopes, Application and experimentation with new concepts etc

[The list is vast]

Yes, we enjoy our special fields. And as you know it is not

possible for one to learn everything. And we run for cover or become

too humble when we face the 'predictive power houses' the well

learned (most of them elder than us) of Kerala astrology, who can

quote the whole of Varasha Hora, Prasnamraga, Dasadhyayi, Krishneeyam

and many more texts just from memory!! )

Love,

Sreeanadh

 

, " RAma Vootla "

<vsra_prasad wrote:

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rama ji,

> > You asked:

> > > When any native consults an astrologer, how sure can the

> > > astrologer / native be of the outcome that astrologer predicts?

> > No surety!! It is a risk the native is taking! ) For the

> > astrologer as well, (except his belief in the words of the Rishis

> and

> > the belief in the methods he follow), the uncertanity remains,

> till

> > the event reveals itself!! He would be happy, if the prediction

> turns

> > true, and would be sad and try to rectify his methods if the

> > prediction fails.

> <SNIP>

>

> That gets me to a basic Q. What is the purpose of astrology?

>

> > 3) Ancient astrological classics speaks nothing about the

> > association of Karma theory with astrology.

> > 4) But in the texts probably after the period of Mihira (6th

> century)

> > speak about Karma and Karma theory as if it is part of astrology.

> <SNIP>

>

> Oh, is that true? Could you let me know which is the first known

> book on astrology? Is it not BPHS?

>

> Do we have any mentions of astrology / astrologers in ramayan /

> mahabharat?

>

> When did people start taking astrology seriously, as divine

subject?

> and as mundane subject? (for predictions, etc....)

>

> Thanks for your patient reply.

> -rAm

> P.S.: I see that you have authored books on astrology, could I know

> how many years have you been learning / interested in this subject?

>

[Guest guest]

, " Sreenadh "

<SNIP>

> 1) It is to help the weak minds, by the ones who have a strong will

> using all the tools they can collect and being sincere to the extreme

> possible extend to themselves.

</SNIP>

 

Weak minds?? That makes us all inferior

 

<SNIP>

> As per Arsha school - Skanda Hora [it was also known as Jyotishmati

> upanishad]

> As per Jyne school - Garga Hora (Garga leaned this knowledge from

> Brahma it is said. Is there a text by Brahma for this school of

> thought, before Garga? I don't know)

> As per Yavana school of thought - May be Yawaneswara Hora (I don't

> know)

> It is only that the oldest text (I won't say the oldest reference)

> available in North India is BPHS. So BPHS is NOT the oldest book on

> astrology.

</SNIP>

 

Did you mean Jain school or Jyne school only? Do you have any idea of

approximate time period, like how many thousand years before was this?

 

<SNIP>

> But you forgot one thing. The Vedas and possibly the Agamas (Tantric

> texts, or should I say the Tantric tradition) are older than the

> Epics. In Vedas we could find the clear Sayana (Tropical Zodiac) and

> Nirayana (Sidereal Zodiac) classification. But it seems that the

> Vedas gave more importance to Sayana system - but here also, more

> research is necessary. The Tantric tradition seems to gave more

> importance to Nirayana system, and associate and correlate astrology

> with Yoga system. [More research necessary]

</SNIP>

 

I should ask you is astrology vedic then? meaning, is the vedic

astrology, what we follow now, the right term?

 

<SNIP>

> From the Vedic period itself for sure. Or may be far before that

> from the Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period itself - Many argue

> that it followed Tantric Tradition. [More research necessary]

</SNIP>

 

Was the before Indus valley? Let me google and see what this

civilization is all about, and if you have time please let me know of it.

 

So, which is the system kerala astrologers follow mostly ? Parashara /

jaimini / or the others (I dont mean to belittle others, I only know

of parashara and jaimini).

Finally, one last time, dont want to do it all the times and bloat you

, thanks for your patient long replies.

Surely this group is for me to stay and learn

 

If any of your books are in english, pls let me know of their titles.

 

-rAm

[Guest guest]

Dear rama ji,

<SNIP>

> Weak minds?? That makes us all inferior

</SNIP>

Anybody who depends TOO MUCH on astrology to face the hardships of

life is a weak mind. If you are ready to face what may come - good or

bad - why one should need astrology? Yes, it can be a tool of help,

like a torch. (If used properly, and if the predictions are cross

verified, and dependable. May be judged from the previous experience

of others) If I am ready to fall or ready to face the uncertainty,

why you should need the torch? But the common mass if really afraid

of the uncertainty - and ran after astrologers. The strong minds,

considered astrology valid, but does not depend TOO MUCH on it and is

ready to face what may come. The weak is always not inferior –

don't you heard the Chinese proverb that softly flowing water cause

corruption even to the hardest rocks? I would ask everybody to

take astrology lightly and in an inquisitive spirit. Even if there is

1% uncertainty that is important, right? It is uncertainty that makes

life beautiful; it is uncertainty is that makes will possible. (If

you compare will and destiny). Society always needs some

psychological guidance – and if take that responsibility, is it not

necessary that you should equip yourself with all the necessary

tools? That is why the sincere astrologer is forced to learn many

subjects like – psychology, details of rituals, morals and methods of

people in the country he is living in, environment, astrology, body

language, study of nature…….and what note. He is supposed to improve

his knowledge continuously, and keep his vigor always and live here

and now! Yes, to the astrologers who take study and practice of

astrology seriously, it finally becomes a responsibility than an game

that can be used light heartedly. Because they are interacting with

the life of people. Alas who will tell this fools more to depend on

their efforts and capabilities, rather than wait for the fate to

bring all the luck of the world to them!! Even if we tell, they

won't accept! As per Yanjchavalkaya Fate and Will are equally

important, and is like the 2 wheels of a chariot. With only one

wheel, where can it go? If a student goes for exam without studying

since the astrologer said that his fate is good and he is sure to

pass – will he pass? If a student goes to exam after studying almost

everything , putting in his strong will, but if the fate was against

and most of the questions where from the areas he left out – will he

pass? If the student is learning well putting in his full efforts

(executing will) and if the questions where all from the areas he

studied well (fate favored him) then he secures the maximum marks!!

Astrology is all about the study of the 50% - the fate part, and

tells you about its trend – that is all to it. And you have the other

part with you, the will – execute it or not it is up to you!! Those

who understands it, knows how to use and astrology, and also how to

ignore it when you are ready to face what may come. This is what I

meant.

 

<SNIP>

> Did you mean Jain school or Jyne school only? Do you have any idea

of

> approximate time period, like how many thousand years before was

this?

</SNIP>

I think you have heard about Budha and Jain. Yes, I was following a

wrong spelling! It is better to spell Jain. Yes, was mentioning

the Jain religion that started with Rishbha and in which the 24th

teerthankara was Varthamana Mahaveera. Rishabha Deva is mentioned in

Vedas. Jain religion, starts from Rishabha Deva, and Jain school of

astrological thought existed even in the period of Skanda Hora

(Jyotishmati Upanishad). That means it should be near to or just

after the Vedic period.

 

<SNIP>

> I should ask you is astrology vedic then? meaning, is the vedic

> astrology, what we follow now, the right term?

</SNIP>

Calling astrology Vedic would be a wrong terminology – since

you won't find much astrology in Vedas. But yes, the names of months

such as Madhu, Madhava etc and the name of Nakshatras and stars,

Division of stellar zodiac into Sayana and Nirayana, Horoscope

prediction related to the birth in Moola star, Muhoorta etc you will

find in Vedas. You won't find signs like Aries, Taurus etc mentioned

in Vedas, neither the house system nor dasas are mentioned in Vedas

which forms the basis for today's astrology. Further it seems that

Vedic Rishis gave importance to Tropical calendar and Nakshatra

chakra. Then who where the people who preserved Sidereal calendar and

Rasi chakra – it seems that it was Tantric. The conflict and

competition between Tropical and Sidereal calendar systems (Sayana

and Nirayana, Devas and Asuras, Vedic and Tantric, Nigama and Agama)

was there for long. We may know more about it more later. Even coming

to Mahabharata even though you can find astrology, you can not find

astrology in today's form or the mention of Rasis. But we know that

the Skanda hora (Jyotishmati Upanishad) and the texts like Garga hora

are very ancient. If the astrology of Veda, or Epic is not of today's

mould then who you are going to call today's astrology Vedic?! Even

it can not be sure that astrology originated from Vedas alone! As I

mentioned earlier there could be several streams – Vedic, Tantric, or

Jain. Somebody would like to accept the mention of Vedic and Tantric

but not Jain. But if we look back into history, Vishabaha Deva was

there even in Vedic period, and ask any North Indian astrologer he

will mention Surya Prajnchapti, and Chandra Prajnchapti and will

mention Rishiputa as the author. Who is Rishiputra – he is the son

of Garga Rishi who wrote Garga hora. I fail to understand why the

modern historians for astrology ignore Garga while mentioning Surya

Prajchapti and Chandra Prajnchapti as Jain contribution to astrology.

<SNIP>

> > from the Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period itself

> Was the before Indus valley?

> </SNIP>

They are the same. Since this civilization existed in the banks

of the rivers Sidhu and Saraswaty Rivers, it is better to call it

Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization than Indus valley civilization. That

is the name used now a day.

<SNIP>

> So, which is the system kerala astrologers follow mostly ?

Parashara /

> jaimini / or the others

</SNIP>

You could term it Arsha system or Sanatana system of

astrology. It starts with Skanda Hora of Skanda Deva. The ancient

texts that are considered of this stream are Skanda Hora, Brihal

Prajapatyam, Leghu Prajapatyam, Vasishta Hora, Kousika Hora, Sounaka

Hora etc. And the Gurus Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra, Sounaka

etc. In the period of Varaha Mihira (550 AD), it absorbed Yavana

system to a small extend. (Caused by Mihira). It was unknowingly

accepted as a mistake by Kerala astrologers and they still gave value

to the Arsha (or Sanatana) stream only. Garga was appreciated more

than Parasara, and Yavana was not ignored. They (ancient Kerala

astrologers) never knew much about jaimini nor give much importance

to it. So in essence Kerala astrologers does not follow Parasara

system or Jaimini system, and not much bothered about it, since they

have another many vast store house of astrological knowledge to look

into.

1) The Arsha (or Sanatana) system they followed.

2) The Jain school (Garga Hora) and the knowledge it provided.

3) The Yavana school (Yavaneswarea, Sphujidhwaja, Meenaraja) and

the knowledge it provided.

If you want to ignore all this ancient and locate the Acharya in AD

then, you should better term the Kerala school or system of astrology

as the " Mihira School " or better " Mihira-Aryabhatta School " since in

sidhantic astronomy they valued Aryabhatta and in astrology Mihira

and the ancient Rishis.

But yes, one thing we should accept. The Vimsottari Dasa

system suggested by Parasara later became a very well appreciated

favored Dasa system, which was used by almost all. So we should say

that the Kerala system was never against Parasara as well, though it

does not use many of his concepts, that were not at all mentioned by

Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra and Garga. Many of Parasara's

ideas are entirely different from the common and well appreciated

stream of astrology taught by these Rishis, and that caused the

alienation of Parasara. Same with Jaimini. His concepts where

entirely different from the well accepted common stream of astrology –

further he put everything in to sutras and not in slokas! Keralites

just ignored Jaimini!!!

This is what I know about the History of astrology followed or

preserved in Kerala.

<SNIP>

> If any of your books are in english, pls let me know of their

titles.

</SNIP>

Not yet. But in near future, it may become possible. All my books

are in Malayalam, and the best are yet to come or become published –

yes they too in Malayalam. At times I feel that my first English book

would be the collection of such messages I post on the forums. ) I

never used to right in English otherwise, and don't have much free

time. These are my prime efforts in the direction of writing in

English. Real efforts (as far as books are concerned) demands free

time, which I am currently lacking. But don't worry, this group is

a good median for our knowledge sharing I feel. And nothing to worry,

since it (knowledge) comes from all direction and we are in the

middle of treasures and no body is there around. )

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " RAma Vootla "

<vsra_prasad wrote:

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <SNIP>

> > 1) It is to help the weak minds, by the ones who have a strong

will

> > using all the tools they can collect and being sincere to the

extreme

> > possible extend to themselves.

> </SNIP>

>

> Weak minds?? That makes us all inferior

>

> <SNIP>

> > As per Arsha school - Skanda Hora [it was also known as

Jyotishmati

> > upanishad]

> > As per Jyne school - Garga Hora (Garga leaned this knowledge

from

> > Brahma it is said. Is there a text by Brahma for this school of

> > thought, before Garga? I don't know)

> > As per Yavana school of thought - May be Yawaneswara Hora (I

don't

> > know)

> > It is only that the oldest text (I won't say the oldest

reference)

> > available in North India is BPHS. So BPHS is NOT the oldest book

on

> > astrology.

> </SNIP>

>

> Did you mean Jain school or Jyne school only? Do you have any idea

of

> approximate time period, like how many thousand years before was

this?

>

> <SNIP>

> > But you forgot one thing. The Vedas and possibly the Agamas

(Tantric

> > texts, or should I say the Tantric tradition) are older than the

> > Epics. In Vedas we could find the clear Sayana (Tropical Zodiac)

and

> > Nirayana (Sidereal Zodiac) classification. But it seems that the

> > Vedas gave more importance to Sayana system - but here also, more

> > research is necessary. The Tantric tradition seems to gave more

> > importance to Nirayana system, and associate and correlate

astrology

> > with Yoga system. [More research necessary]

> </SNIP>

>

> I should ask you is astrology vedic then? meaning, is the vedic

> astrology, what we follow now, the right term?

>

> <SNIP>

> > From the Vedic period itself for sure. Or may be far before

that

> > from the Sindhu-Saraswaty civilization period itself - Many argue

> > that it followed Tantric Tradition. [More research necessary]

> </SNIP>

>

> Was the before Indus valley? Let me google and see what this

> civilization is all about, and if you have time please let me know

of it.

>

> So, which is the system kerala astrologers follow mostly ?

Parashara /

> jaimini / or the others (I dont mean to belittle others, I only know

> of parashara and jaimini).

> Finally, one last time, dont want to do it all the times and bloat

you

> , thanks for your patient long replies.

> Surely this group is for me to stay and learn

>

> If any of your books are in english, pls let me know of their

titles.

>

> -rAm

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings Sri Sreenadh --

 

<SNIP>

> As per Yanjchavalkaya Fate and Will are equally

> important, and is like the 2 wheels of a chariot. With only one

> wheel, where can it go? </SNIP>

 

That's a very good example. I think together they make an event 100%

and we never know the composition. So it's better we always give

100% of will. Fate surely would give it's 100%

 

<SNIP>

> The conflict and

> competition between Tropical and Sidereal calendar systems (Sayana

> and Nirayana, Devas and Asuras, Vedic and Tantric, Nigama and

Agama)

> was there for long. We may know more about it more later.

</SNIP>

 

Sure, will definitely pester you later for those

 

<SNIP> You could term it Arsha system or Sanatana system of

> astrology. It starts with Skanda Hora of Skanda Deva. The

ancient

> texts that are considered of this stream are Skanda Hora, Brihal

> Prajapatyam, Leghu Prajapatyam, Vasishta Hora, Kousika Hora,

Sounaka

> Hora etc. And the Gurus Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra,

Sounaka

> etc. In the period of Varaha Mihira (550 AD), it absorbed Yavana

> system to a small extend. (Caused by Mihira). It was unknowingly

> accepted as a mistake by Kerala astrologers and they still gave

value

> to the Arsha (or Sanatana) stream only. Garga was appreciated more

> than Parasara, and Yavana was not ignored. They (ancient Kerala

> astrologers) never knew much about jaimini nor give much

importance

> to it. So in essence Kerala astrologers does not follow Parasara

> system or Jaimini system, and not much bothered about it, since

they

> have another many vast store house of astrological knowledge to

look

> into.

> 1) The Arsha (or Sanatana) system they followed.

> 2) The Jain school (Garga Hora) and the knowledge it provided.

> 3) The Yavana school (Yavaneswarea, Sphujidhwaja, Meenaraja)

and

> the knowledge it provided.

> If you want to ignore all this ancient and locate the Acharya in

AD

> then, you should better term the Kerala school or system of

astrology

> as the " Mihira School " or better " Mihira-Aryabhatta School " since

in

> sidhantic astronomy they valued Aryabhatta and in astrology Mihira

> and the ancient Rishis.

> But yes, one thing we should accept. The Vimsottari Dasa

> system suggested by Parasara later became a very well appreciated

> favored Dasa system, which was used by almost all. So we should

say

> that the Kerala system was never against Parasara as well, though

it

> does not use many of his concepts, that were not at all mentioned

by

> Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra and Garga. Many of Parasara's

> ideas are entirely different from the common and well appreciated

> stream of astrology taught by these Rishis, and that caused the

> alienation of Parasara. Same with Jaimini. His concepts where

> entirely different from the well accepted common stream of

astrology –

> further he put everything in to sutras and not in slokas!

Keralites

> just ignored Jaimini!!!

> This is what I know about the History of astrology followed or

> preserved in Kerala.

</SNIP>

 

Nice to know. In a big picture, what is different between kerala

astrology and BPHS / jaimini?

Dont Kerala astrologers follow karakas (atma, amatya, etc..) and are

the yogas different (like guru chandala, mahapurusha, gaja

kesari,etc)?

 

Do you look at varga charts like dasamsa, saptamsa, etc? or is it

(like you said in one of the Nwsgrps) rasi,bhava,graha, rasi-bhava,

rasi-graha,etc..and other combinations and that too only in rasi and

navamsa charts?

 

-rAm

[Guest guest]

Dear RAma,

 

==>

> That's a very good example. I think together they make an event

100% and we never know the composition. So it's better we always give

> 100% of will. Fate surely would give it's 100%

<==

Yes, for sure. There is an interesting guess maths.

Let possibility of an event be 100%. Of this

Destiny = 50% (Pre-defined)

Will = 50% (Supposed to be non-predefined)

 

But the tendency to execute will is pre-defined! So give it 25%.

That means in the normal situation we will get 25% out put from will

only. The remaining 25% is the pure chance - that depends on the

execution of the first 25% and environment. Allow a normal 10% to

it.

When we are trying to predict the first 50%; If we make even a 30%

accurate prediction, then, we get a result -

30% + 25% + 10% = 65% Accurate prediction!

If the prediction (for destiny part) is 40% then we get -

40% + 25% + 10% = 75% Accurate prediction!

Even if we make a normal 50% prediction for a normal effort putting

person, then too, we get-

25% + 25% +10% = 60% Accurate prediction!

 

See how our work become simplified!!!

 

Lesson to learn : Don't try to make accurate predictions, for

persons with atleast normal will. ) Because then you have to

convert all that plus 10 % to minus 10% at least.

 

Don't extend it too much. It is just guss maths, without any

statistical basis. Just having some maths fun.

------------------------

 

==>

> In a big picture, what is different between kerala

> astrology and BPHS / jaimini?

> Dont Kerala astrologers follow karakas (atma, amatya, etc..) and

> are > the yogas different (like guru chandala, mahapurusha, gaja

> kesari,etc)?

> Do you look at varga charts like dasamsa, saptamsa, etc? or is it

> (like you said in one of the Nwsgrps) rasi,bhava,graha, rasi-bhava,

> rasi-graha,etc..and other combinations and that too only in rasi

> and navamsa charts?

<==

 

All big questions. Can't be answered fully in a single mail. So I

give a brief desc.

1) In a big picture, what is different between Kerala astrology and

BPHS / jaimini?

Read Mihira, Parasara & Jaimini - you will see the difference.

Usually what ever there in common is part of the Arsha stream, the

remaining are new inventions (or peculiar traditions) that are

usually ignored.

2) Don't Kerala astrologers follow karakas (atma, amatya, etc..) and

are the yogas different (like guru chandala, mahapurusha, gaja

kesari,etc)?

Yes, All karakas and 'special yogas' you mentioned are there. But

nobody would be calculating an 'Atma karaka' for a chart (that is

Parasara system) - Sun is atma karaka by natural significance.

3) Do you look at varga charts like dasamsa, saptamsa, etc?

There is NO VARGA CHARTS, but all Vargas like Hora, Drekkana,

Navamsa etc are considered. While predicting with 'considering'

Navamsa as well, Navamsa are written outside the Rasi chart near to

relevant signs (similar to the 'Mixed 2 Vargas' style in JHora) and

predictions given based on that. In other words Rasi chart and

Navamsa Varga are super-imposed and predictions are based on that.

Drishti is considered only in Rasi chart. This same style of

prediction applies to all other Vargas.

I will later explain to you with examples, and will explain how the

systems differ.

==>

or is it (like you said in one of the Nwsgrps) rasi,bhava,graha, rasi-

bhava, rasi-graha,etc..and other combinations

<==

Don't confuse the fundamental Yogas (mixing of significance

methods) in Astrology, and the 'Special Yogas' you mention about.

These 2 stands in 2 different levels of thinking. There could be only

7 fundamental Yogas (mixing methods/combinations), but there could be

thousands of special yogas. Remember all these thousands of special

yogas also falls into the basic 7 fundamental Yogas

(combinations/mixing methods). The translation of the word Yoga

(which really means combination) as 'mixing methods' is not proper -

but I think it will help you to grasp the concept.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " RAma Vootla "

<vsra_prasad wrote:

>

> Greetings Sri Sreenadh --

>

> <SNIP>

> > As per Yanjchavalkaya Fate and Will are equally

> > important, and is like the 2 wheels of a chariot. With only one

> > wheel, where can it go? </SNIP>

>

> That's a very good example. I think together they make an event

100%

> and we never know the composition. So it's better we always give

> 100% of will. Fate surely would give it's 100%

>

> <SNIP>

> > The conflict and

> > competition between Tropical and Sidereal calendar systems

(Sayana

> > and Nirayana, Devas and Asuras, Vedic and Tantric, Nigama and

> Agama)

> > was there for long. We may know more about it more later.

> </SNIP>

>

> Sure, will definitely pester you later for those

>

> <SNIP> You could term it Arsha system or Sanatana system of

> > astrology. It starts with Skanda Hora of Skanda Deva. The

> ancient

> > texts that are considered of this stream are Skanda Hora, Brihal

> > Prajapatyam, Leghu Prajapatyam, Vasishta Hora, Kousika Hora,

> Sounaka

> > Hora etc. And the Gurus Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra,

> Sounaka

> > etc. In the period of Varaha Mihira (550 AD), it absorbed Yavana

> > system to a small extend. (Caused by Mihira). It was unknowingly

> > accepted as a mistake by Kerala astrologers and they still gave

> value

> > to the Arsha (or Sanatana) stream only. Garga was appreciated

more

> > than Parasara, and Yavana was not ignored. They (ancient

Kerala

> > astrologers) never knew much about jaimini nor give much

> importance

> > to it. So in essence Kerala astrologers does not follow Parasara

> > system or Jaimini system, and not much bothered about it, since

> they

> > have another many vast store house of astrological knowledge to

> look

> > into.

> > 1) The Arsha (or Sanatana) system they followed.

> > 2) The Jain school (Garga Hora) and the knowledge it provided.

> > 3) The Yavana school (Yavaneswarea, Sphujidhwaja, Meenaraja)

> and

> > the knowledge it provided.

> > If you want to ignore all this ancient and locate the Acharya in

> AD

> > then, you should better term the Kerala school or system of

> astrology

> > as the " Mihira School " or better " Mihira-Aryabhatta School " since

> in

> > sidhantic astronomy they valued Aryabhatta and in astrology

Mihira

> > and the ancient Rishis.

> > But yes, one thing we should accept. The Vimsottari Dasa

> > system suggested by Parasara later became a very well appreciated

> > favored Dasa system, which was used by almost all. So we should

> say

> > that the Kerala system was never against Parasara as well, though

> it

> > does not use many of his concepts, that were not at all mentioned

> by

> > Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra and Garga. Many of

Parasara's

> > ideas are entirely different from the common and well appreciated

> > stream of astrology taught by these Rishis, and that caused the

> > alienation of Parasara. Same with Jaimini. His concepts where

> > entirely different from the well accepted common stream of

> astrology –

> > further he put everything in to sutras and not in slokas!

> Keralites

> > just ignored Jaimini!!!

> > This is what I know about the History of astrology followed or

> > preserved in Kerala.

> </SNIP>

>

> Nice to know. In a big picture, what is different between kerala

> astrology and BPHS / jaimini?

> Dont Kerala astrologers follow karakas (atma, amatya, etc..) and

are

> the yogas different (like guru chandala, mahapurusha, gaja

> kesari,etc)?

>

> Do you look at varga charts like dasamsa, saptamsa, etc? or is it

> (like you said in one of the Nwsgrps) rasi,bhava,graha, rasi-bhava,

> rasi-graha,etc..and other combinations and that too only in rasi

and

> navamsa charts?

>

> -rAm

>

[Guest guest]

Hi --

I found a similar article that I liked and wanted to share with you

all.

 

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm

 

 

regards

rAm

 

 

<----

> Greetings Sri Sreenadh --

>

> <SNIP>

> > As per Yanjchavalkaya Fate and Will are equally

> > important, and is like the 2 wheels of a chariot. With only one

> > wheel, where can it go? </SNIP>

>

> That's a very good example. I think together they make an event 100%

> and we never know the composition. So it's better we always give

> 100% of will. Fate surely would give it's 100%

>

--->

[Guest guest]

Dear RAma ji,

That was a good article. Thanks for providing the link.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " RAma Vootla "

<vsra_prasad wrote:

>

> Hi --

> I found a similar article that I liked and wanted to share with

you

> all.

>

> http://www.advaita-

vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm

>

>

> regards

> rAm

>

>

> <----

> > Greetings Sri Sreenadh --

> >

> > <SNIP>

> > > As per Yanjchavalkaya Fate and Will are equally

> > > important, and is like the 2 wheels of a chariot. With only one

> > > wheel, where can it go? </SNIP>

> >

> > That's a very good example. I think together they make an event

100%

> > and we never know the composition. So it's better we always give

> > 100% of will. Fate surely would give it's 100%

> >

> --->

>