Interconnections or Imaginary Inventions???

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

 

Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just read

about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what this

word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

 

In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " . I

tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity - but

believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably hear

birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of birds. I

have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this pranayama.

Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I am

trying to force interconnections even when they dont even exist.

 

But the great sages say that there are interconnections everywhere

and there is unity in the universe.

 

And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't uncertainty

inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably for a

fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

 

Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

prisoners of our fate.....???

 

And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

 

" What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our

method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going to set

up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to some

extent, the properties of the observed object. If the experimental

arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object will

change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

 

" Modern physics...works in a very different framework and cannot go

that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it has

made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern mystics in

atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of the

participator to replace that of the observer, and may even find it

necessary to include the human consciousness in its description of

the world. It has come to see the universe as an interconnected web

of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only defined

through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world view

emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric Buddhist,...

seems perfectly apropos:

 

The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could insert

himself. The external world and his inner world are for him only two

sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces and of

all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their objects, are

woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

relations. "

 

From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

 

Against this background I was struck by the following words -

 

* The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and the

qurent himself.

* He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day to

day life)

* He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in day

to day life)

Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more from

what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to say

what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so that it

would be beneficial to them.

 

So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

awareness, consciousness.....?

 

Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

knowledge than others???

 

The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

touched by the divine.

 

No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of Kaliyuga.

No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

times!!!

No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from us!!!!!

 

(Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinitaji,

 

As usual thought-provoking...

 

" The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

touched by the divine. "

 

Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not Shiva?

Am I not Shiva?

 

Yes, what is left is realising it...

 

Thanks

 

Souvik

 

 

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Dear Members,

>

> Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

> members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just

read

> about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what this

> word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

>

> In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " . I

> tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity -

but

> believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably hear

> birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of birds. I

> have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

pranayama.

> Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I am

> trying to force interconnections even when they dont even exist.

>

> But the great sages say that there are interconnections everywhere

> and there is unity in the universe.

>

> And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't uncertainty

> inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably for

a

> fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

>

> Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> prisoners of our fate.....???

>

> And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

>

> " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our

> method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going to

set

> up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to some

> extent, the properties of the observed object. If the experimental

> arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object

will

> change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

>

> " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and cannot

go

> that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it has

> made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern mystics in

> atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of the

> participator to replace that of the observer, and may even find it

> necessary to include the human consciousness in its description of

> the world. It has come to see the universe as an interconnected

web

> of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only defined

> through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world

view

> emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric Buddhist,...

> seems perfectly apropos:

>

> The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could insert

> himself. The external world and his inner world are for him only

two

> sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces and

of

> all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their objects,

are

> woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

> relations. "

>

> From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

>

> Against this background I was struck by the following words -

>

> * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and the

> qurent himself.

> * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day

to

> day life)

> * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in day

> to day life)

> Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more from

> what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to

say

> what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so that

it

> would be beneficial to them.

>

> So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

> selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

> awareness, consciousness.....?

>

> Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> knowledge than others???

>

> The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> touched by the divine.

>

> No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of Kaliyuga.

> No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

> times!!!

> No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from us!!!!!

>

> (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

>

[Guest guest]

Yes dear Souvik...u are shiva, i am shiva, everyone is shiva....but

are we really conscious of this? Why should any questions /doubts

arise? Are these questions / doubts not a measure of the distance

from " realising " shiva?

 

Love,

 

Vinita

 

, " Souvik Dutta "

<explore_vulcan wrote:

>

> Dear Vinitaji,

>

> As usual thought-provoking...

>

> " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> touched by the divine. "

>

> Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not Shiva?

> Am I not Shiva?

>

> Yes, what is left is realising it...

>

> Thanks

>

> Souvik

>

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> > astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

> > members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just

> read

> > about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what this

> > word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

> >

> > In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " . I

> > tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity -

> but

> > believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably

hear

> > birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of birds.

I

> > have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

> pranayama.

> > Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I am

> > trying to force interconnections even when they dont even exist.

> >

> > But the great sages say that there are interconnections

everywhere

> > and there is unity in the universe.

> >

> > And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't uncertainty

> > inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably

for

> a

> > fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

> >

> > Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> > prisoners of our fate.....???

> >

> > And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

> >

> > " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our

> > method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going to

> set

> > up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to some

> > extent, the properties of the observed object. If the

experimental

> > arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object

> will

> > change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

> >

> > " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and cannot

> go

> > that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it

has

> > made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern mystics

in

> > atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> > fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of

the

> > participator to replace that of the observer, and may even find

it

> > necessary to include the human consciousness in its description

of

> > the world. It has come to see the universe as an interconnected

> web

> > of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only

defined

> > through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world

> view

> > emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric

Buddhist,...

> > seems perfectly apropos:

> >

> > The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> > existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could

insert

> > himself. The external world and his inner world are for him only

> two

> > sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces and

> of

> > all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their objects,

> are

> > woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

> > relations. "

> >

> > From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

> >

> > Against this background I was struck by the following words -

> >

> > * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and

the

> > qurent himself.

> > * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day

> to

> > day life)

> > * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in

day

> > to day life)

> > Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more

from

> > what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to

> say

> > what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so

that

> it

> > would be beneficial to them.

> >

> > So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

> > selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

> > awareness, consciousness.....?

> >

> > Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> > objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> > knowledge than others???

> >

> > The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > touched by the divine.

> >

> > No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of Kaliyuga.

> > No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

> > times!!!

> > No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from

us!!!!!

> >

> > (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinita ji,

That was great!!

You said:

> Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> prisoners of our fate.....???

>

> And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

 

I would love say an YES to both that questions, but that is the

opinion of me, an individual. The society can never come in agreement

with it, but yes some individuals who share the same experience

can. Or in other words, I am agreeing to your words but don't

think that the mass will understand or share the same thoughts. It is

impossible by default, since only one level of

consciousness/awareness (collective consciousness) is known to all

and the individual experience of consciousness/awareness is too

subjective.

 

You said:

> So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

> selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

> awareness, consciousness.....?

I feel there is an amendment. Yes, an astrologer has immense

social responsibilities to selflessly benefit society. But in the

next line I fear you are mixing up things.

" .....once he gains knowledge, awareness, consciousness.....? "

Gaining knowledge is one thing – anyone who is ready to study/learn

can acquire knowledge. Astrologers, just like the students of any

other subject, are also supposed to gain knowledge. Now

comes, " awareness, consciousness " . Just for the sake of simplicity I

am taking them as same. The enlightened person is the fully aware and

fully conscious person. And of course such enlightened Rishis are the

creators of this system. But for us, it is not possible that we

become enlightened and then only try to use this system of knowledge.

Although Siva is everywhere realizing that is not an easy task.

So there should be a system that tries to generate, or train the

students astrology in such a way that, with the study, with the

observation methods and examples, the consciousness level and the

awareness of the students should improve. The gurus thought; even if

the astrologer is not dynamic and truly aware, let us give him a

system that at least helps him in making use of our awareness (i.e.

The awareness of those ancient gurus about the then present world,

society, nature, animals etc – who wrote those nimitta texts). But it

is true that awareness, being dynamic, loss its validity soon, when

converted to stiff (fixed and dead) laws of the book. So we should

(and is supposed to) try to collect it from the world around by

direct observation rather than resorting to ancient astrological

texts in such issues. But from ancient astrological texts on omens we

can collect the guiding principles. So what I want to say is that the

astrologer is " not supposed to benefit society ONCE he gains

knowledge, awareness, consciousness " , but " he is supposed to improve

his awareness/consciousness (without even he himself knowing it) when

he is collecting and practicing the knowledge of astrology. Yes, that

will benefit the society, and the astrologer as well is supposed to

put efforts in these directions – i.e. 1) Benefiting society 2)

Improving awareness/consciousness " . But even if he does not do it –

it happens by default, if he is a true student of astrology!! That is

how the system is designed!!!

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Dear Members,

>

> Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

> members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just read

> about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what this

> word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

>

> In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " . I

> tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity - but

> believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably hear

> birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of birds. I

> have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

pranayama.

> Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I am

> trying to force interconnections even when they dont even exist.

>

> But the great sages say that there are interconnections everywhere

> and there is unity in the universe.

>

> And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't uncertainty

> inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably for

a

> fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

>

> Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> prisoners of our fate.....???

>

> And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

>

> " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our

> method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going to set

> up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to some

> extent, the properties of the observed object. If the experimental

> arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object will

> change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

>

> " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and cannot go

> that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it has

> made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern mystics in

> atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of the

> participator to replace that of the observer, and may even find it

> necessary to include the human consciousness in its description of

> the world. It has come to see the universe as an interconnected web

> of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only defined

> through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world view

> emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric Buddhist,...

> seems perfectly apropos:

>

> The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could insert

> himself. The external world and his inner world are for him only

two

> sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces and of

> all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their objects, are

> woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

> relations. "

>

> From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

>

> Against this background I was struck by the following words -

>

> * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and the

> qurent himself.

> * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day to

> day life)

> * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in day

> to day life)

> Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more from

> what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to

say

> what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so that

it

> would be beneficial to them.

>

> So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

> selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

> awareness, consciousness.....?

>

> Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> knowledge than others???

>

> The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> touched by the divine.

>

> No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of Kaliyuga.

> No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

> times!!!

> No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from us!!!!!

>

> (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sauvik ji,

Thanks for restating the importance of the teaching of vinita ji:

" The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

touched by the divine. "

Yes, I too completely agree with that statement. This " divine " he

speaks about, I think, is " the rhythm " , " the oneness " , or " the inter

connectedness " we are having with the universe. Yes, realizing it

even to limited extends is very very important in astrology. Let us

not confuse it with " the ultimate realizing of the divine " , i.e.

Enlightenment, the realizing of Siva.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Souvik Dutta "

<explore_vulcan wrote:

>

> Dear Vinitaji,

>

> As usual thought-provoking...

>

> " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> touched by the divine. "

>

> Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not Shiva?

> Am I not Shiva?

>

> Yes, what is left is realising it...

>

> Thanks

>

> Souvik

>

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> > astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

> > members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just

> read

> > about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what this

> > word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

> >

> > In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " . I

> > tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity -

> but

> > believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably

hear

> > birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of birds.

I

> > have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

> pranayama.

> > Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I am

> > trying to force interconnections even when they dont even exist.

> >

> > But the great sages say that there are interconnections

everywhere

> > and there is unity in the universe.

> >

> > And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't uncertainty

> > inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably

for

> a

> > fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

> >

> > Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> > prisoners of our fate.....???

> >

> > And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

> >

> > " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our

> > method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going to

> set

> > up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to some

> > extent, the properties of the observed object. If the

experimental

> > arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object

> will

> > change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

> >

> > " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and cannot

> go

> > that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it has

> > made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern mystics

in

> > atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> > fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of

the

> > participator to replace that of the observer, and may even find

it

> > necessary to include the human consciousness in its description

of

> > the world. It has come to see the universe as an interconnected

> web

> > of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only defined

> > through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world

> view

> > emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric Buddhist,...

> > seems perfectly apropos:

> >

> > The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> > existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could insert

> > himself. The external world and his inner world are for him only

> two

> > sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces and

> of

> > all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their objects,

> are

> > woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

> > relations. "

> >

> > From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

> >

> > Against this background I was struck by the following words -

> >

> > * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and the

> > qurent himself.

> > * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day

> to

> > day life)

> > * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in

day

> > to day life)

> > Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more from

> > what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to

> say

> > what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so that

> it

> > would be beneficial to them.

> >

> > So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities to

> > selflessly benefit society.............once he gains knowledge,

> > awareness, consciousness.....?

> >

> > Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> > objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> > knowledge than others???

> >

> > The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > touched by the divine.

> >

> > No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of Kaliyuga.

> > No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

> > times!!!

> > No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from

us!!!!!

> >

> > (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shreenadh,

 

U said " teaching of vinita ji "

 

Should I laugh out loud or feel alarmed? Yes, I must be sounding

very preachy.....but most of the time it is an internal

dialogue...not directed at anyone in particular...just thinking

aloud....trying to make sense of things....miserably failing most of

the time....but the messages on the forum do provide mental

stimulation....

 

Love,

Vinita

 

 

 

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Sauvik ji,

> Thanks for restating the importance of the teaching of vinita ji:

> " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> touched by the divine. "

> Yes, I too completely agree with that statement. This " divine " he

> speaks about, I think, is " the rhythm " , " the oneness " , or " the

inter

> connectedness " we are having with the universe. Yes, realizing it

> even to limited extends is very very important in astrology. Let

us

> not confuse it with " the ultimate realizing of the divine " , i.e.

> Enlightenment, the realizing of Siva.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Souvik Dutta "

> <explore_vulcan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinitaji,

> >

> > As usual thought-provoking...

> >

> > " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge

of

> > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > touched by the divine. "

> >

> > Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not Shiva?

> > Am I not Shiva?

> >

> > Yes, what is left is realising it...

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Souvik

> >

> >

> > , " vinita kumar "

> > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> > > astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge of

> > > members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I just

> > read

> > > about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what

this

> > > word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

> > >

> > > In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga Pranayama " .

I

> > > tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to absurdity -

 

> > but

> > > believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably

> hear

> > > birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of

birds.

> I

> > > have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

> > pranayama.

> > > Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I

am

> > > trying to force interconnections even when they dont even

exist.

> > >

> > > But the great sages say that there are interconnections

> everywhere

> > > and there is unity in the universe.

> > >

> > > And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't

uncertainty

> > > inversely proportional to the level of consciousness? Probably

> for

> > a

> > > fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

> > >

> > > Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> > > prisoners of our fate.....???

> > >

> > > And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as well?

> > >

> > > " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to

our

> > > method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going

to

> > set

> > > up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to

some

> > > extent, the properties of the observed object. If the

> experimental

> > > arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed object

> > will

> > > change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

> > >

> > > " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and

cannot

> > go

> > > that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it

has

> > > made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern

mystics

> in

> > > atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> > > fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept of

> the

> > > participator to replace that of the observer, and may even

find

> it

> > > necessary to include the human consciousness in its

description

> of

> > > the world. It has come to see the universe as an

interconnected

> > web

> > > of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only

defined

> > > through their connections to the whole. To summarise the world

> > view

> > > emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric

Buddhist,...

> > > seems perfectly apropos:

> > >

> > > The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> > > existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could

insert

> > > himself. The external world and his inner world are for him

only

> > two

> > > sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces

and

> > of

> > > all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their

objects,

> > are

> > > woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually conditioned

> > > relations. "

> > >

> > > From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

> > >

> > > Against this background I was struck by the following words -

> > >

> > > * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and

the

> > > qurent himself.

> > > * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in

day

> > to

> > > day life)

> > > * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in

> day

> > > to day life)

> > > Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more

from

> > > what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there

to

> > say

> > > what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so

that

> > it

> > > would be beneficial to them.

> > >

> > > So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities

to

> > > selflessly benefit society.............once he gains

knowledge,

> > > awareness, consciousness.....?

> > >

> > > Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> > > objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> > > knowledge than others???

> > >

> > > The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge

of

> > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it

is

> > > touched by the divine.

> > >

> > > No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of

Kaliyuga.

> > > No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the earlier

> > > times!!!

> > > No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from

> us!!!!!

> > >

> > > (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinita ji,

It is a totally friendly statement that emerged from love and

reverence. We are all students through out our life, who knows even

before taking this body we were learning and for sure even after

death for the non destroyed components of the body this learning may

continue - is it that learning is another name for change and

adaptation? Or is it the urge of the soul to be one with the divine

reflected in another way?

Yes we are all students, and we all become the teachers of each

other at times.

You said:

> but most of the time it is an internal

> dialogue...not directed at anyone in particular...just thinking

> aloud....trying to make sense of things....

In India, there is a concept that Siva is the param guru, and also

that Siva is there within everyone. No one can be our guru but only

the divine within. To put it in another way, " Teachers can not teach

anything, but only help learning " !! It is only we ourselves can teach

ourselves!!!

So expressing a true internal dialogue, is one of the best method of

teaching, since then the divine makes its presents there, in the

midst of the free flowing thought. The prayer of every true learner

is -

" Madeeya hridayakase chidanamda mayo guru

Udetu satatam samyagajnchana timiraruna "

Meaning, May the divine guru rise with in me in the inner sky, like

the sun in whose presence darkness disappears.

So if not a true internal dialogue revealing the presence of

divine within words, if that is not teaching by the true guru, then

what is? I think this explains the use of the words – " the teaching

of vinita ji " .

PS: The true teacher is the person who is true to himself in

learning.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " vinita kumar "

<shankar_mamta wrote:

>

> Dear Shreenadh,

>

> U said " teaching of vinita ji "

>

> Should I laugh out loud or feel alarmed? Yes, I must be sounding

> very preachy.....but most of the time it is an internal

> dialogue...not directed at anyone in particular...just thinking

> aloud....trying to make sense of things....miserably failing most

of

> the time....but the messages on the forum do provide mental

> stimulation....

>

> Love,

> Vinita

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sauvik ji,

> > Thanks for restating the importance of the teaching of vinita ji:

> > " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge of

> > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > touched by the divine. "

> > Yes, I too completely agree with that statement. This " divine "

he

> > speaks about, I think, is " the rhythm " , " the oneness " , or " the

> inter

> > connectedness " we are having with the universe. Yes, realizing it

> > even to limited extends is very very important in astrology. Let

> us

> > not confuse it with " the ultimate realizing of the divine " , i.e.

> > Enlightenment, the realizing of Siva.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Souvik Dutta "

> > <explore_vulcan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Vinitaji,

> > >

> > > As usual thought-provoking...

> > >

> > > " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge

> of

> > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > > touched by the divine. "

> > >

> > > Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not

Shiva?

> > > Am I not Shiva?

> > >

> > > Yes, what is left is realising it...

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Souvik

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vinita kumar "

> > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Members,

> > > >

> > > > Most probably messages like this one do not have any place in

> > > > astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste knowledge

of

> > > > members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I

just

> > > read

> > > > about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know what

> this

> > > > word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

> > > >

> > > > In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga

Pranayama " .

> I

> > > > tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to

absurdity -

>

> > > but

> > > > believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I invariably

> > hear

> > > > birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of

> birds.

> > I

> > > > have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

> > > pranayama.

> > > > Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or I

> am

> > > > trying to force interconnections even when they dont even

> exist.

> > > >

> > > > But the great sages say that there are interconnections

> > everywhere

> > > > and there is unity in the universe.

> > > >

> > > > And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't

> uncertainty

> > > > inversely proportional to the level of consciousness?

Probably

> > for

> > > a

> > > > fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

> > > >

> > > > Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we are

> > > > prisoners of our fate.....???

> > > >

> > > > And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as

well?

> > > >

> > > > " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to

> our

> > > > method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is going

> to

> > > set

> > > > up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to

> some

> > > > extent, the properties of the observed object. If the

> > experimental

> > > > arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed

object

> > > will

> > > > change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics show...

> > > >

> > > > " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and

> cannot

> > > go

> > > > that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But it

> has

> > > > made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern

> mystics

> > in

> > > > atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> > > > fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the concept

of

> > the

> > > > participator to replace that of the observer, and may even

> find

> > it

> > > > necessary to include the human consciousness in its

> description

> > of

> > > > the world. It has come to see the universe as an

> interconnected

> > > web

> > > > of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only

> defined

> > > > through their connections to the whole. To summarise the

world

> > > view

> > > > emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric

> Buddhist,...

> > > > seems perfectly apropos:

> > > >

> > > > The Buddist does not believe in an independent or separately

> > > > existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could

> insert

> > > > himself. The external world and his inner world are for him

> only

> > > two

> > > > sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all forces

> and

> > > of

> > > > all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their

> objects,

> > > are

> > > > woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually

conditioned

> > > > relations. "

> > > >

> > > > From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

> > > >

> > > > Against this background I was struck by the following words -

> > > >

> > > > * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and

> the

> > > > qurent himself.

> > > > * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in

> day

> > > to

> > > > day life)

> > > > * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even

in

> > day

> > > > to day life)

> > > > Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more

> from

> > > > what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there

> to

> > > say

> > > > what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so

> that

> > > it

> > > > would be beneficial to them.

> > > >

> > > > So it seems an astrologer has immense social responsibilities

> to

> > > > selflessly benefit society.............once he gains

> knowledge,

> > > > awareness, consciousness.....?

> > > >

> > > > Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> > > > objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have more

> > > > knowledge than others???

> > > >

> > > > The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge

> of

> > > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it

> is

> > > > touched by the divine.

> > > >

> > > > No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of

> Kaliyuga.

> > > > No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the

earlier

> > > > times!!!

> > > > No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden from

> > us!!!!!

> > > >

> > > > (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

THANKYOU, Shreenadh for your kind words.

 

I will remember, " we are all students, and we all become the

teachers of each other at times. "

 

SAHANA VAVATU....

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Vinita ji,

> It is a totally friendly statement that emerged from love and

> reverence. We are all students through out our life, who knows

even

> before taking this body we were learning and for sure even after

> death for the non destroyed components of the body this learning

may

> continue - is it that learning is another name for change and

> adaptation? Or is it the urge of the soul to be one with the

divine

> reflected in another way?

> Yes we are all students, and we all become the teachers of each

> other at times.

> You said:

> > but most of the time it is an internal

> > dialogue...not directed at anyone in particular...just thinking

> > aloud....trying to make sense of things....

> In India, there is a concept that Siva is the param guru, and

also

> that Siva is there within everyone. No one can be our guru but

only

> the divine within. To put it in another way, " Teachers can not

teach

> anything, but only help learning " !! It is only we ourselves can

teach

> ourselves!!!

> So expressing a true internal dialogue, is one of the best method

of

> teaching, since then the divine makes its presents there, in the

> midst of the free flowing thought. The prayer of every true

learner

> is -

> " Madeeya hridayakase chidanamda mayo guru

> Udetu satatam samyagajnchana timiraruna "

> Meaning, May the divine guru rise with in me in the inner sky,

like

> the sun in whose presence darkness disappears.

> So if not a true internal dialogue revealing the presence of

> divine within words, if that is not teaching by the true guru,

then

> what is? I think this explains the use of the words – " the

teaching

> of vinita ji " .

> PS: The true teacher is the person who is true to himself in

> learning.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " vinita kumar "

> <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shreenadh,

> >

> > U said " teaching of vinita ji "

> >

> > Should I laugh out loud or feel alarmed? Yes, I must be sounding

> > very preachy.....but most of the time it is an internal

> > dialogue...not directed at anyone in particular...just thinking

> > aloud....trying to make sense of things....miserably failing

most

> of

> > the time....but the messages on the forum do provide mental

> > stimulation....

> >

> > Love,

> > Vinita

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sauvik ji,

> > > Thanks for restating the importance of the teaching of vinita

ji:

> > > " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that knowledge

of

> > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it is

> > > touched by the divine. "

> > > Yes, I too completely agree with that statement.

This " divine "

> he

> > > speaks about, I think, is " the rhythm " , " the oneness " , or " the

> > inter

> > > connectedness " we are having with the universe. Yes, realizing

it

> > > even to limited extends is very very important in astrology.

Let

> > us

> > > not confuse it with " the ultimate realizing of the divine " ,

i.e.

> > > Enlightenment, the realizing of Siva.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " Souvik

Dutta "

> > > <explore_vulcan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Vinitaji,

> > > >

> > > > As usual thought-provoking...

> > > >

> > > > " The limited purpose of writing this was to say that

knowledge

> > of

> > > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless it

is

> > > > touched by the divine. "

> > > >

> > > > Isn't divinity not in you? Isn't Shiva in you? Are you not

> Shiva?

> > > > Am I not Shiva?

> > > >

> > > > Yes, what is left is realising it...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Souvik

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vinita

kumar "

> > > > <shankar_mamta@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Members,

> > > > >

> > > > > Most probably messages like this one do not have any place

in

> > > > > astrology forums. BTW I am very awed by the vaste

knowledge

> of

> > > > > members on ancient branches of astrology in this forum. I

> just

> > > > read

> > > > > about nimittas (till some time back i didn't even know

what

> > this

> > > > > word meant....and even now I am not sure what it means).

> > > > >

> > > > > In the morning I do a pranayama called the " Kaaga

> Pranayama " .

> > I

> > > > > tell myself that I always stretch my imagination to

> absurdity -

> >

> > > > but

> > > > > believe it or not after finishing this pranayama I

invariably

> > > hear

> > > > > birds chirping. Maybe the pranayama makes me conscious of

> > birds.

> > > I

> > > > > have heard others also tell me that birds respond to this

> > > > pranayama.

> > > > > Now something within me tells me that this is nonsense. Or

I

> > am

> > > > > trying to force interconnections even when they dont even

> > exist.

> > > > >

> > > > > But the great sages say that there are interconnections

> > > everywhere

> > > > > and there is unity in the universe.

> > > > >

> > > > > And there is immense uncertainty as well. But isn't

> > uncertainty

> > > > > inversely proportional to the level of consciousness?

> Probably

> > > for

> > > > a

> > > > > fully conscious person there is no uncertainty.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it that the more is our lack of awareness, the more we

are

> > > > > prisoners of our fate.....???

> > > > >

> > > > > And paradoxically can we be prisoners of our knowledge as

> well?

> > > > >

> > > > > " What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed

to

> > our

> > > > > method of questioning " . The observer decides how he is

going

> > to

> > > > set

> > > > > up the measurement and this arrangement will determine, to

> > some

> > > > > extent, the properties of the observed object. If the

> > > experimental

> > > > > arrangement is modified, the properties of the observed

> object

> > > > will

> > > > > change in turn " ...or so experiments in quantum physics

show...

> > > > >

> > > > > " Modern physics...works in a very different framework and

> > cannot

> > > > go

> > > > > that far in the experience of the unity of all things. But

it

> > has

> > > > > made a great step towards the world view of the Eastern

> > mystics

> > > in

> > > > > atomic theory. Quantum theory has abolished the notion of

> > > > > fundamentally separated objects, has introduced the

concept

> of

> > > the

> > > > > participator to replace that of the observer, and may even

> > find

> > > it

> > > > > necessary to include the human consciousness in its

> > description

> > > of

> > > > > the world. It has come to see the universe as an

> > interconnected

> > > > web

> > > > > of physical and mental relations whose parts are not only

> > defined

> > > > > through their connections to the whole. To summarise the

> world

> > > > view

> > > > > emerging from atomic physics, the words of a Tantric

> > Buddhist,...

> > > > > seems perfectly apropos:

> > > > >

> > > > > The Buddist does not believe in an independent or

separately

> > > > > existing exernal world, into whose dynamic forces he could

> > insert

> > > > > himself. The external world and his inner world are for

him

> > only

> > > > two

> > > > > sides of the same fabric, in which the threads of all

forces

> > and

> > > > of

> > > > > all events, of all froms of consciousness and of their

> > objects,

> > > > are

> > > > > woven into an inseparable net of endless, mutually

> conditioned

> > > > > relations. "

> > > > >

> > > > > From The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.

> > > > >

> > > > > Against this background I was struck by the following

words -

> > > > >

> > > > > * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature

and

> > the

> > > > > qurent himself.

> > > > > * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even

in

> > day

> > > > to

> > > > > day life)

> > > > > * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear

(Even

> in

> > > day

> > > > > to day life)

> > > > > Meaning he observes with attention and understands much

more

> > from

> > > > > what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is

there

> > to

> > > > say

> > > > > what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould,

so

> > that

> > > > it

> > > > > would be beneficial to them.

> > > > >

> > > > > So it seems an astrologer has immense social

responsibilities

> > to

> > > > > selflessly benefit society.............once he gains

> > knowledge,

> > > > > awareness, consciousness.....?

> > > > >

> > > > > Are the motivations to study astrology fired by such noble

> > > > > objectives in our hearts??? Or do we just want to have

more

> > > > > knowledge than others???

> > > > >

> > > > > The limited purpose of writing this was to say that

knowledge

> > of

> > > > > astrology cannot perhaps be complete or of any use unless

it

> > is

> > > > > touched by the divine.

> > > > >

> > > > > No wonder we get all kinds of distortions in the age of

> > Kaliyuga.

> > > > > No wonder astrology was a preserve of the sages in the

> earlier

> > > > > times!!!

> > > > > No wonder many beautiful sutras are beautifully hidden

from

> > > us!!!!!

> > > > >

> > > > > (Sorry, did I offend anyone?)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>