Guest guest Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Dear All, The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not known at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based prediction system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and predictions based on that - only existed in that period? In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets are mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude that, in epic literature, Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? Please clarify. Love, Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dear Sreenadh: > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > not? Does anybody have a proof? Should we question the words uttered by the great Sage? Or should we accept them with undying faith? Is a proof really required? Faith can move mountains. DW , " Sreenadh " <sreelid wrote: > > Dear All, > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not known > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based prediction > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets are > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude that, > in epic literature, > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > Please clarify. > Love, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dear DW ji, Of course I agree - Faith can move mountains. And I believe that systematic research can bring out many evidence and logics behind the concepts and knowledge put forward by the seers. I know you would agree. We are finding the first reference to signs in Yanjncha Valkya Smrithi. The Mahabharata or Ramayana does not mention the signs (The Sanskrit name - Mesha, Vrishbha etc), though it describes general astrology in detail. It seems that only the astrology based on stellar divisions were popular on those days. But the subject demands more research and verification. A study of astrology then naturally becomes a study of allied subjects such as History, Astronomy and Calendar systems, Mathematics, Literature and many more! Yes. Many have studied the subject of astrology, just out of curiosity. But only a few approached it systematically, trying to re- establish the lost facts and logics, and also trying to explore new horizons. Let us also be in that path of few. The lines: " Two roads diverged in an wood, I took the one less traveled by And that has made all the difference " echoes in my mind. Let us change those lines, and sing together - " WE took the one less traveled by - and that has made all the difference " . It is probably the hardest way, but why should we think that there is another simple way at all! (Because all of them fail to clarify the clear and logical questions asked) When we walk though our hard way, for the people who follow us later, it becomes the simple path, all the hurdles removed. Yes, it is a distant dream. But we should have a big dream and aim to follow, at least to fulfill a small amount of it. Dream of conquering the mountain and practice, we could at least conquer the hills. It is belief that keeps me in this path. Yes, I too think - Faith can move mountains. Shh.... and I am tying to move one... ) Which mountain, I will explain - The logical and structural discrepancies in astrology today, by collecting/depending_on all the support I can get from those great seers. And this little simple person with out any special abilities or knowledge as I am, I wonder how can I do it. Yes, may be me alone can not - but a group can!! Because there are many others who are far better than me, (in this group itself, and also in other groups), who has already done great efforts in this direction!! (Correcting the logical and structural discrepancies in astrology today, by collecting/depending_on all the support we can get from those great seers). Yes. So if not me, many others can/will do it, and they are working in this direction. (me too...). Some of them are members this group, and some are not! When I say this, 1) I remember Chandra Hari who corrected and supplied evidence related to the conceptual errors crept into modern astrology related to Ayanamsa. 2) PVR ji, of Vedic Astrology forum who created a great software and supplied it free to the world. 3) Persons like Dakshinamoorthi ji, Pandit ji etc who dedicated their life and work for the cause of astrology. Yes there are many more. And the list is endless, ever growing… I respect and bow before those many who become part of such efforts due to their pure and selfless interest and curiosity in astrology and the respect for ancient knowledge. Yes, all these people, I feel close to my heart. At the end, I feel like asking to myself, What is the purpose of any research in to ancient astrology? And the answer pops up - Yes, It is required since, it makes this system more dependable, fruitful, beneficial to many. It helps us in revealing the truthfulness of Rishi vakyas to many. The great Sages uttered it, since they want us to know, and we do the same since we want them to realize the greatness of those words by seers. Knowledgeable people approach everything systematical and in a structured way. They demand proof and evidence for everything. So we try to collect them, and present it to the posterity in a well structured way, since it is what they demand! Please correct me, if you find any of my thoughts going in the wrong direction. Love Sreenadh , " astrod9999 " <astrod9999 wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh: > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > not? Does anybody have a proof? > > Should we question the words uttered by the great Sage? Or should we > accept them with undying faith? Is a proof really required? > > Faith can move mountains. > > DW > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > known > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > prediction > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets > are > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > that, > > in epic literature, > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > Please clarify. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dear Sreenadh: Thank you for taking the pain to write at length. > 1) I remember Chandra Hari who corrected and supplied evidence > related to the conceptual errors crept into modern astrology related > to Ayanamsa. > 2) PVR ji, of Vedic Astrology forum who created a great software and > supplied it free to the world. > 3) Persons like Dakshinamoorthi ji, Pandit ji etc who dedicated > their life and work for the cause of astrology. > Yes there are many more. And the list is endless, ever growing… I All said and done, in the end it is all about the " jyoti " . is it not? Anything that leads towards that " jyoti " is the path to be followed. Maa asato maa sad gamaya Tamaso maa jyotir gamaya Rgds, DW , " Sreenadh " <sreelid wrote: > > Dear DW ji, > Of course I agree - Faith can move mountains. And I believe that > systematic research can bring out many evidence and logics behind the > concepts and knowledge put forward by the seers. I know you would > agree. > We are finding the first reference to signs in Yanjncha Valkya > Smrithi. The Mahabharata or Ramayana does not mention the signs (The > Sanskrit name - Mesha, Vrishbha etc), though it describes general > astrology in detail. It seems that only the astrology based on > stellar divisions were popular on those days. But the subject demands > more research and verification. > A study of astrology then naturally becomes a study of allied > subjects such as History, Astronomy and Calendar systems, > Mathematics, Literature and many more! > Yes. Many have studied the subject of astrology, just out of > curiosity. But only a few approached it systematically, trying to re- > establish the lost facts and logics, and also trying to explore new > horizons. Let us also be in that path of few. > The lines: > " Two roads diverged in an wood, > I took the one less traveled by > And that has made all the difference " > echoes in my mind. Let us change those lines, and sing together - > " WE took the one less traveled by - and that has made all the > difference " . > It is probably the hardest way, but why should we think that there > is another simple way at all! (Because all of them fail to clarify > the clear and logical questions asked) When we walk though our hard > way, for the people who follow us later, it becomes the simple path, > all the hurdles removed. Yes, it is a distant dream. But we should > have a big dream and aim to follow, at least to fulfill a small > amount of it. Dream of conquering the mountain and practice, we could > at least conquer the hills. It is belief that keeps me in this path. > Yes, I too think - Faith can move mountains. Shh.... and I am tying > to move one... ) Which mountain, I will explain - The logical and > structural discrepancies in astrology today, by > collecting/depending_on all the support I can get from those great > seers. And this little simple person with out any special abilities > or knowledge as I am, I wonder how can I do it. > Yes, may be me alone can not - but a group can!! Because there are > many others who are far better than me, (in this group itself, and > also in other groups), who has already done great efforts in this > direction!! (Correcting the logical and structural discrepancies in > astrology today, by collecting/depending_on all the support we can > get from those great seers). Yes. So if not me, many others can/will > do it, and they are working in this direction. (me too...). Some of > them are members this group, and some are not! When I say this, > 1) I remember Chandra Hari who corrected and supplied evidence > related to the conceptual errors crept into modern astrology related > to Ayanamsa. > 2) PVR ji, of Vedic Astrology forum who created a great software and > supplied it free to the world. > 3) Persons like Dakshinamoorthi ji, Pandit ji etc who dedicated > their life and work for the cause of astrology. > Yes there are many more. And the list is endless, ever growing… I > respect and bow before those many who become part of such efforts due > to their pure and selfless interest and curiosity in astrology and > the respect for ancient knowledge. Yes, all these people, I feel > close to my heart. > At the end, I feel like asking to myself, What is the purpose of > any research in to ancient astrology? And the answer pops up - Yes, > It is required since, it makes this system more dependable, fruitful, > beneficial to many. It helps us in revealing the truthfulness of > Rishi vakyas to many. The great Sages uttered it, since they want us > to know, and we do the same since we want them to realize the > greatness of those words by seers. Knowledgeable people approach > everything systematical and in a structured way. They demand proof > and evidence for everything. So we try to collect them, and present > it to the posterity in a well structured way, since it is what they > demand! Please correct me, if you find any of my thoughts going in > the wrong direction. > Love > Sreenadh > > , " astrod9999 " > <astrod9999@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh: > > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > > or > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? > > > > Should we question the words uttered by the great Sage? Or should > we > > accept them with undying faith? Is a proof really required? > > > > Faith can move mountains. > > > > DW > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > > or > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > > known > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > prediction > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > planets > > are > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > > that, > > > in epic literature, > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > Please clarify. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Dear DW ji, > Anything that leads towards that " jyoti " is the path to be > followed. I agree to that statement. Thanks. Love, Sreenadh , " astrod9999 " <astrod9999 wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh: > > Thank you for taking the pain to write at length. > > > 1) I remember Chandra Hari who corrected and supplied evidence > > related to the conceptual errors crept into modern astrology > related > > to Ayanamsa. > > 2) PVR ji, of Vedic Astrology forum who created a great software > and > > supplied it free to the world. > > 3) Persons like Dakshinamoorthi ji, Pandit ji etc who dedicated > > their life and work for the cause of astrology. > > Yes there are many more. And the list is endless, ever growing… > I > > All said and done, in the end it is all about the " jyoti " . is it > not? Anything that leads towards that " jyoti " is the path to be > followed. > > Maa asato maa sad gamaya > Tamaso maa jyotir gamaya > > Rgds, > > DW > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > Dear DW ji, > > Of course I agree - Faith can move mountains. And I believe that > > systematic research can bring out many evidence and logics behind > the > > concepts and knowledge put forward by the seers. I know you > would > > agree. > > We are finding the first reference to signs in Yanjncha Valkya > > Smrithi. The Mahabharata or Ramayana does not mention the signs > (The > > Sanskrit name - Mesha, Vrishbha etc), though it describes general > > astrology in detail. It seems that only the astrology based on > > stellar divisions were popular on those days. But the subject > demands > > more research and verification. > > A study of astrology then naturally becomes a study of allied > > subjects such as History, Astronomy and Calendar systems, > > Mathematics, Literature and many more! > > Yes. Many have studied the subject of astrology, just out of > > curiosity. But only a few approached it systematically, trying to > re- > > establish the lost facts and logics, and also trying to explore > new > > horizons. Let us also be in that path of few. > > The lines: > > " Two roads diverged in an wood, > > I took the one less traveled by > > And that has made all the difference " > > echoes in my mind. Let us change those lines, and sing together - > > " WE took the one less traveled by - and that has made all the > > difference " . > > It is probably the hardest way, but why should we think that > there > > is another simple way at all! (Because all of them fail to clarify > > the clear and logical questions asked) When we walk though our > hard > > way, for the people who follow us later, it becomes the simple > path, > > all the hurdles removed. Yes, it is a distant dream. But we should > > have a big dream and aim to follow, at least to fulfill a small > > amount of it. Dream of conquering the mountain and practice, we > could > > at least conquer the hills. It is belief that keeps me in this > path. > > Yes, I too think - Faith can move mountains. Shh.... and I am > tying > > to move one... ) Which mountain, I will explain - The logical > and > > structural discrepancies in astrology today, by > > collecting/depending_on all the support I can get from those great > > seers. And this little simple person with out any special > abilities > > or knowledge as I am, I wonder how can I do it. > > Yes, may be me alone can not - but a group can!! Because there > are > > many others who are far better than me, (in this group itself, and > > also in other groups), who has already done great efforts in this > > direction!! (Correcting the logical and structural discrepancies > in > > astrology today, by collecting/depending_on all the support we can > > get from those great seers). Yes. So if not me, many others > can/will > > do it, and they are working in this direction. (me too...). Some > of > > them are members this group, and some are not! When I say this, > > 1) I remember Chandra Hari who corrected and supplied evidence > > related to the conceptual errors crept into modern astrology > related > > to Ayanamsa. > > 2) PVR ji, of Vedic Astrology forum who created a great software > and > > supplied it free to the world. > > 3) Persons like Dakshinamoorthi ji, Pandit ji etc who dedicated > > their life and work for the cause of astrology. > > Yes there are many more. And the list is endless, ever growing… > I > > respect and bow before those many who become part of such efforts > due > > to their pure and selfless interest and curiosity in astrology and > > the respect for ancient knowledge. Yes, all these people, I feel > > close to my heart. > > At the end, I feel like asking to myself, What is the purpose of > > any research in to ancient astrology? And the answer pops up - > Yes, > > It is required since, it makes this system more dependable, > fruitful, > > beneficial to many. It helps us in revealing the truthfulness of > > Rishi vakyas to many. The great Sages uttered it, since they want > us > > to know, and we do the same since we want them to realize the > > greatness of those words by seers. Knowledgeable people approach > > everything systematical and in a structured way. They demand proof > > and evidence for everything. So we try to collect them, and > present > > it to the posterity in a well structured way, since it is what > they > > demand! Please correct me, if you find any of my thoughts going in > > the wrong direction. > > Love > > Sreenadh > > > > , " astrod9999 " > > <astrod9999@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh: > > > > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of > Mahabharata > > > or > > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? > > > > > > Should we question the words uttered by the great Sage? Or > should > > we > > > accept them with undying faith? Is a proof really required? > > > > > > Faith can move mountains. > > > > > > DW > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of > Mahabharata > > > or > > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > > > known > > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > > prediction > > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > > planets > > > are > > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we > conclude > > > that, > > > > in epic literature, > > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different > Nakshatras? > > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > > Please clarify. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Dear Sreenath, With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good beginning and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the international web of Jyotisham. Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present form across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of one author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or even during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the questioning of traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for truth, we must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would have been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead of Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare the numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and Krishna? There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, Ujjayini, Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like Thirumandhamkunnu and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple at Ayodhya? Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at Ayodhya in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient temples, palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not giving evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the contrary cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none has found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare the Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why the Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is it that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without weekdays can there be astrology? These are some thoughts that came to my mind. chandra hari , " Sreenadh " <sreelid wrote: > > Dear All, > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not known > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based prediction > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets are > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude that, > in epic literature, > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > Please clarify. > Love, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Dear Hari ji, Thank you for the guidance. This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based on evidence only. > But if we are looking for truth, we > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! Thanks for providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have answers to the other questions put forward by you as well. > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. And now you have made us think in those lines as well. Yes, I agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even though I fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the lessons they give. We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the various issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, which frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a systematic manner. " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " With Love and Regards, Sreenadh , " K Chandra Hari " <chandrahari81 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenath, > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good beginning > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the international > web of Jyotisham. > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present form > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of one > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or even > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the questioning of > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for truth, we > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on Gita > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would have > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead of > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare the > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and Krishna? > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, Ujjayini, > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like Thirumandhamkunnu > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple at > Ayodhya? > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at Ayodhya > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient temples, > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not giving > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the contrary > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none has > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare the > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why the > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is it > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > weekdays can there be astrology? > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > chandra hari > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > known > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > prediction > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets > are > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > that, > > in epic literature, > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > Please clarify. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 dear friends firstly my appreciation of sreendh ji for creating this dedicated group to discuss " ancient indian astrology " and look forward to share as little as i know and learn as i much as i can. all the thoughts that came into sri chandra hari's mind had come to my mind also, rather they come to all knowledge seeking minds. since history, astrology and mythology are all inexplicably intertwined, let me touch them in my limited knowledge. both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan give details of planets, stars and their significance in various places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength to the characters. as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references of ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and christian invaders. kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of lord vishnu and also ayodhya. if we are to find out historical support of these mentions, it would be a great exercise and we can contribute with whatever references we could lay hands on. with best wishes and regards pandit arjun , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Hari ji, > Thank you for the guidance. > This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based on > evidence only. > > But if we are looking for truth, we > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! Thanks for > providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have answers to > the other questions put forward by you as well. > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > And now you have made us think in those lines as well. Yes, I > agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in > getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even though I > fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the > lessons they give. > We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the various > issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, which > frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a > systematic manner. > " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " > With Love and Regards, > Sreenadh > > , " K Chandra Hari " > <chandrahari81@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenath, > > > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good > beginning > > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the > international > > web of Jyotisham. > > > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to > > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present form > > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of one > > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or even > > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the questioning > of > > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for truth, > we > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > Gita > > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would have > > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead of > > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare the > > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and Krishna? > > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, > Ujjayini, > > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like > Thirumandhamkunnu > > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple at > > Ayodhya? > > > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of > > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at Ayodhya > > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient > temples, > > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not giving > > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the > contrary > > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none has > > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare the > > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why the > > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is it > > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? > > > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > weekdays can there be astrology? > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > > known > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > prediction > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > planets > > are > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > > that, > > > in epic literature, > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > Please clarify. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, Thank you for joining this group, where we can sincerely try to ponder into the issues in astrology, and hopefully bring out at least some results. Yes, in this effort due to sharing of knowledge, our understanding of the subject is sure to improve. We look forward to receive whatever knowledge we can from you. About astrology in epic period you wrote: > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength > to the characters. Sorry, I couldn't grasp the point. Will you please clarify. Especially the part " but their relative strength to the characters " . > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references of > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > christian invaders. Can you provide the material available to us? Is there any legal issues involved? If not can you please upload that data in the files section to help further research? > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. Oh!! Here many km away from my home in my workplace, I don't have Raghuvamsham with me. Yes, but I noted the point, and will take the first instance to note down those historically important slokas. I request Chandra Hari to make special note of this - but may be probably he may also be aware of it. But yes, it is really a new info for me. Thanks. Dear Arjun ji, if you don't mind, please provide that sloka as well. I am feeling shy, because once you have provided this info, I should have to collect the sloka myself. Thanks for the good and informative mail. " Ohm Sahanavavatu, Sahanoubunaktu.... Sahaveeryam karavavahai, Thejasweenamadheenamastu... ma vidishavahi...Ohm..Santi..Santi..Santi... " Love, Sreenadh , " panditarjun2004 " <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear friends > > firstly my appreciation of sreendh ji for creating this dedicated > group to discuss " ancient indian astrology " and look forward to > share as little as i know and learn as i much as i can. > > all the thoughts that came into sri chandra hari's mind had come to > my mind also, rather they come to all knowledge seeking minds. > since history, astrology and mythology are all inexplicably > intertwined, let me touch them in my limited knowledge. > > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength to the > characters. > > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references of > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > christian invaders. > > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. > > if we are to find out historical support of these mentions, it would > be a great exercise and we can contribute with whatever references > we could lay hands on. > > with best wishes and regards > pandit arjun > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Hari ji, > > Thank you for the guidance. > > This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based on > > evidence only. > > > But if we are looking for truth, we > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! Thanks > for > > providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have answers to > > the other questions put forward by you as well. > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > And now you have made us think in those lines as well. Yes, I > > agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in > > getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even > though I > > fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the > > lessons they give. > > We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the various > > issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, which > > frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a > > systematic manner. > > " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " > > With Love and Regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " K Chandra Hari " > > <chandrahari81@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenath, > > > > > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good > > beginning > > > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the > > international > > > web of Jyotisham. > > > > > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to > > > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present > form > > > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of > one > > > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or > even > > > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the > questioning > > of > > > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for > truth, > > we > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > Gita > > > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would > have > > > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead > of > > > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare the > > > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and > Krishna? > > > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, > > Ujjayini, > > > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like > > Thirumandhamkunnu > > > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple > at > > > Ayodhya? > > > > > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of > > > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at > Ayodhya > > > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > > > > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient > > temples, > > > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not > giving > > > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the > > contrary > > > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none > has > > > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > > > > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > > > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare the > > > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why > the > > > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is > it > > > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? > > > > > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > > weekdays can there be astrology? > > > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of > Mahabharata > > or > > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > > > known > > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > > prediction > > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > > planets > > > are > > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we > conclude > > > that, > > > > in epic literature, > > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different > Nakshatras? > > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > > Please clarify. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 dear sreenadh ji since you are the group owner and started this group with a large databank and have already started showing glimpses of the knowledge treasure you have, i am here only to read, know and learn whatever i could from the contributions of you and other fraternity. in learning so, i may contribute little from my limited knowledge. 1. in epics, the heros and villains are all called characters. while mentioning about the mahabharata and ramayana, my observation was that these people were described for their traits due to what star or planet. also several auspicious muhurtas as per panchang were detailed. by the way the original mahabharat of more than thirty volumes published decades ago contain more minute details at micro level which unfortunately i could see in my childhood but could not read till date as they are lost and are available only in few libraries. 2. the evidence for ramjanmabhoomi was prepared in a book form in early 1990s and was submitted to the government of india as well as the courts and other media. it is not a legal document and is available in the public. however, soft version of that is not available. there are few more further publications of VHP which give further proof of ayodhya. there are many VHP sympathisers who have created dozens of websites and posted most of this and more information scanned and posted in those sites. 3. sri hari ji was lamenting for ayodhya not finding mention in historic books and government records and observed how kalidasa omitted mention of ayodhaya in his book raghuvamsham. to this i observed that there are MANY historic books starting from vishnupurana and skandapurana besides the epics mahabhrat and ramayan and hundreds of medieval classics mentioning lord ram's ayodya including the book raghuvamsham. hari ji first mentioned that kalidasa talks about other places in kumarasambhavam but not ayodhya in raghuvamsham. if it kumarasambhavam, i do not know, but if it is raghuvamsham, kalidasa made no omission of ayodhya. with best wishes and regards pandit arjun , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Arjun ji, > Thank you for joining this group, where we can sincerely try to > ponder into the issues in astrology, and hopefully bring out at least > some results. Yes, in this effort due to sharing of knowledge, our > understanding of the subject is sure to improve. We look forward to > receive whatever knowledge we can from you. > About astrology in epic period you wrote: > > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength > > to the characters. > Sorry, I couldn't grasp the point. Will you please clarify. > Especially the part " but their relative strength to the characters " . > > > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references of > > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > > christian invaders. > Can you provide the material available to us? Is there any legal > issues involved? If not can you please upload that data in the files > section to help further research? > > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. > Oh!! Here many km away from my home in my workplace, I don't have > Raghuvamsham with me. Yes, but I noted the point, and will take the > first instance to note down those historically important slokas. I > request Chandra Hari to make special note of this - but may be > probably he may also be aware of it. But yes, it is really a new info > for me. Thanks. Dear Arjun ji, if you don't mind, please provide that > sloka as well. I am feeling shy, because once you have provided this > info, I should have to collect the sloka myself. > Thanks for the good and informative mail. > > " Ohm Sahanavavatu, Sahanoubunaktu.... > Sahaveeryam karavavahai, Thejasweenamadheenamastu... > ma vidishavahi...Ohm..Santi..Santi..Santi... " > > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " panditarjun2004 " > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear friends > > > > firstly my appreciation of sreendh ji for creating this dedicated > > group to discuss " ancient indian astrology " and look forward to > > share as little as i know and learn as i much as i can. > > > > all the thoughts that came into sri chandra hari's mind had come to > > my mind also, rather they come to all knowledge seeking minds. > > since history, astrology and mythology are all inexplicably > > intertwined, let me touch them in my limited knowledge. > > > > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength to > the > > characters. > > > > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references of > > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > > christian invaders. > > > > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. > > > > if we are to find out historical support of these mentions, it > would > > be a great exercise and we can contribute with whatever references > > we could lay hands on. > > > > with best wishes and regards > > pandit arjun > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Hari ji, > > > Thank you for the guidance. > > > This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based on > > > evidence only. > > > > But if we are looking for truth, we > > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > > > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! Thanks > > for > > > providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have answers > to > > > the other questions put forward by you as well. > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > And now you have made us think in those lines as well. Yes, I > > > agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in > > > getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even > > though I > > > fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the > > > lessons they give. > > > We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the various > > > issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, > which > > > frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a > > > systematic manner. > > > " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " > > > With Love and Regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " K Chandra Hari " > > > <chandrahari81@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenath, > > > > > > > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good > > > beginning > > > > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the > > > international > > > > web of Jyotisham. > > > > > > > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to > > > > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present > > form > > > > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of > > one > > > > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or > > even > > > > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the > > questioning > > > of > > > > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for > > truth, > > > we > > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > > Gita > > > > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > > > > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would > > have > > > > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead > > of > > > > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare > the > > > > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and > > Krishna? > > > > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, > > > Ujjayini, > > > > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like > > > Thirumandhamkunnu > > > > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple > > at > > > > Ayodhya? > > > > > > > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples > of > > > > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at > > Ayodhya > > > > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > > > > > > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient > > > temples, > > > > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not > > giving > > > > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the > > > contrary > > > > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none > > has > > > > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > > > > > > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > > > > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare > the > > > > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why > > the > > > > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is > > it > > > > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? > > > > > > > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > > > weekdays can there be astrology? > > > > > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of > > Mahabharata > > > or > > > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was > not > > > > known > > > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > > > prediction > > > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > > > planets > > > > are > > > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we > > conclude > > > > that, > > > > > in epic literature, > > > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different > > Nakshatras? > > > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, It is better to think that this group does not have an owner, or that we are all owners of this group. This group is not here to promote the interest of any (no, no, not mine, or chandrahari's, or any body else), but just to promote true and sincere research. Who ever does that, and shows us the path, let them guide us. Let us share our respect with them, who ever they are. In one message it could be You, in another me, and in yet another some one else. I was asking that doubt with complete sincerity. Just to learn from your knowledge and understanding of that subject. Yes, our mind is like a torch, where ever we turn it to only that we can see, and the other areas may remain dark. For my mind the history of Ayodhya, (based on direct evidences) and the puranic quotes about it was a dark area of knowledge. And that was why, I was requesting you for providing it. Yes, now I will search for books by VHP on that. Dear Arjun ji, I am a native of Kerala. But recently jointed an IT company in Delhi, and is currently working in Rajastan on the client side, in Pipeline field. I have a very good library there in Kerala, but currently, sitting here in a remote place in Rajastan, away from city, I have access only to computer and net. Yes, if I was in Kerala, then collecting that entire ref would have been just a day's task for me, but now not. So please don't doubt my sincerity when I ask doubts, I ask them giving 100% of my attention, and I try to listen and learn from each and every conversation that happens in this forum. It is just a knowledge sharing space and there is no owners or leaders here - certainly not me. May knowledge and truth guide us. Let us pray to the goddess of truth and knowledge goddess Saraswaty to guide us all. For me lord Siva (who creates and destructs everything, and is one with time, the mahakala or kala purusha) is the father, and goddess Parvati (the nature and universe) the mother, and everybody my relatives. Yes, it is just the personal path of Upasana. I want to be as humble as I can and leave aside the ego. But yes, at times uses it like the sward of a Kshetria to protect, but detached - or better I want to be a person who could do this. So when my humbleness is reflected, please don't feel that I am hiding something, since you have seen me exerting and using my ego. I am humble - because I am nothing. For Zero we came and to Zero we go. In between let us enjoy the subjects we love - because we all love the joy of life. Why, I don't know, I felt like these much personals things, today, sorry. Going back to the subject of discussion, taking the 3rd party view: Hari ji said: > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at > Ayodhya in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? This means Hari ji thinks/couldn't find the mention of Ayodhya in Raghuvamsam. Arjun ji said: > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. This means Arjun ji could find the mention of Ayodhya in Raghuvamsam. These statements contradict!! Who is correct? I don't know. It would be clear to all, if Arjun ji helps us by providing the sloka no, or reference. > there are MANY historic books starting from > vishnupurana and skandapurana besides the epics mahabhrat and > ramayan and hundreds of medieval classics mentioning lord ram's > ayodya including the book raghuvamsham. Yes, I agree completely. But I know that hari is thinking of " historical facts " - archeological evidences, presence/ref. of temples in literarily works the period of which (the period at which that books were written) is clear etc. I feel that what you say and what he says is correct and clear in this respect. Hari has high regard for Siva, Sakti, Kumara etc and the Sindhu-Saraswaty, Tantric and Dravidian culture. All these would add extra flavor to Each and every line he writes, which I too think is good for the revival of that vast lost knowledge. But keep this things in mind while reading what Hari writes, to get an impartial view. Yes, it is also right that usually he don't write/speak about things without supportive evidence. That ref. on Raghuvamsam, I don't know, you 2 clarify - and don't make me confused. With great love and regards, Sreenadh , " panditarjun2004 " <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear sreenadh ji > > since you are the group owner and started this group with a large > databank and have already started showing glimpses of the knowledge > treasure you have, i am here only to read, know and learn whatever i > could from the contributions of you and other fraternity. in > learning so, i may contribute little from my limited knowledge. > > 1. in epics, the heros and villains are all called characters. > while mentioning about the mahabharata and ramayana, my observation > was that these people were described for their traits due to what > star or planet. also several auspicious muhurtas as per panchang > were detailed. by the way the original mahabharat of more than > thirty volumes published decades ago contain more minute details at > micro level which unfortunately i could see in my childhood but > could not read till date as they are lost and are available only in > few libraries. > > 2. the evidence for ramjanmabhoomi was prepared in a book form in > early 1990s and was submitted to the government of india as well as > the courts and other media. it is not a legal document and is > available in the public. however, soft version of that is not > available. there are few more further publications of VHP which > give further proof of ayodhya. there are many VHP sympathisers who > have created dozens of websites and posted most of this and more > information scanned and posted in those sites. > > 3. sri hari ji was lamenting for ayodhya not finding mention in > historic books and government records and observed how kalidasa > omitted mention of ayodhaya in his book raghuvamsham. to this i > observed that there are MANY historic books starting from > vishnupurana and skandapurana besides the epics mahabhrat and > ramayan and hundreds of medieval classics mentioning lord ram's > ayodya including the book raghuvamsham. hari ji first mentioned > that kalidasa talks about other places in kumarasambhavam but not > ayodhya in raghuvamsham. if it kumarasambhavam, i do not know, but > if it is raghuvamsham, kalidasa made no omission of ayodhya. > > with best wishes and regards > pandit arjun > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arjun ji, > > Thank you for joining this group, where we can sincerely try to > > ponder into the issues in astrology, and hopefully bring out at > least > > some results. Yes, in this effort due to sharing of knowledge, our > > understanding of the subject is sure to improve. We look forward > to > > receive whatever knowledge we can from you. > > About astrology in epic period you wrote: > > > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > > > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > > > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength > > > to the characters. > > Sorry, I couldn't grasp the point. Will you please clarify. > > Especially the part " but their relative strength to the > characters " . > > > > > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > > > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > > > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references > of > > > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > > > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > > > christian invaders. > > Can you provide the material available to us? Is there any legal > > issues involved? If not can you please upload that data in the > files > > section to help further research? > > > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > > > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. > > Oh!! Here many km away from my home in my workplace, I don't have > > Raghuvamsham with me. Yes, but I noted the point, and will take > the > > first instance to note down those historically important slokas. I > > request Chandra Hari to make special note of this - but may be > > probably he may also be aware of it. But yes, it is really a new > info > > for me. Thanks. Dear Arjun ji, if you don't mind, please provide > that > > sloka as well. I am feeling shy, because once you have provided > this > > info, I should have to collect the sloka myself. > > Thanks for the good and informative mail. > > > > " Ohm Sahanavavatu, Sahanoubunaktu.... > > Sahaveeryam karavavahai, Thejasweenamadheenamastu... > > ma vidishavahi...Ohm..Santi..Santi..Santi... " > > > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In , " panditarjun2004 " > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > firstly my appreciation of sreendh ji for creating this > dedicated > > > group to discuss " ancient indian astrology " and look forward to > > > share as little as i know and learn as i much as i can. > > > > > > all the thoughts that came into sri chandra hari's mind had come > to > > > my mind also, rather they come to all knowledge seeking minds. > > > since history, astrology and mythology are all inexplicably > > > intertwined, let me touch them in my limited knowledge. > > > > > > both the epics which are called " itihasa " mahabharat and ramayan > > > give details of planets, stars and their significance in various > > > places not as an astrology lesson but their relative strength to > > the > > > characters. > > > > > > as regards historic proof of ram janmabhoomi at ayodhya is > > > concerned, i have the entire evidence material that VHP has > > > submitted to the Allahabad High Court mentioning the references > of > > > ayodhya and ram janmabhoomi from puranas, to epics to medieval > > > classics besides the evidence from the own records of muslim and > > > christian invaders. > > > > > > kalidasa in his raghuvansham describes ram as the incarnation of > > > lord vishnu and also ayodhya. > > > > > > if we are to find out historical support of these mentions, it > > would > > > be a great exercise and we can contribute with whatever > references > > > we could lay hands on. > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Hari ji, > > > > Thank you for the guidance. > > > > This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based > on > > > > evidence only. > > > > > But if we are looking for truth, we > > > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary > on > > > > > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! > Thanks > > > for > > > > providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have > answers > > to > > > > the other questions put forward by you as well. > > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > And now you have made us think in those lines as well. > Yes, I > > > > agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in > > > > getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even > > > though I > > > > fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the > > > > lessons they give. > > > > We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the > various > > > > issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, > > which > > > > frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a > > > > systematic manner. > > > > " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " > > > > With Love and Regards, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " K Chandra > Hari " > > > > <chandrahari81@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenath, > > > > > > > > > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good > > > > beginning > > > > > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the > > > > international > > > > > web of Jyotisham. > > > > > > > > > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud > thinking...to > > > > > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their > present > > > form > > > > > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and > of > > > one > > > > > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD > or > > > even > > > > > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the > > > questioning > > > > of > > > > > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for > > > truth, > > > > we > > > > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary > on > > > > Gita > > > > > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > > > > > > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India > would > > > have > > > > > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama > instead > > > of > > > > > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare > > the > > > > > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and > > > Krishna? > > > > > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, > > > > Ujjayini, > > > > > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like > > > > Thirumandhamkunnu > > > > > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram > temple > > > at > > > > > Ayodhya? > > > > > > > > > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to > temples > > of > > > > > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at > > > Ayodhya > > > > > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > > > > > > > > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient > > > > temples, > > > > > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not > > > giving > > > > > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the > > > > contrary > > > > > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why > none > > > has > > > > > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > > > > > > > > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > > > > > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare > > the > > > > > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - > why > > > the > > > > > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How > is > > > it > > > > > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is > historical? > > > > > > > > > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. > Without > > > > > weekdays can there be astrology? > > > > > > > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of > > > Mahabharata > > > > or > > > > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was > > not > > > > > known > > > > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > > > > prediction > > > > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram > and > > > > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > > > > planets > > > > > are > > > > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we > > > conclude > > > > > that, > > > > > > in epic literature, > > > > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra > and > > > > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different > > > Nakshatras? > > > > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Dear All, I felt like re-reading some of the previous messages and continuing that thread, since I encountered a new sloka today. In the ancient text 'Jyotisha Karandak' (probably a text in the Jain school of astrology), it is said that- Lagnam cha dakhinavisute suvi assa uttaram ayane Lagnam sai visuvesu panchasu vi dakhina ayane This sloka is in Prakrit. In sanskrit is should be- Lagnam cha dakshina vishuveshwapi asvam uttara ayane Lagnam swati vishuveshu panchaswapi dakshina ayane In this sloka the Nakshatras Aswati and Swati are said to be the 'Lagna' of the equinox!! This probably means that there was a time when Nakshatras where considered similar to Rasi!! Consider it along with the fact that in Epics only Nakshatra chakra and placement of planets in Nakshatra is mentioned! For sure we know that- In Vedic period : Tropical calender + (fixed) Nakshatra chakra was used So if Vedic astrology was Tropical, and if Nakshatra chakra was a gift of Vedic astrology, then is it that Nirayana (Siderial) system based on Rasis is of Non-Vedic origin? Is it that epics depicts the extension of Nakshatra chakra system? Chandra Hari ji says: > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > weekdays can there be astrology? As far as I know, it might be 'Yanjchavalkya Smriti' that mentions week days first. It says - SooryaH Somo MaheeputraH Somaputro BrihaspatiH SukraH sanaischaro rahuH ketuschaite grahaH smrita Meaning, Su, Mo, Ma, Me, Ju, Ve, Sa, Ra and Ke are the Grahas. We can see the planets arranged in the order of Weekdays in this sloka. Is it that week days originated in the period of Smriti only? Or is it that the Non-vedic (or Vedic?) concept of Weekdays got a mentioned in smritis only by the period of Yajchavalkya smriti? By the way, Do you know which is the text that first mentions the name of Rasis (Signs)? I have a cute info. In 'Bodhayana sootra' it is said that- " Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor vasnta " It might be the first mention of signs starting from Aries (Mesha) in available literature. In Yajchavalkya smriti also the signs are mentioned. Which of them is oldest? Who knows!! Just sharing some info. Love, Sreenadh , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Hari ji, > Thank you for the guidance. > This is prime reason I respect you - You always speak based on > evidence only. > > But if we are looking for truth, we > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > > Gita unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > Really that was a new knowledge to me! No. I don't know!! Thanks for > providing that beautiful bit of info. Yes, I don't have answers to > the other questions put forward by you as well. > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > And now you have made us think in those lines as well. Yes, I > agree, It is asking the right questions is the first step in > getting/seeking right answers, and doing true research. Even though I > fail to answer those questions, I will never fail to learn the > lessons they give. > We expect more mails from you that enlighten us on the various > issues in astrology - and shed some light on the dark areas, which > frightens students who want to approach/learn astrology in a > systematic manner. > " Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya.... " > With Love and Regards, > Sreenadh > > , " K Chandra Hari " > <chandrahari81@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenath, > > > > With 20+ members in such a short time you have made a good > beginning > > and hope that you will breath in some fresh air on the > international > > web of Jyotisham. > > > > Astrology in epic period, I am to have some loud thinking...to > > facilitate a detailed discussion - epics took their present form > > across many hundreds of years. They are not of one age and of one > > author. And latest redactions took place as late as 100 AD or even > > during Gupta times. It may look odd to some people the questioning > of > > traditional beliefs about epics. But if we are looking for truth, > we > > must try to know the historical facts that make a commentary on > Gita > > unavailable before the time of Sankaracharya (800 AD). > > > > If the epics and their history of avtars were true India would have > > been strewn all around with temples of Krishna and Rama instead of > > Siva and Sakti. What is the truth that emerges if we compare the > > numbers of Siva and Sakti temples with those of Rama and Krishna? > > There are ancient records about the temples at Kanyakumari, > Ujjayini, > > Kamakhya, Devagiri and about temples of Kerala like > Thirumandhamkunnu > > and others. Why such records are not available about Ram temple at > > Ayodhya? > > > > Kalidasa when he wrote Kumarasambhava has referred to temples of > > Ujjayini and Devagiri. Has he referred to the Ram temple at Ayodhya > > in Raghuvamsam? Can such omission be natural? > > > > Egypt of 2000 BC gives evidence in terms of ruins of ancient > temples, > > palaces and burials but why Hasthinapura and Ayodhya is not giving > > evdience of even hutments in Ayodhya at say 1000 BC? On the > contrary > > cities galore on the east in Harappa and Mohanjadaro. Why none has > > found the ruins of Great Mithila and Lanka? > > > > Now coming back to the epic period - there is no unanimous > > conclusions on the historicity or date of the epics. Compare the > > Acharyaparampara of Vedanta with the Buddhist tradition - why the > > Buddhist tradition is more authentic with more details? How is it > > that Vyasa and Valmiki are mythical and Buddha is historical? > > > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > weekdays can there be astrology? > > > > These are some thoughts that came to my mind. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > > known > > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > > prediction > > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of > planets > > are > > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > > that, > > > in epic literature, > > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > > Please clarify. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Hello, The concept of Lagna seems to have existed during the times of Ramayana. There seems to be some slokas in Ayodhya kanda which mentions Rama to be born in Cancer Lagna. But there is some controversy regarding this. But it has to be accepted that it is more prevalent to recognize the day and time by Stars rather than by Lagna or by sign, either in Ramayan or Mahabharat. We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. Coming to the discussion, before Mahabharat times, there was Abhijit Star also which seems to have gone away from earth at the beginning of the Kaliyuga. The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) and it was much higher in Horizon and this is a scientifically proved phenomenon: Quote: Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is stated that: " Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika (Pliedes) went to " Vana " the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to do, " said Indra. This dialogue shows that when Indra went to Summer Solstice, Vega started falling down. Many scholars have ridiculed this idea of Star Falling; but now it is proved by modern astronomy that it was a true fact that 12,000 years B.C., Vega had really come down to the horizon from the heights of the sky, to become a pole star. Krittikas were at the Summer Solstice between 21,800 and 20,840 years B.C. At this time Dhansishta was at the vernal equinox and hence was given the first place in the Nakshatras. From this period, the sages noticed the gradual fall of Abhijit. Falling steadily, it is assumed the position of the Celestial Pole at 12,000 B.C., when Indra met Skanda to think on the problem of time-reckoning. The story shows that the Indian sages were observing the stars and constellations at least from 23,000 years B.C. Unquote Hope this helps, Kishore patnaik , " Sreenadh " <sreelid wrote: > > Dear All, > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not known > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based prediction > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets are > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude that, > in epic literature, > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > Please clarify. > Love, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Dear Kishore ji, Rama was born in Punarvasu Nakshatra. But is there any authentic statement that he was born in Karkata Lagna? Please provide the relevant sloka from Vatmeeki Ramayana. ==> We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. <== I disagree. Stars (Taras) and Nakshatras (Stellar divisions = an Area of sky covering 13 deg 20 min approx) was considered differently even from Vedic period. Rigveda gives ample proof for this. Neither the word "Nakshatra" nor the word "Rasi" indicate constellations, but they are technical terms for specific angular areas of ecliptic or moon path. It was and is better to consider this "areas of sky" and "constellations" differently once this systematization happened. For Nakshatras it happened in Vedic period itself. For Rasi it happened (as per available proof) in the period of Yajchavalkya smiri and Boudhayans soolbasutra. (yap, it could have been much earlier as well). So now we have no right to mix and match the term constellations with neither Nakshatras nor Rasis. ==> > The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) <== Abhijit and Vega are the same?! I doubt. And we need the help of someone like Chandrahari who knows astronomy to clarify this doubt. I too have heard the story of Vega. It is a star near Pole, near to Saptarshas (7 stars, Great bear constellation). Abhijit is a Star near to moon path. Both are the same?! I wonder. But yap, I am not sure, needs clarification. ==> Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is stated that:"Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika (Pliedes) went to "Vana" the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to do," said Indra. <== Once in this forum I have stated that - "once Abhijit was the base of Nakshatra division based on Moon path. Only when Nakshatra division of Moon path is based on Abhijit all the Yoga taras falls with in there respective divisions. But later this was corrected mathematically and the Nakshatra divisions got associated with ecliptic". It is a lesson I learned form Chandrahari ji. Can you provide the Sanskrit quote (in Sanskrit itself), it could be a supportive evidence. May be it could also clarify the doubt on Vega and Abhijit are the same or not. I have heard about the study on fall of Vega, and I think somewhere I have read an article by Pandit ji (Dr. Ketkar) on the same as well. Dear Panditji can you elaborate on the same. Love, Sreenadh kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: Hello, The concept of Lagna seems to have existed during the times of Ramayana. There seems to be some slokas in Ayodhya kanda which mentions Rama to be born in Cancer Lagna. But there is some controversy regarding this. But it has to be accepted that it is more prevalent to recognize the day and time by Stars rather than by Lagna or by sign, either in Ramayan or Mahabharat. We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. Coming to the discussion, before Mahabharat times, there was Abhijit Star also which seems to have gone away from earth at the beginning of the Kaliyuga. The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) and it was much higher in Horizon and this is a scientifically proved phenomenon:Quote:Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is stated that:"Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika (Pliedes) went to "Vana" the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to do," said Indra.This dialogue shows that when Indra went to Summer Solstice, Vega started falling down. Many scholars have ridiculed this idea of Star Falling; but now it is proved by modern astronomy that it was a true fact that 12,000 years B.C., Vega had really come down to the horizon from the heights of the sky, to become a pole star.Krittikas were at the Summer Solstice between 21,800 and 20,840 years B.C. At this time Dhansishta was at the vernal equinox and hence was given the first place in the Nakshatras. From this period, the sages noticed the gradual fall of Abhijit. Falling steadily, it is assumed the position of the Celestial Pole at 12,000 B.C., when Indra met Skanda to think on the problem of time-reckoning. The story shows that the Indian sages were observing the stars and constellations at least from 23,000 years B.C.UnquoteHope this helps, Kishore patnaik , "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote:>> Dear All,> The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata or > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not known > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based prediction > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets are > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude that, > in epic literature,> Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and> Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras?> It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion?> Please clarify.> Love,> Sreenadh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 dear friends shivapuran mentions lord chandra (male) marrying the 27 stars, daughters of daksha, and neglecting all the 26 wives with his obsession towards rohini. then daksha curses moon to suffer from kshaya or loss of power/vitality (AIDS?). then chandra does penance at somnath jyotirlinga after which lord shiva blesses him to regain his full energy for 14 days even as losing it fully for the preceding 14 days. since then moon started waning and waxing for 14 days. since itihasas, vedas, mytholgies are all inexplicably intertwined, this story must have happened long before the king chandra and his 27 wives became solid rock type stars. when chandra was a king and could have had 27 wives, why he is treated as a female planet. wish the more learnt members in the group, especially sreenadhji, throw some more light on this authentic shivapuran story. with best wishes pandit arjun , sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kishore ji, > Rama was born in Punarvasu Nakshatra. But is there any authentic statement that he was born in Karkata Lagna? Please provide the relevant sloka from Vatmeeki Ramayana. > ==> > We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer > to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to > constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. > <== > I disagree. Stars (Taras) and Nakshatras (Stellar divisions = an Area of sky covering 13 deg 20 min approx) was considered differently even from Vedic period. Rigveda gives ample proof for this. > Neither the word " Nakshatra " nor the word " Rasi " indicate constellations, but they are technical terms for specific angular areas of ecliptic or moon path. It was and is better to consider this " areas of sky " and " constellations " differently once this systematization happened. For Nakshatras it happened in Vedic period itself. For Rasi it happened (as per available proof) in the period of Yajchavalkya smiri and Boudhayans soolbasutra. (yap, it could have been much earlier as well). So now we have no right to mix and match the term constellations with neither Nakshatras nor Rasis. > ==> > > The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) > <== > Abhijit and Vega are the same?! I doubt. And we need the help of someone like Chandrahari who knows astronomy to clarify this doubt. I too have heard the story of Vega. It is a star near Pole, near to Saptarshas (7 stars, Great bear constellation). Abhijit is a Star near to moon path. Both are the same?! I wonder. But yap, I am not sure, needs clarification. > ==> > Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, > Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is > stated that: > > " Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika > (Pliedes) went to " Vana " the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. > Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time > Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. > Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to > do, " said Indra. > <== > Once in this forum I have stated that - " once Abhijit was the base of Nakshatra division based on Moon path. Only when Nakshatra division of Moon path is based on Abhijit all the Yoga taras falls with in there respective divisions. But later this was corrected mathematically and the Nakshatra divisions got associated with ecliptic " . It is a lesson I learned form Chandrahari ji. Can you provide the Sanskrit quote (in Sanskrit itself), it could be a supportive evidence. May be it could also clarify the doubt on Vega and Abhijit are the same or not. > > I have heard about the study on fall of Vega, and I think somewhere I have read an article by Pandit ji (Dr. Ketkar) on the same as well. Dear Panditji can you elaborate on the same. > > Love, > Sreenadh > > > kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: > Hello, > > The concept of Lagna seems to have existed during the times of > Ramayana. There seems to be some slokas in Ayodhya kanda which > mentions Rama to be born in Cancer Lagna. But there is some > controversy regarding this. > > But it has to be accepted that it is more prevalent to recognize the > day and time by Stars rather than by Lagna or by sign, either in > Ramayan or Mahabharat. > > We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer > to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to > constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. > > Coming to the discussion, before Mahabharat times, there was Abhijit > Star also which seems to have gone away from earth at the beginning > of the Kaliyuga. > > The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) and it was > much higher in Horizon and this is a scientifically proved > phenomenon: > > Quote: > > Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, > Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is > stated that: > > " Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika > (Pliedes) went to " Vana " the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. > Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time > Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. > Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to > do, " said Indra. > > This dialogue shows that when Indra went to Summer Solstice, Vega > started falling down. Many scholars have ridiculed this idea of Star > Falling; but now it is proved by modern astronomy that it was a true > fact that 12,000 years B.C., Vega had really come down to the > horizon from the heights of the sky, to become a pole star. > > Krittikas were at the Summer Solstice between 21,800 and 20,840 > years B.C. At this time Dhansishta was at the vernal equinox and > hence was given the first place in the Nakshatras. From this period, > the sages noticed the gradual fall of Abhijit. Falling steadily, it > is assumed the position of the Celestial Pole at 12,000 B.C., when > Indra met Skanda to think on the problem of time-reckoning. The > story shows that the Indian sages were observing the stars and > constellations at least from 23,000 years B.C. > > > Unquote > > > Hope this helps, > > Kishore patnaik > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreelid@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > known > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > prediction > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets > are > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > that, > > in epic literature, > > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and > > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras? > > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion? > > Please clarify. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, ==> > when chandra was a king and could have had 27 wives, why he is > treated as a female planet.<== That is why I used to say - "it is wrong to mix-up Puranas and astrology". * Astrology deals with systematic study of patterns of time and thus destiny. * Puranas are trying to present History in a different mould. (Making it a long story, and mixing with many subjects, and mixing with many allegoric stories aimed at ethics or the like etc etc) Puranas are literary works that try to preserve "History". So it would be better useful for the Historians, but not for astrologers.Of course we have some minimum use with Puranas, but that is not in searching the logic behind some basic concepts. If we get trapped in that vast forest of stories then astrology would misinterpreted and lost in the path. Why Mo was treated a Female planet? It is better to search for the answer in the foundation concepts of astrology. I know you will come out with many logics that tell us why Mo was treated as a female planet based on - * Male/Female classification of signs * Exaltation/Debilitation, Moolatrikona etc. * Earth-Water-Fire-Air-Sky classification of signs * Prime significance allotted to the planets etc Love, Sreenadh panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: dear friendsshivapuran mentions lord chandra (male) marrying the 27 stars, daughters of daksha, and neglecting all the 26 wives with his obsession towards rohini. then daksha curses moon to suffer from kshaya or loss of power/vitality (AIDS?). then chandra does penance at somnath jyotirlinga after which lord shiva blesses him to regain his full energy for 14 days even as losing it fully for the preceding 14 days. since then moon started waning and waxing for 14 days.since itihasas, vedas, mytholgies are all inexplicably intertwined, this story must have happened long before the king chandra and his 27 wives became solid rock type stars.when chandra was a king and could have had 27 wives, why he is treated as a female planet.wish the more learnt members in the group, especially sreenadhji, throw some more light on this authentic shivapuran story.with best wishespandit arjun , sree nadh <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Kishore ji,> Rama was born in Punarvasu Nakshatra. But is there any authentic statement that he was born in Karkata Lagna? Please provide the relevant sloka from Vatmeeki Ramayana.> ==>> We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer > to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to > constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. > <==> I disagree. Stars (Taras) and Nakshatras (Stellar divisions = an Area of sky covering 13 deg 20 min approx) was considered differently even from Vedic period. Rigveda gives ample proof for this. > Neither the word "Nakshatra" nor the word "Rasi" indicate constellations, but they are technical terms for specific angular areas of ecliptic or moon path. It was and is better to consider this "areas of sky" and "constellations" differently once this systematization happened. For Nakshatras it happened in Vedic period itself. For Rasi it happened (as per available proof) in the period of Yajchavalkya smiri and Boudhayans soolbasutra. (yap, it could have been much earlier as well). So now we have no right to mix and match the term constellations with neither Nakshatras nor Rasis.> ==>> > The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?)> <==> Abhijit and Vega are the same?! I doubt. And we need the help of someone like Chandrahari who knows astronomy to clarify this doubt. I too have heard the story of Vega. It is a star near Pole, near to Saptarshas (7 stars, Great bear constellation). Abhijit is a Star near to moon path. Both are the same?! I wonder. But yap, I am not sure, needs clarification. > ==>> Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, > Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is > stated that:> > "Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika > (Pliedes) went to "Vana" the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. > Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time > Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. > Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to > do," said Indra.> <==> Once in this forum I have stated that - "once Abhijit was the base of Nakshatra division based on Moon path. Only when Nakshatra division of Moon path is based on Abhijit all the Yoga taras falls with in there respective divisions. But later this was corrected mathematically and the Nakshatra divisions got associated with ecliptic". It is a lesson I learned form Chandrahari ji. Can you provide the Sanskrit quote (in Sanskrit itself), it could be a supportive evidence. May be it could also clarify the doubt on Vega and Abhijit are the same or not.> > I have heard about the study on fall of Vega, and I think somewhere I have read an article by Pandit ji (Dr. Ketkar) on the same as well. Dear Panditji can you elaborate on the same.> > Love,> Sreenadh> > > kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote:> Hello, > > The concept of Lagna seems to have existed during the times of > Ramayana. There seems to be some slokas in Ayodhya kanda which > mentions Rama to be born in Cancer Lagna. But there is some > controversy regarding this. > > But it has to be accepted that it is more prevalent to recognize the > day and time by Stars rather than by Lagna or by sign, either in > Ramayan or Mahabharat. > > We should remember that both the concepts of Stars and signs refer > to the same zodiac and signs as well as stars refer to > constellations of stars only-albeit different set of them. > > Coming to the discussion, before Mahabharat times, there was Abhijit > Star also which seems to have gone away from earth at the beginning > of the Kaliyuga. > > The pole star also was earlier called Vega star(Abhijit?) and it was > much higher in Horizon and this is a scientifically proved > phenomenon:> > Quote:> > Maharshi Vyas has recorded in Mahabharat, Vana Parva (Chap.230, > Verses 8-11), a dialoge between Indra and Skanda where-in it is > stated that:> > "Contesting against Abhijit (Vega), the constellation Krittika > (Pliedes) went to "Vana" the Summer Solstice to heat the summer. > Then the star Abhijit slipped down in the sky. At that time > Dhanishta was given the first place in the list of Nakshatras. > Rohini was also the first some time back. Now you decide what to > do," said Indra.> > This dialogue shows that when Indra went to Summer Solstice, Vega > started falling down. Many scholars have ridiculed this idea of Star > Falling; but now it is proved by modern astronomy that it was a true > fact that 12,000 years B.C., Vega had really come down to the > horizon from the heights of the sky, to become a pole star.> > Krittikas were at the Summer Solstice between 21,800 and 20,840 > years B.C. At this time Dhansishta was at the vernal equinox and > hence was given the first place in the Nakshatras. From this period, > the sages noticed the gradual fall of Abhijit. Falling steadily, it > is assumed the position of the Celestial Pole at 12,000 B.C., when > Indra met Skanda to think on the problem of time-reckoning. The > story shows that the Indian sages were observing the stars and > constellations at least from 23,000 years B.C.> > > Unquote> > > Hope this helps, > > Kishore patnaik > > > --- In , "Sreenadh" > <sreelid@> wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > The concept of Rasi (Sign) existed in the period of Mahabharata > or > > not? Does anybody have a proof? If the concept of Rasi was not > known > > at that time, should we conclude that only Nakshatra based > prediction > > system (stellar astrology) - Probably a Nakshatra Cakram and > > predictions based on that - only existed in that period? > > In that case since combination of planets and Drishti of planets > are > > mentioned in Epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) should we conclude > that, > > in epic literature,> > Combination means combination of planets in a Nakshatra and> > Drishti means Drishti of planets placed in different Nakshatras?> > It sounds absurd but seems logical! What is your opinion?> > Please clarify.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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