Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dear Krishna ji, thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other short cuts r not required or possible Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times Prashant ________________________________ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM Re: Complete Guidance Dear Dhirendra Ji, Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dear Members, I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless. Why the ammusement?. It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdatrayeNa. shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote: > > Dear Krishna ji, > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > short cuts r not required or possible > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > Prashant ________________________________ > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > Re: Complete Guidance > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dear friends, Any type of boasting and arrogance is foolish and deplorable. Professor Krishnamurthy also learnt with life time efforts from Parashar, Varahmitra, Kalidasa and other greats -- Basics taken from great classics and developed further with tireless efforts. Astrolgy systems are like different type of watches digital, mechanical, sundials, sandfunnels and so on. These indicate time. Astrology indicates fate. No astrology system can be superior or inferior, any forcast by any system can fail or may come true. We should keep on learing and refining. With good wishes. Inder , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote: > > Dear Krishna ji, > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > short cuts r not required or possible > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > Prashant ________________________________ > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > Re: Complete Guidance > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Inder Ji, Very advice and long live.Essential to keep learning as the time keeps ticking and times chane regards Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) --- On Sun, 8/30/09, indervohra2001 <indervohra2001 wrote: indervohra2001 <indervohra2001 Re: Complete Guidance-kp Sunday, August 30, 2009, 7:47 AM Dear friends, Any type of boasting and arrogance is foolish and deplorable. Professor Krishnamurthy also learnt with life time efforts from Parashar, Varahmitra, Kalidasa and other greats -- Basics taken from great classics and developed further with tireless efforts. Astrolgy systems are like different type of watches digital, mechanical, sundials, sandfunnels and so on. These indicate time. Astrology indicates fate. No astrology system can be superior or inferior, any forcast by any system can fail or may come true. We should keep on learing and refining. With good wishes. Inder , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ...> wrote: > > Dear Krishna ji, > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > short cuts r not required or possible > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > Prashant ____________ _________ _________ __ > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@. ..> > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > Re: Complete Guidance > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dear Suresh ji, a good post in many ways esp the concluding part it is always easy to choose something modern or faster, but what tradition has laid for us is what these deviations have and not lasted more than a few ppl. i know many who also use ramans ayanamsa in KP apart from the new KP ayanamsa followers or sub-sub-s's creators etc. in our ICAS meetings we had regular group discussions on 4 saturdays a month still happens but am not participating, when i used to did see many such varities even inKP following too traditional systesm do offer a long term learning, and long term adaptation to their concepts, spirit is essential rest time will give the appropriate insertions prashant I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:44:15 PM Re: Complete Guidance-kp Dear Members, I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless. Why the ammusement?. It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdat rayeNa. shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ..> wrote: > > Dear Krishna ji, > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > short cuts r not required or possible > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > Prashant ____________ _________ _________ __ > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@. ..> > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > Re: Complete Guidance > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dear Prashant Ji, There is absolutely no doubt that traditional astrology has lot to offer than any other systems. Even in this, it is not easy to master every aspect of life. I have many astrologers, some are very good at analysis on business matters, some about medical problem and some very profficient in Ahstamangala & deva prasna but lack in business area. One cannot say that they are not good. Just like we have specialists in medical field, in astrology we find masters in certain areas. Do doubt it is vast subject. I have also seen some quir works like rekha sashtra(very old) and kheda sashtra apart from lalkitab. If you go to interior mountain villages, you will find a different kind of astrology, primitive methods what we call as " Naadan " or native astrology, but found some of them very good. Palmistry & lakshna (marks on the body) is also part of astrology but branched out like others. All these have their own limitations. But the limitations in traditional system depends on our own learning and understanding. Yet just like sanskrit is the mother of languages, traditional astrology remains the mother of all other systems. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote: > > Dear Suresh ji, > > a good post in many ways esp the concluding part it is always easy to choose something modern or faster, but what tradition has laid for us is what these deviations have and not lasted more than a few ppl. i know many who also use ramans ayanamsa in KP apart from the new KP ayanamsa followers or sub-sub-s's creators etc. > > in our ICAS meetings we had regular group discussions on 4 saturdays a month still happens but am not participating, when i used to did see many such varities even inKP following too > traditional systesm do offer a long term learning, and long term adaptation to their concepts, spirit is essential rest time will give the appropriate insertions > > prashant > > I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 > > > > > > ________________________________ > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:44:15 PM > Re: Complete Guidance-kp > > > Dear Members, > > I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. > > However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless. > > Why the ammusement?. > > It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. > > None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. > > If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. > > But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. > > The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. > > Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. > > An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: > > udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande > yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdat rayeNa. > shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat > nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. > Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. > > Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. > > From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. > > From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. > > In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. > > It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. > > The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. > > It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. > > In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. > > Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > > > short cuts r not required or possible > > > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@ ..> > > > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > > Re: Complete Guidance > > > > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Dear Sirs, True jyotish in traditional methods varies in many way from region to region.On thing v firmly have conviction,that depending on our areas of interest v can devote time and work on a specific field/area Like if Iam asked to suggest,i would Prashan Sastra as the life time reading have little meaning except an over all assessement of jatakam. Advantage of Prashan as mentioned in one of these mails Mr Raghunadha rao stated efficacy of Prashna.I also believed that Prashna is itself a tool instrument to try and test for confirmation of many things. Internet media and understanding jyotish requirements made issue faster and inconsistent.Solutions for immediate needs gain priority over other issues..Prashna covers several aspects of life,consideration for this approach is preferreble. Even considering Tazik/Varshapahal approches,we are limiting by concentrating for say 12 months period. Once we are having confidence on theory aspects envisaged in Classicals,it is for us to apply these resources for evaluation and inferences. Only area very loose appears to remedial aspects as mantra and tantra need highly developed skills as it goes beyond one's area. we have seen many people seeking for one or other reasons (believe) in gems and any suggestion for gems will be also difficult issue for many reasons beyond our control. Remedial Aspects of jyotish form the basics,sometimes it seems v r not on firm foot in this area Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) --- On Sun, 8/30/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag wrote: sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag Re: Complete Guidance-kp Sunday, August 30, 2009, 3:50 PM Dear Prashant Ji, There is absolutely no doubt that traditional astrology has lot to offer than any other systems. Even in this, it is not easy to master every aspect of life. I have many astrologers, some are very good at analysis on business matters, some about medical problem and some very profficient in Ahstamangala & deva prasna but lack in business area. One cannot say that they are not good. Just like we have specialists in medical field, in astrology we find masters in certain areas. Do doubt it is vast subject. I have also seen some quir works like rekha sashtra(very old) and kheda sashtra apart from lalkitab. If you go to interior mountain villages, you will find a different kind of astrology, primitive methods what we call as " Naadan " or native astrology, but found some of them very good. Palmistry & lakshna (marks on the body) is also part of astrology but branched out like others. All these have their own limitations. But the limitations in traditional system depends on our own learning and understanding. Yet just like sanskrit is the mother of languages, traditional astrology remains the mother of all other systems. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ...> wrote: > > Dear Suresh ji, > > a good post in many ways esp the concluding part it is always easy to choose something modern or faster, but what tradition has laid for us is what these deviations have and not lasted more than a few ppl. i know many who also use ramans ayanamsa in KP apart from the new KP ayanamsa followers or sub-sub-s's creators etc. > > in our ICAS meetings we had regular group discussions on 4 saturdays a month still happens but am not participating, when i used to did see many such varities even inKP following too > traditional systesm do offer a long term learning, and long term adaptation to their concepts, spirit is essential rest time will give the appropriate insertions > > prashant > > I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...> > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:44:15 PM > Re: Complete Guidance-kp > > > Dear Members, > > I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. > > However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless.. > > Why the ammusement?. > > It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. > > None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. > > If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. > > But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. > > The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. > > Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable.. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. > > An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: > > udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande > yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdat rayeNa. > shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat > nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. > Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. > > Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. > > From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. > > From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. > > In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. > > It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. > > The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. > > It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. > > In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. > > Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > > > short cuts r not required or possible > > > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@ ..> > > > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > > Re: Complete Guidance > > > > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Dear Krishna Ji, What you said about Prashna & Jataka is 100% correct. It is the method to evaluate a situation. It is my practice to check atleast Udaya Lagna and current position simultaneously when checking their chart also. If the circumstances requires I conduct a full prasna with cowries, particularly if I find no " Daivadeena " . But I prefer to check only Horoscope for queries from mails or posts, since we it would be difficult to know when the posting was done. In complicated cases, when prashna is conducted with cowries, we even take " Ozhivu " Rasi for the remedies to check if they will we be enough - that is to confirm if the remedies thought of will lead to expected results. In some cases, we even check who should conduct the remedial rituals. Prashna thus can be as simple as checking the udaya lagna to very elaborate procedure depending on circumstanses. There are also other simple but effect methods. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 Monday, August 31, 2009 8:16:37 AM Re: Complete Guidance-kp Dear Sirs, True jyotish in traditional methods varies in many way from region to region.On thing v firmly have conviction,that depending on our areas of interest v can devote time and work on a specific field/area Like if Iam asked to suggest,i would Prashan Sastra as the life time reading have little meaning except an over all assessement of jatakam. Advantage of Prashan as mentioned in one of these mails Mr Raghunadha rao stated efficacy of Prashna.I also believed that Prashna is itself a tool instrument to try and test for confirmation of many things. Internet media and understanding jyotish requirements made issue faster and inconsistent. Solutions for immediate needs gain priority over other issues..Prashna covers several aspects of life,consideration for this approach is preferreble. Even considering Tazik/Varshapahal approches,we are limiting by concentrating for say 12 months period. Once we are having confidence on theory aspects envisaged in Classicals,it is for us to apply these resources for evaluation and inferences. Only area very loose appears to remedial aspects as mantra and tantra need highly developed skills as it goes beyond one's area. we have seen many people seeking for one or other reasons (believe) in gems and any suggestion for gems will be also difficult issue for many reasons beyond our control. Remedial Aspects of jyotish form the basics,sometimes it seems v r not on firm foot in this area Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) --- On Sun, 8/30/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > Re: Complete Guidance-kp Sunday, August 30, 2009, 3:50 PM Dear Prashant Ji, There is absolutely no doubt that traditional astrology has lot to offer than any other systems. Even in this, it is not easy to master every aspect of life. I have many astrologers, some are very good at analysis on business matters, some about medical problem and some very profficient in Ahstamangala & deva prasna but lack in business area. One cannot say that they are not good. Just like we have specialists in medical field, in astrology we find masters in certain areas. Do doubt it is vast subject. I have also seen some quir works like rekha sashtra(very old) and kheda sashtra apart from lalkitab. If you go to interior mountain villages, you will find a different kind of astrology, primitive methods what we call as " Naadan " or native astrology, but found some of them very good. Palmistry & lakshna (marks on the body) is also part of astrology but branched out like others. All these have their own limitations. But the limitations in traditional system depends on our own learning and understanding. Yet just like sanskrit is the mother of languages, traditional astrology remains the mother of all other systems. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ...> wrote: > > Dear Suresh ji, > > a good post in many ways esp the concluding part it is always easy to choose something modern or faster, but what tradition has laid for us is what these deviations have and not lasted more than a few ppl. i know many who also use ramans ayanamsa in KP apart from the new KP ayanamsa followers or sub-sub-s's creators etc. > > in our ICAS meetings we had regular group discussions on 4 saturdays a month still happens but am not participating, when i used to did see many such varities even inKP following too > traditional systesm do offer a long term learning, and long term adaptation to their concepts, spirit is essential rest time will give the appropriate insertions > > prashant > > I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...> > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:44:15 PM > Re: Complete Guidance-kp > > > Dear Members, > > I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. > > However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless.. > > Why the ammusement?. > > It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. > > None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. > > If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. > > But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. > > The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. > > Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable.. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. > > An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: > > udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande > yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdat rayeNa. > shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat > nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. > Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. > > Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. > > From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. > > From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. > > In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. > > It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. > > The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. > > It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. > > In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. > > Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > > > short cuts r not required or possible > > > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@ ..> > > > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > > Re: Complete Guidance > > > > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Dear Krishna ji, Suresh ji, it is without any doubt that the time tested, timeless works of our rishies is unbeatable, time consuming in learning, assimilating, prefecting them so all the short cuts came in to make them look as it it is childs play, the creators of sush systems surely had vaak sidhi or gift of the gab or even used Kshudra upasana methods. but this not the case of the stundents of such subjects and we don't mean to say a great father's son/s have to be as great, what we can say is at least they have to be successful in the same filed as well, if they cant really creat any other improvementsd [assuming it is too perfect] why has so many new comers introduced new KP ayanamsa, sub-subs then, and KAS, SYSTEMS APPROACH and many more systems come each region has its unique identity and the extent fo sanskrit assimilation or mix inthe has given more works say Telugu, Malayalam have v good works next to sanskrit, not the rest of the languages, to some extent tamil too has at leastof late many new translators have come in. they may have their own local strains in them but sanskrit based knowledge was always a higher stream next was telugu that is why we find many music composers from Kerala, tamil regions in the past composed in telugu to be noticed, now the political dictates r such that one has to re-do all non tamil works to tamil, be it Tyagaraja or annamacharya's, Mutthuswami dixitar, Purundara dasa songs Preashant ________________________________ Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag Monday, August 31, 2009 10:34:19 AM Re: Complete Guidance-kp Dear Krishna Ji, What you said about Prashna & Jataka is 100% correct. It is the method to evaluate a situation. It is my practice to check atleast Udaya Lagna and current position simultaneously when checking their chart also. If the circumstances requires I conduct a full prasna with cowries, particularly if I find no " Daivadeena " . But I prefer to check only Horoscope for queries from mails or posts, since we it would be difficult to know when the posting was done. In complicated cases, when prashna is conducted with cowries, we even take " Ozhivu " Rasi for the remedies to check if they will we be enough - that is to confirm if the remedies thought of will lead to expected results. In some cases, we even check who should conduct the remedial rituals. Prashna thus can be as simple as checking the udaya lagna to very elaborate procedure depending on circumstanses. There are also other simple but effect methods. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Monday, August 31, 2009 8:16:37 AM Re: Complete Guidance-kp Dear Sirs, True jyotish in traditional methods varies in many way from region to region.On thing v firmly have conviction,that depending on our areas of interest v can devote time and work on a specific field/area Like if Iam asked to suggest,i would Prashan Sastra as the life time reading have little meaning except an over all assessement of jatakam. Advantage of Prashan as mentioned in one of these mails Mr Raghunadha rao stated efficacy of Prashna.I also believed that Prashna is itself a tool instrument to try and test for confirmation of many things. Internet media and understanding jyotish requirements made issue faster and inconsistent. Solutions for immediate needs gain priority over other issues..Prashna covers several aspects of life,consideration for this approach is preferreble. Even considering Tazik/Varshapahal approches,we are limiting by concentrating for say 12 months period. Once we are having confidence on theory aspects envisaged in Classicals,it is for us to apply these resources for evaluation and inferences. Only area very loose appears to remedial aspects as mantra and tantra need highly developed skills as it goes beyond one's area. we have seen many people seeking for one or other reasons (believe) in gems and any suggestion for gems will be also difficult issue for many reasons beyond our control. Remedial Aspects of jyotish form the basics,sometimes it seems v r not on firm foot in this area Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) --- On Sun, 8/30/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > Re: Complete Guidance-kp Sunday, August 30, 2009, 3:50 PM Dear Prashant Ji, There is absolutely no doubt that traditional astrology has lot to offer than any other systems. Even in this, it is not easy to master every aspect of life. I have many astrologers, some are very good at analysis on business matters, some about medical problem and some very profficient in Ahstamangala & deva prasna but lack in business area. One cannot say that they are not good. Just like we have specialists in medical field, in astrology we find masters in certain areas. Do doubt it is vast subject. I have also seen some quir works like rekha sashtra(very old) and kheda sashtra apart from lalkitab. If you go to interior mountain villages, you will find a different kind of astrology, primitive methods what we call as " Naadan " or native astrology, but found some of them very good. Palmistry & lakshna (marks on the body) is also part of astrology but branched out like others. All these have their own limitations. But the limitations in traditional system depends on our own learning and understanding. Yet just like sanskrit is the mother of languages, traditional astrology remains the mother of all other systems. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ...> wrote: > > Dear Suresh ji, > > a good post in many ways esp the concluding part it is always easy to choose something modern or faster, but what tradition has laid for us is what these deviations have and not lasted more than a few ppl. i know many who also use ramans ayanamsa in KP apart from the new KP ayanamsa followers or sub-sub-s's creators etc. > > in our ICAS meetings we had regular group discussions on 4 saturdays a month still happens but am not participating, when i used to did see many such varities even inKP following too > traditional systesm do offer a long term learning, and long term adaptation to their concepts, spirit is essential rest time will give the appropriate insertions > > prashant > > I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...> > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:44:15 PM > Re: Complete Guidance-kp > > > Dear Members, > > I was reading these posts with an amusement and frankly did not know how to respond without injuring the feelings of members, knowing very well that all of them are doing great service without much benefits for themselvs. > > However, we come across tall claims from some, not only here but also in other forums about the efficasy or perfection of their systems which as thinkers, if we spend some time, should reveal that they are utterly basesless.. > > Why the ammusement?. > > It is simple, all these systems are part and parcel of the vast science which we call it as veda or agama or smriti or sruti etc. > > None can claim to be masters also, whether it krishna Murthi or B.V.Raman or latest K.N.Rao, no one singularly can be called a master of this vast science. However, whatever they have understood and given back to the world is more important than branding them as " The Greatest Astrologers " of the world. > > If we take the traditional methods, there are only two, that is Tajik system and the other, what now is generaly called as vedic system. The third an offshoot is the present KP system. > > But if we analyse these, All the three are included in the main system itself and they are not seperate systems at all. > > The KP claims to be stellar based. What is then Muhurthas?. Muhurtha is part & parcel of Astrology and we know it is mostly based on stellar system. Today, Muhurtha is known only as a system for knowing the auspicious time and is mostly handled by priests. Even modern astrologers new little about Muhurthas and they use muhurthas provided in the panchanga. Little do they know the process of computing the muhurthas provided in the panchangas. Another proof that stellar or nakshtra based system is included is the complete system, is the Brihad Samhitha of Varaha Mihira Acharya. KP system is only a expansion of a small factor in the whole system. > > Tajik sytem is based on the planetary motion and we shall find that traditional astrology uses motion as base wherever it is required and applicable.. You shall find many Verses or similarities of tajik words in Yavana Jataka while Yavana Jataka is also a part of Traditional Astrology. Take the word Sunabha And Anabha Yoga. Yavana calls it Sunapha & Anapha yoga. This is similar to Esrapha, Manahoo etc. > > An example of Planetary Motion used by Varaha Mihira: > > udayati mridubhaaMshe saptamaste cha mande > yadi bhavati niShekassuutirabdat rayeNa. > shashini tu vidhirevaM dwaadashaabdaiH prakuryaat > nigaditamiha chindyaM suutikaalepi yuktyaa.. > Meaning: If the Nisheka occures when Udaya & navamsa is Makara or Kumbha & Saturn is in the 7th, it shall take 3 years for birth and if the lagna & navamsa is Karkata and Moon in Saturn house shall take 12 years birth. > > Now since Moon & Saturn are mention, this verse really relates to Makara & Karkataka more than Kumbha & Simha included. This verse has generally been branded a yoga by all the so called masters. BUT if you look closely, Saturn is the slowest moving planet and Moon in the fastest. A slow planet in the sign of fast moving planet - 3 years and fast movng planet in the sign of slow moving planet - 12 years. Think these terms and it strike you that varaha Mishira was actually refering to planetory motions and a base for determining the timing of events. The Birth refered to, can be anything right from birth of the child to fullfillment or completion of a project - so the veres can be used in other aspects also- and not just birth of a child. After it is absurd to think that it shall take 3 or 12 years for the birth to occur after conceiving- Varaha Mihira can't such a fool. > > From the above it is easy to understand no system is stand alone and singularly perfect than the others. Each has got its own merrits & demerits and uses depending on circumstances. > > From what I have understood about KP system, it might have some practical uses in certain areas and so also Tajik system but both fail miserably when it comes to real usage of astrology - finding what is wrong particularly related with the karma and past and the remedies required to possibly correct them. An as far as prediction is concerned, members personaly nows the efficasy of the traditional system. > > In Kerala, a traditional & serious student starts with panchanga, Brihad Jataka Padathy (A different version of Brihd Hora), moves over over to Prasna Marga , Brihad Jataka, Krishneeya & Muhurtha. They never refer works of others even like B.V.Raman or K.N.Rao or any other. It is purely Classical works. If they are inclined, they further looks at Parasara, yavana. mansagari etc. Prasna Marga includes theories from BPHS & yavana etc also. > > It is only those who, that have not spend time to learn traditional astrology or those who did not had proper guidence claim that traditional astrology is inferior to KP or Tajik etc. > > The matter would have been much diplomatic if the said theory about gems etc are presented according to KP system & other methods and a healthy discussion is initiated to explore various methods and to establish what would be beneficial to the native. > > It would be appropriate to remember the story of Skanda - The lord of Nakshtras - who after predicting that his father, the great lord Mahadeva would have live as begger was cursed that his astroloy will only be half truth. > > In fact Lord Mahadev was not cursing Skanda, BUT was advicing that Astrology and predictions or analysis would be fully correct without taking into consideration other factors or astronomical importance. > > Perhaps that was greatest advice of all. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > , Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > thanks for this supportive mail, may be both of us were doing it same time by a few min apaprt. > > > > normally whenever such posts by KP fanatics came i had replied and got stuck with a lot of abuses in 2 or 3 groups, actually my differences with a particular member came from this alone by quoting ramans views but got rebuked as if i was targeting KP, we know it is also another system like systems approach, KAS, etc but no one has ever said that they r the best and reduced the past contributions of the dyons, rishies of astrology to dust. > > > > [my differences with that memberhave been resolved and r normal friends now]. > > > > and the arragonce that KP groups treat members be it their own or others is something , instead of really feeling a bit stronger [by their subject] they are weak, mentally and highly insecure. so probably get provoked and keep abusing one another within their groups i was part of 2 KP groups felt so sick by their quarrels, cliams i quit them. > > > > NO METHOD CAN BEAT THE WORKS OF OUR RISHIES who lived, practiced simple living, v modest, learned, humble people unlike modern men who have to lead a commercial life in someway or other > > > > short cuts r not required or possible > > > > Jyotishya is not a subject for accuracy but to cover the concerns, troubles , course of lives of the person seeking help, guidence in good or bad times, > > > > this can give them some direction to their life, not a super sttructure, each one has to build their mental strenght to shape their lives astrology is just a means. to do that. > > > > as life is Karma driven no one can ever say or predict 100% unless the mutual karma of the seeker, provider r in synic to their karmas and ofcourse God willing. > > we all can come close to many events in our predictions manytimes never all times > > > > Prashant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@ ..> > > > > Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:18:24 PM > > Re: Complete Guidance > > > > > > Dear Dhirendra Ji, > > Why do you infer so?Is KP Astrology before Parashar?is it not the aspects evolved out of KP have no relation with classiclas of of varahamihira? > > Modern Astrologer and live never refer to KP.Good that KP has indication to time events as it can boast of narrowing down method. > > we do not mention and cite KP in our write up but have base of nakshtra lords and sub lords. > > You are so brazen with KP and ready jump to illogical inferences.KP may give further guidance but not to the extent it can suvert the classical texts. > > Great Astrologers made a point to be analytical and thorough with classical texts not logerthem table like KP Astro tables.Their hard work enriched them and brought laurels. > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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