ATTN; MR. VINAY JHAA 16 Main Problems of Vedic Astrology

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Jha,

The points raised by you are pertinent.

 

A few things before we converge to anything concrete.

 

a) I could nto locate any thing on the URL's given by you- coudl you please give

 

it again?

 

b) You made an assertion that eventaully it is practsie which makes the

difference...no theory-

 

I MAY NOT AGREE FULLY.

 

ATOM BOMB basic theory came frist to einsten/Otto hahn..later it was tested in

Hroshima..

 

Bot have a role to play..

 

c)

 

i) Not sure what your commenst of your divisional charts are?

 

If the changes due to ayamsa are only 1 degree, then in decanate the impact

would be say only on 10 % cases..but may be more on navamsa....

 

 

ii) The issue is NOT ONLY WITH CALCULATIONs- but with the INERPRETETIONS due to

complexity of the VA or any other similar system..

 

 

d) Anyways....could i have your DATA and INTERPRETETION PLEASE?

 

Thanks..

 

REgards,

Punkajj C Dhar

 

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> vrkrishnan ji,

> You say " veidc Jyotish is not Ganit Jyotish " . A strange remark ! Ganita and

Phalita are inseparable parts of Jyotisha. Famous astrologers like KN Rao ji and

others you name have worked well to popularize phalita jyotisha. Many people

have no doubts about the Ganita portion and regard physical astronomy as the

only true option in the realm of Ganita Jyotisha. You also expressed similar

views. Hence, I conclude that the unanimous decisiopn of four universities in

favour of Suryasiddhanta has no weight for you, you do not want to test their

model ( see the bottom of page :

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/NASA%27s_Report%3B_%26_my_Paper_accepted_by\

_CAOS%2C_IISc

> and also see : http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Credentials )

>

> I do not want wordy arguments. You do not want to compare two methods, and are

in favour of one, rejecting the other without even testing. You do not know what

you are rejecting.

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> , vattem krishnan <bursar_99@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinay Ji,

> > like all arts and sciences,vedic Astrology too has been evolving.In the

process the principles of Vedical Astrology are being tested every by several

scholars at different places.Now veidc Astrology has also made it's own place in

universities at abroad.The subject has grown from veidc times till now and

definetely the credit for this goes to Internet also.

> > Infact our sages have debated for long and inferred that veidc Jyotish is

not Ganit Jyotish.it is some thing connecetd with the wisdom of ancient sages to

understand seven planets and their cosmic effects on humanity.

> > The question however relates to credibility of the subject itself when we

think in terms of main problems in vedic Astrology.

> > Vedic Astrology has made significant strides with the initiative take late

Shri B.V.Raman and others.Infact he has adopted his own way of calculation even

though that might not be agreed upon by others.Indian Council for Astrology a

body created for promoting Astrology teaches students the concepts of jyotish as

conveyed by jaimini,Parashara and Varahmihira.Even they too have difference in

their understanding of vedic jyotish.

> >

> > What ever may the process adopted,if an Astrologer based on vedic principles

of Astrology is able to analyse and come out with predictions in a convincing

manner,no body would question the apparoch

> > .Indirectly it is we humans would like to see the calculations as 2+2=4.It

is here probably we are getting into issue which has not so much relevance to

traditional and conventional principles of jyotish.

> > Accuracy and a generaised approach as in scientic methods is the expectation

of many people to keep their trust in Astrology as a predictive tool and unfold

about future.

> > Secondly,we want the vast knowledge embedded in vedic sciences into a

progarammable language so that it's availability and applicationbecomes more

wider.In the process the astronomical factors relating to the movements of the

planets and their precison assumes greater significance to come out universal

data that can convince not only modern jyotishsis but also siddhantis and

pundits who have studied the nature and set up astronomical parks to measure the

movements of planets.

> > Infact in most of the sanskrit universities sevaral jantarmanatr type parks

have also been created.but their usage and to make the traditional subject on

scientific lines has not evinced interest.

> > A jyotishi/siddhanti/Pandit in his own way has vision to unravet the

mysteries of planets.Even today Phalit jyotish courses being conducted in

snaskrit universities has wide acceptability.

> > problem however lies for us as internet users.we donot want to go back to

old days and make janampatris in ghatis and work out on the bais of vimshottari

dasa.

> > we have adopted to the use of computers andnever questioned it's wisdom.Even

BV Raman or for that Shri K.n.Rao of modern times have their own approaches

beleived them and use them with the aid of computer.But what matters really are

predictive abilities

> > Thirdly do we really want to see the Vedic Astrology principles getting

simplified and made into programmable languages for the status of Vedic

Astrology to be elevated as a real science.

> > Finally I believe in Vedic principles of Vedic Astrology and the cosmic

effects these planet exert on human endeavours.Non beleievers always have their

point of arguments to say that why two astrologers hand over two different

predictions.

> > Perhaps,usage of Internet or no Internet must be kept separate and the

subject of Vedic Astrology need to be conceptualised.it is here we need long

years of study,experience and intiative to study the charts to find the problems

of the native and help him.So it is not that we transgressing from good olden

concepts but trying to improve our predictive abilities so that jyotish as an

ancient wisdom is useful to the human being in his daily chores.

> > " Practical testing is the only proper way. " we all do this either with or

without the help of Internet.Might be in some occassion we give room for others

to find differences among us

> > It is true that " They have mastered the ancient methods more than socalled

experts of indology in the West.'

> > we hats off to them for the ceaseless effort and pursuit to unravel the

wisdom conatained in sastras

> > Absolutely forgetting about the ways in which the vedic Jyotish is

understood and various ways of inferences,we still hold high esteem to " Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened. "

> > This is where I think we have no qualms as we have interest to listen

Sanskrit scholars as they have really made effort to simplify the ancient wisdom

and helping others to publish books and materials.

> > This what Shri K.N.Rao and others are continuing their efforts.Even Prof

Pandy,Prof Nagar and Prof Tripathy Ji of sanskrit universities ahve lot of

followers and even today's media remebers them as and when their role arises in

clarifying complicated issues.

> > vrkrishnan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@> wrote:

> >

> > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@>

> > Main Problems of Vedic Astrology

> >

> > Monday, April 6, 2009, 11:46 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To All :-

> >

> > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> >

> > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give the

user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> >

> > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on many

occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with their

due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> >

> > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> >

> > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> >

> > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true planets

of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> >

> > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> >

> > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the basis

> > of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is not

duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little or no

experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized astrologers

think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly suppressed

because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> >

> > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> >

> > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> >

> > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings

of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

> >

> > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world economy

( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010

) ; another example is

> > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+(from+Apr)+for+ South+Asia) .

> >

> > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

> >

> > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us

to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> >

> > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without personal

attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of traditional

scholarship may keep away.

> >

> > -VJ

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