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, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

 

 

 

Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

astronomy and mathematical astrology)

 

 

Written by Sunil Nair

 

 

 

Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical part

of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

mathematical astrology.

 

Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without going

in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

many.

 

 

 

So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions and

even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

reasons such as –

 

1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

interacted

 

2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

 

 

 

The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc – to name a

few.

 

 

 

Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

 

 

 

Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3 Skanthas

are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

 

 

 

Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

(sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

`sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy), Nimitta

(omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

 

Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

main branches or heads.

 

1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

Ganita (calculation)

 

2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

part of Nimitta

 

3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation, group

or particular geographical location etc ) – in this context it is

also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

in weather, Growth-diseases-treatment-cure of animals and plants, Nature

and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

 

 

 

Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

 

 

 

1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

 

2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

and in short spherical astronomy.

 

3) Nimitta –deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

– mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to body

language, events and so on.

 

4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

a qurrent

 

5) Muhurta – selection of auspicious time for success in

religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

undertaking.

 

6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

 

 

 

Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

 

As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

date calculations), mean position of planets, true position of planets,

solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of approach

between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

skanta) – there are numerous ideas present in astrologia mathematics

that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or the

other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

texts.

 

 

 

Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word tantra

here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

 

 

 

Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer is

expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which it

would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha when

they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

calculations.

 

 

 

So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

different angle – the deal with what we see, observe, experience as

seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

 

 

 

Some words on Charlatans

 

Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that Sun

was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

and was given `as observed from earth' – erroneously terming

it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic, horizon

etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that since

- `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus and

useless.

 

 

 

So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming scientific

temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments. They

act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

truth – while in truth they are into their missionary mission of

destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia. In

their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to the

extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention – but only

distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever they

feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they may

equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words usually

`out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra).

 

 

 

This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be used

for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and knowledge

branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

 

 

 

Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

 

The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

-Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

 

 

 

Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta) is

accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka Siddhanta),

but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha (Brahma;

Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not accurate

(means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

 

 

 

Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those like

Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating, in

the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

to us is that – we should test the efficiency and accuracy of the

Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

 

 

 

Second, to dharma Pravarthaka's (Hindu religious propagators), who in

the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas. They

usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is spreading

lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas of

that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

generation of scholars?

 

 

 

They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts and

twisting everything.

 

 

 

Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon. Astrology

was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula originators

designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available only

some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior to

other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

 

 

 

Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate

but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa)

are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

mathematics). I think and assume that, this all point to the very fact

that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

(physical position) of planets – i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

(touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening etc

– all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So all

these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real planetary

positions – the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha is

true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is not

the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality)

are totally wrong.

 

 

 

The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that it

is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used in

computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th century

(much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections after

55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary position

of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

 

 

 

He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

 

Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

 

drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

 

ganakanam santhosha pradam

 

maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

 

(4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

 

 

 

So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence using

modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern tools.

The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

laid down by ancient sages.

 

 

 

[i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

– if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and caliber.

But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all astrologers

who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join and

contribute for this discussions]

 

--- End forwarded message ---

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Reply to Mr Sunil Nair's inroads into Siddhantic Jyotisha :

 

It is amusing to read Mr Sunil Nair. Here, I am pointing at some glaring

mistakes in his statements ensuing from his lack of knowledge of those very

texts on which he comment.

 

He says : <<< " Prasna Marga gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be

due to the mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's opinions). It

says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate but Surya Siddhanta

is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa) are archaic in nature. " >>>

 

Mr Nair never read even one page of Varaha Mihira's Panch-siddhaantika, that is

why he says so. The above statement is a verbatim copy of what Varaha Mihira

wrote in the initial page of Panch-siddhaantika, and Mr Nair imagines Varaha

Mihira said something different !! If Prasna Marga used some ideas of Varaha

Mihira , how those very ideas became alienated from Varaha Mihira !!!

 

Without reading the siddhanta grantha of Varaha Mihira, Mr Nair says :

" " Varahamihira saying that those calculations are not at par with present day

planetary phenomenon " . Varaha Mihira never said so. He said Suryasiddhanta is

most clear among all siddhantas, and made no attempt to change it. Mr Nair makes

another wrong statement : " Why Varahamihira ... tried to improve it ? " He should

show the verse in which Varaha Mihira made such alleged attempts.

 

While warring with some wrong headed calendar reformers, Mr Nair makes another

wrong statement : " Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

does not borrow anything from each other. " Ptolemy's Almagest and

Suryasiddhanta have same basic framework, on account of which many Western

scholars say Suryasiddhanta was based upon Almagest. But even Burgess accepts

that Suryasiddhanta lacks some improvements which Ptolemy brought about due to

physical observation, eg second inequality in Moon's equation, which all Indian

siddhantas lacked till modern age. Hence, if Suryasiddhanta is more primitive,

it must be older than Almagest and not vice versa. Mr Nair should read Almagest,

Suryasiddhanta , Panchsiddhantika, etc, before making careless statements on

public forums.

 

Mr Nair does not know that Burgess was the first commentator of Suryasiddhanta

who considered beeja-samskaara not to be a part of Suryasiddhanta. All previous

experts of Suryasiddhanta accepted beeja-samskaara in Suryasiddhanta, which is

indicated in verse-9 of chapter-1 ( This verse cannot be interpreted as updating

basic theory, but as updating beeja corrections. There were 22 shlokas of beeja

samskaara which were updated from time to time and were appended in the last

portion of the text. Burgess removed those verses) , and whose proof is the long

tradition of Suryasiddhantic panchangas made from Suryasiddhantic Makaranda

Tables of 1478 AD ; Diwakara Bhatta even expalined the values of beeja

samskaaras used in earlier Suryasiddhantic tables. Mr Nair believes in Burgess

in saying that " so called beeja corrections are not required " . Suryasiddhantic

tradition required beeja-samskaara from earliest times, be it Panchsiddhantika

of Varaha Mihira or

Siamese Tables (preserved in France) based on 7th century AD Suryasiddhantic

tables or Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD.

 

Mr Nair has no interest in testing the validity of Saurapaksha. He told me that

he will test Kundalee only after everyone else accepts it. This biased attitude

is based upon a psychological mindset which declares : " Vinay's arguments and

approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary positions only as

spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality) are totally wrong.

 

Mind the words " only as spiritual unrelated to reality " ! He means " spiritual "

is " unrelated to reality " , and reality is merely " physical reality " . Although

these materialists are younger to me, I never address them, including Mr Nair,

with first names, as Mr Nair is doing. I left AIA due to abusive behaviour of Mr

Nair's team, and he has started the same again here. Decency in personal

behaviour is a part of spiritualism which is " unreal " to Mr Nair. Adherence to

Truth and honesty is also related to spiritualism , which is not needed in

making false statements like : " Varahamihira himself tells us that in the

absence of proper updating, in the changing times many Sidhantas became

obsolete. " Where did Varahamihira say so ? Cite the verse from his

siddhantika. Mr Nair has no right to impose his own ideas on Varahamihira.

 

There is no cure for prejudice , but there are many cures for false propaganda,

which I will continue to apply. I myself believed in the reality of physical

things, till I tested Suryasiddhanta without a bias. I know Mr Nair is basically

a good person, but what he needs is some impartiality, which cannot be purchased

in market and should be acquired through some tapasyaa.

 

-VJ

========= ============= =========

 

 

________________________________

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:27:56 PM

Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of Jyothisha

 

 

 

 

 

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

astronomy and mathematical astrology)

 

Written by Sunil Nair

 

Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical part

of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

mathematical astrology.

 

Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without going

in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

many.

 

So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions and

even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

reasons such as –

 

1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

interacted

 

2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

 

The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc – to name a

few.

 

Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

 

Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3 Skanthas

are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

 

Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

(sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

`sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy), Nimitta

(omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

 

Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

main branches or heads.

 

1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

Ganita (calculation)

 

2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

part of Nimitta

 

3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation, group

or particular geographical location etc ) – in this context it is

also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants, Nature

and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

 

Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

way itself.. The six Angas can be described as follows -

 

1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

 

2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

and in short spherical astronomy.

 

3) Nimitta –deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

– mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to body

language, events and so on.

 

4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

a qurrent

 

5) Muhurta – selection of auspicious time for success in

religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

undertaking.

 

6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

 

Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

 

As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of planets,

solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of approach

between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

skanta) – there are numerous ideas present in astrologia mathematics

that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or the

other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

texts.

 

Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word tantra

here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

 

Coming back to our subject of discussion, i..e. Ganita, an astrologer is

expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which it

would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha when

they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

calculations.

 

So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

different angle – the deal with what we see, observe, experience as

seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

 

Some words on Charlatans

 

Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that Sun

was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

and was given `as observed from earth' – erroneously terming

it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic, horizon

etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that since

- `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus and

useless.

 

So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming scientific

temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.. They

act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

truth – while in truth they are into their missionary mission of

destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia. In

their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to the

extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention – but only

distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever they

feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they may

equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words usually

`out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

 

This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be used

for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and knowledge

branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it..

They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

 

Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

 

The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

-Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

 

Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta) is

accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka Siddhanta),

but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha (Brahma;

Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not accurate

(means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

 

Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those like

Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating, in

the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

to us is that – we should test the efficiency and accuracy of the

Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

 

Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who in

the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas. They

usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is spreading

lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas of

that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

generation of scholars?

 

They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts and

twisting everything.

 

Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon. Astrology

was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula originators

designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available only

some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior to

other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

 

Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate

but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa)

are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very fact

that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

(physical position) of planets – i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

(touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening etc

– all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So all

these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real planetary

positions – the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha is

true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is not

the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality)

are totally wrong.

 

The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that it

is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used in

computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th century

(much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections after

55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary position

of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

 

He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

 

Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

 

drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

 

ganakanam santhosha pradam

 

maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

 

(4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

 

So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence using

modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern tools.

The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

laid down by ancient sages.

 

[i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

– if any.. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and caliber.

But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all astrologers

who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join and

contribute for this discussions]

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dear Sunil ji

very explicit and meaningful eloberation.thanx a lot.God bless

vrkrishnan

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of Jyothisha

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

astronomy and mathematical astrology)

 

Written by Sunil Nair

 

Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical part

of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

mathematical astrology.

 

Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without going

in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

many.

 

So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions and

even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

reasons such as –

 

1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

interacted

 

2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

 

The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc – to name a

few.

 

Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

 

Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3 Skanthas

are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

 

Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

(sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

`sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy), Nimitta

(omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

 

Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

main branches or heads.

 

1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

Ganita (calculation)

 

2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

part of Nimitta

 

3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation, group

or particular geographical location etc ) – in this context it is

also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants, Nature

and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

 

Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

 

1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

 

2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

and in short spherical astronomy.

 

3) Nimitta –deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

– mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to body

language, events and so on.

 

4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

a qurrent

 

5) Muhurta – selection of auspicious time for success in

religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

undertaking.

 

6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

 

Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

 

As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of planets,

solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of approach

between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

skanta) – there are numerous ideas present in astrologia mathematics

that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or the

other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

texts.

 

Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word tantra

here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

 

Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer is

expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which it

would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha when

they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

calculations.

 

So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

different angle – the deal with what we see, observe, experience as

seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

 

Some words on Charlatans

 

Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that Sun

was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

and was given `as observed from earth' – erroneously terming

it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic, horizon

etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that since

- `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus and

useless.

 

So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming scientific

temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments. They

act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

truth – while in truth they are into their missionary mission of

destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia. In

their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to the

extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention – but only

distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever they

feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they may

equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words usually

`out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

 

This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be used

for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and knowledge

branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

 

Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

 

The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

-Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

 

Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta) is

accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka Siddhanta),

but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha (Brahma;

Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not accurate

(means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

 

Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those like

Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating, in

the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

to us is that – we should test the efficiency and accuracy of the

Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

 

Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who in

the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas. They

usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is spreading

lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas of

that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

generation of scholars?

 

They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts and

twisting everything.

 

Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon. Astrology

was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula originators

designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available only

some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior to

other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

 

Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate

but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa)

are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very fact

that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

(physical position) of planets – i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

(touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening etc

– all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So all

these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real planetary

positions – the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha is

true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is not

the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality)

are totally wrong.

 

The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that it

is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used in

computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th century

(much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections after

55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary position

of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

 

He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

 

Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

 

drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

 

ganakanam santhosha pradam

 

maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

 

(4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

 

So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence using

modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern tools.

The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

laid down by ancient sages.

 

[i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

– if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and caliber.

But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all astrologers

who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join and

contribute for this discussions]

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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dear vinay ji

 

I am not a scholar or a sidhanthi ,my forte was only phala jyothisha

,the reasons i searched for sidhantic tradition in astrologia is due to

the so called attacks of some ppl who after wearing hindu mask attacking

who ever contributed to astrology even if famous rishies and called them

frauds or charlattan or fakes .U know in south sidha tradition ( they

were acharyas in almost all sastras like agastya ,pulastya and kashyapa

etc same names u can find in Hindu mythology/puranas and other treatises

too but in south we blv they lived in our soil ) also similarly

contributed to astrology and i strt doubting how can it b possible and

all my writing ( after searching the truth ) frm there onwards was

based contribution of south or kerala in various fields ( it is not due

to i am against north indians but i can tell only what i know or i am

sure abt it --where as u can see i use hindu's in geographical sense of

all indians means i am not against any religions or races ) ,similarly

take this article as first step of a nursery kid and yes i realy

criticised u in this article but in scholary way ,same way i did with

many other scholar giving full due respect and i never think i know

every thing ( sure i do fight with half baked guru's or 3 months into

astrology gurus who dont know even how to giv respect to a pundit or a

scholar )

 

 

 

so still i re-iterate that i am no match for ur scholarship

 

 

 

sure i said i will test ur chart when it become consumer frndly it is

because of 2 reasons

 

(i informed u In our prvt mails which we still carry on alternativ days

basis )

 

 

 

1) i am basicaly an astrologer ,so i cannot test any thing on my

customers ,so passive testing with a longer period only possible (

otherwise it will b like a doctor testing new medicine directly on his

patient )

 

 

 

2) i am not a computer savvy person ( that is the main reason i cannot

type all that sanskrit shlokas with aid of other tools and some one is

helping me where ever is required )

 

 

 

3 ) if downloading a SW i hav to take help frm some one ,means i need to

pay for him every time in case it fails

 

 

 

i already told in this article it is not my opinion but i gathered what

i feel this may b true due to specific words used by acharyas ,r u

saying aryabhatta or parameshwara acharya is wrong ??

 

 

 

similarly i asked ur opinion almost 5 days b4 when this was ready for

post and even invited ur incisive opinions ( what ever it is -even if

abuse ) and i promised u also it will b post in other grp also asked u

to participate directly incase u r ready

 

as rgrds to my grp i am not one there and there is so many ppl there and

i cannot personaly stop any one unless they used some foul launguage

that also i can giv them first warning and banning etc i can do only in

democratic way as it will b a joint decision as decided earlier

 

 

 

other wise even when i meet u personaly or even when u wrote in this

same forum ( or even our prvt mails ) i never used any thing bad

against u

 

so wat i need is truth who ever is right or wrong is immaterial

 

 

 

we r here for hindu jyothisha ( not for making some name or quick profit

) and irrespectiv age or any barrier it shud passed on to other sincere

and serious takers even if he is frm alaska and it is duty of us i blv

entrusted by rishies and our ancesters

 

sorry for any words in this reply if it hurt u and go ahed with ur

search and reserch on sidhanthas

 

take wat ever i am asking as a query of a serious student of sidhantha

only

 

 

 

with personal regrds sunil nair

 

 

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

wrote:

>

> Reply to Mr Sunil Nair's inroads into Siddhantic Jyotisha :

>

> It is amusing to read Mr Sunil Nair. Here, I am pointing at some

glaring mistakes in his statements ensuing from his lack of knowledge of

those very texts on which he comment.

>

> He says : <<< " Prasna Marga gives a different opinion than Varahamihira

(may be due to the mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it

was discussing various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its

author's opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

accurate but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

Paulisa) are archaic in nature. " >>>

>

> Mr Nair never read even one page of Varaha Mihira's

Panch-siddhaantika, that is why he says so. The above statement is a

verbatim copy of what Varaha Mihira wrote in the initial page of

Panch-siddhaantika, and Mr Nair imagines Varaha Mihira said something

different !! If Prasna Marga used some ideas of Varaha Mihira , how

those very ideas became alienated from Varaha Mihira !!!

>

> Without reading the siddhanta grantha of Varaha Mihira, Mr Nair says :

" " Varahamihira saying that those calculations are not at par with

present day planetary phenomenon " . Varaha Mihira never said so. He said

Suryasiddhanta is most clear among all siddhantas, and made no attempt

to change it. Mr Nair makes another wrong statement : " Why Varahamihira

.... tried to improve it ? " He should show the verse in which Varaha

Mihira made such alleged attempts.

>

> While warring with some wrong headed calendar reformers, Mr Nair makes

another wrong statement : " Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly

indicate that they does not borrow anything from each other. " Ptolemy's

Almagest and Suryasiddhanta have same basic framework, on account of

which many Western scholars say Suryasiddhanta was based upon Almagest.

But even Burgess accepts that Suryasiddhanta lacks some improvements

which Ptolemy brought about due to physical observation, eg second

inequality in Moon's equation, which all Indian siddhantas lacked till

modern age. Hence, if Suryasiddhanta is more primitive, it must be older

than Almagest and not vice versa. Mr Nair should read Almagest,

Suryasiddhanta , Panchsiddhantika, etc, before making careless

statements on public forums.

>

> Mr Nair does not know that Burgess was the first commentator of

Suryasiddhanta who considered beeja-samskaara not to be a part of

Suryasiddhanta. All previous experts of Suryasiddhanta accepted

beeja-samskaara in Suryasiddhanta, which is indicated in verse-9 of

chapter-1 ( This verse cannot be interpreted as updating basic theory,

but as updating beeja corrections. There were 22 shlokas of beeja

samskaara which were updated from time to time and were appended in the

last portion of the text. Burgess removed those verses) , and whose

proof is the long tradition of Suryasiddhantic panchangas made from

Suryasiddhantic Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD ; Diwakara Bhatta even

expalined the values of beeja samskaaras used in earlier Suryasiddhantic

tables. Mr Nair believes in Burgess in saying that " so called beeja

corrections are not required " . Suryasiddhantic tradition required

beeja-samskaara from earliest times, be it Panchsiddhantika of Varaha

Mihira or

> Siamese Tables (preserved in France) based on 7th century AD

Suryasiddhantic tables or Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD.

>

> Mr Nair has no interest in testing the validity of Saurapaksha. He

told me that he will test Kundalee only after everyone else accepts it.

This biased attitude is based upon a psychological mindset which

declares : " Vinay's arguments and approach (of considering Surya

Siddhanta based planetary positions only as spiritual unrelated to

reality than physical reality) are totally wrong.

>

> Mind the words " only as spiritual unrelated to reality " ! He

means " spiritual " is " unrelated to reality " , and reality is merely

" physical reality " . Although these materialists are younger to me, I

never address them, including Mr Nair, with first names, as Mr Nair is

doing. I left AIA due to abusive behaviour of Mr Nair's team, and he has

started the same again here. Decency in personal behaviour is a part of

spiritualism which is " unreal " to Mr Nair. Adherence to Truth and

honesty is also related to spiritualism , which is not needed in making

false statements like : " Varahamihira himself tells us that in the

absence of proper updating, in the changing times many Sidhantas became

obsolete. " Where did Varahamihira say so ? Cite the verse from his

siddhantika. Mr Nair has no right to impose his own ideas on

Varahamihira.

>

> There is no cure for prejudice , but there are many cures for false

propaganda, which I will continue to apply. I myself believed in the

reality of physical things, till I tested Suryasiddhanta without a bias.

I know Mr Nair is basically a good person, but what he needs is some

impartiality, which cannot be purchased in market and should be acquired

through some tapasyaa.

>

> -VJ

> ========= ============= =========

>

>

> ________________________________

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala

>

> Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:27:56 PM

> Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

Jyothisha

ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> astronomy and mathematical astrology)

>

> Written by Sunil Nair

>

> Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

part

> of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> mathematical astrology.

>

> Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

going

> in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

> many.

>

> So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

> Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

and

> even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

> true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

> was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> reasons such as †"

>

> 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> interacted

>

> 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

>

> The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

> hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to name

a

> few.

>

> Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

>

> Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

> branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

Skanthas

> are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

>

> Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

> (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

Nimitta

> (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

> Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

>

> Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> main branches or heads.

>

> 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> Ganita (calculation)

>

> 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> part of Nimitta

>

> 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

group

> or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context it

is

> also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

> in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

Nature

> and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

>

> Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

> way itself.. The six Angas can be described as follows -

>

> 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

>

> 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> and in short spherical astronomy.

>

> 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to

body

> language, events and so on.

>

> 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> a qurrent

>

> 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> undertaking.

>

> 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

>

> Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

>

> As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

> 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

> date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

planets,

> solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

> conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

approach

> between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

> skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

mathematics

> that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

> etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

> same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

the

> other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

> texts.

>

> Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

tantra

> here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

> Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

> like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

> is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

> It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

> Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

>

> Coming back to our subject of discussion, i..e. Ganita, an astrologer

is

> expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

> and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

> the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which

it

> would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

> be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

> orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

> true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

when

> they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

> degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

> into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> calculations.

>

> So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

> Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

experience as

> seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

>

> Some words on Charlatans

>

> Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

> about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

> that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

Sun

> was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

> and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously terming

> it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

horizon

> etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

> those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

since

> - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

and

> useless.

>

> So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

scientific

> temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

> was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

> minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

> pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

> Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

> religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.. They

> act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

> truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary mission

of

> destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

In

> their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

the

> extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

> not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

> saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

only

> distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

they

> feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

may

> equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

> with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

usually

> `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

>

> This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

used

> for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

> everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

knowledge

> branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it..

> They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

> mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

>

> Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

>

> The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

> Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

> acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

> provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

>

> Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta)

is

> accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

Siddhanta),

> but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

(Brahma;

> Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

accurate

> (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

>

> Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

like

> Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

> we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating,

in

> the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

> to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy of

the

> Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

>

> Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

in

> the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

They

> usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

spreading

> lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

> the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

> show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas

of

> that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> generation of scholars?

>

> They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

> does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

> also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

and

> twisting everything.

>

> Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

> such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

Astrology

> was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

> ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

originators

> designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

only

> some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior

to

> other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

>

> Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

> gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

accurate

> but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

Paulisa)

> are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

> mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

fact

> that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

> (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

> non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

> is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

etc

> †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

> like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

all

> these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

planetary

> positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha

is

> true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

not

> the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

> positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

reality)

> are totally wrong.

>

> The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that

it

> is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

in

> computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

> all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

> found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

> and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

century

> (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

after

> 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

position

> of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

> also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

> Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

>

> He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

> to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

>

> Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

>

> drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

>

> ganakanam santhosha pradam

>

> maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

>

> (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

>

> So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

using

> modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

tools.

> The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

> laid down by ancient sages.

>

> [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

> †" if any.. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

caliber.

> But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

> opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

astrologers

> who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

and

> contribute for this discussions]

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

 

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Guest guest

dear Krishnan ji

 

namaskar

 

 

 

thanks for ur good words and blessing

 

 

 

with regrds sunil nair

 

 

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99

wrote:

>

> Â

> Dear Sunil ji

> very explicit and meaningful eloberation.thanx a lot.God bless

> vrkrishnan

> --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala

> Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

Jyothisha

>

> Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

>

>

>

ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> astronomy and mathematical astrology)

>

> Written by Sunil Nair

>

> Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

part

> of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> mathematical astrology.

>

> Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

going

> in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

> many.

>

> So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

> Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

and

> even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

> true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

> was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> reasons such as †"

>

> 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> interacted

>

> 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

>

> The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

> hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to name

a

> few.

>

> Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

>

> Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

> branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

Skanthas

> are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

>

> Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

> (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

Nimitta

> (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

> Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

>

> Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> main branches or heads.

>

> 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> Ganita (calculation)

>

> 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> part of Nimitta

>

> 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

group

> or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context it

is

> also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

> in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

Nature

> and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

>

> Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

> way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

>

> 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

>

> 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> and in short spherical astronomy.

>

> 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to

body

> language, events and so on.

>

> 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> a qurrent

>

> 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> undertaking.

>

> 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

>

> Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

>

> As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

> 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

> date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

planets,

> solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

> conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

approach

> between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

> skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

mathematics

> that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

> etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

> same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

the

> other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

> texts.

>

> Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

tantra

> here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

> Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

> like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

> is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

> It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

> Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

>

> Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer

is

> expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

> and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

> the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which

it

> would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

> be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

> orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

> true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

when

> they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

> degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

> into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> calculations.

>

> So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

> Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

experience as

> seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

>

> Some words on Charlatans

>

> Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

> about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

> that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

Sun

> was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

> and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously terming

> it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

horizon

> etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

> those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

since

> - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

and

> useless.

>

> So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

scientific

> temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

> was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

> minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

> pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

> Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

> religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments. They

> act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

> truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary mission

of

> destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

In

> their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

the

> extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

> not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

> saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

only

> distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

they

> feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

may

> equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

> with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

usually

> `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

>

> This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

used

> for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

> everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

knowledge

> branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

> They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

> mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

>

> Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

>

> The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

> Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

> acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

> provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

>

> Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta)

is

> accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

Siddhanta),

> but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

(Brahma;

> Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

accurate

> (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

>

> Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

like

> Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

> we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating,

in

> the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

> to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy of

the

> Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

>

> Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

in

> the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

They

> usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

spreading

> lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

> the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

> show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas

of

> that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> generation of scholars?

>

> They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

> does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

> also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

and

> twisting everything.

>

> Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

> such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

Astrology

> was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

> ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

originators

> designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

only

> some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior

to

> other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

>

> Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

> gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

accurate

> but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

Paulisa)

> are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

> mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

fact

> that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

> (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

> non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

> is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

etc

> †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

> like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

all

> these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

planetary

> positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha

is

> true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

not

> the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

> positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

reality)

> are totally wrong.

>

> The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that

it

> is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

in

> computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

> all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

> found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

> and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

century

> (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

after

> 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

position

> of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

> also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

> Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

>

> He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

> to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

>

> Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

>

> drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

>

> ganakanam santhosha pradam

>

> maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

>

> (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

>

> So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

using

> modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

tools.

> The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

> laid down by ancient sages.

>

> [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

> †" if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

caliber.

> But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

> opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

astrologers

> who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

and

> contribute for this discussions]

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

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dear vinay ji

I am not a scholar or a sidhanthi ,my forte was only phala jyothisha ,the reasons i searched for sidhantic tradition in astrologia is due to the so called attacks of some ppl who after wearing hindu mask attacking who ever contributed to astrology even if famous rishies and called them frauds or charlattan or fakes .U know in south sidha tradition ( they were acharyas in almost all sastras like agastya ,pulastya and kashyapa etc same names u can find in Hindu mythology/puranas and other treatises too but in south we blv they lived in our soil ) also similarly contributed to astrology and i strt doubting how can it b possible and all my writing ( after searching the truth ) frm there onwards was based contribution of south or kerala in various fields ( it is not due to i am against north indians but i can tell only what i know or i am sure abt it --where as u can see i use hindu's in geographical sense of all indians means i am not against any religions or races ) ,similarly take this article as first step of a nursery kid and yes i realy criticised u in this article but in scholary way ,same way i did with many other scholar giving full due respect and i never think i know every thing ( sure i do fight with half baked guru's or 3 months into astrology gurus who dont know even how to giv respect to a pundit or a scholar )

 

so still i re-iterate that i am no match for ur scholarship

 

sure i said i will test ur chart when it become consumer frndly it is because of 2 reasons

(i informed u In our prvt mails which we still carry on alternativ days basis )

 

1) i am basicaly an astrologer ,so i cannot test any thing on my customers ,so passive testing with a longer period only possible ( otherwise it will b like a doctor testing new medicine directly on his patient )

 

2) i am not a computer savvy person ( that is the main reason i cannot type all that sanskrit shlokas with aid of other tools and some one is helping me where ever is required )

 

3 ) if downloading a SW i hav to take help frm some one ,means i need to pay for him every time in case it fails

 

i already told in this article it is not my opinion but i gathered what i feel this may b true due to specific words used by acharyas ,r u saying aryabhatta or parameshwara acharya is wrong ??

 

similarly i asked ur opinion almost 5 days b4 when this was ready for post and even invited ur incisive opinions ( what ever it is -even if abuse ) and i promised u also it will b post in other grp also asked u to participate directly incase u r ready

as rgrds to my grp i am not one there and there is so many ppl there and i cannot personaly stop any one unless they used some foul launguage that also i can giv them first warning and banning etc i can do only in democratic way as it will b a joint decision as decided earlier

 

other wise even when i meet u personaly or even when u wrote in this same forum ( or even our prvt mails ) i never used any thing bad against u

so wat i need is truth who ever is right or wrong is immaterial

 

we r here for hindu jyothisha ( not for making some name or quick profit ) and irrespectiv age or any barrier it shud passed on to other sincere and serious takers even if he is frm alaska and it is duty of us i blv entrusted by rishies and our ancesters

sorry for any words in this reply if it hurt u and go ahed with ur search and reserch on sidhanthas

take wat ever i am asking as a query of a serious student of sidhantha only

 

with personal regrds sunil nair , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > , Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@> wrote:> > Reply to Mr Sunil Nair's inroads into Siddhantic Jyotisha :> > It is amusing to read Mr Sunil Nair. Here, I am pointing at some glaring> mistakes in his statements ensuing from his lack of knowledge of those> very texts on which he comment.> > He says : <<<"Prasna Marga gives a different opinion than Varahamihira> (may be due to the mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it> was discussing various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its> author's opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more> accurate but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and> Paulisa) are archaic in nature.">>>> > Mr Nair never read even one page of Varaha Mihira's Panch-siddhaantika,> that is why he says so. The above statement is a verbatim copy of what> Varaha Mihira wrote in the initial page of Panch-siddhaantika, and Mr> Nair imagines Varaha Mihira said something different !! If Prasna Marga> used some ideas of Varaha Mihira , how those very ideas became alienated> from Varaha Mihira !!!> > Without reading the siddhanta grantha of Varaha Mihira, Mr Nair says :> ""Varahamihira saying that those calculations are not at par with> present day planetary phenomenon". Varaha Mihira never said so. He said> Suryasiddhanta is most clear among all siddhantas, and made no attempt> to change it. Mr Nair makes another wrong statement : "Why Varahamihira> ... tried to improve it ?" He should show the verse in which Varaha> Mihira made such alleged attempts.> > While warring with some wrong headed calendar reformers, Mr Nair makes> another wrong statement : "Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly> indicate that they does not borrow anything from each other." > Ptolemy's Almagest and Suryasiddhanta have same basic framework, on> account of which many Western scholars say Suryasiddhanta was based upon> Almagest. But even Burgess accepts that Suryasiddhanta lacks some> improvements which Ptolemy brought about due to physical observation, eg> second inequality in Moon's equation, which all Indian siddhantas lacked> till modern age. Hence, if Suryasiddhanta is more primitive, it must be> older than Almagest and not vice versa. Mr Nair should read Almagest,> Suryasiddhanta , Panchsiddhantika, etc, before making careless> statements on public forums.> > Mr Nair does not know that Burgess was the first commentator of> Suryasiddhanta who considered beeja-samskaara not to be a part of> Suryasiddhanta. All previous experts of Suryasiddhanta accepted> beeja-samskaara in Suryasiddhanta, which is indicated in verse-9 of> chapter-1 ( This verse cannot be interpreted as updating basic theory,> but as updating beeja corrections. There were 22 shlokas of beeja> samskaara which were updated from time to time and were appended in the> last portion of the text. Burgess removed those verses) , and whose> proof is the long tradition of Suryasiddhantic panchangas made from> Suryasiddhantic Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD ; Diwakara Bhatta even> expalined the values of beeja samskaaras used in earlier Suryasiddhantic> tables. Mr Nair believes in Burgess in saying that "so called beeja> corrections are not required". Suryasiddhantic tradition required> beeja-samskaara from earliest times, be it Panchsiddhantika of Varaha> Mihira or> Siamese Tables (preserved in France) based on 7th century AD> Suryasiddhantic tables or Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD.> > Mr Nair has no interest in testing the validity of Saurapaksha. He told> me that he will test Kundalee only after everyone else accepts it. This> biased attitude is based upon a psychological mindset which declares :> "Vinay's arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based> planetary positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical> reality) are totally wrong.> > Mind the words "only as spiritual unrelated to reality" ! He> means"spiritual" is "unrelated to reality", and reality is merely> "physical reality". Although these materialists are younger to me, I> never address them, including Mr Nair, with first names, as Mr Nair is> doing. I left AIA due to abusive behaviour of Mr Nair's team, and he has> started the same again here. Decency in personal behaviour is a part of> spiritualism which is "unreal" to Mr Nair. Adherence to Truth and> honesty is also related to spiritualism , which is not needed in making> false statements like : "Varahamihira himself tells us that in the> absence of proper updating, in the changing times many Sidhantas became> obsolete." Where did Varahamihira say so ? Cite the verse from his> siddhantika. Mr Nair has no right to impose his own ideas on> Varahamihira.> > There is no cure for prejudice , but there are many cures for false> propaganda, which I will continue to apply. I myself believed in the> reality of physical things, till I tested Suryasiddhanta without a bias.> I know Mr Nair is basically a good person, but what he needs is some> impartiality, which cannot be purchased in market and should be acquired> through some tapasyaa.> > -VJ> ========= ============= =========> > > ________________________________> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@> > Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:27:56 PM> Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of> Jyothisha> > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "sunil nair"> <astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical> astronomy and mathematical astrology)> > Written by Sunil Nair> > Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and> astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical part> of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and> mathematical astrology.> > Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without going> in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed> analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by> many.> > So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what> Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions and> even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be> true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the> astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala> was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting> reasons such as â€"> > 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time> interacted> > 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained> the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.> > The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it> preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara> hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a> commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc â€" to name> a> few.> > Mathematical part of astrological astronomy> > Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major> branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3 Skanthas> are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is> considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).> > Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas> (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is> `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.> Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches> of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy), Nimitta> (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and> Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).> > Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the> main branches or heads.> > 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and> Ganita (calculation)> > 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some> part of Nimitta> > 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.> It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation, group> or particular geographical location etc ) â€" in this context it is> also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes> in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,> Nature> and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful> natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything> related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.> > Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this> way itself.. The six Angas can be described as follows -> > 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of> rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position> > 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities> and in short spherical astronomy.> > 3) Nimitta â€"deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)> â€" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to> body> language, events and so on.> > 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by> a qurrent> > 5) Muhurta â€" selection of auspicious time for success in> religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any> undertaking.> > 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or> mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that> deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.> > Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics> > As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in> 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era> date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of planets,> solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar> conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and> setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of approach> between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita> skanta) â€" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia> mathematics> that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern> astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions> etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the> same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the> astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or the> other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta> ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,> Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita> texts.> > Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word tantra> here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.> Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra> like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.> Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this> that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It> is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just> something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.> It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)> valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of> Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.> > Coming back to our subject of discussion, i..e. Ganita, an astrologer is> expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating> eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets> and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is> the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the> epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which it> would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to> be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not> considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the> orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are> elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called> beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the> true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha when> they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one> degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter> into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The> heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and> rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra> samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate> calculations.> > So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference> between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia> mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and> approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,> retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.> Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a> different angle â€" the deal with what we see, observe, experience> as> seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.> > Some words on Charlatans> > Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak> about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,> ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things> that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we> observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that Sun> was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded> and was given `as observed from earth' â€" erroneously terming> it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the> modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic, horizon> etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only> those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that since> - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and> set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not> fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to> all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus and> useless.> > So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming scientific> temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even> without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I> was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted> minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu> pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting> Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or> religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.. They> act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for> truth â€" while in truth they are into their missionary mission of> destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia. In> their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to the> extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it> is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have> any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are> not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because> saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention â€" but only> distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this> purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever they> feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they may> equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra> with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words usually> `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand> the real meanings and context of those words or its application in> Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition> based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .> > This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,> regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be used> for "loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya" (For the well> being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of> everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and knowledge> branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with> advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even> though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it..> They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to> destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective> mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.> > Sidhantas: how realistic are they?> > The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz> -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,> Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,> Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many> acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages> including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18> acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions> provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the> admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other> Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.> > Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5> Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta) is> accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka Siddhanta),> but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha (Brahma;> Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not accurate> (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).> > Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those like> Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and> we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is> always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.> Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating, in> the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice> to us is that â€" we should test the efficiency and accuracy of the> Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.> > Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who in> the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas. They> usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is spreading> lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even> European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards> the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama> Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not> show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas> become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and> Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas of> that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying> that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary> phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive> generation of scholars?> > They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective> cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately> mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they> does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people> enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from> other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and> also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts and> twisting everything.> > Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims> such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is> clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than> treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon. Astrology> was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If> astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and> divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from> different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas> ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula originators> designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later> scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few> Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available only> some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior to> other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all> Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by> individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?> > Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed> compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts> because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not> available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha> Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga> gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the> mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing> various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's> opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more accurate> but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and Paulisa)> are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,> Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their> Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia> mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very fact> that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position> (physical position) of planets â€" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9> planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some> non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it> is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha> (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and> its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening etc> â€" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas> like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So all> these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real planetary> positions â€" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha is> true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is not> the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's> arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary> positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical reality)> are totally wrong.> > The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as> Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that it> is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used in> computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and> all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again> found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions> and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th century> (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections after> 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined> further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be> known as "Drik Ganita" (actual Planetary positions `as> observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which> explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary position> of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise> also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as> Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).> > He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in> previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and> necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only> to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -> > Viknjaya cha laghu thantram> > drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa> > ganakanam santhosha pradam> > maya grahana mandanam kriyathe> > (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)> > So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence using> modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I> don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of> calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern tools.> The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles> laid down by ancient sages.> > [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article> â€" if any.. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and> caliber.> But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly> opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all astrologers> who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join and> contribute for this discussions]> > --- End forwarded message ---> > > > > > > >

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Sunil Nair ji,

 

I know you are a sincere person, but I think addressing an elder or even a

non-relative youngster by first name is anainst Hindu culture.

 

I had told you that I can join your group if words like " silly, fool, etc " are

not used by any member against me, esp by Chandrahari ji and Sreenadh ji. I got

no answer. Instead, I found you addressing me by firsy name.

 

Abuse or praise is nothing to me, I did not raise a family and I do not care

whether people remember me or not or whether they abuse me or praise me after I

leave this planet. But I do care for the wrong remarks against foundations of

Indian astrology.

 

You are opening a war on two fronts. Either fight with the calendar-destroyers

first, or fight with me.

 

You have no moral right either to decide siddhantic matters which you have not

studied properly, or to pass comments against my method without testing it.

 

To tell you the harsh truth, I do not care whether someone uses Kundalee or not.

I really do not wish everyone should use it. Suryasiddhanta forbids giving its

knowledge to undeserving persons. I have two choices, either I have to

distribute Kundalee as a freeware open to all, or not to distribute it at all on

internet and give it only to chosen persons. I was following the second option

for four years. First version of Kundalee appeared in 2005 AD, but I launched it

on internet in mid 2008 only, and started propagating it through internet fora

since Dec 2008, and in AIA since 1-1-2009.

 

If you really want to test it, there is a way of downloading the whole package

at single click, and installking at a single click. Only 1-2% users are now

having complaints, because they have TEMP folder at different locations, but I

have indicated how this problem can be solved.

 

I know Sreenadh ji or Chandrahari ji have no interest in testing my work

astrologically. What is the use of discussions, then ?? I cannot stop

distributing this software just because some persons do not want to test it.

 

The main problem with Kundalee software lies not in this software which your

team does not want to test, but in your superstition in the reality of the

material world, which is Maayaa to those who have renounced personal desires.

Materialists like you have a vast majority in the world today. But ultimately,

Truth shall prevail, and dead matter is not Truth. Unfortunately, neither you

nor me will be here to see that day.

 

Do not take my word as an offence. I am writing what I know is true. Unless you

change your food habits , contacts, lifestyle, etc, you will not be able to see

the wonders inherent in Kundalee. It is not a mere software. It is not my

creation. I merely worked like a labourer. It is a divine gift which some

prejudiced persons are rejecting. With a bias, they will never be able to judge

its true worth, because real testing requires impartiality.

 

I support Mr Chandrahari's statement that Chitrapakshiya ayanamsha is wrong

because Chitra was never a reference nakshatra. But I cannot accept Mr

Chandrahari's ayanamsha because it will reduce the ASTROLOGICAL accuracy of my

software from 100% to ~70%.

 

-VJ

============== ============

, " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala

wrote:

>

>

>

>

> dear vinay ji

>

> I am not a scholar or a sidhanthi ,my forte was only phala jyothisha

> ,the reasons i searched for sidhantic tradition in astrologia is due to

> the so called attacks of some ppl who after wearing hindu mask attacking

> who ever contributed to astrology even if famous rishies and called them

> frauds or charlattan or fakes .U know in south sidha tradition ( they

> were acharyas in almost all sastras like agastya ,pulastya and kashyapa

> etc same names u can find in Hindu mythology/puranas and other treatises

> too but in south we blv they lived in our soil ) also similarly

> contributed to astrology and i strt doubting how can it b possible and

> all my writing ( after searching the truth ) frm there onwards was

> based contribution of south or kerala in various fields ( it is not due

> to i am against north indians but i can tell only what i know or i am

> sure abt it --where as u can see i use hindu's in geographical sense of

> all indians means i am not against any religions or races ) ,similarly

> take this article as first step of a nursery kid and yes i realy

> criticised u in this article but in scholary way ,same way i did with

> many other scholar giving full due respect and i never think i know

> every thing ( sure i do fight with half baked guru's or 3 months into

> astrology gurus who dont know even how to giv respect to a pundit or a

> scholar )

>

>

>

> so still i re-iterate that i am no match for ur scholarship

>

>

>

> sure i said i will test ur chart when it become consumer frndly it is

> because of 2 reasons

>

> (i informed u In our prvt mails which we still carry on alternativ days

> basis )

>

>

>

> 1) i am basicaly an astrologer ,so i cannot test any thing on my

> customers ,so passive testing with a longer period only possible (

> otherwise it will b like a doctor testing new medicine directly on his

> patient )

>

>

>

> 2) i am not a computer savvy person ( that is the main reason i cannot

> type all that sanskrit shlokas with aid of other tools and some one is

> helping me where ever is required )

>

>

>

> 3 ) if downloading a SW i hav to take help frm some one ,means i need to

> pay for him every time in case it fails

>

>

>

> i already told in this article it is not my opinion but i gathered what

> i feel this may b true due to specific words used by acharyas ,r u

> saying aryabhatta or parameshwara acharya is wrong ??

>

>

>

> similarly i asked ur opinion almost 5 days b4 when this was ready for

> post and even invited ur incisive opinions ( what ever it is -even if

> abuse ) and i promised u also it will b post in other grp also asked u

> to participate directly incase u r ready

>

> as rgrds to my grp i am not one there and there is so many ppl there and

> i cannot personaly stop any one unless they used some foul launguage

> that also i can giv them first warning and banning etc i can do only in

> democratic way as it will b a joint decision as decided earlier

>

>

>

> other wise even when i meet u personaly or even when u wrote in this

> same forum ( or even our prvt mails ) i never used any thing bad

> against u

>

> so wat i need is truth who ever is right or wrong is immaterial

>

>

>

> we r here for hindu jyothisha ( not for making some name or quick profit

> ) and irrespectiv age or any barrier it shud passed on to other sincere

> and serious takers even if he is frm alaska and it is duty of us i blv

> entrusted by rishies and our ancesters

>

> sorry for any words in this reply if it hurt u and go ahed with ur

> search and reserch on sidhanthas

>

> take wat ever i am asking as a query of a serious student of sidhantha

> only

>

>

>

> with personal regrds sunil nair

>

>

>

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Reply to Mr Sunil Nair's inroads into Siddhantic Jyotisha :

> >

> > It is amusing to read Mr Sunil Nair. Here, I am pointing at some

> glaring mistakes in his statements ensuing from his lack of knowledge of

> those very texts on which he comment.

> >

> > He says : <<< " Prasna Marga gives a different opinion than Varahamihira

> (may be due to the mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it

> was discussing various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its

> author's opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

> accurate but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

> Paulisa) are archaic in nature. " >>>

> >

> > Mr Nair never read even one page of Varaha Mihira's

> Panch-siddhaantika, that is why he says so. The above statement is a

> verbatim copy of what Varaha Mihira wrote in the initial page of

> Panch-siddhaantika, and Mr Nair imagines Varaha Mihira said something

> different !! If Prasna Marga used some ideas of Varaha Mihira , how

> those very ideas became alienated from Varaha Mihira !!!

> >

> > Without reading the siddhanta grantha of Varaha Mihira, Mr Nair says :

> " " Varahamihira saying that those calculations are not at par with

> present day planetary phenomenon " . Varaha Mihira never said so. He said

> Suryasiddhanta is most clear among all siddhantas, and made no attempt

> to change it. Mr Nair makes another wrong statement : " Why Varahamihira

> ... tried to improve it ? " He should show the verse in which Varaha

> Mihira made such alleged attempts.

> >

> > While warring with some wrong headed calendar reformers, Mr Nair makes

> another wrong statement : " Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly

> indicate that they does not borrow anything from each other. " Ptolemy's

> Almagest and Suryasiddhanta have same basic framework, on account of

> which many Western scholars say Suryasiddhanta was based upon Almagest.

> But even Burgess accepts that Suryasiddhanta lacks some improvements

> which Ptolemy brought about due to physical observation, eg second

> inequality in Moon's equation, which all Indian siddhantas lacked till

> modern age. Hence, if Suryasiddhanta is more primitive, it must be older

> than Almagest and not vice versa. Mr Nair should read Almagest,

> Suryasiddhanta , Panchsiddhantika, etc, before making careless

> statements on public forums.

> >

> > Mr Nair does not know that Burgess was the first commentator of

> Suryasiddhanta who considered beeja-samskaara not to be a part of

> Suryasiddhanta. All previous experts of Suryasiddhanta accepted

> beeja-samskaara in Suryasiddhanta, which is indicated in verse-9 of

> chapter-1 ( This verse cannot be interpreted as updating basic theory,

> but as updating beeja corrections. There were 22 shlokas of beeja

> samskaara which were updated from time to time and were appended in the

> last portion of the text. Burgess removed those verses) , and whose

> proof is the long tradition of Suryasiddhantic panchangas made from

> Suryasiddhantic Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD ; Diwakara Bhatta even

> expalined the values of beeja samskaaras used in earlier Suryasiddhantic

> tables. Mr Nair believes in Burgess in saying that " so called beeja

> corrections are not required " . Suryasiddhantic tradition required

> beeja-samskaara from earliest times, be it Panchsiddhantika of Varaha

> Mihira or

> > Siamese Tables (preserved in France) based on 7th century AD

> Suryasiddhantic tables or Makaranda Tables of 1478 AD.

> >

> > Mr Nair has no interest in testing the validity of Saurapaksha. He

> told me that he will test Kundalee only after everyone else accepts it.

> This biased attitude is based upon a psychological mindset which

> declares : " Vinay's arguments and approach (of considering Surya

> Siddhanta based planetary positions only as spiritual unrelated to

> reality than physical reality) are totally wrong.

> >

> > Mind the words " only as spiritual unrelated to reality " ! He

> means " spiritual " is " unrelated to reality " , and reality is merely

> " physical reality " . Although these materialists are younger to me, I

> never address them, including Mr Nair, with first names, as Mr Nair is

> doing. I left AIA due to abusive behaviour of Mr Nair's team, and he has

> started the same again here. Decency in personal behaviour is a part of

> spiritualism which is " unreal " to Mr Nair. Adherence to Truth and

> honesty is also related to spiritualism , which is not needed in making

> false statements like : " Varahamihira himself tells us that in the

> absence of proper updating, in the changing times many Sidhantas became

> obsolete. " Where did Varahamihira say so ? Cite the verse from his

> siddhantika. Mr Nair has no right to impose his own ideas on

> Varahamihira.

> >

> > There is no cure for prejudice , but there are many cures for false

> propaganda, which I will continue to apply. I myself believed in the

> reality of physical things, till I tested Suryasiddhanta without a bias.

> I know Mr Nair is basically a good person, but what he needs is some

> impartiality, which cannot be purchased in market and should be acquired

> through some tapasyaa.

> >

> > -VJ

> > ========= ============= =========

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@

> >

> > Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:27:56 PM

> > Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

> Jyothisha

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> > <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

> >

> > Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> > astronomy and mathematical astrology)

> >

> > Written by Sunil Nair

> >

> > Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> > astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

> part

> > of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> > mathematical astrology.

> >

> > Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

> going

> > in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> > analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

> > many.

> >

> > So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

> > Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

> and

> > even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

> > true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> > astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

> > was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> > reasons such as †"

> >

> > 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> > interacted

> >

> > 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> > the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

> >

> > The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> > preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

> > hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> > commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to name

> a

> > few.

> >

> > Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

> >

> > Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

> > branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

> Skanthas

> > are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> > considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

> >

> > Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

> > (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> > `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> > Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> > of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

> Nimitta

> > (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

> > Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

> >

> > Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> > main branches or heads.

> >

> > 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> > Ganita (calculation)

> >

> > 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> > part of Nimitta

> >

> > 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> > It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

> group

> > or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context it

> is

> > also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

> > in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

> Nature

> > and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> > natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> > related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

> >

> > Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

> > way itself.. The six Angas can be described as follows -

> >

> > 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> > rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

> >

> > 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> > and in short spherical astronomy.

> >

> > 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> > †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to

> body

> > language, events and so on.

> >

> > 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> > a qurrent

> >

> > 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> > religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> > undertaking.

> >

> > 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> > mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> > deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

> >

> > Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

> >

> > As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

> > 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

> > date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

> planets,

> > solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

> > conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> > setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

> approach

> > between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

> > skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

> mathematics

> > that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> > astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

> > etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

> > same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> > astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

> the

> > other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> > ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> > Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

> > texts.

> >

> > Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

> tantra

> > here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

> > Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

> > like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> > Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> > that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

> > is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> > something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

> > It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> > valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

> > Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

> >

> > Coming back to our subject of discussion, i..e. Ganita, an astrologer

> is

> > expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> > eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

> > and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

> > the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> > epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which

> it

> > would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

> > be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> > considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

> > orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> > elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> > beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

> > true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

> when

> > they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

> > degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

> > into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> > heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> > rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> > samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> > calculations.

> >

> > So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> > between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> > mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> > approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> > retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

> > Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> > different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

> experience as

> > seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

> >

> > Some words on Charlatans

> >

> > Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

> > about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> > ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

> > that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> > observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

> Sun

> > was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

> > and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously terming

> > it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> > modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

> horizon

> > etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

> > those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

> since

> > - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> > set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> > fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> > all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

> and

> > useless.

> >

> > So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

> scientific

> > temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> > without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

> > was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

> > minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

> > pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

> > Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

> > religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.. They

> > act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

> > truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary mission

> of

> > destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

> In

> > their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

> the

> > extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> > is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> > any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

> > not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

> > saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

> only

> > distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> > purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

> they

> > feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

> may

> > equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

> > with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

> usually

> > `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> > the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> > Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> > based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

> >

> > This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> > regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

> used

> > for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> > being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

> > everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

> knowledge

> > branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> > advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> > though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it..

> > They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> > destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

> > mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

> >

> > Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

> >

> > The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> > -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

> > Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> > Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> > acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> > including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

> > acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

> > provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> > admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> > Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

> >

> > Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> > Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta)

> is

> > accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

> Siddhanta),

> > but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

> (Brahma;

> > Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

> accurate

> > (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

> >

> > Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

> like

> > Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

> > we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> > always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> > Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating,

> in

> > the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

> > to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy of

> the

> > Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

> >

> > Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

> in

> > the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

> They

> > usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

> spreading

> > lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> > European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

> > the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> > Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

> > show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> > become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> > Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas

> of

> > that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> > that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> > phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> > generation of scholars?

> >

> > They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> > cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> > mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

> > does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> > enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> > other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

> > also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

> and

> > twisting everything.

> >

> > Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

> > such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> > clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> > treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

> Astrology

> > was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> > astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> > divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> > different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

> > ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

> originators

> > designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> > scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> > Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

> only

> > some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior

> to

> > other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> > Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> > individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

> >

> > Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> > compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> > because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> > available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> > Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

> > gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> > mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> > various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> > opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

> accurate

> > but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

> Paulisa)

> > are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> > Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> > Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

> > mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

> fact

> > that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

> > (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> > planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

> > non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

> > is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> > (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> > its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

> etc

> > †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

> > like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

> all

> > these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

> planetary

> > positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha

> is

> > true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

> not

> > the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> > arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

> > positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

> reality)

> > are totally wrong.

> >

> > The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> > Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that

> it

> > is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

> in

> > computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

> > all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

> > found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

> > and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

> century

> > (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

> after

> > 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> > further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> > known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> > observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> > explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

> position

> > of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

> > also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

> > Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

> >

> > He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> > previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> > necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

> > to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

> >

> > Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

> >

> > drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

> >

> > ganakanam santhosha pradam

> >

> > maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

> >

> > (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

> >

> > So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

> using

> > modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> > don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> > calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

> tools.

> > The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

> > laid down by ancient sages.

> >

> > [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

> > †" if any.. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

> caliber.

> > But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

> > opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

> astrologers

> > who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

> and

> > contribute for this discussions]

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Dear Shri Sunil Ji,

You have made very detailed wrire and self explanatory.

Infact what ever kundalee soft ware Mr Vinay Jha proposed can be tried and

tested.In any case predictions and analysis are individual's efforts based on

understanding of GRahachara.

regards

vrkrishnan

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

Jyothisha

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009, 1:06 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dear Krishnan ji

 

namaskar

 

thanks for ur good words and blessing

 

with regrds sunil nair

 

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99@. ..>

wrote:

>

> Â

> Dear Sunil ji

> very explicit and meaningful eloberation. thanx a lot.God bless

> vrkrishnan

> --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

>

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

Jyothisha

>

> Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

>

>

>

ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> astronomy and mathematical astrology)

>

> Written by Sunil Nair

>

> Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

part

> of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> mathematical astrology.

>

> Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

going

> in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised by

> many.

>

> So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against what

> Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

and

> even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to be

> true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition. Kerala

> was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> reasons such as †"

>

> 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> interacted

>

> 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

>

> The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi , Kaikulanagara

> hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to name

a

> few.

>

> Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

>

> Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads; major

> branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

Skanthas

> are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

>

> Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6 Angas

> (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

Nimitta

> (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology) and

> Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

>

> Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> main branches or heads.

>

> 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> Ganita (calculation)

>

> 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> part of Nimitta

>

> 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

group

> or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context it

is

> also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology, Changes

> in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

Nature

> and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora skanta.

>

> Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in this

> way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

>

> 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

>

> 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> and in short spherical astronomy.

>

> 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens related to

body

> language, events and so on.

>

> 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> a qurrent

>

> 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> undertaking.

>

> 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

>

> Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

>

> As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed in

> 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali era

> date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

planets,

> solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha), Lunar

> conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

approach

> between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e. Ganita

> skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

mathematics

> that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression, combustions

> etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of the

> same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

the

> other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of Ganita

> texts.

>

> Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

tantra

> here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been originated.

> Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama sastra

> like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra. It

> is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> something for theoretical discussion without any practical usefulness.

> It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch of

> Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

>

> Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer

is

> expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of planets

> and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina is

> the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position which

it

> would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections to

> be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that the

> orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get the

> true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

when

> they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than one

> degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can enter

> into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> calculations.

>

> So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia texts.

> Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

experience as

> seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

>

> Some words on Charlatans

>

> Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may speak

> about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other things

> that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

Sun

> was the center of solar system, there calculations were well grounded

> and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously terming

> it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

horizon

> etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is only

> those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

since

> - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

and

> useless.

>

> So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

scientific

> temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that I

> was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These corrupted

> minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down Hindu

> pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and converting

> Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science or

> religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments. They

> act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand for

> truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary mission

of

> destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

In

> their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

the

> extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas are

> not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered, because

> saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

only

> distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

they

> feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

may

> equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra, Nakshatra

> with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

usually

> `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

>

> This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

used

> for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit of

> everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

knowledge

> branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

> They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a protective

> mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

>

> Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

>

> The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara, Kasyapa,

> Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these 18

> acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia traditions

> provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

>

> Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa Siddhanta)

is

> accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

Siddhanta),

> but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

(Brahma;

> Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

accurate

> (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

>

> Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

like

> Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate and

> we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper updating,

in

> the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent advice

> to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy of

the

> Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

>

> Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

in

> the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

They

> usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

spreading

> lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed towards

> the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it not

> show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available siddhantas

of

> that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> generation of scholars?

>

> They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that they

> does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim, and

> also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

and

> twisting everything.

>

> Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy claims

> such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

Astrology

> was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi Kulas

> ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

originators

> designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

only

> some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is superior

to

> other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

>

> Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna Marga

> gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

accurate

> but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

Paulisa)

> are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta (astrologia

> mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

fact

> that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual position

> (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with some

> non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as it

> is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

etc

> †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological Sidhantas

> like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

all

> these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

planetary

> positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay Jha

is

> true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

not

> the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based planetary

> positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

reality)

> are totally wrong.

>

> The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means that

it

> is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

in

> computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses and

> all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is again

> found that even those calculations are differing from actual positions

> and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

century

> (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

after

> 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

position

> of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is otherwise

> also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known as

> Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

>

> He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary only

> to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

>

> Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

>

> drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

>

> ganakanam santhosha pradam

>

> maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

>

> (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

>

> So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

using

> modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

tools.

> The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive principles

> laid down by ancient sages.

>

> [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this article

> †" if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

caliber.

> But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites scholarly

> opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

astrologers

> who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

and

> contribute for this discussions]

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

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dear shri krishnan ji

 

sure ,i wrote what i know and we hindu s follow our traditions and

paramparas and also what we find true frm our exprnces .

 

I know shri vinay shah ji personalay and i hav seen his brahma tejas in

him and i hav no reason to doubt his authenticity or sincerity ,tho he

got upset with me with the way i deal the mails in a famous grp

,it is my limitations and there is so many other moderaters also there

and it need not b i am passing all mails and being a democratic forum i

hav limitations too .

 

shri prashanth ji knows it and here atleast he is blessed with he is the

only person who decides everything but i hav to cater to needs of

various persons and even at times we dont know who is who when they

appear first time in grp and their real intentions .

 

 

 

so as regrds to sidhanthas either suara paksha has to b correct or its

modified (or like vinay shah ji says corrupted /misunderstood )version

called drik paksha is correct ,not both.

 

here even we cannot escape by saying famous upanishath mantra

 

 

 

ekam sath vipra bahuda vadanthi ( scholars says diffrnt things but the

truth is one )

 

we shud find what is true and shud accept it also

 

 

 

i suggest shri vinay shaji to charge some money for this SW and make it

more consumr frndly and distribute like gr8 jhora software ( or find a

sponsor )

 

he need only to include money which he spends for this SW ( just cover

the expenses ) so ppl like us can dowload it and test it

 

and i also suggest him to take up few cases and explain us one by one or

by his written articles uploading in this grps ( it has to show the

positions of planets /lagna and other specification independ ly with

dgrees than link to his SW as those who un able to download his SW

cannot understand it )

 

 

 

we r not against or has no personal prejudices against a purticular

person and i blv the spark of jupiter in a person ( that is wat we call

gurutwa In our language ) should b respected .

 

We indians never executed or burned any one even if they r saying some

thing diffrnt than popular or major views ,so we hav charvakas ,samkhyas

,budhists and jains and hindus and they liv here in this karma bhoomi

peacefully too .

 

 

 

we r only against those who came to disturb the sanctity of astrology by

learning it few months and attack or critisise gurus or elder persons or

acting as big maha gurus .

 

sure we hav diffrnt views and some times we resort to a tough language

also when arguing depnding on mood of persons but all this has to b

forgiv and forget in the name of astro -fraternity

 

 

 

with most personal regrds

 

 

 

rgrds sunil nair

 

 

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99

wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sunil Ji,

> You have made very detailed wrire and self explanatory.

> Infact what ever kundalee soft ware Mr Vinay Jha proposed can be tried

and tested.In any case predictions and analysis are individual's efforts

based on understanding of GRahachara.

> regards

> vrkrishnan

> --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala

> Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history

of Jyothisha

>

> Saturday, April 25, 2009, 1:06 PM

>

>

>

>

dear Krishnan ji

>

> namaskar

>

> thanks for ur good words and blessing

>

> with regrds sunil nair

>

> , vattem krishnan bursar_99@

...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Sunil ji

> > very explicit and meaningful eloberation. thanx a lot.God bless

> > vrkrishnan

> > --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

> >

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> > Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

> Jyothisha

> >

> > Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> > <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

> >

> > Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> > astronomy and mathematical astrology)

> >

> > Written by Sunil Nair

> >

> > Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> > astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

> part

> > of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> > mathematical astrology.

> >

> > Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

> going

> > in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> > analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised

by

> > many.

> >

> > So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against

what

> > Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

> and

> > even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to

be

> > true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> > astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition.

Kerala

> > was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> > reasons such as †"

> >

> > 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> > interacted

> >

> > 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> > the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

> >

> > The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> > preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi ,

Kaikulanagara

> > hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> > commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to

name

> a

> > few.

> >

> > Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

> >

> > Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads;

major

> > branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

> Skanthas

> > are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> > considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

> >

> > Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6

Angas

> > (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> > `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> > Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> > of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

> Nimitta

> > (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology)

and

> > Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

> >

> > Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> > main branches or heads.

> >

> > 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> > Ganita (calculation)

> >

> > 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> > part of Nimitta

> >

> > 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> > It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

> group

> > or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context

it

> is

> > also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology,

Changes

> > in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

> Nature

> > and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> > natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> > related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora

skanta.

> >

> > Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in

this

> > way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

> >

> > 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> > rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

> >

> > 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> > and in short spherical astronomy.

> >

> > 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> > †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens

related to

> body

> > language, events and so on.

> >

> > 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> > a qurrent

> >

> > 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> > religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> > undertaking.

> >

> > 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> > mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> > deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

> >

> > Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

> >

> > As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed

in

> > 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali

era

> > date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

> planets,

> > solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha),

Lunar

> > conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> > setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

> approach

> > between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e.

Ganita

> > skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

> mathematics

> > that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> > astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression,

combustions

> > etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of

the

> > same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> > astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

> the

> > other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> > ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> > Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of

Ganita

> > texts.

> >

> > Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

> tantra

> > here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been

originated.

> > Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama

sastra

> > like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> > Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> > that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra.

It

> > is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> > something for theoretical discussion without any practical

usefulness.

> > It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> > valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch

of

> > Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

> >

> > Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer

> is

> > expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> > eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of

planets

> > and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina

is

> > the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> > epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position

which

> it

> > would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections

to

> > be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> > considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that

the

> > orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> > elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> > beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get

the

> > true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

> when

> > they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than

one

> > degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can

enter

> > into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> > heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> > rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> > samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> > calculations.

> >

> > So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> > between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> > mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> > approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> > retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia

texts.

> > Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> > different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

> experience as

> > seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

> >

> > Some words on Charlatans

> >

> > Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may

speak

> > about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> > ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other

things

> > that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> > observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

> Sun

> > was the center of solar system, there calculations were well

grounded

> > and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously

terming

> > it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> > modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

> horizon

> > etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is

only

> > those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

> since

> > - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> > set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> > fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> > all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

> and

> > useless.

> >

> > So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

> scientific

> > temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> > without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that

I

> > was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These

corrupted

> > minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down

Hindu

> > pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and

converting

> > Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science

or

> > religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.

They

> > act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand

for

> > truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary

mission

> of

> > destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

> In

> > their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

> the

> > extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> > is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> > any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas

are

> > not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered,

because

> > saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

> only

> > distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> > purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

> they

> > feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

> may

> > equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra,

Nakshatra

> > with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

> usually

> > `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> > the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> > Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> > based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

> >

> > This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> > regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

> used

> > for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> > being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit

of

> > everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

> knowledge

> > branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> > advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> > though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

> > They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> > destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a

protective

> > mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

> >

> > Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

> >

> > The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> > -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara,

Kasyapa,

> > Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> > Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> > acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> > including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these

18

> > acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia

traditions

> > provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> > admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> > Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

> >

> > Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> > Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa

Siddhanta)

> is

> > accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

> Siddhanta),

> > but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

> (Brahma;

> > Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

> accurate

> > (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

> >

> > Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

> like

> > Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate

and

> > we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> > always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> > Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper

updating,

> in

> > the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent

advice

> > to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy

of

> the

> > Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

> >

> > Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

> in

> > the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

> They

> > usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

> spreading

> > lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> > European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed

towards

> > the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> > Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it

not

> > show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> > become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> > Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available

siddhantas

> of

> > that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> > that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> > phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> > generation of scholars?

> >

> > They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> > cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> > mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that

they

> > does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> > enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> > other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim,

and

> > also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

> and

> > twisting everything.

> >

> > Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy

claims

> > such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> > clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> > treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

> Astrology

> > was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> > astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> > divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> > different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi

Kulas

> > ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

> originators

> > designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> > scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> > Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

> only

> > some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is

superior

> to

> > other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> > Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> > individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

> >

> > Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> > compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> > because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> > available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> > Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna

Marga

> > gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> > mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> > various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> > opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

> accurate

> > but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

> Paulisa)

> > are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> > Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> > Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta

(astrologia

> > mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

> fact

> > that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual

position

> > (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> > planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with

some

> > non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as

it

> > is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> > (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> > its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

> etc

> > †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological

Sidhantas

> > like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

> all

> > these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

> planetary

> > positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay

Jha

> is

> > true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

> not

> > the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> > arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based

planetary

> > positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

> reality)

> > are totally wrong.

> >

> > The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> > Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means

that

> it

> > is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

> in

> > computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses

and

> > all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is

again

> > found that even those calculations are differing from actual

positions

> > and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

> century

> > (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

> after

> > 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> > further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> > known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> > observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> > explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

> position

> > of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is

otherwise

> > also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known

as

> > Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

> >

> > He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> > previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> > necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary

only

> > to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

> >

> > Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

> >

> > drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

> >

> > ganakanam santhosha pradam

> >

> > maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

> >

> > (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

> >

> > So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

> using

> > modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> > don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> > calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

> tools.

> > The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive

principles

> > laid down by ancient sages.

> >

> > [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this

article

> > †" if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

> caliber.

> > But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites

scholarly

> > opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

> astrologers

> > who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

> and

> > contribute for this discussions]

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Mr Sunil Nair says : " either suara paksha has to b correct or its modified (or

like vinay shah ji says corrupted /misunderstood )version

called drik paksha is correct ,not both. "

 

He has misunderstood me. Drik-paksha is not a modified or corrupt version of

Saura-paksha. Both are equally true and valid aspects of same basic theory.

Drikpaksha is for physical world (bhooloka) open to sense perception of mortals.

Saurapaksha is about Bhuvaloka which cannot be directly perceived sensorily

without tapasyaa as Mayaasura performed. It is useless to prove or disprove the

existence of deities like Suryadeva or Chandradeva in Bhuvaloka by means of

rhetoric. The only proof is astrological testing.

 

For developing a software for all platforms will need all platforms on all sorts

of computers in my room, with all experts of all those platforms. And even after

such a all-platform is perfected, some new version of Gates or Windows or

Ventilators will arrive which will call this whole exercize once again. I

renounced my ancestral paternal properties long ago, why should I become a

grihastha again for a purpose which will not help in my own salvation ? I

cannot charge money for my astrological works, it is forbidden for a monk.

Anyone else will not invest unless he / she is assured about returns. I got such

a sponsor long ago, but he wanted a heavy price (Rs 2000 - 4000) for each CD,

which I rejected. He later tried to sell Kundalee on a limited scale

clandestinely, for fear of action from me.

 

I tested my software on Win98 and all service packs of WinXP. An overwhelming

majority of users have these OS. Out of 355 downloads in past 3 days, onlt 7

have complained about installation problem, and all these problems are related

to version difference or difference in settings like location of TEMP folder,

which is to be corrected by the user. I am trying to find out why these problems

occur.

 

I made many case studies, but Mr Sunil Nair and his friends wasted my time over

historical debates and refused to read the case studies at my website, eg

Prediction of Death, Brain Damage, etc. I will put more case studies there.

 

Sunil Nair is unable to check his offensive language. He mixes praises with

abuses. He finds the spark of Jupiter in me (not knowing that my Jupiter is in

moolatrikona) but adds : " we r only against those who came to disturb the

sanctity of astrology by learning it few months and attack or critisise gurus or

elder persons or acting as big maha gurus ...sure we hav diffrnt views and some

times we resort to a tough language also when arguing depnding on mood of

persons but all this has to b forgiv and forget in the name of astro

-fraternity " .

 

It is a false charge on me. Mr Sreenadh is unrepentent for his abuses. I

forgave and forsook his group. What else I am expected to do ?

 

-VJ

 

=============== =============

 

 

________________________________

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

 

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:28:25 AM

Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

Jyothisha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dear shri krishnan ji

 

sure ,i wrote what i know and we hindu s follow our traditions and

paramparas and also what we find true frm our exprnces .

 

I know shri vinay shah ji personalay and i hav seen his brahma tejas in

him and i hav no reason to doubt his authenticity or sincerity ,tho he

got upset with me with the way i deal the mails in a famous grp

,it is my limitations and there is so many other moderaters also there

and it need not b i am passing all mails and being a democratic forum i

hav limitations too .

 

shri prashanth ji knows it and here atleast he is blessed with he is the

only person who decides everything but i hav to cater to needs of

various persons and even at times we dont know who is who when they

appear first time in grp and their real intentions .

 

so as regrds to sidhanthas either suara paksha has to b correct or its

modified (or like vinay shah ji says corrupted /misunderstood )version

called drik paksha is correct ,not both.

 

here even we cannot escape by saying famous upanishath mantra

 

ekam sath vipra bahuda vadanthi ( scholars says diffrnt things but the

truth is one )

 

we shud find what is true and shud accept it also

 

i suggest shri vinay shaji to charge some money for this SW and make it

more consumr frndly and distribute like gr8 jhora software ( or find a

sponsor )

 

he need only to include money which he spends for this SW ( just cover

the expenses ) so ppl like us can dowload it and test it

 

and i also suggest him to take up few cases and explain us one by one or

by his written articles uploading in this grps ( it has to show the

positions of planets /lagna and other specification independ ly with

dgrees than link to his SW as those who un able to download his SW

cannot understand it )

 

we r not against or has no personal prejudices against a purticular

person and i blv the spark of jupiter in a person ( that is wat we call

gurutwa In our language ) should b respected .

 

We indians never executed or burned any one even if they r saying some

thing diffrnt than popular or major views ,so we hav charvakas ,samkhyas

,budhists and jains and hindus and they liv here in this karma bhoomi

peacefully too .

 

we r only against those who came to disturb the sanctity of astrology by

learning it few months and attack or critisise gurus or elder persons or

acting as big maha gurus .

 

sure we hav diffrnt views and some times we resort to a tough language

also when arguing depnding on mood of persons but all this has to b

forgiv and forget in the name of astro -fraternity

 

with most personal regrds

 

rgrds sunil nair

 

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99@. ..>

wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sunil Ji,

> You have made very detailed wrire and self explanatory.

> Infact what ever kundalee soft ware Mr Vinay Jha proposed can be tried

and tested.In any case predictions and analysis are individual's efforts

based on understanding of GRahachara.

> regards

> vrkrishnan

> --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

>

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history

of Jyothisha

>

> Saturday, April 25, 2009, 1:06 PM

>

>

>

>

dear Krishnan ji

>

> namaskar

>

> thanks for ur good words and blessing

>

> with regrds sunil nair

>

> , vattem krishnan bursar_99@

...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Sunil ji

> > very explicit and meaningful eloberation. thanx a lot.God bless

> > vrkrishnan

> > --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

> >

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> > Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history of

> Jyothisha

> >

> > Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> > <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

> >

> > Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> > astronomy and mathematical astrology)

> >

> > Written by Sunil Nair

> >

> > Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> > astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

> part

> > of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> > mathematical astrology.

> >

> > Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

> going

> > in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> > analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised

by

> > many.

> >

> > So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against

what

> > Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions, suggestions

> and

> > even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought to

be

> > true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> > astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition.

Kerala

> > was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> > reasons such as †"

> >

> > 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> > interacted

> >

> > 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> > the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

> >

> > The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> > preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi ,

Kaikulanagara

> > hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> > commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc †" to

name

> a

> > few.

> >

> > Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

> >

> > Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads;

major

> > branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

> Skanthas

> > are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> > considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

> >

> > Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6

Angas

> > (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> > `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> > Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> > of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

> Nimitta

> > (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology)

and

> > Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

> >

> > Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> > main branches or heads.

> >

> > 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> > Ganita (calculation)

> >

> > 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> > part of Nimitta

> >

> > 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> > It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

> group

> > or particular geographical location etc ) †" in this context

it

> is

> > also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology,

Changes

> > in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and plants,

> Nature

> > and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all wonderful

> > natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> > related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora

skanta.

> >

> > Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in

this

> > way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

> >

> > 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> > rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary position

> >

> > 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> > and in short spherical astronomy.

> >

> > 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala Lakshana)

> > †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time, omens

related to

> body

> > language, events and so on.

> >

> > 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> > a qurrent

> >

> > 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for success in

> > religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> > undertaking.

> >

> > 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> > mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> > deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

> >

> > Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

> >

> > As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well versed

in

> > 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali

era

> > date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

> planets,

> > solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha),

Lunar

> > conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings and

> > setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

> approach

> > between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e.

Ganita

> > skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in astrologia

> mathematics

> > that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> > astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression,

combustions

> > etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of

the

> > same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> > astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one or

> the

> > other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> > ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> > Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of

Ganita

> > texts.

> >

> > Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

> tantra

> > here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been

originated.

> > Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama

sastra

> > like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and alike.

> > Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> > that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all Tantra.

It

> > is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> > something for theoretical discussion without any practical

usefulness.

> > It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> > valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient branch

of

> > Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

> >

> > Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an astrologer

> is

> > expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of calculating

> > eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of

planets

> > and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina

is

> > the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to the

> > epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position

which

> it

> > would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the corrections

to

> > be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> > considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that

the

> > orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits are

> > elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections called

> > beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get

the

> > true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha Yuddha

> when

> > they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than

one

> > degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can

enter

> > into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> > heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> > rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> > samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more elaborate

> > calculations.

> >

> > So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> > between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> > mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations and

> > approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> > retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia

texts.

> > Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from a

> > different angle †" the deal with what we see, observe,

> experience as

> > seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

> >

> > Some words on Charlatans

> >

> > Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may

speak

> > about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> > ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other

things

> > that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> > observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well that

> Sun

> > was the center of solar system, there calculations were well

grounded

> > and was given `as observed from earth' †" erroneously

terming

> > it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> > modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

> horizon

> > etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is

only

> > those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

> since

> > - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> > set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> > fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> > all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is bogus

> and

> > useless.

> >

> > So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

> scientific

> > temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> > without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming that

I

> > was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These

corrupted

> > minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down

Hindu

> > pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and

converting

> > Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science

or

> > religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.

They

> > act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand

for

> > truth †" while in truth they are into their missionary

mission

> of

> > destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as astrologia.

> In

> > their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes to

> the

> > extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that `it

> > is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> > any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas

are

> > not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered,

because

> > saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention †" but

> only

> > distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With this

> > purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

> they

> > feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So they

> may

> > equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra,

Nakshatra

> > with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

> usually

> > `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> > the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> > Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper tradition

> > based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

> >

> > This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> > regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should be

> used

> > for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> > being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the benefit

of

> > everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

> knowledge

> > branches and even astronomical calculations which are available with

> > advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose - even

> > though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using it.

> > They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there to

> > destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a

protective

> > mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

> >

> > Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

> >

> > The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> > -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara,

Kasyapa,

> > Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> > Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> > acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> > including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of these

18

> > acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia

traditions

> > provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> > admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> > Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

> >

> > Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> > Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa

Siddhanta)

> is

> > accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

> Siddhanta),

> > but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

> (Brahma;

> > Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

> accurate

> > (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

> >

> > Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

> like

> > Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate

and

> > we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> > always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> > Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper

updating,

> in

> > the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent

advice

> > to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and accuracy

of

> the

> > Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

> >

> > Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) , who

> in

> > the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

> They

> > usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

> spreading

> > lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or even

> > European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed

towards

> > the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and Brhama

> > Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it

not

> > show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time Sidhantas

> > become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> > Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available

siddhantas

> of

> > that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> > that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> > phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by successive

> > generation of scholars?

> >

> > They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> > cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and separately

> > mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that

they

> > does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> > enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came from

> > other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim,

and

> > also that that these people are only interested in distorting facts

> and

> > twisting everything.

> >

> > Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy

claims

> > such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it is

> > clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> > treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

> Astrology

> > was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness. If

> > astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual and

> > divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas from

> > different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi

Kulas

> > ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

> originators

> > designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> > scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> > Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

> only

> > some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is

superior

> to

> > other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that all

> > Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> > individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

> >

> > Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> > compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> > because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> > available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while Pancha

> > Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna

Marga

> > gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> > mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> > various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> > opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

> accurate

> > but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

> Paulisa)

> > are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata, Bhaskara,

> > Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> > Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta

(astrologia

> > mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

> fact

> > that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual

position

> > (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi Navagrahas (9

> > planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with

some

> > non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable as

it

> > is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> > (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods and

> > its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse happening

> etc

> > †" all these doesn't make sense if the astrological

Sidhantas

> > like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets. So

> all

> > these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

> planetary

> > positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not (would Vinay

Jha

> is

> > true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This is

> not

> > the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> > arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based

planetary

> > positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

> reality)

> > are totally wrong.

> >

> > The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> > Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means

that

> it

> > is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely used

> in

> > computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses

and

> > all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is

again

> > found that even those calculations are differing from actual

positions

> > and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

> century

> > (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

> after

> > 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> > further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to be

> > known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> > observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam which

> > explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

> position

> > of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is

otherwise

> > also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is known

as

> > Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

> >

> > He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened in

> > previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must and

> > necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary

only

> > to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

> >

> > Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

> >

> > drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

> >

> > ganakanam santhosha pradam

> >

> > maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

> >

> > (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

> >

> > So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

> using

> > modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> > don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind of

> > calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

> tools.

> > The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive

principles

> > laid down by ancient sages.

> >

> > [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this

article

> > †" if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my capacity and

> caliber.

> > But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites

scholarly

> > opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

> astrologers

> > who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may join

> and

> > contribute for this discussions]

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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dear vinaysha ji

 

 

 

in last post i never said any words against u ,all other words were i

was talking in general sense and was refering to so many past incidents

which i was one party in many hot discussions .

 

the saura paksha and drik paksha i mean in astronomical sense and

which shud b used in delinating results in chart reading and i never

said one is true or other is wrong .

 

 

 

i am not interested in khandana prathi gandhana or vada or prati vada

and quotes on the subjuct and then refuting or establishing , which is

beyond my capacity as this days sidhanthas are not learned by almost all

astrologers and they hav faith or blf in panchanga makers and Their own

SW and the luggage of astronomical aspect of making chart they hav put

on their shoulder .

 

 

 

so i request u to re read the post

 

 

 

i never said u dont hav blessing of jupiter or i am any way gr8er than

rest of crowd or i hav gr8 powers .

 

 

 

pls do understand my forte and usual business is astrology in predictiv

sense

 

 

 

so i am not interested in arguemnts and i am interested only in

astrological testing of any thing ,also i am not answerable why others

dont do it

 

 

 

rgrds sunilnair

 

 

 

pls i am not interested to continue this tread and where as i hav

promised for many write ups / article s (even when when i came to

seminar in varanasi i was sick and on medicatiion ) and i need my own

time and i am still weak too

 

i was just answering to resp krishnan ji in the last post

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

wrote:

>

> Mr Sunil Nair says : " either suara paksha has to b correct or its

modified (or like vinay shah ji says corrupted /misunderstood )version

> called drik paksha is correct ,not both. "

>

> He has misunderstood me. Drik-paksha is not a modified or corrupt

version of Saura-paksha. Both are equally true and valid aspects of same

basic theory. Drikpaksha is for physical world (bhooloka) open to sense

perception of mortals. Saurapaksha is about Bhuvaloka which cannot be

directly perceived sensorily without tapasyaa as Mayaasura performed. It

is useless to prove or disprove the existence of deities like Suryadeva

or Chandradeva in Bhuvaloka by means of rhetoric. The only proof is

astrological testing.

>

> For developing a software for all platforms will need all platforms on

all sorts of computers in my room, with all experts of all those

platforms. And even after such a all-platform is perfected, some new

version of Gates or Windows or Ventilators will arrive which will call

this whole exercize once again. I renounced my ancestral paternal

properties long ago, why should I become a grihastha again for a purpose

which will not help in my own salvation ? I cannot charge money for my

astrological works, it is forbidden for a monk. Anyone else will not

invest unless he / she is assured about returns. I got such a sponsor

long ago, but he wanted a heavy price (Rs 2000 - 4000) for each CD,

which I rejected. He later tried to sell Kundalee on a limited scale

clandestinely, for fear of action from me.

>

> I tested my software on Win98 and all service packs of WinXP. An

overwhelming majority of users have these OS. Out of 355 downloads in

past 3 days, onlt 7 have complained about installation problem, and all

these problems are related to version difference or difference in

settings like location of TEMP folder, which is to be corrected by the

user. I am trying to find out why these problems occur.

>

> I made many case studies, but Mr Sunil Nair and his friends wasted my

time over historical debates and refused to read the case studies at my

website, eg Prediction of Death, Brain Damage, etc. I will put more case

studies there.

>

> Sunil Nair is unable to check his offensive language. He mixes praises

with abuses. He finds the spark of Jupiter in me (not knowing that my

Jupiter is in moolatrikona) but adds : " we r only against those who came

to disturb the sanctity of astrology by learning it few months and

attack or critisise gurus or elder persons or acting as big maha gurus

....sure we hav diffrnt views and some times we resort to a tough

language also when arguing depnding on mood of persons but all this has

to b forgiv and forget in the name of astro -fraternity " .

>

> It is a false charge on me. Mr Sreenadh is unrepentent for his abuses.

I forgave and forsook his group. What else I am expected to do ?

>

> -VJ

>

> =============== =============

>

>

> ________________________________

> sunil nair astro_tellerkerala

>

> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:28:25 AM

> Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history

of Jyothisha

>

dear shri krishnan ji

>

> sure ,i wrote what i know and we hindu s follow our traditions and

> paramparas and also what we find true frm our exprnces .

>

> I know shri vinay shah ji personalay and i hav seen his brahma tejas

in

> him and i hav no reason to doubt his authenticity or sincerity ,tho he

> got upset with me with the way i deal the mails in a famous grp

> ,it is my limitations and there is so many other moderaters also there

> and it need not b i am passing all mails and being a democratic forum

i

> hav limitations too .

>

> shri prashanth ji knows it and here atleast he is blessed with he is

the

> only person who decides everything but i hav to cater to needs of

> various persons and even at times we dont know who is who when they

> appear first time in grp and their real intentions .

>

> so as regrds to sidhanthas either suara paksha has to b correct or its

> modified (or like vinay shah ji says corrupted /misunderstood )version

> called drik paksha is correct ,not both.

>

> here even we cannot escape by saying famous upanishath mantra

>

> ekam sath vipra bahuda vadanthi ( scholars says diffrnt things but the

> truth is one )

>

> we shud find what is true and shud accept it also

>

> i suggest shri vinay shaji to charge some money for this SW and make

it

> more consumr frndly and distribute like gr8 jhora software ( or find a

> sponsor )

>

> he need only to include money which he spends for this SW ( just cover

> the expenses ) so ppl like us can dowload it and test it

>

> and i also suggest him to take up few cases and explain us one by one

or

> by his written articles uploading in this grps ( it has to show the

> positions of planets /lagna and other specification independ ly with

> dgrees than link to his SW as those who un able to download his SW

> cannot understand it )

>

> we r not against or has no personal prejudices against a purticular

> person and i blv the spark of jupiter in a person ( that is wat we

call

> gurutwa In our language ) should b respected .

>

> We indians never executed or burned any one even if they r saying some

> thing diffrnt than popular or major views ,so we hav charvakas

,samkhyas

> ,budhists and jains and hindus and they liv here in this karma bhoomi

> peacefully too .

>

> we r only against those who came to disturb the sanctity of astrology

by

> learning it few months and attack or critisise gurus or elder persons

or

> acting as big maha gurus .

>

> sure we hav diffrnt views and some times we resort to a tough language

> also when arguing depnding on mood of persons but all this has to b

> forgiv and forget in the name of astro -fraternity

>

> with most personal regrds

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

> , vattem krishnan bursar_99@

...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sunil Ji,

> > You have made very detailed wrire and self explanatory.

> > Infact what ever kundalee soft ware Mr Vinay Jha proposed can be

tried

> and tested.In any case predictions and analysis are individual's

efforts

> based on understanding of GRahachara.

> > regards

> > vrkrishnan

> > --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

> >

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> > Re: Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history

> of Jyothisha

> >

> > Saturday, April 25, 2009, 1:06 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > dear Krishnan ji

> >

> > namaskar

> >

> > thanks for ur good words and blessing

> >

> > with regrds sunil nair

> >

> > , vattem krishnan

bursar_99@

> ..>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Dear Sunil ji

> > > very explicit and meaningful eloberation. thanx a lot.God bless

> > > vrkrishnan

> > > --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ... wrote:

> > >

> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...

> > > Fwd: Sidhantas in astrology-An enquiry tru history

of

> > Jyothisha

> > >

> > > Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:57 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> > > <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

> > >

> > > Sidhantas in astrology --(Astrologia Mathematics: Mathematical

> > > astronomy and mathematical astrology)

> > >

> > > Written by Sunil Nair

> > >

> > > Astrologia means Jyotisastra which includes both astronomy and

> > > astrology. Similarly the word Siddhanta refers to the mathematical

> > part

> > > of astrologia which includes both mathematical astronomy and

> > > mathematical astrology.

> > >

> > > Here I would discuss about various Sidhantas in astrologia without

> > going

> > > in much technical details (due to my inability for such a detailed

> > > analysis, but still) trying to find answer to the questions raised

> by

> > > many.

> > >

> > > So bear with me if anything is wrong in concept and it is against

> what

> > > Rishis taught us, but I invite learned members opinions,

suggestions

> > and

> > > even explanation what it may be true than what I know or thought

to

> be

> > > true. I am basing myself only Kerala texts. This is because the

> > > astrology I learned and use mainly belong to Kerala tradition.

> Kerala

> > > was able to preserve many astrologia texts due to two contrasting

> > > reasons such as †"

> > >

> > > 1) due to its geographical specialty of isolation and same time

> > > interacted

> > >

> > > 2) Since it interacted with all races in world and even retained

> > > the purity irrespective of being host to all religions in world.

> > >

> > > The uniqueness of Kerala astrological wisdom and the knowledge it

> > > preserved is evident from texts like, Like Dasadhyayi ,

> Kaikulanagara

> > > hora, Prashna Anushtana Padhati, Prashna Marga, Uparatna sikha a

> > > commentary by Punnasseri Nambi for Prashna Maarga etc

†" to

> name

> > a

> > > few.

> > >

> > > Mathematical part of astrological astronomy

> > >

> > > Ancient astrological science is divided into 3 Skanthas (heads;

> major

> > > branches) and further into 6 Angas (limbs; sub branches). The 3

> > Skanthas

> > > are Ganita, Samhita and hora. Rishis who wrote about all this is

> > > considered as Jyotisha acharyas (teachers of astrologia).

> > >

> > > Ancient sages classified this great Sastra of astrologia into 6

> Angas

> > > (sub-branches or parts). The definition of the word `sastra' is

> > > `sasyate ithi sastra' meaning `the one which advices'.

> > > Thus sastra means `authentic ancient advice'. The 6 sub-branches

> > > of astrology are Jataka (horoscopy), Gola (spherical astronomy),

> > Nimitta

> > > (omens), Prasna (horary astrology), Muhurta (electional astrology)

> and

> > > Ganita (mathematical part of astrologia).

> > >

> > > Let us see how these sub-branches or parts get integrated into the

> > > main branches or heads.

> > >

> > > 1) Ganita skanta is composed of Gola (spherical astronomy) and

> > > Ganita (calculation)

> > >

> > > 2) Hora skanta is composed of Horoscopy, Prasna, Muhurta, and some

> > > part of Nimitta

> > >

> > > 3) Samhita skanta is composed of elaborate discussion of Nimitta.

> > > It a also deals with the varying fortunes of people (of a nation,

> > group

> > > or particular geographical location etc ) †" in

this context

> it

> > is

> > > also known by the name Medini astrologia or Mundane astrology,

> Changes

> > > in weather, Growth-diseases- treatment- cure of animals and

plants,

> > Nature

> > > and shapes of meteors-shooting stars etc, and in short all

wonderful

> > > natural phenomena. Samhita is a `collection' of everything

> > > related to astrologia that is not dealt within Ganita and Hora

> skanta.

> > >

> > > Majority of acharyas accept and deals with this classification in

> this

> > > way itself. The six Angas can be described as follows -

> > >

> > > 1) Jataka - deals with predictions to be made on the basis of

> > > rising sign at the time of birth and the related planetary

position

> > >

> > > 2) Gola - deals with planetary system, their nature, peculiarities

> > > and in short spherical astronomy.

> > >

> > > 3) Nimitta †" deals with temporary omens (Tatkala

Lakshana)

> > > †" mainly omens obtaining at a particular time,

omens

> related to

> > body

> > > language, events and so on.

> > >

> > > 4) Prasna - forecasting methods based upon the questions raised by

> > > a qurrent

> > >

> > > 5) Muhurta †" selection of auspicious time for

success in

> > > religious /spiritual, social, secular, material or in short any

> > > undertaking.

> > >

> > > 6) Ganita (astrologia mathematics) - mathematical astronomy or

> > > mathematical astrology. `Sidhantas' are astrologia texts that

> > > deal with Ganita Skanta of astrologia.

> > >

> > > Ganita: Astrologia Mathematics

> > >

> > > As per Prasna Marga, the efficient astrologer should be well

versed

> in

> > > 10 kinds of calculations such as calculation of - Kali Dina (Kali

> era

> > > date calculations) , mean position of planets, true position of

> > planets,

> > > solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, planetary fights (Graha Yudha),

> Lunar

> > > conjunctions (samagama), combustion (Maudhya), Heliacal risings

and

> > > setting of various planets. Thus we can infer the difference of

> > approach

> > > between the modern mathematics and astrologia mathematics (i.e.

> Ganita

> > > skanta) †" there are numerous ideas present in

astrologia

> > mathematics

> > > that are not present or used, or considered unscientific by modern

> > > astronomy. In modern astronomy there is no retrogression,

> combustions

> > > etc but in the astrologia mathematical context the calculation of

> the

> > > same is unavoidable since it is much useful and required for the

> > > astrology. There are numerous texts available which deal with one

or

> > the

> > > other section of Ganita branch. To name a few - Surya Siddhanta

> > > ,Siddhanta Siromany, Siddhanta Tatva Vivekam, Graha Laghavam,

> > > Leelavathi, Pancha Sidhantika, Aryabhatiya are all examples of

> Ganita

> > > texts.

> > >

> > > Ganita is other wise known as Tantra skanta (note the use of word

> > tantra

> > > here). It also shows where all this concepts may have been

> originated.

> > > Other wise too astrology is generally known as Agamic or Agama

> sastra

> > > like Temple tantra (worship), Vastu Tantra (architecture) and

alike.

> > > Tantra means `technique' with a practical usefulness. It is this

> > > that makes Ganita, Astrology, Vastu, Temple worship etc all

Tantra.

> It

> > > is a system to be learned and applied (used, practiced), not just

> > > something for theoretical discussion without any practical

> usefulness.

> > > It is the practical usefulness that makes every tantra (technique)

> > > valuable and respectable. The same is true with this ancient

branch

> of

> > > Tantric knowledge called astrologia as well.

> > >

> > > Coming back to our subject of discussion, i.e. Ganita, an

astrologer

> > is

> > > expected to be thoroughly conversant with the methods of

calculating

> > > eclipses, planetary longitudes, heliacal rising and setting of

> planets

> > > and all other phenomena specified by astrological texts. Kali Dina

> is

> > > the number of days passed from the beginning of the Kali Yuga to

the

> > > epoch in question. The mean position of planets is the position

> which

> > it

> > > would have attained at a uniform rate of motion and the

corrections

> to

> > > be applied in respect of the eccentricity of the orbit are not

> > > considered. The mean longitude is reckoned on the assumption that

> the

> > > orbits of planets are concentric circles. Because of the orbits

are

> > > elliptical and not circular further equations or corrections

called

> > > beeja corrections are later on applied to the mean position to get

> the

> > > true longitude. Two planets are said to be in fight or Graha

Yuddha

> > when

> > > they are in conjunction and the distance between them is less than

> one

> > > degree. All planets except sun and moon (also Rahu and Ketu) can

> enter

> > > into war. The conjuring planet is the one with less longitude. The

> > > heliacal rising and setting (astodaya; asta and udaya; setting and

> > > rising) occur when they are at certain distance from Sun. Chandra

> > > samagama (conjunction with Moon) and eclipses involve more

elaborate

> > > calculations.

> > >

> > > So from what we discussed we can already infer that the difference

> > > between astronomical phenomenon in modern context and astrologia

> > > mathematics discussed in Sidhantas are different in calculations

and

> > > approach. In reality there do not exists any eclipses, combustion,

> > > retrogression, or many other phenomena discussed in astrologia

> texts.

> > > Actually astrologia mathematical texts approach this subject from

a

> > > different angle †" the deal with what we see,

observe,

> > experience as

> > > seen from earth. Know and understand this point clearly.

> > >

> > > Some words on Charlatans

> > >

> > > Astrologia mathematics (Ganita skanta and Siddhantic texts) may

> speak

> > > about the 8 directions, rising and setting of sun, the horizon,

> > > ecliptic, combustion of planets, retrograde and numerous other

> things

> > > that actually does not `exist' but we only `feel' as we

> > > observe it from earth. Even though the ancient sages knew well

that

> > Sun

> > > was the center of solar system, there calculations were well

> grounded

> > > and was given `as observed from earth' †"

erroneously

> terming

> > > it as `geo centric' is nothing but ignorance. Of course even the

> > > modern astronomers refer to and use the terms such as ecliptic,

> > horizon

> > > etc since they know and value the benefit of this approach. It is

> only

> > > those who lack the basic understanding and context only argue that

> > since

> > > - `directions does not exist', `sun does not rise and

> > > set', `combustion is not possible', `planets does not

> > > fight', `planets do not go backwards' etc and that due to

> > > all this the whole astrologia mathematics and understanding is

bogus

> > and

> > > useless.

> > >

> > > So what to say about some people (like AKK or Sanat) assuming

> > scientific

> > > temper and attacking astrology saying that it is unscientific even

> > > without knowing even the basic concepts properly still claiming

that

> I

> > > was into astrology for 35 yrs or 50 yrs etc and so on. These

> corrupted

> > > minds use what little they know as an opportunity to bring down

> Hindu

> > > pride and knowledge and prepare a ground for proselyte and

> converting

> > > Hindus by injecting inferiority complex by giving color of science

> or

> > > religion to their baseless and erroneous approach and arguments.

> They

> > > act as if they are protector of religion or gods as if they stand

> for

> > > truth †" while in truth they are into their

missionary

> mission

> > of

> > > destruction of ancient Indian knowledge branches such as

astrologia.

> > In

> > > their mind they accept western thoughts or ideology. Or even goes

to

> > the

> > > extent of mimicking that they stand for the Vedas and argue that

`it

> > > is not in Vedas and so cannot be accepted' etc. Neither they have

> > > any regard for Veda nor for astrologia. They know well that Vedas

> are

> > > not meant for astrological purpose, but they are not bothered,

> because

> > > saving neither Veda nor astrologia is their intention

†" but

> > only

> > > distorting even the little ancient wisdom available to us. With

this

> > > purpose they start useless endless discussions and put in whatever

> > they

> > > feels fit in for their secret agendas into one single mould. So

they

> > may

> > > equate Purusha with kalapurusha, Aswa with Aswati Nakshatra,

> Nakshatra

> > > with star, Rasi with constellation and may use any similar words

> > usually

> > > `out of context'. The reality is that they are yet to understand

> > > the real meanings and context of those words or its application in

> > > Sanskrit or in Astrologia, since they lack even the proper

tradition

> > > based education of this great subject astrologia (Jyotisastra) .

> > >

> > > This author or no astrologer is against any particular religions,

> > > regions, people, technology, science etc. Every knowledge should

be

> > used

> > > for " loka kalyana, sarva jana sukhaya , hitaya " (For the well

> > > being of the people, for the happiness of everyone, for the

benefit

> of

> > > everyone). So an astrologer can use all modern facilities and

> > knowledge

> > > branches and even astronomical calculations which are available

with

> > > advancement in technology and use it for astrological purpose -

even

> > > though attackers engage us into fight to answer why we are using

it.

> > > They are using the same modern knowledge read from here and there

to

> > > destruct Hindu dharmic knowledge branches, while wearing a

> protective

> > > mask of acting as if they are trying to protect Hindu dharma.

> > >

> > > Sidhantas: how realistic are they?

> > >

> > > The history of Hindu astronomy makes reference to 18 Sidhantas viz

> > > -Surya, Pitamaha (Brahma ), Vyasa, Vasishta, Atri, Parasara,

> Kasyapa,

> > > Narada, Garga, Marichi, Manu, Angiras, Lomasa (Romaka?), Paulisa,

> > > Yavana, Chyavana, Brigu and Saunaka. This is the opinion of many

> > > acharyas including Mihira. The list may slightly with some sages

> > > including the some names and omitting some other name. Out of

these

> 18

> > > acharyas, and the Siddhantic texts their unique astrologia

> traditions

> > > provide, it seems that there were only 5 names to have merited the

> > > admiration of Varahamihira or it is also possible that all other

> > > Sidhantas got lost by the time of Varaha Mihira.

> > >

> > > Varahamihira in his Pancha Sidhantika (which is a summary of 5

> > > Sidhantas) clearly says Siddhanta made by Paulisa (Paulisa

> Siddhanta)

> > is

> > > accurate, near to it stands the Siddhanta of Romaka (Romaka

> > Siddhanta),

> > > but more accurate is the Surya (Surya Siddhanta), and Paitamaha

> > (Brahma;

> > > Paitamaha Siddhanta) and Vasishta (Vasishta Siddhanta) are not

> > accurate

> > > (means become obsolete by the time of Varahamihira itself).

> > >

> > > Here I take opportunity to answer 2 sections of people. One, those

> > like

> > > Vinay Jha, who is spreading word that the Saura Paksha is accurate

> and

> > > we should use it `without any change'. The truth is - it is

> > > always good to test its efficiency like what Varahamihira did.

> > > Varahamihira himself tells us that in the absence of proper

> updating,

> > in

> > > the changing times many Sidhantas became obsolete. The inherent

> advice

> > > to us is that †" we should test the efficiency and

accuracy

> of

> > the

> > > Siddhanta or astrologia mathematical system we use.

> > >

> > > Second, to dharma Pravarthaka' s (Hindu religious propagators) ,

who

> > in

> > > the name of protecting Hindu dharma, is actually abusing acharyas.

> > They

> > > usually take only what they want from these quotations, and is

> > spreading

> > > lies that everything we got is from Greek,Chaldean, Babylon or

even

> > > European places! Where as they either forget or is close eyed

> towards

> > > the fact that Varahamihira also mentioned about Vasishta and

Brhama

> > > Sidhantas and said that they are not working properly now. Does it

> not

> > > show its antiquity? Is it not clear that `since with time

Sidhantas

> > > become obsolete and demands revision' that `Brahma Siddhanta and

> > > Vasishta Siddhanta are much older than the other available

> siddhantas

> > of

> > > that time'? Other wise what is the meaning of Varahamihira saying

> > > that those calculations are not at par with present day planetary

> > > phenomenon since no further improvements has been made by

successive

> > > generation of scholars?

> > >

> > > They don't have any proof to support their claims from respective

> > > cultures. Here in this list of 5 Sidhantas it clearly and

separately

> > > mentions Yavana and Surya Sidhantas, which clearly indicate that

> they

> > > does not borrow anything from each other. But still these people

> > > enthusiastically claim that Indian astrological knowledge came

from

> > > other cultures such as Greek or Rome! This reveals their real aim,

> and

> > > also that that these people are only interested in distorting

facts

> > and

> > > twisting everything.

> > >

> > > Thus the above statements also prove the Saura paksha orthodoxy

> claims

> > > such as that of Vinay Jha also don't hold water since here as it

is

> > > clear that Varahamihira is speaking about physical phenomenon than

> > > treating the astrologia calculation as some divine phenomenon.

> > Astrology

> > > was not a religion for him but a subject of practical usefulness.

If

> > > astrology is something that has got existence only on spiritual

and

> > > divine plane alone, then what is the need for so many Sidhantas

from

> > > different school of thoughts (Rishi Kulas)? (Rishi kulas: Rishi

> Kulas

> > > ashrams or centre of learning where each Rishi with the Kula

> > originators

> > > designation was the head of it). Why Varahamihira and many later

> > > scholars tried to improve it? Why they even said that only a few

> > > Sidhantas are available now and that even out of the few available

> > only

> > > some is working and that out of the whole Surya Siddhanta is

> superior

> > to

> > > other Sidhantas? Is it not true that - all these point out that

all

> > > Sidhantas need updating (Sidhantas should be updated on time) by

> > > individuals with dedicated time and scholarly pursuits?

> > >

> > > Let us come back to Prasna Marga. Prasna Marga is a condensed

> > > compilation of 100s of texts. It made obsolete many ancient texts

> > > because of its own popularity. Many books mentioned in it is not

> > > available now. Prashnamarga belongs to 14th century AD while

Pancha

> > > Siddhantika of Varaha Mihira belongs to 6th century AD). Prasna

> Marga

> > > gives a different opinion than Varahamihira (may be due to the

> > > mathematical contribution of Kerala and in text it was discussing

> > > various popular opinions prevalent in Kerala than its author's

> > > opinions). It says Brahma Siddhanta is accurate, Romaka is more

> > accurate

> > > but Surya Siddhanta is most accurate the last two (Vasishta and

> > Paulisa)

> > > are archaic in nature. Also not to mention the Arya bhata,

Bhaskara,

> > > Brahma Gupta and the like; the mathematical astronomers and their

> > > Siddhantic texts, which too contributed for Ganita skanta

> (astrologia

> > > mathematics) . I think and assume that, this all point to the very

> > fact

> > > that, all these Sidhantas are discussing about seeing actual

> position

> > > (physical position) of planets †" i.e. Suryadi

Navagrahas (9

> > > planets). It is more clear when they discuss about eclipses (with

> some

> > > non mathematical imaginary position I think it is not calculable

as

> it

> > > is a visible reality). The Eclipse behavior, visibility, sparsha

> > > (touching, approaching) and moksha (leaving, separating) periods

and

> > > its duration, techniques to calculate it, time of eclipse

happening

> > etc

> > > †" all these doesn't make sense if the

astrological

> Sidhantas

> > > like Surya Siddhanta is not speaking about real physical planets.

So

> > all

> > > these point to the fact that, they are all talking about real

> > planetary

> > > positions †" the Drik Siddhanta Sputa. If not

(would Vinay

> Jha

> > is

> > > true) even the so called beeja corrections are not required. This

is

> > not

> > > the case, all the above points together clearly shows that Vinay's

> > > arguments and approach (of considering Surya Siddhanta based

> planetary

> > > positions only as spiritual unrelated to reality than physical

> > reality)

> > > are totally wrong.

> > >

> > > The later day contribution of Aryabhata's followers is known as

> > > Parahita (means acceptable or liked by others - or it also means

> that

> > it

> > > is acceptable to all people from far places too). It was widely

used

> > in

> > > computing ephemeris and birth charts and even calculating eclipses

> and

> > > all other astrological purposes. Again during later days, it is

> again

> > > found that even those calculations are differing from actual

> positions

> > > and Shri Parameshwara acharya (parameswaran nampoothiri) in 14th

> > century

> > > (much before modern reminiscence in Europe) made some corrections

> > after

> > > 55yrs research and hard work of astronomical observations, refined

> > > further all those calculations. The system he introduced came to

be

> > > known as " Drik Ganita " (actual Planetary positions `as

> > > observed'). He also published one text called Grahana mandanam

which

> > > explains the calculation method to arrive at correct planetary

> > position

> > > of sun and moon at eclipses and its timing etc. His work is

> otherwise

> > > also knows Drik Siddhanta and its mathematical calculation is

known

> as

> > > Drik Ganita (termed `thiru ganita' in south in general).

> > >

> > > He explicitly tells us that he discussed only deviations happened

in

> > > previous Sidhantas and knowledge of previous Sidhantas is a must

and

> > > necessary. He requested all scholars to use this as an auxiliary

> only

> > > to those Sidhantas (such as Parahita system). H says -

> > >

> > > Viknjaya cha laghu thantram

> > >

> > > drishtwa Golasya samstitheem Bahusa

> > >

> > > ganakanam santhosha pradam

> > >

> > > maya grahana mandanam kriyathe

> > >

> > > (4th sloka in first chapter --grahana mandanam)

> > >

> > > So I think we should use the actual positions of planets and hence

> > using

> > > modern nautical almanacs is also recommended for astrologers as I

> > > don't think in future anyone will devote their time for this kind

of

> > > calculations, if it is already available with the help of modern

> > tools.

> > > The only thing we should use and stick to is the predictive

> principles

> > > laid down by ancient sages.

> > >

> > > [i am asking forgiveness for mistakes committed by me in this

> article

> > > †" if any. This is a wide subject is beyond my

capacity and

> > caliber.

> > > But still I tried an investigation from my side and invites

> scholarly

> > > opinion of other learned scholars and students. I invite all

> > astrologers

> > > who has different opinions than me in group and I hope they may

join

> > and

> > > contribute for this discussions]

> > >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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