Main Problems of Vedic Astrology -PANCHANGAS-SOUTH 12/4

April 12, 2009

Dear Vinay ji

u must meet some south Indian panchanga Karthas here and find out what they do

also, first thing is knowing then differentiating it with what is followed by

traditional people in surya siddhanta or local variations of it

in AndHra Pradesh u have Nemani Panchangam one of the famil members Sri Nemani

raghunadha rao is a astrologer in the forums too now he has settled down in KP

more than traditional, most ppl r fascinated by numbers and more workings than

the traditional vargas, yogas, balas, ashtakavarga, avasthas, kakshyas dasas

based ones

Guota ji panchangam from rajamundry is a good one

Madhura Krishna Murthy shastry from Rajamundr y is a great vedic scholar they

speak sanskrit at hoome he has his own system and follows Sankranthi 3 days

earlier to rest [Makara sankranti] his ayanamsa is 3 Deg faster to RAMAN's

in Karnataka Vontikoppal is a standard Panchanga kartha from Mysore and v

pouplar

Karnataka -followers of various maths have different ones like Pwjawar, Udipi, ,

Parakala matt, uttardhi mutt, Raghavandra mutt

and most of them fast on Ekadasis so the way they plot Ekadasi differs from

others.

in TN it is different most follow the Vakya model- no retrogression only actual

motion and it varies from Maadurai, Kanceeepurum, srirangam and in sri rangam

the iyandars vadagalai, thengalai have their own shades of it. no unaimoty major

grahs or eclpses come hours off target or actual visible ones which astonomy or

Drijganitha based give

Prashant

________________________________

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:33:13 PM

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

Shenoy Ji,

You said : " I once met an astrologer who makes Sanskrit Panchanga, which

actually is different from local panchangas. To my surprise, I found it to be

similar. "

Different from local panchangas but similar to what ? I could not understand.

If one has an astrologer's yoga in his/her kundali, he/she can make fantastic

predictions using bad panchangas.. And vice versa.

In Bihar, UP, MP, etc, a large majority of traditional panchangas are hand made

from ancient tables which are directly or indirectly based upon Suryasiddhanta.

these panchangas are crude, but horoscopes made freom them are better than those

made from physical astronomy as far as astrological accuracy is concerned. That

is why " some astrologers insist on manual computation from panchanga " .

I have little knowledge of south Indian panchangas.

The knowledge of Siddhanta is in a pitiable condition, as you noted. I mastered

it (not completely, but to a great extent), merely to generate envy and anger

among those who neglect Siddhanta and call themselves Tri-skandha- jyotishi.

-VJ

____________ _________ _________ __

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ >

Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:37:07 AM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

Namasthe,

I believe the old panchangas were used to be computed using Surasidhanta & beeja

Ganitha. But over a period of time, I feel the system was changed. The present

generation simply carry on what their predecesors were doing. Most of them do

not know the calculations. Some uses a mixture - planetory positions as per

standard system, but duration of nakshatra, thithy, yoga differs. No one gives a

clear answer, if you try to enquire.

I once met an astrologer who makes Sanskrit Panchanga, which actually is

different from local panchangas. To my surprise, I found it to be similar and

asked him the reason. Since I know him personaly, he admitted that it is

actually made by another person & he do not really know the computations. That

panchanga is followed by many of temples of our community(brahmin) Such is state

of affairs now.

Even if we may find logic to be true, it is not very easy to convince a huge

number of astrologers who use the standard methods & gets fantastic results.

Take for instance, The prediction made by Sri Vr.Krishna elsewere in this forum

on a football match. I am sure he uses normal computation. I am sure you

understand the difficulty.

Many a times rasi chart may not show any difference. The issue arises when one

requires more precise dates, numbers etc mostly deduced from vargas. The sad

part is we rarely get enough time & energy.

I have seen another funny side also. Though you can the computations in seconds

using computers, some astrologers insist on manual computation from panchanga,

not aware that these are computer generated.

The best way will be asses the system in parallel. I can asure you, I shall

spend some time on it.

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Prashant ji,

>

> Surely, TIME TESTED MODELS WILL BE USED.

>

> My profile at ClickHere (http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha)

shows following :

>

> >>>>>SuryasiddhÄntiya ParnchÄnga Ki NirmÄna Vidhi ( Hindi, presented in

summarised form in the national conference at SampoornÄnand Sanskrit University

in VÄrÄnasi on Oct 18-19,2005 ( It

> was unanimously accepted by all leading astrologers of Hindi speaking

> states participating in this conference that all panchangas / almanacs

> ought to be made solely from Surya-siddhÄnta). This article can be downloaded

from this site (see link below the Home Page).<<<<<

>

> " SuryasiddhÄntiya ParnchÄnga Ki NirmÄna Vidhi " means : method of making

Suryasiddhantic Panchanga. The method of Suryasiddhantic panchanga or kundali is

the most time tested one in the world, even Varah Mihir said so. I added nothing

new to this method. I have no wish to impose Suryasiddhantic method upon those

who dislike it for some purpose or other.

>

> I updated the beej-samskaara along ancient rules, because traditional

Suryasiddhantic panchanga makers were using old tables updated in 1478 AD..

>

> I never saw any heliocentric astrological software. I use geotopical model, as

all astrologers ought to do : planetary positions for the birthplace of native

(at the surface of Earth) is needed by astrologers, not for Earth's centre or

Sun's centre.

>

> -VJ

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ..>

>

> Saturday, April 11, 2009 6:46:26 PM

> Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

>

> Cunay ji

>

> do u imply that u r followiong Heliocentric model and also the Vakya -no

retrogression for major Grahas?

>

> di u aoot beeja corrections, what is the method for this

> and u must also be patient even when a new drug is created it is tested in

house and then some animals then some live patients-volunteers finally only

after years it is realesed in to market after the report says it is safe enough

similarlt once u publish the charets based on both models of casting and what

difference it is making to a result then people may try

>

> else TIME TESTED MODELS WILL BE USED

>

> Prashant

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

>

> Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:43:44 PM

> Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

>

> Prashant ji,

> As seen from Earth, all planets must follow vakri (retrogression) and then

margi paths, excepting Sun, Moon and nodes. But if we could see from the Sun

(Heliocentric model), all planets will always be margi, and only Moon and its

nodes will show margi & vakri variations. Suryasiddhantic and physical models

are same in this respect, the only difference is a difference of few degrees in

planetsry positions.

>

> I know Shenoy ji is not among those who were abusing or attacking me, but he

does not want to test Kundalee software just because he follows a different

school. I do not want to say anything against any school, but I rate Parashara

and Jaimini among rishis. I think Shenoy ji's misgivings have been removed. I

have no misgivings or complaint against him.

>

> -V J

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar >

>

> Friday, April 10, 2009 8:25:19 PM

> Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

>

> Dear Vinay ji

>

> pl be patient and polite in replies here as I have said earlier also no one

here r from the other group members who have been targeting u so if u expect at

least ppl here to try ur model u must be starting from scratch-so patience will

help u

>

> and if as the earlier mail suggested to give examples of both modesl wok sure

all will BENEFIT by it

>

> u have not clarified on the VAKRI/REtrogression is this part of ur model or is

not part of it pl clarify

>

> as the Vakya panchanga karthas or traditional ones don't use them

>

> and for religious functions, yagnas, Upavas [vrat] etc they use Vakya for

Phalit or horary Ganit is used so there is a inbuilt model for them and the

ganit model follows retrogression.

>

> what may differ is the precession par

>

> Prashant

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >

>

> Friday, April 10, 2009 8:11:34 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee- Test it

ASTROLOGICALLY !!

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji :

>

> You said : >>>>>> " By equating Mt.Meru with that of mountain in Kenya,

> you are vertually racking up the age old controversy - was astrology

> brought to India from outside (Kenya?) or did it go outside from

> India?. " <<<< <<

>

> Strange argument ! No ancient or modern writer, as far as I know, ever

> said Mt Meru was in India (some tried to equate it with Mt Kailash). If

> someone locates it in the Arctic Ocean (North Pole), Indocentricism is

> not hurt, but if I say that Suryasiddhanta and Narapatijayacharya

> clearly say it was at the middle of the Earth in the land of Jamboonada,

> does it not prove it was outside India ? Neither Jamboonada flows in

> India nor the equator passes through India.

>

> I do not want to show you posts to me by " reputed " astrologers abusing

> my mother and sister in worst obscene language, because I forgave him.

> Whom I ever called name ? I merely said some persons are scoundrels and

> some are good-hearted. Everyone knows this truth, for which you are

> teaching me lessons in etiquette.

>

> Your words are : " frustration of being rejected or rediculed by others "

> is your misconception about me. It was me who rejected worldliness and

> became an ascetic, and not the world rejecting me. I belonged to a

> powerful political family and my relatives were dejected when I left my

> brilliant academic career, having topped both in science and arts

> (English literature) to become an ascetic and learn astrology. My works

> are accepted by reputed institutions : Click Here.

> <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha>

>

> Earlier, I did not want to distribute Kundalee software to all and

> sundry and gave it only to those who knew its worth. It was created in

> 2005, but I started distributing it through the internet actually in the

> beginning of Jan 2009. Only those persons are " rejecting and ridiculing "

> it who are opposed either to Suryasiddhanta or to BPHS. Hence they are

> not rejecting me, they are rejecting Lord Surya or Sage Parashara. To

> date, I have not seen a single refutation of Kundalee software based on

> any astrological ground. Planetary positions of Suryasiddhanta differ

> from yhose of physical planets. Why make a fuss about planetary

> positions, make a fuss if astrological results are wrong. Many

> softwares are experimenting with ayanamsha and Vimshottari year length,

> I widened this experiment to a third zone (planetary position). This

> view is based on traditional astrological wisdom, according to which

> astrological planets are different from physical planets not only in

> character but in heavenly positions as well (CLICK HERE !

> <http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o> to hear someone else's

> words). I hope Shenoy ji will take my words in a good spirit.

>

> -VJ

> ============ ========= ============ ===

> , " sureshbabuag "

> <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Its very good that you understand that there are various systems in

> astrology.

> >

> > It is you posted here in the first place trying to prove your point. I

> dont have to prove anything to you. It was you who refered the Mt Meru &

> ujain also. It is not that I wanted Mt.Meru in Ujain. You totaly

> misunderstood the concept. Kindly re-read what I had written on it. By

> equating Mt.Meru with that of mountain in Kenya, you are vertually

> racking up the age old controversy - was astrology brought to India from

> outside (Kenya?) or did it go outside from India?.

> >

> > Not that it is important for normal seekers of astrological advice.

> >

> > Further, on the computation,

> >

> > I just tried todays date & and time

> > Date : 10-Apr-2009

> > Time : 7:00 Am

> > Latitude : 09:58N

> > Longitude: 76:17E

> >

> > The longitude of Venus as given by

> > Kundalee: 28:37:58

> > jHora : 06:25:44

> > Traditional Panchanga : 06:28

> > another local software: 06:26

> >

> > Kundalee varies Hugely. Can you explain it?.

> >

> > All your theories make an interesting reading provided it is backed

> with " accurate " data & not being sarcastic or bad mouthing

> ( " scoundrals " ) that is totaly unbecomming of a monk.

> >

> > You have immense knowledge in the subject, but it seems frustration of

> being rejected or rediculed by others is taking its toll which is very

> evident in the words you choose to express.

> >

> > I do not intend nor consider myself competent to teach you anything,

> But being an open forum, every one has to maintain its etiquette,

> particularly since a lot of persons visit only to learn a thing or two

> about astrology.

> >

> > dhyaayato viShayaanpuMsaH sa~NgasteShupajaaya te

> > sa~Ngaatsa~njaayate kaamaH kaamaatkrodho. abhijaayate. .

> >

> > krodhaadbhavati sammohaH sammohaatsmritivibh ramaH

> > smritibhraMshaad buddhinaasho buddhinaashaatpraNa shyati..

> >

> > With warm regards

> > A..G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ wrote:

> > >

> > > To sureshbabuag ji :

> > >

> > > There are systems not based on Vimshottari, but no ancient or

> modern author has written AGAINST the efficacy of Vimshottari dasha.

> If someone believes Vimshottari system is wrong, he/she should not use

> Kundalee software. This software is based on BPHS and not on Brihad

> Jataka. There are differences in BPHS and Brihad Jataka and I do not

> want to say anything against Brihad Jataka or against any system.

> Kundalee software is not an encyclopaedia of all systems.

> > >

> > > I repeat that Kundalee software is world's most accurate software if

> one wants to test timing of events based on Vimshottari system and wants

> to test all divisionals according to principles of BPHS and Laghu

> Parashari. But for those who do not follow BPHS and do not use

> Vimshottari, Kundalee software is of no use.

> > >

> > > I gave reference of verses in ancient texts (eg, Suryasiddhanta,

> Narapatijayacharya) about the location of Mt Meru, but Mr Shenoy now

> wants Mt Meru in Ujjain without giving any reference.

> > >

> > > What is the use of arguing with people who want to prove, without

> testing a software, that a software should not be used ?? They are free

> not to test a software.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ============ ========= == ============ ========= ===

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag sureshbabuag@

> > >

> > > Friday, April 10, 2009 3:31:15 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Now it your turn to look again at what I had written. A never used

> the word Lunar Time for computing the " time " for birth time or " Hora " .

> > >

> > > The computation / reference of " Time " has changed over centuries due

> to various developments & adoptations. In old days " time " was found

> using the " sankuchaya " , which is practicaly useless at night.

> Mechanical clocks were developed only a few centuries back and how many

> could have afforded it? even if they could have obtained one.

> > >

> > > Hence it is only logical & prudent to adopt a suitable method of

> computation when time changes. There is nothing illogical in it.

> > >

> > > Here the only controvercy is over Ayanamsa. Over the centuries,

> great many people have contributed their thoughts on this.. Sri Chandra

> Hari who holds an M.sc in physics & M.Tech from BHU, Varnasi has given a

> new formula based on his findings & information & studies in vedas &

> upanishads. But he being not an astrologer and not having true

> predictive experience we cannot easily accept it. But there is harm in

> experimenting.

> > >

> > > Late Sri B.V.Raman had given his own formula and many say it is very

> accurate. We have to believe it, simply due to the greatness of that

> person. I am sure he would not have risked his reputation as well as

> that of his ancestors simply on the question of a degree or two.

> > >

> > > Sri M.C.Lahiri's is the most widely used method and thousands of

> great astrologers are staking their reputation & welfare of the people

> who seek their advice on a grossily wrong principle.

> > >

> > > Further, I am sure you are wrongly informed when you wrote about the

> efficacy of Vimsottari Dasa for that matter any particular dasa system.

> > >

> > > Kindly refer to the 7th chapter 1st sloka of brihad jataka

> > >

> > > mayayavanamaNinthas haktipuurvaiH

> > > divasakaraadiShu vatsaraaH pradiShTaaH

> > > navatithiviShayaash wibhuutarudraa

> > > dashasahitaa dashabhisswatungabh eShu

> > >

> > > Where the no's for calculation of Ucha/neecha dasa is given &

> further says that when raja yoga is present as in the case of

> " yasaswii " .

> > >

> > > He again states the importance of amsaka dasa.

> > > swamatena kilaaha jiivasharmmaa

> > > grihadaayaM paramaayuShasswaraa MshaM

> > > grihabhuuktanavaaMs haraashitulyaM

> > > bahuusaamyaM samupaiti satyavaakyam. .

> > >

> > > again in chapter 8 of the same book verse 22

> > >

> > > shubhaphaladadashaa yaam taadrigevaandaraatm aa

> > > bahu janayati puMsaaM saukhyamarthaagaman jha

> > > kathitaphalavipaaka istarkayedwartta maanaaM

> > > pariNamati phaloktiH swapnachindaaswavii raiH..

> > >

> > > He is very clear in statement that the dasa which proves most

> efficient & corresponds to most of the events should be adopted.

> > >

> > > What is specifically written, what is not written, what is assumed,

> what is commented about others opinion etc all should be considered

> before forming any opinion.

> > >

> > > If Vimshottari alone shows the whole life cycle & events in ones

> life Varaha Mihira & others would not wasted their valuable time on

> other type of dasa. We do not possess even 1/1000 of the knowledge they

> possessed. Still it would not be without reason they searched for other

> type of dasas.

> > >

> > > Similarly, No astrology classical works state that the computation

> of period should only be done on the basis Lunar year. Representation of

> day / month / year are periodical & subjective to the nation. Even In

> India, though English dates are considered for day-today activities &

> universal consistency, Some communities only consider Lunar dates for

> religious purpose. The only real difference is in the concept & mean. An

> English date only a date while a lunar thithy has a wider meaning as far

> as we are concerned. Hence, Lunar Year may be considered for dasa system

> for the sake of experimentation.

> > >

> > > Then again, there are many methods. (a) Consider lunar year (b)

> consider Lunar converted year 116.5 years instead of 12 year © compute

> normally & instead of presenting the output in English dates present it

> in lunar dates.

> > >

> > > Many authors have stressed the need to look at factors like once

> lineage etc when stating the effects of planets / yogas which invariably

> will effect the dasa also.

> > >

> > > Saravali : on Raja yogas

> > >

> > > svocchatrikoNagR^ ihagairbalasaMyu taishcha tryaadyairnR^ ipo

> bhavati bhuupativaMshajaata H

> > > pa~nchaadibhirjanap adaprabhavo. api siddho hiinaiH

> kshitiishvarasamo na tu bhuumipaalaH. .

> > >

> > > If three planets are exalted or in moolatrikona or with strength, a

> person born in royal family shall become the king. The next part also

> states similar conditions. The most important point here is " born in

> royal family " . Hence it should be understood that the same yoga may not

> produce a king if the person is born in much lower family status. This

> raises another question, What is use of most accurate dasa system if the

> astrologer is not aware of the financial / family background of the

> person in such a situation. If we go blindly by data alone it is very

> easy to commit blunders.

> > >

> > > Finaly Mt Meru mentioned by you in another post is very simple. The

> " Meru " mean spine in Sanskrit & hence refers to Tropic of cancer which

> passes through Ujain. The Mount is added to indicate its greatness &

> firmness Ã¢â‚¬ " that never changes, the base characteristic of a

> mountain. There is nothing mystical about it & and it does not refer to

> Meru partvatha used for " palazhi mathana " . The readers should not be

> confused by this.

> > >

> > > While, your thoughts, concepts & software are most welcome, claiming

> that it is " worlds most accurate one " is taking it too far. By doing

> that you are degrading every other great proponents of astrology living

> or bygone.

> > >

> > > Astronomy & particularly astrology is highly adaptive, and has

> undergone various " Samskars " refinement over the ages.. Rather that

> trying to exert an already established theory, it would be better if you

> concentrate on taking the views of its users & refining the software.

> > >

> > > With this I rest my case.

> > >

> > > With warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

> ....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shenoy ji,

> > > >

> > > > The verses you quoted from Prasna Marg were based upon an earlier

> work : Panchsiddhantika of Varah Mihir.

> > > >

> > > > Why you guessed I have anything new about " Time " ? I used

> standard methods of computing birthtime.. Did you guess I used lunar

> time everywhere ? There is no hidden thing in Kundalee, and I've already

> explained what are its unique features.

> > > >

> > > > Varah Mihir used different method of dasha, but neither he nor

> anyone else has ever said that " Vimshottari dasa need not reveal /

> correspond to all the events in ones life " . BPHS clearly gives a long

> list of three typres of dashas :

> > > >

> > > > (1) Vimshottari, which has no condition and no opponent, and is

> therefore universally applicable.

> > > > (2) Nine other nakshatra based dasha which work when certain

> conditions are fulfilled.

> > > > (3) Other dashas, about which BPHS says that they are not

> universally accepted.

> > > >

> > > > All your suspicions will be removed when you start using the

> English pages of English version of Kundalee ; you need not touch Hindi

> pages which are less important and are seldom needed. Complete

> translation into English will take a long time : why you do not believe

> me that only those pages are in Hindi alone which you will hardly need

> in actual practice.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Friday, April 10, 2009 12:38:54 AM

> > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > >

> > > > Namasthe

> > > >

> > > > Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of

> " Time " .

> > > >

> > > > More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere

> calculations alone & the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new

> also.

> > > >

> > > > " braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

> > > > siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

> > > >

> > > > The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

> > > >

> > > > " spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

> > > > sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau... "

> > > >

> > > > Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is

> the most accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

> > > >

> > > > " kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

> > > > kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

> > > >

> > > > Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear,

> Sometimes Romasa is clear. But the other are never accurate.

> > > >

> > > > The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast

> 1100 years back, a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new

> in your claim.. Further, Every classical text urges us to compute " time "

> according to " kaladeshapramanena " , simply put using those equipments

> awailable at the place / period / century etc.

> > > >

> > > > There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the

> birth time also.

> > > >

> > > > It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in

> the past should be considered to predict future events also. This view

> is held by almost all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa

> need not reveal / correspond to all the events in ones life.

> > > >

> > > > Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

> > > >

> > > > anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

> > > > uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

> > > >

> > > > One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas

> ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬ " this could very well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira,

> expert in surmising / correlating / intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a

> person only will know jathaka.

> > > >

> > > > Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the

> basis of astrology also , it is not enough.

> > > >

> > > > Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic

> doctors were discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous

> disorder case. I explained, the relationship between the type of

> medicine, its relationship with signs, & planets etc. Just then one of

> the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be inffered from it / how

> it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken back, but

> remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be equated

> to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

> in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders.. Even I was

> surprised at the relationship & what amount of information we can get

> from Rasi chart itself if we only we care to spend time & effort.

> > > >

> > > > Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari

> as you say. We shall discuss this further, if you like.

> > > >

> > > > Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or

> the concepts. Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly &

> fully awailable in english. (I had downloaded it way back when you

> introduced it).

> > > >

> > > > with warm regards

> > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > >

> > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

> ....> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shenoy ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

> > > > >

> > > > > You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced

> whatever suited your imagination.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need

> physical astronomy.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no

> alternative to Suryasiddhanta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their

> respective fields.

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > > >

> > > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> > > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > > >

> > > > > Namasthe,

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

> > > > >

> > > > > You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this

> sentence in two parts, as

> > > > > A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered

> instead of modern methods of computation

> > > > > b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which

> brings up another argument.

> > > > >

> > > > > A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> > > > > b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory

> positions, but does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

> > > > >

> > > > > When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to

> know time, In old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was

> used to know time. " Time " as it is measured / known then could be

> different from today atomic clocks. Hence, we may have to go back &

> start using the old " Sankuchaya " for knowing the Time of birth etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn

> anything or convey any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we

> call as " Sanskrit " - that which has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is

> divine science, But equally there should not be any doubt its deep

> scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one cannot write a software.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly reflect..

> > > > > warm regards

> > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > > >

> > > > > , Vinay Jha

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not

> correct.. You say : " All the phala (results) used for predictions where

> originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > > > > > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as

> more

> > > > > > accurate. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for

> predictions where originaly based on position of planets computed as per

> Suryasidhanta. " ). But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had

> same misgivings about Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers

> have, and would never have touched Suryasiddhanta on my own.. But I was

> fortunate to be a disciple of a paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr

> Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar also (he was Ph.D from School of

> Oriental and African Studies in London University, and served as a Vice

> Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60 books are rotting

> unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky to have

> learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

> any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent

> to me :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking

> about astrology, and I

> > > > > > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that

> astrological planets are

> > > > > > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he

> gives is

> > > > > > different), and that they are deities, not just physical

> planets.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > > > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namasthe

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking

> hindi, rather it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well,

> we shall see.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mean while may I surmise your view points..

> > > > > > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be

> based on Suryasidhanta methods.

> > > > > > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary

> accordingly.

> > > > > > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on

> solar year.

> > > > > > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where

> originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > > > > > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be

> considered instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as

> more accurate.

> > > > > > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on

> Suryasidhanta.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I

> erred in any of the above.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Vinay Jha

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was

> distributed freely in the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted

> most important pages into English and uploaded it on the internet. If

> you dislike Hindi in the remaing pages of English version, I will have

> to delete those pages. But many astrologers said they can read Hindi but

> want English input.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of

> astrological results will more than compensate for your trouble. I want

> to hear about your experiences about the astrological results.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > > > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology -

> Kundalee

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namasthe

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it

> lacks user friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English,

> if we choose english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets "

> is pressed switches to hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms

> displays only Hindi & they are highly crowded with data making it less

> readable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > warm regards

> > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

> <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To All :-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet

> forums and experiments made by astrological software makers, the most

> important problem faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All

> other problems of mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been

> finally resolved by modern physical scientists. Since the basic rules of

> phalita (predictive) astrology have not been questioned by almost all

> Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring ayanamsha there is no real

> problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market

> today which give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of

> ayanamsha. Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to

> 24 degrees approximately. With all possible values of ayanamsha already

> having been experimented with, has the problem of a foolproof software

> been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she already has perfect

> softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha there is

> nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

> because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all

> types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is

> never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must read this

> thread..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have

> also erred on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all

> charts together with their due weightage. There were numerous occassions

> when with all sorts of interpretations I could not get satisfactory

> explanations of real life events. After decades of research, I found out

> that most of our current problems are rooted in our departure from

> ancient principles, which can be summed up in following points :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV

> Raman adopted Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he

> added modern rate of annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid

> one, very near to Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also

> Suryasiddhantic, with negligible difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based

> 360 lunar days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya

> Upanishada says full life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to

> 116..4 solar years. leave aside these arguments, perfect timing of

> events has found to be achieved with lunar year used for Vimshottari.

> Many other software developers had also experimented with this option ;

> I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third reform given

> below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference

> from the true planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to

> over a degree. This difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again

> started rising, at the rate of one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern

> astrological softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other

> softwares have options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also

> have optons for adding or substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it

> contained similar offsets for true planets and lagna, it would have

> saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee software.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some

> clarification, because the first two points have already been adopted in

> many famous vedic softwares. Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an

> outdated text and there is no need to experiment with it.. They know

> majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables based on

> Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

> traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

> knowingly or unknowingly. . Many of them have made comparative studies of

> horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from

> softwares, and a large number of these traditional astrologers declare

> that Suryasiddhantic horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that

> horoscopes based on modern astronomy. That is why astrologers of many

> states of India , led by four Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided

> in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi that all panchangas ought to be made

> on

> > > > the

> > > > > > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this

> traditional India is not duly represented on the internet because most

> Sanskrit pandits have little or no experience of computers and internet.

> That is why some computerized astrologers think the voice of traditional

> Indian astrology must be forcibly suppressed because this

> " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one

> degree of offset in positions of true planets, which will make all

> divisional charts absolutely accurate for all natives whose birthtime is

> accurate. Moreover, traditional predictive rules work in perfect harmony

> with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing

> the operation of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya.

> wetpaint.. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining

> Vimshottari timings of events. One example is displayed at

> http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title

> Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed Attributes

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is

> forecasting world economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

> World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in

> the same page ; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia

> ..wetpaint. com/page/ 2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+

> South+Asia) .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for

> ascertaing whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets

> ought to be used for making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at

> Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7 raashis due to over half a degree

> difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern asteronomical Sun.. Such a

> great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to see which conforms

> more to real events.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel

> which will lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not

> help. Practical testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to crush

> the voice of a great body of traditional India just because it has no

> presence on internet. All these pandits of Sanskrit universities are not

> fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient methods more than

> socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

> traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

> listened.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods,

> without personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the

> validity of traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

April 12, 2009

Dear Sirs,

Rashtriya sanskrit Vidya Peeth Delhi publishes annually Panchang in the month of

June.it is very informative.It is considered as better than the Panchang

published from Benares.We in ICAS,Delhi used to refer it occassionally

vrkrishnan

--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar wrote:

Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology -PANCHANGAS-SOUTH 12/4

Sunday, April 12, 2009, 4:40 AM

Dear Vinay ji

u must meet some south Indian panchanga Karthas here and find out what they do

also, first thing is knowing then differentiating it with what is followed by

traditional people in surya siddhanta or local variations of it

in AndHra Pradesh u have Nemani Panchangam one of the famil members Sri Nemani

raghunadha rao is a astrologer in the forums too now he has settled down in KP

more than traditional, most ppl r fascinated by numbers and more workings than

the traditional vargas, yogas, balas, ashtakavarga, avasthas, kakshyas dasas

based ones

Guota ji panchangam from rajamundry is a good one

Madhura Krishna Murthy shastry from Rajamundr y is a great vedic scholar they

speak sanskrit at hoome he has his own system and follows Sankranthi 3 days

earlier to rest [Makara sankranti] his ayanamsa is 3 Deg faster to RAMAN's

in Karnataka Vontikoppal is a standard Panchanga kartha from Mysore and v

pouplar

Karnataka -followers of various maths have different ones like Pwjawar, Udipi, ,

Parakala matt, uttardhi mutt, Raghavandra mutt

and most of them fast on Ekadasis so the way they plot Ekadasi differs from

others.

in TN it is different most follow the Vakya model- no retrogression only actual

motion and it varies from Maadurai, Kanceeepurum, srirangam and in sri rangam

the iyandars vadagalai, thengalai have their own shades of it. no unaimoty major

grahs or eclpses come hours off target or actual visible ones which astonomy or

Drijganitha based give

Prashant

____________ _________ _________ __

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >