I I AGREE PRASHANT JI /Mr. JHA- HASTE - GRAHAS Vs, PLanets??ATTN: MR JHA

April 10, 2009

I do very much agree with what prashant ji has said/metioned.

Also as fine granularity would come only in:

a) TIMING OF EVENTS

==================

(assuming methods of interpretetion are synchronized/ that is same or similar-

)

b) DIVISIONAL CHARTS

===================

IN the 10 cases- It needs to be CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN- how the present

ephemeris(GANIT) fails?

We may also need to come to a concurrence on PHALIT- on how to time

events...interpretetion of diseases/marriage or any thing from higher

charts..but that would come later.

Dear Mr. Jha- this is the VERY BASIC WAY...

I and all of us am for ASTROLOGY, then comes the ASTROLOGER..- all of us ..

You ahve made some points- which appear to be OK(grahas/planets...name of the

eminent people..you mentioend..but agin discrimination needs to be there)..but

to prove it even relatively conclusively- LET US ALL WORK TOGETHER..that would

be a WIN-WIN for all..

Mr. Jha- it would in turn be a help to all...

Regards,

Punkajj C Dhar

, Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

wrote:

>

> Vinay ji

>

> 2 points here

>

> 1st is when ucut and paste it does insert spaces near a . assuing it is

puncutation so USE Copy link option in such cases

>

> that is right click on the hyperlink u want to clip and paste

> this will not add any spaces to it and willWORK effectively

>

> 2. oint

>

> probably now u got this right as the atmosphere is civilised and cooler here

>

> // Should I put there ten case studies of well known personalities from

> Kundalee as well as from physical ephemeris ? Is that what you mean //

>

> this is imperative to show both models of case studies

>

> with ur method

> and with pouplar method

>

> and reason out the differences seperately comparing the 2 models

>

> and ask members to judge it for themselves

>

> it is better u do more cases studies like this do 10 per month and will help u

a lot as more ppl can be able to see that ur work is NOT STATIC and is open for

many cases.

>

> any clinical trial or lab process will take time and u have to be the best

person to do it and one or two who r closer2u can also sumbit them analysis must

be urs and theirs also

>

> I've still not found time to do many pending jobs of the past 2 yrs I hope

sonner I can spare sometime and will be good when u have more examples of the

said 2 models

>

> PONT 3

>

> DOES THIS model u advocate have retrogression of grahas

>

> as I know the Vaky amodel doesn't allow this say now sani moves to Kanya on

9/9/9 and 4 months in Kanya, retrogrades to Simha later and RE-ENTERS KANYA IN

jUL 10 most vakya models will take that period only not the inbetween period? is

this the same model u follow

>

> thanks

>

> Prashant

> Best wishes

>

> ________________________________

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

>

> Friday, April 10, 2009 5:32:50 PM

> Re: HASTE - GRAHAS Vs, PLanets?? ATTN: MR VINAY JHA-

evalauation...o

>

> Pankaj ji,

> If you feel offended, I retract those words. I simply copy-pasted and did not

deliberately inserted spaces ; I do not know why links get broken during

pasting. If so happens, you can remove the extra space and paste the address in

address bar of your browser.

>

> Your original points were good, and I drew your attention to webpages where I

had already uploaded such examples. For instance, the pages contain examples you

should read :

>

> http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

>

> If these examples do not suffice, I will add more for scrutiny. Should I put

there ten case studies of well known personalities from Kundalee as well as from

physical ephemeris ? Is that what you mean ? But before that, can you not view

the examples I have put on there ?

>

> -VJ

> ============ ======== ============ ======

> , " Pom " <pankajdhar@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Mr. Jha wrote " You are too hasty. "

> >

> > I trust you are also too hasty to read what I had written- with due respect

to you- you have in my humble opinion not tried to understand the purport of my

mail to you.

> >

> > Also : the site " http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ " - sugegsted has

INADVERATNT BLANKS- making it incorrect to acccess, is it due to non haste I

wonder sir?

> >

> > People would accept your sofware more easily if it is in the form as

sugegsted, with more cases proven and that also systematcially. You do not need

to tell people- one publciation would naturally attarct people..and the case is

proven....

> >

> > As I have some expereince in working and modelling complex systems(inlcudes

basic modelling and statistcial analysis- my apologies, I ma not trying to

falunt - justa FYI..), it is for your help I had been suggesting.

> >

> > The hit and trail approach you are suggesting(Down laod and check for your

self is error prone,as different asrologers would interprete differently- if you

could expactly give your vewi point for 10 cases, especially for divisional

charts..that would clsoe the matter)...could have alternatives. .

> >

> > I have full regard and respect for what you have doen for VA, but not for

your hasty Judgements.. ..plz.Kindly leave the judgement about myself to

me-Thanks.

> >

> > YES, I agree the PHYSICAL existence of planets could be different from

ACTUAL - as suggested by you, as it is essentially the ASTRAL ENERGIES of the

planets we feel.

> >

> > Hand it not been the case the MANTRAS fro planets- which deal with ASTRAL

ENERGY..would not have worked...

> >

> > Let us be CONSTUCTIVE to solve probelms.... I have just sugegsted a

SCIENTIFIC PROCESS- which is fair..

> >

> > Thanks...

> >

> > Punkajj C Dhar

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Pankaj ji,

> > >

> > > You are too hasty. Either you did not read my message fully, or you did

not even paid a cursory look at the four webpages I gave links of. If four pages

are too much for you, you can look at a single page http://jyotirvidya.

wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death which contains something useful if you

really want to check. If these data do not satisfy you, you must be more

explicit in stating what you really want.

> > >

> > > I never blamed anyone for not not using my software. I made a free

software and I put it on internet just three months ago. I never advertised it

commercially, hence the lack of publicity it has. But 950 persons downloaded it

during 3 months. Only a small team a perticular state is after my flesh and

blood, sending me obscene messages and disrupting all my attempts to start any

discussion. Same persons had predicted that I will later sell my software. I

found a website where someone unsuccessfully tried to sell my software :

> > >

> > > Download kundalee free software - Downloads Free - kundalee ... - 4 visits

- 4 Aprkundalee free. kundalee search. Buy kundalee. Collection of free

software download, free game download and desktop stuff, including themes,

wallpapers and ...

> > > www.10001downloads. com/s/kundalee. html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages -

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Pom <pankajdhar@ >

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:07:07 PM

> > > FAIR?? ATTN: MR VINAY JHA- evalauation. ..of software?Re: C

> > >

> > > Dear Mr. Jha- I think I would not agree with your assertions to be

anywhere near fair.( my humble apologies for drawing such a conclusion).

> > >

> > > a) You make an assertion- blaming people that they don't want to use your

ephemeris...

> > >

> > > b) When asked a very fair and basic data( 10 data points, not

thousands... ).....you are not ready..

> > >

> > > I think you want people to research on your software..without giving the

basic data which is being asked for...?

> > >

> > > There is a scientific process- which needs to be followed, not what I or

your decide on matters....

> > >

> > > I am sure with A)10 data points from you( This is the KNOWN dat points-

first one needs to be sure on this..how correct our assertions are), and B)10 or

more random points(once your theory is proven to be correct fro the cases- could

it be generalized for random points, very basic)- atleast it would be

clear..whether one should invest energy in it, why should one invest and where

should one invest.

> > >

> > > This is standard procedure... .

> > >

> > > I don't think so I would be interested in going the way...

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Punkajj

> > >

> > > PS: There is an astrolger fairly senior, claimed he could predict

weather....which made me happy and I asked him the same questions..he declined..

> > >

> > > Then I went to him with a known case of cancer(which by GOD's garce I was

some how able to isolotae which body part it would be and if it could be cause

of death..but not to 100% exactitude.. .- he just ..could not talk about very

basic things- ..the core reason being most of the " claims " though thought to be

...were not true...- But I do still respect what he contributed to astrology.

> > >

> > > This has no reflection on you or your work- great keep up your spirit...

> > > Thanks...

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > If you make a survey of http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/sitemap, you

will find method of using my software in following webpages :

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Interpretation+ of+Horoscope+

%3A+Basics

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Origin+and+ Meaning+of+

Horoscopic+ Houses

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> > > >

> > > > Examples of mundane astrology is at :

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010

> > > >

> > > > I have extensive material of case studies, but in Hindi.

> > > > I carried out extensive comaparative studies wrt other softwares, but I

do not want to publish the results because those softwares developers will feel

insulted. I can send my comments on such comparative studies by others.

> > > >

> > > > I do not even know whether you have installed my software or not. If you

have not used my software, no amount of proof or argument will ever convince you

of anything in it : a software can be tested only by testing. I can give more

case studies on my website, but my experience is that there are two types of

persons : one who wants me to do all the testing and has no time to read my

results, and the other installs my software and tests it and then discusses with

me.

> > > >

> > > > I fully agree with your suggestions on method of testing softwares. But

when I started giving results of such tests at

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

> > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> > > > I was told that birthtime of these persons may be doubtful. I can work

on only those horoscopes which belong to celebrities with correct birthtime.

Numerous researches have been done on Hitler and Napoleon, and I work on the

basis of reliable sources only.

> > > > Mundane astrology is better field for tests, because official data of

national income or rainfall do not lie. are you ready to make a comparative

testing of softwares on the basis of such official and undisputed data ?

> > > > Good Wishes,

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Pom <pankajdhar@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:44:09 AM

> > > > ATTN: MR VINAY JHA- evalauation. ..of software?Re:

Cardinal Problems of Vedic

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. Jha- i did browse through the sites pointed by you.

> > > >

> > > > IN nay case- any sincere effort done for VA is praise worthy.

> > > >

> > > > Also as exact identification of JYOTISH REMEDY has to close do with the

exact planetary energy whihc is causing problem. So GANITA and PHALITA could

ahve an impact.

> > > >

> > > > This si my humble sugegstion to validate your sofware. Though to

sceintficially validate it might take tens and thousands of cases. Let us start

simple.

> > > >

> > > > STEP 1:

> > > > =======

> > > > Can you collect or present 10 cases with information like.

> > > >

> > > > a) What interpretetion one can draw based on some reference ephemeric

which you are contradicting.

> > > >

> > > > b) Based on your ephemeris

> > > >

> > > > c) Exact description in detail of the vent

> > > >

> > > > d) How the difefrence in divsiiosnal chart makes the difference?

> > > >

> > > > STEP 2:

> > > > =======

> > > >

> > > > Then we will take RANDOM EVENTS of eney one's life and apply to your

GANITA/epehemiris?

> > > >

> > > > I hoep this makes sense? If it does.

> > > >

> > > > I will wait fro your inputs on STEP1.

> > > >

> > > > I might spend a few minutes to put my views on the forum- so could other

astrologers for the same of growth of VA.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > @Punkajj C Dhar :

> > > > > Punkaj Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > a) You can download free Kundalee software from :

> > > > > http://kundalee. wikidot.com/ start

> > > > >

> > > > > For installation method and other articles, scan

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/

> > > > >

> > > > > There are many articles and practical examples.

> > > > >

> > > > > b)Could I make a software without any theory? But a handful of persons

have decided that my software must be rejected without any test. That is why I

am stressing Practice.

> > > > >

> > > > > c)

> > > > > i) My comments on divisional were same as you got.

> > > > > ii) " The issue is NOT ONLY WITH CALCULATIONs- but with the

INERPRETETIONS ... " . Yes, but I feel the basic rules of phalita are not

questionable. There is controversy in computations, eg of ayanamsha & c.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks..

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > > ============ ======= ============ ========= =

> > > > > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@ > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Mr. Jha,

> > > > > > The points raised by you are pertinent.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A few things before we converge to anything concrete.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a) I could nto locate any thing on the URL's given by you- coudl you

please give

> > > > > >

> > > > > > it again?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b) You made an assertion that eventaully it is practsie which makes

the difference.. .no theory-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I MAY NOT AGREE FULLY.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ATOM BOMB basic theory came frist to einsten/Otto hahn..later it was

tested in Hroshima..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bot have a role to play..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > c)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i) Not sure what your commenst of your divisional charts are?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If the changes due to ayamsa are only 1 degree, then in decanate the

impact would be say only on 10 % cases..but may be more on navamsa....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ii) The issue is NOT ONLY WITH CALCULATIONs- but with the

INERPRETETIONS due to complexity of the VA or any other similar system..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > d) Anyways....could i have your DATA and INTERPRETETION PLEASE?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > REgards,

> > > > > > Punkajj C Dhar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vrkrishnan ji,

> > > > > > > You say " veidc Jyotish is not Ganit Jyotish " . A strange remark !

Ganita and Phalita are inseparable parts of Jyotisha. Famous astrologers like KN

Rao ji and others you name have worked well to popularize phalita jyotisha. Many

people have no doubts about the Ganita portion and regard physical astronomy as

the only true option in the realm of Ganita Jyotisha. You also expressed similar

views. Hence, I conclude that the unanimous decisiopn of four universities in

favour of Suryasiddhanta has no weight for you, you do not want to test their

model ( see the bottom of page : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ accepted_ by_CAOS%2C_ IISc

> > > > > > > and also see : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials

)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not want wordy arguments. You do not want to compare two

methods, and are in favour of one, rejecting the other without even testing. You

do not know what you are rejecting.

> > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , vattem krishnan

<bursar_99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Ji,

> > > > > > > > like all arts and sciences,vedic Astrology too has been

evolving.In the process the principles of Vedical Astrology are being tested

every by several scholars at different places.Now veidc Astrology has also made

it's own place in universities at abroad.The subject has grown from veidc times

till now and definetely the credit for this goes to Internet also.

> > > > > > > > Infact our sages have debated for long and inferred that veidc

Jyotish is not Ganit Jyotish.it is some thing connecetd with the wisdom of

ancient sages to understand seven planets and their cosmic effects on humanity.

> > > > > > > > The question however relates to credibility of the subject

itself when we think in terms of main problems in vedic Astrology.

> > > > > > > > Vedic Astrology has made significant strides with the initiative

take late Shri B.V.Raman and others.Infact he has adopted his own way of

calculation even though that might not be agreed upon by others.Indian Council

for Astrology a body created for promoting Astrology teaches students the

concepts of jyotish as conveyed by jaimini,Parashara and Varahmihira. Even they

too have difference in their understanding of vedic jyotish.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What ever may the process adopted,if an Astrologer based on

vedic principles of Astrology is able to analyse and come out with predictions

in a convincing manner,no body would question the apparoch

> > > > > > > > .Indirectly it is we humans would like to see the calculations

as 2+2=4.It is here probably we are getting into issue which has not so much

relevance to traditional and conventional principles of jyotish.

> > > > > > > > Accuracy and a generaised approach as in scientic methods is the

expectation of many people to keep their trust in Astrology as a predictive tool

and unfold about future.

> > > > > > > > Secondly,we want the vast knowledge embedded in vedic sciences

into a progarammable language so that it's availability and applicationbecomes

more wider.In the process the astronomical factors relating to the movements of

the planets and their precison assumes greater significance to come out

universal data that can convince not only modern jyotishsis but also siddhantis

and pundits who have studied the nature and set up astronomical parks to measure

the movements of planets.

> > > > > > > > Infact in most of the sanskrit universities sevaral jantarmanatr

type parks have also been created.but their usage and to make the traditional

subject on scientific lines has not evinced interest.

> > > > > > > > A jyotishi/siddhanti/ Pandit in his own way has vision to

unravet the mysteries of planets.Even today Phalit jyotish courses being

conducted in snaskrit universities has wide acceptability.

> > > > > > > > problem however lies for us as internet users.we donot want to

go back to old days and make janampatris in ghatis and work out on the bais of

vimshottari dasa.

> > > > > > > > we have adopted to the use of computers andnever questioned it's

wisdom.Even BV Raman or for that Shri K.n.Rao of modern times have their own

approaches beleived them and use them with the aid of computer.But what matters

really are predictive abilities

> > > > > > > > Thirdly do we really want to see the Vedic Astrology principles

getting simplified and made into programmable languages for the status of Vedic

Astrology to be elevated as a real science.

> > > > > > > > Finally I believe in Vedic principles of Vedic Astrology and the

cosmic effects these planet exert on human endeavours.Non beleievers always have

their point of arguments to say that why two astrologers hand over two different

predictions.

> > > > > > > > Perhaps,usage of Internet or no Internet must be kept separate

and the subject of Vedic Astrology need to be conceptualised. it is here we need

long years of study,experience and intiative to study the charts to find the

problems of the native and help him.So it is not that we transgressing from good

olden concepts but trying to improve our predictive abilities so that jyotish as

an ancient wisdom is useful to the human being in his daily chores.

> > > > > > > > " Practical testing is the only proper way. " we all do this

either with or without the help of Internet.Might be in some occassion we give

room for others to find differences among us

> > > > > > > > It is true that " They have mastered the ancient methods more

than socalled experts of indology in the West.'

> > > > > > > > we hats off to them for the ceaseless effort and pursuit to

unravel the wisdom conatained in sastras

> > > > > > > > Absolutely forgetting about the ways in which the vedic Jyotish

is understood and various ways of inferences,we still hold high esteem to " Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened. "

> > > > > > > > This is where I think we have no qualms as we have interest to

listen Sanskrit scholars as they have really made effort to simplify the ancient

wisdom and helping others to publish books and materials.

> > > > > > > > This what Shri K.N.Rao and others are continuing their

efforts.Even Prof Pandy,Prof Nagar and Prof Tripathy Ji of sanskrit universities

ahve lot of followers and even today's media remebers them as and when their

role arises in clarifying complicated issues.

> > > > > > > > vrkrishnan

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > > > > > > > Main Problems of Vedic Astrology

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Monday, April 6, 2009, 11:46 AM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To All :-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet

forums and experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important

problem faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today

which give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha.

Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees

approximately. With all possible values of ayanamsha already having been

experimented with, has the problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any

astrologer feels he/she already has perfect softwares and barring a slight

readjustment of ayanamsha there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need

not read my messages, because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels

even with all types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate

prediction is never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must read this

thread.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also

erred on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts

together with their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all

sorts of interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life

events. After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems

are rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman

adopted Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate

of annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360

lunar days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says

full life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave

aside these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with

lunar year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also

experimented with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out

the third reform given below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the

true planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree.

This difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate

of one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological

softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have

options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or

substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true

planets and lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing

Kundalee software.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification,

because the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic

softwares. Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no

need to experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still

made from tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence,

majority of traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta

either knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be

> made on

> > > > the basis

> > > > > > > > of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional

India is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of

offset in positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts

absolutely accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover,

traditional predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic

computations.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the

operation of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining

Vimshottari timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya.

wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for

Planets of Mixed Attributes

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting

world economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+

%3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the

same page ; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint.

com/page/ 2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for

ascertaing whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be

used for making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a

difference of 6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in

Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in

horoscopes will make it easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which

will lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical

testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body

of traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these

pandits of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the

ancient methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods,

without personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity

of traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > > > > >

April 10, 2009

To Pankaj ji and Prashant ji :

What both of you are saying is what I was stressing from the beginning

in AIA and in other fora, but a dedicated team was adamant to test me

non-astrologically, by means of astronomy, literature and even abuses. I

had started a webpage ( Click Here

<http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Famous+Horoscopes.> ) in early

Jan 2009 for this very purpose, but could do little due to wastage of my

time over useless discussions ; I could prepare only four analyses about

Prediction of Death which is one of the most difficult fields in

astrology ( Click Here

<http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Prediction+of+Death> ) . I will

do what Pankaj ji wants. I need some time.

Good Wishes !

-VJ

=============== ===============

, " Pom " <pankajdhar wrote:

>

> I do very much agree with what prashant ji has said/metioned.

>

> Also as fine granularity would come only in:

> a) TIMING OF EVENTS

> ==================

>

> (assuming methods of interpretetion are synchronized/ that is same or

similar- )

>

> b) DIVISIONAL CHARTS

> ===================

>

> IN the 10 cases- It needs to be CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN- how the present

ephemeris(GANIT) fails?

>

> We may also need to come to a concurrence on PHALIT- on how to time

events...interpretetion of diseases/marriage or any thing from higher

charts..but that would come later.

>

> Dear Mr. Jha- this is the VERY BASIC WAY...

>

> I and all of us am for ASTROLOGY, then comes the ASTROLOGER..- all of

us ..

>

> You ahve made some points- which appear to be OK(grahas/planets...name

of the eminent people..you mentioend..but agin discrimination needs to

be there)..but to prove it even relatively conclusively- LET US ALL WORK

TOGETHER..that would be a WIN-WIN for all..

>

> Mr. Jha- it would in turn be a help to all...

>

> Regards,

> Punkajj C Dhar

>

> , Prashant Kumar G B gbp_kumar@

wrote:

> >

> > Vinay ji

> >

> > 2 points here

> >

> > 1st is when ucut and paste it does insert spaces near a . assuing it

is puncutation so USE Copy link option in such cases

> >

> > that is right click on the hyperlink u want to clip and paste

> > this will not add any spaces to it and willWORK effectively

> >

> > 2. oint

> >

> > probably now u got this right as the atmosphere is civilised and

cooler here

> >

> > // Should I put there ten case studies of well known personalities

from

> > Kundalee as well as from physical ephemeris ? Is that what you mean

//

> >

> > this is imperative to show both models of case studies

> >

> > with ur method

> > and with pouplar method

> >

> > and reason out the differences seperately comparing the 2 models

> >

> > and ask members to judge it for themselves

> >

> > it is better u do more cases studies like this do 10 per month and

will help u a lot as more ppl can be able to see that ur work is NOT

STATIC and is open for many cases.

> >

> > any clinical trial or lab process will take time and u have to be

the best person to do it and one or two who r closer2u can also sumbit

them analysis must be urs and theirs also

> >

> > I've still not found time to do many pending jobs of the past 2 yrs

I hope sonner I can spare sometime and will be good when u have more

examples of the said 2 models

> >

> > PONT 3

> >

> > DOES THIS model u advocate have retrogression of grahas

> >

> > as I know the Vaky amodel doesn't allow this say now sani moves to

Kanya on 9/9/9 and 4 months in Kanya, retrogrades to Simha later and

RE-ENTERS KANYA IN jUL 10 most vakya models will take that period only

not the inbetween period? is this the same model u follow

> >

> > thanks

> >

> > Prashant

> > Best wishes

> >

> > ________________________________

> > vinayjhaa16 vinayjhaa16@

> >

> > Friday, April 10, 2009 5:32:50 PM

> > Re: HASTE - GRAHAS Vs, PLanets?? ATTN: MR VINAY JHA-

evalauation...o

> >

> > Pankaj ji,

> > If you feel offended, I retract those words. I simply copy-pasted

and did not deliberately inserted spaces ; I do not know why links get

broken during pasting. If so happens, you can remove the extra space and

paste the address in address bar of your browser.

> >

> > Your original points were good, and I drew your attention to

webpages where I had already uploaded such examples. For instance, the

pages contain examples you should read :

> >

> > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

> >

> > If these examples do not suffice, I will add more for scrutiny.

Should I put there ten case studies of well known personalities from

Kundalee as well as from physical ephemeris ? Is that what you mean ?

But before that, can you not view the examples I have put on there ?

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============ ======== ============ ======

> > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Mr. Jha wrote " You are too hasty. "

> > >

> > > I trust you are also too hasty to read what I had written- with

due respect to you- you have in my humble opinion not tried to

understand the purport of my mail to you.

> > >

> > > Also : the site " http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ " -

sugegsted has INADVERATNT BLANKS- making it incorrect to acccess, is it

due to non haste I wonder sir?

> > >

> > > People would accept your sofware more easily if it is in the form

as sugegsted, with more cases proven and that also systematcially. You

do not need to tell people- one publciation would naturally attarct

people..and the case is proven....

> > >

> > > As I have some expereince in working and modelling complex

systems(inlcudes basic modelling and statistcial analysis- my apologies,

I ma not trying to falunt - justa FYI..), it is for your help I had

been suggesting.

> > >

> > > The hit and trail approach you are suggesting(Down laod and check

for your self is error prone,as different asrologers would interprete

differently- if you could expactly give your vewi point for 10 cases,

especially for divisional charts..that would clsoe the matter)...could

have alternatives. .

> > >

> > > I have full regard and respect for what you have doen for VA, but

not for your hasty Judgements.. ..plz.Kindly leave the judgement

about myself to me-Thanks.

> > >

> > > YES, I agree the PHYSICAL existence of planets could be different

from ACTUAL - as suggested by you, as it is essentially the ASTRAL

ENERGIES of the planets we feel.

> > >

> > > Hand it not been the case the MANTRAS fro planets- which deal with

ASTRAL ENERGY..would not have worked...

> > >

> > > Let us be CONSTUCTIVE to solve probelms.... I have just sugegsted

a SCIENTIFIC PROCESS- which is fair..

> > >

> > > Thanks...

> > >

> > > Punkajj C Dhar

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Pankaj ji,

> > > >

> > > > You are too hasty. Either you did not read my message fully, or

you did not even paid a cursory look at the four webpages I gave links

of. If four pages are too much for you, you can look at a single page

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death which

contains something useful if you really want to check. If these data do

not satisfy you, you must be more explicit in stating what you really

want.

> > > >

> > > > I never blamed anyone for not not using my software. I made a

free software and I put it on internet just three months ago. I never

advertised it commercially, hence the lack of publicity it has. But 950

persons downloaded it during 3 months. Only a small team a perticular

state is after my flesh and blood, sending me obscene messages and

disrupting all my attempts to start any discussion. Same persons had

predicted that I will later sell my software. I found a website where

someone unsuccessfully tried to sell my software :

> > > >

> > > > Download kundalee free software - Downloads Free - kundalee ...

- 4 visits - 4 Aprkundalee free. kundalee search. Buy kundalee.

Collection of free software download, free game download and desktop

stuff, including themes, wallpapers and ...

> > > > www.10001downloads. com/s/kundalee. html - 33k - Cached -

Similar pages -

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Pom <pankajdhar@ >

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:07:07 PM

> > > > FAIR?? ATTN: MR VINAY JHA- evalauation. ..of

software?Re: C

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. Jha- I think I would not agree with your assertions to

be anywhere near fair.( my humble apologies for drawing such a

conclusion).

> > > >

> > > > a) You make an assertion- blaming people that they don't want to

use your ephemeris...

> > > >

> > > > b) When asked a very fair and basic data( 10 data points, not

thousands... ).....you are not ready..

> > > >

> > > > I think you want people to research on your software..without

giving the basic data which is being asked for...?

> > > >

> > > > There is a scientific process- which needs to be followed, not

what I or your decide on matters....

> > > >

> > > > I am sure with A)10 data points from you( This is the KNOWN dat

points- first one needs to be sure on this..how correct our assertions

are), and B)10 or more random points(once your theory is proven to be

correct fro the cases- could it be generalized for random points, very

basic)- atleast it would be clear..whether one should invest energy in

it, why should one invest and where should one invest.

> > > >

> > > > This is standard procedure... .

> > > >

> > > > I don't think so I would be interested in going the way...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > Punkajj

> > > >

> > > > PS: There is an astrolger fairly senior, claimed he could

predict weather....which made me happy and I asked him the same

questions..he declined..

> > > >

> > > > Then I went to him with a known case of cancer(which by GOD's

garce I was some how able to isolotae which body part it would be and if

it could be cause of death..but not to 100% exactitude.. .- he just

...could not talk about very basic things- ..the core reason being most

of the " claims " though thought to be ..were not true...- But I do still

respect what he contributed to astrology.

> > > >

> > > > This has no reflection on you or your work- great keep up your

spirit...

> > > > Thanks...

> > > >

> > > > , Vinay Jha

<vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > If you make a survey of http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/sitemap, you will find method of using my software in following

webpages :

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Interpretation+

of+Horoscope+ %3A+Basics

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Origin+and+

Meaning+of+ Horoscopic+ Houses

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> > > > >

> > > > > Examples of mundane astrology is at :

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+

%3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010

> > > > >

> > > > > I have extensive material of case studies, but in Hindi.

> > > > > I carried out extensive comaparative studies wrt other

softwares, but I do not want to publish the results because those

softwares developers will feel insulted. I can send my comments on such

comparative studies by others.

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not even know whether you have installed my software or

not. If you have not used my software, no amount of proof or argument

will ever convince you of anything in it : a software can be tested only

by testing. I can give more case studies on my website, but my

experience is that there are two types of persons : one who wants me to

do all the testing and has no time to read my results, and the other

installs my software and tests it and then discusses with me.

> > > > >

> > > > > I fully agree with your suggestions on method of testing

softwares. But when I started giving results of such tests at

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death

> > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha

> > > > > I was told that birthtime of these persons may be doubtful. I

can work on only those horoscopes which belong to celebrities with

correct birthtime. Numerous researches have been done on Hitler and

Napoleon, and I work on the basis of reliable sources only.

> > > > > Mundane astrology is better field for tests, because official

data of national income or rainfall do not lie. are you ready to make a

comparative testing of softwares on the basis of such official and

undisputed data ?

> > > > > Good Wishes,

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > Pom <pankajdhar@ ...>

> > > > >

> > > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:44:09 AM

> > > > > ATTN: MR VINAY JHA- evalauation. ..of

software?Re: Cardinal Problems of Vedic

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. Jha- i did browse through the sites pointed by you.

> > > > >

> > > > > IN nay case- any sincere effort done for VA is praise worthy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also as exact identification of JYOTISH REMEDY has to close do

with the exact planetary energy whihc is causing problem. So GANITA and

PHALITA could ahve an impact.

> > > > >

> > > > > This si my humble sugegstion to validate your sofware. Though

to sceintficially validate it might take tens and thousands of cases.

Let us start simple.

> > > > >

> > > > > STEP 1:

> > > > > =======

> > > > > Can you collect or present 10 cases with information like.

> > > > >

> > > > > a) What interpretetion one can draw based on some reference

ephemeric which you are contradicting.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) Based on your ephemeris

> > > > >

> > > > > c) Exact description in detail of the vent

> > > > >

> > > > > d) How the difefrence in divsiiosnal chart makes the

difference?

> > > > >

> > > > > STEP 2:

> > > > > =======

> > > > >

> > > > > Then we will take RANDOM EVENTS of eney one's life and apply

to your GANITA/epehemiris?

> > > > >

> > > > > I hoep this makes sense? If it does.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will wait fro your inputs on STEP1.

> > > > >

> > > > > I might spend a few minutes to put my views on the forum- so

could other astrologers for the same of growth of VA.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @Punkajj C Dhar :

> > > > > > Punkaj Ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a) You can download free Kundalee software from :

> > > > > > http://kundalee. wikidot.com/ start

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For installation method and other articles, scan

> > > > > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are many articles and practical examples.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b)Could I make a software without any theory? But a handful

of persons have decided that my software must be rejected without any

test. That is why I am stressing Practice.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > c)

> > > > > > i) My comments on divisional were same as you got.

> > > > > > ii) " The issue is NOT ONLY WITH CALCULATIONs- but with the

INERPRETETIONS ... " . Yes, but I feel the basic rules of phalita are not

questionable. There is controversy in computations, eg of ayanamsha & c.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks..

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > ============ ======= ============ ========= =

> > > > > > , " Pom "

<pankajdhar@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Mr. Jha,

> > > > > > > The points raised by you are pertinent.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A few things before we converge to anything concrete.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > a) I could nto locate any thing on the URL's given by you-

coudl you please give

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > it again?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b) You made an assertion that eventaully it is practsie

which makes the difference.. .no theory-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I MAY NOT AGREE FULLY.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ATOM BOMB basic theory came frist to einsten/Otto

hahn..later it was tested in Hroshima..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bot have a role to play..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > c)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i) Not sure what your commenst of your divisional charts

are?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If the changes due to ayamsa are only 1 degree, then in

decanate the impact would be say only on 10 % cases..but may be more on

navamsa....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ii) The issue is NOT ONLY WITH CALCULATIONs- but with the

INERPRETETIONS due to complexity of the VA or any other similar system..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > d) Anyways....could i have your DATA and INTERPRETETION

PLEASE?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > REgards,

> > > > > > > Punkajj C Dhar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " vinayjhaa16 "

<vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vrkrishnan ji,

> > > > > > > > You say " veidc Jyotish is not Ganit Jyotish " . A strange

remark ! Ganita and Phalita are inseparable parts of Jyotisha. Famous

astrologers like KN Rao ji and others you name have worked well to

popularize phalita jyotisha. Many people have no doubts about the Ganita

portion and regard physical astronomy as the only true option in the

realm of Ganita Jyotisha. You also expressed similar views. Hence, I

conclude that the unanimous decisiopn of four universities in favour of

Suryasiddhanta has no weight for you, you do not want to test their

model ( see the bottom of page : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ accepted_ by_CAOS%2C_ IISc

> > > > > > > > and also see : http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Credentials )

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I do not want wordy arguments. You do not want to

compare two methods, and are in favour of one, rejecting the other

without even testing. You do not know what you are rejecting.

> > > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , vattem

krishnan <bursar_99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Ji,

> > > > > > > > > like all arts and sciences,vedic Astrology too has

been evolving.In the process the principles of Vedical Astrology are

being tested every by several scholars at different places.Now veidc

Astrology has also made it's own place in universities at abroad.The

subject has grown from veidc times till now and definetely the credit

for this goes to Internet also.

> > > > > > > > > Infact our sages have debated for long and inferred

that veidc Jyotish is not Ganit Jyotish.it is some thing connecetd with

the wisdom of ancient sages to understand seven planets and their cosmic

effects on humanity.

> > > > > > > > > The question however relates to credibility of the

subject itself when we think in terms of main problems in vedic

Astrology.

> > > > > > > > > Vedic Astrology has made significant strides with the

initiative take late Shri B.V.Raman and others.Infact he has adopted

his own way of calculation even though that might not be agreed upon by

others.Indian Council for Astrology a body created for promoting

Astrology teaches students the concepts of jyotish as conveyed by

jaimini,Parashara and Varahmihira. Even they too have difference in

their understanding of vedic jyotish.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What ever may the process adopted,if an Astrologer

based on vedic principles of Astrology is able to analyse and come out

with predictions in a convincing manner,no body would question the

apparoch

> > > > > > > > > .Indirectly it is we humans would like to see the

calculations as 2+2=4.It is here probably we are getting into issue

which has not so much relevance to traditional and conventional

principles of jyotish.

> > > > > > > > > Accuracy and a generaised approach as in scientic

methods is the expectation of many people to keep their trust in

Astrology as a predictive tool and unfold about future.

> > > > > > > > > Secondly,we want the vast knowledge embedded in vedic

sciences into a progarammable language so that it's availability and

applicationbecomes more wider.In the process the astronomical factors

relating to the movements of the planets and their precison assumes

greater significance to come out universal data that can convince not

only modern jyotishsis but also siddhantis and pundits who have studied

the nature and set up astronomical parks to measure the movements of

planets.

> > > > > > > > > Infact in most of the sanskrit universities sevaral

jantarmanatr type parks have also been created.but their usage and to

make the traditional subject on scientific lines has not evinced

interest.

> > > > > > > > > A jyotishi/siddhanti/ Pandit in his own way has vision

to unravet the mysteries of planets.Even today Phalit jyotish courses

being conducted in snaskrit universities has wide acceptability.

> > > > > > > > > problem however lies for us as internet users.we donot

want to go back to old days and make janampatris in ghatis and work out

on the bais of vimshottari dasa.

> > > > > > > > > we have adopted to the use of computers andnever

questioned it's wisdom.Even BV Raman or for that Shri K.n.Rao of modern

times have their own approaches beleived them and use them with the aid

of computer.But what matters really are predictive abilities

> > > > > > > > > Thirdly do we really want to see the Vedic Astrology

principles getting simplified and made into programmable languages for

the status of Vedic Astrology to be elevated as a real science.

> > > > > > > > > Finally I believe in Vedic principles of Vedic

Astrology and the cosmic effects these planet exert on human

endeavours.Non beleievers always have their point of arguments to say

that why two astrologers hand over two different predictions.

> > > > > > > > > Perhaps,usage of Internet or no Internet must be kept

separate and the subject of Vedic Astrology need to be conceptualised.

it is here we need long years of study,experience and intiative to study

the charts to find the problems of the native and help him.So it is not

that we transgressing from good olden concepts but trying to improve our

predictive abilities so that jyotish as an ancient wisdom is useful to

the human being in his daily chores.

> > > > > > > > > " Practical testing is the only proper way. " we all do

this either with or without the help of Internet.Might be in some

occassion we give room for others to find differences among us

> > > > > > > > > It is true that " They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West.'

> > > > > > > > > we hats off to them for the ceaseless effort and

pursuit to unravel the wisdom conatained in sastras

> > > > > > > > > Absolutely forgetting about the ways in which the

vedic Jyotish is understood and various ways of inferences,we still hold

high esteem to " Vedic Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of

traditional pandits must be listened. "

> > > > > > > > > This is where I think we have no qualms as we have

interest to listen Sanskrit scholars as they have really made effort to

simplify the ancient wisdom and helping others to publish books and

materials.

> > > > > > > > > This what Shri K.N.Rao and others are continuing their

efforts.Even Prof Pandy,Prof Nagar and Prof Tripathy Ji of sanskrit

universities ahve lot of followers and even today's media remebers them

as and when their role arises in clarifying complicated issues.

> > > > > > > > > vrkrishnan

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 4/6/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > > > > > > > > Main Problems of Vedic Astrology

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Monday, April 6, 2009, 11:46 AM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To All :-

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various

internet forums and experiments made by astrological software makers,

the most important problem faced by Vedic astrologers is that of

Ayanamsha. All other problems of mathematical portion of astrology seems

to have been finally resolved by modern physical scientists. Since the

basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology have not been questioned

by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring ayanamsha there is

no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the

market today which give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any

value of ayanamsha. Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from

over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With all possible values of

ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the problem of a

foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she already

has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my

messages, because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even

with all types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate

prediction is never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must

read this thread.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I

have also erred on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account

all charts together with their due weightage. There were numerous

occassions when with all sorts of interpretations I could not get

satisfactory explanations of real life events. After decades of

research, I found out that most of our current problems are rooted in

our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results.

BV Raman adopted Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he

added modern rate of annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid

one, very near to Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also

Suryasiddhantic, with negligible difference.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar,

based 360 lunar days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon.

Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years

are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside these arguments, perfect

timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar year used for

Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented with

this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference

from the true planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to

over a degree. This difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again

started rising, at the rate of one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern

astrological softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other

softwares have options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also

have optons for adding or substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it

contained similar offsets for true planets and lagna, it would have

saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee software.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some

clarification, because the first two points have already been adopted in

many famous vedic softwares. Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an

outdated text and there is no need to experiment with it. They know

majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables based on

Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from

softwares, and a large number of these traditional astrologers declare

that Suryasiddhantic horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that

horoscopes based on modern astronomy. That is why astrologers of many

states of India , led by four Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided

in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi that all panchangas ought to be

> > made on

> > > > > the basis

> > > > > > > > > of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this

traditional India is not duly represented on the internet because most

Sanskrit pandits have little or no experience of computers and internet.

That is why some computerized astrologers think the voice of traditional

Indian astrology must be forcibly suppressed because this

" anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one

degree of offset in positions of true planets, which will make all

divisional charts absolutely accurate for all natives whose birthtime is

accurate. Moreover, traditional predictive rules work in perfect harmony

with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for

seeing the operation of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya.

wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining

Vimshottari timings of events. One example is displayed at

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title

Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed Attributes

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is

forecasting world economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr

2010 in the same page ; third example is rain forecast

(http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ 2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+

(from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for

ascertaing whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets

ought to be used for making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at

Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7 raashis due to over half a degree

difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern asteronomical Sun. Such a

great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to see which conforms

more to real events.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word

duel which will lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will

not help. Practical testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to

crush the voice of a great body of traditional India just because it has

no presence on internet. All these pandits of Sanskrit universities are

not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient methods more than

socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both

methods, without personal attacks. Those who are not interested in

examining the validity of traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > > > > > >

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