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Posted

Namasthe

 

Dear Sri Vinay Jha

 

I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

 

There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

 

Kindly look into the problems.

 

warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

 

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> To All :-

>

> As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

>

> But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give the

user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

>

> Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on many

occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with their

due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

>

> 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

>

> 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

>

> 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true planets

of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

>

> If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

>

> Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the basis of Suryasiddhanta.

Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is not duly represented on the

internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little or no experience of computers

and internet. That is why some computerized astrologers think the voice of

traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly suppressed because this

" anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

>

> The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

>

> One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of rules

of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Prediction+of+Death

).

>

> Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings of

events. One example is displayed at

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/Vimshottari+Dasha under title Vimshottari

Timings for Planets of Mixed Attributes

>

> Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world economy (

http://jyotirvidya.wetpaint.com/page/World+Economy+%3A+Apr+2009-Mar+2010 ) ;

another example is

> Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast

(http://weatherindia.wetpaint.com/page/2007%3AAnnual+Rain+Forecast+(from+Apr)+fo\

r+South+Asia).

>

> Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomical planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

>

> It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us to

nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is the

only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of traditional

India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits of Sanskrit

universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient methods more

than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a traditional

discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

>

> I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without personal

attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of traditional

scholarship may keep away.

>

> -VJ

> ============== ===========

>

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Posted
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@A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

 

The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in the

Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into English

and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing pages of

English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many astrologers said

they can read Hindi but want English input.

 

 

Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results will more

than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your experiences about

the astrological results.

 

-VJ

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe

 

Dear Sri Vinay Jha

 

I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

 

There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

 

Kindly look into the problems.

 

warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

>

> To All :-

>

> As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

>

> But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give the

user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

>

> Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on many

occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with their

due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

>

> 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

>

> 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

>

> 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true planets

of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

>

> If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

>

> Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is not

duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little or no

experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized astrologers

think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly suppressed

because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

>

> The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

>

> One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of rules

of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

>

> Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings of

events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

>

> Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world economy (

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010 )

; another example is

> Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+(from+Apr)+for+ South+Asia) .

>

> Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

>

> It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us to

nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is the

only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of traditional

India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits of Sanskrit

universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient methods more

than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a traditional

discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

>

> I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without personal

attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of traditional

scholarship may keep away.

>

> -VJ

> ============ == ===========

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Namasthe

 

Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather it is

understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

 

I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

 

Mean while may I surmise your view points.

1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

 

 

I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of the

above.

 

regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

 

 

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

>

> The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in the

Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into English

and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing pages of

English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many astrologers said

they can read Hindi but want English input.

>

>

> Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results will

more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your experiences

about the astrological results.

>

> -VJ

>

>

> ________________________________

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Dear Sri Vinay Jha

>

> I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

>

> There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

>

> Kindly look into the problems.

>

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > To All :-

> >

> > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> >

> > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give the

user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> >

> > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on many

occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with their

due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> >

> > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> >

> > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> >

> > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true planets

of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> >

> > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> >

> > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

> basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> >

> > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> >

> > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> >

> > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings

of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

> >

> > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world economy

( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010

) ; another example is

> > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+(from+Apr)+for+ South+Asia) .

> >

> > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

> >

> > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us

to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> >

> > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without personal

attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of traditional

scholarship may keep away.

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============ == ===========

> >

>

 

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A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

 

All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

accurate. "

 

The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions where

originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ). But

remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

 

You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

 

" This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology, and I

think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets are

different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

 

"

 

-VJ

 

 

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe

 

Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather it is

understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

 

I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

 

Mean while may I surmise your view points.

1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

 

I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of the

above.

 

regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

>

> The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in the

Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into English

and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing pages of

English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many astrologers said

they can read Hindi but want English input.

>

>

> Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results will

more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your experiences

about the astrological results.

>

> -VJ

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Dear Sri Vinay Jha

>

> I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

>

> There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

>

> Kindly look into the problems.

>

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > To All :-

> >

> > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> >

> > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give the

user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> >

> > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on many

occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with their

due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> >

> > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> >

> > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> >

> > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true planets

of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> >

> > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> >

> > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

> basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> >

> > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> >

> > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> >

> > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings

of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

> >

> > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world economy

( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009- Mar+2010

) ; another example is

> > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> >

> > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

> >

> > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us

to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> >

> > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without personal

attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of traditional

scholarship may keep away.

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============ == ===========

> >

>

 

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Posted
Posted

Namasthe,

 

Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

 

You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two parts,

as

A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha).

 

Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

 

A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

 

When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

 

Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

 

 

Kindly reflect.

warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

>

> All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> accurate. "

>

> The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

>

> You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

>

> " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology, and

I

> think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets are

> different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

>

>

"

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather it

is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

>

> I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

>

> Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

>

> I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of the

above.

>

> regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> >

> > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> >

> >

> > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results will

more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your experiences

about the astrological results.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> >

> > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> >

> > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> >

> > Kindly look into the problems.

> >

> > warm regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > To All :-

> > >

> > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > >

> > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > >

> > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > >

> > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > >

> > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > >

> > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > >

> > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > >

> > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

> > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > >

> > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > >

> > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > >

> > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings

of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

> > >

> > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > >

> > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

> > >

> > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us

to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > >

> > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ============ == ===========

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Shenoy ji,

 

I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

 

You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

 

If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

 

If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

 

Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

 

-VJ

 

 

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe,

 

Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

 

You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two parts,

as

A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

 

Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

 

A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

 

When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

 

Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

 

Kindly reflect.

warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

>

> All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> accurate. "

>

> The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

>

> You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

>

> " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology, and

I

> think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets are

> different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

>

> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather it

is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

>

> I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

>

> Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

>

> I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of the

above.

>

> regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> >

> > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> >

> >

> > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results will

more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your experiences

about the astrological results.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> >

> > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> >

> > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> >

> > Kindly look into the problems.

> >

> > warm regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > To All :-

> > >

> > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > >

> > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > >

> > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > >

> > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > >

> > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > >

> > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > >

> > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > >

> > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because the

first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares. Some

people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to experiment

with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from tables

based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

> > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > >

> > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > >

> > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > >

> > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari timings

of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed

Attributes

> > >

> > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page ;

third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > >

> > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing whether

Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for making

horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of 6-7

raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and modern

asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it easier to

see which conforms more to real events.

> > >

> > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead us

to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > >

> > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > > ============ == ===========

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH.. "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasannastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro.aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{}brahmasiddhaantaH saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau.. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to

" kaladeshapramanena " , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place /

period / century etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandakovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very well

be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India

is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Sir,

When i was part of rashtriya sanskrit University <new Delhi for some time this

issue " Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough " was always in the minds of academic

members.The impact of prediction does not just come from the  calculations

also.This is what I just mentioned abinitio.

For testing software and to have some astro data,i do not thing we need to have

much apprehension as the Kundalee that comes of of the software is just a format

for us to ponder over.Like any other chart we make out of available soft wares

vrkrishnan

 

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag wrote:

 

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 3:08 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to " kaladeshapramanena

" , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place / period / century

etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
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Krishnan dada,

 

<I hope you have stopped laughing by now after reading my peasANT joke posted

minutes ago!> ... It is actually SAD that despite so many brilliant minds and

souls being at it, and I am not even talking about ancient Rishis who we were

told were spiritual Giants and so on -- I am referring to more modern DOYENS

from the 1800s to today and many have arrived with their writings and wisdom and

massive followings! NONE of them have managed to lift Jyotish or its place in

society even one inch! They have all failed! Just look around and see the

confusion even amongst dedicated jyotish fora and the internal squabbles and so

on and so forth!

 

For the most part the problem has been that Jyotish had been preached to the

converted! Even when Raman or Rao went abroad to teach Jyotish, they were really

addressing not the west but those who already had leaning towards the eastern

thought and eastern ways!

 

Unlike Vivekananda or Yogananda!

 

Maybe we must wait for the next AWATAAR!

 

RR

 

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote:

>

> Sir,

> When i was part of rashtriya sanskrit University <new Delhi for some time this

issue " Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough " was always in the minds of academic

members.The impact of prediction does not just come from the  calculations

also.This is what I just mentioned abinitio.

> For testing software and to have some astro data,i do not thing we need to

have much apprehension as the Kundalee that comes of of the software is just a

format for us to ponder over.Like any other chart we make out of available soft

wares

> vrkrishnan

>

> --- On Thu, 4/9/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag wrote:

>

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009, 3:08 PM

>

>

Namasthe

>

> Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

>

> More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations

alone & the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

>

> " braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

> siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

>

> The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

>

> " spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

> sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

>

> Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

>

> " kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

> kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

>

> Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa

is clear. But the other are never accurate.

>

> The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years

back, a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim.

Further, Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to

" kaladeshapramanena " , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place

/ period / century etc.

>

> There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

>

> It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

>

> Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

>

> anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

> uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

>

> One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas †" this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

>

> Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

>

> Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

>

> Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

>

> Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

>

> with warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Shenoy ji,

> >

> > I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

> >

> > You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

> >

> > If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

> >

> > If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

> >

> > Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe,

> >

> > Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

> >

> > You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> > A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation

> > b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

> >

> > Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up

another argument.

> >

> > A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> > b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

> >

> > When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time,

In old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

> >

> > Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or

convey any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " -

that which has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally

there should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " &

" but " , one cannot write a software.

> >

> > Kindly reflect.

> > warm regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> > >

> > > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say

: " All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > > accurate. "

> > >

> > > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> > >

> > > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> > >

> > > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> > >

> > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> > >

> > > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> > >

> > > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> > >

> > > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> > >

> > > regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > > >

> > > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely

in the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Namasthe

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > > >

> > > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > > >

> > > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > > >

> > > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > > >

> > > > warm regards

> > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > >

> > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > To All :-

> > > > >

> > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > >

> > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which

give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha.

Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees

approximately. With all possible values of ayanamsha already having been

experimented with, has the problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any

astrologer feels he/she already has perfect softwares and barring a slight

readjustment of ayanamsha there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need

not read my messages, because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels

even with all types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate

prediction is never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must read this

thread.

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred

on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together

with their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar

days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full

life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave

aside these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with

lunar year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also

experimented with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out

the third reform given below.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological

softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have

options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or

substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true

planets and lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing

Kundalee software.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

> the

> > > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India

is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > >

> > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset

in positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > > >

> > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation

of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same

page ; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will

lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical

testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body

of traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these

pandits of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the

ancient methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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Shenoy ji,

 

The verses you quoted from Prasna Marg were based upon an earlier work :

Panchsiddhantika of Varah Mihir.

 

Why you guessed I have anything new about " Time " ? I used standard methods of

computing birthtime.. Did you guess I used lunar time everywhere ? There is no

hidden thing in Kundalee, and I've already explained what are its unique

features.

 

Varah Mihir used different method of dasha, but neither he nor anyone else has

ever said that " Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond to all the events

in ones life " . BPHS clearly gives a long list of three typres of dashas :

 

(1) Vimshottari, which has no condition and no opponent, and is therefore

universally applicable.

(2) Nine other nakshatra based dasha which work when certain conditions are

fulfilled.

(3) Other dashas, about which BPHS says that they are not universally accepted.

 

All your suspicions will be removed when you start using the English pages of

English version of Kundalee ; you need not touch Hindi pages which are less

important and are seldom needed. Complete translation into English will take a

long time : why you do not believe me that only those pages are in Hindi alone

which you will hardly need in actual practice.

 

-VJ

 

 

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 12:38:54 AM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to " kaladeshapramanena

" , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place / period / century

etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own.. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread..

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116..4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India

is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Sir,

Accuracy of prediction depends on two things : accuracy of computations, and

quality of the astrologer. A software can take care of only the computational

part, it cannot convert a nakshatra-soochaka into a jyotishi.

 

-VJ

 

 

 

 

________________________________

vattem krishnan <bursar_99

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 6:41:31 AM

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Sir,

When i was part of rashtriya sanskrit University <new Delhi for some time this

issue " Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough " was always in the minds of academic

members.The impact of prediction does not just come from the calculations

also.This is what I just mentioned abinitio.

For testing software and to have some astro data,i do not thing we need to have

much apprehension as the Kundalee that comes of of the software is just a format

for us to ponder over.Like any other chart we make out of available soft wares

vrkrishnan

 

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > wrote:

 

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ >

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 3:08 PM

 

Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to " kaladeshapramanena

" , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place / period / century

etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Prof Jha saab,

regards.This what I have been emphsising right from my first mail.Quality

Astrologer is one of the most important consideration.

we have seen in the software of kundalee,the calculations are based on certain

factors which ofcourse needed a thorough scrutiny please

vrkrishnan

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:06 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sir,

Accuracy of prediction depends on two things : accuracy of computations, and

quality of the astrologer. A software can take care of only the computational

part, it cannot convert a nakshatra-soochaka into a jyotishi.

 

-VJ

 

____________ _________ _________ __

vattem krishnan <bursar_99 >

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 6:41:31 AM

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Sir,

When i was part of rashtriya sanskrit University <new Delhi for some time this

issue " Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough " was always in the minds of academic

members.The impact of prediction does not just come from the calculations

also.This is what I just mentioned abinitio.

For testing software and to have some astro data,i do not thing we need to have

much apprehension as the Kundalee that comes of of the software is just a format

for us to ponder over.Like any other chart we make out of available soft wares

vrkrishnan

 

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > wrote:

 

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ >

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 3:08 PM

 

Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to " kaladeshapramanena

" , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place / period / century

etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Namasthe

 

Now it your turn to look again at what I had written. A never used the word

Lunar Time for computing the " time " for birth time or " Hora " .

 

The computation / reference of " Time " has changed over centuries due to various

developments & adoptations. In old days " time " was found using the " sankuchaya " ,

which is practicaly useless at night. Mechanical clocks were developed only a

few centuries back and how many could have afforded it? even if they could have

obtained one.

 

Hence it is only logical & prudent to adopt a suitable method of computation

when time changes. There is nothing illogical in it.

 

Here the only controvercy is over Ayanamsa. Over the centuries, great many

people have contributed their thoughts on this. Sri Chandra Hari who holds an

M.sc in physics & M.Tech from BHU, Varnasi has given a new formula based on his

findings & information & studies in vedas & upanishads. But he being not an

astrologer and not having true predictive experience we cannot easily accept it.

But there is harm in experimenting.

 

Late Sri B.V.Raman had given his own formula and many say it is very accurate.

We have to believe it, simply due to the greatness of that person. I am sure he

would not have risked his reputation as well as that of his ancestors simply on

the question of a degree or two.

 

Sri M.C.Lahiri's is the most widely used method and thousands of great

astrologers are staking their reputation & welfare of the people who seek their

advice on a grossily wrong principle.

 

Further, I am sure you are wrongly informed when you wrote about the efficacy of

Vimsottari Dasa for that matter any particular dasa system.

 

Kindly refer to the 7th chapter 1st sloka of brihad jataka

 

mayayavanamaNinthashaktipuurvaiH

divasakaraadiShu vatsaraaH pradiShTaaH

navatithiviShayaashwibhuutarudraa

dashasahitaa dashabhisswatungabheShu

 

Where the no's for calculation of Ucha/neecha dasa is given & further says that

when raja yoga is present as in the case of " yasaswii " .

 

He again states the importance of amsaka dasa.

swamatena kilaaha jiivasharmmaa

grihadaayaM paramaayuShasswaraaMshaM

grihabhuuktanavaaMsharaashitulyaM

bahuusaamyaM samupaiti satyavaakyam..

 

again in chapter 8 of the same book verse 22

 

shubhaphaladadashaayaam taadrigevaandaraatmaa

bahu janayati puMsaaM saukhyamarthaagamanjha

kathitaphalavipaakaistarkayedwarttamaanaaM

pariNamati phaloktiH swapnachindaaswaviiraiH..

 

He is very clear in statement that the dasa which proves most efficient &

corresponds to most of the events should be adopted.

 

What is specifically written, what is not written, what is assumed, what is

commented about others opinion etc all should be considered before forming any

opinion.

 

If Vimshottari alone shows the whole life cycle & events in ones life Varaha

Mihira & others would not wasted their valuable time on other type of dasa. We

do not possess even 1/1000 of the knowledge they possessed. Still it would not

be without reason they searched for other type of dasas.

 

Similarly, No astrology classical works state that the computation of period

should only be done on the basis Lunar year. Representation of day / month /

year are periodical & subjective to the nation. Even In India, though English

dates are considered for day-today activities & universal consistency, Some

communities only consider Lunar dates for religious purpose. The only real

difference is in the concept & mean. An English date only a date while a lunar

thithy has a wider meaning as far as we are concerned. Hence, Lunar Year may be

considered for dasa system for the sake of experimentation.

 

Then again, there are many methods. (a) Consider lunar year (b) consider Lunar

converted year 116.5 years instead of 12 year © compute normally & instead of

presenting the output in English dates present it in lunar dates.

 

Many authors have stressed the need to look at factors like once lineage etc

when stating the effects of planets / yogas which invariably will effect the

dasa also.

 

Saravali : on Raja yogas

 

 

svocchatrikoNagR^ihagairbalasaMyutaishcha tryaadyairnR^ipo bhavati

bhuupativaMshajaataH

pa~nchaadibhirjanapadaprabhavo.api siddho hiinaiH kshitiishvarasamo na tu

bhuumipaalaH..

 

If three planets are exalted or in moolatrikona or with strength, a person born

in royal family shall become the king. The next part also states similar

conditions. The most important point here is " born in royal family " . Hence it

should be understood that the same yoga may not produce a king if the person is

born in much lower family status. This raises another question, What is use of

most accurate dasa system if the astrologer is not aware of the financial /

family background of the person in such a situation. If we go blindly by data

alone it is very easy to commit blunders.

 

Finaly Mt Meru mentioned by you in another post is very simple. The " Meru " mean

spine in Sanskrit & hence refers to Tropic of cancer which passes through Ujain.

The Mount is added to indicate its greatness & firmness – that never changes,

the base characteristic of a mountain. There is nothing mystical about it & and

it does not refer to Meru partvatha used for " palazhi mathana " . The readers

should not be confused by this.

 

While, your thoughts, concepts & software are most welcome, claiming that it is

" worlds most accurate one " is taking it too far. By doing that you are degrading

every other great proponents of astrology living or bygone.

 

Astronomy & particularly astrology is highly adaptive, and has undergone various

" Samskars " refinement over the ages. Rather that trying to exert an already

established theory, it would be better if you concentrate on taking the views of

its users & refining the software.

 

With this I rest my case.

 

With warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> The verses you quoted from Prasna Marg were based upon an earlier work :

Panchsiddhantika of Varah Mihir.

>

> Why you guessed I have anything new about " Time " ? I used standard methods of

computing birthtime.. Did you guess I used lunar time everywhere ? There is no

hidden thing in Kundalee, and I've already explained what are its unique

features.

>

> Varah Mihir used different method of dasha, but neither he nor anyone else has

ever said that " Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond to all the events

in ones life " . BPHS clearly gives a long list of three typres of dashas :

>

> (1) Vimshottari, which has no condition and no opponent, and is therefore

universally applicable.

> (2) Nine other nakshatra based dasha which work when certain conditions are

fulfilled.

> (3) Other dashas, about which BPHS says that they are not universally

accepted.

>

> All your suspicions will be removed when you start using the English pages of

English version of Kundalee ; you need not touch Hindi pages which are less

important and are seldom needed. Complete translation into English will take a

long time : why you do not believe me that only those pages are in Hindi alone

which you will hardly need in actual practice.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

>

> Friday, April 10, 2009 12:38:54 AM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

>

> More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations

alone & the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

>

> " braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

> siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

>

> The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

>

> " spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

> sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

>

> Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

>

> " kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

> kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

>

> Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa

is clear. But the other are never accurate.

>

> The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years

back, a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim.

Further, Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to

" kaladeshapramanena " , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place

/ period / century etc.

>

> There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

>

> It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

>

> Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

>

> anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

> uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

>

> One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas †" this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

>

> Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

>

> Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

>

> Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

>

> Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

>

> with warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Shenoy ji,

> >

> > I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

> >

> > You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited

your imagination.

> >

> > If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

> >

> > If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

> >

> > Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe,

> >

> > Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

> >

> > You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> > A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation

> > b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

> >

> > Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up

another argument.

> >

> > A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> > b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

> >

> > When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time,

In old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

> >

> > Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or

convey any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " -

that which has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally

there should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " &

" but " , one cannot write a software.

> >

> > Kindly reflect.

> > warm regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> > >

> > > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say

: " All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > > accurate. "

> > >

> > > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own.. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> > >

> > > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> > >

> > > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> > >

> > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> > >

> > > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> > >

> > > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> > >

> > > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> > >

> > > regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > > >

> > > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely

in the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Namasthe

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > > >

> > > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > > >

> > > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > > >

> > > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > > >

> > > > warm regards

> > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > >

> > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > To All :-

> > > > >

> > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > >

> > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which

give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha.

Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees

approximately. With all possible values of ayanamsha already having been

experimented with, has the problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any

astrologer feels he/she already has perfect softwares and barring a slight

readjustment of ayanamsha there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need

not read my messages, because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels

even with all types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate

prediction is never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must read this

thread..

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred

on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together

with their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar

days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full

life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116..4 solar years. leave

aside these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with

lunar year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also

experimented with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out

the third reform given below.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological

softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have

options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or

substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true

planets and lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing

Kundalee software.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

> the

> > > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India

is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > >

> > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset

in positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > > >

> > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation

of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same

page ; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will

lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical

testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body

of traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these

pandits of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the

ancient methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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To sureshbabuag ji :

 

There are systems not based on Vimshottari, but no ancient or modern author has

written AGAINST the efficacy of Vimshottari dasha. If someone believes

Vimshottari system is wrong, he/she should not use Kundalee software. This

software is based on BPHS and not on Brihad Jataka. There are differences in

BPHS and Brihad Jataka and I do not want to say anything against Brihad Jataka

or against any system. Kundalee software is not an encyclopaedia of all systems.

 

I repeat that Kundalee software is world's most accurate software if one wants

to test timing of events based on Vimshottari system and wants to test all

divisionals according to principles of BPHS and Laghu Parashari. But for those

who do not follow BPHS and do not use Vimshottari, Kundalee software is of no

use.

 

I gave reference of verses in ancient texts (eg, Suryasiddhanta,

Narapatijayacharya) about the location of Mt Meru, but Mr Shenoy now wants Mt

Meru in Ujjain without giving any reference.

 

What is the use of arguing with people who want to prove, without testing a

software, that a software should not be used ?? They are free not to test a

software.

 

-VJ

======================= ========================

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 3:31:15 PM

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe

 

Now it your turn to look again at what I had written. A never used the word

Lunar Time for computing the " time " for birth time or " Hora " .

 

The computation / reference of " Time " has changed over centuries due to various

developments & adoptations. In old days " time " was found using the " sankuchaya "

, which is practicaly useless at night. Mechanical clocks were developed only a

few centuries back and how many could have afforded it? even if they could have

obtained one.

 

Hence it is only logical & prudent to adopt a suitable method of computation

when time changes. There is nothing illogical in it.

 

Here the only controvercy is over Ayanamsa. Over the centuries, great many

people have contributed their thoughts on this. Sri Chandra Hari who holds an

M.sc in physics & M.Tech from BHU, Varnasi has given a new formula based on his

findings & information & studies in vedas & upanishads. But he being not an

astrologer and not having true predictive experience we cannot easily accept it.

But there is harm in experimenting.

 

Late Sri B.V.Raman had given his own formula and many say it is very accurate.

We have to believe it, simply due to the greatness of that person. I am sure he

would not have risked his reputation as well as that of his ancestors simply on

the question of a degree or two.

 

Sri M.C.Lahiri's is the most widely used method and thousands of great

astrologers are staking their reputation & welfare of the people who seek their

advice on a grossily wrong principle.

 

Further, I am sure you are wrongly informed when you wrote about the efficacy of

Vimsottari Dasa for that matter any particular dasa system.

 

Kindly refer to the 7th chapter 1st sloka of brihad jataka

 

mayayavanamaNinthas haktipuurvaiH

divasakaraadiShu vatsaraaH pradiShTaaH

navatithiviShayaash wibhuutarudraa

dashasahitaa dashabhisswatungabh eShu

 

Where the no's for calculation of Ucha/neecha dasa is given & further says that

when raja yoga is present as in the case of " yasaswii " .

 

He again states the importance of amsaka dasa.

swamatena kilaaha jiivasharmmaa

grihadaayaM paramaayuShasswaraa MshaM

grihabhuuktanavaaMs haraashitulyaM

bahuusaamyaM samupaiti satyavaakyam. .

 

again in chapter 8 of the same book verse 22

 

shubhaphaladadashaa yaam taadrigevaandaraatm aa

bahu janayati puMsaaM saukhyamarthaagaman jha

kathitaphalavipaaka istarkayedwartta maanaaM

pariNamati phaloktiH swapnachindaaswavii raiH..

 

He is very clear in statement that the dasa which proves most efficient &

corresponds to most of the events should be adopted.

 

What is specifically written, what is not written, what is assumed, what is

commented about others opinion etc all should be considered before forming any

opinion.

 

If Vimshottari alone shows the whole life cycle & events in ones life Varaha

Mihira & others would not wasted their valuable time on other type of dasa. We

do not possess even 1/1000 of the knowledge they possessed. Still it would not

be without reason they searched for other type of dasas.

 

Similarly, No astrology classical works state that the computation of period

should only be done on the basis Lunar year. Representation of day / month /

year are periodical & subjective to the nation. Even In India, though English

dates are considered for day-today activities & universal consistency, Some

communities only consider Lunar dates for religious purpose. The only real

difference is in the concept & mean. An English date only a date while a lunar

thithy has a wider meaning as far as we are concerned. Hence, Lunar Year may be

considered for dasa system for the sake of experimentation.

 

Then again, there are many methods. (a) Consider lunar year (b) consider Lunar

converted year 116.5 years instead of 12 year © compute normally & instead of

presenting the output in English dates present it in lunar dates.

 

Many authors have stressed the need to look at factors like once lineage etc

when stating the effects of planets / yogas which invariably will effect the

dasa also.

 

Saravali : on Raja yogas

 

svocchatrikoNagR^ ihagairbalasaMyu taishcha tryaadyairnR^ ipo bhavati

bhuupativaMshajaata H

pa~nchaadibhirjanap adaprabhavo. api siddho hiinaiH kshitiishvarasamo na tu

bhuumipaalaH. .

 

If three planets are exalted or in moolatrikona or with strength, a person born

in royal family shall become the king. The next part also states similar

conditions. The most important point here is " born in royal family " . Hence it

should be understood that the same yoga may not produce a king if the person is

born in much lower family status. This raises another question, What is use of

most accurate dasa system if the astrologer is not aware of the financial /

family background of the person in such a situation. If we go blindly by data

alone it is very easy to commit blunders.

 

Finaly Mt Meru mentioned by you in another post is very simple. The " Meru " mean

spine in Sanskrit & hence refers to Tropic of cancer which passes through Ujain.

The Mount is added to indicate its greatness & firmness – that never changes,

the base characteristic of a mountain. There is nothing mystical about it & and

it does not refer to Meru partvatha used for " palazhi mathana " . The readers

should not be confused by this.

 

While, your thoughts, concepts & software are most welcome, claiming that it is

" worlds most accurate one " is taking it too far. By doing that you are degrading

every other great proponents of astrology living or bygone.

 

Astronomy & particularly astrology is highly adaptive, and has undergone various

" Samskars " refinement over the ages. Rather that trying to exert an already

established theory, it would be better if you concentrate on taking the views of

its users & refining the software.

 

With this I rest my case.

 

With warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

 

 

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> The verses you quoted from Prasna Marg were based upon an earlier work :

Panchsiddhantika of Varah Mihir.

>

> Why you guessed I have anything new about " Time " ? I used standard methods of

computing birthtime.. Did you guess I used lunar time everywhere ? There is no

hidden thing in Kundalee, and I've already explained what are its unique

features.

>

> Varah Mihir used different method of dasha, but neither he nor anyone else has

ever said that " Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond to all the events

in ones life " . BPHS clearly gives a long list of three typres of dashas :

>

> (1) Vimshottari, which has no condition and no opponent, and is therefore

universally applicable.

> (2) Nine other nakshatra based dasha which work when certain conditions are

fulfilled.

> (3) Other dashas, about which BPHS says that they are not universally

accepted.

>

> All your suspicions will be removed when you start using the English pages of

English version of Kundalee ; you need not touch Hindi pages which are less

important and are seldom needed. Complete translation into English will take a

long time : why you do not believe me that only those pages are in Hindi alone

which you will hardly need in actual practice.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Friday, April 10, 2009 12:38:54 AM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe

>

> Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

>

> More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations

alone & the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

>

> " braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

> siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

>

> The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

>

> " spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

> sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

>

> Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

>

> " kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

> kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

>

> Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa

is clear. But the other are never accurate.

>

> The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years

back, a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim.

Further, Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to

" kaladeshapramanena " , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place

/ period / century etc.

>

> There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

>

> It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

>

> Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

>

> anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

> uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

>

> One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas †" this could

very well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating

/ intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

>

> Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

>

> Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

>

> Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

>

> Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

>

> with warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Shenoy ji,

> >

> > I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

> >

> > You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited

your imagination.

> >

> > If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

> >

> > If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

> >

> > Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe,

> >

> > Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

> >

> > You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> > A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of

modern methods of computation

> > b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

> >

> > Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up

another argument.

> >

> > A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> > b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

> >

> > When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time,

In old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

> >

> > Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or

convey any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " -

that which has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally

there should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " &

" but " , one cannot write a software.

> >

> > Kindly reflect.

> > warm regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> > >

> > > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say

: " All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > > accurate. "

> > >

> > > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own.. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> > >

> > > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> > >

> > > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> > >

> > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> > >

> > > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> > >

> > > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> > >

> > > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> > >

> > > regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > > >

> > > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely

in the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Namasthe

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > > >

> > > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > > >

> > > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > > >

> > > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > > >

> > > > warm regards

> > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > >

> > > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > To All :-

> > > > >

> > > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > > >

> > > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which

give the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha.

Currently, various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees

approximately. With all possible values of ayanamsha already having been

experimented with, has the problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any

astrologer feels he/she already has perfect softwares and barring a slight

readjustment of ayanamsha there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need

not read my messages, because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels

even with all types of ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate

prediction is never guaranteed and much remains to be done, they must read this

thread..

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred

on many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together

with their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar

days (tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full

life is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116..4 solar years. leave

aside these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with

lunar year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also

experimented with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out

the third reform given below.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological

softwares, perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have

options for lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or

substracting offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true

planets and lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing

Kundalee software.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

> the

> > > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India

is not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have

little or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > > >

> > > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset

in positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > > >

> > > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation

of rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/

Prediction+ of+Death ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same

page ; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > > >

> > > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will

lead us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical

testing is the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body

of traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these

pandits of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the

ancient methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic

Astrology is a traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be

listened.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > > ============ == ===========

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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vrkrishnan ji,

 

 

You said : " software of kundalee,the calculations are based on certain factors

which of course needed a thorough scrutiny " .

 

The factors you mention can be scrutinized ONLY by means of testing this

software over (1) lives of persons you know or (2) whose lives are well known or

(3) over important events of national importance (mundane astrology), otherwise

we will waste time in useless arguments. Please !

 

-VJ

======================== ====================

 

 

________________________________

vattem krishnan <bursar_99

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 1:47:54 PM

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

 

 

 

 

Prof Jha saab,

regards.This what I have been emphsising right from my first mail.Quality

Astrologer is one of the most important consideration.

we have seen in the software of kundalee,the calculations are based on certain

factors which ofcourse needed a thorough scrutiny please

vrkrishnan

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

 

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 11:06 PM

 

Sir,

Accuracy of prediction depends on two things : accuracy of computations, and

quality of the astrologer. A software can take care of only the computational

part, it cannot convert a nakshatra-soochaka into a jyotishi.

 

-VJ

 

____________ _________ _________ __

vattem krishnan <bursar_99 >

 

Friday, April 10, 2009 6:41:31 AM

Re: Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Sir,

When i was part of rashtriya sanskrit University <new Delhi for some time this

issue " Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough " was always in the minds of academic

members.The impact of prediction does not just come from the calculations

also.This is what I just mentioned abinitio.

For testing software and to have some astro data,i do not thing we need to have

much apprehension as the Kundalee that comes of of the software is just a format

for us to ponder over.Like any other chart we make out of available soft wares

vrkrishnan

 

--- On Thu, 4/9/09, sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ > wrote:

 

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ >

Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

 

Thursday, April 9, 2009, 3:08 PM

 

Namasthe

 

Fine, I understood. But you did not comment on the calculation of " Time " .

 

More over there are many factors to astrology other than mere calculations alone

& the importance of suryasindhanta is nothing new also.

 

" braahmaH saurashcha vaasiShTo raumashaH paulishastathaa

siddhaantaa iti pa~ncha syuuH kathyante khalu tad{}bhidaaH. . "

 

The five sidhantas as Brahma, Surya, Vashishta & Poulasa

 

" spaShTo braahmastu siddhaantastasyaasa nnastu raumashaH

sauraH spaShTataro. aspaShTau vaasiShTaH paulishashcha tau.. "

 

Brahama sidhanta is accurate, Romasa is more accurate. Surya is the most

accurate. Vashista & Poulisa is not accurate.

 

" kadaachid{} brahmasiddhaanta H saavitrastu kadaachana

kadaachidraumashaH spaShTo na kadaachittathetarau .. "

 

Sometime brahma sidhanta is accurate, Surya is always clear, Sometimes Romasa is

clear. But the other are never accurate.

 

The above is from Prasna Marga, a book that was written atleast 1100 years back,

a the book we value highly. Hence, there is nothing new in your claim. Further,

Every classical text urges us to compute " time " according to " kaladeshapramanena

" , simply put using those equipments awailable at the place / period / century

etc.

 

There are astrological tools like " kunda kriya " etc to rectify the birth time

also.

 

It is also said that the dasa which corresponds to major events in the past

should be considered to predict future events also. This view is held by almost

all the classical writers. Hence, Vimshottari dasa need not reveal / correspond

to all the events in ones life.

 

Is astrology solely depended only on computations alone?.

 

anekahoraatatvaGYaH paM~nchasiddhaandak ovidaH

uuhaapohapaTuH siddhamantro jaanaati jaatakaM iti..

 

One should have core knowledge of many horas, 5 sidhantas – this could very

well be Panchasidhanta of Varaha Mihira, expert in surmising / correlating /

intuitive , Mantra siddhi. Such a person only will know jathaka.

 

Though computation is the basis of Astronomy , which becomes the basis of

astrology also , it is not enough.

 

Just to drive the point, recently myself & a few homeopathic doctors were

discussing on medical astrology & a chronic nervous disorder case. I explained,

the relationship between the type of medicine, its relationship with signs, &

planets etc. Just then one of the doctor asked about the rahu & what could be

inffered from it / how it is related to this case?. I must admit, I was taken

back, but remembered that Rahu is called (Paryaya) " Chatram " and could be

equated to Mushroom (toadstool fungi). He said it is called " Agaricus Muscarius "

in Homeopathy and is a medicine for Nervous disorders. Even I was surprised at

the relationship & what amount of information we can get from Rasi chart itself

if we only we care to spend time & effort.

 

Finaly we have to resolve the matter of Lunar year for Vimshottari as you say.

We shall discuss this further, if you like.

 

Kindly understand that I am not blindly against your software or the concepts.

Primarily I sincerly wish, It was more user friendly & fully awailable in

english. (I had downloaded it way back when you introduced it).

 

with warm regards

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

 

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Shenoy ji,

>

> I said : " remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. "

>

> You read it as " remove all after " hence " " , and deduced whatever suited your

imagination.

>

> If you want accuracy in positions of physical planets, you need physical

astronomy.

>

> If you need accurate ASTROLOGICAL results, there is no alternative to

Suryasiddhanta.

>

> Both modern astronomy and Suryasiddhanta are accurate in their respective

fields.

>

> -VJ

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

>

> Thursday, April 9, 2009 10:32:59 PM

> Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

>

>

>

>

>

> Namasthe,

>

> Ok, Let me understand more clearly.

>

> You wrote, remove all after " hence " - I had written this sentence in two

parts, as

> A) only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead of modern

methods of computation

> b) Modern methods are more accurate(than Suryasidhantha) .

>

> Do you refute both the arguments or only the (a) part. Which brings up another

argument.

>

> A) Surya sidhantha is more accurate than modern computations

> b) Modern computation could be accurate for finding planetory positions, but

does not correspond with Phala vibhaga.

>

> When we talk about accuracy, while we are using atomic clocks to know time, In

old days , it was something called " Sankuchaya " that was used to know time.

" Time " as it is measured / known then could be different from today atomic

clocks. Hence, we may have to go back & start using the old " Sankuchaya " for

knowing the Time of birth etc.

>

> Without " if " , " hence " , " but " one cannot understand / learn anything or convey

any thoughts. This is the very essence of what we call as " Sanskrit " - that which

has been refined. No doubt, Astrology is divine science, But equally there

should not be any doubt its deep scientific roots and without " if " & " but " , one

cannot write a software.

>

> Kindly reflect.

> warm regards

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ji,

> >

> > All your points are correct, but the reason given is not correct. You say :

" All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on position

of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. Hence only positions as per

Suryasidhantha should be considered

> > instead of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more

> > accurate. "

> >

> > The first half is correct ( " " All the phala (results) used for predictions

where originaly based on position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta. " ).

But remove the word " Hence " in next sentence. I had same misgivings about

Suryasiddhanta as most of the modern astrologers have, and would never have

touched Suryasiddhanta on my own. But I was fortunate to be a disciple of a

paramhamsa baala-brahmachaari sadhu Dr Lakshamana Jha who was a great scholar

also (he was Ph.D from School of Oriental and African Studies in London

University, and served as a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary). His 60

books are rotting unpublished in the hands of unworthy persons, but I was lucky

to have learnt many things from him. I did not arrive at Suryasiddhanta due to

any " hence " , " if " or " but " , due to blessings of my deperted Guru.

> >

> > You may like to see the following which a member recently sent to me :

> >

> > " This is a video of Swami Paramahamsa Nithyananda talking about astrology,

and I

> > think what he says is somewhat similar. He says that astrological planets

are

> > different from the astronomical ones (although the reason he gives is

> > different), and that they are deities, not just physical planets.

> >

> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=wtRqUFi6l4o "

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> >

> > Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:56:06 PM

> > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Namasthe

> >

> > Thank you for your response. It is not a matter of disliking hindi, rather

it is understanding it. Unfortunately, I don't.

> >

> > I don't mind waiting. As far as accuracy us concerned, well, we shall see.

> >

> > Mean while may I surmise your view points.

> > 1) Calculations for finding the longitude of planets should be based on

Suryasidhanta methods.

> > 2) Hence, Nakshtra, karana, yoga etc shall also vary accordingly.

> > 3) Vimshottari Dasa should be computed on Lunar year & not on solar year.

> > 4) All the phala (results) used for predictions where originaly based on

position of planets computed as per Suryasidhanta.

> > 5) Hence only positions as per Suryasidhantha should be considered instead

of modern methods of computation, though regarded as more accurate.

> > 6) Ayanamsa calculation also should be purely on Suryasidhanta.

> >

> > I just trying to understand your views. Correct me if am I erred in any of

the above.

> >

> > regards

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > @A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy :

> > >

> > > The Kundalee software was made in Hindi only and was distributed freely in

the Hindi belt through CDs. Lately, I converted most important pages into

English and uploaded it on the internet. If you dislike Hindi in the remaing

pages of English version, I will have to delete those pages. But many

astrologers said they can read Hindi but want English input.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hence, please bear for some time. The accuracy of astrological results

will more than compensate for your trouble. I want to hear about your

experiences about the astrological results.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag@ ...>

> > >

> > > Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:25:39 PM

> > > Re: Main Problems of Vedic Astrology - Kundalee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namasthe

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > I had downloaded the software. I am sorry to say that, it lacks user

friendliness. Though it could be viewed in Hindi or English, if we choose

english, the form that is displayed when button " Planets " is pressed switches to

hindi from english WHEN ZOOMED. Most of the forms displays only Hindi & they are

highly crowded with data making it less readable.

> > >

> > > There is no doubt that you have created a valuable tool.

> > >

> > > Kindly look into the problems.

> > >

> > > warm regards

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :-

> > > >

> > > > As I gather from remarks made by users of various internet forums and

experiments made by astrological software makers, the most important problem

faced by Vedic astrologers is that of Ayanamsha. All other problems of

mathematical portion of astrology seems to have been finally resolved by modern

physical scientists. Since the basic rules of phalita (predictive) astrology

have not been questioned by almost all Vedic astrologers, does it mean barring

ayanamsha there is no real problem in vedic astrology today ?

> > > >

> > > > But is it really so ? There are softwares in the market today which give

the user an opportunity to chose or put in any value of ayanamsha. Currently,

various values of ayanamsha range from over 22 to 24 degrees approximately. With

all possible values of ayanamsha already having been experimented with, has the

problem of a foolproof software been solved ? If any astrologer feels he/she

already has perfect softwares and barring a slight readjustment of ayanamsha

there is nothing to be experimented with, he/she need not read my messages,

because it will lead to useless fuss. But if anyone feels even with all types of

ayanamshas and all types of softwares, accurate prediction is never guaranteed

and much remains to be done, they must read this thread.

> > > >

> > > > Astrologers are human beings, and to err is human. I have also erred on

many occassions. It is difficult to take into account all charts together with

their due weightage. There were numerous occassions when with all sorts of

interpretations I could not get satisfactory explanations of real life events.

After decades of research, I found out that most of our current problems are

rooted in our departure from ancient principles, which can be summed up in

following points :

> > > >

> > > > 1) Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha gives accurate results. BV Raman adopted

Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha, but for the present era he added modern rate of

annual precession. Hence his ayanamsha is a hybrid one, very near to

Suryasiddhantic one. Yukteshwar ayanamsha is also Suryasiddhantic, with

negligible difference.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Vimshottari year of 360 days ought to be lunar, based 360 lunar days

(tithis). Vimshottari is made from Moon. Chhaandogya Upanishada says full life

is of 116 years. 120 lunar years are equal to 116.4 solar years. leave aside

these arguments, perfect timing of events has found to be achieved with lunar

year used for Vimshottari. Many other software developers had also experimented

with this option ; I am not the first. But they did not carry out the third

reform given below.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Suryasiddhantic true planets have slight difference from the true

planets of modern physical astronomy, ranging from half to over a degree. This

difference was minimum in 2000 AD and has again started rising, at the rate of

one degree in nearly 117 years.

> > > >

> > > > If these three adjustments are made into modern astrological softwares,

perfect Vimshottari will be achieved. Some other softwares have options for

lunar year for Vimshottari, and they also have optons for adding or substracting

offset to ayanamsha. Had it contained similar offsets for true planets and

lagna, it would have saved me years which I wasted in developing Kundalee

software.

> > > >

> > > > Only third of the above three points needs some clarification, because

the first two points have already been adopted in many famous vedic softwares.

Some people say Suryasiddhanta is an outdated text and there is no need to

experiment with it. They know majority of Indian panchangas are still made from

tables based on Suryasiddhanta either directly or indirectly. Hence, majority of

traditional vedic astrologers make horoscopes from Suryasiddhanta either

knowingly or unknowingly. Many of them have made comparative studies of

horoscopes made from traditional system with horoscopes made from softwares, and

a large number of these traditional astrologers declare that Suryasiddhantic

horoscopes are far nearer to real life events that horoscopes based on modern

astronomy. That is why astrologers of many states of India , led by four

Sanskrit universities, unanimously decided in 2005 at a conference in Varanasi

that all panchangas ought to be made on

the

> > > basis of Suryasiddhanta. Unfortunately, voice of this traditional India is

not duly represented on the internet because most Sanskrit pandits have little

or no experience of computers and internet. That is why some computerized

astrologers think the voice of traditional Indian astrology must be forcibly

suppressed because this " anachronistic " voice is against modernization.

> > > >

> > > > The whole problem is of just half to little over one degree of offset in

positions of true planets, which will make all divisional charts absolutely

accurate for all natives whose birthtime is accurate. Moreover, traditional

predictive rules work in perfect harmony with Suryasiddhantic computations.

> > > >

> > > > One method of test is analysis of horoscopes for seeing the operation of

rules of death prediction ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Prediction+

of+Death ).

> > > >

> > > > Another method is analysis of horoscopes for examining Vimshottari

timings of events. One example is displayed at http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.

com/page/ Vimshottari+ Dasha under title Vimshottari Timings for Planets of

Mixed Attributes

> > > >

> > > > Third method is mundane astrology. One example is forecasting world

economy ( http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+2010 ) ; another example is

> > > > Economic Future of India : mid-Apr 2009 to mid-Apr 2010 in the same page

; third example is rain forecast (http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/

2007%3AAnnual+ Rain+Forecast+ (from+Apr) +for+ South+Asia) .

> > > >

> > > > Third method, ie, of mundane astrology, is easiest for ascertaing

whether Suryasiddhantic or physical-astronomic al planets ought to be used for

making horoscopes, because horoscopes made at Samkraantis has a difference of

6-7 raashis due to over half a degree difference in Suryasiddhantic Surya and

modern asteronomical Sun. Such a great difference in horoscopes will make it

easier to see which conforms more to real events.

> > > >

> > > > It is useless to solve this problem merely by word duel which will lead

us to nowhere. Historical or logical debates will not help. Practical testing is

the only proper way. It is foolish to crush the voice of a great body of

traditional India just because it has no presence on internet. All these pandits

of Sanskrit universities are not fools or thugs. They have mastered the ancient

methods more than socalled experts of indology in the West. Vedic Astrology is a

traditional discipline and voice of traditional pandits must be listened.

> > > >

> > > > I am calling for free and fair comparison of both methods, without

personal attacks. Those who are not interested in examining the validity of

traditional scholarship may keep away.

> > > >

> > > > -VJ

> > > > ============ == ===========

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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