I AGREE R R Ji Astrology Research -FUNDS -HUGE UTILITY -

[Guest guest]

YES R R Ji, I do agree with your view point.

 

May be GOD does not want such things to come up at this pace at this time. I

need to accept my limitations

 

Infact I was just wondering is part of GOD's MASTER plan(not just plan) encoded

in the galaxies?

 

Actually- we make predictiosn based on OUR SOLAR SYSTEM and some refrential

adjuncts...(rashis...)

 

But our solar system also revolves around the GALACTIC CENETER OF THE GALAXY.

 

Which creates various YUGAS- may be that also explains ise and fall of

India,Egytians, Muslims, British and now rise of America- and connects with the

failure of ancient arts which we just discussed.??

 

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Punkajj c Dhar

 

, " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

wrote:

>

> I hope you keep your optimism alive and who knows what plan God has for that

thought that He planted in your mind years ago!

>

> That said, I have observed a few things in my practice and in other

astrologers' experience as well. Sometimes good and correct advice gets

delivered even when the charts were wrong or inaccurate (thankfully rarely or

else it would be one happy chaos around!). I have also observed that wrong

remedials, mantras etc have been effective in resolving issues in individuals.

>

> As Inderji said, there could be a Divine Plan in operation. I do not think any

of us were meeant to micromanage and control astrology of human experience!

>

> RR

>

> , " Pom " <pankajdhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohini Ji- Very nice to go through the contents.

> >

> > Infact I was all set out to do a astrology reaserch regarding proving a

specfic event- which is then statistically validated to be sceintific.

> >

> > I developed the special mathematics/framework for the same- programmed some

weird computer systesm...BUT PEOPLE WHO PROMISED FUNDS- BACKED OFF- I SPENT A

LOT FORM MY POCKET .....

> >

> > My goal was that if one could conclusively prove a event scientifically- say

accident due to satrun.

> >

> > The COULD CHANTING SATRUN MANTRA- HELP IN AVERTING IT??

> >

> > This would open up a new vista of solutions in the modern society...

> >

> > BUT NO ONE WANTS TO PAY- ALL WANT FREE FREE FREEE ...LINUX/TELECOM IS

BETTER THAN ASTROLOGY ...GOD HAS MADE ME TO DO BOTH ...

> >

> > BOTH ARE WORTHY OF RESPECT-AS THEY SOLVE -HUMAN PROBLEMS...VEDIC is much

superior...

> >

> > NO ONE wnats good VEDIC TECHNOLOGIES(away from Global warming, stress in

family..)) - these can deliver a HUGE HUGE VALUE :(....I am pained..

> >

> > All sugegstiosn welcome..

> >

> > Regards,

> > Punkajj

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pankaj ji,

> > >

> > > I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much thousands

of messages and umpteen fora.

> > >

> > > Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to time.

However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

> > >

> > > A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been

reported in Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not sure

how many have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and

independently, I had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian venture

setting out to examine the performance statistics of astrologers in a blinded

design. In other words all the astrologers had was accurate birthdata.

> > >

> > > The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for

obvious reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been taken

place in the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and such which

to the casual reader may indicate that someone has actually tested and surveyed

this matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted ranging all the way from

60 to 82% no one ever asks details about or sources of such statistics and the

number becomes firmer and firmer in people's minds with each repetition!

> > >

> > > In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar

test on a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in

experience, some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology.

Despite a meagre sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am

recalling anywhere from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was

about 75% in identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or full

reading situation.

> > >

> > > Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and

back then astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to

test, always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding -- something

not seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such testings:

> > > DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but

unknown to the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

> > >

> > > In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up in

the predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity has no

younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the latter but

likely absence of children would be way more important for a nativity to know,

than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a businessman. Both

important things but somewhat different in subjective impact on the nativity who

is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such considerations exist.

> > >

> > > The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to

consider the 'performance' of astrology=astrologers! Lot of work, obviously but

without that these success rate percentages are, please allow me to point out,

not meaningful!

> > >

> > > It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one giving

the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a massive sample

amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not more! It is

amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were accessible. It is

quite possible that this was a mixed bag, ranging from experts to beginners

which given the URGENCY of the scenario described is understandable that the

father was desperately seeking advice and help.

> > >

> > > Part of the role and responsibility of any and all astrologers,

particularly those who rely more on astro-logic and techniques as opposed to

divinatory and supra-logical procedures and siddhis etc (more power to them!) is

to look at the situation from a wider perspective. In this situation, that would

entail studying the charts of not just the child but also of the parents,

perhaps siblings if any, prashna -- of course! I have known astrologers who also

give a look to one's charts when tackling such important cases just to verify

that the communication channel is clear. The timing of delivery of readings,

thus becomes important.

> > >

> > > Obviously, in a large amount of short and quick readings given by perhaps

all of us may not be utilizing all of these because of the time etc involved,

but it would be wise to not give a reading for serious questions in a casual way

or in an unprepared manner. Please understand that these are my thoughts and I

am thinking aloud and not implying that others do not exercise similar care when

they deliver their readings: short or more detailed.

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Suresh Ji,

> > > > I can understand your anguish and any one would have felt

that way- infact what you just said is partially correct.

> > > >

> > > > Why did different astrologers give different predictions?Reasons are

given below.

> > > >

> > > > a)Suppose I am an astrologer and make predictions about missing person

based on lagana chart only.

> > > >

> > > > So theoretically my predictiosn might be 60% accurate(assuming 1)lagna

is of prime importance, followed by 2)moon chart and 3navmsa )

> > > >

> > > > I am just doing a simple analysis to shwo why Jyotishi's could give

different answers.

> > > >

> > > > b) Now if I look at moon chart also(apart from lagna)- so my predictions

should be 80% correct....and if I use navamsa...say 100 % correct.

> > > >

> > > > The key point here is THE MORE RELEVANT DATA I use in predictions- the

BETTER MY PREDICTIONS BECOME.

> > > >

> > > > c) Now one more factor, say instead of knowing 100% ruels of astrology -

I know only 70%, so 0.7 x 100% = 70% is the accuracy I reach even if I take all

the 3 charts.

> > > >

> > > > d)

> > > > A may also improve accuracy by following alternate systems of astrology-

may be take westerns astrology.

> > > >

> > > > e) now points a,b,c,d clearly tell you WHY DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS GIVE

DIFFERENT VIEW POINTS.

> > > >

> > > > f) Now can any one define SITUATION IN PAKISTAN accuartely? NO.

> > > >

> > > > Every one based on his/her knwoledge base would define it DIFFRENTLY-

but still it si SOCIAL SCIENCE - Correct! So why not Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > g) Jyotish talks in terms of PROBABBILITIES AND PATTERN OF EVENTS- it

can never ever be YES- NO.

> > > >

> > > > h) But you have the same situation in QUANTUM PHYSICS, the percentage of

chance of electron being found in the orbit?

> > > >

> > > > IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT A SCEINCE.

> > > >

> > > > i)Now KARATE helps you to defend yourself - the ultimate goal. as is

predictions the ultimate gaol in ASTOLOGY.

> > > >

> > > > But as you know given a certain combat situation , different karate

masters might come up with

> > > > different techniques depending on various fcators- as it is an ART also.

Though now my

> > > > sceintfic methods they are trying to build up a framework for better

KARATE

> > > >

> > > > i) Go to an expereinced astrologer- the chances are higher for you to

find your dear son.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My best wishes.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Punkajj c Dhar

> > > >

> > > > , " sureshkhandelwal "

<sureshkhandelwal@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > respected gurujans,

> > > > >

> > > > > i am sorry to say, but it seems astrology is just an art for making

people fool . AS i have visited at least 150 astrologers and even given my

problem at various sites, but of no avail. My son Chirag was kidnapped on

17/8/2008,5.10 pm and after that i have enquired many renowed astrologersbut of

no avial.

> > > > >

> > > > > every other astrologers reaches at different conclusion by the same

janamkundli, if it is a science then every astrologers should reach at same

conclusion, like in mathematics 2+2 is always 4 whereever you go.

> > > > > I again gives details of my son:

> > > > > Name: Chirag

> > > > > dob 23/8/1991

> > > > > tob 10.39 am

> > > > > pob delhi

> > > > >

> > > > > can any astrolger tell with certainty that what has/will happen

> > > > >

> > > > > i m sorry for harsh words but it seems so.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What GOD meant to and for all humans -- personified by religions that deem

HIM/HER/ALL to be so and even those which do not deem GOD to be that way -- All

of those, I wish come to treat these two lines written by GHALIB very

seriously!!

 

DUBOYA MUJH KO HONAAY NAY

NA KUCH THA TO KHUDAA THAA!

 

, " Pom " <pankajdhar wrote:

>

> YES R R Ji, I do agree with your view point.

>

> May be GOD does not want such things to come up at this pace at this time. I

need to accept my limitations

>

> Infact I was just wondering is part of GOD's MASTER plan(not just plan)

encoded in the galaxies?

>

> Actually- we make predictiosn based on OUR SOLAR SYSTEM and some refrential

adjuncts...(rashis...)

>

> But our solar system also revolves around the GALACTIC CENETER OF THE GALAXY.

>

> Which creates various YUGAS- may be that also explains ise and fall of

India,Egytians, Muslims, British and now rise of America- and connects with the

failure of ancient arts which we just discussed.??

>

>

> Thanks.

>

> Regards,

> Punkajj c Dhar

>

> , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

wrote:

> >

> > I hope you keep your optimism alive and who knows what plan God has for that

thought that He planted in your mind years ago!

> >

> > That said, I have observed a few things in my practice and in other

astrologers' experience as well. Sometimes good and correct advice gets

delivered even when the charts were wrong or inaccurate (thankfully rarely or

else it would be one happy chaos around!). I have also observed that wrong

remedials, mantras etc have been effective in resolving issues in individuals.

> >

> > As Inderji said, there could be a Divine Plan in operation. I do not think

any of us were meeant to micromanage and control astrology of human experience!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini Ji- Very nice to go through the contents.

> > >

> > > Infact I was all set out to do a astrology reaserch regarding proving a

specfic event- which is then statistically validated to be sceintific.

> > >

> > > I developed the special mathematics/framework for the same- programmed

some weird computer systesm...BUT PEOPLE WHO PROMISED FUNDS- BACKED OFF- I SPENT

A LOT FORM MY POCKET .....

> > >

> > > My goal was that if one could conclusively prove a event scientifically-

say accident due to satrun.

> > >

> > > The COULD CHANTING SATRUN MANTRA- HELP IN AVERTING IT??

> > >

> > > This would open up a new vista of solutions in the modern society...

> > >

> > > BUT NO ONE WANTS TO PAY- ALL WANT FREE FREE FREEE ...LINUX/TELECOM IS

BETTER THAN ASTROLOGY ...GOD HAS MADE ME TO DO BOTH ...

> > >

> > > BOTH ARE WORTHY OF RESPECT-AS THEY SOLVE -HUMAN PROBLEMS...VEDIC is much

superior...

> > >

> > > NO ONE wnats good VEDIC TECHNOLOGIES(away from Global warming, stress in

family..)) - these can deliver a HUGE HUGE VALUE :(....I am pained..

> > >

> > > All sugegstiosn welcome..

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Punkajj

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pankaj ji,

> > > >

> > > > I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much thousands

of messages and umpteen fora.

> > > >

> > > > Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to time.

However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

> > > >

> > > > A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been

reported in Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not sure

how many have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and

independently, I had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian venture

setting out to examine the performance statistics of astrologers in a blinded

design. In other words all the astrologers had was accurate birthdata.

> > > >

> > > > The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for

obvious reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been taken

place in the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and such which

to the casual reader may indicate that someone has actually tested and surveyed

this matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted ranging all the way from

60 to 82% no one ever asks details about or sources of such statistics and the

number becomes firmer and firmer in people's minds with each repetition!

> > > >

> > > > In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar

test on a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in

experience, some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology.

Despite a meagre sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am

recalling anywhere from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was

about 75% in identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or full

reading situation.

> > > >

> > > > Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and

back then astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to

test, always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding -- something

not seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such testings:

> > > > DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but

unknown to the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

> > > >

> > > > In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up

in the predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity has

no younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the latter

but likely absence of children would be way more important for a nativity to

know, than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a businessman. Both

important things but somewhat different in subjective impact on the nativity who

is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such considerations exist.

> > > >

> > > > The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to

consider the 'performance' of astrology=astrologers! Lot of work, obviously but

without that these success rate percentages are, please allow me to point out,

not meaningful!

> > > >

> > > > It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one giving

the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a massive sample

amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not more! It is

amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were accessible. It is

quite possible that this was a mixed bag, ranging from experts to beginners

which given the URGENCY of the scenario described is understandable that the

father was desperately seeking advice and help.

> > > >

> > > > Part of the role and responsibility of any and all astrologers,

particularly those who rely more on astro-logic and techniques as opposed to

divinatory and supra-logical procedures and siddhis etc (more power to them!) is

to look at the situation from a wider perspective. In this situation, that would

entail studying the charts of not just the child but also of the parents,

perhaps siblings if any, prashna -- of course! I have known astrologers who also

give a look to one's charts when tackling such important cases just to verify

that the communication channel is clear. The timing of delivery of readings,

thus becomes important.

> > > >

> > > > Obviously, in a large amount of short and quick readings given by

perhaps all of us may not be utilizing all of these because of the time etc

involved, but it would be wise to not give a reading for serious questions in a

casual way or in an unprepared manner. Please understand that these are my

thoughts and I am thinking aloud and not implying that others do not exercise

similar care when they deliver their readings: short or more detailed.

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Suresh Ji,

> > > > > I can understand your anguish and any one would have

felt that way- infact what you just said is partially correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why did different astrologers give different predictions?Reasons are

given below.

> > > > >

> > > > > a)Suppose I am an astrologer and make predictions about missing person

based on lagana chart only.

> > > > >

> > > > > So theoretically my predictiosn might be 60% accurate(assuming 1)lagna

is of prime importance, followed by 2)moon chart and 3navmsa )

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just doing a simple analysis to shwo why Jyotishi's could give

different answers.

> > > > >

> > > > > b) Now if I look at moon chart also(apart from lagna)- so my

predictions should be 80% correct....and if I use navamsa...say 100 %

correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > The key point here is THE MORE RELEVANT DATA I use in predictions- the

BETTER MY PREDICTIONS BECOME.

> > > > >

> > > > > c) Now one more factor, say instead of knowing 100% ruels of astrology

- I know only 70%, so 0.7 x 100% = 70% is the accuracy I reach even if I take

all the 3 charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > d)

> > > > > A may also improve accuracy by following alternate systems of

astrology- may be take westerns astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > > e) now points a,b,c,d clearly tell you WHY DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS GIVE

DIFFERENT VIEW POINTS.

> > > > >

> > > > > f) Now can any one define SITUATION IN PAKISTAN accuartely? NO.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every one based on his/her knwoledge base would define it DIFFRENTLY-

but still it si SOCIAL SCIENCE - Correct! So why not Jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > > g) Jyotish talks in terms of PROBABBILITIES AND PATTERN OF EVENTS- it

can never ever be YES- NO.

> > > > >

> > > > > h) But you have the same situation in QUANTUM PHYSICS, the percentage

of chance of electron being found in the orbit?

> > > > >

> > > > > IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT A SCEINCE.

> > > > >

> > > > > i)Now KARATE helps you to defend yourself - the ultimate goal. as is

predictions the ultimate gaol in ASTOLOGY.

> > > > >

> > > > > But as you know given a certain combat situation , different karate

masters might come up with

> > > > > different techniques depending on various fcators- as it is an ART

also. Though now my

> > > > > sceintfic methods they are trying to build up a framework for better

KARATE

> > > > >

> > > > > i) Go to an expereinced astrologer- the chances are higher for you to

find your dear son.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My best wishes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Punkajj c Dhar

> > > > >

> > > > > , " sureshkhandelwal "

<sureshkhandelwal@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > respected gurujans,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i am sorry to say, but it seems astrology is just an art for making

people fool . AS i have visited at least 150 astrologers and even given my

problem at various sites, but of no avail. My son Chirag was kidnapped on

17/8/2008,5.10 pm and after that i have enquired many renowed astrologersbut of

no avial.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > every other astrologers reaches at different conclusion by the same

janamkundli, if it is a science then every astrologers should reach at same

conclusion, like in mathematics 2+2 is always 4 whereever you go.

> > > > > > I again gives details of my son:

> > > > > > Name: Chirag

> > > > > > dob 23/8/1991

> > > > > > tob 10.39 am

> > > > > > pob delhi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > can any astrolger tell with certainty that what has/will happen

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i m sorry for harsh words but it seems so.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>