Performance of Astrologers (some serious thoughts...!)

March 29, 2009

Dear Pankaj ji,

I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much thousands

of messages and umpteen fora.

Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to time.

However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been reported in

Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not sure how many

have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and independently, I

had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian venture setting out to

examine the performance statistics of astrologers in a blinded design. In other

words all the astrologers had was accurate birthdata.

The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for obvious

reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been taken place in

the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and such which to the

casual reader may indicate that someone has actually tested and surveyed this

matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted ranging all the way from 60 to

82% no one ever asks details about or sources of such statistics and the number

becomes firmer and firmer in people's minds with each repetition!

In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar test on

a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in experience,

some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology. Despite a meagre

sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am recalling anywhere

from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was about 75% in

identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or full reading

situation.

Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and back then

astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to test,

always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding -- something not

seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such testings:

DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but unknown to

the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up in the

predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity has no

younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the latter but

likely absence of children would be way more important for a nativity to know,

than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a businessman. Both

important things but somewhat different in subjective impact on the nativity who

is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such considerations exist.

The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to consider

the 'performance' of astrology=astrologers! Lot of work, obviously but without

that these success rate percentages are, please allow me to point out, not

meaningful!

It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who reported

that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a period of 6-7

months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one giving the same

information or the correct information. This is indeed a massive sample

amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not more! It is

amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were accessible. It is

quite possible that this was a mixed bag, ranging from experts to beginners

which given the URGENCY of the scenario described is understandable that the

father was desperately seeking advice and help.

Part of the role and responsibility of any and all astrologers, particularly

those who rely more on astro-logic and techniques as opposed to divinatory and

supra-logical procedures and siddhis etc (more power to them!) is to look at the

situation from a wider perspective. In this situation, that would entail

studying the charts of not just the child but also of the parents, perhaps

siblings if any, prashna -- of course! I have known astrologers who also give a

look to one's charts when tackling such important cases just to verify that the

communication channel is clear. The timing of delivery of readings, thus becomes

important.

Obviously, in a large amount of short and quick readings given by perhaps all of

us may not be utilizing all of these because of the time etc involved, but it

would be wise to not give a reading for serious questions in a casual way or in

an unprepared manner. Please understand that these are my thoughts and I am

thinking aloud and not implying that others do not exercise similar care when

they deliver their readings: short or more detailed.

Rohiniranjan

, " Pom " <pankajdhar wrote:

>

> Dear Suresh Ji,

> I can understand your anguish and any one would have felt that

way- infact what you just said is partially correct.

>

> Why did different astrologers give different predictions?Reasons are given

below.

>

> a)Suppose I am an astrologer and make predictions about missing person based

on lagana chart only.

>

> So theoretically my predictiosn might be 60% accurate(assuming 1)lagna is of

prime importance, followed by 2)moon chart and 3navmsa )

>

> I am just doing a simple analysis to shwo why Jyotishi's could give different

answers.

>

> b) Now if I look at moon chart also(apart from lagna)- so my predictions

should be 80% correct....and if I use navamsa...say 100 % correct.

>

> The key point here is THE MORE RELEVANT DATA I use in predictions- the BETTER

MY PREDICTIONS BECOME.

>

> c) Now one more factor, say instead of knowing 100% ruels of astrology - I

know only 70%, so 0.7 x 100% = 70% is the accuracy I reach even if I take all

the 3 charts.

>

> d)

> A may also improve accuracy by following alternate systems of astrology- may

be take westerns astrology.

>

> e) now points a,b,c,d clearly tell you WHY DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS GIVE

DIFFERENT VIEW POINTS.

>

> f) Now can any one define SITUATION IN PAKISTAN accuartely? NO.

>

> Every one based on his/her knwoledge base would define it DIFFRENTLY- but

still it si SOCIAL SCIENCE - Correct! So why not Jyotish.

>

> g) Jyotish talks in terms of PROBABBILITIES AND PATTERN OF EVENTS- it can

never ever be YES- NO.

>

> h) But you have the same situation in QUANTUM PHYSICS, the percentage of

chance of electron being found in the orbit?

>

> IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT A SCEINCE.

>

> i)Now KARATE helps you to defend yourself - the ultimate goal. as is

predictions the ultimate gaol in ASTOLOGY.

>

> But as you know given a certain combat situation , different karate masters

might come up with

> different techniques depending on various fcators- as it is an ART also.

Though now my

> sceintfic methods they are trying to build up a framework for better KARATE

>

> i) Go to an expereinced astrologer- the chances are higher for you to find

your dear son.

>

> My best wishes.

>

> Regards,

> Punkajj c Dhar

>

> , " sureshkhandelwal "

<sureshkhandelwal@> wrote:

> >

> > respected gurujans,

> >

> > i am sorry to say, but it seems astrology is just an art for making people

fool . AS i have visited at least 150 astrologers and even given my problem at

various sites, but of no avail. My son Chirag was kidnapped on 17/8/2008,5.10 pm

and after that i have enquired many renowed astrologersbut of no avial.

> >

> > every other astrologers reaches at different conclusion by the same

janamkundli, if it is a science then every astrologers should reach at same

conclusion, like in mathematics 2+2 is always 4 whereever you go.

> > I again gives details of my son:

> > Name: Chirag

> > dob 23/8/1991

> > tob 10.39 am

> > pob delhi

> >

> > can any astrolger tell with certainty that what has/will happen

> >

> > i m sorry for harsh words but it seems so.

> >

>

March 29, 2009

Dear Rohinji,

I would have not come in to reply had you not wrote a beautiful informative

piece.The day when Sureshji first posted the mail I tried some intuitve

techniques with my Guru with his and his son's name.As u know some of it

that deals with names of persons u too woud have investigated and found the

same. i thnk u hit the bulls eye with the para

" It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one

giving the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a

massive sample amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not

more! It is amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were

accessible "

I think you understand the underlying answer i wish to potray.

Just 1 question to Sureshji as you are MEANINGLESSLY insulting the divine

jyotish shashtra and some true learned jyotishis that come in this forum.You

may barrage me with a slaughtering i presume.

Is your son really kidnapped ?.Have you seen it infront of your eyes?

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjanwrote:

> Dear Pankaj ji,

>

> I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

> pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much

> thousands of messages and umpteen fora.

>

> Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

> pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

> success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to

> time. However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

>

> A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been

> reported in Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not

> sure how many have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and

> independently, I had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian

> venture setting out to examine the performance statistics of astrologers in

> a blinded design. In other words all the astrologers had was accurate

> birthdata.

>

> The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for

> obvious reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been

> taken place in the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and

> such which to the casual reader may indicate that someone has actually

> tested and surveyed this matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted

> ranging all the way from 60 to 82% no one ever asks details about or sources

> of such statistics and the number becomes firmer and firmer in people's

> minds with each repetition!

>

> In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar

> test on a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in

> experience, some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology.

> Despite a meagre sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am

> recalling anywhere from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was

> about 75% in identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or

> full reading situation.

>

> Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and back

> then astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to

> test, always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding --

> something not seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such

> testings:

> DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but unknown

> to the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

>

> In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up in

> the predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity

> has no younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the

> latter but likely absence of children would be way more important for a

> nativity to know, than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a

> businessman. Both important things but somewhat different in subjective

> impact on the nativity who is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such

> considerations exist.

>

> The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to

> consider the 'performance' of astrology=astrologers! Lot of work, obviously

> but without that these success rate percentages are, please allow me to

> point out, not meaningful!

>

> It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

> reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

> period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one

> giving the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a

> massive sample amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not

> more! It is amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were

> accessible. It is quite possible that this was a mixed bag, ranging from

> experts to beginners which given the URGENCY of the scenario described is

> understandable that the father was desperately seeking advice and help.

>

> Part of the role and responsibility of any and all astrologers,

> particularly those who rely more on astro-logic and techniques as opposed to

> divinatory and supra-logical procedures and siddhis etc (more power to

> them!) is to look at the situation from a wider perspective. In this

> situation, that would entail studying the charts of not just the child but

> also of the parents, perhaps siblings if any, prashna -- of course! I have

> known astrologers who also give a look to one's charts when tackling such

> important cases just to verify that the communication channel is clear. The

> timing of delivery of readings, thus becomes important.

>

> Obviously, in a large amount of short and quick readings given by perhaps

> all of us may not be utilizing all of these because of the time etc

> involved, but it would be wise to not give a reading for serious questions

> in a casual way or in an unprepared manner. Please understand that these are

> my thoughts and I am thinking aloud and not implying that others do not

> exercise similar care when they deliver their readings: short or more

> detailed.

>

> Rohiniranjan

> <%40>,

> " Pom " <pankajdhar wrote:

> >

> > Dear Suresh Ji,

> > I can understand your anguish and any one would have felt that way-

> infact what you just said is partially correct.

> >

> > Why did different astrologers give different predictions?Reasons are

> given below.

> >

> > a)Suppose I am an astrologer and make predictions about missing person

> based on lagana chart only.

> >

> > So theoretically my predictiosn might be 60% accurate(assuming 1)lagna is

> of prime importance, followed by 2)moon chart and 3navmsa )

> >

> > I am just doing a simple analysis to shwo why Jyotishi's could give

> different answers.

> >

> > b) Now if I look at moon chart also(apart from lagna)- so my predictions

> should be 80% correct....and if I use navamsa...say 100 % correct.

> >

> > The key point here is THE MORE RELEVANT DATA I use in predictions- the

> BETTER MY PREDICTIONS BECOME.

> >

> > c) Now one more factor, say instead of knowing 100% ruels of astrology -

> I know only 70%, so 0.7 x 100% = 70% is the accuracy I reach even if I take

> all the 3 charts.

> >

> > d)

> > A may also improve accuracy by following alternate systems of astrology-

> may be take westerns astrology.

> >

> > e) now points a,b,c,d clearly tell you WHY DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS GIVE

> DIFFERENT VIEW POINTS.

> >

> > f) Now can any one define SITUATION IN PAKISTAN accuartely? NO.

> >

> > Every one based on his/her knwoledge base would define it DIFFRENTLY- but

> still it si SOCIAL SCIENCE - Correct! So why not Jyotish.

> >

> > g) Jyotish talks in terms of PROBABBILITIES AND PATTERN OF EVENTS- it can

> never ever be YES- NO.

> >

> > h) But you have the same situation in QUANTUM PHYSICS, the percentage of

> chance of electron being found in the orbit?

> >

> > IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT A SCEINCE.

> >

> > i)Now KARATE helps you to defend yourself - the ultimate goal. as is

> predictions the ultimate gaol in ASTOLOGY.

> >

> > But as you know given a certain combat situation , different karate

> masters might come up with

> > different techniques depending on various fcators- as it is an ART also.

> Though now my

> > sceintfic methods they are trying to build up a framework for better

> KARATE

> >

> > i) Go to an expereinced astrologer- the chances are higher for you to

> find your dear son.

> >

> > My best wishes.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Punkajj c Dhar

> >

> > <%40>,

> " sureshkhandelwal " <sureshkhandelwal@> wrote:

> > >

> > > respected gurujans,

> > >

> > > i am sorry to say, but it seems astrology is just an art for making

> people fool . AS i have visited at least 150 astrologers and even given my

> problem at various sites, but of no avail. My son Chirag was kidnapped on

> 17/8/2008,5.10 pm and after that i have enquired many renowed astrologersbut

> of no avial.

> > >

> > > every other astrologers reaches at different conclusion by the same

> janamkundli, if it is a science then every astrologers should reach at same

> conclusion, like in mathematics 2+2 is always 4 whereever you go.

> > > I again gives details of my son:

> > > Name: Chirag

> > > dob 23/8/1991

> > > tob 10.39 am

> > > pob delhi

> > >

> > > can any astrolger tell with certainty that what has/will happen

> > >

> > > i m sorry for harsh words but it seems so.

> > >

> >

>

March 30, 2009

I would simply accept that he lost his son and was sincere in his ask!

If that ultimately makes me look like a stupid fool, I hope every other parent

takes that chance and follows my suit!

RR

, krish chaudhuri <krishnenduchdhr

wrote:

>

> Dear Rohinji,

>

> I would have not come in to reply had you not wrote a beautiful informative

> piece.The day when Sureshji first posted the mail I tried some intuitve

> techniques with my Guru with his and his son's name.As u know some of it

> that deals with names of persons u too woud have investigated and found the

> same. i thnk u hit the bulls eye with the para

>

> " It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

> reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

> period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one

> giving the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a

> massive sample amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not

> more! It is amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were

> accessible "

>

> I think you understand the underlying answer i wish to potray.

>

> Just 1 question to Sureshji as you are MEANINGLESSLY insulting the divine

> jyotish shashtra and some true learned jyotishis that come in this forum.You

> may barrage me with a slaughtering i presume.

>

> Is your son really kidnapped ?.Have you seen it infront of your eyes?

>

> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjanwrote:

>

> > Dear Pankaj ji,

> >

> > I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

> > pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much

> > thousands of messages and umpteen fora.

> >

> > Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

> > pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

> > success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to

> > time. However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

> >

> > A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been

> > reported in Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not

> > sure how many have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and

> > independently, I had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian

> > venture setting out to examine the performance statistics of astrologers in

> > a blinded design. In other words all the astrologers had was accurate

> > birthdata.

> >

> > The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for

> > obvious reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been

> > taken place in the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and

> > such which to the casual reader may indicate that someone has actually

> > tested and surveyed this matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted

> > ranging all the way from 60 to 82% no one ever asks details about or sources

> > of such statistics and the number becomes firmer and firmer in people's

> > minds with each repetition!

> >

> > In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar

> > test on a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in

> > experience, some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology.

> > Despite a meagre sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am

> > recalling anywhere from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was

> > about 75% in identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or

> > full reading situation.

> >

> > Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and back

> > then astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to

> > test, always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding --

> > something not seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such

> > testings:

> > DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but unknown

> > to the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

> >

> > In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up in

> > the predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity

> > has no younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the

> > latter but likely absence of children would be way more important for a

> > nativity to know, than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a

> > businessman. Both important things but somewhat different in subjective

> > impact on the nativity who is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such

> > considerations exist.

> >

> > The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to

> > consider the 'performance' of astrology=astrologers! Lot of work, obviously

> > but without that these success rate percentages are, please allow me to

> > point out, not meaningful!

> >

> > It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

> > reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

> > period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one

> > giving the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a

> > massive sample amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not

> > more! It is amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were

> > accessible. It is quite possible that this was a mixed bag, ranging from

> > experts to beginners which given the URGENCY of the scenario described is

> > understandable that the father was desperately seeking advice and help.

> >

> > Part of the role and responsibility of any and all astrologers,

> > particularly those who rely more on astro-logic and techniques as opposed to

> > divinatory and supra-logical procedures and siddhis etc (more power to

> > them!) is to look at the situation from a wider perspective. In this

> > situation, that would entail studying the charts of not just the child but

> > also of the parents, perhaps siblings if any, prashna -- of course! I have

> > known astrologers who also give a look to one's charts when tackling such

> > important cases just to verify that the communication channel is clear. The

> > timing of delivery of readings, thus becomes important.

> >

> > Obviously, in a large amount of short and quick readings given by perhaps

> > all of us may not be utilizing all of these because of the time etc

> > involved, but it would be wise to not give a reading for serious questions

> > in a casual way or in an unprepared manner. Please understand that these are

> > my thoughts and I am thinking aloud and not implying that others do not

> > exercise similar care when they deliver their readings: short or more

> > detailed.

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> > <%40>,

> > " Pom " <pankajdhar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Suresh Ji,

> > > I can understand your anguish and any one would have felt that way-

> > infact what you just said is partially correct.

> > >

> > > Why did different astrologers give different predictions?Reasons are

> > given below.

> > >

> > > a)Suppose I am an astrologer and make predictions about missing person

> > based on lagana chart only.

> > >

> > > So theoretically my predictiosn might be 60% accurate(assuming 1)lagna is

> > of prime importance, followed by 2)moon chart and 3navmsa )

> > >

> > > I am just doing a simple analysis to shwo why Jyotishi's could give

> > different answers.

> > >

> > > b) Now if I look at moon chart also(apart from lagna)- so my predictions

> > should be 80% correct....and if I use navamsa...say 100 % correct.

> > >

> > > The key point here is THE MORE RELEVANT DATA I use in predictions- the

> > BETTER MY PREDICTIONS BECOME.

> > >

> > > c) Now one more factor, say instead of knowing 100% ruels of astrology -

> > I know only 70%, so 0.7 x 100% = 70% is the accuracy I reach even if I take

> > all the 3 charts.

> > >

> > > d)

> > > A may also improve accuracy by following alternate systems of astrology-

> > may be take westerns astrology.

> > >

> > > e) now points a,b,c,d clearly tell you WHY DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS GIVE

> > DIFFERENT VIEW POINTS.

> > >

> > > f) Now can any one define SITUATION IN PAKISTAN accuartely? NO.

> > >

> > > Every one based on his/her knwoledge base would define it DIFFRENTLY- but

> > still it si SOCIAL SCIENCE - Correct! So why not Jyotish.

> > >

> > > g) Jyotish talks in terms of PROBABBILITIES AND PATTERN OF EVENTS- it can

> > never ever be YES- NO.

> > >

> > > h) But you have the same situation in QUANTUM PHYSICS, the percentage of

> > chance of electron being found in the orbit?

> > >

> > > IS QUANTUM PHYSICS NOT A SCEINCE.

> > >

> > > i)Now KARATE helps you to defend yourself - the ultimate goal. as is

> > predictions the ultimate gaol in ASTOLOGY.

> > >

> > > But as you know given a certain combat situation , different karate

> > masters might come up with

> > > different techniques depending on various fcators- as it is an ART also.

> > Though now my

> > > sceintfic methods they are trying to build up a framework for better

> > KARATE

> > >

> > > i) Go to an expereinced astrologer- the chances are higher for you to

> > find your dear son.

> > >

> > > My best wishes.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Punkajj c Dhar

> > >

> > > --- In

<%40>,

> > " sureshkhandelwal " <sureshkhandelwal@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > respected gurujans,

> > > >

> > > > i am sorry to say, but it seems astrology is just an art for making

> > people fool . AS i have visited at least 150 astrologers and even given my

> > problem at various sites, but of no avail. My son Chirag was kidnapped on

> > 17/8/2008,5.10 pm and after that i have enquired many renowed astrologersbut

> > of no avial.

> > > >

> > > > every other astrologers reaches at different conclusion by the same

> > janamkundli, if it is a science then every astrologers should reach at same

> > conclusion, like in mathematics 2+2 is always 4 whereever you go.

> > > > I again gives details of my son:

> > > > Name: Chirag

> > > > dob 23/8/1991

> > > > tob 10.39 am

> > > > pob delhi

> > > >

> > > > can any astrolger tell with certainty that what has/will happen

> > > >

> > > > i m sorry for harsh words but it seems so.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 30, 2009

Restpected gurujans,

please refer to my email- is jyotiesh science...

i have received so many repliesand would like to state following things:

1). my son was kidnapped(100%, proof of this is with me), hence suggestion by

many astrologers even in this group that my son has run away is not true

2.people raised doubt that how come i contact 150 odd astrologers . pls note

that not only me but many of my relatives- in bombay, alwar , kota , jaipur,

ahemdabad, delhi, merut, modinagar,delhi and so many other places have enquired,

and this process is still continuing- as my son was very popular among my

relatives and he was loved by almost everyone he knew.

3.as i said that diffrent astrogers prdict diffrently, even replies in this

group have predicted diffrently- one astroger has said my

son is not alove another has said that he will return by may end and money will

be asked and another has replied that he will come in 2010and many more.

i just wanted to make a point that why diffrent astrologers give different

result with same janamkundli

i again regret and ask for sorry if it has hurt feeling of astrologers.

regards

--- On Mon, 30/3/09, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote:

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan

Re: Performance of Astrologers (some serious thoughts...!)

Monday, 30 March, 2009, 2:26 PM

I would simply accept that he lost his son and was sincere in his

ask!

If that ultimately makes me look like a stupid fool, I hope every other parent

takes that chance and follows my suit!

RR

, krish chaudhuri <krishnenduchdhr@

....> wrote:

>

> Dear Rohinji,

>

> I would have not come in to reply had you not wrote a beautiful informative

> piece.The day when Sureshji first posted the mail I tried some intuitve

> techniques with my Guru with his and his son's name.As u know some of it

> that deals with names of persons u too woud have investigated and found the

> same. i thnk u hit the bulls eye with the para

>

> " It is unfortunate that all this is coming out due to this gentleman who

> reported that his child was kidnapped and he went to 150 astrologers over a

> period of 6-7 months (august 2008 to Feburary 2009 or less) with no one

> giving the same information or the correct information. This is indeed a

> massive sample amounting to about 20 astrologers being seen per month if not

> more! It is amazing to know that so many professional astrologers were

> accessible "

>

> I think you understand the underlying answer i wish to potray.

>

> Just 1 question to Sureshji as you are MEANINGLESSLY insulting the divine

> jyotish shashtra and some true learned jyotishis that come in this forum.You

> may barrage me with a slaughtering i presume.

>

> Is your son really kidnapped ?.Have you seen it infront of your eyes?

>

> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>wrote:

>

> > Dear Pankaj ji,

> >

> > I know your heart is in the right place, as too those of others who have

> > pondered on these pithy questions regarding astrology for pretty much

> > thousands of messages and umpteen fora.

> >

> > Astrology has been claimed sometimes strongly, and at other times less

> > pressingly so from all kinds of perspectives and some of these 'frequency of

> > success' estimates have been proposed and at times claimed from time to

> > time. However, these are for the most part anecdotal estimates themselves.

> >

> > A few decades ago, similar studies were conducted and some have been

> > reported in Eysenck and Nias's Astrology Science or Superstition. I am not

> > sure how many have read that book, now probably out of print. Through it and

> > independently, I had heard of the Hamilton Project that was a canadian

> > venture setting out to examine the performance statistics of astrologers in

> > a blinded design. In other words all the astrologers had was accurate

> > birthdata.

> >

> > The above were all conducted in the western astrological framework for

> > obvious reasons. I am not aware of any such explorations that have been

> > taken place in the Jyotish framework, however, we do hear percentages and

> > such which to the casual reader may indicate that someone has actually

> > tested and surveyed this matter. As the percentages get repeatedly quoted

> > ranging all the way from 60 to 82% no one ever asks details about or sources

> > of such statistics and the number becomes firmer and firmer in people's

> > minds with each repetition!

> >

> > In early 90s when I was a Section Leader on Compuserve, I ran a similar

> > test on a modest sample of available astrologers, mostly intermediate in

> > experience, some experienced and nearly all following tropical astrology.

> > Despite a meagre sample size (I will have to look up my data books but I am

> > recalling anywhere from 25-35 individuals. Overall, the performance rate was

> > about 75% in identifying things. This was not a comprehensive testing or

> > full reading situation.

> >

> > Even this loosely performed testing mostly done in a light manner (and back

> > then astrologers were less defensive and overly sensitive when being put to

> > test, always without malice or personal axes that needed grinding --

> > something not seen any more!), brought out to me very clearly that such

> > testings:

> > DO NOT take into account the WEIGHT of the predicted or defined but unknown

> > to the astrologer FACT in the nativity' chart.

> >

> > In other words, identification of a serious potential illness is way up in

> > the predictive scale of importance than say identifying that the nativity

> > has no younger siblings or wears glasses. Mind you I am not pooh-poohing the

> > latter but likely absence of children would be way more important for a

> > nativity to know, than say knowing that the child will grow up to become a

> > businessman. Both important things but somewhat different in subjective

> > impact on the nativity who is 25 and not even married at the time. Many such

> > considerations exist.

> >

> > The WEIGHTED performance is important to consider if we are going to

> > consider the 'performance' of astrology=astrologe rs! Lot of work, obviously