Guest guest Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 In my years experience with vedic astrology I found many hidden things in chart that never interpreated before...like if native not feeling good at one place or cant make his/her future or sufferring from some illness he/she can be better in other place. when a doctor came to me before years n told me that i advise my patients to go to other place and live there for few days i found amazing result then the idea strikes in my mind that we also also birth date, time and place to make chart. birth place playing mail roll in chart, chart depends on the place and the calculations we made by latitude n longitude...so the place is very important for native n chart...it the light of chart we can say taht at same time n date if there are two native born one in usa n one in india the chart is different (at least in degrees )....and if we think for 200 or 300 kms...we can find enough changes in chart n minutely we can see changes even in few kms...we also know the vastushasthra and law of directions and five elements...eath has its own magatic filed..so it affect the native contabally. secondly i found that if native has some bad yogas like kalsarpa yoga, kemdruma yoga shapit yoga native suffer a lot nearby his birth place but if native changes the place he finds things improving and in lots of cases the native sufferring in birth contry with such yogas make nice career n life in other country...these all things lead us to a conclusion that the place is very important in chart and if someone sufferring with illness or any other problem should take advise from good astrologer and try to change the place but at the time of changing native should match the place name with his chart n also check the place's latitude n longitude, direction that either its positve or nagative...one can also change some magnatic field of earth by some prayoga..these things are very important in remedial astrology...you will also agree with me while you think some of your friends whose life change after place change ...i like to know your experiences regarding this article... Rohit Jivani +919426471470 rohitjivani www.astroprayer.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Dear Friend, A very important aspect of the birth chart certainly goes with the the place.Also the directions of the various signs and planets in the zodiac belt can never be ignored.Success and failure of any individual has relevance to directions,places and actual placements of in various bhavas. Infact it is commonly seen that people with some success rate fail if they are involved in a direction and palce not suitable to them.Infact,the migrations and relocations that take palce depend on the planetary forces.In my own life,I concluded that birth place and the palnetary influence has definete relevance to the progression of life.it is however to difficult to make generalised statement.But one needs to look in to the importance provided by the signs and palnets. vrkrishnan --- On Mon, 7/7/08, cuteonefromuk <cuteonefromuk wrote: cuteonefromuk <cuteonefromuk importance of birthplace in chart Monday, July 7, 2008, 8:59 AM In my years experience with vedic astrology I found many hidden things in chart that never interpreated before...like if native not feeling good at one place or cant make his/her future or sufferring from some illness he/she can be better in other place. when a doctor came to me before years n told me that i advise my patients to go to other place and live there for few days i found amazing result then the idea strikes in my mind that we also also birth date, time and place to make chart. birth place playing mail roll in chart, chart depends on the place and the calculations we made by latitude n longitude... so the place is very important for native n chart...it the light of chart we can say taht at same time n date if there are two native born one in usa n one in india the chart is different (at least in degrees )....and if we think for 200 or 300 kms...we can find enough changes in chart n minutely we can see changes even in few kms...we also know the vastushasthra and law of directions and five elements...eath has its own magatic filed..so it affect the native contabally. secondly i found that if native has some bad yogas like kalsarpa yoga, kemdruma yoga shapit yoga native suffer a lot nearby his birth place but if native changes the place he finds things improving and in lots of cases the native sufferring in birth contry with such yogas make nice career n life in other country...these all things lead us to a conclusion that the place is very important in chart and if someone sufferring with illness or any other problem should take advise from good astrologer and try to change the place but at the time of changing native should match the place name with his chart n also check the place's latitude n longitude, direction that either its positve or nagative...one can also change some magnatic field of earth by some prayoga..these things are very important in remedial astrology... you will also agree with me while you think some of your friends whose life change after place change ...i like to know your experiences regarding this article... Rohit Jivani +919426471470 rohitjivani@ www.astroprayer. com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Rohit, Most of us in this worldly reality were not born for pleasure! As you must have noticed, Bill Gates and Deepak Chopra and all the Prime Ministers, Presidents and Heads of Churches and Maths and similar 0rganizations and so on do not hang out here or on similar forums/fora! Astrology (all flavours) has introduced some false hopes, I am afraid into contemporary thinking! Relocational astrology and astrocartography and its ilk are great observational and wonderful learning tools but despite all that has been written in books, articles and messages, it is not as easy and simple as, " pack your things and boxes and move to another place in the world and all will be wonderful and success shall be yours! " If we humans were really that much in control of our destiny, as some religious types insist and have been claiming for a few decades if not longer, even from times before Internet was born -- the world would be very different in real terms today, would it not? There would not be any wars, corruption, exploitation, young soldiers and police officers who have not quite arrived at their first saturn return (less than 30 years old) would be still alive! I think there is something really astigmatic about our vision, as the human race, east, west, north, south notwithstanding...! I must really get up and leave now or I will miss my train again ... The platform and waiting room had been wonderful though! Kind regards, RR , " cuteonefromuk " <cuteonefromuk wrote: > > In my years experience with vedic astrology I found many hidden > things in chart that never interpreated before...like if native not > feeling good at one place or cant make his/her future > or sufferring from some illness he/she can be better in other place. > when a doctor came to me before years n told me that i advise my > patients to go to other place and live there for few days i found > amazing result then the idea strikes in my mind that we also also > birth date, time and place to make chart. birth place playing mail > roll in chart, chart depends on > the place and the calculations we made by latitude n longitude...so > the place is very important for native n chart...it the light of > chart we can say taht at same time n date if there are two native > born one in usa n one in india the chart is different (at least in > degrees )....and if we think for 200 or 300 kms...we can find enough > changes in chart n minutely > we can see changes even in few kms...we also know the vastushasthra > and law of directions and five elements...eath has its own magatic > filed..so it affect the native contabally. > secondly i found that if native has some bad yogas like kalsarpa > yoga, kemdruma yoga > shapit yoga native suffer a lot nearby his birth place but if native > changes the place > he finds things improving and in lots of cases the native sufferring > in birth contry with such yogas make nice career n life in other > country...these all things lead us to a conclusion that the place is > very important in chart and if someone sufferring with > illness or any other problem should take advise from good > astrologer and try to change the place but at the time of changing > native should match the place name with his chart n also check the > place's latitude n longitude, direction that either its positve or > nagative...one can also change some magnatic field of earth by some > prayoga..these things are very important in remedial astrology...you > will also agree with me while you think some of your friends whose > life change after place change ...i like to know your experiences > regarding this article... > > Rohit Jivani > +919426471470 > rohitjivani > www.astroprayer.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Ranjanji, pranam jai sainath. first of all, I just try to make a relation between place and chart and I found this in thousands of cases...as I wrote in my article that before changing one must see that is it benificial or not...sometimes its more dangerous...if the changing in degree or langa is nagative by movement obviously the result after movement will be nagative but we need to find proper place (name, direction,magnatic field, latitude, longitude, effect on native's chart)..so its not easy...but let me tell u one thing I got very nice result to cure a person...I suggest some of them to move to place which is favorable... and they are cured...that what I want to say..and we astrologers should open our mind towards new theories... rohit www.astroprayer.com , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohit, > > Most of us in this worldly reality were not born for pleasure! As you > must have noticed, Bill Gates and Deepak Chopra and all the Prime > Ministers, Presidents and Heads of Churches and Maths and similar > 0rganizations and so on do not hang out here or on similar > forums/fora! > > Astrology (all flavours) has introduced some false hopes, I am afraid > into contemporary thinking! > > Relocational astrology and astrocartography and its ilk are great > observational and wonderful learning tools but despite all that has > been written in books, articles and messages, it is not as easy and > simple as, " pack your things and boxes and move to another place in > the world and all will be wonderful and success shall be yours! " > > If we humans were really that much in control of our destiny, as some > religious types insist and have been claiming for a few decades if > not longer, even from times before Internet was born -- the world > would be very different in real terms today, would it not? There > would not be any wars, corruption, exploitation, young soldiers and > police officers who have not quite arrived at their first saturn > return (less than 30 years old) would be still alive! > > I think there is something really astigmatic about our vision, as the > human race, east, west, north, south notwithstanding...! > > I must really get up and leave now or I will miss my train again ... > > The platform and waiting room had been wonderful though! > > Kind regards, > > RR > > , " cuteonefromuk " > <cuteonefromuk@> wrote: > > > > In my years experience with vedic astrology I found many hidden > > things in chart that never interpreated before...like if native not > > feeling good at one place or cant make his/her future > > or sufferring from some illness he/she can be better in other > place. > > when a doctor came to me before years n told me that i advise my > > patients to go to other place and live there for few days i found > > amazing result then the idea strikes in my mind that we also also > > birth date, time and place to make chart. birth place playing mail > > roll in chart, chart depends on > > the place and the calculations we made by latitude n > longitude...so > > the place is very important for native n chart...it the light of > > chart we can say taht at same time n date if there are two native > > born one in usa n one in india the chart is different (at least in > > degrees )....and if we think for 200 or 300 kms...we can find > enough > > changes in chart n minutely > > we can see changes even in few kms...we also know the vastushasthra > > and law of directions and five elements...eath has its own magatic > > filed..so it affect the native contabally. > > secondly i found that if native has some bad yogas like kalsarpa > > yoga, kemdruma yoga > > shapit yoga native suffer a lot nearby his birth place but if > native > > changes the place > > he finds things improving and in lots of cases the native > sufferring > > in birth contry with such yogas make nice career n life in other > > country...these all things lead us to a conclusion that the place > is > > very important in chart and if someone sufferring with > > illness or any other problem should take advise from good > > astrologer and try to change the place but at the time of changing > > native should match the place name with his chart n also check the > > place's latitude n longitude, direction that either its positve or > > nagative...one can also change some magnatic field of earth by some > > prayoga..these things are very important in remedial > astrology...you > > will also agree with me while you think some of your friends whose > > life change after place change ...i like to know your experiences > > regarding this article... > > > > Rohit Jivani > > +919426471470 > > rohitjivani@ > > www.astroprayer.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 yes u r rite, we should calculate all things before movement , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Friend, > A very important aspect of the birth chart certainly goes with the the place.Also the directions of the various signs and planets in the zodiac belt can never be ignored.Success and failure of any individual has relevance to directions,places and actual placements of in various bhavas. > Infact it is commonly seen that people with some success rate fail if they are involved in a direction and palce not suitable to them.Infact,the migrations and relocations that take palce depend on the planetary forces.In my own life,I concluded that birth place and the palnetary influence has definete relevance to the progression of life.it is however to difficult to make generalised statement.But one needs to look in to the importance provided by the signs and palnets. > vrkrishnan > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, cuteonefromuk <cuteonefromuk wrote: > > cuteonefromuk <cuteonefromuk > importance of birthplace in chart > > Monday, July 7, 2008, 8:59 AM In my years experience with vedic astrology I found many hidden > things in chart that never interpreated before...like if native not > feeling good at one place or cant make his/her future > or sufferring from some illness he/she can be better in other place. > when a doctor came to me before years n told me that i advise my > patients to go to other place and live there for few days i found > amazing result then the idea strikes in my mind that we also also > birth date, time and place to make chart. birth place playing mail > roll in chart, chart depends on > the place and the calculations we made by latitude n longitude... so > the place is very important for native n chart...it the light of > chart we can say taht at same time n date if there are two native > born one in usa n one in india the chart is different (at least in > degrees )....and if we think for 200 or 300 kms...we can find enough > changes in chart n minutely > we can see changes even in few kms...we also know the vastushasthra > and law of directions and five elements...eath has its own magatic > filed..so it affect the native contabally. > secondly i found that if native has some bad yogas like kalsarpa > yoga, kemdruma yoga > shapit yoga native suffer a lot nearby his birth place but if native > changes the place > he finds things improving and in lots of cases the native sufferring > in birth contry with such yogas make nice career n life in other > country...these all things lead us to a conclusion that the place is > very important in chart and if someone sufferring with > illness or any other problem should take advise from good > astrologer and try to change the place but at the time of changing > native should match the place name with his chart n also check the > place's latitude n longitude, direction that either its positve or > nagative...one can also change some magnatic field of earth by some > prayoga..these things are very important in remedial astrology... you > will also agree with me while you think some of your friends whose > life change after place change ...i like to know your experiences > regarding this article... > > Rohit Jivani > +919426471470 > rohitjivani@ > www.astroprayer. com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Dear Rohit Ji Jaya Siyaa Raam I have been following your thread about th importance of the place in one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can you accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I should go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. What are yours and other's views about this? With regards Sushma , " rohit " <rohitjivani wrote: > > Ranjanji, > pranam > jai sainath. > first of all, I just try to make a relation between place and chart > and I found this in thousands of cases...as I wrote in my article > that before changing one must see that is it benificial or > not...sometimes its more dangerous...if the changing in degree or > langa is nagative by movement obviously the result after movement > will be nagative but we need to find proper place (name, > direction,magnatic field, latitude, longitude, effect on native's > chart)..so its not easy...but let me tell u one thing I got very > nice result to cure a person...I suggest some of them to move to > place which is favorable... and they are cured...that what I want to > say..and we astrologers should open our mind towards new theories... > rohit > www.astroprayer.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee wrote: > > Dear Rohit Ji > Jaya Siyaa Raam > I have been following your thread about th importance of the place in > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can you > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I should > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > What are yours and other's views about this? > With regards > Sushma > Dear Sushma, You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts and minds of and between those who are interested in this area of divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from diseases, financial and other troubles. I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be just dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is left with just one action: SURRENDER! If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even directed at you specifically... May you find peace. RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Dear Bhagavat jee, In Astrology we consider it is important to find the status of planets in gochara/transit through Hora/Prasna and try to link with natal charts to asses the kind of impact on the life of individual. So the issue of importance of location/palce in astrology has a great bearing on the problems of human beings. Change of place is arising just b'coz of palnets or the individual on his own tries to attempt is a different issue altogether. if it is likely due to the status of palnets,the astrologer indicates and gives opinion.The person too has to consider to attempt for a change of place For this lagna arising in gochara at that time of taking up the problem does throw light on the extent of problem. Incase the lagna sign is a movable sign arising, the astrologer feels the situation is one of temporary and can be addressed by way of changing the palce and by practising some remedial measures and finds a way also throgh the dasa/antar/sookshma dasa etc. Iam sure this an an astrologer tries quiety to find solutions and suggests the native.it is therfore not proper at that time to make it as a challenge.Not necessary to change the palce as a remedial measure.Also the condition of native,a patient is necessary to be assesed.No suggestion will be attempted that is not in the interest of person facing the hardship/problem This process undoubtedly has importance for the place where the problem is being faced with reference to health or any other issue and tries to link up the position with janma patrika too and comes up with his views. Since Astrological factors are very very broad and need consideration to find the position of planets responsible for such difficult situation and conditions attempt will be made to moderate situation through remedial measures.This can also include change of place to reduce the seriousness of situation.Basic to Astrology is faith and determination to attempt and try for remedies to improve the situation.THis requires openness of the native and prepare himself to resolve the problem with the advice of Astrologer or any other professional thatcan analyse the problem. All of us have problems in life and we face them in the manner that befits us and try to sort out issues.yet times these issues take time and test our endurance and make us to feel that we are facing a dead end. The frustation that arises has no remedy except that somebody who is immediately available and able to find a solution.Be it doctor,astrologer even a soothsayer.if he is able to provide a satisfactory remedy solution we all endeavour and try the suggestion Let's not attempt therfore to invalidate considerations arising out of astrological factors and treat them as of inevitability and choiceless. The person trying through Astrological means certainly has other alternatives appropriate to find remedies.he ceratinly takes into account the condition of the person involved in the problem --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Re: importance of birthplace in chart Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:45 PM , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohit Ji > Jaya Siyaa Raam > I have been following your thread about th importance of the place in > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can you > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I should > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > What are yours and other's views about this? > With regards > Sushma > Dear Sushma, You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts and minds of and between those who are interested in this area of divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from diseases, financial and other troubles. I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be just dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is left with just one action: SURRENDER! If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even directed at you specifically. .. May you find peace. RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 pranam jai sainath I see all thread written here first of thank to krishnanji to understand the concept and write creative things...secondly if we believe in the manner that bhagvatji wrote, remedial astrology has no place then...ranjanji also suggest remedies for problems so if we think that one could not go for remedies then the remedies are useless...but i firmly belive that we should do effort as we are human being rest is in hand of god...astrology works as a guide..we need to consider where we wnt to go...n in all groups i found such posts in which they write their personal questions as challege..i humbly wnt to write that these is a general discussion...n discussion should be generally...not for particular case.. rohit jivani , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Bhagavat jee, > In Astrology we consider it is important to find the status of planets in gochara/transit through Hora/Prasna and try to link with natal charts to asses the kind of impact on the life of individual. > So the issue of importance of location/palce in astrology has a great bearing on the problems of human beings. > Change of place is arising just b'coz of palnets or the individual on his own tries to attempt is a different issue altogether. if it is likely due to the status of palnets,the astrologer indicates and gives opinion.The person too has to consider to attempt for a change of place > For this lagna arising in gochara at that time of taking up the problem does throw light on the extent of problem. > Incase the lagna sign is a movable sign arising, the astrologer feels the situation is one of temporary and can be addressed by way of changing the palce and by practising some remedial measures and finds a way also throgh the dasa/antar/sookshma dasa etc. > Iam sure this an an astrologer tries quiety to find solutions and suggests the native.it is therfore not proper at that time to make it as a challenge.Not necessary to change the palce as a remedial measure.Also the condition of native,a patient is necessary to be assesed.No suggestion will be attempted that is not in the interest of person facing the > hardship/problem > This process undoubtedly has importance for the place where the problem is being faced with reference to health or any other issue and tries to link up the position with janma patrika too and comes up with his views. > Since Astrological factors are very very broad and need consideration to find the position of > planets responsible for such difficult situation and conditions attempt will be made to moderate situation through remedial measures.This can also include change of place to reduce the seriousness of situation.Basic to Astrology is faith and determination to attempt and try for remedies to improve the situation.THis requires openness of the native and prepare himself to resolve the problem with the advice of Astrologer or any other professional thatcan analyse the problem. > All of us have problems in life and we face them in the manner that befits us and try to sort out issues.yet times these issues take time and test our endurance and make us to feel that we are facing a dead end. > The frustation that arises has no remedy except that somebody who is immediately available and able to find a solution.Be it doctor,astrologer even a soothsayer.if he is able to provide a satisfactory remedy solution we all endeavour and try the suggestion > Let's not attempt therfore to invalidate considerations arising out of astrological factors and treat them as of inevitability and choiceless. > The person trying through Astrological means certainly has other alternatives appropriate to find remedies.he ceratinly takes into account the condition of the person involved in the problem > > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:45 PM , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the place > in > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > you > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > should > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > Dear Sushma, > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts and > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be just > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > directed at you specifically. .. > > May you find peace. > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 sorry the person is susmaji who challenge is personal case , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the place > in > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > you > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > should > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts and > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be just > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > directed at you specifically... > > May you find peace. > > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I am very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. I am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we do we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. And nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing Syaamantak Mani. Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our sicknesses, our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it is because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something else happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that point. " BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we look toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich Graha are causing this to us? And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " I also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is our problem In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone has this ideaology and is following it. , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the place > in > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change of > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it is > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > you > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > should > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, I > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts and > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be just > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > directed at you specifically... > > May you find peace. > > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Rohit Ji, Thanks for replying. In fact it is not a challenge, but it is just to say that " we do not do anything, only God does. " And whatever you are understanding from my original letter, that is not the case. I can many things in my support, but in short I give you two example which I have suggetsed in my letter. We live in Canada and wish to live there, but our son live in US, and even if we do not want to go there, we have to go there, although we do not have any medical security there. As soon as we are sick, we have to run to Canada. Thus we cannot live at one place even if we want to. We go to Canada every month for a week and come to US again to live with our son. For second example - I went to India in 1996, and now 12 years have passed, I have not been able to go there, even if I made my plans to go there several times, but because of something or the other they did not materialize. What can I do for both of these incidents - just waiting for God to show me the way. That is what I wanted to tell you in my mail. That is why I challenged you. And I know when God will want, I will stay at one place, and I will go to India - But unless " the change of place " is writen in my fate. Thanks again for reply, Please do not feel offended, it is not a real challenge - it is just like saying " Can you help me? " With all my regards Sushma , " rohit " <rohitjivani wrote: > > sorry the person is susmaji who challenge is personal case > > , " Rohiniranjan " > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > place > > in > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > of > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > is > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > > you > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > should > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, > I > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > With regards > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > and > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions > on > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > just > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one > is > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > the > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > > directed at you specifically... > > > > May you find peace. > > > > RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or at least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do something to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not misunderstand. The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I think is because that is the essence of human nature and human experience! We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, skies, oceans, others explore within! ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) Rohiniranjan , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I am > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. I > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we do > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. And > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing Syaamantak > Mani. > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our sicknesses, > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it is > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something else > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that point. " > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we look > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich > Graha are causing this to us? > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " I > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > our problem > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone has > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > place > > in > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > of > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > is > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > > you > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > should > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, > I > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > With regards > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > and > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > just > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > > directed at you specifically... > > > > May you find peace. > > > > RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Shri Rohinida, Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also bear with me if iam not on the track The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me very much to reflect back and to find what is it I could understand through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of eminenent persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, and Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches lot of significance is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is destined. In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing in the Univesr as the only Doer. No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force?God. These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment irrespective of good,bad etc. This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to prayers to God are also not seen and believed. Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel emotional for that moment. Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? vrkrishnan with regards --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Re: importance of birthplace in chart Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or at least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do something to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not misunderstand. The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I think is because that is the essence of human nature and human experience! We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, skies, oceans, others explore within! ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) Rohiniranjan , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I am > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. I > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we do > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. And > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing Syaamantak > Mani. > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our sicknesses, > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it is > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something else > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that point. " > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we look > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich > Graha are causing this to us? > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " I > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > our problem > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone has > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > place > > in > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > of > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > is > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. Can > > you > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > should > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, but > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this place, > I > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > With regards > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate and > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > and > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions on > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > just > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one is > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all the > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not even > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > May you find peace. > > > > RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Krishnan ji, Thank you for your wonderful " addition " which I am a bit perplexed as to why you call it an 'intrustion'! I think we <humanity> has come a long way ahead since the days of Pavlov and even Freud and Jung and Berne and Bleuler and on and on! As also we have developed what we received from Parashara and Jaimini and others. This is not an attempt to " thumb our noses! " but to be grateful that while we are standing on the shoulders of Giants, we are not just standing there petrified but actually seeing more and farther! I think that was the intent when PARENTS decide that children are ready to be allowed on the shoulders of BIGGER siblings! While Psychology looks well at a group/cohort/cluster and can predict how a certain fraction of the cohort will behave, it is uncomfortable when asked to predict about an individual (psychopath, sex-offender, kleptomaniac, abuser, etc). Astrology is uncomfortable when trying to predict for a group/cohort/cluster but seems to be more comfortable with predicting for individuals! Again, none of the two siblings are perfect but together they do have the possibility to help, if they agree to play together without any sibling rivalry! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also bear with me if iam not on the track > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me very much to reflect back and to find what is it I could understand through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of eminenent persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, and Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches lot of significance is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is destined. > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing in the Univesr as the only Doer. > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force? God. > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment irrespective of good,bad etc. > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel emotional for that moment. > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > vrkrishnan > with regards > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or at > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do something > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > misunderstand. > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > experience! > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I > am > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. > I > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we > do > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. > And > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > Syaamantak > > Mani. > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > sicknesses, > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it > is > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > else > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > point. " > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we > look > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " > I > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > > our problem > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone > has > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > > place > > > in > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > > of > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > > is > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. > Can > > > you > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > > should > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, > but > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > place, > > I > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > With regards > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate > and > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > > and > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions > on > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > > just > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one > is > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > the > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > even > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji Jaya Siyaa Raam The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which we try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he cannot sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - education, earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if any astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, while others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when they do not come true, we say he is not good. So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN ONE " S DESTINY. With regards Sushma , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also bear with me if iam not on the track > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could understand through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of significance is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is destined. > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing in the Univesr as the only Doer. > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force? God. > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment irrespective of good,bad etc. > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel emotional for that moment. > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > vrkrishnan > with regards > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or at > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do something > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > misunderstand. > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > experience! > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I > am > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. > I > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we > do > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. > And > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > Syaamantak > > Mani. > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > sicknesses, > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it > is > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > else > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > point. " > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we > look > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " > I > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > > our problem > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone > has > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > > place > > > in > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > > of > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > > is > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. > Can > > > you > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > > should > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, > but > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > place, > > I > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > With regards > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate > and > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > > and > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions > on > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > > just > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one > is > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > the > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > even > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Sushma ji, If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and going through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is only ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of pawns are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will allowed to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they are powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, communist governments, dictators and their actions were all predestined as DESTINY is supreme. That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what being human is about, in my view. Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human has free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can understandably only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus predictable. Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or bad actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future lifetimes. The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because ninth is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and wisely utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being to shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! RR , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which we > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he cannot > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - education, > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if any > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, while > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN ONE " S > DESTINY. > With regards > Sushma > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > bear with me if iam not on the track > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could understand > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of significance > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is > destined. > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force? > God. > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > emotional for that moment. > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > vrkrishnan > > with regards > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or > at > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > something > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > misunderstand. > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > experience! > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I > > am > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > Efforts. > > I > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever > we > > do > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. > > And > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa > had > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > Syaamantak > > > Mani. > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > sicknesses, > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it > > is > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds > of > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > > else > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > point. " > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we > > look > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > wnhich > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > accomplished > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > useful. " > > I > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > > > our problem > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone > > has > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > > > place > > > > in > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > change > > > of > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless > it > > > is > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. > > Can > > > > you > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > > > should > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, > > but > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > place, > > > I > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > With regards > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate > > and > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > hearts > > > and > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and > the > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > opinions > > on > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > even > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > > > just > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys > and > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, > one > > is > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > > the > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT > an > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > > even > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Sri Rohinida, Iam sure the manner you have conveyed is absolutely the same as stated in the verses of sages.Further I feel that the status of planets to provide a lee way to human beings als get classified as mool trikone rasi,exalatation and debilatation depending occupation of signs.This might be the intention to bring in the element of free will as against predetermined wired context. In bahvat bhavam too the good and bad houses undergoes transformation.Undoubtedly the dharma bhavas like 1,5 and have always precedence and even malefic palnets too deliver good results so on so forth.what a wonderful way the harmony has been brought in by the sages.These implications have to be assed before we conclude any thing about the subject and nature of Astrology. It soounded as if your clarifications are concluding half of the on going discussion.But the depth is so much there is lot to come and unravel.It all depends how we understand and share views.Views expressed in electonic form and media have their own difference of opinions to understand. vrkrishnan --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Re: importance of birthplace in chart Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:30 PM Sushma ji, If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and going through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is only ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of pawns are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will allowed to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they are powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, communist governments, dictators and their actions were all predestined as DESTINY is supreme. That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what being human is about, in my view. Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human has free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can understandably only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus predictable. Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or bad actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future lifetimes. The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because ninth is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and wisely utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being to shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! RR , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which we > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he cannot > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - education, > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if any > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, while > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN ONE " S > DESTINY. > With regards > Sushma > > > , vattem krishnan > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > bear with me if iam not on the track > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could understand > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of significance > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is > destined. > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > Stewardship. Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force? > God. > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > emotional for that moment. > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > vrkrishnan > > with regards > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or > at > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > something > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > misunderstand. > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > experience! > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I > > am > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > Efforts. > > I > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever > we > > do > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. > > And > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa > had > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > Syaamantak > > > Mani. > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > sicknesses, > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it > > is > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds > of > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > > else > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > point. " > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we > > look > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > wnhich > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > accomplished > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > useful. " > > I > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > > > our problem > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone > > has > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > > > place > > > > in > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > change > > > of > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless > it > > > is > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. > > Can > > > > you > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > > > should > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, > > but > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > place, > > > I > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > With regards > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate > > and > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > hearts > > > and > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and > the > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > opinions > > on > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > even > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > > > just > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys > and > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, > one > > is > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > > the > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT > an > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > > even > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dear Suhsma jee, Curiosities of life keep building from the time abirth takes place till the form changes and laid to rest.In the process the subjective part of human being very very interesting to become a field of study. Astrologer certainly reflects on Dharma aspects of life and informs how artha becomes feasible.But then the curiositied in the for of kama have no end.Finally making the moksha bhava in jyotish appears to become redundant. But the indicative science is of great importance if taken in proper perspective.The quality of progression from 5th to 9th can be improved and to keep in store for future through remedies and our positive actions.Basic philosophy remains unchanged in the rverred scince. regards vrkrishnan --- On Sun, 7/13/08, bhagvatjee <bhagvatjee wrote: bhagvatjee <bhagvatjee Re: importance of birthplace in chart Sunday, July 13, 2008, 9:21 AM Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji Jaya Siyaa Raam The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which we try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he cannot sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - education, earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if any astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, while others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when they do not come true, we say he is not good. So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN ONE " S DESTINY. With regards Sushma , vattem krishnan <bursar_99@. ..> wrote: > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also bear with me if iam not on the track > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could understand through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in Psychology > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow who classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of significance is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is destined. > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His Stewardship. Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every thing in the Univesr as the only Doer. > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen force? God. > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have contentment irrespective of good,bad etc. > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put in psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try to see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel emotional for that moment. > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > vrkrishnan > with regards > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender or at > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making those > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do something > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes and > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > misunderstand. > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > experience! > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling mountains, > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and exploring > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact I > am > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few people > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than Efforts. > I > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever we > do > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our fate. > And > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa had > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > Syaamantak > > Mani. > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > sicknesses, > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, it > is > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have hundreds of > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > else > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without my > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > point. " > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try to > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately we > look > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, wnhich > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, because > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and only > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some accomplished > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and useful. " > I > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human nature, > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still the > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that is > > our problem > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if someone > has > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of the > > place > > > in > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with change > > of > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place unless it > > is > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable disease. > Can > > > you > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place I > > > should > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one place, > but > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > place, > > I > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > With regards > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between fate > and > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the hearts > > and > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and the > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce opinions > on > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: from > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that even > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would be > > just > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys and > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, one > is > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save all > the > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT an > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > even > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Krishnanji, These topics are cyclical. They arise, then go away, then come back. Each of us would have to come to terms with what we believe in and what would work for us and what we would be comfortable working with. Like I was telling some folks on another forum: Different people will see different things in a chart and try to justify which planet was responsible or indicative of which effect and each approach would seem logical and believable more or less. This is why some call astrology as an enigma wrapped in a puzzle. I think the working position is: If through your approach, understanding, imagination, whatever, you have come to a position of confidence that the puzzle you are trying to solve does not remain a puzzle anymore, then I say run with it! There are perhaps no absolute answers just as there are not perfect software which will suit everyone ;-) RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Sri Rohinida, > Iam sure the manner you have conveyed is absolutely the same as stated in the verses of sages.Further I feel that the status of planets to provide a lee way to human beings als get classified as mool trikone rasi,exalatation and debilatation depending occupation of signs.This might be the intention to bring in the element of free will as against predetermined wired context. > In bahvat bhavam too the good and bad houses undergoes transformation.Undoubtedly the dharma bhavas like 1,5 and have always precedence and even malefic palnets too deliver good results so on so forth.what a wonderful way the harmony has been brought in by the sages.These implications have to be assed before we conclude any thing about the subject and nature of Astrology. > It soounded as if your clarifications are concluding half of the on going discussion.But the depth is so much there is lot to come and unravel.It all depends how we understand and share views.Views expressed in electonic form and media have their own difference of opinions to understand. > vrkrishnan > > --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:30 PM Sushma ji, > > If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is > predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and going > through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not > born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is only > ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of pawns > are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will allowed > to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused > of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they are > powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, > communist governments, dictators and their actions were all > predestined as DESTINY is supreme. > > That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide > behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what > being human is about, in my view. > > Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human has > free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can understandably > only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus predictable. > Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes > with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the > rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- > choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an > examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house > indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or bad > actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future > lifetimes. > > The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with > actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the > development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain > disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A > similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because ninth > is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the > capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and wisely > utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that > destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are > essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being to > shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. > > Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! > > RR > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but > > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which > we > > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or > > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he > cannot > > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - > education, > > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be > > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their > > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate > > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be > > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to > > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if > any > > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise > > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, > while > > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when > > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny > > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell > > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN > ONE " S > > DESTINY. > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > > bear with me if iam not on the track > > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me > > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could > understand > > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in > Psychology > > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow > who > > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But > > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of > significance > > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is > > destined. > > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > > Stewardship. Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every > thing > > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we > > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well > > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the > > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen > force? > > God. > > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so > > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have > contentment > > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and > > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put > in > > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try > to > > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to > > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in > > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > > emotional for that moment. > > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > > vrkrishnan > > > with regards > > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > > > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender > or > > at > > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making > those > > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > > something > > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes > and > > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > > misunderstand. > > > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > > experience! > > > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling > mountains, > > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and > exploring > > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact > I > > > am > > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few > people > > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > > Efforts. > > > I > > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever > > we > > > do > > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our > fate. > > > And > > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa > > had > > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > > Syaamantak > > > > Mani. > > > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > > sicknesses, > > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, > it > > > is > > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have > hundreds > > of > > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > > > else > > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without > my > > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > > point. " > > > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try > to > > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately > we > > > look > > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > > wnhich > > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, > because > > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and > only > > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > > accomplished > > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > > useful. " > > > I > > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human > nature, > > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still > the > > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that > is > > > > our problem > > > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if > someone > > > has > > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of > the > > > > place > > > > > in > > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > > change > > > > of > > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place > unless > > it > > > > is > > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable > disease. > > > Can > > > > > you > > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place > I > > > > > should > > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one > place, > > > but > > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > > place, > > > > I > > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between > fate > > > and > > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > > hearts > > > > and > > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and > > the > > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > > opinions > > > on > > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: > from > > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > > even > > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would > be > > > > just > > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys > > and > > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, > > one > > > is > > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save > all > > > the > > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT > > an > > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > > > even > > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Krishnan ji, After having followed jyotish online for a few decades and seeing the same questions and topics repeated over and over again (some responses the same, others innovative and a few out on a limb...) it can be safely stated that the situation is like in a armchair. Sometimes the armchair rocks a lot, furiously, but there is hardly any progress! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Sri Rohinida, > Iam sure the manner you have conveyed is absolutely the same as stated in the verses of sages.Further I feel that the status of planets to provide a lee way to human beings als get classified as mool trikone rasi,exalatation and debilatation depending occupation of signs.This might be the intention to bring in the element of free will as against predetermined wired context. > In bahvat bhavam too the good and bad houses undergoes transformation.Undoubtedly the dharma bhavas like 1,5 and have always precedence and even malefic palnets too deliver good results so on so forth.what a wonderful way the harmony has been brought in by the sages.These implications have to be assed before we conclude any thing about the subject and nature of Astrology. > It soounded as if your clarifications are concluding half of the on going discussion.But the depth is so much there is lot to come and unravel.It all depends how we understand and share views.Views expressed in electonic form and media have their own difference of opinions to understand. > vrkrishnan > > --- On Sun, 7/13/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:30 PM Sushma ji, > > If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is > predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and going > through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not > born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is only > ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of pawns > are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will allowed > to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused > of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they are > powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, > communist governments, dictators and their actions were all > predestined as DESTINY is supreme. > > That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide > behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what > being human is about, in my view. > > Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human has > free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can understandably > only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus predictable. > Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes > with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the > rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- > choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an > examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house > indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or bad > actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future > lifetimes. > > The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with > actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the > development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain > disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A > similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because ninth > is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the > capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and wisely > utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that > destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are > essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being to > shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. > > Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! > > RR > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but > > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which > we > > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or > > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he > cannot > > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - > education, > > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be > > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their > > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate > > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be > > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to > > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if > any > > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise > > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, > while > > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when > > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny > > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell > > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN > ONE " S > > DESTINY. > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > > bear with me if iam not on the track > > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me > > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could > understand > > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in > Psychology > > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow > who > > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But > > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of > significance > > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is > > destined. > > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > > Stewardship. Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every > thing > > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we > > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well > > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the > > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen > force? > > God. > > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so > > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have > contentment > > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and > > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put > in > > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try > to > > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to > > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in > > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > > emotional for that moment. > > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > > vrkrishnan > > > with regards > > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > > > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender > or > > at > > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making > those > > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > > something > > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes > and > > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > > misunderstand. > > > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > > experience! > > > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling > mountains, > > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and > exploring > > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact > I > > > am > > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few > people > > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > > Efforts. > > > I > > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever > > we > > > do > > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our > fate. > > > And > > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa > > had > > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > > Syaamantak > > > > Mani. > > > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > > sicknesses, > > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, > it > > > is > > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have > hundreds > > of > > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > > > else > > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without > my > > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > > point. " > > > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try > to > > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately > we > > > look > > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > > wnhich > > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, > because > > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and > only > > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > > accomplished > > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > > useful. " > > > I > > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human > nature, > > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still > the > > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that > is > > > > our problem > > > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if > someone > > > has > > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of > the > > > > place > > > > > in > > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > > change > > > > of > > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place > unless > > it > > > > is > > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable > disease. > > > Can > > > > > you > > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place > I > > > > > should > > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one > place, > > > but > > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > > place, > > > > I > > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between > fate > > > and > > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > > hearts > > > > and > > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and > > the > > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > > opinions > > > on > > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: > from > > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > > even > > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would > be > > > > just > > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys > > and > > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, > > one > > > is > > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save > all > > > the > > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT > > an > > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > > > even > > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, I think Yes, we are just helpless pawns of that Almighty; and truly we are living life like animals. How many people know that they have some areas in which they can improve their lives? More than 70% people who are labors, peasants, beggars, homeless, do not have the slightest idea of this Free Will. Say another 20% do not believe in astrology, so they do not have any source to know about those areas. Because, I think one has to know first about those areas in which he can apply his Free Will to differentiate from Destined areas. Say another 5% do not have the ability and means to find out about those areas. Say another 2% have no opportunity to make efforts in that direction. Now how many are left? So is it not true that most of us are the puppets in His hands? Yes, we are not to be blamed for what we are doing. It is He who is telling us to do all these things. Whatever was destined to happen in Mahaabhaarat, even Krishn could not stop it to happen. He could not stop Shishupaal to abuse Him so that he could live; He could not stop Yudhishthir to play dice game so that Duryodhan could not insult Draupadee; He could not stop MBH war in spite of all people's requests. Besides in MBH times, there were many people who were very educated, and intelligent, but nobody could do anything to stop the flow of the events the way they were happening although everybody was thinking in the same line. He could not stop the killing of Abhimanyu, rather He was preparing him for it. Since the time of the birth of Duryodhan, Vidur Ji told Dhritraashtra to kill Duryodhan because he was going to be the cause of the destruction of the whole Kul, but since he was born to destroy his whole Kul, Dhritraashtra did not listen to anybody even after his son's death. In Geetaa also Bhagavaan Krishn has said who think that " I do this " they are wrong, because I am the doer of everything, beings are only Nimitta (means) to do those things. I am not an astrologer, so I do not know about the characteristics of the various Houses of a chart, for example that there is a Free Will House in everybody's chart. In spite of all these ideas of mine, I agree with you that a man has come with some Destiny and some Free Will, but I am unable to find out those areas where I can work freely. As you said that there is a HOuse for that then can we know about those Free Will areas where that our Free Will will work. I mean in which areas we can apply our Free Will and improve ourselves? And if it can happen, I am very much interested to know about those areas so that I can improve this life for a better one in my next life, because other areas are my Destiny, I cannot change them. With regards Sushma , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Sushma ji, > > If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is > predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and going > through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not > born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is only > ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of pawns > are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will allowed > to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused > of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they are > powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, > communist governments, dictators and their actions were all > predestined as DESTINY is supreme. > > That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide > behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what > being human is about, in my view. > > Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human has > free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can understandably > only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus predictable. > Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes > with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the > rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- > choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an > examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house > indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or bad > actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future > lifetimes. > > The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with > actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the > development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain > disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A > similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because ninth > is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the > capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and wisely > utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that > destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are > essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being to > shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. > > Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! > > RR > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, but > > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which > we > > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly or > > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he > cannot > > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - > education, > > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot be > > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of their > > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to educate > > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not be > > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able to > > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if > any > > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, otherwise > > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, > while > > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, when > > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his Destiny > > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can tell > > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN > ONE " S > > DESTINY. > > With regards > > Sushma > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > > bear with me if iam not on the track > > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated me > > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could > understand > > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in > Psychology > > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow > who > > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential approach. > > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that time.But > > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of > significance > > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he is > > destined. > > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > > Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every > thing > > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time we > > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as well > > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame the > > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen > force? > > God. > > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and so > > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have > contentment > > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good and > > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and put > in > > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we try > to > > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers to > > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We in > > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > > emotional for that moment. > > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > > vrkrishnan > > > with regards > > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> > > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender > or > > at > > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making > those > > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > > something > > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes > and > > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > > misunderstand. > > > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in spiritual > > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), I > > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > > experience! > > > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling > mountains, > > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and > exploring > > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;-) > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In fact > I > > > am > > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few > people > > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > > Efforts. > > > I > > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. Whatever > > we > > > do > > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our > fate. > > > And > > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and Seetaa > > had > > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > > Syaamantak > > > > Mani. > > > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > > sicknesses, > > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is changed, > it > > > is > > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have > hundreds > > of > > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, something > > > else > > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without > my > > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > > point. " > > > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not try > to > > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately > we > > > look > > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > > wnhich > > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, > because > > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and > only > > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > > accomplished > > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those whose > > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > > useful. " > > > I > > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human > nature, > > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still > the > > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, that > is > > > > our problem > > > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if > someone > > > has > > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of > the > > > > place > > > > > in > > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > > change > > > > of > > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place > unless > > it > > > > is > > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable > disease. > > > Can > > > > > you > > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the place > I > > > > > should > > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one > place, > > > but > > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > > place, > > > > I > > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between > fate > > > and > > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > > hearts > > > > and > > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area of > > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma and > > the > > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > > opinions > > > on > > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: > from > > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > > even > > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications of > > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals would > be > > > > just > > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the ploys > > and > > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps remain, > > one > > > is > > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save > all > > > the > > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is NOT > > an > > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and not > > > even > > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I have not done the survey or seen one, so presuming that you have actually done that, I will not question your percentages etc :-) I felt that your judgment was a bit harsh on humanity in general in the first para or so. What you write in the last para or towards the end does make sense but destiny is the firm step (atal, will not move, will not slip under our foot). Without the foot which is destined to rest on the stable platform, how can the other floating foot move so that it can reach the next step (the movement creates karma and more destiny for future) and then that foot in the next janma takes on the role of resting stably on destined platform or step while the other foot makes a decision to move (free will) and the climb continues. I hope the thought sequence and analogy makes sense to you! If not, then you are wasting your time reading my rant! :-) RR , " bhagvatjee " <bhagvatjee wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, > I think Yes, we are just helpless pawns of that Almighty; and truly > we are living life like animals. How many people know that they have > some areas in which they can improve their lives? More than 70% > people who are labors, peasants, beggars, homeless, do not have the > slightest idea of this Free Will. Say another 20% do not believe in > astrology, so they do not have any source to know about those areas. > Because, I think one has to know first about those areas in which he > can apply his Free Will to differentiate from Destined areas. Say > another 5% do not have the ability and means to find out about those > areas. Say another 2% have no opportunity to make efforts in that > direction. Now how many are left? So is it not true that most of us > are the puppets in His hands? > > Yes, we are not to be blamed for what we are doing. It is He who is > telling us to do all these things. > > Whatever was destined to happen in Mahaabhaarat, even Krishn could > not stop it to happen. He could not stop Shishupaal to abuse Him so > that he could live; He could not stop Yudhishthir to play dice game > so that Duryodhan could not insult Draupadee; He could not stop MBH > war in spite of all people's requests. > > Besides in MBH times, there were many people who were very educated, > and intelligent, but nobody could do anything to stop the flow of the > events the way they were happening although everybody was thinking in > the same line. He could not stop the killing of Abhimanyu, rather He > was preparing him for it. > > Since the time of the birth of Duryodhan, Vidur Ji told Dhritraashtra > to kill Duryodhan because he was going to be the cause of the > destruction of the whole Kul, but since he was born to destroy his > whole Kul, Dhritraashtra did not listen to anybody even after his > son's death. > > In Geetaa also Bhagavaan Krishn has said who think that " I do this " > they are wrong, because I am the doer of everything, beings are only > Nimitta (means) to do those things. > > I am not an astrologer, so I do not know about the characteristics of > the various Houses of a chart, for example that there is a Free Will > House in everybody's chart. In spite of all these ideas of mine, I > agree with you that a man has come with some Destiny and some Free > Will, but I am unable to find out those areas where I can work > freely. As you said that there is a HOuse for that then can we know > about those Free Will areas where that our Free Will will work. I > mean in which areas we can apply our Free Will and improve ourselves? > And if it can happen, I am very much interested to know about those > areas so that I can improve this life for a better one in my next > life, because other areas are my Destiny, I cannot change them. > > With regards > Sushma > > , " Rohiniranjan " > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > Sushma ji, > > > > If the premise is that everything that happens to and by us is > > predestined, then what is the point of billions being born and > going > > through life as helpless pawns of someone's making! Why were we not > > born and lived lives as animals? What would the SOUL if there is > only > > ONE will gain through this cosmic experiment where billions of > pawns > > are let loose on planet earth? If there is no freedom of will > allowed > > to human beings then I submit that human beings are falsely accused > > of destroying the environment and creating pollution because they > are > > powerless pawns of destiny. By the same token, oppressive regimes, > > communist governments, dictators and their actions were all > > predestined as DESTINY is supreme. > > > > That would be ridiculous, would it not? One should not try to hide > > behind destiny and avoid one's responsibilities. That is not what > > being human is about, in my view. > > > > Now I agree that the counter-point would also exist that if human > has > > free-will then astrology has no purpose because it can > understandably > > only make sense if outcomes were predetermined and thus > predictable. > > Perhaps therein lies the key, my surmise is. Each human life comes > > with a certain amount of destiny which must be discharged and the > > rest is an area where one's discretion and free-will or potential- > > choice is possible. Simply stated, the ninth house allows for an > > examination of the 'destiny' component whereas the fifth house > > indicates the allotment of the choice, the potential for good or > bad > > actions that will create positive or negative karma for the future > > lifetimes. > > > > The fifth is the 3rd from 3rd (bhavat bhavam) hence deals with > > actions and creativity. Being the ninth from ninth is is fed by the > > development of the being so far hence the fifth does not remain > > disjointed from destiny or the level of growth of the individual. A > > similar connectivity can be seen in the other direction because > ninth > > is the bhavat bhavam of the fifth (fifth from fifth). One has the > > capability to build upon and utilize past growth and state and > wisely > > utilize that for future development. I hope it would be clear that > > destiny and freewill are not two disjointed factors but are > > essentially interrelated and ultimately allowing the carnate being > to > > shape up and learn from each experience of this earthly reality. > > > > Others may disagree, which is fine. To each his own reality ...! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > <bhagvatjee@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, and Krishnan Ji > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > The gist of my saying is this that people not only do anything, > but > > > they " cannot do " anything. It is all written in our Destiny which > > we > > > try to read through astrology (whether we can read it correctly > or > > > not this is another matter), BUT that is human nature that he > > cannot > > > sit idle inactively waiting to happen, he makes efforts to get > > > comforts, and more comforts, and more comforts and the list of > > > comforts goes on and on. There is nothing in his hands. > > > > > > As a human being he has some curiosities about his life - > > education, > > > earning money, marriage, children etc. These curiosities cannot > be > > > suppressed. Ask any parents if they can leave the ducation of > their > > > child on God? Never, they will continuously make effort to > educate > > > him. Even after the astrologer has said that this child will not > be > > > educated, they will not sit idle, and when he will not be able > to > > > study, they will think " Oh, that astrologer was right. " > > > > > > Here the purpose of astrology is only to know the things in one's > > > Destiny before hand. And if at all, if there is something written > > > about the remedies, doing those remedies to remove those sorrows. > > > Rest, whatever has to happen, will happen in the same way. So if > > any > > > astrologer can read the chart correctly, only he is good, > otherwise > > > there are many who tell many kinds of things - some come true, > > while > > > others not. When they come true, we appreciate the astrologer, > when > > > they do not come true, we say he is not good. > > > > > > So one should take the astrology as just to know about his > Destiny > > > and do remedied, if there is any, because only astrologer can > tell > > > this to him. BUT BE SURE NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING WHATEVER IS IN > > ONE " S > > > DESTINY. > > > With regards > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > , vattem krishnan > > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Rohinida, > > > > Please apologise for my intrusion into the discussions and also > > > bear with me if iam not on the track > > > > The depth of the topic and the ongoing discussions fascinated > me > > > very much to reflect back� and to find what is it I could > > understand > > > through my study of Astrology under the able guidance of > > > eminenent�persons of ICAS like Shri B.V.Raman,Shri K.N.Rao, > > > and��Justice Kapoor,and ofcourse my postgraduate study in > > Psychology > > > > We have ofcourse great Psychologist who explored human needs by > > > experimenting through a dog and tried to understand .Also Maslow > > who > > > classified needs in a heirarchy.Today we have existential > approach. > > > > My father used to advise in his saintly way that " what ever you > > > have to get you will get whether you walk or run or jump " . > > > > Some who that advice could not fit inti my frame at that > time.But > > > then when I got to psychology one renowned psychologist addressed > > > that every humanbeing is a scientist and he keeps exploring and > > > resolving the problems every day.This still beholds me so much. > > > > In Astrology and in our Spirtual approaches� lot of > > significance > > > is attached to mind and body.The inter relationships focus very > > > prominently how helpless every human being is as he gets what he > is > > > destined. > > > > In our epic Mahabharat,Lord Krishna tried to console Arjun in > > > philosophical way to make him to proceed futhrt under His > > > Stewardship.Lord came forward to take responsibility for Every > > thing > > > in the Univesr as the only Doer. > > > > No doubt such an approach also provides security for thos who > > > believe and keep faith in our spirtual approach.At the same time > we > > > also run here and there(say around 30-40%) to initiate and do, > > > seeking result as per our wish.This process makes us elated as > well > > > as sorrowful based on the result achieved.At this point either we > > > despise ourselves as we have not got what we deserve and blame > the > > > unknown as our endeavours are not ably supported by the Unseen > > force? > > > God. > > > > These facts are concurrent making us more confused.To get > > > reconciled and understand the ways of Nature is very complex and > so > > > it is better we analyse and understand spirtually to have > > contentment > > > irrespective of good,bad etc. > > > > This ofcourse in human cycle comes up only after several good > and > > > bad experiences and gets tired as the age is advancing.Say and > put > > in > > > psychological terms after " midlife crisis " .In the mean term we > try > > to > > > see issues from Astrological ways also as future looks to be > > > uncertain always.we donot prefer to remain quiet as our answers > to > > > prayers to God are also not seen and believed. > > > > Humanbeings remain always at cross roads and find themselves > > > indecisive mostly.Almighty certainly is there in Driver seat.We > in > > > the back seat only understand what we see as they appear and feel > > > emotional for that moment. > > > > Are we sure about our apparoaches and where we feel the end? > > > > vrkrishnan > > > > with regards > > > > --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> > > > > Re: importance of birthplace in chart > > > > > > > > Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe that the TAO philosophy is kind of based on surrender > > or > > > at > > > > least letting things happen rather than jumping in and making > > those > > > > happen (which would be the mindset of those who need to do > > > something > > > > to remedy the current situation). Out of desperation oftentimes > > and > > > > my heart goes out to them for their agony, please do not > > > > misunderstand. > > > > > > > > The only reason we have all the different religions, cultures, > > > > societies, scriptures, guidebooks, approaches (even in > spiritual > > > > realm which should have been more uniform, one would imagine!), > I > > > > think is because that is the essence of human nature and human > > > > experience! > > > > > > > > We were programmed and hard-wired to be explorers, finders and > > > > seekers! While some do their exploring out there scaling > > mountains, > > > > skies, oceans, others explore within! > > > > > > > > ULTIMATELY, in the final analysis we all are seeking and > > exploring > > > > and NONE of us have ARRIVED! Despite claims to the contrary ;- ) > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > <bhagvatjee@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji > > > > > Thanks for stepping in such a controversial discussion. In > fact > > I > > > > am > > > > > very happy to have this communication with you. Only a few > > people > > > > > understand such things that Destiny is more powerful than > > > Efforts. > > > > I > > > > > am Geetaa's follower. Krishn Bhagavaan says that " Without my > > > > > permission even a leaf does not shake. " This is right. > Whatever > > > we > > > > do > > > > > we don't get the desired result UNLESS it is written in our > > fate. > > > > And > > > > > nobody can fight with Fate, not even Bhagavaan. Raam and > Seetaa > > > had > > > > > to go Vanvaas for 14 years, Krishn was accused of stealing > > > > Syaamantak > > > > > Mani. > > > > > > > > > > Our everything - happenings of our life, our nature, our > > > > sicknesses, > > > > > our pleasures - all are fixed. If at all something is > changed, > > it > > > > is > > > > > because of our Fate, not because of our Efforts. I have > > hundreds > > > of > > > > > examples from my own life that " I wish for something, > something > > > > else > > > > > happens " OR " Whatever I have never dreamt, it happens without > > my > > > > > knowledge - it is just a flow of event which take me to that > > > > point. " > > > > > > > > > > BUT this human nature is that when we are happy, we do not > try > > to > > > > > find out what is causing this; BUT if we are sad, immediately > > we > > > > look > > > > > toward our charts as why we are sad, what is making us sad, > > > wnhich > > > > > Graha are causing this to us? > > > > > > > > > > And, you know, sometimes there is a reason for this also, > > because > > > > > only the chart can tell us what is writen in our future and > > only > > > > > astrologers can read this. I believe in this philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > You have heard 100% correctly " I have even heard some > > > accomplished > > > > > scholars pronounce that even remedies only work for those > whose > > > > > charts have indications of remedies becoming effective and > > > useful. " > > > > I > > > > > also believe this, but you know, making efforts is human > > nature, > > > > > human Dharm and Karm. He cannot live without that - BUT still > > the > > > > > same happens what HE wishes. WE do not want to surrender, > that > > is > > > > > our problem > > > > > > > > > > In fact that is what I was looking for in this Group, if > > someone > > > > has > > > > > this ideaology and is following it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Rohiniranjan " > > > > > <rohini_ranjan@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > , " bhagvatjee " > > > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit Ji > > > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > > I have been following your thread about th importance of > > the > > > > > place > > > > > > in > > > > > > > one's life. You are right, one's things are changed with > > > change > > > > > of > > > > > > > place. BUT in my opinion, one cannot change his place > > unless > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > > written in his chart. I am very sick with incurable > > disease. > > > > Can > > > > > > you > > > > > > > accept the challenge to treat me by suggesting me the > place > > I > > > > > > should > > > > > > > go? It is not easy. I have been trying to stay at one > > place, > > > > but > > > > > > > cannot stay at one place; I am trying to go far from this > > > > place, > > > > > I > > > > > > > cannot move a bit. It is not in our hands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are yours and other's views about this? > > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sushma, > > > > > > > > > > > > You have raised a very valid point in this debate between > > fate > > > > and > > > > > > free-will, destiny vs choice that has been going on in the > > > hearts > > > > > and > > > > > > minds of and between those who are interested in this area > of > > > > > > divination, jyotish, karma, bhagya, bhavitavvya and karma > and > > > the > > > > > > other goodies that we all love to discuss and pronounce > > > opinions > > > > on > > > > > > and which sadly become poison for those who are suffering: > > from > > > > > > diseases, financial and other troubles. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have even heard some accomplished scholars pronounce that > > > even > > > > > > remedies only work for those whose charts have indications > of > > > > > > remedies becoming effective and useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > If indeed that is true, then going through the rituals > would > > be > > > > > just > > > > > > dancing the dance, would it not? Perhaps after all the > ploys > > > and > > > > > > politics are done and no more drama or dancing steps > remain, > > > one > > > > is > > > > > > left with just one action: SURRENDER! > > > > > > > > > > > > If that is true, why not do that as the first step and save > > all > > > > the > > > > > > misery and anguish and so on? Please realize that this is > NOT > > > an > > > > > > opinion, or judgment but simply a Rhetorical Question and > not > > > > even > > > > > > directed at you specifically. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > May you find peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I think you are right, as I have said, but maybe I have collect some more information about how one can improve his life for his next life, otherwise this discussion is going to end. Anyways thanks for clearing my thoughts With bets wishes Sushma , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > I have not done the survey or seen one, so presuming that you have > actually done that, I will not question your percentages etc :-) > I felt that your judgment was a bit harsh on humanity in general in > the first para or so. What you write in the last para or towards the > end does make sense but destiny is the firm step (atal, will not > move, will not slip under our foot). Without the foot which is > destined to rest on the stable platform, how can the other floating > foot move so that it can reach the next step (the movement creates > karma and more destiny for future) and then that foot in the next > janma takes on the role of resting stably on destined platform or > step while the other foot makes a decision to move (free will) and > the climb continues. > > I hope the thought sequence and analogy makes sense to you! If not, > then you are wasting your time reading my rant! :-) > > RR > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Shri Bhagavat jee, Progression of life and improving the course through the cycle of births definetely what all intend to achieve and what we have done and how karma reflects for good and bad of the life of the person.Also how actions benifit others.The objective will be clear only when is in thoughts and actions. Secondly these karmas or intents to do by way of action need no doubt blessings of the Supernatural force.The one who carry out with the pharse of 'Hari Om Tatsat " and ascribes his actions and result to the Almighty creates space for himself some free will. Destiny that is the chart to progress will also ceratinly elevate him step by step.Sequentially one finds his steps r on firm hold.This guidance or the intent is of none else than the force of God. vrkrishnan --- On Wed, 7/16/08, bhagvatjee <bhagvatjee wrote: bhagvatjee <bhagvatjee Re: importance of birthplace in chart Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:05 AM I think you are right, as I have said, but maybe I have collect some more information about how one can improve his life for his next life, otherwise this discussion is going to end. Anyways thanks for clearing my thoughts With bets wishes Sushma , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@ ...> wrote: > > I have not done the survey or seen one, so presuming that you have > actually done that, I will not question your percentages etc :-) > I felt that your judgment was a bit harsh on humanity in general in > the first para or so. What you write in the last para or towards the > end does make sense but destiny is the firm step (atal, will not > move, will not slip under our foot). Without the foot which is > destined to rest on the stable platform, how can the other floating > foot move so that it can reach the next step (the movement creates > karma and more destiny for future) and then that foot in the next > janma takes on the role of resting stably on destined platform or > step while the other foot makes a decision to move (free will) and > the climb continues. > > I hope the thought sequence and analogy makes sense to you! If not, > then you are wasting your time reading my rant! :-) > > RR > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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